Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 125: Max Glenn - A Dream Deferred

Here's how you can enjoy this episode:
- Spotify (watch or listen)
- YouTube (watch and listen)
- Apple Podcasts
- Amazon Music

Guest: Max Glenn @mdg_8888

Show Notes:

Max Glenn⁠ and I first met in person at the Carmel Marathon expo this year (when the race was ultimately canceled due to weather). Max went on to run his marathon PR during the Full Mo 50K this year where I got to cheer him on.

During this episode, sponsored by ⁠Previnex⁠ and ⁠Athlete Bouquets⁠, we talk about:

• Having girls the same age (4 & 8) and how hard it is to get them to sleep 

• How he was born on a day of perfect number alignment - 8/8/88

• Growing up in Missouri and the 1,000 acre farm is paternal grandparents have in Iowa

• The reason he became a theatre kid growing up and how it was his first career

• What it was like being a first generation college student

• How he ended up in Indiana and did ⁠Teach for America⁠

• Getting into running and using the Nike Run Club App

• Going from being a solo runner to joining the ⁠Fishers Running Club ⁠

• His first marathon at the Carmel Marathon in 2023 and how it left him feeling very unsatisfied.

• ⁠The Kofuzi Run Club ⁠and how he’s a part of that and helped host the club at Monumental when he ran in 2023 

• The Des Moines Marathon in Iowa and how it brought his family together for the first time since his wedding 

• Our feelings on the 5K

• Max’s mental health journey (September is National Suicide Prevention Month 988 is the number to call if you or someone you know is struggling)

• His running buddy, Sheamus

  Sponsor Details:

  - ⁠Previnex⁠ - Use code ALLYB for 15% off your first order

  - ⁠Athlete Bouquets⁠ - Use code PODCAST for 10% off your order

  This is a ⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠ podcast.

Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

 

Ally Brettnacher: Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast to celebrate the everyday runner. I'm your host, Allie Brett Knocker, and if you run your runner and every runner has a story, join me every Friday as I share these stories and we cross finish lines and celebrate milestones together. This week's episode is brought to you by Previnex. Previnex provides clinically effective supplements that promote longevity, performance, and everyday health. If you listen to this podcast, you've heard me talk about this before, but I love taking Pren Gut and Green Superfoods primarily to help with my digestion and my natural energy.

they have clinically studied ingredients. Only the highest quality, and not to mention they're actually local [00:01:00] to where I'm from, Carmel, Indiana. I've gotten the chance to meet their CEO David Block who is really passionate about creating health, not just for our communities, but also for malnourished children.

Every purchase allows them to give a bottle of their super VITs kids vitamins to the most in need children. So I'm not sure I've ever told you that before, but just know that when you're supporting Previnex, you're also supporting. Children in need and a local business if you are local to this area. So if you would like to try Previnex, you can head to previnex.com, which is P-R-E-V-I-N-E x.com, and you can use Code ALLY 15 for 15% off your first order.

Thank you so much to pre X for supporting this podcast.

Before I get to this week's guest, I want to congratulate everybody who participated in a local ultra marathon, a backyard ultra marathon this past Saturday, September 6th. I was just in awe. I'm so excited that I got to go out and see this in person for the first time.

So Prairie On Fire. Backyard [00:02:00] Ultra is a backyard ultra format, which if you're not familiar with this, it is a 4.167 mile loop that you basically sign up to do as many times as you physically can. And the last man standing. Wins. So congratulations to Jeff Walker who did 38, what they call yards, basically laps or hours out on the course.

That's 158.346 miles nuts. So congrats on that win. It's just mind blowing. And to see the final three still going after 150 miles it was really, really fun to see. I went out and did some chalk art in the morning and then went back with my family later in the day and it was just so inspiring.

It really makes me wanna do it. It's so cool. So shout outs. I'm gonna go first to TJ Daley, who was the race director and then his partner in crime, Christy D who has been on this podcast who also participated in the event and ran [00:03:00] 75 miles and. Others I wanna shout out are the women who ran a hundred miles.

So it was the first time they ever had a woman run a hundred miles, and it was four of them. So Sarah Farney, who's been on this podcast, who is part of Fisher's Run Club, Angela Kumar, Gracie Bell, who ended up winning for the Women and Tammy Ante, I mean, holy cow. Four women ran a hundred miles. Mind blowing which is what, 24 hours of running?

I don't understand. And then a few other previous podcast guests to shout out would be Cameron Balzer, Jake Hostetler, again, Christy d Gabby Bear, and Logan Turner, Who was just on this podcast recently talking about his reason for running prayer on fire for his daughter Nora, who is diagnosed with a rare genetic disorder.

