Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 101: Chris Slater - Running Across the Sahara 🐪

March 28, 2025

Here's a link to listen to this week's episode.

Guest: Chris Slater @chrisslaterrr

Show Notes:

Chris Slater ⁠and I met through my friend, TJ Furman, who is not a runner but a former coworker of both of ours.

In this episode, sponsored by ⁠BITCHSTIX⁠, ⁠Pure Fuel ⁠and ⁠Previnex⁠, we talk about his journey from being a professional football player as a kid to dealing with a severe cocaine addiction, and ultimately finding his way to sobriety through running.

Highlights include: Chris's early football career; starting a nightclub promotions business in university; his struggle with cocaine addiction and road to recovery; beginning to run during COVID and completing isolated marathon challenges; participating in multiple major marathons including Brighton, London, and Manchester; achieving 52 marathons in 52 weeks in 2022; competing in the ⁠Marathon des Sables⁠ and finishing in the top 50; and his experiences with the ⁠UTMB⁠ ultra races. Chris also introduces his dog, Bobby, as part of his support system. Throughout, Ally and Chris discuss the discipline, mental strength, and training required for these remarkable achievements.

00:00 Introduction to Finish Lines and Milestones

00:23 ⁠Sponsorship⁠ and ⁠Upcoming Event⁠

01:45 Episode 101: New Beginnings with Video

03:30 Geography Lesson and International Guests

04:52 Conversation with Chris Slater Begins

05:17 Chris Slater's Background and Early Life

07:21 Football Career and Transition to University

15:30 Nightclub Business and Descent into Addiction

22:26 Struggles with Addiction and Path to Recovery

29:21 Running as a New Passion

33:56 Marathon Journey and Charity Work

44:37 Reflecting on Personal Bests and Lap Races

45:25 Major Marathons of 2023

45:41 Challenges of Marathon Entry and Lottery Systems

46:33 Future Marathon Goals and Ultra Running

47:28 Experiences from Major Marathons

50:59 Marathon Des Sables: The Ultimate Challenge

54:29 Training and Preparation for Ultra Marathons

01:02:04 The Mental and Physical Demands of Ultra Running

01:11:32 UTMB and Lessons Learned

01:17:44 Future Plans and Career Balance

01:20:59 Personal Life and Inspirations

01:23:44 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

⁠UK Newspaper article about Chris⁠

⁠Tickets to Indy Mini Event on 5/2⁠

Sponsor Details:

- ⁠⁠⁠Previnex⁠⁠⁠ - ALLY15 for 15% off your first order

- ⁠⁠⁠BITCHSTIX⁠⁠⁠ -ALLYB for 20% off your order

-⁠⁠⁠ Pure Fuel ⁠- FUEL20 for 20% off your order

Episode Transcript:

:00

This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast that celebrates the everyday runner.

0:10

I'm your host, Ally Brettnacher.

If you run, you are a runner and every runner has a story.

0:16

Join me each week as I share these stories and we cross finish lines and celebrate milestones

together.

0:24

This episode is brought to you by Bitch Sticks.

Bitch Sticks is a self-care brand that is also a call to action to transform a quote bad word into a

0:33

force of good.

Each year they donate to nonprofit organizations around the country that support survivors of

0:39

domestic violence and sexual assault.

All of their products are made with high quality ingredients, are cruelty free, and manufactured

0:47

right here in the USA.

If you are local to Indiana, know that they are an Indiana brand but can also be found in over 5000

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stores nationwide.

And of course you can shop on their website.

0:59

It is Bitch Sticks which is St. ix.com and you can use code Ally BALLYB at checkout for 20% off your

order at our upcoming event before the Indie Mini locally Bitch Sticks is a sponsor.

1:15

They will be adding their SPF 30 lip balm and their Quit your Bitch and Muscle rub into our goodie

bags.

1:21

They are also giving away an an athlete good luck gift set that comes with a couple lip balms, a big

bitch sticks with SPF 30 anti chafe and the Quit your Bitch and Muscle rub as well.

1:33

So stay tuned for that giveaway coming very soon.

And if you haven't gotten tickets to that event, it's going to sell out.

1:40

So make sure you go do that as well.

Thank you, Bitch Sticks for supporting this podcast and our event.

1:46

Hello and welcome to episode 1 O1.

This is Ali Bretnacher and if you tuned in last week for episode 100, you would have heard me say or

1:55

seen me say that I'm now doing video as part of this podcast.

I am starting from the bottom, really not sure what I'm doing, but apparently the rule is you have

2:05

to have video if you have a podcast now.

So here I am doing my best.

2:08

I did get a new computer, which is going to be very helpful in the speed at which I can work.

But I've decided that I'm not going to get ready and put on make up for this because I just can't.

2:18

And I know that you don't care, so it's cool, here I am.

And if you're not watching, you're probably better off for it.

2:25

But we're doing video now, so here we go.

In case you didn't already know, have launched ticket sales for an event that I am Co hosting with

2:34

Lindsay Hyne, who's the founder of Sandy Boy Productions and hosts the I'll Have Another podcast

with Lindsay Hyne nearly at 600 episodes.

2:42

Anyway, we launched our tickets a couple weeks ago.

We are almost 3/4 of the way it's sold out.

2:47

So we've sold 70 tickets or so.

We only have 100 spots available, so if you're listening to this and you're local or you're coming

2:53

in town for the Indianapolis Mini Marathon, make sure you check out the link in the show notes or in

this video to get a ticket before they're gone because they will be gone.

3:02

This week I was introduced to my new friend Chris Slater through a former coworker of mine, TJ

Furman.

3:10

I don't know if TJ listened to this, I joke about that in the episode.

But anyway, thank you TJ for connecting me with Chris because he is insane and an absolute badass

3:19

and I loved getting to know Chris.

I'll be at virtually, but hopefully at some point I'll either get over to London or have him come to

3:27

Indiana, at least by way of Chicago.

But first, I must say that during the episode we talked about the geography of the United Kingdom,

3:35

and I put him on the spot and it was pretty funny.

So I'm just going to state for the record, according to Wikipedia that the United Kingdom is, let's

3:43

see, England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland, which is an island nation in northwestern

Europe.

3:50

And then Kent, where Chris is from, is a county in England that has cities and villages and towns as

part of it.

4:01

And the county of Kent has almost 2 million people.

So if you're in Indianapolis local, we have about 1,000,000 people in Indianapolis and the

4:09

surrounding areas.

So it's a pretty big place.

4:12

I was just trying to figure out where in the world Chris is from.

So hopefully that gives you a better understanding and you should Google it because I really

4:19

realized my European geography needs some help.

But I love the fact that we're going a little global.

4:25

I think, Chris, this is maybe, I don't know, the second international guest I've had.

I'm getting ready to interview someone from Australia here soon.

4:33

So it's fun not only to tell local stories, even American stories, but now a few international

stories as well.

4:40

So I know that you're going to just be so impressed with Chris.

Just wait till you hear about him running across the Sahara Desert.

4:47

It's wild.

Please enjoy my conversation with Chris Slater.

4:52

Good evening, Chris.

How's it going?

4:55

Thanks so much for joining me after your work day on a Monday.

So nice of you.

5:00

It's.

A nice end to the day, right?

5:02

Yeah, perfect.

Like just end your day talking about running.

5:05

Why not?

It's definitely worse way to spend a Monday evening for that way.

5:10

Yeah, that is true.

That is true.

5:12

And you will share with us some of those worst ways, I'm sure during your during today.

Yeah.

5:17

So I was connected to you by a mutual connection of ours, TJ Fuhrman, who he might listen to this.

I doubt it.

5:24

And TJ, if you are listening to this, maybe just come run like 3 miles sometime.

OK man, but I'm so glad that he connected us. him and I met through the world of tech, which you and

5:32

I were just talking about is what I did before I started doing all things running.

But you are over in London, correct?

5:42

Yeah.

TJ gave me a hard time when I was like OK so for local people I record at the library and he's ally.

0:00

He's in the UK dumbass.

5:49

OK, sorry.

I did see that when you sent over the brief, he said.

5:53

Yeah, you have an option to record in persons.

I might be a bit of a challenge.

5:56

Yeah, I might need to do that some other time.

Although I said, you know what, I'm going to convince Chris to come to little old Indianapolis to

6:02

run a personal best because this is where you do it.

We're so flat, flat as a pancake.

6:08

You get that sub 3 here.

You can anyway.

6:11

Well.

If it doesn't happen, I'll hold you responsible.

6:13

Yeah, I'll feel bad about that if it doesn't, but thank you.

And I have had a couple people on that aren't from the United States, which is really fun for me,

6:22

just to get to learn about running in other places.

I have never done an international race.

6:28

And when this comes out, a lot of people are gearing up for London.

Are you running the London Marathon this year, Chris?

6:34

No, not this year.

I've done it three times and it's amazing.

6:37

So very.

Times.

6:40

Oh my gosh, people are going to be so jealous that you've done it three times.

That's amazing.

6:43

It's.

An unbelievable race, really good.

6:46

OK, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about that towards the end.

I wanna give you, I want you to give people who are gonna run the London Marathon all the advice and

6:53

just being a local from London, what else people should think about when they come visit.

So someday, hopefully I'll do that as well.

7:01

But before we just dive into all of your crazy running races and your journey when it comes to

running, I'd love to just get to know you and let people get to know you a little bit better.

7:11

So if you want to take us back to growing up in London with that sports growing up, just all the

things that you want to share to give people a sense of who you are.

7:20

Cool, No thank you.

So I grew up in the north of England.

7:23

I lived there for five years and then eventually moved down to London with my parents due to due to

their work.

7:30

It's quite funny because in the north of England, the South, the accent is very different.

In the north it's very, it's very strong and down South it's what we call posh.

7:39

So I lost my accent very quickly when I moved down here and started going to primary school.

So whenever I go up to see family in the North, I can't really understand it very well, which I'm

7:49

sure a lot of Americans relate to because it's obviously you have a massive country and the accents

are very different from state to state.

