Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 100: Lindsey Hein

March 28, 2025

Here's a link to listen to this week's episode.

Guest: Lindsey Hein @lindseyhein626

Show Notes:

Lindsey Hein⁠ joins me for the ONE HUNDREDTH episode of Finish Lines & Milestones. She is the reason this podcast exists. I've been inspired by Lindsey since she started her running podcast, I'll Have Another with Lindsey Hein, nearly nine years ago.

During this episode, sponsored by ⁠Pure Fuel ⁠and ⁠Previnex⁠, we talked about:

The god wink of her speaking at ⁠Linking Indy Women ⁠exactly 7 years before this episode aired
Our Indy Mini event coming up on 5/2 at The Bottleworks Hotel
How she’s from Indianapolis (well, Bloomington) and has been a runner since she was 15
Celebrating milestones in her podcast
Her husband, Glenn, and the story of how they met
How she started running
Choosing San Diego as her first marathon and running a BQ
Her first Boston Marathon and why it was such a tough race
The journey to becoming a mom of four boys and running three marathons within a year after having her first son
The secret to running her fastest marathon in the midst of chaos (spoiler: letting the pressure go)
Starting the ⁠I’ll Have Another with Lindsey Hein⁠ podcast nearly NINE years ago
The two times she’s run the New York City Marathon
Why she’s not interested in going after the 50 states
Her health anxieties and preventative surgeries related to breast and ovarian cancers
The work she does for the ⁠Donna Foundation⁠ and their February race each year
NEVER HAVE I EVER RUNNING EDITION!

⁠Get tickets to our live show before the Indy Mini on 5/2 before they'e gone!

Show Transcript:

0:00

This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast that celebrates the everyday runner.

0:10

I'm your host, Allie Brettnacker.

If you run, you are a runner and every runner has a story.

0:16

Join me each week as I share these stories and we cross finish lines and celebrate milestones

together.

0:23

This episode is brought to you by Organic Pure Fuel.

Organic Pure Fuel is made by Anderson's Maple Syrup and it is just that, pure, organic Maple syrup.

0:35

And I know it seems maybe a little strange, but it is my most favorite running fuel.

I just got back from Vegas and I used it during my half.

0:44

I had three packets.

I do it about every 4 miles.

0:47

And you know what, I wish I would have brought in four packets so that I could have also used it on

my waffles the morning of the race because I had these incredible waffles.

0:57

And their tagline is from Waffles to workouts because it's the same exact Maple syrup that you can

use on your waffles, oatmeal, coffee, whatever.

1:07

And I also love the fact that it has everything that you want in a fuel, the carbs, etcetera.

But it also has antioxidants and electrolytes, which is an added bonus.

1:18

It goes down really easy because it's pretty liquidy and it's also easy on my stomach.

And if you want to try it, which you 100% should, they sell 10 packs and 24 packs on their website.

1:30

If you go to andersonsmaplesyrup.com and then click shop at the top and pure fuel, you can use code

fuel 20 at checkout to save 20% off your order.

1:39

And they also have the 24 packs available on Amazon.

Anderson's Maple syrup is also available in stores nationwide.

1:46

So if you look in the syrup aisle, you're likely to find some Anderson's there as well.

When you support this company, you also are supporting the reservation of acres of hardwood forests

1:57

across the Midwest.

Thank you so much to Anderson's for supporting this podcast.

2:03

Hello, and welcome to episode 100.

This is Ali.

2:07

And I decided it would be brilliant to learn a new podcast editing tool for my 100th episode so that

I could have video.

2:16

So for the 10 of you who might see this video somewhere, here it is.

I really want to take this podcast to the next level, but it is really hard work.

2:27

And so bear with me as I do that.

But welcome to the 100th episode.

2:31

I cannot believe that it's been 100 episodes.

It has flown by because I'm having so much fun.

2:38

So thank you to everybody who has listened, whether this is your first time, your 100th time.

Thank you, mother.

2:45

I just can't do it without you.

So thank you so much for listening and I'm so excited because this week I have Lindsay Hein as my

2:54

guest and I've been listening to Lindsay's podcast.

I'll have another with Lindsay Hein forever.

3:00

She has almost been doing it for 9 years now.

And we're planning a big event the evening before, the Indianapolis Indy Mini, which is 1/2 marathon

3:10

and 5K it part of it, part of the half marathon runs around the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

And the night before we're hosting a live podcast at the Bottleworks Hotel in downtown Indianapolis.

0:00

And we've sold over half of the tickets at the time of this recording, which is Thursday, March

3:27

20th.

And there's only 100 tickets.

3:30

So if you're listening to this close to when it comes out, just know that you better go get a ticket

'cause we're going to sell this event out.

3:37

So if you're thinking about it, go do it.

We have a big giveaway that we're going to announce on Monday, March 24th, so go make sure that

3:44

you're a part of that as well.

And I wanted to give a special thank you to my best friend Alyssa, who I don't know if she still

3:52

listens.

She was never a podcast person and definitely listened to early episodes.

3:58

But if you're listening to this, Alyssa, I love you so much.

She sent me my favorite flowers, tulips, these gorgeous tulips to celebrate my 100th episode.

4:07

So thank you so much friend, for supporting me and cheering me on.

And thanks to my mom and dad who always listen, even my mom who's not a runner anymore but used to

4:16

be, and my husband who doesn't listen but makes this possible.

So it's been so fun.

4:22

All right, now for this week I had Lindsay Hyne and to me, she's like a celebrity.

I can't believe I have the opportunity to be working with Lindsay, with Sandy Boy Productions, her

4:32

podcast network.

It's brought a lot of opportunities for me to have sponsors for this podcast and again, for us to do

4:38

this really awesome event coming up on May 2nd and hopefully other events throughout the year and in

years to come.

4:45

Who knows?

But I'm really energized and excited by it.

4:48

And Lindsay has been running since she was 15, so we really go through her whole journey, have a lot

of content.

4:56

She's run 17 marathons.

She's a mom of four boys.

4:59

She is from Indiana but now lives in Raleigh, NC.

And at the end of this episode, we play a fun game, the Never have I ever runners version.

5:10

So stick around for that and stick around for the future of finish lines and milestones.

Again, so glad you're here.

5:18

And if you do enjoy this podcast, please rate, review, share.

That's how more people find this show and apparently through video too.

5:27

So here you go.

I hope you enjoy this episode with the one and only Lindsay Hyne.

5:33

Oh, my gosh.

Lindsay Hein is on my podcast.

5:37

This is a Dream.

Am I dreaming?

5:39

I know you're going to laugh at that.

Yeah.

5:41

I can't believe that this is episode 100.

I never imagined making it this far.

5:49

And then I was telling you this, but I can't believe that you spoke for Linking Indie Women, this

women's organization that I used to run in indie on March 21st, 7 years exactly before this episode

6:05

is coming out on March 21st this year.

It's just so weird and I believe in weird stuff like that.

6:11

I just feel like that's a little God wink.

Yes, and I was like pregnant that at that event and just seems like a totally different phase of

6:22

life honestly.

Yeah, which kid were you pregnant with then?

6:25

My last, my 4th?

Yep, it was cuz he's about, he's 6, so he'll be seven this summer.

6:33

And it was the first time I like wrote a speech and learned how to really put together a talk public

speaking wise.

6:41

Yeah, that was a really cool experience for me.

Yeah, which is so wild to think about.

6:46

I was only 2 1/2 years into my pocket.

I was like really, truly pretty early, early days.

6:53

Yeah, it was.

And I feel like for me, though I had been listening to your podcasts from the very beginning, I felt

7:00

like I can remember the first time.

I thought this was the first time that I met you anyway, in my head at like Indie Women's Expo, you

7:09

had a booth there or like a little tent.

And I remember being so nervous and going up to you and introducing myself.

7:15

Yes.

I so I don't think we knew each other before that because I in my mind and still in my mind, you're

7:20

like this local running celebrity to me.

And now, now you're just just national running celebrity.

7:26

I know you don't feel that way, but it's literally it's like, who haven't you interviewed?

I knew who you were before then because you fundraised for Back on My Feet.

7:37

Did I?

You did something.

7:40

Yeah, I I did something in the early days of back on my feet.

You did something with back on my feet and I so I knew you were because I was like very much like in

7:50

back on my feet stuff.

I was very anybody who like donated or volunteered or fundraised, like I knew your name for sure.

7:59

And that's how I feel right now about everybody who's registered for our event for the Indie mini.

Yes.

8:04

I'm like sending texts to people who registered that I know, or messages to be like, thank you so

much.

8:09

So just know everybody, if you haven't registered yet, we know that you haven't registered.

Yeah, they'll get it together before.

8:14

There's no tickets.

So I'm pretty excited.

8:17

We've sold 38 tickets in less than 24 hours and we only.

I'm actually worried because I'm like, we have 100 for people to get, but then we also have our

8:27

sponsors to fit in the room and I'm just like, OK, it's going to be the best, yeah.

I am definitely not a rule follower, so I am the person that will be like we can survive.

8:38

More come on and register at the door.

Yeah.

8:42

Think that I might be a frustrating person to work with in that regard because I do not follow the

rules.

8:48

I'm the exact opposite, which is why I think in in some ways we work together well because I am like

the.

8:53

That's perfect.

Rule follower first born like through and through like.

8:58

I am always following the rules you.

No, ally, you beg for forgiveness, you do the thing and then.

9:05

You beg for me, anxiety.

You can at least get away with it once.

9:08

Yeah, you know what I mean.

Yeah, I guess.

9:11

And runners are usually like, look, if there's no seats left, sit on the floor, you'll be fine.

That's that is really true.

9:18

Yeah.

So it's going to be a blast.

9:19

For anybody who doesn't know, it's the night before the Indie Mini on May 2nd.

And if you don't know what the Indy Mini is, if you're not local, you gotta come in town for it

9:29

sometime.

We it runs around the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, which is where the Indy 500 is, and it's just

9:35

iconic, as I think we've mentioned before.

Yeah, it's a rite of passage.

9:39

If you live in Indy or think you have any kind of association with Indy, you have to have done this

race.

9:45

I got it really excited because one of the people who have bought tickets, because we again are

stocking the list, Diane from New York, She said, oh, I'm coming in from New York.

9:55

I've never done this race.

And I started telling her about how cool the entertainment is on course and then just how cool it is

10:02

to run on the iconic Indy 500 track.

And I'm like, oh, I'm really proud of this race.

10:09

I'm really proud to be from Indianapolis.

And like the on course entertainment, I will say, is very Indiana.

10:16

And I think there's something really special about it.

Like you have old ladies claws.

10:21

Oh yeah, they are the best at 1:00.

Point the best, you have 12 year old kids in like punk rock bands on the course.

10:30

Like it is just And then of course there's like lots of church bands along the course as well.

I just feel like it's really cool and I don't know that you could sell me on a better half.

10:41

It's the perfect half.

I've done it.

10:43

This will be my 17th time which is wild to me.

Yeah, it's a lot.

10:47

Yeah, it's it's if you're a runner in Indy and I feel like back in the day, people would be like if

they got into running, they'd be like, I don't do the mini.

10:55

It's too crap.

I'm like don't be.

10:57

So don't be elitist.

Don't.

10:58

Be I don't really try to go fast at them any because there are a lot of people and we have so many

great races in the indie area that it's just a fun, just such a fun vibe and experience to be a part

11:11

of.

Yeah, I'd go for the party for over the time, but if you do want to run a fast time, just try to get

11:16

in.

Right.

11:16

Get in the fast corral and you can fly.

Good luck.

11:18

That's right.

So I'm sad that you're not going to actually run the mini, but you will be announcing at the 5K.

11:24

You still might.

Don't get my hopes up.

11:26

Yeah, I don't know which one it is.

Yeah, I'm either going to run the race and document it, document kissing the bricks and all that,

11:34

the track, or they said that they might need me to do 5K announcing.

I said I will do whatever you need me to do.

11:41

I want you to run with Ainsley's Angels with our group.

So listen, if you're listening guys come to our event, that's what we're saying.

11:48

It's going to be special and fun.

We have amazing goodie bags and I just think it's going to be a really cool like tight knit

11:56

intimate.

I agree.

11:57

And I really want this to be something we can do as a tradition year over year and perhaps before

the monumental marathon in November.

12:06

So it's just really, I'm so energized by it.

I know you are, too.

12:09

And I just love texting back and forth and being like, Oh my gosh, we're up to this many tickets

already.

12:14

And it's just, it's really encouraging.

And it's going to be so much fun and the perfect way to kick off that weekend, too, I feel like.

12:20

Yeah.

And shout out to Bottle Works because that is where the event is and Ally and I will be staying

12:26

there that weekend.

It's going to be it's just like a such a cool spot Yeah, on Mass Ave. right there.

12:32

And like just so many cool things in the area.

So we're.

12:35

Super, yeah, they are now a Michelin key.

So Michelin key is to a hotel what a Michelin star is to a restaurant.

12:43

So they are a Michelin key hotel.

I think that was last year that they got that award, which is so cool.

12:51

So that just goes to tell you how like we're talking top tier here.

If you're coming in town, that's where you need to be.

12:59

So for people who may be like, oh, who is Lindsay Hyne and why is she coming to the Mini and what's

going on?

13:07

Could you just give people a quick rundown of who you are?

Yeah, I'm coming to the Mini because I love Indy and I'm from Bloomington IN and then I went to IU

13:18

and moved up to Indianapolis like first job out of college.

So I lived in Indy for a very long time, moved to Raleigh, NC in 2021.

13:27

So I still very much say I'm from Indianapolis.

Am I from Indianapolis or Bloomington though?

13:34

Because you're you grew up in Indy and you still live?

In I grew up in Westfield, I grew up in the suburbs of Indy.

13:40

And for anybody outside of Indiana, I just say Indianapolis because nobody knows the difference.

Almost same with Bloomington.

13:46

Bloomington people will know because of Indiana University IU.

Yeah, I don't think it matters, Indiana.

13:52

Do people know?

I wonder though, whenever I say that I'm like, I always just say I'm from Indianapolis, but if I say

13:57

I'm from Bloomington, IN do.

People.

14:00

Probably not.

What that is, I usually say where I is, but yeah, I am a runner.

14:06

I've been a runner since I was like 15 and I've run 17 marathons and I have four boys.

I launched my running podcast, I'll Have Another with Lindsay Hein in 2016 and have just been

14:24

immersed in like the running industry and culture ever since.

And what episode?

14:28

What is it?