And so he did a few yards with her in tow and did 50 miles, which is just incredible. So it was fun to see them meet his family and be there to cheer him. So now I'm gonna transition to talk about this week's guest is Max Glenn. He is part of the Fisher's Running Club [00:04:00] here locally. So I got to interview Max in person at my new video studio, and I had a little bit of a cold.

You can kind of tell I think in my voice and I don't have my usual energy. I feel like when I was listening back, it just sounded like I was really tired, which I think I was at the time. But I wanna share some updates from Max since we did record a little bit ago. he is getting ready to pace a friend at the Geist half Marathon, which is this weekend.

It's on Saturday, September 13th. It is an amazing race here. Beautiful course. Little bit of elevation, which is fun in flat Indiana. I am not running this year. Which pains me. I do love that race. And then he also raced his first cross country 5K, which was an Indie Runners Charity Challenge. Congrats Max on that. That sounds so fun. And then, full circle moment. He recently started a new job actually on Monday for Teach for America, which is part of his journey. So you'll hear about that during this episode and then this episode does talk about suicide, and this month of September is [00:05:00] National Suicide Prevention Month. And so you should know that the crisis line that is available 24 7 is 9 8 8. So if you or someone you know is struggling, crisis support is here. And of course this community is here as well, but we talk about that journey and what mental health means to max.

During this episode, we also talk about how we have kids the same age, how he was born on 8/8/88, his upbringing, how he got into running, how he's a first generation college student, his marathon. Experiences, how we feel about the 5K, let's just say he loves it a lot more than I do.

And then we also talk about his running buddy Seamus, his dog. So I think you're gonna love this episode in conversation with Max Glenn.

Hi, howdy Max. Welcome. Thank you, Allie. Thanks for coming over from Fishers. Absolutely. This library is amazing. It's so amazing. Like it's genuinely amazing. It's so bougie. It's so caramel. It's people. It's so caramel.

Yeah. People who are from [00:06:00] Indiana get it. Yes. It is. It is very nice. I've enjoyed watching it and like, oh, you actually watch it? I do. I watch it when I like have like, so most of the time I listen to your podcast, I'm in my car, I'm commuting either to work or to sites and whatever. Yeah. And so I can't do it then obviously. But. I'm a night owl, so I will put, like, if I am wanting to just unwind at the end of the night at like 10, 11 o'clock at night, I will put it on and I'll watch the video version.

Oh wow. So you're one of like the three people that does that? Yeah. Thank you. Of course. No, well, people say you have to have video now for podcasts. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna, I'll do that. But I do like to watch podcasts as well. Of course I watched the Taylor Swift one 'cause I had to, I haven't seen, I've seen clips.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm not a swifty, I'm, I'm swift appreciative, but I'm not a swifty myself. Well, 'cause you're a girl dad. I am a girl dad and our girls are the same age. They're the same age. So weird. It is very weird. four is intense. I'm in, I'm in four right now.

Oh. Four is just really hard. Four is really hard. I haven't slept in my bed in a long time because of four. Oh. Yeah. I slept in a trundle bed last night with my [00:07:00] 4-year-old. Oh, you slept in, alright. I see. I get in her beds like they have a bunk bed. It's fulls and, which is great. Yeah. Except my oldest doesn't wanna sleep in the top anymore.

She wants to sleep with her sister. Which just causes, see, like my oldest at four was a nightmare for sleep. And now she's, she loves her bunk bed. She loves her top bunk. She prefers it above all else. she'll come snuggle with, my wife Pamela for a bit. Yeah. But then she'll immediately go back up to her bed.

'cause she's built this comfy haven and we, yeah. She's finally been trained at it. But my girls now share a bedroom. My wife now has a new job, got a new job in April. She works from home entirely. Okay. We converted one of their bedrooms into an office. Okay. Yeah. So that they share a room. And my 4-year-old just decided about when they turned four that like all their easy sleeping, it's gone.

Uh, it's screaming, it's yelling at us. Mm-hmm. It's, uh, like, you're not the best daddy. I'm gonna throw you in a trash can. Ooh. Yeah, she's, she's got deep, I love it. She's got deep feelings. Yeah. It's there. Geez. It is fun. It's such an adventure. And it's like, people, like, why do you, why do you being so polite?

I know. Because [00:08:00] I mean, yeah. We were like super unfiltered. It's like, yeah. Sometimes, you know, just wanna like, shake, her a little bit. I, well, it's, it's love it. I know it. I know it will pass. Like it doesn't, that doesn't, right. Like I love them, but man, they're Terry right now. Yeah. But it won't last forever.