7:56

But growing up, my thing was always football.

I love football.

8:00

Yeah.

I played for a professional Academy between the ages of eight and 16.

8:05

So I got released at the point where I either left school to become a professional.

I didn't get a contract.

8:13

I went to a few other clubs to trial and the ones I was offered weren't really at the level that I

was aspiring to, so been out of love with it.

8:22

To be honest.

I was under a lot of pressure playing.

8:25

There's a lot of eyes on you when you're you're not doing it for fun, doing it to try and make a

living out of it.

8:29

Eventually.

And I just absolutely hated it and it took me years of play, playing for my school and then playing

8:35

with friends to start enjoying it again.

But life in London is good.

8:38

We live about an hour away, so in a county called Kent.

It's very green.

8:43

There's a lot of country roads which are like perfect running.

It's quite quiet.

8:47

And then an hour training to the chaos of London.

Into the chaos of London.

8:52

So back to football.

Growing up, you started at started a pro Academy at age 8.

8:58

What?

What age were you when you started playing in general?

9:02

Great question.

I couldn't actually tell you with accuracy you.

9:05

Probably don't remember you, probably just from playing since you can remember.

No.

9:10

I remember I played a few years for a local team, maybe for a six or seven, and I got scouted very

quickly.

9:16

Wow.

And then had to leave doing that.

9:18

So I didn't play with any of my friends growing up.

I wasn't allowed to.

9:21

That's so interesting, I don't even know what it means to be like in a pro Academy.

So are you getting paid in some way as a young kid to be a part of this?

9:30

So you you get, I say you get back then this was, I mean, I was 32 now, so this.

Was like a while ago.

9:38

OK, so my parents used to get 4 LB a training session and a match day off for me to contribute to

the travel because that I'll come on say in a second.

9:49

But yeah, that was I didn't get paid, but the parents get contribution for taking you etcetera.

And 4 LB isn't a lot by the way, like it was hours of travel so.

9:59

Maybe it's.

Like 10% of the Yeah, but they put in a lot of commitment for me.

10:05

Like it wasn't just I was the one playing and doing it, but they put in a hell of a lot of effort,

so I'll always be grateful to them for doing that.

10:14

Do you have siblings?

No, only child.

10:17

OK.

I'm always told I'm a very selfish only child by my friends.

10:21

Yeah, I can't imagine doing what you've just barely described, like you're scratching the surface of

all that they did.

10:26

I start to picture like hours of driving.

It's just all the things that they would do.

10:31

Doing that across multiple kids, which people do that here in the States and I just don't.

That's crazy to me.

10:37

But that's really cool that you got to do that at a young age.

So what did that look like?

10:41

Did you play every single day?

No.

10:44

So we trained Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday morning and I had a game on a Sunday.

Yeah.

10:51

Did you get on airplanes for tournaments?

No, it wasn't that cool.

10:55

It was all.

Yeah, it.

10:57

Was as good as glamorous as it got for.

US, yeah, but still, you're probably traveling all over the UK And for people who aren't familiar

11:04

and for people like me who always need a refresher, can you give us the quick description of Great

Britain versus UK?

11:14

You're asking the worst person.

Possible.

11:16

OK, so if you don't know anything, then that makes me feel better.

You're like, I don't know.

11:20

I don't.

Think you should feel bad for not enough?

11:22

I think so.

In the UK we have Scotland, England, Wales and think it's the Republic of Ireland part of it.

11:31

Part of Ireland isn't in the UK, but I might be completely wrong.

Maybe I should just Google and make a separate thing like here's what's going on.

11:41

But I always get confused as an American saying like UK versus England because those are different.

And for us, sometimes you kind of just lump that together.

11:51

So that's why I ask.

Yes, I think the UK and Great Britain are the same, I think.

11:57

England.

11:58

England is outcome as provided.

OK.

12:01

Yeah.

All right.

12:02

So tons of football growing up and you still played at an older age too.

Did you play like what?

12:08

What's that being able to do that at an older age?

Did you play in in like college too or what happened after you left that initial Academy you

12:17

mentioned?

I'm sure we'll come on to this, but like when we when I went to university, which is that our

12:23

version of college, I didn't play at all because I.

Wow, I'm.

12:27

Drinking, basically, I just started going out having fun because when I was playing football up to

60, I never really, I missed out on the underage drinking and things like that, right?

12:38

So I was making up for lost ground.

Yeah, I.

12:41

Think when I was 2122, maybe I got back into it, yeah.

OK, that makes sense.

12:48

Becoming a college athlete, you have to forgo the party scene as a as an athlete in college for

sure.

12:55

Did you have an opportunity to do that at all or you just decided I'm burnt out?

I'm just going to go for the experience of university.

13:02

To be honest, I think I ended up going just because I didn't really know where life was heading and

I wasn't really.

13:09

I didn't really want to go.

I just kind of went because it was the thing to do.

13:13

Yeah, because you're supposed.

To try this shit out.

13:15

So we we go to, we call it sixth form, which is between 16 and 18.

And then from sixth form as secondary school, you then go to a university that you have to get the

13:26

right grades for.

But yeah, I just, I ended up doing sports science because it felt like the going down the career

13:32

path I wanted and I ended up doing something completely different.

But I just stumbled my way through those ages being really honest.

13:38

Yeah, that's fair.

Did you have a drink at all before age 16?

13:43

Did you ever get exposure to alcohol or anything else?

In my in the second-half of my 16th year, yes, but not before I stopped playing football in an

13:53

Academy.

OK, yeah, I can relate in some ways.

13:57

Like I I drank in high school here.

I probably had my first drink when I was like 15 or so.

14:03

Sorry, Mom and Dad, although they know that at this point.

But yeah.

14:06

And then I went to school and somehow even though I partied a ton, I still managed to get decent

grades.

14:12

I really, looking back, not really sure how I did that.

But I also felt like I went to Catholic school growing up and my parents were fairly strict compared

14:20

to some of my friends.

And you get to college and all of a sudden you can do whatever you want.

14:25

And yeah, certainly an environment for that.

Where did you already say where you went to university?

14:32

I went to the University of Kent, so I stayed at home.

OK, so I didn't have the experience of living away and causing carnage.

14:40

I literally only.

Went OK.

14:42

For the seminars and lectures and classes and I met some good mates there and I ended up going out a

few times but I did a couple of jobs in and around there as well.

14:51

So I actually made quite a lot of money whilst I was doing that.

Interesting.

14:55

But I didn't really, I didn't really try universities.

The bottom line of it, I've got a good grade, but not by hard work.

15:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's how I I feel too.

15:03

I lucked out there.

What kind of jobs did you do to make a lot of money?

15:07

That's great.

I did during college.

15:09

Why not?

Why?

15:09

I worked on building sites, cleaning, so the team I worked with were all girls.

So I did and I did the Hoover in.

15:17

So I'm building sites with the Hoover and just used to get mugged off by all of the proper, all the

big lads on their laying bricks and things like that.

15:26

So they would just give me loads of reviews.

Oh God, yeah, that's funny.

15:30

The other job I did was work started a nightclub promotions business.

Yeah, yeah.

15:37

And we, yeah, we just hosted nights at nightclubs and that was perfect because we were basically

getting paid quite a bit of money at the time to go out partying.

15:44

But yeah, in hindsight I don't think it helped when my life ended up going.

Sure.

15:49

Yeah, I could see that when I was, I popped on your LinkedIn and I saw that business and I'm like,

man, that's where the party scene, Yeah.

15:56

And you have access to so much there, I'm sure, and having a blast and trying to give other people a

great experience.

16:03

And that has to be a hard world to live in.

Yeah, it's like life couldn't have been to its head any more than what it was going from playing

16:11

sport to just cause apps carnage.

Yeah, yeah.

16:16

So was there.

Would you do it at nightclubs like all over?

16:19

And where were they?

Was it in the city?

16:22

Was it more in Kent?

Are there areas?

16:24

I see you're probably going to laugh because I have no idea, but.

We did it in Kent so London's very diverse in terms of we've got some, there's some huge super clubs

16:34

like Ibiza type house music.

Yeah, yeah.

16:37

And you've.

Got some really swanky like New York type clubs where he's very exclusive, all of that kind of

16:44

stuff.

But in Kent there's probably 3 or 4 really big town, but there's some popular clubs and we just

16:50

bolted on to the most popular 1 and that's where we did it.

OK, yeah, so Kent's probably bigger than I'm imagining it to be.

16:57

It's not massive, not at all.

OK.

17:00

I couldn't give you a scale, but it's tiny compared to some of the places in the US.

Yeah, yeah.

17:05

Interesting.

I just didn't know.

17:07

Like I picture it almost like on the English countryside, when you say it's like green, I'm like,

OK, so like it's out the middle of nowhere, but it's not.

17:13

Yeah, that's.

Right.

17:14

But there's clubs there, which blows my mind.

But I guess if I think about where I live in the suburbs, we still have pockets of like bars and

17:22

restaurants up here.

And so how long did you have that business for?

17:26

Maybe 3 or 4 years.

OK.

17:29

And at what point did you go from, OK, like I'm partying and having a good time to like, drugs?

$1,000,000 question, it's very hard to answer I think because.

17:38

It's probably a blur.

Yeah, no, it was just it was a transition from drinking to them experimenting with like weeds, MDMA

17:48

and eventually coke.

Yeah, I've never.

17:52

It makes me, I feel like when I talk to people like you, Chris, I feel like such a prude, even

though I did my fair share of partying.

17:58

It's I've never seen cocaine, which is shocking really, because Miami of Ohio, where I went to

College in the United States, people probably surprised that I would say that.

18:07

But yeah, I really only ever smoked pot and drank and that's it.

And so I feel somewhat naive when I talk to people who really got into the party scene and got into

18:18

the world of hard drugs.

I think part of the reason I never found it was because I knew that if I did, like I just, I have a

18:27

pretty addictive personality so I think subconsciously maybe I stayed away, but I don't know.

I am surprised I did.