You're almost, you're getting close to 600 episodes, Yeah.

14:33

I don't know.

I think it's 580 or 590.

14:37

I'm not even sure actually.

But yeah, I put it.

14:40

I've been putting an episode out every week since 2016.

And then I've been doing like series as well. 597, Whoa, I was 97.

14:53

I just like Oh my.

Gosh, you're really close.

14:56

You should.

Wait, what am I?

14:57

What are you going to do Do.

Something.

15:00

You got to celebrate it.

I ended up on your podcast at 500 by accident, although now it's.

15:05

Oh, you are my 500th episode.

See, I'll go for the Indy 500 in Indianapolis.

15:11

There we go.

But yeah.

15:13

I remember when I did, when I hit 2550 and 100, I made a big deal about it.

And then I just would never think about it in time.

15:25

I've noticed the past few years like never done anything for like my anniversary of starting the

podcast which is coming up in 3 or 4 weeks.

15:35

OK, yeah, mine it'll.

Be 9 years.

15:37

Wow.

Yeah, mine is in April at some point.

15:40

I do remember when I had my 100th episode so I had Maggie Dials interview me and my husband did

write me a card and the kids got me cupcakes that said like 100 episodes.

15:55

The Internet says that only like less than 5% of podcasts make it to 100 episodes, so I can only

imagine how many make it to six. 100 That's why I always like when people are like, I want to start

16:08

a podcast and or like talk about joining the network and stuff.

I'm like so many people start podcast and quit.

16:14

So yeah, it's because you just, it's a grind if you're not doing it for like your full time job or

whatever.

16:21

And I think people, myself included, like I get discouraged by numbers, right?

And it just doesn't come.

16:28

Totally.

Like you can't just put your podcast out there and expect to have like thousands of people listen to

16:32

it, which makes sense, but I think people just assume it's not that hard.

I just get a microphone and start interviewing people and it takes a lot more than that to get it

16:42

going.

It's super hard to grow a podcast unless you're like already a famous or well known name.

16:48

So yeah, props to anybody who's out there.

Doing it in a way doing it props to us.

16:53

Doing it?

Yep, we're doing it.

16:56

And how old are your boys right now?

They're 6810 and 12, so they're in that place where they're all a nice.

17:05

Yeah, wow.

Yeah, yeah.

17:08

We're not always that.

So we're kinder, 2nd, 4th and 6th grade.

17:11

It's really good right now.

They fight a lot, but like in general, I'm like, this is good.

17:16

Yeah, this is they're all at school all day.

And yeah, it's a cool season.

17:22

I look forward to some of that when they're just a little bit more self-sufficient, like we're

getting close.

17:27

And I am like super free rangy.

So I feel like my kids became self-sufficient maybe earlier.

17:34

Than they needed to be.

Yeah, that's OK.

17:37

It is.

So yeah, like my, we live a half a mile from the school and like, my second grader just leaves in

17:44

the morning, Bye.

And just walks, walks out the door, doesn't walk with anybody, doesn't want me to walk with him,

17:50

just wants to be alone and walk to school and.

Yeah, yeah.

17:54

I've got some independent things that maybe that's one parenting thing.

I'm you.

17:57

Should be sometimes the things my kids feel like they need me to help with.

I'm like where did I go wrong?

18:03

Like how can you not do this?

Well, I need that too.

18:06

Yeah.

That too I'm like you do not need to ask me for water you can get.

18:10

Your own water?

Yeah, No, that's an example.

18:12

And you and Glenn have been married for how long?

16 years. 16.

18:18

Yeah, I know.

And that's crazy.

18:20

I feel like when you get a 20, you're like, wow.

I'm like there's no other way to say it, but I'm.

18:24

Old yeah, we're getting there, but I love the story.

So I was just listening in preparation for this to an episode of Ali on the run that you were on.

18:35

Dude, it was so long ago and it was so fun to listen to, so I encourage anybody to go listen to it.

It's so good.

18:41

Episode 37 and now she's on like almost 800 so.

I think I was on her show twice.

18:47

It must have been the.

First time, it was the first time I started listening to the most recent time you're on.

18:51

And then it she was like, she was on before.

I'm like, I'm going to go listen to the really old one because that's going to be fun.

18:55

I actually remember recording that sitting on the floor in my bedroom in my house in Indianapolis,

hiding for my kids.

19:03

Yeah.

And then the hearing you talk about and we might have another kid because you only had three boys at

19:08

the time.

My.

19:10

Gosh, that's so funny.

I actually just interviewed her for my podcast because I'm doing a series on running podcasters.

19:17

OK, Yeah.

It's recorded but it's not out.

19:19

OK.

Cool, we'll all be interested to hear that episode.

19:22

It's so crazy talking about now that she's been through her cancer diagnosis.

Like all that stuff is really interesting to talk about, which you and I will talk about today at

19:30

some point too.

But yeah, it's just wild to go back in time knowing what now.

19:36

I remember in that conversation cuz she was asking me about the BRCA gene that I have and she was

like, yeah, I don't have any breast cancer in my family and yeah, so this.

19:45

Is wild so we'll talk about that, but I all that's to say that I just love the story of how you and

Glenn met and so I just want people to hear that because it's I think it's the best.

19:56

Please share so people who went to IU will love it even more.

I know I'm like, how should I tell the story?

20:02

We worked at the Village Deli in Bloomington and I was a server and he was a kitchen guy.

I remember the first time I knew who he was, his parents came and they were eating at the Village

20:18

Deli.

I came back to the kitchen and I was like, who's Glenn?

20:22

And my best friend Emily, who I worked with, was like, he's the guy on the toast.

And I was like, hey, Glenn, your parents are out here eating breakfast.

20:31

And then I remember thinking like, oh, he must be normal.

His parents seem really normal because like a lot of kitchen guys at the Village Deli, I feel like

20:43

they were like a lot of stoners and.

Townies like people who like were.

20:47

In.

School.

20:48

I guess you're a townies.

Yeah, I think I maybe questioned their ambition a little bit.

20:56

That was so judgy of me.

From the girl whose dad helped her get the job at the village Deli.

21:01

That's funny.

Like he knew someone who knew the owner and I just, like, really needed a job.

21:06

So yeah, maybe I should check my ambition there.

But anyway, yeah, so but he always tells me there was like, a couple months later, there was like a

21:19

party or something that someone at the maybe we were having people over to our house.

I was like 20 and he said he was washing dishes and he didn't get invited and he was like offended

21:30

by it.

He was like.

21:31

So sad.

Why didn't I get the MO?

21:34

And I tried to break up with him, I don't know, a month into dating or hanging out or whatever.

And he was like, no, he was like, why?

21:42

I was like, I don't know.

I just thought this was going to be like a summer thing.

21:47

I didn't think we were going to be serious here.

And he basically was like, you don't have a good reason.

21:54

Yeah, sorry I vetoed your breakup.

I veto your breakup.

21:59

I just brag on him a little bit here though because I don't know if I told this story on her show or

where I've told this story, but he was just always so super like confident in himself.

22:11

And I remember I had an ex-boyfriend that was like wanting to get back together.

And so I told him about it.

22:19

And I had been single for a year, but this ex-boyfriend had came back around.

He was trying to get back together.

22:26

And I told Glenn about it.

And he I said, he really wants to go to dinner and talk about things.

22:31

And this was like, we had probably been dating for, I don't know, five or six weeks or something.

And he was like, you should go, he was like, you should go talk to him.

22:39

And I was like, oh, you won't be mad if I like go to dinner with my ex-boyfriend.

And he's like, no, I think you should go talk to him.

22:46

And so I did and we had dinner and it was fine.

And he's a nice guy.

22:52

He's married with a few kids now and that's all fine.

But I think I, I came home from about, Oh my gosh, how nice is it to be dating someone who has no

23:02

jealousy issue.

And it's just like totally fine and like confident, Hey, if it's meant to work out, it'll work out

23:09

and you should go entertain that conversation.

And so I think that's what sold me on him.

23:14

And being like, no, you're not breaking up with me, you're mine.

Sorry, he's so great.

23:20

He was like, I think I need some better reasons.

That's really funny.

23:23

And you're like, huh, I guess I don't have any.

You're right.

23:27

I guess we're still together.

Yeah.

23:29

I think that's just so cute.

And why did you end up going to college where you're from?

23:34

Why'd you pick IU?

Oh, I just didn't have good grades and I didn't have a lot of choices.

23:41

And yeah, it was just like, I think if I could have got in or when it went to a school, I'm sure IU

is like so much harder to get into now.

23:50

I just, I've never got good grades ever.

And I don't know that I would have done very well far away from home honestly, but still needy with

23:57

my parents.

And you didn't run collegiately, did you?

24:00

You run in high or did you run in high school?

Like where did your running?

24:05

I ran for Bloomington, N OK.

Yeah.

24:08

My best friend Sarah invited me to join the cross country team my sophomore year of high school.

I had done track very casually my freshman year in middle school.

24:18

I did every sport.

I did diving and gymnastics and track and cheerleading.

24:24

Like anything that was available, I was like, sign me up.

Yeah.

24:29

Yeah, my friend Sarah invited me to join the cross country team and I did, and I cried the night

before our first meet.

24:38

I was so scared.

It was an intramural meet too.

24:41

It was just like our team.

And I cried.

24:43

Oh.

Boy, yeah.

24:46

'Cause I wanted to be on varsity, but I didn't know if I had it in me.

And I was just like, not in a good headspace, but yeah.

24:53

So I I ran cross country and then I didn't.

I just ran in college to stay in shape.

25:00

And then Glenn and I ran our first marathon in 2008, two months before we got.

Paid and which?

25:07

What year did you graduate from?

IU 2006.

25:11

OK, sorry I cut you.

Off fresh at two years, two years out of college.

25:18

So that's where I guess it.

All that all began before we go down that rabbit hole of your running journey to 17 marathons, which

25:28

is nuts.

Where do you fall within your sisters?

25:32

Remind me I'm in the mid middle and Erica is the oldest.

Yeah, my older sister's two years older, and then my younger sister is three years old.

25:41

Younger.

OK.

25:41

And what's your youngest sister's name?

Shelby.

25:45

OK, I don't think I've ever met Shelby, but I've met Erica.

Shelby Lynn.

25:48

Shelby Lynn?

Yeah.

25:50

Shelby Lynn.

She lives in Bloomington so.

25:52

OK, I feel like middle child.

That helps.

25:54

No wonder you're not a rule follower.

Second born.

25:57

Oh my God, yeah.

Yeah, no rule following here.

26:03

So, first marathon in 2008 and it was San Diego Rock'n'roll.

How the heck did you choose San Diego for your first marathon?

26:16

I think we were just like, oh, if we're going to do 1, let's go somewhere cool.

Yeah, that makes sense.

26:20

We.

Didn't have any money.

26:21

We were so young and my husband's parents came with us and we like shared a hotel room with them

because they were paying for the hotel room.

26:28

Oh man, I remember being like I don't think we could have done this if you were didn't come and like

his parents wore shirts that have the date of our wedding on it and like.

26:39

Shut up, that's so adorable.

See.

26:43

Yeah, I think his parents are a little more like your parents.

Yeah, that's really sweet.

26:48

Wow.

Yeah.

26:51

But yeah, so I think we were, we'll just do this one and done.

I wanted to have a big goal before our wedding.

26:59

And then I also was like, oh, this will keep me in shape.

Then I can be the size I would be.

27:06

That's the what my mindset was when at 25.

Dude, I PR Ed my marathon at the time.

27:13

I ran a sub four for the very first time the year of our wedding.

So if that tells you anything, women, I don't know why we feel like we have to do that to ourselves

27:21

for our wedding, but it was like, no, I'm going to be in the best I know possible.

So silly.

27:27

It's so funny because I look back and I'm like Oh my gosh, you were like so young and pre kids.

OK.

27:32

So San Diego and did you travel or not travel together?

Did you train together for the marathon?

27:38

Yeah, we pretty much did all of our long runs together.

This was before GPS watches were thing, but we didn't have so we just had Timex watch and we would

27:48

just run based on time usually.

And then sometimes we would get home and Matt my run it and see how far we ran.

27:56

I remember we'd be like OK, 20 miles, we'll go run for three hours.

And so that's what we would do.

28:02

And looking back, I'm like, oh, we were probably running a lot more than we realized we were

running.

28:07

Probably.

On the Wednesday, I'd be like, OK, we're supposed to run 10 miles today.

28:11

It's just do we'll run for an hour and 40 minutes in case we're running 10 minute miles.

And I'm like, yeah.

28:17

No way.

We were running 10 minute miles in flat Indianapolis, we were running like 8 minute miles.

28:23

So, yeah, I think that in that sense, we were probably like very prepared for our first.

Marathon.

28:29

Yeah.

I'm trying to remember which year Zach and I ran Chicago together.

28:34

But we trained for Chicago together 1 summer.

This was.

28:38

And it was while we were dating.

It was before we got married.

28:41

And I just remembered that solidifying in my mind that he was the one for me because he had never

run more than three miles and then agreed to train.

28:48

And I think there's really.

It's great.

28:51

I miss it now because we don't run together at all.

He doesn't really run, Yeah, but I loved that season where we like we're doing all our long runs.

28:59

Yeah, no, we've run so many miles together.

We don't really run together much anymore.

29:04

But and then when once you had kids, it was like taking turns and or we'd go on runs with a stroller

together.

29:12

But yeah, lots of miles if you can.

And if you can survive, like running a marathon.

29:17

With right spouse, it's a great metaphor because you can get for marriage.

It's hard.

29:21

Irritability that.

Yeah, that's right.

29:24

It's really hard.

Just when you think it might not get hard, then it gets hard.

29:28

So what do you remember about that first marathon, besides what you've already shared?

It was hard.

29:37

No, I so I think that we went into that marathon being like, let's try to break 4 hours.

I think that's doable.

29:48

And then I was like at the Expo the night before and I was like nerding, being a total runner dork,

talking to the pacing people.

29:55

And I was like, oh, maybe I can qualify for Boston.

So then I got one of those bands that gives.

30:02

You like I've porn?

One of those.

30:05

Yeah, and I was like, I'm going to try to do this and that.

At that time it was 340, so it was a lot slower than it is now.

30:14

The women's BQ for 18 to 35 is 325I believe yeah, and I think it's 325I feel like so much older than

that now.

30:24

No I think it's 325 for my group.

I can't remember actually cuz then I always take off time mentally for the buffer in my head.

30:32

Right.

How old are?