It won't. It won't. And it's also like you see the glimpses of who they're becoming. Yeah. I don't know what, like your four year old's like, oh, I feel like there's just this massive growth and language and a desire to be independent, but it's now like she doesn't know how to handle a boundary and like when like, it's like no.

And so I realized like, oh, I have to explain things very. Yeah. And still that doesn't help. It doesn't always help, but like, it's getting me closer. You try, it's getting a little better. Yeah. What are their names? Uh, my oldest is Nora. Okay. Eleanor. She goes by Nora. I named her after my, my grandmother. Oh, that's my maternal grandmother.

Yeah. And then, , my youngest is Penelope or Penny. So Nora and Penny. Oh, I love both of those names. Yeah. Penny is so cute. Yes. Do you know the Hanson song? Penny And Me. Yes. Yeah. It's one of my favorites actually. I haven't listened to Hanson in a [00:09:00] long time and that like, that was one of my first tape cassettes I ever owned.

Yeah. It was like Hansen and Coolio. Oh yeah. This was my first tapes as a kid. That's so cute. That I, that I owned. But Child of the eighties? Yes. When we first met in person. Mm-hmm. Was that the first time we No, we met in person at the expo. Yeah. For the first time. Yeah. But then when we first shared Miles, yes.

You told me the significance of the numbers that are in your Instagram profile. Yes. When you were born, so tell the people. Yes. So I was born in a perfect number alignment 8 8 19 88. So if you ever find my Instagram handle, it's usually some version of MDG, which is my initials. 88. 88. it's, it's just my birthday.

the stars were faded, I suppose. Yeah. It's my luck. Obviously. I have a lucky number. Clearly. Clearly. So wild. I, I have yet to get a bib though. That's 88. 88 or 88. Like I, I don't if you have to request that. I was gonna say, I don't know if that's even, I'm trying to picture the registration process.

I don't know if you can put any notes in. I don't think I can, but I bet you could reach out to like, info at whatever race and just ask. I think the [00:10:00] closest I could probably do is maybe a TJ Daily race. My next one. Totally. I could probably just be like, you need to gimme the numbers 88 please. If you have 88.

Yeah. I mean, clearly they'll have 88. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be, I mean, in most races, like larger races would have 88. 88. Yes. Very big ones. I think the big, you could just start requesting it. Just try. I'll, I'll do that. Okay. I'll call the race draft. Gonna hold you to it. All right, we'll gonna hold you to it.

Let's see. So my next big race is. Or, alright. Yeah. Alright. What's your next big Great, well that's at the end. We'll talk about, we'll talk about it at the end. We'll talk about the, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here. And so with this whole thing, I'm gonna send this whole thing outta order. Yeah.

It's fine. Well, there is no order as you know right. From listening. Right. But I try to kind of do chronologically, but then you have to go down the tangents. Right. You can't ignore crazy things like the fact that your birthday's 8/8/88. Yeah. No app.

I was apparently like induced, like my mom got tired 'cause it's August, right? Yeah. My, it's August, it's Northern Missouri. It's hot. And my mom's like, I can't take this anymore. We're going to the hospital. They're coming out. You know? 'cause they didn't, you couldn't know the, the biology of the baby yet.

Like, they didn't have that [00:11:00] technology yet. Oh. So like, they didn't know. They didn't, not in, not in northern Missouri. No. Okay. I, I've think good for my, I don't even know actually. So that she didn't, you know, she didn't know if she was having a boy or a girl. Okay. I was gonna be a Molly if I was a girl. I know that much.

So that, is that your alter ego? No. Okay. You're like, absolutely not. I don't have this. Yeah. or I was gonna say, yeah, like for your, when you play with your girls, you could be Molly if they want you to be a princess. I just, I just lean into being a princess. I'm princess daddy. Yeah. That happens. Yeah. Um, okay.

So Northern Missouri also is super cold. Yes. No, I get, I get all the, I get all the Chicago. You say hearing you say Northern Missouri and hot together. Yeah. I'm like, that does not compute as much as thinking about Northern Missouri being so cold. Well, I mean, like, you know, Northern Missouri is like, Missouri's, like central Missouri's on the same latitude as, oh, I guess I'm thinking of Minnesota.

You're think of Minnesota. No, it's all, no, you're good. Okay. Because it is in the central. Yeah. So like, I mean, it's Monday. I, it's good. I haven't had enough coffee. It's all good. Okay. It's all good. No, so Northern Missouri, I'm from Kirksville, Missouri. Okay. Have you ever heard of Truman State? No. It's okay if you haven't.