18:35

You haven't missed out on my You should count yourself as lucky because it's not a, it's not a

glamorous thing.

18:41

And it's, Yeah, my life went down a path that I never would have thought it would.

Could you explain what that journey was like and how you ended up on that path?

18:50

Was it primarily because of your business?

Because that's what the assumption I drew.

18:53

But.

I think it would have happened regardless.

18:55

When you look back at certain things and how it happened, it would be quite easy to pin it on that.

But personality type, I probably would have ended up there at some point or another.

19:07

Just began quite as a social thing though, but just enjoy it at a weekend drinking and then without

giving you the whole life story and going into loads of detail like that just spiralled over a

19:18

number of years to going from social.

Then those socials become all weekend long.

19:24

Not really going home after parties around people's houses, getting carried away and then ending up

ultimately at home on your own doing it, which is really dumb.

19:36

Yeah.

And it's not a like inexpensive thing to do either.

19:43

So were you able to afford it because you're making great money with the business?

At what point did you end up in tech too alongside this?

19:52

Yeah, when I was in the nightclub world, we can afford it easy because I didn't really have a lot of

responsibility, Tony, literally earning like three £400 cash a week from one night's work.

20:06

And that was none of that, had to go out on bills and things like that.

And I wasn't doing it as much.

20:11

So I still had money leftover.

But then as I went into a proper career and you start at the bottom of a ladder and you're getting

20:18

paid monthly.

You started to take on your own bills.

20:22

Are you starting to build a life like any normal person coming out of university work?

Then there was a massive transition of I'd always been sensible with money and made sure I had some

20:33

behind me to just complete car crash and we couldn't keep up with it.

Yeah, because I read in the article you shared with me, which I'll link.

20:42

What was it like £100 a day?

So when I got really bad, probably doing about £200 a day, five days a week probably.

20:52

OK, that's so much money.

I was crippled out.

20:55

Yeah.

Completely crippled.

20:57

Do you owe money to people and.

They're in every It's a really stupid stuff like borrowing off friends, taking out loans from the

21:07

bank.

Not big amounts by the way, like 1000 lbs.

21:11

But then when I couldn't get any more from the bank Max out credit cards 3 grand then when I

couldn't get any more on my credit limit payday loans which you.

21:20

Know 1000.

Pound and you have to pay about nearly 2000 and it's crazy.

21:25

Like, horrific.

Oh my gosh, and it after university, did you live at your parents house during that time?

21:33

Like at what point did you leave home and have a place?

Or did you Or were you just then with friends or wherever you could stay?

21:42

I've done a bit of everything, but I've lived at home, I've lived with friends, I've lived on my

own, so I've had a bit of a mix and match to be honest.

21:50

Yeah, it has to be so hard.

I just try to put myself in that position where you're you have no money and you're need to fuel

21:56

this addiction, and you probably are behind on everything at that point.

Yeah, Yeah.

22:02

And so that already paints a picture for people listening where it's OK, How the hell, Chris, are

you now?

22:07

Where you are now?

So I know we don't have the time to really do it justice because I know it's not a process that's

22:13

very easy.

But if you had to, like, Share your story so that people could see how you ended up getting yourself

22:20

out of that, please do because hopefully somebody's listening who could certainly benefit from that.

Yeah, I think I'll try and keep it as short as I can.

22:29

I think I have reached a point where I don't want to say I didn't want to live because I think

that's a very strong statement.

22:37

I think I didn't know how to live anymore.

Probably the best way I could describe it, I was in a vicious cycle as drugs run in my life and

22:48

nothing else mattered.

In the minute that I woke up, I was stressed about who I had money to, how I was feeling.

22:54

I hated myself and determined never to do it again and the things I could change to stop and

ultimately as the date progressed, I end up doing it again.

23:06

And that would just repeat, repeat, repeat.

I didn't view situations right externally, completely changed who I was.

23:12

You know, I always find value having good morals in treating me for how I wanted to be treated.

And I'd never the type of go out and have a fight or anything like that, but I was manipulating

23:25

situations to get what I wanted from it has been very selfish.

Yeah.

23:28

So all of that went on for three or four years.

And, and some things happened in my life where I had to admit to other people what was going on,

23:37

those close to me around my friends and family.

And things just naturally came to a head.

23:43

I ended up in hospital once, and that was the first time where I put my hands up and said, let's go

and get help.

23:48

And it took me two years from that point to go into rehab.

Wow.

23:54

I tried a lot of different stuff.

I moved away, I managed to cut down how much I was doing it, but I kept relapsing, which is really

24:01

fucking frustrating.

It gets every 30 days and I think you put 30 days off it and I'd end up relapsing.

24:06

Honestly, it was so painful.

You had counselling, loads of different stuff, but in the end I've been pushed to go to rehab by my

24:15

parents and a few friends.

I put my hands up and said I'll go and it's really expensive, like I had no money so it wasn't

24:22

funded by me.

And I went and did a monthly rehab.

24:25

And there's no light bulb switch that can be turned on with this kind of stuff.

Just want to be really clear so that if anybody's out there struggling and listening to this, rehab

24:34

was good for me in terms of the fact I've got to spend a lot of time with other addicts and other

Alcoholics and realise that I wasn't actually alone in this.

24:43

And we just sat around for a month.

We went to a clinic between 99 and 5:00 every day, got some serious help by people who are very

24:52

experienced, and then they spent all of the other time just hanging out and talking, like without

our phones, no connection to the real world.

24:58

It was a mad experience.

And that got me connected to what's called 12 Steps of Recovery, which is these Alcoholics

25:06

Anonymous, Cocaine Anonymous, the things that people see on TV shows when they're sat round in a

circle.

25:12

It doesn't really work quite that in every meeting, but it's that type of thing.

So you can access those anywhere in the world.

25:19

You don't need to go to rehab to do that.

That was just my journey and my story.

25:23

When I came out of rehab, I got really bad.

For about a month I wasn't in a great place and then it all just it all kicked together and that was

25:34

three years and three months ago since.

So no drugs, no alcohol.

25:38

Wow.

So, in a nutshell, that's it.

25:42

So you were an alcoholic as well?

I can't.

25:46

I don't, so I can't.

I don't drink now.

25:49

OK.

It's all trekked the same.

25:51

There's no, we call it mind altering substances.

Yeah, yeah, all in the same category.

25:55

If you get addicted to one that you're very likely it's addictive personality.

Right, exactly I used.

26:01

To love.

I used to love drinking, but I didn't wake up 8:00 AM in the morning going for a drink.

26:06

My thing was came unfortunately.

Yeah, and your parents, I can't remember if you mentioned already what they did for work.

26:14

I remember you said you moved from the north down to Kent for their work, but what did your parents

do?

26:19

So my dad worked for Shell so he used to go to see and do the Morse code.

Anybody that seemed film Titanic where they in the control room hitting the.

26:28

Beeper.

Yeah, yeah.

26:29

And then when I was born he got an office job down in London and my mum works for the NHS, which is

like our National Health Service.

26:37

OK, so they it sounds like they had decent jobs.

Did you take money from your parents when you were going through this?

26:44

So yeah, I borrowed money off the countless times by just by I was lying about things, saying I

needed it for right different reasons, which I'm not proud of.

26:53

I've had to be forgiven by them and forgive myself for that.

It was like why?

26:56

Why I was happy.

How did your relationship with them of all?

26:59

Because I imagine I could picture like you lying and being like, hey, I need money for this and

that.

27:05

Maybe just explain at what point did they know there was really something wrong?

Because if you're not always at home, they maybe didn't know what was really happening.

27:13

At what point did they figure that out?

Yeah, I'm going to sound like a bit of a twat here, but I earned my career.

27:20

Professional careers somehow progressed well and I've always earned OK.

And that's gone up as I've got older.

27:28

So they, you know, having knowledge of that when I'm borrowing money on the third day of the month

after being paid.

27:37

Yeah, once or twice.

OK.

27:39

But when that keeps happening, that starts to raise questions.

When I would get asked about that, I would like, I would get very defensive.

27:45

I'd push you back on them.

You're an idiot for asking me.

27:49

When you're out of order, yeah.

They're amazing people, right?

27:53

So much love and admiration for them.

They've been so supportive for everything I've done, whether it be recovery or running or playing

28:01

football.

We're in a completely different place.

28:05

Life's better.

Yeah, yeah, it's so hard.

28:07

I also should have said at the beginning, there is no judgement at all here in this world because

it's like we've all had our own shit and some of it hasn't maybe progressed as far.

28:16

But like I said earlier, had I been around stuff, I could have seen this happening to me.

It's the same way.

28:21

And I think in the technology world too, and I don't know if it's the same in London as it is here,

but you're in sales, you're whining and dine and everybody you're partying like you got events

28:33

you're going to like and yeah, you're making great money.

And so I could see how that environment too is like, really.

28:40

You're definitely not alone there.

Yeah.

28:43

Because I so this whole time you still had a normal job.

Yeah, I don't know how I managed to.

28:49

That is insane to me.

It was but.

28:51

There was times where it was hard to when I felt really hungover from drinking or using drugs to

turn up and go to work pressure on you.

29:01

I'm so grateful my life's not like that.

Yeah, huge congratulations for over three years of sobriety.

29:11

That's just huge.

It's just, it's amazing.

29:17

You.

Just keep running man, You got it.

29:21

OK, so now it's probably a good time to start to segue into how the heck you ended up almost

replacing one addiction for another.

29:27

I feel like runners, we a lot of us have addictive personalities where it's OK.

At least this is healthy for the most part.

29:35

Some of us overtrain at times.

But how did you end up signing up for your first marathon or run?

29:43

I don't know.

Did you start with a marathon or did you like, do other stuff before that?

29:47

Yeah, I did.

During COVID, during lockdown, So I did.

29:50

I'd never run before and I started running because we were only allowed out the house in the UK for

an hour a day.

29:56

So I mean, I need to do something.

So I started running.

29:59

Wait, say that again.

So in the UK our lockdown rules at the very start of COVID that we were only allowed out the house

30:06

for one hour a day exercise.

