Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 114: Johanna Kitchell - The Third Comeback Story

Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 114: Johanna Kitchell - The Third Comeback Story

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Guest: Johanna Kitchell @jkitchell

Show Notes:

Johanna Kitchell is a RUN(317) Ambassador and a middle school music teacher by day. I've seen Johanna at various races but finally got to sit down and get to know her. If you want a comeback story, this woman has THREE.

During this episode, sponsored by Athlete Bouquets, we talk about:

  • What summer feels like as a teacher

  • Growing up in Albany, NY and how she ended up in Indiana (and then how her sister also ended up in Indiana)

  • Running in college at Butler University 

  • Becoming an ambassador for Run(317) and even running one on her wedding day as part of the festivities

  • How her husband, Joe, won the Boston Marathon Kuwait Edition in 2018

  • The fact that the Indy Mini needs to bring back the double medals for the top 500 finishers

  • Healthy Hawks - the running club at the school where she teaches

  • The half marathons and marathons she’s run

  • Her - not one - but THREE comeback stories

  • Christmas Eve 2023 when she was attacked while running 

Sponsor Details:

Athlete Bouquets - Use code PODCAST for 10% off your order

Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

 

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast to celebrate the everyday runner. I'm your host, ally Brett Knocker, and if you run. You're a runner and every runner has a story. Join me every Friday as I share these stories and we celebrate finish lines and milestones together. Really excited to share this week's episode as I always am.

I first wanna talk about the Indianapolis 5K and monumental mile that happened last weekend, 21st on Saturday, and it was super warm and I went downtown early, volunteered, then ran the 5K, then volunteered, then met up with my family and we ran the one mile community mile, which is non-competitive.

And then. I volunteered some more and then [00:01:00] helped break down the finish line to shoot and move barricades and tables. And that was hard. It was a long morning, but it was the best morning and I loved cheering on friends that I saw running the mile in the five KI. And I got to volunteer as a co-captain of the finish line shoot with my friend Ashley Haynes, who also sits on the board of Directors for Beyond Monumental.

So it was a super fun race. If you didn't get to join us or if you've never done it, earmark that for next year. It's a really fun day, and I hate running five Ks. I've decided it's just really hard to go so fast. That's the thing, if you're racing a 5K and you have your 5K pace, that's why it's hard, not.

The distance itself. And so I was reminded of that as I passed Ashley, and she took a hilarious video of me saying that I hated it. So anyway, tomorrow I'm heading to Seattle area for my cousin's wedding on Woodby Island, and I'm so excited. We're going, just me and my husband and my parents are going, and both my sisters will be there.

And [00:02:00] it's a lot cooler than it is in the Midwest right now. If you're in the Midwest. You know what I mean? It's like running inside an oven and also. Related to this week's guest, I wanna tell you about the next run 3 1 7 Race, which I spectated at the one that was in Carmel by where I live recently. But the next one is on July 10th, which happens to be my 39th birthday.

And so if you are in the indie area and wanna join and help me celebrate, let's do it. I'm registered officially, so. Get on it. It's gonna be so much fun. It's in broad Ripple and run 3 1 7. Hasn't had a broad ripple race for a while, so such a fun part of town. Really excited for that, and that's a great segue to introduce you to my guest, Johanna Kiel. And Joe is married to Joe. They call him the Joes, and Johanna is a big ambassador for Run 3 1 7. You'll hear her talk all about those races and how long she's been doing it and what she loves about it. She's in the midst of a big [00:03:00] comeback and she's had comeback after having a baby. She's had a comeback after this big surgery that was literally, as I record this, it was a year ago today, and she also had a comeback after unfortunately being one of the women who has been attacked while running. So she tells all those stories and we talk about the races she's done and her musical side, she's a music teacher.

Bye day, and I know you're just gonna be so inspired and really love this conversation with Johanna. Enjoy.

Ally Brettnacher: Hi, Johanna.

Johanna Kitchell: Hi. How are you?

Ally Brettnacher: Good, how are you?

Johanna Kitchell: I am well. I'm enjoying the first few days of summer.

Ally Brettnacher: Same.

Finally summer.

Yeah. We asked for it. I know. And here it is, 

Johanna Kitchell: although it's kind of gray today, but I'll take it. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, totally. 

Johanna Kitchell: it's one of my first days that like, I don't have people in my house and I don't have school, and I'm enjoying that, 

Ally Brettnacher: thank goodness.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So for people who don't know you mm-hmm. You're a teacher by trade. I 

Johanna Kitchell: am. Yes. 

Ally Brettnacher: So, summer's different for you than most people. It's, 

Johanna Kitchell: it is. And like I, you know, without going deep into like the [00:04:00] teachers do things, but I'm very busy in the summer and I do a lot of stuff related to my classroom and my curriculum and stuff.

But there is a big difference because our lives are run by bells and schedules, and I see all these people who are like, I'm gonna go sit at a coffee shop and do work. And I'm like, wait, what's that? Like? And so while I do the work, I get to actually do it at a coffee shop, like. Normal humans. Yeah. So that part's really nice.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, I've, it is probably so great to just mix it up and not have to be somewhere at a very specific time, the time, very specific time, and not 

Johanna Kitchell: have like a 30 minute lunch that doesn't include time in the middle and making copies and stuff. So I can kind of do it on my own schedule for a few weeks, which is nice.

Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: You're a music teacher? Mm-hmm.

You're specific to music only? Yes. Yes. Okay. 

Johanna Kitchell: So I teach sixth, seventh, and eighth grade orchestra. Cool.

So,

like I'm licensed, like I can teach general music and I have taught general music, which is like the classes you may have took.

When you were in, um, like elementary school or middle school? Yeah. Um, and I've taught that in the past as well, but my primary focus is sixth, seventh, and eighth grade orchestra. Okay. So violin, viola, cello, and bass. So sixth graders are my beginners. And then my seventh and eighth graders are my like, intermediate advanced [00:05:00] students.

Ally Brettnacher: That's so cool. And 

Johanna Kitchell: that's what I do all day. 

Ally Brettnacher: Im glad you explained like orchestra, like the instruments too to me. 'cause that's gonna be my next question. Yeah. Like what is orchestra compared to like normal? Yeah. So 

Johanna Kitchell: there's band which is like, winds, wood winds, brass and percussion, and then choir singing.

Yep. Um, and then orchestra is a traditional, like string orchestra is violin, viol, ella bass. Um, you can do full orchestra, which what we would call it. sometimes in middle school, but often more in like high school and stuff. And then in like college and the professional world where you do see all the strings, but then there's also winds, brass and percussion.

Okay. So that's like a full symphony orchestra. We can do that. Um, and I've done it in the past, but my primary day to day is just the four string instruments. Okay. 

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Well that's nice. 'cause otherwise I can only imagine how overwhelming it would be to have the entire orchestra across. Three levels.

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. I mean, you get used to it and you figure it out and high school directors do it all the time. Yeah. I've had some experience doing full, but it's fun. I love the younger levels and the beginning level. Like that's really my jam. I joke around like, I was born to be a middle school or junior high teacher that is 100% the right age group for me.

Ugh. So [00:06:00] fun. I love it. I love my seventh and my eighth graders and my sixth graders. Like most people are like, Nope, no, no, no. I'm not going anywhere near it. And instead I'm like, please more. 

Ally Brettnacher: This is, this is where I am, am meant to be. Yeah, a hundred percent. And you are a cellist 

Johanna Kitchell: by trade? Yes. Yes. Okay. So my primary instrument's, piano and cello.

Okay. Um, so I play cello Professionally, you could say, where I, you know, I have like a quartet. We play weddings and I play in orchestras and stuff. but then I teach all of them so I can play violin at like a high school-ish level in, in viola and bass at that, kind of, that level. , I do have students who can outplay me on those three instruments and every time we like joke around about that, I have to like look at my cellists and I'm like, sorry, I I got you on that one.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's my primary, so How did you get into music? My whole family was musical. Um, my joke is like, we were the family that sang in like four part harmony in the car growing up. Yeah. That's hilarious. Um, so my dad was a pianist and trombone player. My mom was a singer. Um, her family was musical and so, it was like expected that we would start something when we were young.

So my sister and I both were put in piano lessons and then from there, as long as [00:07:00] we like put in the work, we could expand to what we wanted. So my sister picked up trumpet in band in fifth grade and where we grew up, orchestra started in fourth grade. And so I was still doing piano and I really liked it.

And then I picked up cello as well. In fourth grade and, just kind of like kept falling in love with it and loved doing it and was very much that teacher type where like I would run like school with my friends. Oh yeah. I was one of those people. Mm-hmm. So it was pretty clear I think, that I was gonna end up being a teacher.

so I knew by like mid high school I had great directors and great teachers growing up and I knew by about yeah. Mid, mid high school, like sophomore year, like I think I want to be a music teacher. Wow. So I did. so teach orchestra all day on Sundays as well. I teach a youth or I conduct a youth orchestra here in the city.

geez. So I love it. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I am so always so envious of people who knew what they wanted to do

when they were young. Like, they're like, this is what I'm meant to do on this earth. I'm one of those people who's like. I don't know what I'm gonna be doing five years from now. Yeah. No idea. So that's really cool.

Johanna Kitchell: It is weird. Like I've had it, I just [00:08:00] finished year 17 and so truly for 17, yeah. For almost half of my life, like I've been a music teacher.

Wow.

And like a orchestra teacher in the same school, in the same district. Like I've, this is like my whole thing. Okay. So for people who are listening who are from Indy, what school?

Yeah. I'm at Riverside Junior High, which is part of Hamilton Southeastern Schools. Not to be confused with Riverside Heron, which is downtown. Oh, that's very confusing. Yeah, there's two. Oh my gosh. We, we were first if it matters, um, but yeah, I'm at to somebody. It does. So I'm up in Fishers, , is where I teach, and, one of four junior highs up there.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. And do you live there or you live in Broadville? I live in Broadville. Okay. That's what I thought. 

Johanna Kitchell: Mm-hmm. My husband and I are mid towners. We just are, love teaching where we teach, where I teach and love living where I 

Ally Brettnacher: live. Yeah. That's so cool. And you're Joe mm-hmm.

From Johanna. Yeah. Which I always like.

Yes. That helps me remember. Yes. People call us the Joes, the Joes team, Joe. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Um, okay. And you're not from here originally, correct? No. No. Where did you grow up? 

Johanna Kitchell: I grew up in Albany, New York. Okay. Um, I was originally born down outside of New York City in New Jersey, and then my parents moved up to [00:09:00] Albany.

They're still in Albany. Okay. Um, but yeah, I moved out here. I went to Butler and that's how I ended up out here. And Okay. Um, and then I got the job at Riverside and I stayed. Geez. 

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. And you ran at Butler? Yes. I didn't realize that. Mm-hmm. Actually, so did you, growing up, obviously you were into music and practicing music.

Yes. Did you also do sports? 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah, so I started, I was one of those kids who did a lot of different sports. Um, soccer was my big primary one for a long time. I played soccer for like 11 years. and I dabbled in softball and my parents put me in tennis and gymnastics were just like you, all those little, I was just one of those kids with too much energy and like, let's.

Let's get some of that energy out. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: but then we had one of the like youth track programs where like, you know, in elementary school you could run and I really liked that and I'm been good at like power athletes type stuff. So I started to fall in love with track and I ran track all the way through middle school and high school and I was totally different from what I run now.

Like, I was long jump, triple jump and the sprints I like, I hated going anything over 200. Yeah. That's how I was. Um, so I was one of those people that like, I'm sorry, my warmup is 800 meters. [00:10:00] Like that's too much. I don't run that far. Yeah. much. And I, yeah. And I ended up actually doing that at Butler.

That was one of the biggest things. And one of my big tenets that I stand on actually as a music teacher is that you can be a musician and you can be an athlete. And I try and help my students know that they can participate in all of their sports and all of their activities. I've had students who play in my orchestra concert, like still in their, their sports gear.

Like I had a kid who was like wrestling, he had a match, came just threw his orchestra shirt on, like over his wrestling or whatever it's called. Yeah. Over his singlet. That's hilarious. Like played his part and then went back 'cause he had like another match. And so, I'm always here to make that work and I lived by that.

Like I ran track and I played soccer and I was, you know, taking piano lessons and cello lessons and in orchestra and in pit orchestra. And I wanted to do those things. And so that was actually part of Butler, Butler was one of the only schools that was like, you wanna be an athlete and you wanna be a music ed major?

Like, we can try and make that work.

Wow. And so I did. And I'm sure it's harder now. I feel like 2025 is a very different world from when I was a student, you know, when we were growing up and the, the pressure on sports and the pressure on [00:11:00] stuff. Mm-hmm. But I did, I made it work all four years. So I ran, a hundred, 200, four by one, long and triple for, for Butler.

Ally Brettnacher: Wow. Mm-hmm. I didn't know that. Yeah. Before we exchanged emails before this and I was like, oh. Okay. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah, that was my whole background. Um, it wasn't until I graduated and I realized they don't make like adult long jumping leagues. Like, that's 

Ally Brettnacher: not like a thing. I, I did the high jump for a hot second. Mm-hmm.

And I would love to see if I could still do that. Probably not at all. I would break my back. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. Well, and they don't have triple jump in school in Indiana. What is 

Ally Brettnacher: triple jump? Yeah. Tell me what that is. Okay. I don't know what that is. 

Johanna Kitchell: So it's like long jump. and except for it's longer.

So if you've ever been like a track and there's like boards, like the white line on the long jump pit, but it's really far away and you're like, nobody can long jump that far. That's for triple jump. So it's three phases, hence the triple. So you do a hop or a like a one foot to with the same foot. So like right to right.

So like literally like a hop. Okay. And then you do a step, or it literally looks like a bound, 'cause you're going from like, oh, okay. For instance, your right to your left foot and it's like this big step. then from that foot you [00:12:00] take off into the pit and you do it in one like. B,

BB, so it's hop step, jump into the pit.

So mine would've been like right to right for the, the jump, the hopped part I guess, and then right to left for the step and then left into the pit two feet for the jump. And so the distances are much further. So I am probably gonna get the distances wrong, but like, well I, Olympians are going, you know, 50 feet, , oh, in like, distance from their first, the first part of that first phase, we call 'em phases to the pit.

, And so like. That was that. But we had that when I was growing up in middle school and high school. So I did triple jump, as well as long jump. That's so interesting. Mm-hmm. Is it an east, it must be an east 

Ally Brettnacher: coast thing or why we have it 

Johanna Kitchell: here. I don't know why, but just I think different states have different things.

Like there are some states that have javelin in track in like high school and some states that don't. So I guess that's, I 

Ally Brettnacher: never really thought about it. Yeah. I just kind of al always thought they all did the same stuff

and just, no. I don't know. It was 

Johanna Kitchell: weird when I came out here, it was actually part of what helped with my recruiting with Butler was like, you already know how to triple jump.

Like, cool, okay, you're in. So that helped because they didn't have to teach [00:13:00] me how to triple jump. I already knew what to do. Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Well, 'cause, okay, so they have it at the collegiate level here. Mm-hmm. But not. Yeah. So, yeah. So that'd be so interesting. You've got all these people you probably have to teach.