It's a small liberal arts college. I went to it. Okay. but [00:12:00] yeah. or at still university? Nope. It's a medical school. That's fine. It's all good. Yeah. So I'm from northern Missouri, town of 17,000 and. yeah. So we get, it's really hot in the summer. Really hot and humid. Yeah. 'cause it's right in the, yeah, it's in the middle.

Pretty much. It's right in the middle. The middle and it's right. You were right on the border of Iowa. Like close to Yes, very close to. I'm tra I'm like now. Yes, I'm with you. I get it. So, yeah. So my dad, it's northeast Missouri. It's not too far from Illinois. We get a lot of Chicago snow. Okay. Yeah. 'cause of just the way the, the, the lake effect kind of stuff.

Lake effect stuff comes. Yeah. So we got plenty of snow. I actually got a snow day in college once. That was a good time. I did too. In Ohio. Is, isn't that amazing? It was nuts. Like you couldn't do anything. Really. I loved it. I went hiking outside. We did. We had a great time. No, uh, but like my, all my dad's family and now my dad, they live in Iowa.

Okay. So like South central Iowa. So like. Missouri Missouri's home, but like my backyard's always been Iowa. Okay. Like I, that's so much time at my grandparents' farm. So much time with my cousins. I have so many cousins on my dad's side. Do you have siblings? Did you visit? I have one older sister. One older sister, okay.

I have one older sister. How [00:13:00] much older is she than you? Three and a half years. Okay. Yeah, she just turned 40 this year. Okay. Yeah, she's, she's killing it. She's awesome. She's a, she's a single mom and she just, her youngest just started college. Wow. Yeah. Whoa. Yeah. That's crazy. But no, she's, she's amazing.

She's a, she's a cosmetologist, so she, and she just became partner of her business like a year ago. Oh, that's amazing. Does she still live where you're from? No, I, okay. I, and the people who are in my hometown still are my grandfather. My li my 100 and 1-year-old grandfather. I was gonna say, you have a grandfather that's alive.

That's great. Yes. 101 years old. Uh, lives alone. That's cool. Um, that's terrifying. He lives right down the street and Amazing. It's amazing. Like it is terrifying. He lives down the street from my uncle. So like, so he, that's so cool. Right. So like there's the treasures, my mom's side of the family are still very tied into each other.

Mm-hmm. So like my mom's side of the family is still very much in Kirksville, Missouri. My mom and my sister and my aunt live in Central Missouri. So Columbia area, Columbia, Missouri. I've heard of that. Is that the capital? It's just [00:14:00] north of it. Uh, that's the capital. Jefferson city. That's right. And that's fine.

I used to memorize, you know, in school memorized. Yeah. Columbia should be the capital. It seems like it. Yeah, it should be. I know nothing. No, it's, no, Columbia Columbia's where University of Missouri is. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So like big college town. Yeah. It's like 120,000 and Okay. Super, super hilly.

'cause you're starting to get into Central, central South Missouri, which is where you get the Ozarks and the mountains mm-hmm. And the, the forestry and all that stuff. Yep. Yep. Now, so that's where they are. So Kirksville, 17,000, there's no mall. So we drove 90 minutes south to Columbia whenever we need to go to a mall.

When I was growing up, which is a lot. 'cause you didn't have Amazon obviously. No, no, absolutely not. So how many minutes to the mall? It was, we had a song where we would sing as kids, like We are going to Columbia. 'cause it felt like so exciting. Like it was like, ah, we're going to, we're going to the big city.

That's great. Columbia, Missouri. Yeah. Yeah. Three and a half hours from St. Louis. So that's the closest big city I here. Okay. Okay. And then when you were growing [00:15:00] up, you mentioned the farm. What kind of farm did your My was your grandparents? Yeah. It's my dad's side. My dad's side. Okay. Dad's side has a farm.

My dad's fa farm Yes. Has a farm. They have 1000 acres in Plano, Iowa. That is, and do they have animals or crops or both or predominantly crops. Okay. Predominantly corn and soy and wheat. Okay. Uh, there are some cattle. my cousin velvet had a horse, or still might have some horses. But no, my, my grandpa Gene, I think he's passed in 2014, but like the farm was his life's work and he got it with my.

I would say he started farming, because he was the only son in his family and all during World War ii, he couldn't get drafted. Oh. So like he, 'cause he had to farm. Mm. Like, uh, if you were a farmer's son, you often, you even, you didn't have any brothers like you would have to stay. Oh, interesting. So, like, he didn't, he got drafted in 1945 and was getting ready to go deploy, and then I think VJ Day happened.