I'd never have heard that.

30:12

I've never heard that.

I did not know.

30:15

I would be OK.

I'm one of the people that didn't stick to OK, our government plan were horrific, so a lot of people

30:22

didn't.

Yeah, I was going to say like, how strict was that?

30:25

Because that would be holy cow.

Yeah, they could never keep.

30:29

They could never police that.

Yeah, yeah, anyway, but you started to get the heck out and run around.

30:38

Yeah, so I did.

I did 1/2 marathon.

30:40

I couldn't believe it.

I think I did like half marathon in about two hours. 15 couldn't believe it and a few weeks later I

30:47

was like I've got to go for a full 1.

And are you doing this virtually, like a virtual half marathon?

30:53

No, just just literally on my own.

Just.

30:55

Went out, yeah.

So that's you're literally, there's not like an organized race obviously during lockdown.

31:00

You're just out.

You just did you map out a route.

31:03

I didn't have really have enough experience so now I I know I know a lot of routes and I know I know

if I go this way it will end up this amount.

31:12

Whereas back then there was a lot of times you run and then you end up running around in a circle.

To Yeah.

31:19

That was the story of the first half.

I think I ended up around a just doing laps of a football pitch for about 10 minutes just trying to

31:25

get the distance.

That's funny.

31:27

Yep, Yep.

OK.

31:29

And so then, yeah, you're.

So then you're like, I did a half, now do a full on your own.

31:35

Yeah, it went out at 5:00 AM one Saturday morning.

Did the worst carb load ever.

31:40

Just had one bowl of pasta.

That was it.

31:42

Because I didn't know any different.

Yeah, she just did everything off the TV and then went out at 5:00 AM It took me about four hours,

31:51

40, and man, I was in a lot of pain.

A lot of pain.

31:56

How did you or did you like fuel?

Did you have people help you at all like?

32:02

One at all?

No.

32:03

Oh my gosh, that's crazy.

So like how?

32:07

What Did you drink any water or eat anything while you ran?

Nothing absolute raw dog everything.

32:13

Just me, my phone, a pair of headphones and a pair with gym shoes I'd had for about 10 years.

I was going to ask if you had any running shoes because probably not if you'd never run before.

32:24

Wow that is so wild.

How far apart do you remember?

32:29

What from the half to the Mario?

Yeah.

32:31

Two weeks maybe.

You're just like, I'm locked down so I'm just going to run.

32:36

That's crazy.

And so at what point in the UK did races start coming back to where you got to do your first like

32:44

line up and do a race it?

Was late to that year, so I think that was 2021.

32:48

So I did that.

I did that marathon.

32:50

I'm trying to remember.

I think maybe I did a few, Maybe I did a few on my own.

32:55

Then I started doing virtual ones.

I think I did the Great Wall of China virtual Marita, I did the New York.

33:00

Think I did a 50K and then I went to RE So all of that was going on was my life is a complete car

33:08

crash.

I didn't know what was really going on.

33:10

I wasn't trying to get healthy through running.

Stealing, active addiction went to.

33:16

Still still an active addiction.

Yeah.

33:19

OK, Yeah.

It was crazy, yeah.

33:22

Yeah, I guess that that if I did math then yeah, that makes sense.

So were you like high while you were running?

33:27

Then you had to be.

I have been a few times, yeah, unfortunately, like dangerous stuff.

33:34

Jeez, that is nuts.

And just to do that all on your own, do you ever have anybody else run with you A?

33:41

Few times, but we had quite strict rules in the UK when I think if you got spotted with people you

had to be so far apart and.

33:48

So wild.

I didn't really care about any of that.

33:51

There was, you know, if you didn't want to set a bad example.

But yeah, then just going back to your early points.

33:57

So the races then reopened at the back end of 2021.

Yeah, OK.

34:02

Like I booked in when I came out of rehab, I did Brighton, which is we've won 3 or 4, not majors,

but three or four big marathons in the UK.

34:12

So I booked in for Brighton, London and Manchester and they were in the space of four weeks.

So I ended up doing 3 and 4 weeks for charity and I wasn't an athlete then.

34:24

Like I'm not saying I am now, but I've got.

A lot of experience now.

34:28

You're an athlete now.

Chris, please.

34:31

Yeah, you are.

34:32

Take you very serious.

I've taken you very seriously now.

34:35

Yeah.

And I do all of the stuff I can to perform and train well.

34:38

But back then it was so rogue.

It was just like no training in between marathon, couldn't walk for three days, no recovery and then

34:47

go again.

And I stumbled through them like doing 4, four and a half 445 hour marathons.

34:54

Yeah, yeah.

Oh my gosh, that's crazy.

34:59

That's crazy.

And how did you have the money to do it?

35:04

Because I wasn't using, I wasn't using drugs then and also like running seemed a lot cheaper than

right because I was doing them for charity.

35:11

So you get the place a lot cheaper.

I wasn't as big into my performance as I am now.

35:16

It's like the running shoes.

You just get a pair of like 100 LB pair.

35:20

Don't ask robot.

Yeah, You know, you just turn, you turn up in a training T-shirt, put your number on.

35:26

You don't get it's got to be done properly now.

It didn't seem like the financial investment, is it?

35:32

Is now, yeah, I can appreciate that.

Yeah.

35:35

I just picture certainly you obviously had a hole to dig yourself out of too.

I've talked to other people who like whether it was their friends or family supported them in, hey,

35:43

I'll help you do this because you should do something like this for you as you're in recovery.

So what charities did you run for?

35:50

I've done all of my charity fundraising for, they're called Get Kids Going, so it's for, it's a very

small charity.

35:58

They basically fund children with disability to play sport.

That's no.

36:05

Personal story there, but I'll just be really honest.

I stumbled on them because in the UK we have big charities that you have to raise a lot of money to

36:15

do these races for and the smaller charities want a smaller commitment.

So that's how I ended up doing it.

36:22

And after I did that three and four weeks, I did some massive fundraisers for them and I got to know

them quite well and it was really cool.

36:30

They were really nice people.

That's really awesome.

36:32

And do you still, when you race today, do you still partner with them?

I don't.

36:37

The last one I did was in 2022, which I.

Did OK.

36:40

I did a marathon a week for a year since 52 in 52 weeks.

What?

36:47

Yes, that was pretty, pretty crazy.

Chris OK, All right.

36:51

Fifty.

OK.

36:52

I'm trying to hold on, wrap my head around it.

So did you do, how many of those did you do were like organized?

36:57

I have a race number races versus.

I'm going out and running around at my route that I choose. 4/4 races OK the restaurant mine.

37:09

Wow.

OK.

37:10

So did you pick where you would you do the same route every week or would you mix it up like where

would you run?

37:17

It was a bit of both.

There's only so much if I walk out the house now, I know like a big, a big loop is quite hilly, but

37:24

I know like the back of my hand and that's where I started.

I think I maybe did the first maybe first ten doing that.

37:32

But there's only so much of that I could take.

So I would start to drive tasting where it's flat and I give myself a bit of respite.

37:38

And then, yeah, I did 4 races throughout the year, OK.

Wow, that's incredible.

37:44

What made you decide to do that?

I think it was, it was basically a turning point.

37:49

But when I mentioned I came out of rehab and I wasn't very well, right.

So I looked at 2022 as a year that I had to really turn my life around.

37:59

And when I did the three marathons in four weeks as a fundraiser, I was in the bucket.

I've got to go bigger and just I'm the type of person when I think about that would be really cool

38:11

to do, but maybe I'm not ready for it.

I'm going for it.

38:15

There won't be A and maybe down the line I'll go.

I'm going to do it.

38:19

So I said on the 1st of January I will run a marathon and then I would do it every week to the rest

of the year.

38:26

So yeah, I just went balls in with it.

I'll say that is just mind blowing to me because there's because of the other things I know that

38:34

you've done.

I'm like, OK, so wait a minute.

38:37

So you ran a marathon a week in 2022 and then you ran across the Sahara Desert at some point?

Yeah.

38:46

I mean, OK, where does that come in?

When did you do that?

38:51

That was April last year, so April 2020. 4/20/24 Now is that the marathon dasable?

Is that the same?

39:01

Correct.

Yeah so it's 252 kilometers marathon Dasab world renowned for being the hardest foot race on the

39:07

planet again, one of those things I watched a documentary on during COVID and thought further down

the line you'd.

39:15

Be like why not?

But in all seriousness, like just for anybody listening with that, I during 2023 I put in a lot of

39:24

work.

I targeted a few races and not just going all out like 2022.

39:30

I got my TV down quite a lot, my mileage and training upped quite a lot.

I had a coach, I worked with a nutritionist.

39:37

I took more of my recovery more seriously.

My diet, the liquids.

39:41

I started to piece it all together and do it properly.

Yeah.

39:44

So when I booked on to to do that, it was that there was actually like some process behind it.

Obviously I'd been a Roadrunner for all of that time and that was going into a completely hostile

39:59

environment for the very first time.

Yeah.

40:01

So how did you end up finding a coach and did you end up in this?

Did you find a community at all, like a running club or anything like that that you're a part of?

40:09

Yeah, so I got my coat halfway through during the marathon a year.

So we started working together and he's unbelievable.

40:18

Like he's still my coach down.

OK.

40:20

He's a great guy, unbelievable athlete, very he's a very good person.

He's very understands my goals and where I want to get to and what I'm capable of.

40:30

That's very important as well.

So you started working with him.

40:34

Did you also separately worked with a nutritionist as a separate person?

And I still haven't done that.

40:42

I'm curious about that.

Yeah, so I my diet was crap, to be quite honest.

40:48

Because you don't know.

You don't know, right?

40:50

It's true you.

Have to learn it.

40:53

And The thing is with the volume of training, it's not just about carb loading before race.

It's, you know, even when you do a carbo for the first time, you think it's just the day before.

41:01

It's not.

It's the week before you.

41:03

Know I know I learned that recently yeah, who knew?