Yep. 'cause if there's a lot of locals Yep. Um, that's especially like in 

Johanna Kitchell: Indiana. Yeah. Like there were people who were learning how to triple jump and I was like, I got this. And do you have 

Ally Brettnacher: siblings 

Johanna Kitchell: you say? I do. I have an older sister. Okay. she, is a runner as well and a musician. she actually moved out to Indianapolis about two and a half years ago, and so lives three blocks away

and

gets to see.

That's 

Ally Brettnacher: fun. 

Johanna Kitchell: my son and her nephew like all the time. So yeah, she works in the musical world. Our, our lives are kind of like a Venn diagram, so she is a musical theater person, is her like primary passion, but then she works in arts and man, , nonprofit management. So like she is super dedicated to, helping the arts and helping arts organizations and it's really cool.

So she worked in the theater world in New York for a while and then ended up, she works in, development, which is, working with donors and things like that. Yeah. For the Indianapolis Symphony. So it like, oh, even though her background isn't necessarily strings, [00:14:00] music and arts development is very much her world and so yeah.

Our lives have become this Venn diagram of like, she's working at the symphony and I know a bunch of people 'cause I'm a string player in the city. Yeah. And our lives, it's not, you know, complete overlap, but there's a lot of overlap that's really. 

Ally Brettnacher: Nice. Yeah, it's awesome to have her here. It awesome. How did you convince her to come?

Was it a combination of you being here like that her nephew's here and then the job? I think 

Johanna Kitchell: it's one of those, her journey is very, , long and incredible and has this, so many wild chapters that you wouldn't even believe that are just so cool and experiences that a lot of us don't have. And, as the pandemic was kind of moving through, New York City was a challenging place to be.

And, I mean the whole world was a challenging place to be, but New York especially. And she was thinking about what did she want as the next chapter for her. I, yeah, I had had a son. This job opened up and, family seemed to be like the right chapter for her. So when the job opened up and it seemed like an opportunity she'd be interested in, she took it.

Ally Brettnacher: What's her name? Elizabeth. Elizabeth probably should come on this podcast at some point. She would be great. You're listening. You would, I mean, 

Johanna Kitchell: you could [00:15:00] talk running for sure, but like, her life journey is so incredible.

Yeah. That, and that's have so much respect for it. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. So I'm always fascinated by New Yorkers.

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. And where is Al? Is Albany's upstate? It is, it's like two, two and a half, depending on how fast you drive. Okay. Um, north, hours north of New York City. Okay. Like straight up. Okay. So, we're actually really close to like the Massachusetts border and the Vermont border. So like you can easily go, I grew up skiing.

Okay. Our whole family skis.

Okay. And so, like, we grew up like you can easily get to the best mountains on the East Coast, like in a day trip. You wake up, eat breakfast at home, ski all day, and you're home by dinner. That's cool. So yeah, that's like the, one of the greatest things about Albany is its proximity to everything.

Like you're close to Montreal, Boston, New York City, Philadelphia, Vermont, like 

Ally Brettnacher: all 

Johanna Kitchell: of it, right? 

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Okay. That's a cool place to grow up and visit. Now you get to go back and visit. Yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: The visiting is like the nice part. Not that I don't like my hometown, but you know, it's nice to visit 'cause yeah. I get to see mountains and ski and visit things and it's great.

Yeah. And how old is your son? he is 

Audio and Video Aligned: almost 

Ally Brettnacher: four. He'll be four next month. He almost four already. Yeah. I know. It's wild. Okay. Yeah. So our youngest ones are close together. Yes. Yeah. Okay. That's so fun. [00:16:00] And what's his name? Noah. Noah. Mm. He likes to 

Johanna Kitchell: run. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That's good. I know, I just, because mommy and daddy run so Right.

I, I'm just trying to instill the love of the sport. Yes. And not push them into it, but I'm like, please love it. Yeah. I want you to love it, but I don't want you. Yeah. I don't know because I hated running when I was young 'cause I was a soccer player. Mm-hmm. And it was punishment. Yes. Yeah. Go do a lap of like, we had to 

Johanna Kitchell: go do like a perimeter is what we would get call, we had to go do a whole lap of all of the fields.

Yeah.

I hated that. Yeah. Yeah. No, he loves it. He always asks. so we had him, we signed him up for the, , the kids run. That's at the monumental, or not the monumental, the 500 kids deck. Oh yeah, I know. I missed that this year. Was that the rookie run? We, we did the rookie run and he was so excited and my husband told him me sign him up for a race.

And in, I think in my son's brain, like. It was long. Even though like for three year olds it's two blocks. I know the video, it is really eight seconds long. It's really short. But he wanted to practice and so he kept, 'cause he sees mommy and daddy train for their races. We have to tell him when we're going on a run.

Mm-hmm. He always goes like, go win. We're like, no, no, no. It's just a practice run. Oh, that's so cute. So then now he wants practice runs [00:17:00] and he's gone as far as like little over a mile. Oh. And he's tiny. He's got little legs and he is a little 3-year-old. And like, and you know, it's stop and go, but he is run a mile.

And I'm like, I, should I be proud? Should I be worried? Like, 

Ally Brettnacher: how far should a three yearold really be running? Right. Like however far they want, I think. I think, yeah. We don't 

Johanna Kitchell: push it. We don't, I don't, when we've done these longer ones, I'm never like, no, let's do more. I'm like, do you wanna stop? Because when he stops I go, are you all done buddy?

He goes, no, I wanna run more. Okay, then we'll go. Yeah. But the minute he's like, I'm tired. Like, nope, okay, we're done. We're just gonna walk home or we're gonna

do whatever. So, but he loves, he loves it. He loves getting into it and he had so much fun in 

Ally Brettnacher: the race and Oh, that's so cute. I. So I've done the monumental mile mm-hmm.

With my girls since Sydney was, since, since I joined the board of Beyond Monumental. Yeah. So that'd been 21. So ever since 2021 every year, me and my family do the monumental mile. Yeah. We do the community version, which is like, not competitive. There's so many people. It's so [00:18:00] fun. And, I think Sydnee, my oldest was like, she was probably three at the time that we did it, and it was kind of that age where you just know they, you know, if they see other people running, they might not want to hang out in the stroller.

Mm-hmm. And so that's where he's at. He won't sit in the stroller anymore. So she did it the first time she ran, and I'll never forget this, she didn't know what a finish line was. She's never done a race. Mm-hmm. Like how is she supposed to know? So she sees the monument at the end and she runs, she just keeps going.

She runs straight up the stairs and my husband had to go chase her. That's so cute. Because it was just so unexpected. Yeah. We're like stopping and then there she goes. 

Johanna Kitchell: I love that. Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: So now she knows. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: But now I have my, you know, four, my young one 4-year-old and she did it last year and she wasn't quite as into it as my oldest was.

Yeah. And so we just kind of walk ran. I had her on my shoulders at one point, like, but it's, I think 

Johanna Kitchell: we've been talking about signing up for Noah for this year, for the, for the 

Ally Brettnacher: community. You should, that's what I was getting at. Is, is the plug for that? Yeah. No, for sure. I don't know when this is coming out.

Joe 

Johanna Kitchell: pushed Noah in the stroller, I think last year, two years [00:19:00] ago. Okay. In the stroller mile or whatever. Maybe it was the community mile. It is. But all the stroller people like. You know, race. Yeah. And I think he won the stroller mile whatever year we did it. and then Joe keeps trying to, keep his old man streak of being under five minutes as long as he can.

Oh yeah man. So, he's fast. My husband is so fast. it's ridiculous. 

Ally Brettnacher: Under five minutes. It's hard to like imagine. Yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: His marathon pace is faster than I've ever rode a mile. It's, that's 

Ally Brettnacher: probably true for me as well. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure it's so insane. but I was talking to him like literally yesterday about like, Hey, I think we should do the community mile.

'cause I think Noah would, would totally get into it. So, and he does understand.

the

finish line at the rookie run. It was like a U-turn course. Yes. I, '

Ally Brettnacher: cause my oldest is on that one. Yep. And 

Johanna Kitchell: he's like running, he kind of runs hard and then he kind of like falls back with the rest of the kids and they turn the corner and you can see in the video he spots the finish line.

Oh. And he'll tell you. He goes, and then I turned on the jets and get outta here. He floors it and like has to like weave on the inside past the, like the pace mate that was trotting with him. It's like very Cole [00:20:00] Hawker. Yeah,

I know, I know. 1500 like kind of cut through the inside here to get, but he floors it to the finish line, so.

I think it might be worth checking it out. I think he, I think he would love it. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I think he would too. I think he's gonna be running. It's great. And, and the way that we've redesigned the course mm-hmm. Makes it more fun too. 'cause it used to just be a straight, straight shot. Yeah. I've done it a bunch of times and which is cool, but, but it's nice now.

It's kind of, it's just feels more, 

Johanna Kitchell: yep. 

Ally Brettnacher: I don't know. I think it kid like, it like turning, I think that is, turning is 

Johanna Kitchell: fun. Yeah. And I think also, um, and this is true, I've run monumental the marathon a couple times. Mm-hmm. You see the monument when you turn onto Meridian and you're like, I'm almost there.

And you like, your brain goes almost there and you. You're so far away. Yeah. So far. And I think the straight shot as cool as it was, is similar thing where you see the monument and you're like, oh, this is nothing I can run it. Yeah. And then like, somehow it's not getting closer and 

Ally Brettnacher: you just like wanna die.

Johanna Kitchell: Whereas if you have those couple turns, you're not quite having that same sense. And like you might pace it a little better, even though it's one mile, they're still pacing. You 

Ally Brettnacher: can still break it [00:21:00] down. Yeah. Easier I think. And it just gives, 

Johanna Kitchell: yeah. It's a little bit of a better mental situation, so 

Ally Brettnacher: I'm too afraid to, uh, race it.

I've not raced the mile. I don't know how fast I can run a mile. No idea. You should try it. I don't want to. I understand. It's, I think I, well I signed up to do the 5K this year. Mm-hmm. Because I did it one year

and I didn't do it last year. But I, I'm gonna try to do it again 'cause I think it's fun. Yeah.

To try to go fast. But Five Ks crush Me too. 5K are hard if you're racing it, I should say. Mm-hmm. It's not the distance, it's like the, the race. Mm-hmm. The speed at which you try to

do that. I have many 

Johanna Kitchell: five Ks where I've gone out way too hard. I haven't done a lot. 

I've seen, well I've done a lot. I've done a lot of sort of five Ks.

Yeah, mostly right. Just, just a hair over 5K. 

Ally Brettnacher: Good, good segue. Yeah, 

Johanna Kitchell: I would say I've done a million of races that are 3.17 miles just over that 5K mark just over. And for people who 

Ally Brettnacher: are like, why the hell is that distance? It's our area code. Yes. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. So, um, yeah, Indianapolis area code is 3.1 or 3 1 7. So there's a series of races [00:22:00] called the Run 3 1 7 and it is just over that 5K.

So I actually, I'm not sure I know what my 5K PR is 'cause I haven't run a 5K in a really long time. I've run a ton of 3.17. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. It's so funny. But it's so, I mean, it makes sense. Yeah. I love the marketing of it. It's cute. It's really fun. It's very cute. And they have how many 

Johanna Kitchell: now? We do a series of five races all summer.

so part of why I, I'm happy to talk about it. I'm one of the ambassadors. Um, my husband and I started running them. We actually ran our first one as part of our wedding festivities. So it was, well, of 

Ally Brettnacher: course you did. Yes. That's amazing. 

Johanna Kitchell: We're so ridiculous. Which one? Uh, we ran Fountain Square in 2015.

Okay. And I had to think about that and make sure I got that right. 'cause our 10 year anniversary is coming up. I was gonna say. Yeah. Awesome. Our 10 year anniversary is coming up, so we ran it in 2015, which was the second or third year of the series in general of the races. Okay. And, that was our first one.

And then about six years ago I became an ambassador. and so, we run all of the races now. We've run all of them for years. we just. As a couple. We like fell in love with the series. We love all of our friends go we actually have a babysitter, [00:23:00] it's like a date night for us. which is great.

Mm-hmm. It's like these built in things and since running is something that's so foundational to our relationship and who we are, it's just a really fun way to do it. so there's five races. One's already happened this year and then we have four more coming up. we have West Clay. Carmel is June 19th.

broad Ripple, which is exciting 'cause that's in our neighborhood. Mm-hmm. Um, we love running around Broad Ripple. July 10th, mass Ave, July 31st and Speedway in August 21st. And actually the Speedway course this year. It's really cool. We actually run inside the grounds of IMS Oh not on the track, but we'll actually be inside the fencing, in the grounds.

That's a really big deal. It's a huge deal. Yeah. There's only one other race in that gets on the track. Right. And so for us to be able to be inside the grounds is really cool and feels really like we start an end on Main Street and Speedway and it's great. Yeah. That's cool. Broder Bowl's Cool. Gonna start an end on, I think like right in the heart of Broder Bowl 

Ally Brettnacher: and is Broder Pole.

It's being brought back this year. It's being brought back this year, right? Mm-hmm. Did they take a break for a number of years? Yep. 

Johanna Kitchell: around the, like, they've been trying to find different neighborhoods and really try and like highlight what we think of in Indianapolis as like some of our quintessential neighborhoods.

Yeah. And Broder Pull was [00:24:00] on the, on the schedule for a while and then it was gone for a little bit, which happens and that's okay. And we explored some other neighborhoods and, um, we got a lot of feedback that like, you know, broad Ripple is one of those quintessential neighborhoods. It really is. Yeah. And I'm biased 'cause I've lived there for 15 years.

but I'm thrilled to see it back, so, yeah. Great. That's so exciting. 

Ally Brettnacher: It's on my birthday. Oh, what? July 10th? Wait, is that what you said? Ripple? Yeah. July 10th is Broad Ripple. So now I'm like, okay. Mm-hmm.

Because

I, I've done Fountain Square. Yep. Uh, a few years ago. That's the og. And then I did, West Clay 'cause it's right by my house. Mm-hmm. I'm like two, I'm not in the village, but I'm like two miles outside the village. Yeah. And so that was really fun. Yeah. I was thinking about hoping to do that one this year. but the birthday one, 

Johanna Kitchell: it's fun. I've done a couple on my birthday idea. I, I set my, again not a 5K PR, but my 3 1 7 PR Yeah.

on my

birthday

two years ago. Okay. And then actually that was also my husband's 40th was one of the ones we did in Lawrence that was his 40th. So we celebrated him becoming a master on his birthday at a run through one seven. Oh, that's 

Ally Brettnacher: so perfect. 

Johanna Kitchell: So like, I like made a [00:25:00] crown and I made sure that like the run through one seven crew like celebrated him when he crossed the finish line.

Yeah. And all that sort of stuff. So it was really fun. So we've had a couple birthdays, on races and it's, it's fun. Perfect. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. And so. For people who are listening. Mm-hmm. I don't know exactly when this will come out, but it'll come out in the midst of these, I would assume. Sure. And so like, how does that work?

So people who didn't sign up for all five at the beginning, you can still sign up 

Johanna Kitchell: for single races, you can 

Ally Brettnacher: sign up for single or is there like a three? There's a three pack. So if we, if 

Johanna Kitchell: this comes out and there's still three left, if it comes out before, what does it be? I guess July 10th. Yeah. you can still sign up for all three.

You can sign up for a single race. we're happy to have you. It's seriously like the best Thursday night party in the city. Yeah. we run, there's a dj, there's food vendors, there's, different things going on. You get two free drinks with your run mm-hmm. With your bib. it's just a really great like atmosphere and really fun to hang out and people like hang out for a while.