And so like, it was one of the weird moments. Like my grandma told me these stories, he wasn't able to, but like that it was one of the [00:16:00] great disappointments of his life. But like then he deeply invested in building this farm over generations. And my uncle Tim is like, runs it now. And my dad, as of my grandma's passing, bought her house on the farm and that's where my dad lives.

Okay. Yeah. Wow. That's cool. Yeah. That's so's There's 1000 acres that are, it's Glen Farms. That's huge. My, it's massive. It's, it's, I can't really even visualize what that is. How many miles? I don't know. I was gonna think, yeah, we'd have to, we're gonna have to look that up, honestly. Yeah. We're gonna have to Google that as chat GPT.

Right. But it's this thing where like, like a year ago when I was going to do the marathon out there mm-hmm. Like, we stopped in Plano, Iowa, we saw my dad, we hung out, and it was just like, you step outside and it's just basically like you look around and it's all these rolling, rolling farm fields. It's not like central Indiana where everything's flat.

It's like it's all rolling hills and just corn. Like the corn was harvested at that point. So it's sort of the emptied fields. Yeah. Yeah. And what's left over and Yep. But like cattle and just this giant sky. I didn't like, I was such a city kid, [00:17:00] which was weird. A funny thing to say from being a small town, but like I was such an indoor kid growing up.

Yeah. Okay. That like, I didn't appreciate it when I was little. I definitely appreciate it now. Now. Yeah. Yeah. 10000%. Yeah. Well now I feel like Indiana is probably so similar in a way to where you grew up, except for we don't. I mean, people will say it's that we have rolling hills, it's in car. And I'm like, it's like, it's a very different, it feels very different.

Okay. I've come, I've come to love Central Indiana, but it is a very different sort of vibe. It's a very d and I can't, I can't even fully articulate it yet. Yeah. Hoosier, Hoosier hospitality is very different from Iowa, Missouri farmer mentality. Okay. And I, I don't, how so? I think Hoosiers are better at hosting people.

Like I think that, I genuinely believe that, I think there is a, there is an openness and it's not to say that like everyone I've met in Iowa is like super kind and friendly. But it's just, it's just the vibe is different. And I think also just the terrain is a little more rugged where I'm from. And so that's, I, you know, no one here knows how to handle snow.

Yeah. Well that's, I'm, I am not gonna argue that. 'cause I do [00:18:00] not, I hate driving in the snow. I hate it too. I hate, especially living here, having lived in places where like. People know what to do in the snow. And then there's Right. And people plow and people like, yeah. Here it's, it can be, there's a, there's definitely people who know what they're doing.

Yeah. But there's also a lot of people who do not. Yes. So it's rough. Um, okay. So then growing up, yeah. Were you athletic as a kid? I attempted athletic things. I wouldn't call myself athletic. Yeah. Uh, I attempted baseball because they told me to, my parents told me that you should try a sport. And then I remember very vividly in third grade, little league baseball, it was not a team.

It was the first year that like, you didn't have to, like, you could be in a rotation. Right. Like you could, you didn't have to bat that inning. You didn't have to like, play that inning. And I was on a team that went undefeated and it was the first time kids got to pitch at each other. And I remember like, our team won the little league championship and it was just like, I didn't really contribute that much and I don't think, and it's like, I don't think I minded.

Yeah. So I was kinda like, that's like, [00:19:00] I did a little bit of that. in junior high I wrestled. Okay. And that was, that was edifying. And like, I think that was a good thing to learn. Like I think I have a good athletic prowess in me. My, my dad got a scholarship for football. My dad is very Oh, okay.

My dad was very, my dad's very athletic. Yeah. but you said he did triathlons? He did do triathlons. That's funny. He did, he did two triathlons. Olympic distance. I got to try a power bar when I was like six. And it's still the most miserable taste thing I've ever, I really, when you I read that in your notes, me, and I was like, oh my gosh.

Yeah. Power bars are rough. They're awful. Yeah. It's like, are they made of plastic? I, you know, probably kind of, I don't know. They're gross. I, I'm not into it. That era of endurance sport is fascinating to me because like, so my dad like might not to put my dad on blast. He's a lifelong smoker. So like, he would go do a brick workout with his friends and then go light up a ro.

I mean, and like, that's, that, that's that era of people who would like run infinitely faster than me, can bike further, can swim longer, but they're still gonna light up a smoke right afterwards. Well, it's kind of like, and again, like I, whenever I talk about alcohol, I want people to know, [00:20:00] like, I still drink sometimes.