I like was I'm like, you like I had a bowl of pasta.

41:09

I'm great.

I'm ready to go.

41:11

And you're like, wait.

So I don't work with her full time.

41:15

She I worked with her before marathon Dassault because my mileage and training had to be right

anywhere between 100K to 100 miles to 160 KA week.

41:25

So I had to make sure I was eating and, and I don't find eating a lot of stuff, I'm quite a skinny

person.

41:31

Yeah.

So me eating 5 meals a day is completely unrealistic.

41:34

So it's like 3 meals a day and some snacks in between.

And obviously the liquid is actually really easy to do when you get the hang of it.

41:41

It's basic.

It's like electrolytes, protein shakes after heavy workouts.

41:46

You know what isn't?

But it was mainly just to fuel the level of intensity.

41:51

Yeah.

And so there's so many different races that you've done in there, too, because I want to talk about,

41:58

I want to talk about running across the desert too.

But yeah.

42:01

But in 2022, what were the four races you did that you mentioned that were the races you like signed

up for that year?

42:10

Yeah.

So 1 was called Brighton, which is like a, it's a sea front, it's very windy, quite a hilly

42:17

marathon, but very well supported.

It's, it's not one of the world majors by any strength, but it's an incredibly supported UK event,

42:24

probably similar to what one of your state marathons would be in the US.

One called Manchester, which is very similar, London, which is obviously one of the world majors.

42:34

And I did one at a racecourse which I did a massive PB at in right at the end of the 2022 OK 11 laps

round, round a race track.

42:45

And that was like first time I'd done laps marathon and mind numbing.

I'll say mind numbing 11 laps, but man, and your PB is 3 hours and 34 seconds 34 Yeah, yeah, yeah,

43:00

that's.

Couldn't get the Sprint, couldn't get the Sprint finish out.

43:03

Dude, yeah, gosh, 11 laps.

That's wild.

43:06

OK.

So the first three you mentioned, were those the three that you did in four weeks and so those were

43:11

earlier on in the year and then you also did the lapped marathon around a race track.

What kind of race track?

43:18

Was it like pavement, like a car racing or horse racing or?

Yeah.

43:23

It's not like a Formula One track base.

It's a proper race track in different cars.

43:27

Yeah, yeah, about a four, about a four kilometer loop.

OK, Yeah.

43:32

So we did.

We have one in Indianapolis.

43:35

We have IndyCar and the Indianapolis 500 and so one of our biggest races is the Indy Mini and that

you run around the Speedway, thankfully just one lap, but it's still, it's part of the track.

43:48

So it's 2 1/2 miles maybe I think, which is, I don't know how to do kilometers.

What 5K is 3 miles.

43:57

So it's, yeah, probably like 3 or 4K.

And so it's like the hardest part of the whole race because you think you watch the cars drive

44:04

around it and it takes them like a split second and then you get on it to run around it and you're

like, Jesus, when does this end?

44:10

So I cannot imagine doing that for a full marathon.

Like just laughed after, laughed after, laughed.

44:15

Was it like slanted at all or was it?

Flat.

44:18

I know the indeed.

Ours is banks, yeah, so.

44:22

This is more like a big, big loop and there's it's just more up and down.

The terms are a bit smooth.

44:29

OK, yeah, yeah, that's still nuts.

But you got clearly you'd like something about it because you ran fast or your fastest.

44:37

I did three, I did 326 there which was a massive PB at that time.

So my PB, I did it a few about four months ago, but I've done a few laps races since and there's a

44:48

lot of pros and cons about them in terms of it is quite boring, but you can process the distance a

lot more.

44:57

So I'm not totally against them.

I find them quite hard.

45:01

But for anybody out there, that's if you can dial yourself in and go.

Once I get to halfway, I've got 5 laps left.

45:10

You can count them, you can box them up.

Yeah, that's the benefit.

45:13

Yeah, yeah.

And knowing exactly what to expect every you know where everything is.

45:19

Station is, Yep, very easy to process things like that.

Yeah, yeah.

45:24

Wow.

OK, so 2022 was nuts then.

45:27

What did you do in 2023?

Just targeted some of the some of the bigger races, so I did London, New York and Berlin.

45:37

Oh yeah.

So 3/3 of the majors, That was really cool.

45:40

Dude that's so cool.

How did you get in to all of those that year?

45:45

London for charity, Berlin and New York through a tour operator.

There you go.

45:51

Yeah.

I feel like if I'm ever going to come to London or do Berlin, I'm going to have to just.

45:56

Yeah, find a company to go with to do it.

Yeah, cuz it's the easiest, most straightforward way to do it.

46:03

It's.

Very, yeah.

46:04

I just don't think I'm that lucky when it comes to the lotteries.

So I did Chicago many times before they even had a lottery.

46:13

And I think the only time I did the lottery was like the last year I ran it and I did get in.

And then now I've tried a couple times since and haven't had any luck.

46:21

So I'm like, if I want to go back, I'll just run for charity or do something else.

But yeah.

46:25

Do you have plans to do the other?

Which ones are we missing?

46:29

Boston, Chicago and Tokyo.

Yeah, Boston, Chicago.

46:33

Do you know what, Ali when I if you'd have asked me this maybe 18 months ago, my my goal would have

been to get the six stars.

46:41

And now because of how other things have like the ultra side of.

It yes.

46:47

I if I get the chance to go and do it and I'll go and do them and just like I do when I went and did

New York, I couldn't have given a fuck about the time that I ran.

46:55

I just went and enjoyed it.

The best?

46:57

And I would take exactly the same approach and just get them done and enjoy the day.

Yeah, yeah.

47:02

So yeah, I'd love to do it, I'd love to do them, but it's not a priority at the minute.

Yeah, yeah, I keep saying that I there's so many races out there.

47:11

And so yes, I've done New York and Chicago, that leaves quite a lot left, right.

So it's that'd be cool.

47:17

But there's so many places in the world that I want to see and getting to see somewhere through a

race would be so cool.

47:23

There's just a lot out there and especially when it comes to the ultra world for you.

So now, so you did London, New York, Berlin.

47:31

Any specific stories within those races?

We could spend an hour and a half talking about each one of those races.

47:37

So it's so hard for me to be like, what do I want you to share?

But anything from those, I mean 3 majors in a year is insane as well.

47:46

Yeah, Berlin was my favorite because it was the flattest, like it was so.

I've heard that it would.

47:52

Be the same what Chicago is.

London was my home race.

47:56

Amazing New York, just an absolute vibe.

Yeah, New York is incredible.

48:01

I did it in 2018.

Wild crap.

48:04

Yeah, nothing like it.

How was the weather in 2023?

48:07

I don't remember.

Sunny.

48:10

Yeah, was it hot or no?

Not really hot, no.

48:13

It was quite cold because it was.

I stayed in near Times Square, so it took five hours from waking up to get into the Staten Island.

48:23

Yep.

Yes, correct.

48:24

Yeah.

And I did the race in three hours and 20 minutes, so it took me long to get to the start to do the

48:30

race.

Yeah, that's what I tell people because it was the same for me and it took me 5 hours to get to the

48:35

start.

We stayed in Long Island City and I just say that I don't know where the hell it is.

48:40

That's where we were.

And then we took a train to get to the bus to get to the island.

48:46

And yeah, it took five hours and I ran it in 4 1/2 hours, but it's still, I ran it faster than it

took me to get to the starting point.

48:53

So I tell people it's amazing experience and people want to do it year after year.

For me, I'm like, I think that I'm good.

49:00

It was just, it's a lot.

I am so spoiled, though.

49:03

I mean, our Indianapolis race, I'll plug again for you to convince you to come here.

It's like you just literally can walk out of your hotel room and you're at the starting line.

49:10

It's insane.

And it's an amazing race, like 15,000 people.

49:14

But if the logistics are just so nice anyway.

Yeah.

49:18

So Berlin was the flattest.

They have.

49:21

The funny thing about Berlin I've heard, it's like the plastic cups and the rollerblading, two

things that are just to me, fascinating about Berlin.

49:28

You remember the plastic cups?

Like in the race?

49:32

Yeah, I honestly can't remember.

Wow, see that I would remember because I would.

49:38

That would throw me off.

I'd be like, Oh my gosh, I can't pinch it to drink out of it.

49:43

But that was one thing people told me.

So in the US you have more bottoms.

49:49

We have paper.

Cups, right?

49:51

OK, I can't remember.

Do you have?

49:54

Is it common in the UK to have plastic cups or are you paper?

Or do you just not even think about it?

50:00

I've.

Never ever noticed.

50:01

I can't lie.

I just know that cuts are really annoying because you just you end up spitting half no.

50:06

Matter what, Really.

Yeah.

50:08

The paper ones are ideal because at least you can pinch them to get a better way to drink it, versus

I can't imagine trying to drink out of a plastic cup that I can't bend.

50:17

I would choke on half of it.

I mean, I still do even though I pinch it sometimes, but anyway.

50:22

And then the rollerblading to me is so interesting.

Did you watch that the day before?

50:26

I think it takes place the day before.

I was too busy eating carbs, watching Netflix and.

50:32

Trying.

That's fair.

50:34

Yeah, that's smart.

I went on my own as well, so I'm quite a yeah.

50:38

If I'm going on my own and prepping for a race, I'm going to the Expo and then I'm going stay in my

room all day and then getting food.

50:45

Yeah.

Did you eat soft pretzels to carb load?

50:48

Because that's what I would have done, just at all of them.

I was strictly pasta and pizza.

50:53

Yeah, still good.

OK.

50:55

And then comes 2024.

So at what point did ultras get on your radar?

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OK.

54:25

And then comes 2024.

So at what point did ultras get on your radar?

54:31

Were you like, OK, like marathons are really cool, but you said you did a 50K.

Did you do that during COVID, like on your own?

54:39

Yeah, OK.

Yeah, To be honest with you, I didn't really have any specific build up.

54:43

Like you should have a build up in these types of things because it's not just distance.

You're you're going into different environments which come with a lot of challenges that require a

54:54

lot of consideration with training.