It's not like a race and then you walk away and you get in the car. Like people truly socialize for a long time and that's

one of the best parts of it. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. what was I thinking about?

Well, I was thinking about the party, like in the recovery stuff. Mm-hmm. At West Clay, like there were [00:26:00] Yep. Stretch Labs always there.

Norm, yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: Stretch Lab. And we had, at fountain Square just last week, we had one of the like cold plunge places. They had like the little cold plunge tubs, tubs set up. So like, directly after your race, you could like, hop in a cold plunge. Isn't that weird with like, other people 

Ally Brettnacher: getting in it? I mean, I don't know.

Kind of. I don't know if I would care at all,

but I don't know if I care. But I, I mean, if you're into it anyway, if you're into it, I've always, anyway, I digress, but I want, I've been wanting to try, yeah. I, I don't think I've done a cold plunge since high school. Like when you had to like college an injury.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. You know? Um,

You know, um, we used to 

Johanna Kitchell: cram like 10 of us, like the runners, we'd cram like 10 of us into the ice bath. 'cause we only ever needed our lower body. Right. So we would all just like stand there like s sardines 

Ally Brettnacher: together. That's, that's so funny to picture. Yeah. and then I was gonna ask about medals because have they always had medals or is that relatively new?

Johanna Kitchell: We've always had medals. Um, so you must have 

Ally Brettnacher: a million. 

Johanna Kitchell: I do. I do. And like, you know, we have 'em at home or we find some of the charities that take the medals that use them for like No, you don't donate children's hospitals. I'm 

Ally Brettnacher: sorry, at children's hospitals. I can't donate. I do, 

Johanna Kitchell: I do for like, anything that's under a half.

I don't always [00:27:00] keep. Some of like those special ones. Like I do have some like, like I think the one that I set my pr I've kept that one. Yeah. I ran the mini 10 K, which is like one of the oldest women's races in the country. It's in New York City. I kept that medal. but some of the run through on seven ones or other things like that, we end up like accumulating a lot.

Yeah. And so, well, and you 

Ally Brettnacher: have two of everywhere. And there's two of

Johanna Kitchell: them.

Of them. Yeah. so we'll find ways to help support them, but we've always had the metals. We try and do different designs. We had a spinner one, two years ago. Yeah. They're really cool. 

Ally Brettnacher: That's why I'm like getting rid of those.

They're all beer openers 

Johanna Kitchell: too. They're all openers. Yeah. There you go. So

if

you need an opener, um, one of our guys that works for, vision event management, he was saying that, uh, he keeps one in like every cooler, every backpack smart. So he always has an opener on 

Ally Brettnacher: him. Right. Or just like wear a medal all the time.

Yeah. I mean, you know, you could, yeah. I mean, it's a Monday, but 

Johanna Kitchell: every 

Ally Brettnacher: day, every day. Just all the time.

Oh

gosh, that's so funny. And so do you display your medal somewhere at home? 

Johanna Kitchell: We have our half and our full medals on display. Okay. So again, my husband being very fast, his full and half display is very fancy.

There's multiple Boston ones on there and some other [00:28:00] really great races. but we have like one of those like things that just has the bibs and all the metals hang out. Yeah. Yeah. So anything that's like a full or a half we have on display. I have my mini 10 K on there and then everything else is like in a box.

We each have like a Joe running and a Johanna running 

Ally Brettnacher: box. That's really funny. And you probably have college stuff then too,

right? I do. I have. How do you get in college? 

Johanna Kitchell: You know, 

Ally Brettnacher: get medals and stuff? Yeah, I mean, 

Johanna Kitchell: unless you like placed, like if you placed in like, you know, big East championship or whatever, there's usually some hardware and stuff.

Yeah. But I have some old medals from like middle school and high school when I ran like U-S-A-T-F, like youth nationals and stuff, or regionals and stuff like that. So I have some of that, like that's pretty cool. Buried. Buried in some ribbons that are Yeah. Meaningful or when I like placed in our state meet, things like that.

So yeah, I have some of that stuff still buried somewhere in a box.

Yeah. I either here at my parents' house, but, uh, yeah, you don't get like a medal every time you finish the a hundred meter dash, 

Ally Brettnacher: right? Can you imagine? That would be really funny. Like so many. Well, and I, I, I forget why I was going through stuff, but I found I have like field day medals.

That's how impressive I am. Okay. Oh yes. Like it is like these random participation ribbons. I'm here for that. There were some that had places [00:29:00] on it, but it's like really funny to look back and be like, God, I don't even remember. No. That part of my life. that's so funny. And then I wanna talk about. I, I was just trying to decide if I wanna leave run 3 1 7 yet, but that's, but we can come back to it.

We always can. I was gonna ask, or I was gonna say, okay. No, I was gonna look at the number of races you've done. Yeah. Okay. So I don't know if this is up to date. Okay. Is it up to date on your Instagram? 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. I mean, five Ks and 10 Ks, I have no idea. 1,000,005 K, especially if you count the run through.

And seven as a 5K. I've run like a hundred because there's like five every year, every every year. And I've run 'em for like 10 or 11 years. So that's just that alone plus like Turkey trots and stuff. Geez. So I've run a lot, lot of 5K ish to like seven mile type races. Yeah. But yeah, I've, the numbers there are correct.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Okay. So it's 13.1. We've done nine times. Yep. And then four marathons. Four. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes. That's amazing. 

Johanna Kitchell: It is. It's fun. Like I've had some weird gaps in like those racing and we can talk about

I'm that's on the list, like baby, 

Ally Brettnacher: you know, and stuff like that. Yeah. Baby and 

Johanna Kitchell: other things. but yeah, I've run nine and a half marathons and [00:30:00] four falls officially.

So 

Ally Brettnacher: officially What 

Johanna Kitchell: does that officially, I don't know. I guess like, well, with a half marathon, like, it's funny because when you're training for a full, oh, you run a half marathon every weekend, all the, does that count all? So like Right. 

Ally Brettnacher: You run four. I know some people who

count it that way. Yeah. And some people, I, I am a weirdo and I do not count.

That does not count, count. Don't you know, although I 

Johanna Kitchell: will say my half PR is in one of my fulls, so that's nuts because I just 

Ally Brettnacher: like, I feel like that you can count. 

Johanna Kitchell: Okay. 

Ally Brettnacher: So maybe I've run 10, I don't know. Yeah. So there you go. Or mean, or I would count the time. I don't know. Yeah. And 

Johanna Kitchell: I didn't list it. Like my, like half PR that's like listed is not actually my half PR because I ran it like in the middle of a full and I was like,

no,

those are just some splits that Strava put together.

Like, does that count? Right? You're like, 

Ally Brettnacher: that total, I got a crown or something like on there. Yeah. Does that count? So, yeah. Yeah. Oh man. 3 38. That's, is that getting, that's pretty close to a dq. How old are you? So close. Sorry. Is that, that's okay. No, no, no. It's totally 

Johanna Kitchell: fine. I tell my students all the time.

I am on my way to 39, so I'll be 39 this summer. Okay. That's old. I, so what's wild is actually at the end of August, my birthday is at the end of August. as of the end of August, beginning of September, I start [00:31:00] qualifying for the 40-year-old Boston. Right. I gain, I gained some time, although they dropped it, so 

Ally Brettnacher: it's literally the same as what it was.

So, wait, okay. So when you turn, have I gotten this confused in my head? So I turned 39. Mm-hmm. This summer, 

Johanna Kitchell: as far as I am aware, and I've done some research, it is your age on race day, not your, on Boston Race Day, not your age when you qualify. So like, let's say you ran monumental this fall. Okay. You would, you could use that time to qualify for Boston 2027 or whatever in which you would be 40, let's say.

Oh.

Oh.

Oh, oh, I am confused. So I thought I had, you can run it to wait until next year. You can run it at a younger age when you maybe have it and qualify. It's your age on race. I kind of forget race because I'm 

Ally Brettnacher: thinking about already 2026. Yeah, but this is not, you've already, that's already all been done.

It's already done, yes. Which I got confused. Wow. Or no, and 

Johanna Kitchell: maybe it's still open, but like most fall marathons are for 2027, like I think it's open still now for, for Boston 26. But like those of us that are looking at fall marathons, monumental, Chicago, New York, et cetera, you are looking at qualifying for 2027.

I see. In which I'll [00:32:00] be 40, so I will qualify, hopefully, maybe we'll see. Yeah. At the 40-year-old age. Okay. So I thought I was really gonna gain some time, but then they dropped the qualifier, so now it's exactly the same time as it was when I was. Under 40. You're 

Ally Brettnacher: so dumb. Which is fine. Well, it's not dumb.

It's just like annoying. I get Yeah, we don't have to get 

Johanna Kitchell: into like the, there's been so much rehashing of the foster qualifying 

Ally Brettnacher: times. It's like, okay, I, I would love it to if they just made it really, really hard. Yeah. And like if you get in, you're in. Yeah. Because I just hate the idea that you get in you and then you not, and you have to wait and, 

Johanna Kitchell: and, and, and hope.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That's, I think that's dumb. I don't like that. So 

Johanna Kitchell: that's, yeah. So my 3 38, and I wasn't aiming for that 3 38. I thought I was gonna be in the three forties. It just, happened, but 

Ally Brettnacher: amazing. 

Johanna Kitchell: yeah, so 3 38, my qualifying time would've been 3 35, so yeah. So that's 

Ally Brettnacher: pretty darn close. But 

Johanna Kitchell: it was one of those, like, I wasn't thinking that I had 3 35 in my legs, so I wasn't,

it

wasn't like I was aiming for 3, 3, 5 and fell off.

It was, it was very much the under. I was aiming for like a 3 45, maybe a 3 42, and I ended up with a 3, 3 8. Yeah. So it was like, oh man, like. I guess I'm actually really close. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll see. It is a goal. [00:33:00] Eventually I would like to run Boston. Same. Um, again, having a husband who has run it, he's run it on course three times and he's run it off course twice.

So once was the pandemic. Yeah. Where he did like the virtual and then the other, um, my husband's a veteran. And he was in, uh, army National Guard for 10 years and was deployed 2017 to 2018. He was in Kuwait. And a lot of these big races, the mini does it, here in Indianapolis and several of the big marathons.

They send these like customized like race packages essentially to military bases. And they'll help them like lay out a course and they have like banners and specialized bibs and medals and stuff. Oh. So my husband ran, he loves to say he won the Boston Marathon in 2018 because he won the Boston Marathon Kuwait version in 2018.

That's 

Ally Brettnacher: really cool. 

Johanna Kitchell: I would count that. I know, like he has, like, he's, he had, there's like a photo of him breaking the tape on base and like, oh, that's really freaking cool. It's really cool. So he ran it on base in 2018, in Kuwait.

Ally Brettnacher: Wow. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. So he, he won the Kuwaiti Boston Marathon in 2018. 

Ally Brettnacher: Well, gosh, [00:34:00] congratulations Joe.

I know, right? And, and thank you for your service. Yeah. That's wild. Yeah. I didn't realize he was a veteran. I mean, I probably saw it at some point. It's somewhere it's, but you know, that's, yeah. That's really cool. 

Johanna Kitchell: Mm-hmm. Kuwait. 

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. That'd be a really hard place to run a marathon. It's very, 

Johanna Kitchell: it's very hot.

So they started at 4:00 AM local time because of the heat, because even in April, 'cause they ran it around the same time. I don't think it was the same day. Yeah. But it was like somewhere in that like march, April-ish time. I think like it's already getting up to a hundred degrees in the middle of the day.

Mm-hmm. So they literally started at 4:00 AM ku 80 time and. So he basically, like, I think he said he went to bed, tried to go to sleep, slept for a couple hours, and then like had to be up at like 1:00 AM to run it. 

Ally Brettnacher: Wow. Wild. To get 

Johanna Kitchell: himself ready and like it 

Ally Brettnacher: was a win 

Johanna Kitchell: to win the Boston Marathon Kuwait edition.

Ally Brettnacher: That's really cool. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. He got to run a couple, like, I think he ran like, I'm gonna get it wrong, but either like one of the Peachtree or, you know, like the cherry blossom, like one of like some of like those major races he ran, he won the mini that, you know Yeah. Quote unquote won the mini 

Ally Brettnacher: that year, but Kuwait edition, I didn't know they did that for veterans.

Johanna Kitchell: Mm-hmm. 

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. That's really cool for active [00:35:00] military and they like send you stuff and they, 

Johanna Kitchell: and they will certify the course. So he actually used that time, that qualified and for Boston 2019 where he actually was home and ran it on course in 2019.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh

Mm-hmm. 

Johanna Kitchell: Interesting. Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: Wow. That's, wow. It's cool.

Johanna Kitchell: It's a cool thing that they do for our service members. Yeah. So that they like those that are interested in running or just want that experience. You, you do have some downtime depending on what your job is and what your role. Mm-hmm. And so my husband got, had a fair amount of training time. There's not a lot to do, like hobby wise and you're not really with your family and stuff, so.

Right. What

else are you gonna do? I'm gonna go run. Yeah. If you're not working. Yeah. yeah, so it was cool for him and then he got to. You know, use that time. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Well, I wanna hear more race stories from you. Okay. But first I wanna back up Sure. And I wanna talk about how you met Joe. Yeah. Did you guys meet up, did he go to Butler?

No. Okay. He, 

Johanna Kitchell: his degree, he was IPY when it was IPY. Okay. Um, his degree is an IU degree, so he was in the Kelly School. Um, okay. In Indianapolis. We met through friends, in Broad Bowl. No, uh. I mean, the real story is fine. I don't mind telling it. I was dating somebody else. He asked for my number and then never called me, but we were like in the same [00:36:00] circle of friends.

It's fine. Funny. Um, we in. Thanks, Joe. Cool. Yeah, it's cool. I mean, you know, he figured it out eventually. Yeah. we were in the same circle of friends for like two years and it was very much like a right place and right time and right person. So he, you know, I was dating somebody else. He was not necessarily like ready for a serious relationship.

I wasn't ready for one after, you know, like different things like that. Then he went off to basic training and so, it kind of had to, we circled around each other for a couple years before we started dating. And then we started dating, because one of our mutual friends created a dodgeball team for like Circle City Athletics 

Ally Brettnacher: done that.

Oh. We probably played dodgeball against each other. I'm sure 

Johanna Kitchell: we did. Um, like 20, not good. 11 to like 2014. Yeah. We were doing tons of dodgeball. Yep. it was what, like Thursday nights at Park Tutor or whatever? Yep, yep, yep. I'm sure we played. Totally. And um, so that's actually how we ended up like getting to actually spend time together and.

Like start dating. Yeah. but yeah, we knew each other going back all the way, like

Ally Brettnacher: maybe

2009 ish. Okay. That's so similar to my story with my husband when I met him for the first time. Met him through coworkers. Mm-hmm. Because he replaced me when I left my first [00:37:00] job outta college. He was hired as my replacement, but we never worked together directly, but I still was friends with people who worked there.

So we met at like a. Pumpkin carving or like at lunch, like one of those times we first met, I was dating somebody else. Yep. And I remember he's like, well, maybe I'll see you in BPO sometime. And I'm like, cool. Yeah.

Probably not like I'm dating someone else. But then like right after I broke up with that guy, it was like a month or two later and then we, I I wanted to be single.