30:34

You I will be 39 this year.

So then you're probably 330, OK, And I'm probably 335 or maybe I'm 340.

30:44

I don't.

Know it's hard.

30:46

It's really hard.

It's hard.

30:48

So we got to like Miles.

We ran 17 miles together and he was like not doing well.

30:54

And I was pretty fine.

And I was like, I'm just going to go because I want to try to qualify for Boston.

31:01

And so I left him and I was running with some other guy.

Maybe this isn't a good analogy for marriage.

31:08

I take it back.

Bye.

31:11

So I'm bye when it gets hard I'm going to leave.

So I left him and I was running with some other guy, like some younger guy, but we were like pulling

31:21

each other along.

And so I left me and this other guy left.

31:27

He knew though, that I was trying to qualify for Boston.

So he was like, and he was like really starting to like, it's, it's interesting.

31:35

If I would have stayed with him, what would the trajectory of our marathoning have ended up being?

Because the trajectory was I did qualify and then I ran Boston and I had a bad race there and I was

31:50

like, maybe I just won't do marathon anymore.

But then he was like, if you're going to run a marathon, I'm going to run another marathon.

31:58

And so then he had another bad race and he realized he had really low iron.

So that was really the problem.

32:04

It.

Was like really a problem.

32:06

It was very low.

And so then we signed up for a couple more and he once he got his iron back, he was like.

32:13

Oh, now I can kick your ass.

Yeah, yeah.

32:17

Pretty much.

And I'm willing to work harder than you.

32:19

So yeah, I'm like, oh, I guess if I would have stayed with him, though, in that first marathon, if I

would have been able to finish feeling like I had so much left in the tank because I stayed back

32:31

with him, I probably would have been like, I want to try this again and try.

To qualify, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:37

Because I do remember crossing the finish line and crossing the finish line for your first marathon

is like very.

32:43

Yeah, it's.

So emotional because I remember in that race I was like, there were like fighter jets overhead and I

32:50

was like, drop a bomb on me.

My body is shutting down.

32:53

Like I, I really feel like that.

I was like, I just don't care if it's all over at this point.

32:58

I just feel so bad.

And I really was like, are my kidneys shutting down?

33:02

Can I?

I felt so awful.

33:05

But I remember standing there forever being like, where is he?

Is he OK?

33:10

And then he came like, I don't know, 10 or 15 minutes later and he was fine, but he was not feeling

good.

33:16

Did you have a plan of where to meet after?

Because I feel like back then would you have been you'd have a cell phone maybe.

33:24

I don't know if you'd run with it because they were not as small.

No, I did not have a smartphone.

33:29

We were.

I have a raised.

33:31

Yeah, I can picture that, yeah.

I know we didn't run with our phones, no.

33:38

And yeah, and we didn't run with music or anything like that.

Just so big.

33:44

So free.

That's crazy.

33:46

I think about that now.

Maybe it wasn't.

33:48

I don't.

Know if I went and found his parents?

33:50

Yeah.

Yeah, it was San Diego.

33:51

It wasn't like running New York or Boston or anything like that.

Yeah, that's where it all started.

33:57

And does Rock'n'roll San Diego Marathon?

Does that still exist today?

34:03

I don't know.

Yeah, I think.

34:04

So yeah, I just can't keep up with all the Rock'n'roll series that there are.

I think that's the only rock'n'roll.

34:09

I did OK.

Yeah.

34:12

So San Diego 2008.

Yeah, that's wild.

34:16

And then I ran Boston.

And next year, OK, And you said you had a rough race, I guess talk about like how you even thought

34:23

about training at the time because obviously later you're now a coach, but like, how did you train

for your first marathons?

34:31

The first marathon I think I don't I use like a runners world plan or something.

Runners world, I don't know if they still have it, but they would, you would be able to just plug in

34:41

your goal time and they would spit out plans for you.

That's cool.

34:45

And we were running like I think for like our first marathon, like we were in pretty decent high

mileage for that.

34:53

Not super high, but we like we were doing 10 mile runs mid week and we probably did at least 320

milers.

35:02

And then yeah, I was like super burnout though, even though I signed up for Boston.

And so I did the run last Run Faster plan for Boston, which was only running three days a week, but

35:16

I very much did not do the cross training.

So.

35:22

If you do run less, run faster, you do need to get your butt on a bike or an elliptical or get in

the pool.

35:29

So I just think I wasn't in great shape for it.

And then the hills just totally destroyed me.

35:34

Like my, I remember my quads hurt so bad at the end of Boston.

I was like, and it was very strange experience because this was like before social media times,

35:45

right?

Like I didn't get Instagram till 2012.

35:48

I didn't know anybody there.

I didn't know the scene.

35:51

It was more like old school runners at that point.

But Boston was like, you could sign up, like you qualify and then when it opens you just sign up.

36:00

Like it wasn't like, I gotta wait and see if I get in kind of thing.

I ran 33952 and I actually think back then you could have run 34059.

36:10

Like you even had that extra 59 seconds after the cut off.

Yeah.

36:15

It just, it was a very strange experience.

I felt like a very feel like out of place, like all these people are super experienced runners and I

36:23

don't know what I'm doing here, but my parents actually.

Going to ask if Glenn did Glenn come too?

36:29

Glenn came and my parents came and my friend Brooke came and yeah, so it was not a good experience.

And so then I thought I would be done.

36:41

And then we just kept.

I think after that, what we did was we did what we then ran Monumental that fall and we were going

36:54

to do the half and the night like at the Expo.

We were like signing up that day because that's how I operate.

37:03

And I was like, let's just do the full.

Get out of town.

37:05

Let's just do the.

Full.

37:07

So we did the full, but we weren't like, we didn't trade for it.

We were just like, yeah, let's just do it, It'll be fun.

37:12

My God and.

So we ran the full together.

37:16

Wow, I forgot about that.

That must have.

37:18

Been 099 Yeah after.

Yeah, yeah.

37:22

Wow.

Yeah, it must have been that.

37:24

I think it was probably that same.

Year just like OK.

37:26

I think we were in like 3358 or something.

We were just, we just squeaked out.

37:31

Yeah.

That's amazing.

37:33

Amazing.

Can you imagine trying to do that now without training?

37:36

Because I cannot.

I I think I've run and just run for long enough that like I I could.

37:44

It would just not be fun.

It would be like, really.

37:47

Miserable.

Yeah.

37:48

That's where my husband Zach is getting with the indie mini is every year he does it, but I feel

like he's training less and less, just thinking, oh, I've done it so many times.

37:57

And then last year he had a horrible race and at the end he was just like, yeah, I don't think I'm

ever going to do this again.

38:03

I was like, you're going to do it again.

You just need to train like a normal person.

38:08

Get like a couple 8.

Just anything like anything besides just like running 6 miles one time would be great, Yeah.

38:14

So yeah, I feel like as we get older.

It's harder the first year obviously the first year I ran the mini, I ran 6 miles was my longest

38:23

long run before the my first mini and that was in 2005 I think.

OK.

38:30

I was in.

OK, yeah, my first mini, my first half was the Innie mini and it was in 2007 and I was in college,

38:38

so I don't know how I, my memory is really horrible.

I don't remember why I chose that to be my first year 'cause my parents did it for quite a while and

38:47

my dad was trying to get me to do it.

And I kept being like, no, I'm good.

38:50

And then finally I guess I was like, OK, and then I did, yeah.

And I've pretty much done it like every year except for one for who knows why.

39:00

Yeah, maybe No, because I did it pregnant with my first.

Yeah.

39:07

Oh, my whole family has done that.

Your whole family.

39:11

My mom, my dad and my sisters, we've all done it at least once.

Yeah, it is one of those things though, if you're in this area, even in the state, I feel like it's

39:20

just something you got to do.

You got to do it.

39:22

And so then when did you start having babies?

2012, OK.

39:29

And then now you have 4 boys, which is crazy to think about.

Can you talk a little bit about your journey to becoming a mom?

39:37

Yeah, so I just thought it would be a little bit easier than it was at the beginning.

And I did get pregnant.

39:44

And then I had two miscarriages early on.

And then I think it's so weird.

39:51

When I got off birth control, I wasn't getting my period.

And the doctor I went to was like, oh, yeah, you have PCOS, You have polycystic ovarian syndrome.

40:01

And I was like, I do.

And she was like, Yep.

40:05

She diagnosed me with that based on blood work, no ultrasound, no nothing.

She prescribed me two medications with no further investigation.

40:16

I'm 26 years old.

I have no of the outward symptoms of PCOS which is like weight gain and hair growth on your face and

40:27

just different things like that.

We're not adding up.

40:29

Like I had no of these other symptoms and she didn't even order a freaking ultrasound to see if I

had cysts on my ovaries.

40:38

She solely diagnosed me with it based on blood work.

And as a 20 something, you're just like fully trusting of a medical professional 26 years old and.

40:50

I was in tears.

I was so upset.

40:52

And then I was like, well, if that's the worst thing, like it's not a life threatening disease, but

my mom's a nurse and she was like, no, she was like, I would not take that medicine.

41:04

First of all the the medicine is like heart medicine and like diabetes medicine.

So I went and got a second opinion with my mom and like with her OBGYN and they did do the

41:15

ultrasound and they were like, yeah, you do have a lot of cysts on your ovaries, but it's probably

just your body like getting back into figuring itself out from being on birth control for I was only

41:26

on birth control for one year.

Interesting and.

41:28

So he, yeah, so he gave me a medicine that induced a period and then my body just figured it out and

I started getting my period regularly and I never had to take that medicine.

41:42

That's wild.

It's wild that what if I hadn't had my mom consult with, because then who would I have talked to and

41:52

asked about then?

Would I have just continued taking that medicine for years and walked around accepting that I had

41:59

this PCOSI guess in the moment I did have polycystic ovary, but it was more like a short term thing,

yeah.

42:09

So.

42:12

So anyway, I won't be referring anybody to.

That doctor anytime.

42:17

Soon.

And so then I did end up getting pregnant a couple years later and had my first miscarriage.

42:28

And I remember I didn't have a real OBGYN at that point because I had not really transitioned from

that one lady that prescribed the medicine.

42:40

And so I was like, I got to get into someone.

And this ended up being my OBGYN that I saw for the next deck.

42:48

She just happened to be the doctor that had an opening that day, like because sometimes it's hard to

get into people and she probably had a cancellation.

42:55

And I just remember like she squatted down next to me and looked me in the eye and was like, just

handled my like sorrow really well.

43:05

And I was like, that's it.

That's my doctor.

43:10

And so we walked through it again a second time, and she had prescribed me, I think, progesterone to

help protect the lining of my uterus.

43:19

And the next time I got pregnant, I took that immediately and it stayed, the baby stayed around.

So that was my first Marshall in 2012.

43:34

And then every two years.

So the first 2 are 2 1/2 years apart and it took a little longer than I thought it would to get

43:43

pregnant with my second.

And then the other two were not even planned.

43:48

We wanted to have more kids, but it was like, yeah, it was an easy, easier to get pregnant.

Four boys, my Lord.

43:57

Yeah.

I know I always feel like I the fertility discussion is tough and especially with someone with an

44:06

obnoxious amount of kids.

But I will say like it's not that I'm grateful that I had miscarriages, but I'm like grateful that I

44:14

had a little bit of hardship.

I can't understand someone's life who's like truly going through fertility stuff.

44:21

I can't understand that.

But I got a little bit of a glimpse of what if I can't make what if this can't happen for me?

44:29

And just like the gratefulness of what it means to actually be pregnant and carry a pregnancy.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat I had.

44:37

I have not had a miscarriage but I had bleeding with both of my pregnancies which I only thought

could happen if you had a miscarriage.

44:45

So even after the first time I had problems and then it was fine when it happened.

My second pregnancy, I still thought that it was because they're like the minute that you call, it's

44:56

like you're that's not normal.

So I've had the tiniest, it is terrifying, but yeah, the tiniest taste of that.

45:02

But could you tell people about how you approached being fit after, during what that looked like

across?

45:11

I know that you were literally pregnant for so many times and so long.

I feel like how did each one cuz I feel like there's so many years of you like either being like

45:21

pregnant or postpartum.

So how did you approach?

45:24

That yeah, I think for my first one, I was so young.

I was 28.

45:29

I was still 28 when I had my first baby.

I was almost 29.

45:34

Yeah.

So I feel like it was honestly, I don't know.

45:37

People can say age is just a number, but honestly, F that it's not.

Yeah.

45:41

It's not that you can't do incredible things as you age.

And I still think at 41, if I really wanted to, I could run a marathon PR Yeah.

45:50

It's just that your body does change and it's just, yeah, it just changes.

It doesn't mean you can't still do hard things.

45:58

But yeah, I think that it was just like a little bit easier at 28 than 35.

And I just was dead set on running all the way through.

46:07

And so I ran up until the day before I had Marshall, I had a scheduled C-section cuz he was breech.

And so I ran the day before.

46:17

I ran 3 miles I really wanted to run the day of but I would like you can't drink or.

Anything right, you can't eat because you're having surgery.

46:24

So you're.

Yeah, yeah.

46:26

Well, honestly, like I could have now that I think about it, because I'm like, they gave you an IV

the second you get in there like you're getting fluids.

46:33

I just wanted to do it to say I right.

I mean, the day before is pretty freaking amazing, yeah.

46:41

And yeah, and then just every baby.

I think I probably moved a little bit less as far as running and real exercise, but I always stayed

46:50

super active throughout and took my time coming back, especially after my last three, my first.

One I was like, wait a minute at my first one I feel like you got back after.

47:01

The first one I waited my six weeks and I had friends that were like running after two or three

weeks.

47:06

And for me I was thinking, oh, this is good.

I'm waiting my full six weeks, but once my six weeks was up, I was an unleashed feral animal.

47:17

Let me run again, yeah.

I ran a marathon four months postpartum, and then another 1-5 months postpartum, and then another

47:24

one nine months postpartum.

I ran 3 marathons within a year.

47:27

No, you did not my. 1st baby being.

Born Lindsay.

47:29

Yes.

Three, like I knew.

47:32

I just remember hearing you talk about some point that I knew you did it pretty soon after, but I

didn't realize you did 3 within a year.

47:40

Wow, that's a lot.

I had him June 26th and then I ran Monumental November, early November, and then I ran Rehoboth

47:48

Beach Marathon like mid-december.

Where's that?

47:51

And then it's in Delaware.

Interesting.

47:56

I think it's in Delaware.

It's in one of those.