But I think because my mileage during training has been quite high, my endurance has increased quite

55:04

a lot.

So I just dove straight in at the deep end with that.

55:08

And So what did that look like?

Where do you want to start?

55:11

I know.

I don't know.

55:13

Yeah.

So what time of year is marathon de sablet?

55:16

And I feel like I can't say it sablet.

You say it like without the S.

55:21

Marathon de Saab so.

Without Yeah, so like this car, almost like Saab.

55:27

OK, I can do that.

I feel like an idiot when I say.

55:30

Marathon I think is Marathon de stables.

That's what it looks like, right?

55:34

I'm from Indiana.

I'm going to be like the marathon days, Sables.

55:38

Yeah, OK.

So I can tell you so about the race.

55:41

So it takes place in in April.

So held.

55:45

In Morocco, God, so that's the part that's Sahara in in Morocco, it's a week long stage race, so 252

kilometres overall, split into six stages.

55:58

So you're basically you arrive in Morocco, you get on a coach with everybody and you drive six hours

out into the middle of nowhere.

56:07

It's about anywhere between 35 to 50°C, so it's very, very, very hot.

There's no hiding place in the Sahara.

56:16

It's very open and it's a self-sufficient race, which means that you have a backpack and everything

you have for the week is in that other than a tent and water which is replenished in your water

56:27

bottles.

So you have to be very specific with your food, your diet, all of the mandatory equipment.

56:33

You have to be allowed into the race.

In every stage there's a start and finish line.

56:39

So the race went 30 K state, 140K85K40K30K20K.

So it went like a pyramid in terms of.

56:50

And you know what, now that you're describing this, I'm pretty sure I watched a documentary on one

of my favorite Peloton instructors, Susie Chan did the race.

57:00

When did she do that?

She didn't do it last year.

57:03

Must have been the year before or something.

You know what I'm talking about.

57:06

Yeah.

OK, you should watch this.

57:08

OK, I'm going to send you that.

She's amazing.

57:10

Cool.

Because she's done that.

57:11

Now I'm like, picturing her talking about it because she did bad water here in the US too.

And so it was all these ultras that she's done and she has a book and whatever.

57:20

OK, so the stage is you're carrying everything.

How did you even figure out what to carry and like, how to be efficient with that?

57:27

Did you lean on other people who had done the race or do they tell you like, here's what you need to

think about?

57:32

Yeah, there's a couple of different points race.

So I stumbled on somebody I knew who did the race 10 years ago.

57:40

OK, He came 11th in it.

Jeez, which is unbelievable.

57:44

There's about 1000 people in the races.

You've probably got half the people there, serious runners competing, and then half the field are

57:51

there to just walk.

John, get it done.

57:54

Yeah.

So there's a lot of regulations with the race in terms of how many calories you have to have today

58:00

and all of the mandatory equipment.

And then you have to basically go through that and go, how many calories do I actually need?

58:07

Do you know, versus the minimum requirement?

Do I need more?

58:11

But also with the other items you need, which there's a lot of what's the trade off between getting

the lightest ship possible or to get the light.

58:20

So there's a few different approaches.

You either go for comfort in terms of taking a mat to sleep on at night, pillow, a pillow, extra

58:30

food, things to clean with, spare clothes.

Or you go down the other route.

58:35

You want pure performance and to be as light as fart, which is a Noma, really trading off with the

food, calories versus weight, sacrifice all the hygiene so you know, no washing the same pair of

58:48

clothes for a week.

And I went completely in with that and he helped me to really go.

58:52

Through with him.

Absolutely, Ruth Ruthless.

58:55

You don't need that.

58:58

Get that.

That needs to be changed.

59:00

And I just went.

I went from being this.

59:02

Oh, but I need that.

I need this.

59:04

Fucking hell, we need to go.

That'd be so hard.

59:08

Yeah.

I picture myself as like when I pack for a race, I'll stay downtown Indianapolis, which is like 30

59:14

minutes from my house and I will over pack the hell out of my suitcase with all the stuff that I

feel like I need, that I never need all of.

59:21

I feel like it'd be so hard to go from.

It's almost like the comfort blankets that you have, like all the things that you just like feel

59:26

like you need to really the bare bones of it.

So if you didn't have a mat or a pillow, what do you sleep on?

59:36

So you get you're basically intensive 8, but the 10 it's like just a black rod in the middle of the

Sahara and you in just in just on the floor.

59:46

That's literally it.

So we would say wait, I would just sleep in a sleeping bag on the sand and the rocks.

59:54

It was so uncomfortable.

Right.

59:56

No matter how tired you are from the run, I still just I slept like shit the whole week because

you're around people snoring.

1:00:04

You're not.

You can't get sleeping with your rucksack as a pillow.

1:00:08

Yeah, that's why the race is hard.

It's not the distance or how, you know, hostile the temperature.

1:00:15

It's because you're carrying a lot of weight as well.

You're running through sand dunes, which takes so much energy to really get got moved through, Yeah,

1:00:25

but also the conditions, like there's no respite.

Yeah, there's no shade.

1:00:29

You're not like, oh, I'm going to get some shade at some point.

How did you end up?

1:00:34

Do you have to qualify or anything to get into this race?

Like do you have to prove that you can survive?

1:00:40

I feel like some of those races are like, we don't take just anybody.

We need somebody that we know is capable.

1:00:45

What did that look like for this one?

So for M, for MD's, no, you could, you just had to, you had to have a lot of health checks, you had

1:00:53

to prove that you were healthy, but that was as far as it went.

Some of the races I do now you have to have, you have to have enough ranking points, which is a

1:01:01

build up of certain, certain environments.

But for MD's there's nothing to stop him, my mum or dad going and doing it.

1:01:08

But if they give an ECG that is irregular, they're not going to let the race.

And also you're very, very regulated by medics during the race.

1:01:17

So if you're in a bit of trouble, they will try and help you, but they don't withdraw you because

it's a big commitment.

1:01:26

To that.

Race but at the same time I knew people that got withdrawn not by their choice because they they've

1:01:32

seen enough of the risks and what can happen if it goes wrong.

Jeez, and you came in top 50?

1:01:41

Yeah, OK, I'm 4047 which is I never there was 30 elites in the race.

Like I say, probably about 500 really good runners and I've managed to rub a top 50 finish.

1:01:56

I mean, all of this, it seems I almost just, I can't, I can't really wrap my head around it.

How did you have enough water even to carry enough water to run at those temperatures for that

1:02:09

distance?

So they have filling stations for your water as you went.

1:02:13

Yeah.

And what was the longest stretch you would go without any sort of aid?

1:02:18

So you have to have two bottles which carry 1 1/2 liters.

OK, you have to have that to be allowed to race.

1:02:26

And then there's probably water stations every 15 K so you get the opportunity.

They also would tip cold water on your head.

1:02:34

As well.

Yeah, thank goodness.

1:02:36

Yeah.

Two minutes, yeah, the longest stretch I went.

1:02:41

So on the 85 K stage, I think at about 60 K, we were in the midday sun, which is nothing I've felt

before.

1:02:49

But I was about 5K away from an aid station and I ran out of water.

And I just remembered it's the only time I've ever hit a point of exhaustion where I was so

1:02:59

dehydrated that I couldn't.

I've got to have been like 400 meters.

1:03:03

And I was kind of helped, I was helped to the station because I could have really walked straight.

And then as soon as I took on board some fluids, it was fine.

1:03:11

But just to give you some context about how hot it is and how much you sweat, that 85 K sage took me

12 hours.

1:03:20

I drank probably 24 litres of water and I had two pieces.

Yeah.

1:03:26

Like 2 and normally at home if I drink a glass of electrolytes so I'm.

Up and down.

1:03:31

To the toilet.

Jeez, that's nuts.

1:03:35

And what did you eat?

What did you fuel with?

1:03:38

Got these specialists trying to think the best way to put it.

They were like packets of dry food.

1:03:44

So for breakfast, it might be a porridge with berries, and then for dinner, it's things like

spaghetti Bolognese, tiger and Curry banana.

1:03:53

But that sounds lovely.

It was just a packet of foods that you tip hot water in and mix it up.

1:04:00

Yeah, they were horrific.

So we were stuck because I sacrificed on things, like things to heat the water up with charcoal.

1:04:08

Didn't take any of that because it was extra weight.

So we'd be having cold porridge at 6:00 AM before a stage.

1:04:14

Yeah.

And a carbohydrate drink which takes horrific on or on.

1:04:18

A good day, yeah.

Yeah, it was rough.

1:04:20

Really rough.

Yeah, that sounds gross.

1:04:23

And so did you.

So you literally didn't rinse off at all outside of like people dump in the water.

1:04:28

In your head you're like, did you have one change of clothes or no?

You literally wore the same outfit, same underwear the whole time.

1:04:37

Yeah, yeah.

I did this is the only like the closest thing I get, which is laughable is I've done a Ragnar.

1:04:48

I did one last fall and we didn't shower.

We just wiped ourselves off with like wipes, but we had to change.

1:04:53

I changed.

I didn't, but I didn't shower for the whole weekend and that felt gross and like the idea that

1:04:59

you're just like, constantly sweating.

Yeah, that's.

1:05:04

It's not that easy.

It's the sand as well, like.

1:05:06

Oh God, the sand.

You had to sleep covered in sand.

1:05:10

Yeah, like when we go back to the hotel, like when you get seen.

And the other thing is I have quite, I don't really grow facial hair so very well.

1:05:18

So when I don't shave for a week I had this really dodgy touch and I just looked in complete state.

That's that's a good look.

1:05:26

That's yeah, like lip lips burnt as well.

You guys have been asked about sunscreen.

1:05:29

Do you put sunscreen on?

You had to have sunscreen, right?

1:05:33

Yeah, that was a mandatory.

You had to have at least 50 millilitres.

1:05:37

Yeah, sunscreen.

So you just factor 50 really strong few sprays on the arms in terms of head where you're wearing a

1:05:45

cap either backwards or with a thing that comes back.