Yeah. I was ready to be single. It'd been three years. but it just went zero to 60. Yep. And here we are. And we got married in 2014. Okay. Yeah. So we celebrated 10 years last year. Congratulations. And we just celebrated. I was like, what month is it? We just celebrated our 11th. There you go. Anniversary.

Yeah, ours is coming up in October, so, yeah. So what are you guys gonna do? 

Johanna Kitchell: I don't know. We're going to Denver this summer for a few days. We are horrible at taking vacations. We are like true millennial, alcoholic type people. and so we're horrible at taking vacations. So we have flights to Denver in July.

Okay. and then probably actually like our, and I know we'll end up talking about it, but like our, our anniversary is gonna be like being in Chicago for Chicago [00:38:00] Marathon weekend. Oh. 'cause so much of our life, like so many of our like big moments revolve around running. Yeah. So they're like vacations and date nights and stuff for us.

Yeah. So we'll be in Chicago about 10 days before our, we

like our anniversary, so. Okay. 

Ally Brettnacher: Wait, when's your anniversary? 24th. Of October. Of October. And so run 3 1 7. It used to be more spread out. It used to be. Okay. I was like so confused. Assuming that used was over the summer. Yeah, we 

Johanna Kitchell: used to. No, we used to have them, it used to be a little bit more spread out.

We would have some in May and we would, we would stretch out like maybe five, six weeks between races. Mm. This year is actually the most condensed that it is. It's three weeks from every race to the next one. Yeah. Um, so it's real tight, which I don't mind from my schedule. It's nicer to not have them during the school year.

And we only have one during school this year. Totally. Yeah.

But yeah, so we actually had, some of them used to be in October and we would actually like hand out like glow sticks and stuff 'cause it would be dark by the time we were finishing running. so we would hand out glow sticks. We would encourage people to bring like their, like, you know, light up and their headlamps and stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. And the party would be like, kind of in the dark afterwards, but now it's kind of fun. A little 

Ally Brettnacher: bit tighter, which is fine. Yeah. Interesting. Okay, cool. Yeah. Yeah. So your 10th 

Johanna Kitchell: wedding anniversary, 10th is coming up in Chicago.

Be in Chicago, yeah. With, you know, 50,000 of our best [00:39:00] friends. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Perfect. I mean, what better way, because again, like you said, your relationship is so Yeah. Tied around running because you both love it. Mm-hmm. I ran the Chicago Marathon with my husband, Zach. I forget what year. It would've been 11 or 12 maybe. And that was the, he was like, I'm one and done with the full marathon.

So I'm like trying to like slowly, I totally

thought I was too. I was like, totally wanna get him back. But, we'll see. He, he'll do the mini, he didn't do it this year, but he usually does the mini and Joe did the mini for the 

Johanna Kitchell: first time this year. Not the first time. Like first time in a long time. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Johanna Kitchell: So he did it this year. Yeah. was he an elite? Probably. He was 93rd overall. Okay, cool. Out of like it was it 20,000 runner? It's not fair. Yeah, 

Ally Brettnacher: it's not fair. And they stopped, 

Johanna Kitchell: I heard 

Ally Brettnacher: they 

Johanna Kitchell: stopped doing the double medals I think. I think so. 'cause he didn't come home with two, which I kind of bummed about.

Ally Brettnacher: am so disappointed

because he had worked early in the world. He was working 

Johanna Kitchell: hard. 

Ally Brettnacher: I know. How can you just do that and then just stop? I know because I told this, this guy Sal, who was on this podcast es Camillo, he is, really fast. And I was like, you're gonna get another medal. Yeah. And so [00:40:00] he said afterwards I felt so bad.

He's like, I was just like trying to find the other medal. Like nobody gave me two medals. That's a bummer. And I, I just thought,

I guess it had something to do with the sponsorship. Five sponsor listening.

Come on, find a new sponsor. What are you doing? Get back to this double medal thing. 'cause it's cool.

How can you just skip it for a year? That's so mean. It's part of the tradition. Yes. 

Johanna Kitchell: I don't 

Ally Brettnacher: like that. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah, he was super, he's

again, he's really fast. People always ask like, oh my God, do you guys run together? And I'm like, we run simultaneously. Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: My really super hard workout is his easy run. No, it really is though.

Oh my 

Johanna Kitchell: god. It's ridiculous. Yeah. we run simultaneously, we'll like high five on the monon when we pass each other. That's cute. And um, we once handed off, we had a dog for a long time. We once handed off the dog. She literally u-turned we were passing and he threw the leash and I caught it and the dog U-turned and went off with me and she's been like, thank God.

Yeah, probably. Um, but we have run I think precisely like three total miles actually together. But I've been getting a little faster and hopefully I'm gonna be getting faster again soon. Yeah. And

my, if I can get down, like I have a goal of like a one 40 half and [00:41:00] he could base me on that. Okay. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That's nice.

Johanna Kitchell: Where it would be. It'd be comfortable for him, but not painfully slow and it would be work for me. Yeah. Um, 'cause he paces, he does a lot of pacing work and he's paced some one 40 halves and he's paced some like three 20 marathons. So, which is a one 40 half. And so just, just wild. I know that pacing work for him.

Yeah. Where it would be work, hard work for me. Yeah. So it's a goal. 'cause I just like, I don't know that he finds that very exciting as like a prospect, but I think it'd be really cool to have my husband pace me in and a half. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Right. I know and I'd just be like, everything I say, just don't hold it against me when it's hard.

Johanna Kitchell: No. And he's like, I mean he is the one that like convinced me to as we, you know, again, no adult long jumping leagues. Like he, as we started dating, I would run a mile or so here or there and then we started dating and he, you know, our first, this is so nerdy. Oh my god. This is how nerdy we are. Um, I love it.

You're in the right place for this. Some of our first workout or our first dates were workouts 'cause he was training for monumental and he had a weird work schedule at the time. And so he was doing speed work on like Fridays and long runs on Mondays. And so we would do Friday night speed works at [00:42:00] iu, like IPI, whatever you wanna call it now, iu Indy's track.

which is where Butler used to host meets too. So I was really familiar with that track 'cause I spent four years running around that track or jumping on that track. And so we used to do speed work where like he would do these eight hundreds and I would do 400 with him and then like trot and then like we would try to lap and then he, we would do the next one and then like go get dinner.

And those were literally some of our first dates. It's so silly. It's so adorable. We took engagement photos, like in running clothes on the track. Yeah. At IUPY. So, yeah. I had like almost even forgotten about some of that. That's so funny. But that's like all we have 

Ally Brettnacher: ever run together. 'cause he's too fast for me.

Yeah, 

Johanna Kitchell: well it's 

Ally Brettnacher: okay. It's okay. At least you can, yeah. You're gonna be, it helps to have somebody help you then. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. And he's like, again, he's just always been encouraging. Like as we were dating and stuff, he was like, you can totally run a half marathon. You can Totally. So my first half was the mini. in would've been 2013. Sounds right. Okay. And I was like, I'm never doing that again. And then I totally signed up for another one like a few weeks later. so that's kind of like how it got started was him being into it and 

Ally Brettnacher: convincing me that I could [00:43:00] Perfect. And. A lot of the races you've done appear to be local.

Yeah. Mostly. So you've done Geist? Mm-hmm.

indie Half. Mm-hmm. At Fort Ben? Yep. What else? What other race? I've done the monumental half. Monumental half. Of course. Yep. Um, I did 

Johanna Kitchell: Noblesville. I don't know if they still have it. They don't. Okay. Because I did the Noblesville, I did that once. I did that one once.

I'm trying to think. 

Ally Brettnacher: I shouldn't say such conviction. They don't, I don't think they've brought it back. Yeah, I've not seen it. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. Several of mine were geist. several of those nine half marathons were geist. Yeah. So, I have at the school, at Riverside, we have a running club, called Healthy Hawks and I love that so much.

We're the Golden Hawks. So we're Healthy hawks. I didn't start the club. some incredibly wonderful women, start who were teachers at Riverside. They started it and when they left Riverside, they asked if I would take it over. So I think I've been doing it for about 10 years now. Um, 10 years. Mm-hmm.

That sounds about right. Nine or 10 years at the club. And so for a long time we ran the geist races. We trained up for the Geist races. So we did the 5K, the 10 K, and I would actually have kids run the half. Wow. And so we would run on Tuesdays and Thursdays after school, and then Saturdays the half kids, and then for a few of them, the [00:44:00] 10 K kids, we would meet at the Monan Center in Carmel.

And we would run up and down the Monan and I would like loop them. So I would run some of the kids if they were my pacer a little, I had a couple boys occasionally they were faster. they would do their own thing and we would talk about where the turnaround point was. Mm-hmm. And we would do these out and backs on the monan.

And then some of the slower kids, I would run up ahead of them, turn around, run back behind them, like ways turn around and run. So like they might be doing eight miles. And I ended up with like 11 just from like looping these kids. Right. but we had many kids over the years, finish the half marathon at Geist, which like, it's not an easy one, it's hilly.

Right. And they would do a, a solid job on it. So several of my halves are running Geist. Wow.

That's actually my PR is a hilly geist, which is nuts. I 

Ally Brettnacher: know some pe I, I know others that have PRS there. Yeah. And you're like, how? 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. So, now that Geist moved to the fall, it's not conducive to our school schedule for Healthy Hawks, but, um, we still have Healthy Hawks in the spring semester and the Hamilton Southeastern Foundation, which is like a school foundation, does grants and stuff.

And the Lawrence Foundation, they used to partner with Geist and now they've created their own race. It's a [00:45:00] 5K, at Connor Prairie called the Prairie Dash. And so now my Healthy Hawks kids, we do the Prairie Dash. Okay. So we do 

Ally Brettnacher: a 5K. I've never heard of that one. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah, it's small. It's in, it just did.

Its we do had its third year. Okay. Um, so it's primarily geared towards, the school groups that used to do or maybe are looking to get started. Yeah. it's at Connor Prairie, it's a 5K on the grounds. That's so cool. Which is really cool. And, the proceeds benefit both the HSE Foundation and the Lawrence Foundation.

Ally Brettnacher: Love that. So 

Johanna Kitchell: that's what we train up for. And it's really cool because. I think one of the greatest things about Healthy Hawks is it's an, it's an option for students who want to do something but aren't necessarily going to do a team sport. yeah, we do get some kids who ran track or ran cross country or soccer or whatever.

Mm-hmm. we have walkers and we have kids who are doing walk run programs and some of the kids are running, but they're just not, they might not be on our track team in the spring and they might not be doing that stuff, but it still gets them up and out and moving.

Yes. And so it really is this all comers, club. I'm 

Ally Brettnacher: obsessed 

Johanna Kitchell: and I love it because it's so great to see everybody out there. Yeah. Like, you know, we have fifth graders all the way up through eighth graders, and sometimes their parents come and they'll park, you know, like they'll arrive at [00:46:00] the end of the day at the dismissal bell and they'll come and get their workout with us.

and so Riverside has really, we have huge property and we have grounds that we can run on in trails and stuff. Mm. And so it's really cool. So we, um, we're out there two days a week after school, in the spring, getting ready for this 5K and we have a little training plan for the kids. And it is awesome to see some of these kids who Yeah.

They don't think that they could ever run three miles, um Right.

And they finish the race and the pride on their faces is amazing. Yeah. Amazing. Three 

Ally Brettnacher: miles is a lot. Yeah, it absolutely is. Yeah. And can we talk about my issue with my, the middle school my kid's gonna eventually go to? Do you remember that?

Yeah. How they do it Timed and then your grade. Yeah. Like is based, based on your time. No, I don't like that at all. I, I was like, what? No. So in our school system, I don't know. I'm not very familiar with the middle school. I don't, because my kid is still in elementary school. I feel 

Johanna Kitchell: like my PE teachers PE and health teachers are like, they look for commitment and they're like maybe looking for like growth over the year.

Yeah. Because I'll have students come in and they'll be like, oh my gosh, Mrs. 'cause they know I'm running. They'll be like, oh my gosh, Mrs. Rol. Like, I ran, we ran the mile [00:47:00] today and I dropped 30 seconds. I'm like, that's amazing. Good job. You know, and I'm here to celebrate it. I don't care what that 30 seconds was and like what it was before and what it is now.

Like I don't care. I'm happy to celebrate you. but yeah. Having like your grade based on your time is not okay. 

Ally Brettnacher: And I was thinking about that. Like even if okay, let's say they like put a plan together and they're doing mm-hmm. I'm just like, I still don't care. Yeah. I don't care if you train for it. I don't, it should never be about the time.

No, that would be 

Johanna Kitchell: like me saying that only my like, top player gets an A in orchestra. Like my best violinist gets an A and everybody else gets like a B. Like no, if you're, that is the dumb practicing dumb. Yeah. I don't like it. 

Ally Brettnacher: so I gotta figure out, I have the email address of the, the guy who has the program.

I think he inherited it from what I hear. Like I've gotten a lot of hearsay. I've not spoken to anybody who owns this program. Yeah. But I need to, so that from a teaching 

Johanna Kitchell: standpoint, I would say like approach with question. Like, Hey, can you help me understand? Just tell me understand this is what I've heard.

Is this true? Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: Right. It's like I'm not trying to, yeah. rip anybody apart, but I'm trying to have kids love the sport and that's not the way mm-hmm. To have kids love the sport. No. So I gotta figure out, I would [00:48:00] love to do, there's certainly, I think for middle school and stuff, there's, there's running club.

Mm-hmm. Within Carmel. But like for younger kids, like my daughter, she is seven, almost eight. And she wants to do a 5K. Yeah. Mainly 'cause there was a Taylor Swift one, which we missed, which I messed that up. She's pretty mad at me. Mm-hmm. cause I was just assuming it was later in the summer of the year, I didn't pay attention.

that's why the con of prayer, I was like, oh, that'd be a good one. Yeah. Like it's 

Johanna Kitchell: all kids. Like Yeah. It's mostly, you know, there are adults running, but It's a lot of kids and it's geared towards the kids. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I love that. 

Johanna Kitchell: Um, so it was a really fun one. So yeah, that'll be May. It's every May, so, okay.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That's really cool. 

Johanna Kitchell: You can aim for it next year too. Yeah, 

Ally Brettnacher: totally. I hope, you know, I hope she wants to. Yeah. So, and it'd be so fun to like, get her to run with me a little bit. Mm-hmm. One can only dream. Mm.

So Geist, indie Indy, half, how many times have you done indie? Half, maybe twice. 

Johanna Kitchell: I don't, I can't 

Ally Brettnacher: remember.

Right. Yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: At least, at least once. Maybe twice. The Hills Feel, feel a little too familiar to say only once. So Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. There you go. I, we are our 30th [00:49:00] year this year for that. And it used to be, have a full marathon as well. Now it's the half and our 10 K. Yep. great. It's so much fun. 

Johanna Kitchell: Mm-hmm. 

Ally Brettnacher: Much fun. Oh, and I've 

Johanna Kitchell: been 

Ally Brettnacher: a few 

Johanna Kitchell: times recently, like my husband will run it or pace it, 

Ally Brettnacher: and 

Johanna Kitchell: so we've been there, like my son and I'll go and cheer and 

Ally Brettnacher: yeah, it's so fun.

Hang out. It's 

Johanna Kitchell: a cool, it's a cool race. And then, yeah, my first was the mini, that was fun. And then I, I've done the monumental half. Noblesville. Yeah. I think that'll ends up accounting with the number of times I've run. Right.