47:58

OK, sounds good to me.

They're all the same to me, all those states.

48:03

Somewhere over there.

No offense.

48:06

Yeah, somewhere over there, one of those little ones.

And then I ran the Shamrock Marathon in March and I ran APR that.

48:13

And that's.

When I realized, I think that's when I realized how fast I could run.

48:18

Like I, oh, I have a lot more in.

Yeah.

48:21

And I never got much faster than that because I kept having babies.

But yeah, I ran 313.

48:28

That was like 9 months postpartum.

I ran 313 and I was like, OK, that's pretty fast.

48:34

And then you in 20/20/17 is your fastest marathon overall, correct?

And that was one year after having Russell, who's your third three 1152?

48:47

That's crazy.

So that's super speedy.

48:50

Did you work with a coach during any of these?

No, I've never worked with a coach.

48:55

Glen served as that like my husband because he is not like a naturally fast runner, but he is

willing to put himself through some pain.

49:08

And once he figured out how to train, he trained hard, like he was running 90 miles a week.

He got up to 100 at some point, but at that point when I had run, when I ran my 311 in 2017, he had

49:22

run 249 in 2015, I think 2016 maybe.

And so like he had really taught himself like he had figured out the recipe to get faster.

49:36

And so I relied on him a lot.

I that training cycle though, I just wrote my schedule week to week.

49:45

I was like, OK, so I probably need to do like this.

I probably need to do a long run here.

49:51

I probably need to do that.

I think I only did 120.

49:55

Miller and my mother-in-law had just passed away three months before.

So like, life was chaotic.

50:02

We had three little kids, baby 2 1/2, four.

And yeah, so it's looking back.

50:10

You're like, gosh, I had probably had a lot more in me, but there was just a lot going on you.

Did that in the midst of all the things, which is just insane.

50:21

I think part of the reason I was able to run it that fast, I think that my ability was actually like

much faster than that.

50:29

But also I was just like just tried to let all the pressure go like it's, it doesn't matter how fast

I run.

50:38

Like you always say, like nobody cares.

I knew I had APR in me though, so I I would have been pissed if I squeak a little something out of

50:46

it.

But yeah, it was a crazy time of life.

50:50

It's one of those things where like when things are hard, if you have something else to focus on it

like masks that a little bit the.

50:57

Distraction.

Maybe it was numb.

50:58

Maybe.

It was numbing you out a little.

51:01

Bit and which marathon was that?

That was kind of monumental.

51:03

I can't remember if he said or not.

They're all blurring together, which was.

51:07

Fun because that's our those are our streets.

Like we knew those are our streets.

51:12

We know exactly what's going on.

People on the course.

51:15

I do remember though, this is so funny because I just saw him the other day in Raleigh that my

friend Scott Breeden was pacing the 310 pace group.

51:26

And it's so random because he was my friend, our friend from running from years ago.

I saw him in Raleigh.

51:32

I saw that actually.

I thought that that was mind blowing.

51:34

Like how does that happen?

And how did you even associate?

51:38

Like how are you here?

Like out of context?

51:40

When you see people, you're like, where am I?

I didn't.

51:44

I was like picking up one of my son's soccer buddies 'cause I was the carpool mom that day.

And I was like, why is that dad running like in the middle of the road, 'cause he was like in the

51:56

middle of the road.

And I was like, I can't pull out until he passes.

51:59

And then I looked again.

I was like, that dad looks really fit.

52:02

Like he looks like he can run.

And then he got closer and I was like, that looks like Scott Breeden.

52:09

And then I, like, turned my head and as he passed my window, 'cause he was very close to the car at

that point, and he turned his head and I just still didn't know if it was him.

52:17

And I go Scott Breeden.

I just said it quietly.

52:20

That's he fast.

Yeah.

52:22

And then he was like Lindsay, and so was him.

But yeah, I was like super random.

52:27

He's only here for a week doing some, like, board exam of all places to be like, you're in the

neighborhood I live in, running down the street.

52:34

Like it was so random.

But anyway back to the story.

52:38

He was pacing the 310 pace group and I think we had like two or three miles to go and they come

trotting past us and I was like no, my hopes and dreams of breaking 310 are going out the window.

52:52

And I just, I just could not will myself to stay with him.

But I was it was probably a mile and a half to go really.

52:58

And I was like, you know what though?

If I just keep moving forward 1 foot in front of the other and going as hard as I can at this point

53:05

I should still be well under 313 which was my.

Period of time, yeah, wow, can't be mad.

53:11

No, but still can't be mad.

It's always hard when you look back and you're like, but could I have just squeezed out a tiny more

53:16

and you're like, no could.

I have stayed with.

53:18

Them.

Probably not, but I think.

53:21

Everybody listening is probably experienced when that pace group trots on bond.

Yeah, and you're like, Dang, although it can be confusing sometimes when you start in different

53:30

spots like then the pace group.

Yeah, did I?

53:33

Was I ahead of you?

Did I cross the start?

53:34

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55:23

And so before that 2017 PR you started your podcast when 2016, OK.

So that was also going on like it was also like a new thing going on, so.

55:32

What made you be like I want to start a podcast?

I was listening to podcasts, I listened to Serial and I love that adna that.

55:43

Was my first one.

Yeah, he's free now.

55:45

Same.

Yes, I saw it the other day and I was like, Oh my God.

55:50

Wait, so do you think he's.

I don't know, I was like thinking about, like, maybe I want to go back and listen again because, I

55:55

don't know.

I feel like it was just such a good first podcast for everybody to listen to because you just

55:59

couldn't get enough of it.

It was so wild.

56:02

Yeah.

So I don't know.

56:04

Yeah, so I listened to that and then I was like, I wonder like what other podcasts are out here?

So then I started listening to Happy Hour with Jamie Ivy and that was like a Christian based show,

56:15

but I was like, she's just talking to friends and I enjoy listening to it.

And I was like, I could do that.

56:23

I could talk to friends and record it.

And so I was like, I'll talk to friends about running and motherhood and just like life, pop culture

56:32

stuff, whatever.

And but I was like, I'll make it a kind of a running focus.

56:38

And that's what I did.

And my first episode with was with Laura Anderson.

56:43

I made it way more stressful than it needed to be because I do not know anything about audio stuff.

And just like, the thought of like, how do I get a microphone?

56:51

Like everything stressed me out.

I think my first 50 or 60 episodes, my microphone wasn't even plugged in.

56:56

And I thought it was.

But I started pitching pros and they started saying yes.

57:03

And then, you know, and I wanted it to be a job like I really did because I was this like stay at

home mom, but I wanted to have a job, but I also knew I wanted to be with my kids a lot.

57:16

And so I always tell people don't start a podcast for the money, But I also was like, but I want to

make money because I saw that like Jamie Ivy and all those people were like selling ads for their

57:27

podcast.

And I was like, if I could just grow this a little bit, I could start selling ads because you're in

57:33

this phase where you're like, I can't pay for babysitters.

If I'm like, not making any money, I can't justify that.

57:39

You feel so torn.

And so a lot of times I would record, like in my closet while my kids were napping, I would go to

57:46

the Y and I would work out.

And then the people that ran the place, they were like, they knew me really well.

57:53

And I was like, hey, can I sneak into the Chapel and record a podcast?

So I would report podcast in the Chapel at the YMCA while my kids were in the child.

58:04

That's amazing.

And so.

58:06

Yeah, I'm just like, I was freaking hustling so hard.

I could never hustle like that now.

58:14

Yeah.

I would never.

58:16

Be.

I was gonna say you could, you just wouldn't want to.

58:18

Yeah.

I would want to more work life balance.

58:21

Yes.

But yeah, it worked out and it wasn't like it, it didn't I I have a really hard time when people who

58:31

are successful say things like, Oh yeah, and this just fell into my lap and I just, I'm like, stop,

stop.

58:40

So yeah, I worked really hard to get it to what it became.

And now it's been just like steady for a really long time.

58:47

One of my questions for you is, who have you been, like, nervous to interview anybody like you've

interviewed?

58:55

You said you started asking pros to say yes.

Who?

58:57

Remind me who the first pro to say yes was?

Sarah Hall.

59:02

Sarah.

Hall like you're like, holy shit, Sarah Hall, who I interviewed last year and almost had a heart

59:07

attack.

Oh yeah, you got to interview.

59:09

Her.

Yeah, I blacked out.

59:10

Were you nervous to interview her?

Yeah, yeah.

59:14

I was really nervous because I didn't really know what I was doing yet and her Internet wasn't

working and we had to reschedule.

59:21

Yeah.

So she got on and I was like, this isn't going to work.

59:24

Like we're not getting any of this video.

And this was before the days of Riverside.

59:28

So because on Riverside where you record and I record is really cool because if someone's Internet

is out, it records locally.

59:36

So even if you couldn't hear me and I was cutting out to you, Riverside would still be capturing.

It was wild, really.

59:42

Yeah.

So I remember being like super nervous because I was like, what if she can't?

59:47

What if she ends up not being able to do it right?

So yeah, she was one of my first big yeses.

59:53

And then I was like dabbling and non runners too at that point.

Like I remember I had Jamie, Ivy said yes.

59:58

I feel like I remember listening to that because I know that name from you for sure.

She was just like one of my favorite podcasters.

1:00:05

I'm gonna ask my favorite podcasters to come on, I say.

Sarah Hall was the first pro that I didn't, No, But Molly Ludlow came on for she was truly the first

1:00:14

pro.

And she doesn't run pro anymore, but she's a nurse now.

1:00:18

But she ran for Saucony and she was an 800m runner.

She placed fourth at the Olympic trials twice.

1:00:25

Yeah, in 2012 and 2016.

So, yeah, And I had interviewed her right before the 2016 Olympic trial.

1:00:34

Wow.

She married someone I went to high school with, which is.

1:00:37

Super.

Random so I knew her.

1:00:39

She like came over to my house and we recorded in person.

That's cool.

1:00:42

Yeah.

But then Molly, Sarah Hall, Emily Enfeld.

1:00:46

And then once Sarah and Emily came on, it started trickling.

Alicia Montano came on Brenda Martinez, and that was a favor of Molly.

1:00:55

Oh yeah.

Because Molly knew her from running.

1:00:57

And I think once you start getting big your names on, it's easier to get more big games because you

can always.

1:01:04

Name drop like listen be like hey, I've already had.

The first time I interviewed Michael Johnson, you better believe I'm name dropping that every track

1:01:11

person I have on my.

Show yes.

1:01:15

Like not in the conversation, but to pitch.

Them, absolutely.

1:01:19

You totally name dropped that in the conversation with Kenny that I just listened to for sure

because he's like the fastest human being on the planet.

1:01:27

So I work with a PR person to book Kenny.

And so she might have said, hey, this woman has interviewed Michael Johnson, Sonia, Richard Ross and

1:01:37

named some track legends.

And he might have.

1:01:40

Been like, OK, so yeah.

Yeah, for anybody doesn't know that name, go watch Sprints on Netflix.

1:01:46

Season 2 in particular for him.

Kenny.

1:01:48

Yeah, Kenny.

Bennerich yeah, I feel like some yeah, he placed.

1:01:52

Second in the 200 in the Olympics.

He's a beast.

1:01:55

I really enjoyed that.

But yeah, I feel like over the course of time, over these nine years, you've interviewed like

1:02:02

everybody there is almost to interview.

Who are some of the people that you have not interview that you're like dying still to interview

1:02:09

that just for some reason you haven't?

I've been pitching Allison Felix since the day I launched my show nine years ago.

1:02:14

Yeah.

Come on, SO.

1:02:16

Come on, Allison, I've emailed as recently as three weeks ago and they were like, no, basically they

were like, she doesn't have time.

1:02:25

Right now you're like, OK, how about next I?

Yeah, just kidding.

1:02:28

I think multiple times a year for nine years I have tried to get her on my show, and I thought I

might be able to get her on because I'm connected with Every Mother Counts and she does a lot of

1:02:40

work with like, maternal healthcare and like athletes and motherhood.

And I've had Christy Turlington Burns on my show, who's the founder of Every Mother Counts and

1:02:51

Alicia Montano, who's an advocate for mothers and mother runners.

But yeah, it's just her.

1:02:59

I'd love to have Gabby Thomas on.

Yeah, yeah, that's another one.

1:03:03

Ellie St.

Pierre, I've never had been able to get her on.

1:03:08

There's a few people that I don't know why I've just not been able to beat them, but I've tried.

Corey McGee, I've tried a lot.

1:03:14

And Cole?

What about Cole?

1:03:15

Have you gotten Cole yet?

Cole Hawker.

1:03:18

No, I haven't gotten Cole Hawker, the PR person I'm working with who helped me book Kenny Bednarik

and also has me interviewing Grant Fisher and Cool, yeah, she works with Cole and Gabby Thomas.

1:03:31

I reached out to interview Gabby and I basically got she's booked out six months.

But I have these people and I was.

1:03:37

Like, cool, Sign me up for that.

Yeah.

1:03:40

Yeah, so that's how I got Kenny and Grant, but I have not heard back about Cole just yet.

I'm sure it'll happen eventually just because of the indie connection, but.

1:03:49

Yeah.

And what about, like, crazy stories of I know there's been at least one time, I think, with Des

1:03:57

Linden that you recorded an interview and, like, for some reason the technology didn't work.

Like, those are my worst nightmares.

1:04:04

And so like, how many times does that happen to you over the course of nine years?

Not very many, probably like 4.

1:04:14

That happened to Dez and Emily Enfeld.

And Emily was like, yeah, I'll do it.

1:04:19

Dez was tough because that was after her Boston where, yeah, I had begged her agent Josh Cox.

I love you, Josh Cox, because you have helped me get so many interviews over the years.

1:04:32

But I basically was like, please, I'm so embarrassed.

And he always puts the ask to the athletes and is such a good advocate and helps with the media and

1:04:42

everything.

He's really great to work with.

1:04:44

But she said yes.

So she reported with me.

1:04:46

But it was just, it was an unfortunate time because it was like.

Right when every.

1:04:50

He was on the Today show.

She met Taylor Swift and I had interviewed her before, but I was like, I got to get this post Boston

1:04:56

interview.

So that was like, yeah, after she won.

1:04:59

I get nervous for that to happen when I'm interviewing a big name.

That was really hard to book.

1:05:04

I remember Sonia Richards, Ross.

Like something was messed up with her Internet or something and I was like, shoot, cuz I like when

1:05:12

am I gonna get the opportunity to like, re record this?