Yeah. sparingly. I have, I don't judge anybody who drinks, but it's also like. The cigarette era is now, I think, morphed into the alcohol area. Yeah. Where like endurance athletes that are still drinking, it's kind of like Yeah. I think will look back and it'll be the equivalent to well, it's like, why were you doing that?

Yeah. And it's like, well, 'cause yeah. It's great. I wanted to and you know, that's great. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. Yeah. That's cool. I, yeah, but I, I wrestled and I wrestled until I got to high school and I very much fell head over heels for someone who was a theater kid. Ah. And, uh, I wanted to spend time with her, and story alert, like this was never meant to be.

We were never a couple, it never happened. But I auditioned for a play. Everyone got cast because they needed boys. Perfect. It was Oklahoma by Rogers and Hammerstein. Oh. Great. That song's gonna be stuck in my head. I'm sorry. The rest of my life. but my dad always used to sing, oh, what a beautiful morning to wake us up.

And it was irritating. That is irritating. That what a menacing thing to do. Yeah. If anybody, yeah. I don't know if [00:21:00] anybody's ever even heard that song, but it's not, it's, I mean, it's a standard. It's pretty, it's pretty Oh, a beautiful, beautiful morning and you're just like, dad, shut up. Shut up. Yeah. But I, I did my first musical and then Okay.

And I got, I was in the chorus and then I just got hooked. Wow. And it had to like, and it was one of those things where 15, it was like, well, I can't do wrestling 'cause I have to do this and this is the thing I have to do and I have to get better at it. And like, it just, it was such a conviction that I had at like 15 years old.

'cause when that play was over and I was heartbroken that it was over and there was nothing, no other production to go work on. There was no other, oh yeah. You're like, ugh. There was no way to continue forward and like keep working on at the time. Yeah. As a freshman in high school, I was like, I was going insane.

Because it gave me like, such purpose for three months. And then also just the, I it is very, especially musical theater, it's very athletic, right? Like if you're dancing, you're right, you're dancing and singing. I at the same time, that's while presenting all this like emotional energy, like it's right, it's its own kind of, you know, like, well wearing, who knows what I, [00:22:00] in my sake, cowboy boots and some really tight wranglers.

So yeah. There you go. Mm. Perfect. Yeah. That's so funny. Yeah. And is there video evidence of this, uh, of that production? No. Mm, I think there's some photos somewhere. Okay. Yeah, I don't, I don't know if there's any, I'd have to go dig if there's any production, like videos of theater, right. Of stuff I've done.

Yeah. There's definitely photos I can go dig out at some point. Yeah. But like my, you know, high school and then later career, yeah. I did some limited theater when I was younger. I remember I was at the, God, what was it called? Like the. it was Princess in the Pea and I was like, the night one spot mattress.

Yes. Yeah. And I had to wear this ridiculous, like sweatshirt covered in feathers and like a hat and like, oh gosh, just stand there and sing a sing like this one. Melody. Yes. It was really funny. That was like my jam. And then I don't think I ever really got, I was trying to remember if I ever got any kinds of like, lead roles.

I tried out for stuff like in the Sound of Music and Annie and all those things when I was younger. But then once I got past junior high, I never did [00:23:00] anything except for like choir stuff. But yeah, nothing like what what were, what were what were you in choir? I was a soprano. Soprano? Yeah. I was a bass baritone.

Okay. Which meant like I was limited in musical theater as to what lead roles I could get because my voice is lower. Right. That makes sense. Um, so like, my best role in high school for music like a musical was easily, I played Bell's Father in beat, Disney's Beauty The Beast. Okay, hold on, hold on. P uh, Pierre?

No. Maurice. Maurice. Maurice. I think that's a great name. It is a great name. Yes. It's a beautiful name. Yes. Maurice. You know, you shoe polish to dye my hair. White shoe polish. Wow. Don't recommend it. That doesn't sound, that sounds messy. It is very messy. How did you get it out? A very thorough shower. Yeah.

That's hard. Oh my gosh. And just the, just very gunky hair for a while. Yeah. Gunky and like gr I, I picture it being so greasy. It was pretty greasy. Yeah. Well, in fact, actually for my 8-year-old last year, she wanted to be red from the descendants. Mm-hmm. Which, like every girl was her. HII think. But I bought this stuff on Amazon [00:24:00] that reminded me of shoe polish, but it was, yeah, you put it in your hair.