One that account 

Ally Brettnacher: and then for full marathons. Mm-hmm. You've done monumental, I'm assuming

Hey, real quick, if you didn't know this already. I am also the owner of a small business called Athlete Bouquets, and I make gifts for runners think edible arrangements, but with all the running goodies for somebody before or after a race. And you can find my website@athletebouquets.com. If you use Code Podcast, you'll get 10% off your order, and shipping is always free, so go buy something. Thank you for your support and thanks for listening. [00:50:00] Now back to the show. 

Ally Brettnacher: and then for full marathons. Mm-hmm. You've done monumental, I'm assuming

twice.

Twice. Caramel. Caramel. And then de Detroit. Detroit. Oh, I ran the caramel half. That was another one. There we go. It was half. Yeah. I was 

Johanna Kitchell: like, I ran that one at 23 weeks pregnant. Caramel half. Okay. 

Ally Brettnacher: Boom. Let drop. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. It went well. It like went better than I thought it was gonna go. I had no, that was one of those like, no time.

No, don't care. Yeah. Um, but yeah. Sorry. I had forgotten about, I ran the caramel half when I was Wow. 

Ally Brettnacher: 2023. Just about 23 weeks pregnant. Yeah. That's, I'm trying to remember how far along I, it was probably similar when I was pregnant with my first mm-hmm. I did the mini and I was visibly pregnant, but not like super pregnant.

Yeah. I think I made it. Probably just barely after that in terms of running, I just finally was like, okay, I'm not comfortable doing it any like, and just, I just physically didn't enjoy it. I made it about 

Johanna Kitchell: 28, 29 weeks. Yeah. And then kind of had to shut it down and I kept walking a lot, but I couldn't up that pace.

There was just something about that that just wasn't working for me. It was so 

Ally Brettnacher: uncomfortable with the Yeah. Yeah. But I made it like, I actually 

Johanna Kitchell: ran, I had to, I had to stop to the bathroom twice on that half because, you [00:51:00] know, but I ran the whole thing, like I didn't walk. That's so cool. The caramel half.

That's cool. That was cool. 

Ally Brettnacher: So cool. Um, but 

Johanna Kitchell: yeah, so sorry. So monumental 2017 monumental. 2018 caramel fold 2019 and then Detroit 2023. 

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. 

Johanna Kitchell: Those are my, what made you pick Detroit? I, um. This is gonna be, I'm, we're talking about my husband a lot, but I'm gonna give him a shout out, like a really positive one.

I was struggling with not coming back to running postpartum like I did, but I was struggling with feeling like I had any direction on it. I was just kinda like going out for runs. And my husband was, uh, we both run, well at the time he was in PBT. I hadn't officially joined PBT yet. I know you've had Matt Ebersol on Yeah.

Will you tell people what PBT is real quick? PBT is personal best training. It's a coaching and running club, uh, here in Indie, um, but also nationwide. You can be, or I guess worldwide, Joe ran with PBT and kut. Yeah. so you can, Matt Ebersol's the coach. I know he's been on the podcast. Yes. And you've had Robert Jackson on the podcast.

Mm-hmm. So, it's a great group of runners. all on, on all comers. There are people of all different abilities, a lot of fast people, but a lot of, people who are running and working on their own goals. Mm-hmm.

so he was already doing [00:52:00] that and I felt like I just had no direction and it was like, I'm never gonna be fast.

I'm never gonna, I, and um. So to Joe's credit, he kind of pushed me to like finally join, officially join PBT. my sister, bless her, was very much like, you're gonna go do this. And I'm gonna, they work out, we work out on Tuesdays is like our fast day workout. And she like babysits our son every Tuesday so that I could go.

So it wasn't just one of us getting to go run, or having to do the workout by ourselves or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And then, um, my husband actually took the time to look up marathons within driving distance that were over fall break. Oh. Which was really nice. Like really sweet of him. Smart. And so he was like, I look, I see this one, this one, this one, this one.

And Detroit seemed cool 'cause it's the one where you get to run into Canada and back. Super like cool. It's really cool. Yeah. So I was like, that seems really fun. I'm gonna, and like I had heard actually really cool things about Detroit. It's got great music history, so I was interested in seeing that. Mm.

my husband and I both really like Detroit style pizza, so we're like, that would be great. Like postrace fuel. So, um, let's do it. So I signed up for Detroit and um, what is that drive? 

Ally Brettnacher: Four 

Johanna Kitchell: hours for you? Yeah. It was like a little more [00:53:00] than four hours. Yeah. So it really wasn't bad. Um, the marathon itself was, it was very well organized and run.

running over the international bridge at dawn was like really cool. The sun was rising and you could see just like everything, you could see Canada, you could see Detroit, you could see your running over the river. They have the entire bridge shut down in one direction, like this major shipping bridge.

Wow.

Like and,

and do

you 

Ally Brettnacher: have to carry your passport? 

Johanna Kitchell: Yes. You do. Well, you have to carry id id, so if you have.

an ID not just like the, the new fancy real IDs. Yeah. Like you have to have a special one, um, that a lot of border states have. New York has them Michigan, but Indiana doesn't. So you do either have to have that special ID or you do have to run with your passport.

So I ran with my passport on me because they, they do say they could stop you at any time if they think you're like trying to like cross the border. Yeah. so I, um. I have, um, one of the koala clip things that holds your phone. Yep. And so I just slid my passport right in there and on my back. Oh, that fit perfectly.

Yeah, it did. It fit perfectly in the Koala clip. but when you're crossing over the bridge, they literally had a line of like border patrol and they were like, their eyes were just scanning back and forth. They're just looking for your bib, making sure 

Ally Brettnacher: that [00:54:00] you're not just like dressed as a runner

Running

in.

Same 

Johanna Kitchell: thing on the way back you're in the tunnel and when you come up, like you cross into Canada or you cross into Canada over the bridge, you run in Windsor, Canada for a couple miles. It's beautiful. You're along the riverfront and then you go in the tunnel under the river, to cross back into the United States.

And the same thing there was like border patrol, like Yeah. Looking for you. Yeah. Or looking at you. And then you run the rest of it in Detroit. Wow. So, yeah, but you start on the bridge, like you literally, like, you run like half a mile and then you're on the ramp, up the bridge and over the bridge and down.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. So. That's really cool. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah, and that's my pr, that was my pr that was like my big breakthrough where I was like, I don't know what I could run. And Matt, coach Matt was like, you know, don't even like, because I was like, maybe I'll just align myself with like a 3 45 pacer. And he's like, why are you aligning yourself with anything?

Like just go for it and just see how you feel. Like I think you're faster than you think. And I was like, no, don't. No. And of course like your coaches know best. and so I did like stupidly, I line, not stupidly, but I lined myself with a 3 45 pacer. 'cause I was like, I

dunno, I'm so nervous. Yeah. And then, by [00:55:00] the time we were like on the bridge, I was like, this is too slow.

This isn't going to, and not like a too early, I'm gonna push hard. It was just like, this doesn't feel right. And so I just like very carefully and naturally let myself drift ahead. Yeah. And I actually, one of my friends just reminded me last night, um, as I was. Prepping for, you know, to talk to you today.

One of the, like, the biggest things I did is I didn't look at my watch. I started my watch and I pulled, I had arm sleeves 'cause it was chilly. Yeah. And I pulled my arm sleeve over my watch and I never looked at it again. I never pulled it up. I, I, I forced myself to not check it. And I, I even found myself, I think once or twice, like looking down, realizing that the arm sleeve was over it and going, Nope, don't, don't do it.

Yeah. See, 

Ally Brettnacher: you can't 

Johanna Kitchell: do it. Don't do it. And so, I kind of just drifted in no man's land for a little while and I saw my husband twice. It kind of makes the, the marathon makes like a loop up and back. And so if you stand in the middle, you can easily see people. I think it was like mile 12 and maybe like mile 15 ish.

And so he saw me at 12 and he is like, you look great. Like three 40 is just ahead. And I was like, Nope. Don't wanna hear that at all. Yeah. Like three 40 is too fast. That feels too fast. Yeah. And then when he saw me again at mile 15, [00:56:00] he's like, you are steps away from them like you could get them. And I was like,

but I was just kind of like running steady.

And I did, I ended up catching the three 40 group and thought to myself like, just tuck in here. Don't push too hard. You haven't done a marathon in just four years. Hang, hang in there, hang in there. So, and they were like a really friendly group. they were all like, they had giving each other like nicknames and like, oh, that's we're chatting, you know, and like, where are you from?

Like, all this sort of stuff. So tucked in with them. For the next, like, you know, fair amount of miles. And then at 25 and in the, you know, marathon math, I'm trying to do the math, like if I started with the 3 45 group, but I've caught the three 40 group. Oh Jesus. How time? Jesus. Like, what? You can't do a mile 28 marathon, you cannot do math.

No.

So I was like, I don't know, like, am I gonna be under the three? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, let's just keep going. Like, don't think about it because you might blow up. And so I, you know, the fatigue was setting in, but I was still like feeling okay. And at 25 there was a water stop and the group kind of dove for the water stop and I missed like reaching a cup and they were kind of slowing for it.

And I was like, Nope. Missed it. Not going back, just finished. Go. [00:57:00] And so then I just like, eyes forward. So I ended up leaving the three 40 group because they were at the, you know, not like full stop at the water stop, but like that sort of slowing Yes. For everybody to grab. And I just kind of kept going and came in at 3 30, 8 49 or something like that.

Yeah. 19 something in that room. But, Yeah, I had no, I didn't know what my time was 'cause I hadn't looked at my watch, I hadn't thought about it. I had no idea what it was. 

Ally Brettnacher: That's so fun. I It was gonna be 

Johanna Kitchell: somewhere around that three 40 ish range, maybe under, yeah. But again, can't do math. Right. Um, so I finished and had it was only when I like crossed the finish line and saw the clock that I knew about where I was and then looked at my watch and you're like.

Sweet. But yeah, it was really like I am a perfectionist and I am a very A type person, so to not look at my watch was like a big deal. But yeah, it worked and it definitely worked for me and I just, I made sure I felt, you know, all the things we always hear about in marathons, like you wanna feel easy and slow and bored in the first party.

Yeah. And I was bored in the middle and I looked at my splits later on and like I was running like an eight flat at some point, which is not a three 40, like, yeah, three 40 is like 8 22, and [00:58:00] I had like a 7 55 and an eight flat at like mile like 12 and 13. It was like, it was a good thing I didn't, good thing you didn't know that.

Yeah. Good thing I didn't freaked yourself out. Out. I would've freaked out or I would've been like, oh, well if I can do that, I should keep hammering. Yeah. And I would've blown up, so. Right. It was nice that I just kind of let myself feel it and just keep it relaxed until it felt hard, which it's going feel hard no matter what.

Mm-hmm. So, 

Ally Brettnacher: yeah. Wow. That's so cool. It was 

Johanna Kitchell: a really cool feeling and it was something I was really proud of. Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: You should 

Johanna Kitchell: be, 

Ally Brettnacher: especially like. Yeah, talk about a little bit more about coming back postpartum. 

Johanna Kitchell: Okay. So, oh yeah, sorry. I have two comeback stories.

Yeah. Obviously. But, yeah, I mean I had a very pretty healthy and, and easy pregnancy and I was lucky in that, I did have a little bit of issue with, like my adduct or pain, which is very common, which is what stopped me from running.

it's common in women. And so coming back, I lift as well. I, I, lift with a trainer. It's just one of those going back to being a sprinter, like I'm a good power athlete. Mm. So I like lifting. So I was able to go back to that After, you know, six, seven weeks I was feeling okay. And then the running [00:59:00] coming back was just slow.

And I really tried to make sure I listened and,

you know, had some pt like work to actually like, rebuild my core and, and everything properly and not push it. And I did a run walk combo for a long time. and then just slowly started to build it back up. And it wasn't until, I mean, my son was born in 2021.

Mm-hmm. And I didn't really start running like, seriously. Or even trying anything serious until well into 2022. And then that's where I kind of like fell into that. Like, I'm just kind of running aimlessly, what am I gonna do?

Mm-hmm. And then in 2023 is when I joined PBT and actually started doing workouts.

But I think in some ways it was good. I waited a fair amount of time because it allowed me to really like, heal and make sure that I was ready. Like my body was ready to go. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody's different. I mean, totally. There's some women who are ready to get back out there right away. Or some women who run up until their due date.

and I was lifting, I lifted, I pushed a sled, like, you know, like one of those like, you know, sled pushes? Yeah. Yeah. I was literally pushing a sled like the day before my son was born. Wow. Yeah. Um, so I lifted all the way up until my due date. I just couldn't run

the

whole [01:00:00] way. but yeah, I think actually lifting helped a lot.

'cause I had a lot of strength and a lot of, I knew how to engage and work muscles 

Ally Brettnacher: in different 

Johanna Kitchell: ways. Mm-hmm. And I think it 

Ally Brettnacher: helped. Yeah. Well I always also find it so amazing, what women's bodies are capable of. Mm-hmm. But really that. I always thought that my fastest years

were

before I had kids.

Like I was like, well yeah, certainly you can't be faster after you have kids. So you're like so much more energy and you like you're old and it's just not the case. No, 

Johanna Kitchell: and actually like I'm in a comeback right now and I ran the last run through one seven. I was like, ah, I don't think I can do anything, all that crazy.

And I ran a pace that was like not far off of my pr and it's like, oh, I still have that in my legs from. A year, almost two years ago now that I'm like building back. So it's still there. Like you can still totally do it. Yeah. So my sister's coming back from a surgery and I'm like trying to encourage her like Right.

It's still there. It's Yeah, still there. You're gonna, you still have fast years ahead of you. We'll do it. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah, 

Ally Brettnacher: yeah. Oh, I love that your sister runs too. Now. How are you compared? Do you guys run together? Can you run [01:01:00] together? Yeah, she's 

Johanna Kitchell: my favorite training partner forever. Like, she's like my forever running buddy.

she's coming back from a surgery. It's really funny. She moved out here and we've been like trading off some injury things. Yeah. Great. So it's actually been really hard for us to run together. We try to as much as we can or we run, walk together. Yeah. but she's a runner. Her, until Detroit, her marathon PR was faster than mine.

Her half is still faster than mine. And, she was part of what got me running a marathon was when my husband deployed, when Joe deployed. She was like, so whatcha gonna do? Like, why don't you run a marathon? I was like, I can't run a marathon. Marathons are stupid. And she was like, train for a marathon.

Like, let's train together. So she actually, she was living in New York, but we trained for monumental together to help kind of keep me busy on, especially the weekends are hard when you're, we didn't have kids at the time. Yeah. So you're just home alone all the time when your husband, you know, when your family is deployed or whatever.

Yeah. So it helped fill some of that time and give me something to do. Mm-hmm.

Ally Brettnacher: So 

Johanna Kitchell: that

was actually, why I signed up for my first marathon was. My husband had been pushing me for a long time and with his deployment, my sister was like, let's do it. We'll run it together. So, , yeah, my first marathon [01:02:00] was her second, maybe her third.

Okay. It was a total comedy of errors. Oh my God. Everything like, I mean, I don't know how like gross we wanna get here. Like, I had the trots, it was awful. Oh, it was so bad. Everything was horrible. My sister had gotten really sick, so she was having like this like immune response like in the last few miles where she was like dizzy and like, I think she was like going numb in her leg.