Yeah.

1:05:16

Those kinds of things for sure, yeah.

So I loved how recently you shared like random fun facts really from your whole running journey

1:05:26

because there is so much there.

You've been doing it for a long time.

1:05:29

I remember seeing you in New York in 2019, and that was incredible.

But then I saw that you've done New York twice.

1:05:36

So which years have you done the New York City Marathon?

I did it in 2019 and 2022.

1:05:42

OK, that was the last marathon.

OK.

1:05:43

It was in 22.

OK.

1:05:45

Yeah, it was, I guess it was 2 1/2 hours ago.

That's.

1:05:47

My gosh, Lindsay got to get when it's come to Marine Corps this year.

That's what I'm trying to do.

1:05:53

Yeah, it's the 50th anniversary, so I'm.

Oh I I have always wanted to run.

1:05:59

That there, I've done it once a while ago.

I don't.

1:06:02

What do you have to Is there a lottery or do you have charity bid?

How does that work?

1:06:06

It goes live, registration goes live at I think 10:00 AM Eastern on April 7th, and I think that they

will probably immediately sell out, if I had to guess, because of just all the buzz around

1:06:17

marathoning that there is right now and how it's one of the largest ones that doesn't have a

lottery.

1:06:23

And I've just heard it's like.

So cool, just.

1:06:27

Seeing all the service men and women.

You run by all the monument.

1:06:31

It's just really cool anyway.

But yeah, New York in 2019 I loved because I got to go to your event that you had either that year

1:06:39

or you did you do an event the year before or did you do the event the year you ran?

I did events both years in 2018.

1:06:47

That was really my first live show outside of like homemade scrappy, one I put together on my own in

India.

1:06:54

So that's the one I went to because it was the year I ran.

Yeah, I interviewed Paul.

1:06:59

Did it was so amazing.

Which was such a cool opportunity.

1:07:02

I had Christine Burke, who was the president or the vice president of the New York Rd.

Runners on my podcast.

1:07:10

And so I had formed a relationship with her, and I just said, hey, I'd love to do a live show in New

York.

1:07:14

And so they invited me to do that.

And they were like, yeah, we'll have Paula Radcliffe.

1:07:20

And I was like the world record holder in the marathon.

OK, cool.

1:07:24

So that was like a really big deal to me at that time.

They did not pay me for that.

1:07:29

I paid for my own way.

I stayed with my friend Ashley.

1:07:33

And then I realized I need to get paid for stuff like this.

Needs to be part of the job.

1:07:38

I can't just, I can't just take a vacation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:07:43

But the cool thing about that was my Sandy was only like 3 months old and I was in like the throes

of like postmartum every.

1:07:53

I think I remember Glenn, like holding Sandy, like walking around.

Yeah, I was in.

1:07:58

Yeah, it was, it wasn't a running store.

It was New York Rd.

1:08:01

Runners, but they had set up a, was it the run set up a pop up shop there too, so it felt like a

store.

1:08:06

Yeah.

That was really one of the first times where I experienced people being like, hey, I listen to your

1:08:12

podcast like random people and.

Like me.

1:08:17

That felt really cool like that.

Yeah.

1:08:19

But I knew.

You.

1:08:20

But I remember being like, Oh my gosh.

I don't know, it's it felt special.

1:08:24

Like I was like, oh, cuz you, you put out this podcast and you like you, we've talked about this

like you see the numbers, but you don't really know, You don't really picture them as like human

1:08:35

beings.

That's OK All over the country.

1:08:39

Yeah.

And so.

1:08:40

Like real people?

Cool.

1:08:41

Experience.

Yeah.

1:08:42

Yeah.

In 2019, I interviewed Kellen Taylor, Sarah Hall and Roberta Groner at the weekend of that race.

1:08:50

And then I went to the Every Mother Counts office and interviewed Christy Turlington Burns.

And then I ran the marathon.

1:08:57

Yeah, so it was a cool.

Yeah, that is really cool and that was a great.

1:09:00

The weather that year was pretty good I think cuz I spectated.

Yeah.

1:09:04

I think it was a little hot at the end, but it was like fine.

So I also loved the 2010, this random race that you ran that you said had like hundreds of people.

1:09:15

Do you remember which one?

Yes, the Piney Point Marathon.

1:09:18

No, there's a different one, the Lower Potomac River Marathon as well.

Yeah, yeah, that's the same name.

1:09:25

Okay.

Yeah, I don't know why I call it Piney Point.

1:09:28

I think that that's the city.

Okay.

1:09:31

Lower Potomac River Marathon, Yeah, we, that was APR at the time.

We were like just looking for, it was just the time of year we were looking for a race.

1:09:40

And then we were like, my sister lived in DC at the time.

So we were like, oh, we can go visit her.

1:09:45

And so I think that we visited her in that anyway, we and also again had no money.

So we drove and like literally drove home same day.

1:09:56

Both ran a marathon, finished the marathon and drove home.

Because we can't pay for another hotel night or miss work the next day.

1:10:07

Wow.

Oh, to be young.

1:10:09

Drove home 12 hours.

That's insane.

1:10:11

And he, I know it's, Can you imagine even considering that now I would get on an airplane and fly.

Home an hour.

1:10:17

So that's two, yeah. 12 hours, 12 hours.

Did he drive or did you drive or did you switch?

1:10:23

Oh yeah.

Oh my gosh, yeah.

1:10:25

He does.

I don't drive.

1:10:26

I'm a passenger.

Yeah, lucky.

1:10:28

Yeah, Actually, I rather I'd rather drive because being the passenger Princess with kids means that

you're the slave to all the kids and you're just reaching backwards constantly.

1:10:38

Yeah.

Totally.

1:10:39

You're the waitress.

I don't drive ever when we do Rd. trips.

1:10:43

Like ever.

Not what?

1:10:44

Not for one segment.

But yeah, that race was tiny.

1:10:47

It was like 150 people and I got 30.

I know that's.

1:10:50

So great.

Is that the only time you've been on the podium or have you done that before?

1:10:54

Yes, I've placed in like little 5 which.

Is still amazing.

1:10:58

Most people who listen to this probably, and me, like I'm like, I've never been on the podium for

anything.

1:11:04

I think that probably one of my fastest, best races.

I think I got second place was the Firecracker Six.

1:11:12

Yeah, it was the summer of 2013.

I had just run the 3/13 marathon and I was training for 1/2 Iron Man.

1:11:22

I was like, I'll just jump into this Firecracker 6 and see how fast I can run.

Because I was still doing like fast stuff.

1:11:29

And I think my pace was like 6625 for six miles and I got second place.

Wow.

1:11:36

I'm still sad I didn't break the tape because that would have been a first of all, right?

You're like the one time I can break the tape.

1:11:42

Yeah, I maybe could have.

But yeah, that's probably my fastest like race I've ever really done.

1:11:50

And so for the Marathon 1, you won 100 bucks too so And you didn't want to splurge on a hotel.

I won 100 bucks and I had run without a watch and I ran with some random guy pretty much the whole

1:12:01

race.

He was like a marathon maniac guy.

1:12:04

Oh yeah, because.

I was like, you're spending your whole marathon with me?

1:12:08

But he just didn't care.

He was just ran a lot of marathons.

1:12:11

That's so funny.

And I think I ran 324 and I was like, oh, OK, I think I next time I could break 320 maybe.

1:12:19

So it was like a spiral effect.

Like you start seeing what you're capable.

1:12:24

Of yeah, it sounds like you've done at least a handful of states.

Would you ever?

1:12:29

Would you ever try to do all of them or no?

No, probably not, just because I don't think that's how I want to spend my time.

1:12:36

That's fair.

Yeah, no, yeah, we've done California, Green Bay, WI, St.

1:12:43

Louis, MO, tiny point.

So that's Maryland.

1:12:47

I've done Rehoboth Beach.

And who knows where that is?

1:12:50

And who knows what little state that is.

Virginia Beach cuz I did Shetrock, Indiana of course multiple times.

1:13:00

Boston, MA.

Chicago, IL.

1:13:02

You could like New York, just gotta get like, just like get paid to go to all of them.

But but I'm usually in scene so I can't race them.

1:13:12

OK, if I did the live show before and then I could.

Events and then like jump in the race and then jump.

1:13:18

In the race, yeah.

That's, that is how I got to do New York for the first time.

1:13:23

I did pay for my entry but I they did give me a bid because I was like working and doing the live

show and I just asked.

1:13:31

As you should have.

I did pay, yeah, yeah, I did pay the $300.

1:13:35

Though good back.

Don't get it twisted.

1:13:38

Good back.

But then the second time I ran New York, I raised money forever.

1:13:43

OK, yeah, that's right.

I was a charity.

1:13:45

Yeah, Yeah, I did it as a charity and I didn't fundraise.

I just wrote a check.

1:13:49

Yeah.

Because we give every year.

1:13:51

And so like, I was like, hey, honey, like, how about for this year, like part of our allocation,

this can be what we give.

1:13:56

And so it worked out but.

Yeah, it's always a good option.

1:14:01

I I bet there are lots of people that just donate the money and I think so raising the money.

It's a lot.

1:14:06

It's so much like 5 bucks at a time.

It's a lot.

1:14:09

That's a lot of work.

Yeah.

1:14:11

Yeah, especially for people who do Boston on a charity bib, that is some hustle to raise those kinds

of funds.

1:14:17

I think our minimum was 3500 and Glenn raised.

So I committed to raising for both of us because I was like, I want you to do it too.

1:14:27

And I so I set myself a goal of $10,000 because we had to do 7000.

I was like, let's just get up to 10.

1:14:34

But I will tell you I did the fundraising.

But man his like 2 posts on LinkedIn.

1:14:41

Oh.

Because he had work people given 200 here, 200 there, and so we got big chunks from, that's cool,

1:14:50

the LinkedIn.

Posts.

1:14:52

Yeah, that's amazing.

OK.

1:14:55

So let's talk about what we alluded to earlier on, which is the history of breast cancer in your

family and what that journey was like, the measures that you took to be preventative, all the things

1:15:08

I think this audience could certainly benefit from hearing your story.

Yeah, and it's always like a weird thing to talk about because I feel like health anxieties is like

1:15:18

a long lasting thing in my life that I'm like constantly working on and having preventative

surgeries.

1:15:26

It has eased my mind, but it hasn't taken away the lifelong battle I have with this.

Like, that seems to be more intense than most people.

1:15:36

In 2012, I found out I had the bracket 2 gene mutation, which gives you like an 85% chance of having

breast cancer in your lifetime.

1:15:47

And I was already like really scared about breast cancer.

And I had just finished nursing my first baby and I was freaking out the whole time because when

1:15:57

you're nursing, you get like clogged milk ducks and like all the things.

And I was like, Oh my gosh, I have breast cancer.

1:16:03

So I would like obsessively give myself breast exams and always freaking out about everything.

Like I had even a year before thought I felt something but my doctor was like I don't feel anything.

0:00

But then she let me go get an ultrasound anyway because I was so nervous and it didn't look like

1:16:21

anything.

That's it's good though I had that Peace of Mind.

1:16:23

But I just decided even though I wasn't done having kids I was like I am so anxious about this.

If I can have this preventative surgery to have the double mastectomy, I think it'll give me such a

1:16:35

Peace of Mind.

And so I elected to do that in October of 2013.

1:16:41

So my oldest son was like a little over one when I had my surgery.

And the way I found out I had BRCA, though, was my grandma had breast cancer in her 40s.

1:16:54

And then she was diagnosed stage 4 and overcame that.

And then 25 years later, she, yeah, she was like, I, I think miracle, she was super Christian and

1:17:10

went to this like weird healing camp and came home and couldn't walk.

And my grandpa was like she had said you can go to this healing thing, but like when you come back,

1:17:24

you have to go to the doctor.

And she went and she told me years later, like when she went to the doctor had called interns and

1:17:32

people into the room and they were like, he was like, you have to, I have to show.

You.

1:17:35

Oh no.

This is what stage 4 looks like.

1:17:40

And so she was healed from that.

I was like 6 or seven at the time.

1:17:45

I was pretty young.

She had my mom young.

1:17:48

My mom had us young, so young.

What was her treatment?

1:17:50

Did she go through chemo?

Lose her hair.

1:17:52

Chemo.

Yeah.

1:17:53

Yeah, all that.

Yeah.

1:17:55

And she had a mastectomy, only they used to call them radical mastectomies because they cut all the

way down to your abdomen.

1:18:01

And she only got 1 breast removed because it was the one that had the cancer.

I'm like, I don't know why you wouldn't get both.

1:18:06

And then she just lived her life with one.

Do you think this is where your like health anxiety comes from?

1:18:12

The history of seeing her go through that.

I don't know.

1:18:17

I was so young.

I was like 6.

1:18:19

It certainly doesn't come from my mom because my mom is figured out.

Take care of it, move on.

1:18:24

Yeah.

So then when she was in her 60s, shortly after I graduate college, she had ovarian cancer.

1:18:28

And she lived with that for eight years.

And she did finally pass away from that.

1:18:34

She was only 72, but she lived like such a full life with ovarian cancer, man, if anybody did it,

well, it was her.

1:18:44

So when she had ovarian cancer, that's when she got tested for the BRCA gene because it's related

with BRCA.

1:18:50

Your ovarian cancer risk is like 4045%.

This is for BRCA too.

1:18:56

So it's not as high, but ovarian cancer is historically like a more deadly cancer than breast

cancer, just usually because it's caught so late.

1:19:03

Yeah, people aren't getting screened like you get screened for mammograms.

My mom found out she was positive and I was like, oh man, no, I got to get the test.

1:19:11

My sisters both got the test.

They were negative.

1:19:15

They also weren't concerned about it at all.

And so I of course, the one who was concerned, of course I'm positive.

1:19:22

And so then I was really happy with that surgery.

It just was life changing for me to not obsess over that all the time.

1:19:29

And then I would get my ovaries ultrasound every like six months, get my California 125 checked and.

What is that the?

1:19:39

CA. 125.

It's like a blood test and it it detects, I believe it detects inflammation in like your pelvic

1:19:48

area.

So it's just like an extra extra measure they take if you are BRCA positive, like if you get your

1:19:56

ultrasound, they look at your ovaries, make sure nothing looks fishy and then they do the blood test

as well, just as extra measure.

1:20:04

Gotcha.

And is there how many BRCA genes are there?

1:20:06

Are there 2?

Just two I think. 21 and two, yeah.

1:20:11

And one is that risk is a little bit higher even.