Oh yeah. No. And then you dry the hair. It was, it was interesting. Didn't love it. It was fine though. No, I mean, there's, there's better options for dyeing stuff I feel like these days. And also just accepting that like. Like most of what you can afford is probably not gonna be great on your hair and it's gonna need some deep conditioning.

Exactly. A week or so to work through. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. do your girls talk about Halloween year round? Like mind do? Yes. What are they gonna be this year? Uh, Nora, my oldest, went to Jen Conn with me and found a wig, and she's building this like furry wolf costume love piece by piece. my youngest one to be a witch.

Perfect. Yeah. But would you paint her face green if she wants? I think it, it's all like, that's, that's so fair. 'cause you know, no, it's, it's, you're not gonna do anything. She does want, my kids are very, my kids are very independent and they have like, especially Nora, my oldest has such a vision artistically for like what she wants that like, that's cool.

It's mostly just like, give her the tools to do it. Yeah. Penny. It's just sort of checking in. Last year she was a pirate. We asked if she wanted the mustache. She did. She then found other pirates and sort of dod them, on the street. Oh, that's so fun. Yeah. She has a dramatic, like, she has [00:25:00] my dramatic instinct.

Yeah. That's so great. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So school. You did high school theater too? Yeah, I did. Yeah. So I did high school theater. I attempted to try out for soccer. Okay. It was the one year I didn't take everybody, so I didn't get in. Great. And I, I genuinely, like, it's, I don't have any regrets really.

I do regret, like I wasn't this close to trying cross country. Right. I know I never did. And like, but like I ever, like, because I was at a, I remember I was in a, a youth group at the time and one of its, coaches, like the people in charge was also the cross country coach. She was a very nice woman.

Theresa Gooch. Shout out to Theresa Gooch. Theresa. Hope you're watching. but Theresa was the cross country coach and she was the first person who ever taught me about running. And like very just, just told me very simply, like, well, if you wanna run, just give yourself an amount of time. Just run for 25 minutes.

Don't worry about how fast or how far. Just give yourself an amount of time. Interesting. And that was, and so me and my CD Walkman, with an antis, Skipp technology. Yes. It, was it yellow? Was it the Sony It was the, it was the silver Sony one. Okay. [00:26:00] Yeah. I think I had that one too. It would like, hold it like a Frisbee.

Yeah. While you're, or actually I think one of them could clip, had the, like, the clip, but like, oh, Jesus. So like, you know, like the antis skip. Oh my gosh, that's so funny to think about. I know. And so that's where sort of running sort of started. Okay. but no, it was once I was in high school, it was all like, I was all in on theater.

Like I joined choir, not because I wanted to be in choir, but I needed to get better at singing. Yeah. For theater. Yeah. For theater. Okay. And like, it just, it was the thing where like I, I did very well academically in high school and I did very well academically in school and all my, I grew up in a college town, so all my friends are college.

Professors children. Okay. And so college identity quickly became part of my life. And like both my parents are, you know, attempted college did not work out for either of 'em. Right. Yeah. I think it's so interesting that you're first gen college. Yes. No, like college. It's, and it's very much a thing where, like my dad went to the same college I graduated from.

He got a year and a half in and then flunked out. Okay. as, and he's, he's quick to admit like he, he was, he was far more interested in partying Yeah. And playing sports and than he was his [00:27:00] academics. Yeah. My mom, like it was a financial issue. She got, went there for three days and then couldn't realize she couldn't really afford her textbooks and things.

So she had to back out and had a very strong, meaningful career in law. She was a legal secretary and then a clerk for a public defender's office. Um, she just recently retired. but like, it was very clear that like, I'm gonna go to college and there was a belief that I'm gonna go to college. And then the, heartbreak that I was like, I'm gonna go do theater.

But like, my mom was, my mom was awesome, my mom was awesome. 'cause she was just like, this makes you happy so you have to go do it. That's good. And that was, that was all I needed. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So did you study theater in college? I studied theater in college. I have two degrees in theater. Wow. I did not even know it went so deep in the theater.

I mean, I, it was my first career Yeah. Before I moved to Indiana. Like I was a, theater professional. So, I go to college in my hometown. and it would, you know, being first gen is a, is a fascinating journey because it's like the weird tension of like, when you go to college and your parents [00:28:00] haven't, like, there is suddenly like all these things you learn about in the broader world.

Because that, I think, I think that's what a lot of college is like. I think there's a lot of emphasis now on career and stuff, and I think that's cool. And like the workplace, but like. Just the broader world. Yeah. You're just kinda like learning how to like live. Yeah. Learning how to live, but also just like learning about the world.