Yes.

1:05:51

Did you wear that at all times or just some of the time?

Yeah.

1:05:55

That's nuts.

What an insane experience to have done that.

1:06:00

Incredible.

It's absolutely incredible.

1:06:03

And so when you, what was the finish line experience like?

Because I feel like people who are roadrunners, right?

1:06:10

You picture the New York City Marathon finish, it's insane.

But then these races are different.

1:06:15

It's a different environment that you're in.

What was that like?

1:06:19

Yeah, it's a great question.

It's it's quite you go through the range of emotion because it's a stage race, like you, you go

1:06:26

through a finish line every stage.

So fine, picture this in the Sahara desert.

1:06:31

If you Google it, like just pictures of it and like the finish line by a huge camp with music

blaring, somebody MC in, like you're getting welcomed in by the medics and the support staff and

1:06:44

it's incredible.

But the first few felt great because you're you're setting it got a lot of energy.

1:06:50

And I remember that there's a video of me on the long stage coming across the finish line and I was

just exhausted.

1:06:56

It was at night.

We ran into the night.

1:06:59

Oh, right.

And then from that point just it turned for me in terms of I cried on the second to last stage

1:07:06

because I think I processed it and I was like, I've got 21 K to do.

I was, I think 45th in the race going into the last day.

1:07:14

I was like, I know who I'm racing because there's a leaderboard who's who.

So I was like, I've got chunks of time on them or I'm not going to overtake them and they're not

1:07:22

going to overtake me.

I've just got to make sure I stay within a decent range.

1:07:27

Yeah.

And then the last, I didn't even enjoy it because I was, I think I'd already just mentally broken

1:07:32

down with not happiness, just pure emotion of like, it's been pretty brutal.

I remember what the position I'd come from a few years ago, just thinking about everybody at home

1:07:42

because you don't speak to them.

You can send them videos from a little heart, but yeah, so a lot of different emotions go through

1:07:49

you.

Yeah.

1:07:51

Were you, are people able to track you from home?

Could they see that you've made it to the next stage and the stages you have to make it within a

1:07:59

certain cut off for each stage and that's why they do that, to just make sure people can.

It's not.

1:08:06

If it's big one big stage, then it just helps keep everybody moving.

Yeah, yeah, correct.

1:08:12

OK, so how long did it take you?

Overall, so I did.

1:08:17

I think I did 31 hours and 50 minutes with my accumulative time at over the 250K.

Wow, the mental side of it.

1:08:26

Can we talk about that for a second?

Like, how do you?

1:08:31

Because you're not listening to music?

I would imagine in the Sahara desert, because you're probably not allowed.

1:08:36

How do you mentally train yourself for something like that?

Yeah, I think for me like in during the training process, like you do a lot of mileage on your own

1:08:47

building up doing 100K to 160 KA week on your own, that takes a lot of commitment in and around

work, other things.

1:08:54

Yeah, work, right.

Yeah, I know.

1:08:57

And then also doing the environmental training.

So I trained in a heat chamber, which is.

1:09:02

Like, oh, you did.

Degree, yes, to acclimatise the body.

1:09:05

So that is mental training because that is doing an hour in a little room with a treadmill where

there's no escape from, you're just sweating your absolute nuts or all of those little things start

1:09:17

to formulate the mental you're building up, you're building up and also people talking running about

their why and the reasons why you're doing it.

1:09:26

And for me, a lot of that comes from within.

At the same time, I think we've long distance running.

1:09:32

You have to be mentally strong, but I don't think there's a blueprint to it because it sounds stupid

saying it, but you're out there for a long time.

1:09:40

If you just start running on adrenaline for 5 minutes like that, that wears off.

So you have to try and keep yourself as level as you can over that time.

1:09:48

And naturally you will fluctuate, but if you just try and keep sensitive and I think for me that was

as much as I could do and just think, you know, like running across the Sahara Desert.

1:09:57

And four years ago I was in a rehabilitation centre and helped drug addiction.

Yeah.

1:10:02

Yeah.

Yeah, what a what an incredible difference.

1:10:07

And OK, heat chamber.

Do you, how do you do that?

1:10:10

Do you like pay to go somewhere to like train?

I don't even know where I could do that if I wanted to.

1:10:17

Yeah, so I went to there.

There was a place in London which is like a performance center.

1:10:22

OK.

And for like my two week taper was basically spent doing an hour a day in the chamber, which adapt

1:10:29

your body in terms of regulating your sweat more.

But they typically they'll be more in universities and colleges and places like that.

1:10:38

Interesting.

As opposed to that.

1:10:40

There wasn't actually a lot of private places around here that did that.

Right.

1:10:44

So at the performance, so did you pay to like book it?

Did you have to like schedule?

1:10:48

That's so interesting.

Yeah.

1:10:50

So wild.

Yeah, so I think we what happened?

1:10:53

I had to book it like six months before because they get a lot of people doing the same thing.

So I think it was like £700.00 for 10 hours as well.

1:11:03

So it's quite the whole thing.

Cost me a fortune.

1:11:05

Seriously.

Yeah, I bet.

1:11:06

I bet.

Yeah.

1:11:08

Well, I think about now the 77 marathons and seven days on 7 continents, that has been on my radar.

It's in my feed, if you will.

1:11:16

And it's like the cost of that, I don't know, 40 grand or something.

So you're like, yeah, it's a lot.

1:11:21

Yeah.

OK.

1:11:22

So I wish I would have now that I'm thinking through this, I was like, I should have watched that

Susie Chan documentary again before talking to you because I know we're going to hang up and be

1:11:30

like, but what?

How did he do this?

1:11:32

But I mean, so you've also had ADNF at UT MB.

When was that?

1:11:40

And tell people what UT MB is who aren't familiar at all with that.

Yeah.

1:11:44

Yeah.

So that was in January.

1:11:47

OK.

But just to tell people about UT MB, it's the biggest ultra running World Series across the globe.

1:11:54

They do different distances.

I think it's like 5025 K, 50 KA, 100 KA, 100 miles, and there's 40 races across the globe and

1:12:03

they're all in very different types of terrain, environments.

They're not straightforward races.

1:12:09

And then it cumulates with a world final in Mont Blanc.

OK.

1:12:14

That's 10,000 meters in elevation that you run, but also it's 3000 feet above sea level.

My God, close to 50% less oxygen.

1:12:24

So it's things like that.

The one I did in January was round a coastal path in the southeast of England, and that was more

1:12:32

challenging because it was basically modern standing water above your ankles.

A lot of rock climbs.

1:12:40

And I couldn't.

I didn't have enough experience is the best way to put it.

1:12:44

Wow, I didn't realise there were forty of them.

Actually.

1:12:46

I always pictured the Mont Blanc.

That's like the one that I've seen.

1:12:50

Yeah, I didn't.

I thought that's what it was.

1:12:52

I thought that's UT MB like I didn't realise there were forty of them.

Like different ones throughout.

1:12:56

Are there any there?

Are there some in the United States?

1:12:59

Yeah, I don't know the global scene well enough, but it's spread about the different countries.

But the one in Mont Blanc is the world final, which you.

1:13:06

Basically have.

To accumulate certain requirements to be able to then go and OK the Super Bowl of ultra running.

1:13:15

Best.

Yeah, yeah, it looks, it looks insane.

1:13:20

OK.

So the one you did, how many miles in did you make it?

1:13:24

I got to 84 K which is just over 50.

OK.

1:13:28

And.

Then I was in a checkpoint and pretty banged up, had some problems with my feet, toenails, big

1:13:37

toenails came off, had to be pulled off.

And yeah, I tried to head out and had to make a, had to make a really tough decision.

1:13:45

I was in quite a lot of pain.

No excuses.

1:13:48

My experience led to that happening.

That wasn't a fluke injury because things that I've learned now, yeah, will hopefully prevent that

1:13:56

from.

Was it things like, I don't know, what did you learn and what will you do differently?

1:14:02

Yes.

And there's a couple of things.

1:14:04

There is for that specific race I'd I'd run on like in England at this time of year, we probably

similar to you.

1:14:12

It's like, really cold, really.

Wet.

1:14:14

Really.

Damp.

1:14:15

So running the trails where I live which I did in preparation is very different to what that was

like.

1:14:22

That was I might have run at 50% hard trails, that was 150% hard trails really difficult.

So going a bit further in terms of the types of train I run in under foot experience.

1:14:39

And then the other thing is I didn't withdraw for this, but one of the things that I've learnt doing

these things is you do have to be prepared to walk quite a lot.

1:14:47

There's a really steep elevation, there's a lot of rock climbs that not even elites or professionals

are going to run, which you struggle to build up a lot of momentum.

1:14:57

When you do that on the road, you're like bang straight your head.

Right.

1:15:01

Whereas with this, it's very, very technical.

You're navigating a lot.

1:15:05

You may be running for 100 meters in the New York encounter, another obstacle.

So I think for me, like, it's just again, like developing my mental game.

1:15:15

So jeez.

Yeah, that's still an incredible achievement.

1:15:20

Like getting there, doing that.

Did you have to qualify or anything for that?

1:15:25

Yes.

OK.

1:15:26

So that was, but they're 100 mile.

So I think, I'm not an expert, but I think for the other distancing you could just do those, you

1:15:34

could sign up.

OK.

1:15:36

You then have to have the check insurance the day before, sort of technical medical checks.

But then for the 100 mileage, you have to have a certain number of ranking points, which is based on

1:15:46

previous races to be able to do that.

OK, Luckily I don't lose any of that, so I can next year I'll go again.

1:15:54

Yeah.

OK, so now I'm going to ask you the end of the podcast questions just so we can talk about what's

1:16:01

next, because that's one of my questions anyway.

Cool.

1:16:03

I could talk to you all day and all evening for you.

And then we have to talk about Bobby.

1:16:07

Don't let me get off this without talking about Bobby, OK?

What is your favorite running mantra and or song?

1:16:14

My song choice is horrific and I won't even go into that.