Like it was all Oh no. Yeah. I hate that feeling. 

Ally Brettnacher: I hate that. 

Johanna Kitchell: So it, like, we're not even gonna talk about the time it was so bad. but we got through it together and that was, you know, really cool and really special to run together. So I'm excited for her to get back to it. she had, uh, meniscus repair surgery.

Okay. So I'm excited for her to get back to it Yeah. In the fall here and get some miles in together again. Yeah. Was Joe 

Ally Brettnacher: here 

Johanna Kitchell: for your first 

Ally Brettnacher: marathon? No, he was in Kuwait. He was still over there. Mm-hmm. 

Johanna Kitchell: He had left in like August, September, 2017. Okay. And it was November, 2017. Right. So he came back. We ran, all three of us.

Ran monumental in 2018.

not

again, not together. Yeah. Simultaneously. he finished more than an hour before. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Um, my 

Johanna Kitchell: sister, [01:03:00] 

Ally Brettnacher: I know, it's wild. I can't think about, you're just like, yep. That's just how it is. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. so he, um, but yeah, 2017 he was deployed and actually that had 

Ally Brettnacher: to be weird. You like crossing your first marathon finish line.

Mm-hmm. And I was sobbing. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. And it's really funny, there's, I don't know if they still did, but that year they had a bunch of army. So like they had soldiers at the finish line. Oh. And their job is to like, catch people who are falling and help 'em get to medical. And I was already like sobbing at like , the emotions of finishing a marathon.

And I, I, we turned the corner to the finish line and I see these soldiers Oh 

Ally Brettnacher: my. 

Johanna Kitchell: And I lost it. Yeah. I absolutely lost it. So like, my first marathon photos, like the finish line are funny. I have some on my wall in my classroom. I'm sobbing. I'm so like bee red. Yeah. Crying. And I went over to this one soldier who, God, he was probably like 19.

He was so young. And I hugged him, sorry. And I hugged him and I think he thought like I was like needing medical attention. He was like, are you okay ma'am? He was like, yes. I'm just, sorry. My husband is deployed and this is my first marathon. He's like, I'm sure he's very proud of you, ma'am. Yeah. And 

Ally Brettnacher: he was, he was like [01:04:00] standing there like not moving.

He's like this awkward, like, 

Johanna Kitchell: yeah because he, at first he was like, do you need help? And I was like, no, I'm fine. I just, just. Emotional. Just let me hug you. I'm sorry. Yeah. So, and yeah, my sister will love, like, she loves to laugh at me about like the hugging, the random soldier at the finish line. Well, I mean, but it was like meaningful for me.

Totally. It was totally like, here are these soldiers. Totally. And like that's what my husband is doing right 

Ally Brettnacher: now. You're like, that's that's why they're there. Yeah. They, it was supposed they were supposed to be there for you to 

Johanna Kitchell: hug one. Yeah. And I don't know if they like have it every year. I just, I don't remember being, I should know and I don't.

It's 

Ally Brettnacher: okay. yeah, obviously they have 

Johanna Kitchell: people who are like, their job is to

like percent find, but I don't remember, I can't remember 

Ally Brettnacher: how much we involved

people in uniform 

Johanna Kitchell: military. Yeah. People in uniform. Um, but it was, yeah, that was really like poignant on that one. Yeah. But that the rest of that race was a full comedy of errors.

Just went out probably two hard. I got sick, had to, had many restroom stops. Oh God. she was sick. It was just, it was, yeah. Mm-hmm. Whatever. You did it. It's great. We did it and like, we finished. And I remember like several hours later sitting on the couch that night, I was like, I think, I think I need to try again.

And she was like, ha ha ha. You have Gotcha. Yep. Mm-hmm. And then I did like, I ran. We ran Monumental the [01:05:00] next year? 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Like, 

Johanna Kitchell: I think I have to do that again. 

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. And then was Joe waiting for you at the finish line, um, after that or was he like off partying timer? I'm 

Johanna Kitchell: gonna give him the credit and say Yeah, he totally was.

He might not have been. Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: You're like, I don't know. It was 

Johanna Kitchell: a 

Ally Brettnacher: blur. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. I mean, he, he often will try and catch me at the finish. He's not always Yeah. Great. Detroit, he was there and he was fully ready for me in cheering and helped me put on my warmer clothes and change my shoes and everything.

but not every race like, you know, three one sevens. He's off on his second beer already. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before I finish. Yeah.

Yeah.

So with an hour over an hour time gap, he probably wasn't right there that second time. Yeah. He was probably hanging out and I had to go find him. Yeah. It's okay. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: That's fair. We still love him. Yeah, we do. Yeah. That's good.

and you mentioned your second comeback Yeah. From your injury. Yes. Which I had actually like, kind of totally forgot about. No, that's good. 'cause there's just so many things Yeah. That I need to talk to you about. and that was what year did you have your surgery and why?

Okay, 

Johanna Kitchell: so, For reasons that we'll never fully [01:06:00] know. I ended up having a completely collapsed disc in my lower back. , It's possibly due to triple jump and long jump for years 'cause I did it for so long. What is a 

Ally Brettnacher: collapsed disc? 

Johanna Kitchell: So, you know, so you have your vertebrae, those are the bones, and then you have the squishy, like the jelly donuts in between.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh. 

Johanna Kitchell: So those are your discs. , You have a disc between all of your vertebrae, basically all the way up until your tailbone. And so, they all have different names based on what part of your spine they're in. Okay.

So your lower spine is called your lumbar area. Mm. It's like you have a lumbar pillow or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. So the discs are all like, you have like an L four vertebrae and an L five vertebrae and the disc in between and things like that. and so, whether it was triple jump or long jump or an injury at the gym, because I've like popped my back, you know, out of place a few times or whatever.

Yeah. I had a disc that was over many, many years. Truly, almost two decades. I mean, I was in college 20 years ago, so, Over time getting worse and worse. And I was having like back pain and it was fine. It was manageable. Mm-hmm. And then it would like get a little worse and I would go see another PT or a different type of PT or whatever.

And I was in a chiropractor all the time. Yeah. [01:07:00] you know, and then for a while it was managed with steroid injections and all this sort of stuff. And all this time I just keep running on it because I could. Yeah. And I would have pain an issue. , But it was getting worse and worse. And it got to the point where, , after my son was born, actually pregnancy kind of helped.

'cause like the relaxant hormones that you get actually kind of helped a little bit. 

Ally Brettnacher: Interesting. 

Johanna Kitchell: And I was lucky that my, my son in utero did not push on my sciatic. So, which happens to a lot of women. Yeah. So I was lucky that that didn't happen. Mm-hmm. Um, so, but after that, you're sitting a lot, whether you're, you know, rocking your baby, nursing, feeding bottles, whatever it is.

, And sitting was a challenging position for me. And, , I. Just a lot of things and it started getting worse and worse. And I stopped responding to, , steroid injections. I stopped responding to chiropractic work, and I got to a point somewhere in that like 20, 23 world where I couldn't sit up long enough to eat dinner as a family.

I couldn't, car rides were excruciating for me actually to get to Detroit. I, my husband drove and I had to lay the car seat back the whole way, like to get there and back because I could not sit up in the car. and, [01:08:00] and you're like, oh yeah, this is getting bad. Yeah. And you know, from a mental health standpoint, it was getting really hard.

Yeah. I was a grumpy person because I was in pain all the time. I couldn't sleep. Yeah. Yeah. , Even once my son was sleeping through the night, like I wasn't sleeping. , I was just in pain all the time. And, and when you spend that much of your energy fighting pain, yeah. You're a miserable human to be around.

, You don't have the energy to do things. I like stopped wanting to hang out with friends and wanting to do anything because I was just in so much pain and I was so tired all the time. Yeah. I

would do my schoolwork laying on the floor. Like laptop on the floor. and it was awful. And so, , the big crux was like after Detroit, , so like late 2023, early 20, 24, I started having nerve pain all the way down into my left foot.

And it was radiating outta my shin, , to the point that it was like needles. Like I would like sit there and like punch my shin because it was like so bad. and I had a few people who were like, go, go in and see a doctor again, because I had had some consults and they were like, yeah, you know, you could do this or you could do this.

And I never wanted to do the, the big scary surgeries because those are scary and you never know what the outcome's gonna be. Yeah. And so I went and [01:09:00] had a few more consults. I was finally like, kind of pushed by some people. Like I literally had a friend who like set up a consult for me, was like, here, this person's gonna call you.

They're a scheduler and you're going to take the call. And I was like, okay. and so, , I ended up, basically everybody was like, your, your disc is completely dead. So the disc was compressed and so it was bulging. So some people can have small bulges that can like, . Can go back in, you can do PT and stretching and it'll kind of like settle itself.

Yeah. , Some people, , can live with their disc. It's not pushing into their nerve column in a specific way. And so they're just, they have a bad disc and they're okay. And then there's people like me who, like, if I were to show you the x-rays or the MRIs, you'd be like, that is wild that you were living with that.

, So the disc was like completely compressed and it was like bulging out the way that, like a clock from a Salvador Dali painting looks like it was like dribbling down my spine essentially, and it was pushed directly into my nerve column. And it had been so long and it was so much of a thing that like there were no other options.

So last June, almost exactly, almost a year ago, , it'll be June 24th, or June 25th, 2024, I had [01:10:00] lumbar fusion surgery. So it's like, it's the big fix. this is not conservative care. This is maximally invasive surgery. Yeah. It's not minimally, it's. It's big. , So they went in and they literally removed that, that disc they put in a metal cage.

Like it literally is like, , it looks almost like a coil, but it's not springy at all. Okay. And three screws into my spine and then put me back together. And then, , what'll happen is they put like a hormone on to the vertebrae on either side that caused the two vertebrae to grow together through and around the cage.

Okay. That's the fusion part. So those two vertebrae, my L four and my L five over the last year, and will continue for a little while longer have been literally growing into each other and fusing together around the cage and through the cage. , And so I don't have a disc there anymore, and I have, I, I'm part bionic.

And there's a couple of different ways to go through the surgery. , The way I chose for various different reasons is what's called the anterior approach. So they actually went in through my abdomen, they went in through my stomach, not through my back. Oh. So that was part of the recovery was like they literally, like you talk about pregnancy, [01:11:00] like ripping apart your ab wall, like they actually cut straight through my AB wall.

Yeah, yeah. I have an eight inch incision in my AB wall. And yeah, so that's been like my comeback this year has been recovering from that surgery, learning how to function again and like when you have an injury, you build up so many imbalances and other problems. And I had been building those for nearly two decades.

So to try and like literally peel back and un knot everything that I had built up in my body has been a lot of challenge. , So I've been getting back to running only for the last couple months now. , It took me about seven or eight months to really like start to actually quote unquote run. Yeah. .

And, , yeah, but it, I'm running with the least amount of pain and the most movement I've been able to run in basically forever. Yeah. It's so exciting since I started being a distance, like running long distances. Yeah. Yeah. so there are things that like I'll never be a hundred percent pain free.

That's not the guarantee. Okay. And I'll never, there's things I'll never, like, I'm never gonna go do back flips. I'm never gonna like, you know, bummer. I'm probably [01:12:00] not supposed to bungee jump. It's probably not like on the list. It does sound like a good idea. Probably not on the list of things I should do.

Yeah. Yeah. But I am living a much more normal life and I, it was life changing for me. I woke up out of surgery and the tightness I had had on my right side was gone. Like, it was my pain, like the pain that had been Oh my gosh. In my body and in my brain for years and years and years was like literally gone.

I had other pain. 'cause like a

giant

incision. Well yeah, it got cut open, but Yeah. But um, yeah. But that pain was gone. 

Ally Brettnacher: Johanna. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. It was life changing. So shout out to Forte Sports here in Carmel. '

Ally Brettnacher: cause geez, they fixed me. That's huge. Yeah. My mom had

back surgery, , December. Two years ago, last year, the years blur blurred together.

But this is the best way anybody's ever described to me. Like a spine. Yeah. And like what's going on? Yeah. So you did, so you did a really good job explaining like, thanks. It's like I'm a teacher or something. I always thought, huh. Um, I had to 

Johanna Kitchell: explain it to my kids, 

Ally Brettnacher: but, but yeah. I mean, yeah. I guess that makes that tracks.

Yeah. Okay. But I didn't know [01:13:00] discs weren't bone. Yeah. Just learned that today 

Johanna Kitchell: the discs are like smooshy. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I didn't 

Johanna Kitchell: know. They're like jelly donuts. Yeah. And so you have jelly inside the donuts and you want the jelly to stay inside And my jelly was not. And it also can, like, when it gets there, when it's been like that for a long time, it can what's called calcify, which you can probably picture it hardens.

And so if your disc is like fully calcified and dead, like you're out of options. And that's what my was geez. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, my mom, I, I, I'll now ask her to like, remind me what she had done specifically. Mm-hmm. But they went in through the front and the back. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yes. And there's a lot of different things. There's discectomies, which is where they just cut off the bulge.

I was hoping I could do that, and they were like, no, I'm not gonna work for you. No. It's all 

Ally Brettnacher: over the place. Yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: And like, there's people who have rods in their spines to help them with different things. , But yeah, the, the, the sort of fusion surgery, the most common one, they can either go in through your back or your front, or sometimes it is both depending on how they need to place things.

They take out the disc, they put in a cage and some screws, and they grow your bones around it. Wow. Mm-hmm. That's wild. Yeah. So it'll take a little while. Like, I think I'm still in the recovery. It feels weird because [01:14:00] I'm living so much normal, more normal now. Yeah. And, but I forget that like, I'm still under a year out and this is, , a, a full, this is a marathon.

Marathon, yeah. Yeah. Right. It's a truly a marathon. I actually have, one of my friends from home, , her daughter, , made me like a, like Taylor Swift style like bracelet. Oh yeah. But it says like. Finish this marathon first because this is the marathon first. Right. So before I, you know, before I think about all of these other things, like it's getting through this marathon of recovery.

so everything from learning, like from reestablishing my core, the same way we have to post preg, you know Yeah. Postpartum, to learning how to move my muscles again. my hamstrings had gotten so tight that I could not, not only could I not sit down and stick my legs straight out, my legs were almost at like a 90 degree angle.

If I sat on my bottom on the ground, I could not like pipe position. Yeah. I couldn't even get past a 90 degree angle on my knees. 

Ally Brettnacher: That's insane. 

Johanna Kitchell: That's insane. Insane. Literally like reteaching my hamstrings, what to do, my hips, my, like my glutes, everything. Geez. Having to reteach those muscles, like how to function because they had been holding on, like grabbing so hard all the time [01:15:00] because I wasn't stable.

Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: That had to be so hard. I'm like picturing having a young kid. Mm-hmm. Having a husband. Mm-hmm. And you are. In pain and grumpy all, all the time. The time. Yep. That'd be so freaking hard. Hard. And working with middle school students all day. Oh right. And that like hundreds of them all day. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. Were you like, 

Ally Brettnacher: don't you have to sit down to play the cello too?

Yeah. I actually 

Johanna Kitchell: had to kind of stop playing cello for a few years. Yeah. Because I couldn't sit long enough to practice. Right. I could play violin. That's probably how I got much better at violin over the last few years. Yeah. I was like, I would find myself playing violin more than cello, but I, yeah. I couldn't play cello for a long time.