OK, I have.

1:20:14

I think risk 1 is like 90% chance breast cancer -86 or so.

Then after we moved to Raleigh, I was still, when I would go home to Indiana, I would check my

1:20:25

doctor's visits off because I was so obsessed with my doctor and I just didn't want to leave her.

That was like so emotional for me.

1:20:33

And I had like a really low false positive high blood test and they were like, it's just out of the

normal range, but we're going to do a follow up test in a few weeks.

1:20:45

And I was like, because it probably if it wasn't false positive, it was probably could have, it

could have been detecting you have a very like early cells.

1:20:56

Yeah.

And so she finally called me back and the doctor a couple days later when she was back in the office

1:21:05

and she said I was freaking out.

And she said I said, so you can't tell me I don't have cancer.

1:21:10

She was like, I can't tell you that, but I don't think you do, but I can't.

Tell you that and.

1:21:17

She said, can you go get that blood test tomorrow?

Can we just go instead of waiting 2 weeks?

1:21:22

And so I drove up from Bloomington to Indy and got the blood test and it was back down to normal.

I, like, obsessively called their office like, yeah, four days in a row waiting.

1:21:33

And finally the lady was like, OK, she's not back in the office, but I can tell you it's normal.

And I was like, OK, that's all I need to.

1:21:39

She's please stop calling.

Yeah, but I so the thing about that too is I had run 17 miles the day before I got my blood test.

1:21:48

And so it's likely I had some like, yes, something going on that like my body was responding to that

stress.

1:21:56

Or something.

Yeah.

1:21:57

And when I told the doctor that she was like, oh, yeah, that definitely could have erased it.

Needless to say that that was like, I was miserable for two weeks.

1:22:05

I was just like, anxious and freaking out.

And I was like, I'm done, Like, I'm done doing this.

1:22:11

And I was there.

I just turned 39, and I told my doctor I was like, I'm planning.

1:22:17

I was planning to run the New York City Marathon this fall.

I know that everything looks good now.

1:22:22

If you were me, would you do you think it's fine to wait a little bit?

And she was like, yeah, go run the marathon.

1:22:28

Go do it.

And so in the meantime, I decided to find a doctor here and consult with them.

1:22:35

And they were like, if you're done having kids and you're about to turn 40, I would do it.

Now you're talking about a hysterectomy, correct?

1:22:46

Yeah, sorry.

And because there's multiple schools of thoughts there with a hysterectomy because you're not.

1:22:52

So really I needed to get an oophorectomy.

I've never heard of that.

1:22:56

Getting my ovaries OK, It's it's getting your ovaries removed because my risk for uterine cancer is

or cervical cancer is just normal.

1:23:05

It's like what anybody else's risk would be.

But my risk for ovarian cancer is high, so I really only had to get the ovaries out, which is less

1:23:15

intense surgery.

It's laparoscopic.

1:23:18

But I was like, the ovaries are what cause your hormones to change.

Losing your ovaries, you're losing, you're going into surgical menopause.

1:23:27

So getting rid of the uterus doesn't put you into menopause.

But I'm like, get it out.

1:23:33

Like I don't need it.

If I don't need it, take it out.

1:23:36

Yeah.

Because I don't need to have that in my body anymore.

1:23:39

Yeah.

So I got, I ended up getting a full hysterectomy and hypherectomy.

1:23:43

So I got to take the fallopian tubes out, all that.

And so now I take 2 milligrams of estrogen every day because it's a big thing beyond the menopause

1:23:55

symptoms.

You feel like externally, like hot flashes and a little bit of tiredness and weight gain, things

1:24:01

like that.

You lose your bone density and you lose your heart isn't as protected.

1:24:07

So I take the supplemental estrogen to protect my bones and my heart.

Gotcha.

1:24:13

And not experience those outward symptoms as well.

It's been really good though.

1:24:18

Like I was really scared and just like sad about it way more than the mastectomy.

I was scared for the mastectomy surgery, but I was really scared about this because I felt like it

1:24:32

was like, oh, that you're really changing.

Right.

1:24:35

It feels a lot more intense.

Not that a mastectomy, yeah, like, isn't, but it's like inside with all your other stuff.

1:24:42

And yeah, the emotions tied to that, Yeah.

Yeah, this is it.

1:24:46

You're done.

There's no more like, uh oh, what if I'm pregnant days.

1:24:49

Yeah, there's no more any of that.

And it just felt really final.

1:24:56

Yeah.

But I don't feel any different, honestly.

1:24:59

I really don't.

I do get sad sometimes.

1:25:01

If I see a family of five.

I'm like, what if that could have been us?

1:25:05

What if we could have had?

Five.

1:25:06

I can't even imagine.

Yeah.

1:25:08

I know, but like it's just I see.

I understand.

1:25:12

That and I would have had a fifth kid.

My health anxieties really kept me from that, though.

1:25:18

I was like, I can't do this.

I can't emotionally handle postpartum again.

1:25:25

Yeah.

So yeah, that's like the story in a nutshell, with me taking all of my female parts out of my body.

1:25:31

And what did you do for your boobs?

Did you get reconstructive surgery?

1:25:36

Yeah.

OK.

1:25:37

And like implants or how does that work?

Yeah.

1:25:40

Yeah, I had implants.

I have implants.

1:25:42

I had everything removed.

And then I kept my nipples though, and I and then I had because you can choose to do that if you,

1:25:52

even if you have breast cancer, you depending on where it is, you can choose to do that.

Some people it's too close or maybe it's too aggressive and the doctors recommend not doing that.

1:26:01

Yeah, because some people just have a lump, even just have a lumpectomy.

So I chose to keep my nipples.

1:26:08

And that was a big talking point with me and my mom.

My mom convinced me to because she had gone.

1:26:14

Through it, yeah, I can't because then it's like, then do they replace?

Can they give you?

1:26:20

Can they build nipples for you?

And they can put tattoos on and yeah, kind of like twist the skin and do something they interesting

1:26:27

they can do.

It it's just not the same.

1:26:29

Yeah, they can.

Do, obviously.

1:26:30

It's not the same.

Or you could choose to just have your implants and just have it just your skin without that.

1:26:37

But and that is like an extra layer of concern though.

Like over the years I've been like, oh gosh, I did this and now what if I get cancer like right

1:26:44

there because leaving them behind gives you leave a little bit of tissue behind.

So yeah, I had expanders for three months and then they did the exchange surgery and that was like

1:26:57

that you go in and they you go into the plastic surgery and they like fill you up to expand your

about that.

1:27:03

That's so interesting.

Yeah.

1:27:06

And then they exchange them out and now, yeah, it's been great.

If I could go back, I would have gone bigger, but I was like 15 lbs lighter than I am now because I

1:27:16

was just a young whippersnapper.

Yeah.

1:27:20

This is my settled adult weight.

I think this is where my body probably is meant to be, but at the time I was so tiny anything felt

1:27:28

like a lot.

Compared to what?

1:27:29

I yeah, yeah, that's hard.

If I could get them swapped out, but I'm not going to put myself through surgery.

1:27:35

Just for that, yeah.

Eventually I'll have to get them swapped out anyway, so I'll go up a little bit when I do that in

1:27:41

five years.

Yeah, I know.

1:27:43

I don't know if you know this, but I have implants and I yeah, I did it because not cancer related,

but because I wanted to, after having kids, just wanted to make them not yeah look like they were.

1:27:57

They sucked.

The life, yeah.

1:27:58

And I didn't even.

Life stuck.

1:28:00

Out of them I didn't even breastfeed either and but I just had anyway like we could.

Yeah, but if you pop.

1:28:04

I pumped and just I was like, I really would like to like him again.

That would be nice.

1:28:10

Be deflated.

Yeah.

1:28:11

So I did that and then for you because I wanted to and my best friend did as well.

I call her my breast friend.

1:28:17

Now to be funny.

Listen, any woman that has had babies that doesn't look like they had babies and those boobs has had

1:28:25

it done.

Right.

1:28:25

And when I I was like, open to talking about it, I found a ton of other people that I had no idea.

Oh, yeah.

1:28:31

And you're like, oh, yeah, I didn't know it was so normal.

And I just hate that there's a stigma because it's if you don't, if you are able to change it and

1:28:38

you want to change it, you can.

Yeah, whatever.

1:28:42

For sure.

Anyway.

1:28:43

But my health anxiety, I can relate to you.

I'm a hypochondriac.

1:28:49

If I have a headache, I'm like, great, I have a brain tumor.

I don't understand how you interview all these people with all these scary sicknesses.

1:28:57

I have stayed away from that over the years.

I can't.

1:29:00

I don't do well talking about it.

And so I really stay away from those stories sometimes just because it's selfishly not good for.

1:29:06

My yeah, yeah.

I just feel like that.

1:29:09

I don't know why it doesn't bother me so much.

I think part of it's the educational stuff, like if I can learn and have more information about what

1:29:16

to look for and how things happen, like maybe that's helpful to me.

But yeah, I don't know.

1:29:21

I feel like I'll always have that kind of anxiety.

Sometimes, like less is more, though.

1:29:26

I think that's why I don't.

Sometimes I don't like, especially with the BRCA stuff where I haven't made it.

1:29:30

Like I talk about it, but I don't like some people like it's all over all the stuff and like they

talk about the time and I do talk about it, but I don't want that to be like a defining thing.

1:29:41

Sure, yes.

About me.

1:29:43

Yeah.

And I don't want to think about it all the time.

1:29:47

And I think knowledge is power, but sometimes less can be more.

Like sometimes it's OK to just not keep searching and investing.

1:29:56

I don't know.

You want to be smart, but also I don't want to obsess.

1:30:00

This is what I'm saying.

I think I'm just so lucky.

1:30:02

I love my doctor that I have here and I just feel like that gives me such a Peace of Mind.

Like I'd have my annual physicals and all the things that I'm supposed to do and I trust them.

1:30:11

And if anything's weird, then I go and they'll test me.

And she's like the same where she's, if it makes you feel better, you can do this.

1:30:18

And I sometimes will be like, OK, let's do that.

And sometimes I'll be like, I'll just wait.

1:30:22

If it comes back then I'll.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

1:30:26

For sure.

Yeah.

1:30:27

So, well, thank you for sharing all of that.

I feel like sadly a lot of women can really and probably even men listening to who have a partner or

1:30:34

spouse that's gone through a scare or who has gone through cancer.

It's, it's interesting too, to talk about to your kids because like when I had my surgery, like they

1:30:46

were all old enough to know like the first time it was like, I just had one kid that was like 1 1/2.

Yeah.

1:30:51

The second time, like when I had my hysterectomy, I guess it was almost two years ago now.

They're all my big ones especially like mom, why is mom in the hospital?

1:31:01

Like why is mom having surgery so?

Yeah.

1:31:05

And they'll all have to get tested for it.

Yeah, eventually, yeah.

1:31:08

Yeah, I know with my surgery, I was it was not a crazy recovery, but you're I can't pick you up for

a little while.

1:31:14

The deal.

And it was thankfully they were young enough to where it didn't, it wasn't like they were 16.

1:31:20

Because I that's another thing, especially being a mom of girls in particular, it's like you don't

want them to have this unhealthy relationship with their body and think that they have to go pay and

1:31:28

fix it.

And it's like that.

1:31:29

They need to do you.

Don't have to do that, but if you're able to and you want to.

1:31:33

OK so at least I feel like I can come from a place I remember positivity if they ever ask.

Totally.

1:31:40

You know how to explain that.

I remember when I was in college and my mom got breast implants.

1:31:48

This was before she knew she had BRCA, and she was.

Alone.

1:31:51

Like 30.

Eight or Hey, yeah.

1:31:53

She was so young because they had us so young and that we were like at the beach.

And I had looked at her and I was like, did you get any bra?

1:32:01

And she was like, no.

And I was like, did you get fake boobs?

1:32:04

And she was like, yes.

So then she, and then she found out she had BRCA like 10 years later and had to like, it actually

1:32:12

made her surgery.

She didn't have to do expanders, though, because she already was stretched.

1:32:16

Yeah.

From having implants that she just swapped out, got all the tissue removed, took those implants out,

1:32:23

swapped the new ones in.

That's why, Yeah, even my mom did that 25 years ago.

1:32:30

Wild.

Before we move on, I do wanna talk about your work with the Donna Foundation too, because all this

1:32:35

experience and the work that you do with the Donna Foundation down in, are they based in Florida or

is that just work?

1:32:40

Yeah.

So tell us about the Donna Foundation and the work that you do there and what that means to you

1:32:45

after having this experience.

Yeah, so the Donna Foundation is an organization that helps people who are walking through a breast

1:32:52

cancer diagnosis.

They have a care line, so they help people who are like in crisis and don't know what to do.

1:32:58

And then they also help with financial assistance for medical bills, transportation, things like

that.

1:33:04

It's a really special community.

The founder is a three time breast cancer survivor, and she's now actually the mayor of

1:33:11

Jacksonville.

She's the first female mayor of Jacksonville, which is the largest city in Florida.

1:33:16

Yeah.

She's so badass and just such a genuine, really special human being.

1:33:23

Their motto is love over fear.

Love over fear.

1:33:26

I was reached out to a third party who was doing marketing for them to come to their race back in

2018.

1:33:32

And I was like, yeah, you might not even know this about me, but I am very high risk for breast

cancer.

1:33:39

I had a prophylactic mastectomy and it really was a good fit, and now I've been going there every

year since 2018.

1:33:46

I've raised money for them, but mostly I'm an advocate for the race that they have every year, which

is the Donna Marathon in February, which is an amazing race experience.

1:33:58

The coolest course you got to come running?

I want to so bad, so cool.

1:34:01

Is it the first weekend in February usually?

Yeah, it's yeah, yeah.

1:34:05

And you stay in Jacksonville Beach and it's, I don't know, I just, I feel at home there cuz I've

been so many times and I just know the area so well now.

1:34:12

But yeah, so I love that I can advocate for them and spread awareness about what they're doing and

be a part of that race every year.

1:34:21

Yeah.

That's so amazing.

1:34:23

I always love watching all the content that comes out of that weekend.

It does look really special.

1:34:28

Fun.

Yeah.

1:34:29

Just come stay with me as long as my family doesn't come because I go by myself.

Yeah, that's fun.

1:34:34

That's even better.

So someday, OK, I will come just.

1:34:39

And then you'll come to Vegas.

We'll just we'll swap.

1:34:42

One year.

I'll do Donna Foundation race.