I don't really have a mantra than consistency.

1:16:21

If you do this long term, consistency will get you, will get you on that upward trajectory.

I think you have to face the good and the bad and like for me, I'll always be proud of for how I

1:16:32

deal with the adversity and the tough moments like I have had to in UT MB because that's what fuels

me personally.

1:16:40

And I just think things go wrong during races.

Like just realise it happens to everybody, you know?

1:16:47

That's how you learn.

Nobody gets it first time and you will become stronger for that.

1:16:52

Yeah, Yeah, that's good.

And then, OK, what's next?

1:16:55

Next finish line or milestone?

Obviously there's milestones associated with sobriety too.

1:17:00

When will your four years be?

What's your date, the side?

1:17:04

OK, OK.

I expect a present from.

1:17:08

Yeah, it's OK.

Each year I was gonna send you some random mug that I make or something.

1:17:13

I know, but it's such a big deal.

You should get like a freaking trophy and then so next finish line.

1:17:19

So now what?

I mean, Chris, this is insane.

1:17:21

So people who listen to this, it's a wide variety.

There's ultra runners who listen to this.

1:17:26

I would say a lot of people are probably like me, like dabble in the marathon Roadrunner.

So like all this is mind blowing to me.

1:17:34

I'm just like partially in shock.

So what the heck are you going to do now?

1:17:38

Just keep topping Like what you've been, what you've done.

It's incredible.

1:17:43

So what's going on now?

What are you doing?

1:17:45

So I've had to replan my whole year after because I had to.

I had another UTMB race in May and then another 100 mile A in September, which again are in Roe,

1:17:56

very elevated, very off road environment.

So I made a decision after January and this is quite difficult for me to do.

1:18:03

But like I just said, fuck it, I'm not doing that and I'm going to build my use this year and build

myself up.

1:18:09

I've got a couple of 50K races locally, it won't be that hard in terms of terrain.

And then I've got two 100K races later in the year, which will be, one shouldn't be too bad, but one

1:18:24

is quite raw.

And then that'll build me back up to next January.

1:18:29

So I basically had to push everything I want to do a year and just just rebuild a bit, and I think

that's OK.

1:18:35

Yeah, I also think it sounds responsible and smart going through injury and stuff that you're and

learning a ton.

1:18:42

You're like, OK, if I just push, I mean, what's a year, you know, build it up and then get after it.

So did you just to get to defer those other two races that you had on the books for this year?

1:18:51

No, I've looked like one of them.

I managed to the 100K I'm doing later in the year, which is quite tough.

1:18:57

That was that the same sort of the same company that do the 100 mile and so I was only able to drop

down but the one with you.

1:19:03

Two OK.

Quit on an entry, you don't get the money back.

1:19:07

For yeah, cheers. close another deal or whatever it is that for work that you do, how do you

balance?

1:19:14

We didn't really even talk about career a ton, but like in tech and in sales are you do you work at

home and fit in your training just around your schedule?

1:19:23

Yes, I'm quite lucky in that regard where I go into London a lot to meet in face to face stuff, but

placed at home normally and then I can plan my training around that.

1:19:34

And I think it's it's just discipline.

Yeah, look, I'm very committed to this sport and just I don't want to look back quick there.

1:19:42

Any regrets?

And it's hard to say.

1:19:43

There's times.

We'll just make sure.

1:19:45

Yeah, I go out if I need to do 20 KA day.

I did 10K along just 10K off to work.

1:19:51

Yeah, it's wild.

OK.

1:19:53

And then, OK, one more question before Bobby.

London.

1:19:55

We need to talk about London again.

For anybody who is currently training, what words of wisdom do you have for them coming?

1:20:01

Or like where are there any must you must go here, must do this while you're here, the device that

you have.

1:20:08

Yeah, great question.

There's a lot to see in London.

1:20:11

It's a great place.

I'd stay away from the bad parts because there are some, but enjoy the foods.

1:20:16

There's some great places.

I think if you're coming for the marathon, just the first at London, there's three different start

1:20:23

lines before it merges into.

Probably takes about 5K before it emerges.

1:20:29

I know that can be quite quiet, but as you then get into London, like, shit's good.

Yeah, crazy.

1:20:38

So you're not running this year, Will you go spectate?

I'm going to watch it on TV.

1:20:42

OK, put my.

Feet up.

1:20:43

Well, good luck everybody.

Yeah, I know some people racing, but I want to watch the elite race for the first time in years

1:20:51

because.

That'd be fun, yeah.

1:20:52

Harrison Disarb was on at the same time last year.

So I've never, I haven't watched it for five years.

1:20:57

Yeah, OK, OK.

And then Bobby is your dog, and so I need to know everything about Bobby.

1:21:05

How old is Bobby?

What kind of dog is Bobby?

1:21:07

How did you get the name Bobby?

Do you want me to go and get him?

1:21:09

Yeah, let's do that.

All right.

1:21:11

You have my dog here, too.

1:21:12

Might not be I might not be successful, but I'll try.

Doug, come here.

1:21:17

Come here.

You want to see?

1:21:19

Come here.

You got to see the dog.

1:21:21

Oh.

I managed to.

1:21:22

I managed to bribe him.

He snuck in.

1:21:25

I couldn't see him running, running.

Oh, there's my man.

1:21:29

That's my dude is.

It he.

1:21:32

Yeah, Doug, the dog DUG.

Dog, I love that.

1:21:35

OK.

Oh, hi, Bobby.

1:21:37

He's.

Gonna be on a forecast.

1:21:39

I don't care, but I'm so cute.

OK, so how old is he?

1:21:43

He.

Is 3.

1:21:46

Three.

OK.

1:21:47

And what kind of dog?

Cavapoo.

1:21:49

Cavapoo so cute, so you can't really run with him or can you?

A little bit he's got.

1:21:55

No stamina.

I just don't know what's going.

1:21:58

On oh, that's so funny.

So he's 3.

1:22:02

So you got him soon after you got sober then?

Was that part of recovery a little bit for you?

1:22:07

Yeah, I've never understood the love dogs before I had one.

And now, like, I'd literally anything for him.

1:22:15

Yeah, I think, I think I need.

Yeah.

1:22:17

I relapsed a few times when he was really young and then that was it.

That's pretty cool.

1:22:22

Yeah.

My, my.

1:22:23

He is a goldendoodle, and he's 11, almost 11.

He'll be 11 in exactly a month, actually.

1:22:28

So he's getting old, but he still has.

He'll still run with me.

1:22:32

I had to get him boots to wear because his paw pads started wearing out faster.

And.

1:22:38

But yeah, I don't know.

I swear.

1:22:40

He's just going to live forever.

That's what I hope.

1:22:42

Have you been buying him a pair of alpha flies to run it?

Right.

1:22:45

Can you imagine?

No.

1:22:47

It's like ridiculous Velcro booties that he absolutely hates.

And he, like, walks.

1:22:51

Like we put them on, and he's, like, walking, like picking his legs up.

What in the world did you do to me?

1:22:55

Yeah, but I can't even say the word RUN.

Like he'll go nuts, like, knowing that could be a possibility.

1:23:02

So I can't get him excited about that.

Oh, well, he's so cute.

1:23:05

I saw pictures of him, so I had to ask.

And I love the name Bobby.

1:23:08

What made you name him Bobby?

He's actually my mom and dad's dog, so I didn't get a choice.

1:23:13

Oh, so they named him?

Oh, it's pretty cute.

1:23:18

The football with the soccer team we support at home.

OK.

1:23:22

One of the favorite one of the favorite managers of the team was called Bobby.

Perfect.

1:23:27

It's such a great.

I love human names for animals so much.

1:23:31

And that one's pretty good, Bobby.

Oh, hey, Bobby.

1:23:35

Oh my gosh, see you later.

I love you too.

1:23:40

That's so funny that he just growled.

Oh, it's the best.

1:23:44

Thank you again so much for doing this Chris.

I can't wait now to follow your journey.

1:23:48

Tell people your Instagram.

It's at Chris Slater with three Rs at the end.

1:23:54

Three Rs at the end.

I love it.

1:23:57

Thanks for doing this, it's been so much fun.

Thank you for.

1:24:00

Having me Ali, it's been lovely to speak to you.

I look forward to following your running gems.

1:24:04

Oh, thank you.

I'm trying to keep at it.

1:24:07

And if you come to the States sometime, you've been to Boston, I saw not for the marathon and you've

been to New York.

1:24:13

Have you been to the States otherwise?

Just Florida.

1:24:16

Florida, it's very young, OK in parks, yeah, I think Chicago, like Chicago.

I'd love to go to Chicago at some point.

1:24:23

And then also.

See, if you did Chicago, you should, and then we're three hours South by car or like a one hour

1:24:30

flight.

And our marathon is usually it's like a month after.

1:24:34

So you'd have to spend a month, but you know, you could work from anywhere anyway.

All right, I could talk to you all day.

1:24:39

Thank you, Chris, and thank you to everybody who has listened and happy running.

If you enjoyed this episode of the finish lines and milestones podcast from Sandy Boyd productions,

1:24:50

please go share rate review.

It takes just a second.

1:24:54

It means so much.

Also, you can find me on Instagram.

1:24:57

I'm Ally ALLYT as in tango Brett Brett under score runs, Ally T Brettt under score runs and we can

be friends.

1:25:05

I'm trying harder there too with, you know, the whole video thing.

Anyways, thank you so much to the sponsors, Bitch Sticks, Pure Fuel, Prevan X and then also wanted

1:25:15

to shout out my running partner Becky Riley, who listens to this podcast.

That's how we met.

1:25:20

She got a personal best at the same Costa half Marathon here recently, as did a bunch of my other

friends.

1:25:26

I'll forget somebody if I start listing them.

And she also got a personal best in the 5K recently too, that I forgot to congratulate her about and

1:25:34

got a second place finish there too.

So podium finished.

1:25:36

So proud of you, Becky, and thank you everybody for listening and for your support.

OK, I will talk to you next week.

1:25:41

Bye.

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