Like I've been making my way back to playing cello again, which is cool. Yeah. 'cause it's kind of what I love to do. Yeah. but yeah, it was, it was hard. And I had a lot of people were like, I had no idea you were in so much pain. I was like, well, I, nobody wants to be around a miserable person. No. So you put on a really great front, like, you're like, ah, everything's great.

They're like, oh, is your, you know, like, I'll be like, you know, moving funny. And they're like, oh, is your back hurt? And I'm like, ah, yeah, it's okay. When really. It's one of [01:16:00] those, like, you know, on somebody else's pain scale, it was probably like an eight, but that day for me was like a four, because chronic pain is a miserable beast that ruins your entire like, perspective of everything.

And so, like my pain scale was totally different because if every day is an eight, then eventually that becomes a four. Right? Because you mm-hmm. What other choice do you have? Yeah. So like, you know, the only other choice I had was like to like, what, you know, quit my job, quit being everything, and like climb into a hole and become like a vegetable sit.

You're like, lay down and just eat, lay down, down all the time, vegetable. And so, , it wasn't until. , The nerve pain down my left leg got so bad that I couldn't run. That was my, like, my wake up call because I could be like, well, I can run. Even though it was ridiculous that I had to lay down on the way to Detroit, like, yeah, that should have been my wake up call.

But it was like the nerve pain that made it too hard to run. And that was like, okay, I have to do something 

Ally Brettnacher: fine because I'm not gonna give up running. Yeah. That is, and that's, runners are so stubborn. Yeah. We are, we're so stubborn. We'll, we'll go through so much pain. Mm-hmm. Until, [01:17:00] until, until it's taken from us.

Until it takes the running. Yes. And then you're like, okay, now I'm listening. Now I'm here. Mm-hmm. I'll fix it. Fix it now. Yeah. So I'm so glad Yeah. That you're on this side of it. It is. And getting closer and closer to 

Johanna Kitchell: it is, 

Ally Brettnacher: it's being recovered. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. It's like I, you know, I have to take it. I have to be cautious.

Um, I still get some residual pain. . It's like a little nagging thing and it just, it scares me because like, I don't wanna do anything to upset Right. The cage or the growth. And I also have like, the discs above and below aren't perfect. They're fine, but they're not perfect. They have some signs of some wear and tear, so I don't wanna do anything to like, 

Ally Brettnacher: make that mad.

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. Yeah. So, I definitely like my, my next like marathon training block's gonna look a little different. It's gonna be lower mileage, it's gonna be elliptical and bike to mm-hmm. Supplement that cardio time. , I'm not gonna be doing 80 mile a weeks, you know, it's just not gonna happen. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Well, Rob Jackson can give you a elliptical tutorial.

Johanna Kitchell: That's fine. I, I've gotten pretty good at the elliptical. I think you have already. I've gotten, I have a few shows that I like. I will only watch if I'm on a biker, an elliptical, like I'm not allowed to watch, hacks. [01:18:00] Oh, I have not. What's that? Oh my God, it's so good. Okay. Writing it down. It's on H-B-O-H-B-O, it's hacks.

there's, I think season four just came out, so you'll have a lot that you can watch. Oh, that's, that's always good. And 

Ally Brettnacher: also overwhelming because I'm like, okay, I commit that you can Okay. They're, 

Johanna Kitchell: they're, they're like good binge-worthy ones. Okay. Okay. hacks is really good. It's about, an older comedian and a younger comedian.

It's very like female driven. It's like, you'll love it. Perfect. I, white Lotus has been one of 'em, love Gilded Age, which is like a period thing's, oh, I don't know that one either. It's about the, like the Gilded Age in New York City. So, like the Vanderbilt type time period. 

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. 

Johanna Kitchell: one of the cool things is they've done a lot of the filming in the Albany area, so it's been kind of fun 'cause like.

You know, it's not that it's, they do so much with like computer, like editing things that like, it's not recognizable as that street. Yeah. But you're like, I know that they filmed that there. Right. Cool. Um, so it's very cool. So Gilded Age is cool. They have a new season coming out. There's also, uh, my sister and I are both very into musicals and her especially, but, they, a lot of Broadway stars are in Gilded Age, so it's been fun.

So that's kind of 

Ally Brettnacher: fun to spot them and be, yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. So, gilded Age is another one. [01:19:00] Um, the White Lotus will be, I haven't watched the new season yet. Oh. So that's like, so like some of those things that like, people watch, like my job is very busy and I work a lot. Mm-hmm. I do a lot being a music teacher, there's a lot of outside stuff and I have a ton of, , a ton of students more than the average teacher.

Yeah. And so, I don't have a ton of TV time in general, so like all these shows that everybody's already watched, I like, I'm like, well I'll, I watch them when I'm on the bike or whatever. Yeah. Because I can't wa I don't get to just sit down and watch 'em at night. I have my laptop out at night and I'm trying to work.

Right. And I don't wanna miss what's happening. Right. So. Yeah. So it'll be that, that'll be, the next training cycle is gonna be a mix just to help preserve the impact on the spine. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. 

Johanna Kitchell: Mm-hmm. Whew. Yeah, 

Ally Brettnacher: it's been a, it's been an interesting road the last few years. Yeah. Okay. And then we have to talk about, I mean, if you're okay talking about, what happened to you on Christmas Eve 2023?

Yeah. 2023. Yep. 

Johanna Kitchell: Mm-hmm. 

Ally Brettnacher: Because when you said two comebacks, I like forgot about the surgery mm-hmm. For a second. Mm-hmm. And thought that you meant after. Yep. What happened to you, because I feel like that's a whole nother level of comeback. It is in your [01:20:00] mind. So could you. Just tell us what happened. Yeah.

How you made your way through that, how it impacts you now. Sure. 

Johanna Kitchell: So I, um, on Christmas Eve 2023, but like midday, it was noon, crazy , Middle of the day I was running on the Pensy Trail, , up in northern Indiana and Illinois. So, , , , my husband is from like Northwestern Indiana, like the Chicago suburb, Indiana side.

Mm-hmm. 

Ally Brettnacher: The region. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yep. The region. And so we were staying at a hotel there that was right along the Pensy trail, and actually right near the Monan up there as well. And so I was like, I'm gonna go out for a run. My husband was at, at the hotel. He was trying to put our son down and I had actually crossed into Illinois.

so I was in a suburb of Chicago, but on the Illinois side. And I was, just after my turnaround point. So I was like, I think I'm just gonna run blah, blah, blah miles. And I was like, nah, we'll do six. So I got to three and I stopped really quick and I turned around and about I, it was a few feet, honestly, into my turnaround and my way back to the hotel.

I was grabbed from behind by a man. and I was thrown to the ground. So I am one of the many women who has been attacked while running. [01:21:00] unfortunately, I was incredibly lucky that I got away. When he threw me to the ground, he lost contact with me. Like he wasn't still holding me. He didn't pin me down.

and I am beyond lucky that. He never made physical contact with me again. so, you can actually see, like on my Strava, you can actually see where he pulled me off the trail. because like, you know, Strava is so precise, right? so you can actually see, like, it looks just like any other, like rail trail and like, I'm like pulled off into the grass a bit for like, you know, a moment on like, and then like you can see my, like my little trace get back on.

So he 

Ally Brettnacher: threw you not on the. Cement, but on the grass, no, he threw me on the grass. He 

Johanna Kitchell: pulled me off the trail and threw me down on the grass. Jesus. and then, like, you know, stood over me, and I started screaming for help at the top of my lungs as much as I could. there was nobody around. It was midday, but it was like part of the trail where there's like kind of businesses, like the block before had been houses, but where we were, it was kind of like businesses.

And then it was leading up to an underpass under a highway. Like a ma one of the major ones up there. Yeah. And I had actually thought to myself like, I don't think I need to go through this tunnel. I don't need to go. Whatever. Right. That's [01:22:00] sketchy. I don't know. Yeah. And so I was like, that's why I was like, well, I guess six is great.

So I'll just turn around at three. Like I'm almost at three. I'll turn around. Yeah. And, So I started screaming. Annie like, you know, tried to say like, I'm not gonna do anything. I ain't gonna do nothing to you. And I was like, you already did. You already touched me. You already threw me to the ground.

Yeah. Like, this is what I was saying. Saying at him and screaming at him. And, I do run with my phone, so I started to pull my koala clip out. Yeah. And he was like, don't you, don't you call for the police? Don't you? Like, don't pick up your phone. Don't call. And I was like, okay, I won't. I won't, I won't. And I tucked it behind my back, but I was like trying to get it to where you like, you know, can Yeah, the emergency.

Yeah, the emergency. So I was working on like getting it out, but like I had my hotel key in there and I didn't want my hotel key to fall out. so I was like working on getting my phone out behind my back and he kept saying like, he kinda was just like there. I don't even remember exactly now, like the exact things because I'm sure the whole thing was probably 15 seconds, but in my brain it's like forever long.

A million years. Yeah. So, I was like, please just let me go. Let me go. I won't call the police. Let me go. And he kept saying like, I'm not gonna do anything. And I kept again, screaming back like, you already did. You already touched me. And I finally started screaming that I had a [01:23:00] kid. I was like, please just let me go.

I have a child. Like, let me go, let me go. I have a child. And I don't know if that clicked in his brain, like something about like this, like a kid made a difference or that made me seem old or something. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, or he just, because it seemed so spur of the moment, it didn't seem like pre-planned, or anything.

He finally like, he just like, let me, I was able to like, kind of get myself to my feet and start backing away from him facing him. And he didn't like approach me more and I was like, okay. I think like my brain was like, I think I'm gonna get away. And he eventually like turned around and sprinted off and I kept walking backwards until I couldn't see him anymore, like looking behind my back to make sure there wasn't anybody else.

I feel like I'd walk backwards for three fricking miles. So I kept walking back and walking back, walking backwards, she Christ, until I couldn't see him anymore. Yeah. And then I took off at like, probably my husband's marathon pace. Um, yeah. What felt like, yeah. Yeah. Like the fastest I could possibly run. I called my husband and he was working on putting our son down so he didn't pick up the phone right away, but he, like, I left, like I did like the multiple call things right, that he would see.

Then I called [01:24:00] my sister just to have somebody like. On the phone with me Yeah. To talk to as I kept running back towards the center of the town that we were in. Yeah. That I had crossed through. Yeah. Because I remember crossing through like a little like town center sort of area on this trail. Why didn't you call the police?

I, I, I don't know. I just like, I'm 

Ally Brettnacher: just, I know your brain is like 

Johanna Kitchell: in your brain. I don't know. I just like called my sister just to have somebody and then Joe called me back and he was like, where are you? He's like, I'm gonna come get you. And I was like, no, I can run back. He's like, no, you're not. Like, like, stop wherever you are.

I'm coming to get you. And so then I did call the police and we filed a report. So like my husband came and met us and our son was in the car. and we did file like a police report. and yeah, so then he drove me back to the hotel and. I, like, like stains on my shirt. And like I said, you can see like on the trail, like on my Strava.

Like where Yeah, exactly where it happened. Like I actually like screenshotted that, that's how I found out that I could see it on Strava was the police were asking like, where, where, and I was like, I don't know. I'm not from here. Yeah. and I was like, wait, hold up. And I like saved, like, stopped my run, uploaded it to Strava and then like was like able to pull up like the [01:25:00] exact spot on the map.

so yeah, so we filed the, like the police report. , I did end up having to go back up and I did do , like a photo lineup and I positively idd. you did? Suspect I did. Nothing's happened. Of course not. 'cause that's such. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. so I mean, I'm, I'm incredibly lucky that nothing worse happened to me because in so many of these stories it's so much worse.

Yes. aside from some minor scrapes and cuts from being thrown down, I was physically okay. Right. You know, physically is the right. Yeah, yeah. Because I know you're, I was physically okay. and, and unfortunately in too many of those cases, like there are worse things that happen. And so I'm lucky in that sense that for whatever reason, he like backed off.

Right. And let me go. 

Ally Brettnacher: Did you, okay, so when you were running, how many other people did you see while you were out on your run? I 

Johanna Kitchell: mean, it was like noon on Christmas Eve, so like, not a ton, but also like I was. Passing through like that little town square. There were cars and some people out and about. Yeah.

And I, you know, being a female runner and running alone, like I do make note of the people I pass, especially when I'm running somewhere. I'm not super familiar. Yeah. and [01:26:00] so I had remembered seeing a biker and I had actually passed this guy. but what I don't remember is if I had passed him right before my turnaround and he was already walking.

'cause he came up from me behind. So like, I don't remember if I passed him before my turnaround or after, but I had actually passed him. And I don't know if he, like, we passed this way or if I passed him going the same, like opposite direction at Saint. I don't remember. But I remember spotting him and being like, dude, okay.

You know, because that's what we do. Like Yeah. Biker got it. 

Ally Brettnacher: Dude. Got it. And you were like, I mean, you're like, does this dude look sketchy? Yeah. Like, you're just 

Johanna Kitchell: already, and you try not, you don't 

Ally Brettnacher: wanna prejudge people. Like you don't, of course not, but like, yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: But yeah. So, Then, so yeah, he either like had passed me going the same direction or the other direction, but he came up from behind from me.

So it was after I turned around he ran up behind me. So was he on a bike when you saw him? You said? No, no. Biker was somebody separate. Okay. But I was hoping, like when I started screaming, like I was hoping the biker was near me, it was going nobody, so it wasn't super full. It wasn't like a nice spring day on the Monan.

But like there were some people around. I just must have, I happened to be on this one stretch where there wasn't anybody and like how many times have we been somewhere where you're running in [01:27:00] there, you have a few blocks where you don't see anybody. Yeah. Like that happens all the time. All 

Ally Brettnacher: the time. 

Johanna Kitchell: All the time.

And so. I didn't think anything of the trail being quiet. It was Christmas Eve, like people are busy, right. you know, they're with family or they're traveling or they're prepping their house or it sounds magical to me. Like, oh, it's 

Ally Brettnacher: Christmas Eve and you're out. And it was 

Johanna Kitchell: like a warm day. I was in a t-shirt in shorts.

Like I also wasn't Yeah, in Illinois. Yeah. I was like in a t-shirt in shorts in northern, you know, Northern Illinois. Northern Indiana. I had a long sleeved shirt and like I had that wrapped around like my waist 'cause it was warmer. and it was like one of those like first days of vacation and my husband was like, go enjoy a run.

Like, you know, it was like one of those, like, I was having like one of those happy, just casual, lighthearted, I don't have to be done in 20 minutes type run. Yeah. and so yeah, it was like a nice day and I was quite enjoying myself and it was fun to be like, I just crossed into Illinois. I've crossed into a new state.

How fun of a run is that? Yeah. yeah. And then, you know, kind of had a change of, 

Ally Brettnacher: so then how did that impact your holiday? Like, because you have to rehash that to every, all your family. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah, I mean, I had to obviously, like we had to tell my husband's family that night, when we went to like their, like, [01:28:00] so, you know, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day stuff.

Yeah. and then I called my parents and told them in New York, and obviously my sister knew right away. and I decided like pretty quickly that I was gonna post about it on like Strava and social media because it felt important. yeah. And it, you know, very gratefully, like I wrote, like, I might not reply to everybody just because I'm not gonna like, spend my whole day on my phone, but like, I want everybody to know this happened.