1:34:45

Yeah, we'll make it happen.

Yeah, got it.

1:34:47

All right, so we're going to do something special for episode 100 and we are going to play Never

Have I Ever Runner Edition.

1:34:54

OK.

Are you ready?

1:34:56

Yes.

Do you want to go first?

1:34:57

Yes, I'm going ready.

OK, Yep.

1:35:00

Never have I ever been on the cover of a running magazine.

I have been on the cover of Running Magazine in 2014.

1:35:13

I remember when that came out and I was just like, Oh my God, you're on the cover of Women's Women's

Running.

1:35:20

Yeah, that's what's funny about that is my cover art for my podcast is from that photo shoot.

So if y'all think why does she look like a baby child in her in her artwork, it's because I was, I

1:35:34

guess I was 30.

Yeah, I was thirty.

1:35:37

I was pregnant with Louis though.

I was like 14 weeks, 15 weeks pregnant.

1:35:42

Yeah, I was pregnant.

I did not know that.

1:35:44

I know.

I remember telling them I was like, I'm pregnant.

1:35:46

Is that going to be OK?

It wasn't kind of annoying though, because you're.

1:35:50

I was pregnant and I was like, not really showing, but like in that stage where you feel just like,

yeah, So I'm like, it'd be better if I was like 6 months pregnant and I could feel like, you know,

1:36:00

cute with my bump.

Yeah.

1:36:01

Or, you know, totally.

So yeah.

1:36:04

OK.

Yeah.

1:36:06

Never have I ever DNF DA race.

OK, so I technically haven't, but it was the Philadelphia Marathon.

1:36:16

I don't remember what year I did that.

I can't remember.

1:36:19

I'd have to look at my spreadsheet, but I was like super sick.

I did Chicago that year, and so Chicago's October, Philadelphia's November, and they used to have

1:36:29

the half marathon and the marathon happening at the same time.

Now it's two different days, I believe.

1:36:34

So I like got up, got ready, went to the start line with all my girls, my friends that I was with

and I was like, I felt awful.

1:36:43

And I was like, well, I'll just push through it.

And they like have it where kind of like the Carmel marathon where you can choose to, you know,

1:36:50

you're stopping going one way to stop going the other way to do 26.2.

Like, I just remember I was so sick that I, I got so cold that I picked up a dirty shirt from the

1:37:00

side of the road and put it on.

I was like, so miserable.

1:37:03

It was awful.

And so, yeah.

1:37:05

And the chicken broth at that finish line, like saved my life I'm pretty sure.

Wait, so you.

1:37:10

Finished the race, I finished the half.

I did the half of the half, not the full.

1:37:14

So I like technically like IDNFD my full marathon.

But like, you knew, you knew at the start line you were gonna do the half.

1:37:20

Well, once I realized how easy it was gonna be to make that decision, I was like, that's probably

the decision I'm gonna make.

1:37:27

Because if I would have been forced to run the whole thing, I mean, I probably could have, but I

would just, yeah, probably would have been even more sick.

1:37:34

And it was like right before Thanksgiving, I remember I met my niece for the first time and couldn't

hold her cuz I was like, so sick.

1:37:40

Anyway.

So yeah.

1:37:41

So technically you can count that as ADNF or like, you know, just a pivot, but I got a medal.

You can call it a pivot.

1:37:48

You can call it.

I stepped down to the half.

1:37:50

Yeah, yeah.

And I still like it sucks that that happened.

1:37:53

I remember beating myself up like, you know, but what can you do?

I was so sick.

1:37:59

You're sick.

1:37:59

Yeah, right.

OK.

1:38:01

Never have I ever used a porta potty during a race.

Oh, really?

1:38:08

Yeah, swear.

How?

1:38:10

I don't know.

I don't know Lindsay, but I my God, I have done so many races and I have never used a porta potty.

1:38:20

Wow, that's crazy to me.

During a race, like I've used, I've used porta potty plenty of times, Yeah, like.

1:38:25

Yeah, I've used lots during races for sure.

Cuz I'm like if I'm like uncomfortable, even if it's just AP, I'm like, I'm just gonna do this

1:38:35

really quick.

Yeah.

1:38:36

I'm trying to think if I've ever done it during like APR race and I don't think I have during like

APR race but like races like if I'm running a marathon and I'm not like trying to PRI will for sure

1:38:49

stop and use the bathroom if I need to.

Yeah, I know.

1:38:52

OK, never have I ever raced in super shoes.

Really.

1:38:59

Yeah, Someone needs to give this girl some super shoes.

Do you have a pair?

1:39:03

I mean, yes, I have two pair and they were gifted to me, right?

I was pair of Solomon super shoes and I have a pair of Puma.

1:39:12

I actually have the Puma super shoes that Dakota Lindworm ran in the Olympics in, but I don't run

fast right now and I'm like I don't, I'm afraid it'll like mess with my feet and like my Achilles

1:39:25

and stuff if I'm not using them for the right reasons.

So I'm, I'm holding on to them and I'm gonna, I, if I decide to run a race, I'll wear them.

1:39:34

But like, yeah, I've never, I've actually only ran around the block in a pair one time.

That's the only time I've ever worn them.

1:39:41

Yeah, so I have.

I've gone through two pairs and I've only run in one kind, which is the Saucony Pro Elite.

1:39:47

Is that what's called the threes?

I've done the twos and the threes and I only use them for races and then recently got the advice

1:39:54

that you should run in them more than just races just.

To make sure, you know, yeah.

1:39:58

And I was kind of like, oh.

To do like a couple tempo runs, right, Just to like a speed set, yeah.

1:40:03

You know, just to make sure, like I run, I don't know, I guess I run in a few different brands of

shoes, but mostly Saucony now.

1:40:09

So I feel like anyway, and you've seen mine, I've bedazzled the hell out of them.

So they're like beautiful and I don't want to like ruin them.

1:40:15

So no.

Anyway, but I know well and you don't want to run too many miles in them because they're expensive

1:40:19

and you don't want to have to buy more.

Yeah, I think I would for sure do at least one of them.

1:40:23

My long runs in them though.

Yeah, Yeah.

1:40:24

Well, I got them when I worked at the running store.

Well, the first pair, I should say.

1:40:28

Yeah.

And that was really helpful because it was not as expensive.

1:40:31

At that 40%.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:40:33

So OK.

Never have I ever puked after a run.

1:40:38

I have done that.

Marathon or track meets or both?

1:40:42

Half like half marathon.

OK, yeah, yeah, I actually, I remember it was after the Bloomington half.

1:40:52

I think I had two kids and at the time I didn't feel like I was running very fast.

But now looking back, I think I ran like 135 or something, maybe 136.

1:41:02

And it Bloomington is like hilly, so hilly.

Yeah.

1:41:06

So like I, I really like full scent that thing.

Like I don't know what kind of shape I was really in, but like I was and I crossed that finish line.

0:00

Wow.

1:41:17

Yeah.

So I, I've definitely done that before and I've done that like when I was younger at like after like

1:41:23

a hard workout.

Yeah, yeah, I've only dry heaved, which is a recent thing actually.

1:41:28

Yeah, I mean, if you push yourself hard enough, your body's like I.

Know and I was I mean I remember the first time I dry heaved I was like holy shit like what in the

1:41:35

hell is this feeling like I've.

Never been hard.

1:41:37

Yeah.

And then I was like, well, that's fun.

1:41:40

Yeah, I've definitely done that in front of Jed, our Executive Director, more than once now, because

at the end of Monumental, I'm just like, give me a second.

1:41:47

Well, no, wait, at the end of monumental, so many people threw up that year.

I don't know what was in the gel, their gels, and it was like elite people.

1:41:57

So like they were probably using their own gels, but I've never seen so many people throw up at a

finish line.

1:42:01

That was that was weird.

That was like a strange event.

1:42:04

Yeah, I don't know.

Some in the water, I don't know.

1:42:07

Yeah.

OK, so it was.

1:42:08

Just it was random.

Yeah.

1:42:10

OK.

Never have I ever.

1:42:14

I have a few more you want me to go?

OK, Yeah, you go.

1:42:17

OK, never have I ever paced a marathon.

Oh, I have paced 1/2 marathon.

1:42:24

OK, so so have I.

I've never paced a full marathon.

1:42:28

Yeah, I've never paced a full marathon.

I paced.

1:42:31

I've only paced 1/2 marathon.

I paced the indie women's half.

1:42:34

OK, that's the Oliver.

Had me pacing 140.

1:42:39

Oh hot damn.

Damn is right.

1:42:42

It was like I was like, OK, we're going to be running seven.

I think that's like 7 seven 40s or something.

1:42:49

Like that, yeah, that sounds right because my PR is 143 and that's like a 750 pace.

So it's kind of yeah, yeah, that's cooking it.

1:42:57

Was fast I it was fun though.

I had a little group with me and then at the end I got to run, I think her name was Debbie.

1:43:06

I got to run her in.

And I don't know if it was like a lifetime PR or like masters PR because I think she was probably in

1:43:14

her 50s, early 50s maybe.

OK.

1:43:16

But yeah, I mean, she had a really great race and we ran together the whole our little group split

up and it was just me and her at the end.

1:43:22

And it was really cool to experience her crossing that finish line.

And then I saw her like at the airport heading to Boston one year, like kind of kept in touch a

1:43:31

little bit here.

So cool.

1:43:32

Yeah.

Yeah, I what did you pace?

1:43:34

I paced the Indy Women's, which is now the Indiana Women's Running Festival, and it's now over Labor

Day.

1:43:40

I was like, which weekend?

Labor Day weekend.

1:43:42

So it's August 30th this year.

And so last year I did it.

1:43:44

I paced the year before.

I ran with my friend Christy D, and she was pacing for the first time.

1:43:51

And so I kind of was like her shadow.

Yeah.

1:43:53

So I ran the race with her.

And then so the next year I was like, I feel like I could pace, like that's something I could do.

1:43:59

And so I did the 155 and that was great.

Like, that was a perfect sweet spot.

1:44:04

I remember my running coach Rachel did the 1:50 and she was kind of like, oh, that's like a little,

you know?

1:44:09

Yeah.

For like the first time, you're just, you know, I didn't want to mess it up.

1:44:13

You want.

It to be real healthy, like you want it to be like a real Yeah.

1:44:17

I mean at this point in my life I feel like I would want to do like 2 hours.

Yeah, two hours is Trina Radebush.

1:44:22

Like I swear at every race 2 or 4.

Awkward.

1:44:25

Yeah, like she just.

Paces all the marathons in the half marathons.

1:44:28

Yeah, Yeah.

I think that that would feel really good.

1:44:31

I mean, in some way, if you're like training still, you want to run it, you want to pace like not

super far from like your, you know, but you can't be, can't be too close.

1:44:45

But if it's too slow for like what you're used to running, then it doesn't feel natural.

So like for me right now I feel like a 9 minute mile would feel.

1:44:53

Really good, yeah.

Healthy, yeah.

1:44:55

Yeah, Christy did the 210 the year I ran at her, and that felt OK.

I mean, this is no offense to anybody who runs 210, no, it doesn't matter.

1:45:02

But for me, that felt slow and it felt like I was doing a disservice to the, you know, the group

because I kept wanting to go faster.

1:45:09

And so that was why I feel like, yeah, 155 was great.

I still got really excited, but I like, just had to rein it in.

1:45:17

And I ran with like the entire IU women's, which team, the rowing team, they all came.

And so I, they were in my group and it was so fun.

1:45:25

I really.

Enjoyed that?

1:45:27

And my friend Becky, who I run with ran with me too, which was nice, kind of like I did with

Christy.

1:45:30

So that was helpful as.

Well, that's so fun.

1:45:33

Yeah.

My husband Glenn used to pace the 310 group at Carmel.

1:45:37

Can you imagine?

I'm like, that's so fast.

1:45:39

That's like Kelby Loughner, who I just interviewed.

She used to pace.

1:45:43

Yeah, 3:15 it's like.

Jesus Christ.

1:45:47

Yeah, it's crazy.

Being comfortable at that pace is wild, wild.

1:45:51

To me, yeah, for sure.

So yeah.

1:45:53

OK.

Did you think of another one?

1:45:54

Yeah, never have I ever used a Morton gel.

Oh really?

1:46:01

That's shocking to me.

They're gross, kind of.

1:46:04

Have you, do you, have you used them?

OK, so I have because I had to see what all the fuss was about because I still haven't run Boston.

1:46:10

But I was like, OK, my coach uses them.

Like I'll buy some on the feed and give it a shot.

1:46:15

And the ones without caffeine, the way I describe it is it kind of tastes like marshmallow almost,

but like the consistency of it is fine.

1:46:24

It's like almost like a not chunky, but it's like a just Jelly.

Like it's more like a Jelly consistency than the goo, if that makes sense.

1:46:32

Like it like chunks apart, which is great.

I feel like you can kind of get it down like the jello shot, which is fine.

1:46:38

It it's fine.

Not my favorite thing, but the caffeine ones I can't.

1:46:42

They taste really gross to me.

I don't know what it is, but it has, like, this chemically flavor to me.

1:46:47

Yeah.

So I was just like, well, for the price, if I don't love them, like, I'm going to stick with my

1:46:51

Maple syrup.

Thank you very much.

1:46:52

Check in, Anderson.

Yay.

1:46:55

Pure fuel shout out.

Shout out.

1:46:57

Do you are you trying to qualify for Boston?

Not this year.

1:47:01

I've decided this year is more of like a running for fun kind of a year.

But, you know, I'm almost 40 and so part of me with them just making it harder and harder feels like

1:47:09

I just have to be 40 before I'm really going to put in the work because I'm just kind of on the

edge.

1:47:14

I think I well, I shouldn't say.

I think I know that I can you.

1:47:17

Can, but it's.

Just like, OK, can I just give myself a little grace and go after it when I have a little bit more

1:47:22

right?

It's just gonna get harder though, is the other problem.

1:47:25

So I don't know.

I hope so.

1:47:27

Yeah.

I mean, eventually we all slow down.

1:47:29

I mean, I don't think that you're anywhere near that, especially given I feel like you've gotten

more serious about your running in the recent years.

1:47:35

So it's not like you have like 20 years of like pounding really hard.

I mean, you've run for a lot of years, but like, to me it seems like you've gotten more serious.

1:47:44

Recently I have, well, I just started using a coach.

I started working with Rachel maybe 3 or 4 years ago now.

1:47:50

It's been, I mean, a long time, but then I finally learned how to train the right way and that made

all the difference for me.