Yeah. Because you think all the time, like you hear the story and you hear the worst ones and the most tragic and unfortunate ones, and you think like, gosh, how horrible. Like, I'm never, you know, but I don't know that person. Mm-hmm. And it's like, well, hi, here, let me be the person that you know. 

Ally Brettnacher: Right. Um, 

Johanna Kitchell: that this happened to.

And while mine isn't as devastating and tragic, like it still is awful and should never happen. And, yeah. Like I, you know, I don't, I don't know if he had a weapon. I don't know if he, like what his thought was or what his plan was. Yeah. I have no idea. Don't need to. Yeah. but yeah, it, like, I definitely had to like process through it through most of like winter break and, I told my colleagues, like my, our music department we're very close and I'm, I have great admin, so [01:29:00] I told them because I definitely found, again, combined with this is also while I'm in the middle of all my, like, back pain stuff, like, oh my God, I had found myself, occasionally like just full on snapping at people and like, how can you not in that 

Ally Brettnacher: much pain?

Johanna Kitchell: And then I would realize later, like, oh, like I'm really sorry. I was really, really snappy at you. And I didn't mean to be, I'm just, I'm just struggling with a lot of things right now. Yeah. And so, yeah, it like, and then there was the, like the mental part of going on runs again. Right. Um, I still find myself, I mean, we're almost two years out now and I still find myself, like if I'm running alone, I do run alone now.

It took me a long time to run alone again. Mm-hmm. I will run alone though. Not in the dark really very much. Yeah. But I do find myself not just making note of the people I pass, but also if I pass somebody, I will turn around and make sure that they haven't turned around because that's what happened.

Like Yeah. You know, it's not even just that you pass the person from a front, it's the coming up front behind. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. And 

Johanna Kitchell: so, like, I was even on a bike a couple days ago. I was biking on the new nickel plate trail and I passed a, a, a [01:30:00] guy and he was on foot, like his chances of being able to like do anything, like I'm on a bike.

Yeah. And I still found myself like, where did, you know, turning around and saying where did he go? Yeah. so that's definitely something that I think like it, you know, is gonna be part of just my running life is having that like extra awareness and that nervousness mm-hmm. And you know, different parts of different trails and thinking like, oh, I shouldn't run there.

'cause it's businesses and it's desolate or it's darker. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't even dark. It was midday, but 

Ally Brettnacher: Right. Yeah. I hate that so much. Yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. So it's just one of those like constant reminding of people like it happens. Yeah. And it happens more than we think. Even if it doesn't make the news, it happens.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. It's on this podcast. I've talked to Eileen Poor 

Johanna Kitchell: mm-hmm. 

Ally Brettnacher: Who runs with PBT and she was episode 17. Go listen to that. She was not attacked while running, but while in an Uber and she, when I interviewed her for this podcast, wore the exact same shirt you're wearing right now. There you go. Which is a [01:31:00] Sarah Marie design shirt.

Yes. It is shirt that says women running wherever the they want. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yes. I have the clean ones that if I wore since I have the clean version. So I don't know have Oh, you do? Because I like green version. I don't have the F word. Yeah. Well it's hard when 

Ally Brettnacher: you, well, young kids for me, like I couldn't wear a shirt with the F word.

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. I thought about it. 'cause like I, that's how I feel. I think I could, yeah. I feel it in my brain. Yeah. That the F word. Yeah. But I couldn't bring myself to wear the shirt, but I do have 

Ally Brettnacher: the one that says Yeah, women, women wherever they want. Yeah. And then there's another woman who founded a company.

'cause she got, she was attacked twice, twice. Different completely different places, scenarios. And so she started a company called Running Mate, which is like Uber for runner safety. Mm-hmm. So it's like if you're somewhere you're traveling especially mm-hmm. Yeah. You could say like, Hey, I need somebody to come run with me.

Interesting. Just, I mean, 'cause that decreases the likelihood of if you're with somebody. but yeah. Anyway, I just hate that, that it has to be that this is what it is, that this is what it is. 

Johanna Kitchell: Oh, yeah. I mean, and you know, even before that, like how many times have I been like, honked at or Cat called not running.

Oh my God. I once had like a guy I [01:32:00] was running just in my neighborhood and I had like a car like circle the block to pass me again and like slow down the second time. And you're just like, you're like, what's gonna happen? Yeah. Um, and I think about it, like, I'll run in the mornings with some friends, like, we'll go out in the mornings and we'll pass like a man who's running with like, no, no NOx gear, no headlamp Totally just by themselves.

And I'm like. First of all, you make me nervous. Yeah. And second of all, like what, what privilege, how lucky for you that you feel safe? Like just running in the dark by yourself. No lights. No. Right. Just, yeah. How great for you. Right? Because I, I will never do 

Ally Brettnacher: that again. Like, totally. Yeah. So, so half the half of my listeners are men.

Yeah. Ish. And so it's like, guys, yeah. Just listen to that. Just try to understand mm-hmm. That while you feel safe, like it would, it helps so much. Mm-hmm. If you like, make us like, also tell us you're fricking there. Yep. I, oh God. The other day I was running an electric bike, a kid on an electric bike flew by me.

Yes. And I almost shit my pants. Yeah. so it's just like you have to just be self-aware and understand how you can make women feel a [01:33:00] lot. Better. Yeah. by yeah. Being, making sure your presence is known by wearing gear. That light shows light up in the dark. You're there. Yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. Making your presence known.

Yeah. Especially if you're coming up behind somebody and passing them like Yeah. Just an on the left or coming by you. Right. it's 

Ally Brettnacher: helpful. Super helpful. Yeah. Yeah. And don't honk at people. My husband thinks it's funny to honk and wave and I'm like, honey, no, actually, it's like, it can be really scary.

Yeah. 'cause you're like, oh my gosh. Like what? Yeah. You know? 

Johanna Kitchell: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I, I instantly think like, I, I did something wrong. Right. Or, yeah. That somebody's like, at somebody's mad at me and somebody, you know, it's 

Ally Brettnacher: like, that's not funny. 

Johanna Kitchell: And I know that, like my husband and several of the other guys when it comes to like PBT workouts, like they try and make sure.

warmups or cool downs if it's dark that they're with, like, they like are around the women or like every woman is accounted for and stuff. Yeah, that's great. Or have somebody to run with and I, I appreciate that a lot. 

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. 

Johanna Kitchell: and it's hard because I feel like a lot of our, you know, the guys who might be listening, the men listening to your podcast, they are the type of person who wouldn't ever find themselves doing something like that.

Right. And, but it's little things, like I said, [01:34:00] like when I pass like a dude just totally in the dark by themselves, no lights, no nothing. I'm like, who are you? Yeah, sorry, I keep saying that. who are you and how do you do this? and it does freak us out. Like, yeah. So, you know, even though most of the people who are the perpetrators of these horrific attacks, like they're not runners.

Like that guy wasn't a runner, right? He was just walking. I don't know what he was walking through or from don't care. Don't need to know. But like, he was just out on a, like he was, he was walking, so it wasn't like he was like a runner who attacked me. It just was a dude. and like, it's hard because we feel like we're doing all this stuff as women and we're doing all of this stuff.

And, and a lot of the men in our lives are doing the right thing, but it is other people who aren't in this world, in this sphere that are doing these stupid, horrible things. Yeah. But yeah. Looking out man. Yeah. Offering to run with women in your lives, even if it is too slow. Right? Yeah. Whatever. 

Ally Brettnacher: man, you've been through a lot.

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. Yeah. It's been a lot. The last few years have been a lot. I'm so glad to 

Ally Brettnacher: talk to you, like on your like super comeback. Yes. 

Johanna Kitchell: This is the big, this is the big comeback for sure. Yeah. I'm excited for it. 

Ally Brettnacher: I'm so happy for you that you've, I feel 

Johanna Kitchell: [01:35:00] very positive. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: On my, so my 38th birthday last year, I was like 37, literally and figuratively tried to kill me like multiple times.

Like it was awful. And you know, I'm not trying to be like hyperbolic about it, but like, it was a really, really hard year. and so I was like, everybody's like, are you okay getting like another year old or I was like, grateful, happy. Thank the Lord that this year is over. Thank goodness. Yeah. I have made it to 38 because it was dicey at times, and so Wow.

yeah. So happy to move forward. 

Ally Brettnacher: Jesus. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yeah. 

Ally Brettnacher: Ugh. Well, we've probably been, yeah, we've been talking for over 90 minutes. Wow. Yeah. So we, I have to ask you the last questions. All right. so two questions. Okay. The first one is, what is your running mantra and or song? 

Johanna Kitchell: Okay. So mantra. And I told myself this all the time during Detroit especially, 'cause I was in a lot of pain even though I was running Detroit.

Yeah. Which was, , you trained to do this, you want to do this, you get to do this. and it wasn't, I know a lot of people have like the, you get to do this, but it was adding like, you wanted this and you trained for this. Like, you have done this work. You have planned the [01:36:00] work. Yeah. So, yeah. I told myself a lot during Detroit, you train to do this, you want to do this, you get to do this.

I like that a 

Ally Brettnacher: lot. 

Johanna Kitchell: and it was just that nice, happy, like repetitive phrase. , Songs, there's too many, uh, music in me is like a very Oh, good point, right? I mean, I listen to a lot of everyth things. I don't listen to classical while I run. That'd be very strange. But, I mean, I guess you could, I think people could, yeah.

I listen to a lot of musicals. I'm actually a big, I listen to a lot of podcasts or like audibles. Yeah, same. So I don't really have like a mantra song necessarily. 'cause I just think I, I don't know. so that the mantra is like favorite musical ish. Oh no, that's mean. okay. Can I give you like a top five?

Yeah. Go. Okay. Newsies. Okay. Sweeney, Todd Demon, barber, fleet Street. probably gonna put Hamilton in there. the last five years, hmm. This is where I started to get stuck. Uh, I dunno if my sister listens to this, she's gonna be screaming one at me that I'm not thinking of right now. I don't know.

Probably once on this island. 

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. Um, I don't know any, I I, you're gonna like, that's okay. I know Hamilton, but I haven't seen it live. That's great. And I couldn't, the movie couldn't do it for me. Yeah. My, I need to see it live. I know that. I 

Johanna Kitchell: do. One of my, one of my [01:37:00] biggest humble brags ever is that my sister and I saw it with the original Broadway cast.

Ally Brettnacher: That's pretty, that's a pretty good humble brag. It was pretty good. The, that's life changing. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. It was incredible. I'm jealous of that. Yeah. Very lucky. You can see it in general. Yeah. Yeah. okay. And then next finish line and or milestone, which feels kind of mean to ask you No. In the midst.

No, because it's one of recovery. It's very exciting 

Johanna Kitchell: because I, I mean, it's gonna be different, but it's, it's huge redemption for me, which is Chicago 2025. I am running the Chicago Marathon. I Detroit, so Chicago, it's not quite as. Strict standards is Boston, but Chicago does have automatic qualifiers by age.

And so my 3 38 in Detroit qualified me for 2024 Chicago. 'cause it was three 40 at the time. Oh, I don't know what it is now. So I had an automatic qualifier for Chicago, so I didn't have to go through the same lottery. So I took it, but then with all the pain and all of the issues, everybody was like, you should get surgery.

And I was like, well, but I have, I have like Chicago, I have to run Chicago. Yeah, I'll do it after Chicago. And somebody, I forget who it was, was like, well you know, if you have an automatic qualifier you can defer for a [01:38:00] year. And I was like, done. Oh well that changes things. And then I did the math on the whole Boston thing where I would qualify if I ran Chicago 2025 Uhhuh.

I qualify for Boston as a 40-year-old instead of as a 38 or whatever. 39-year-old. Yeah. So then that made that decision easy. So I deferred 2024 to 2025. So I have to run it this year. so I'm running Chicago in October. , I think my build, I think my training starts next week officially. Okay. Some, somewhere in that, we're in early June right now.

So somewhere in that like mid-June range, I'll actually start my actual build. I'm not looking to PR or bq. I haven't really tested my legs yet, and I haven't run anything more than about seven miles. Yeah. So I'm just looking to have a finish that feels dignified. because I run with so many fast people and I know how fast they're gonna finish.

I wanna make sure like they're not halfway down I 65 while I'm crossing the finish line. I don't wanna make my husband sit around for that many hours and no, no knock to anybody who I, right. Yeah. Like all marathons, like if you finish a marathon, you are an incredible human being and like no knock to anything at all.

Yeah. But they're, everybody has their own standards for themself and, um, [01:39:00] or their own like goals for themself. Yeah. And my goal is not to have a pr but my goal is to have a finish that for me, feels. Like I said, like in that range of, I've worked for it and I'm not just party pacing it. And if I do end up party pacing fine, like I'll still be proud of myself for finishing a marathon after everything.

Yeah. but yeah, so Chicago 2025, that is the next, that's awesome. That's the next one. 

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, I can't wait to cheer you on. I now, my coach will listen to this and she's gonna be like, I wish she would've told me that this fall. Would've been a BQ window for me. Yeah. because in my head I was like, I can't do that till next fall.

I'm 

Johanna Kitchell: like, 99% sure. I hope I haven't been telling everybody the wrong thing. Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert. I'm like nearly certain. It's your race, your age on Boston Race 

Ally Brettnacher: Day. I think that's true, but I just, again, I didn't think about it in the right year. Yeah. So, so I do think you're right. And so I'm running the Marine Corps marathon Okay.

This fall, which is October 26th with Ainsley's Angels. Oh. So I'm pushing somebody. Okay. So for me it's like all about giving somebody else the experience and not about time, but I told my coach, I was like, [01:40:00] train me. Like, I'm still trying to improve. Yeah. But I'm not gonna run a race for, for time. and I still feel really good about that, but I invite, maybe you done something in like 

Johanna Kitchell: February, you can go do like Houston or something.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh yeah. That'd be cool. My husband would kill me. That's the problem. Yeah. When I told him, when I told him I was gonna run a marathon this fall, he's like. well, I'm not like furious, but I'm not happy because it, as a parent, it's a lot of young kids. It's a lot of time. I'm so fortunate that my job, gives me the flexibility to like do my long runs Yep.

While the kids are outta the house. And so hoping it doesn't impact our family as much. Yeah. 

Johanna Kitchell: We have to alternate. Like we can't both be in a training block at the same time just to balance two jobs and a kid at home. So Yeah. It just doesn't make sense. So like he had the spring training block and then like literally we have like for PBT, we pay for one year of co personal coaching and one year of comm like the club and we just rotate off like Matt just switches off.

Oh, that's who was funny. Getting the personal coaching funny. That's really funny. So in the next few weeks it'll rotate to me getting the training plan as I prepare for Chicago. And then after Chicago it'll go back to Joe. And eventually when Noah's older, like we might be able to both do a [01:41:00] block at the same time, but we just can't right now.

Right. I understand. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Well, I need, I'm borrowing a stroller from a friend to, to practice pushing. Oh yeah. So I've gotta start, I'm gonna start putting my, hopefully my 4-year-old will sit in a stroller again, but, I'm assuming if I give her an iPad she will. Yeah. so anyway, I could talk to you all day.

This has been so much fun. Well thanks, thank you for doing this with me and I'm just so happy for you. Thanks. And thank you to everybody who's listened. 

Johanna Kitchell: Yes. Thank you . It's awesome. 

Ally Brettnacher: And happy running. 

Johanna Kitchell: You too. 

Ally Brettnacher: Yay. 

Johanna Kitchell: We did 

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