1:47:55

Part of it was coming back after babies and then the next phase of that was then, OK, now I'm going

to go for the speed again.

1:48:01

And so last year I PR D my full marathon.

The year before that, when you were at the finish line of Monumental, I PR D my half marathon.

1:48:07

So that's why I was kind of like, OK, like I'm getting faster.

And I told Rachel I want to keep getting faster, but I also want to enjoy it and not put so much

1:48:15

pressure on myself where I like burnout because like, running is clearly something I love and I

don't want that to change so.

1:48:21

You don't want it to be ruined by obsessing and all that.

Yeah, exactly.

1:48:25

OK, I'm going to ask you now the end of the podcast questions.

I feel like that was fun.

1:48:29

But yeah, that was fun.

I wait, I thought of one more.

1:48:32

You did OK.

But I already know your answer.

1:48:34

I was just going to say never have I ever used a running coach.

Yeah, right.

1:48:38

Well, and then you are a coach, which is I can't believe that.

Yeah, that's why it's.

1:48:42

Because I'm it's because I don't like people to tell me what to do.

I do, and I like the accountability, even though I don't really need it.

1:48:51

Like, I just like that somebody else is looking at it.

It helps, yeah.

1:48:54

No, I think that's why most people do.

I just like, I don't wanna be.

1:48:59

This is why I work for myself.

I don't want so.

1:49:01

I can do what I want.

Tell me what my?

1:49:02

Schedule needs to be.

Right, right.

1:49:04

That's fair enough.

Yeah.

1:49:05

I feel like a good coach will work with you too, though.

Like if you're like, for sure.

1:49:09

But you know, But I get it.

That's fair.

1:49:11

That's fine.

Plus, you've gone through all the necessary training to be a coach, so at least you know what to do.

0:00

Yeah, I know what I would need to do for sure.

1:49:18

Yeah, yeah.

For sure.

1:49:21

OK, end of the podcast questions are?

OK.

1:49:25

What is your favorite running song and or mantra?

OK, my favorite running song.

1:49:34

I'm gonna look at my Spotify.

Let me give you 2 answers.

1:49:37

OK?

I really like memories.

1:49:41

David.

Guetta.

1:49:43

Guetta.

Kid Cudi.

1:49:44

Yeah.

Do you know what song I'm talking about?

1:49:46

I'm trying to hear it.

Oh, I love the beat of that one that's on my marathon playlist.

1:49:55

Yeah, yeah, that one.

And then my next one is.

1:50:01

This is called My First Song by Jay-Z.

I'm gonna play it.

1:50:04

Y'all wanna know why you don't stop?

Y'all wanna know why you don't?

1:50:11

I don't think I've ever heard that song.

I know it's like a, it's like a deep cut.

1:50:15

It's this is so random.

It's called my first song.

1:50:18

It's about like working as hard now as you worked when you first got started, like when you were

like hustling so hard to try to, you know, launch your podcast or run a fast marathon or whatever.

1:50:28

It's like still putting in that work now.

I like that.

1:50:31

That's what it's about.

And I was listening to Sue Bird on NPR podcast with Terry Gross, and Terry Gross asked Sue Bird what

1:50:43

was her hype song.

And she said my first song by Jay-Z.

1:50:48

And so I was at the airport travelling to Bayshore to do an event there to the Bayshore Marathon.

And I listened to that song the entire way to Traverse City.

1:51:01

And I was like this, I'm obsessed with this.

And it kind of like gave me good energy to like prep for.

1:51:07

I was interviewing Des Linden live at the Bayshore Marathon.

Yeah, no big deal.

1:51:11

And it gave me like energy to like bring as much research and prep for that interview as I used to

do at the beginning.

1:51:19

So that's that's the other one that's.

A really good one, I like that a lot.

1:51:24

Alex, your playlist.

Yeah, I will actually, cuz I have a playlist for this podcast as well.

1:51:28

So when people give me their favorite running song, I add them to the playlist.

And then when I listen to that playlist, which I've been trying not to listen to music as much,

1:51:35

which is good, but when I do, I'll put that playlist on and then I can think of the person whose

song it was.

1:51:40

Well, if I don't remember then I have to go look it up cuz it'll drive me nuts.

But it's really fun I.

1:51:44

Love that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:51:46

That's.

And then in terms of mantras, when I listened to an episode of a podcast you were on, Glenn told you

1:51:52

something that I really liked, which was don't think, just run.

So that's a good one for people to tuck away.

1:51:57

But what is your personal?

Do you have a personal mantra or mantras you have to say to yourself?

1:52:02

What podcast was that?

That was on the, That was on the alley on the run.

1:52:06

On Alley.

OK, Oh, that's funny because I don't remember that at all.

1:52:10

I don't think I can go back and listen.

I'd I'd cringe I think.

1:52:12

It's it's a while ago.

You know, hearing.

1:52:14

Yourself.

I know, yeah.

1:52:15

Yeah, hearing yourself in old interviews, I'm like, I think, I think I just said go, go, go.

Just like just just go, just go.

1:52:26

One thing I really like that actually Scott Faubel shared on my podcast a long time ago was he says

like be like water.

1:52:37

And I always talk about this now, like if I'm on stage and the Expo, I bring this up to encourage

the runners because it's one of the best things I've ever in all my years interviewing pros have

1:52:48

ever heard someone say just like be smooth, like water.

Like water calms you down and also is just like a smooth, like think about like a Creek.

1:52:57

And so if you think about that while you're running, like I can just like be smooth, like rot water.

And I just try to tell, just like, relax, you know?

1:53:04

Yeah.

Yeah, pretty good.

1:53:06

Yeah.

Just go, go, go, go.

1:53:08

I'd say that's my yeah.

Like if I'm, if I'm on the treadmill, I, I mean, I haven't done speed work in a really long time,

1:53:13

but if I'm on the treadmill, like doing intervals or something, I will just like verbally like yell

at yourself, Lindsay.

1:53:20

Like I just tell, Yeah, yeah, I do.

That's funny.

1:53:23

OK, this reminds me to ask you briefly too about your 70 Hard and your version of it, because I did

a strength class or a boot camp yesterday or the day before, day before, and I had to do burpees and

1:53:33

I thought of you.

So tell people your modified version of 75 Hard.

1:53:38

Well, I've always been intrigued by it and I'm like, but this is also the reason I was nervous to do

it is also one of the reasons why I've never done like any sort of like structured diet because I

1:53:50

just like, I don't want to obsess over anything.

I want to live my freaking life.

1:53:54

But I also feel like there's something really cool about having a goal and like sticking to to a

commitment, which you're all doing if you're marathon training.

1:54:03

Yeah, that's your commitment.

Yeah.

1:54:05

So so the 75 hard though if it for anybody listening is like you have to work out twice a day for 45

minutes.

1:54:13

One of those times has to be outside.

Nope, doesn't matter the weather.

1:54:16

You take a picture every day too for your progress.

I'm also not doing that part.

1:54:24

And then you have to stick to a certain diet and no alcohol.

So I'm doing the 245 minutes.

1:54:31

I'm committing to the 245 minutes section segments of working out very, very limited alcohol.

I haven't said I'm going to give it up completely and just trying to eat sensibly.

1:54:42

I mean, I'm not sticking to a diet.

Isn't there a water aspect?

1:54:45

Yeah, you're supposed to drink like a gallon of water or something crazy too.

You're supposed to drink a ton of water, which I try to drink a lot of water, but on top of that,

1:54:53

which I guess it can be included in my second 45 minutes is I'm, I'm also committed to doing 50

birthdays a day, which it isn't that hard to do guys.

1:55:03

It's really not like if you just break it up into sets of 10 throughout the day and it keeps you

awake.

1:55:09

It like wakes you up, you know, like if you're feeling like a little bit like slumping around at

like 2, it's that time of day where you start feeling tired midday.

1:55:17

Get up off your butt and do 10 burpees.

Oh man I hate burpees so much.

1:55:22

But I had to do 30 last night at 9:30 PM and I ran out of time to do my second workout.

So I just went on a walk at like at 9:45 last night, like a mile and a half.

1:55:34

I so I didn't do 45 minutes.

But that's my other thing is like it doesn't have to be exact.

1:55:40

It just has to be an effort and.

So I think that's.

1:55:43

Fair.

A second effort was there.

1:55:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I like that.

1:55:47

It's a casual Yeah 75 hard.

Well, as you know, I'm doing no alcohol for Lent, so so far it's been going really well, but I just.

0:00

How's it going?

1:55:56

Fine, it's just fine.

I just don't drink and that's fine.

1:55:59

And then when people ask me like, why aren't you drinking?

I can just be like, because I gave it up for Lent, which is easier than being like, because I don't

1:56:04

want to.

And then people are like why?

1:56:06

And I'm like, because I'm old and I feel like shit if I have two drinks, you know, so.

I know.

1:56:11

Yeah, I so this will be Friday.

This Friday will be two weeks since I had any alcohol because I think Lent started Lent.

1:56:19

It would be two weeks today, right?

Yeah, cuz it's Wednesday.

1:56:22

Yeah.

And Ash Wednesday is the start of Lent, right?

1:56:24

That's right.

And so, yeah, I've been two weeks.

1:56:26

That's pretty good.

Look at us.

1:56:27

Cuz I had a drink that Friday and then actually I went to church on Sunday and they, he talked about

get like why you give something up for Lent.

1:56:36

And I really liked the way he, I liked the way he talked about it.

And I was like, oh, I feel like I'm holding on to this a little tight.

1:56:43

So I, I kind of like, I've kind of given it up.

I think I don't know if I'm going to go the full 40 days, but for instance on Friday one of my

1:56:51

friends is having a birthday party and I'm like will I have a couple drinks?

Those situations.

1:56:55

Are hard.

Maybe I'll bring, maybe I'll bring like a really good mocktail and like have some caffeine to feel

1:57:02

like a little jazzed up.

Yeah.

1:57:05

You know how you say like, oh you don't want to have caffeine like so it'll affect your sleep?

Well, guess what affects your freaking sleep?

1:57:10

Oh yeah, I know.

Yeah, alcohol for sure.

1:57:13

I'm like I think I think some caffeine at 10:00 PM is will probably affect my sleep less than like 3

drinks so.

1:57:20

Yeah, well, and now like we're so lucky here in Carmel.

We have a actually there's three locations now of a non alcoholic liquor store.

1:57:29

And so they have all the coolest brands of NA stuff that's helped me a ton.

And people are like, it's almost like cheating.

1:57:36

I'm like kinda but it's not alcoholic so but.

You're not.

1:57:40

Yeah.

You're not drinking the poison.

1:57:41

Yeah.

But also like, one of the perks of not drinking is not spending the money.

1:57:46

And so I feel like all these, like, craft mocktails, it's like, yeah, like I bought some stuff from

three.

1:57:52

Yeah, three spirits.

Yep.

1:57:54

And I really like it, but it was very expensive.

Yeah, it's like a bottle of booze.

1:57:58

Expensive.

Yeah, it was like 3.

1:58:01

I got 3 bottles that were very, not very big and I think it was like $100.

Yeah.

1:58:05

One of them is like a nightcap though, and it has like valerian root in it and like all these like

nice sleepy time things.

1:58:13

And so I, I think it and it feels like you're drinking like a whiskey, even though it doesn't

totally taste like whiskey.

1:58:19

You put like a big ice cube in it.

You just.

1:58:21

Bake it it's you know, and then you're you're tricking yourself into feeling like you're doing it

and then it becomes easier, I think.

1:58:27

But I'm going to keep you're.

Actually like something that's relaxing.

1:58:31

Yeah, I'm going to Key West with my husband during spring break for a night.

And so that's going to be tricky because we're going to be on a ferry for like 3 1/2 hours.

1:58:39

I would give it up for that.

You should give it up for that.

1:58:42

We'll see.

I mean, I'm not pressuring you to like, not follow, you know?

1:58:48

Jesus, your.

Feelings towards Len but I feel like Jesus would be like you should let loose on that day.

1:58:57

What would Jesus do?

He would let loose in Key West.

1:59:01

He.

Would he would drink wine.

1:59:04

OK.

And now second question, what is your next finish line or milestone?

1:59:09

My next finish line I am race announcing at the Blue Ridge Marathon and Roanoke, VA and so that is

my next finish line I'll be at.

1:59:20

Oh, when is that?

It is in mid-april.

1:59:22

It is like the week before Boston and then I'm not going to Boston, but I'm also race announcing a

Big Sur the following weekend.

1:59:28

Cool, yeah.

Yeah, and then after the after the weekend after that, I'll be an indie for the mini.

1:59:33

So it's like 3-3 or four weekends in a row are spoken for.

Yeah, if only Glenn would listen to this so I could say thank you, Glenn.

1:59:41

Thanks for holding down the floor.

Yeah, and thank you to my husband, who?

1:59:45

Doesn't he's fine?

I actually convinced.

1:59:47

I know I actually convinced him to.

We're gonna take, we're gonna take the family to Big Sur.

1:59:51

That's cool.

That's a good one I feel like.

1:59:53

Yeah, so then I don't feel so like, I mean, I want to take them because it'll be fun, but I also

like, I have a little bit of guilt.

2:00:00

Relieved.

For being on so much.

2:00:02

Because they'll get to come with.

And it's such a beautiful place.

2:00:05

Like I told my husband I was like, when else are we gonna take the kids to Big Sur?

Like we're just not.

2:00:11

So like, let's let's.

Do it.

2:00:12

Yeah, that's cool.

All fun.

2:00:14

Oh, this has been so fun.

I have no idea how long we recorded because we've done it in a few separate recordings, so it's

2:00:20

gonna be like, who knows how long?

Like your longest episode?

2:00:23

Longest episode.

I have only one that's been over two hours.

2:00:25

And that was recent, actually.

And it was an accident.

2:00:27

And it was a great episode.

It just was like, holy crap, how is it that long?

2:00:31

I'm not rich.

Roll so well, it's good for those long runs.

2:00:34

So thank you to everybody who listened to this, maybe during a run.

I hope it's for being here.

2:00:39

Yeah.

And happy running.

2:00:41

Happy 100 episodes.

If you enjoyed this 100th episode of Finish Lines and Milestones from Sandy Boy Productions, please

2:00:51

go share rate review.

You can find me on social media at Ally ALLYT.

2:00:57

Brett Brett, Ally T Brett under score runs.

Thank you so much for your support.

2:01:03

Thanks for listening.

Here's to the next 100 episodes.

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