Yeah. And the world beyond where you're from and all the, and experiences and things like that. And they become experiences that are hard to relate back to your family if they haven't had those experiences. Yeah. And so that becomes sort of a barrier. And then like, meeting everyone in my college. 'cause I think we went to similar kinds of institutions, liberal arts institutions.

Mm-hmm. Like a lot of people I went with like went to high schools that cost more than the college I was on scholarship to attend. Yeah. And so like just their life experiences. Right. Way different. So different than mine. Uhhuh. And then also like I'm a, I was a townie for my undergraduate. Like I'm from the town which had this very also strong rural streak to it.

Yeah. Yeah. And so like how much of that do I show and not be judged and things like that. Right. Townies man. yeah, we used to judge Townies in college for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Like, and I, I'm, I'm [00:29:00] guilty of it as well, but it's just, that's like, why, that's just where you live. That's where they live.

That's who they're, yeah. They just happen to live there and then be able to go to school there. 'cause that's super nice that they live so close Right. To a school. It's just funny to think about that. Yeah. Yeah. So what did you have a scholarship for? For theater? Uh, so I did have a theater scholarship. It didn't cover everything.

Okay. But still. That's awesome. Yeah. Thank you. I mostly added just an academic scholarship. So Truman State, where I got my bachelor's, has, a pretty robust merit-based scholarship program through their foundations and stuff. and so, but you also have to do like, work study on top of it. So college was, I had a real job.

I had a work study job, and then I was, in classes and in productions Wow. For four years. And it was. I wouldn't change, change it for the world. Well, it's great training for endurance sports. It's great training for endurance sports. the, the things you do in like acting class that are so strange and athletic, like the amount of like just being in touch with your body that like actor training demands of you.

Like that was, that was also one of the things that stuck with me very early on at an acting [00:30:00] teacher. And he was very adamant. Like, I was like, you do not have to look like Brad Pitt. You do not have to have washboard abs. I need you all to be using the rec center though, because I need you to be athletic.

I need you to be in touch with how your body moves. If you're going to be an actor, you have to have control of your body and what it can do, whatever those limit, whatever those limits or upper limits are. Yeah. Interesting. Because if like it's the idea, like how do, how do you make your body do the things that you needed to do on stage or on screen?

It's like you, you have to be in touch with it. How do you do that? You, you, you, you're fit, you do yoga, you run, you lift. So for me that was running and lifting. That's so interesting. So that's, is that ultimately then what got you into the sport? Yeah, I think it was a bit of that. So like, through, undergraduate and graduate school for theater, like I was an, I was an OG CrossFit person.

Ooh. Like weight, but like didn't go to a box. Okay. But like, the website. Interesting. When did CrossFit come? I think it originally came around in like two thou, like, I think originally, originally like 2007. Okay. Is when [00:31:00] like they St. Glassman started posting stuff. But like, I'm back from the day of like, just the workout of the day is posted on crossfit.com Really?

And you go read it and then it's just a tho a forum basically of people posting their stuff Interesting. And like attempting it or how they modified it. And so that is super og. It's very OG and it's not safe. Yeah. I was also like, yeah, like, like without supervision, don't recommend it. Yeah. 'cause the moves that you're doing and it's like, it can be very scary.

Like, I, I, I, I think the, my saving grace was in high school. I had to make up a PE credit. From all the fine arts classes I took. So I skipped sophomore pe. Okay. And had to make it up with weightlifting senior year. Senior. Okay. Then you could learn how to, I learned how to Olympic lift moves. Yeah. I learned how to Olympic, like I learned all the proper weight movements for barbell and I learned Olympic, they also taught us Olympic lifts.

Okay. So I knew, I learned how to clean and jerk and I learned how to snatch in high school as a theater kid. Yeah. That's kind of funny. It's a great, it's an amazing skill. It is. It's, I, I, I clean and jerk my small children all the time when we wrestle, just like Yeah. Right. You need to go to the top bunk without getting on the stairs.

[00:32:00] Who hoo, here you go. Right. No. It's like that got me into it and like running as sport. Start that, that inkling started in graduate school. There was a guy in our lighting program, he was a supervisor. So he is not a student in like, so I'm working on my master's in theater at that time. Okay. And he's a, now you have a master's in theater type.

I have a MAs Master's in theater history. 'cause I thought I was gonna go be a professor at that point. Wow. Okay. That's so cool. Thank you. But he was the lighting supervisor. His name's Matt Hasard. but he was really in his running era at that time. Oh. Like, and he is, like, I'm a big runner. Like I'm physically like a bigger runner.

He is a, he's a giant, he's a former Marine. Oh my gosh. He's like six three. but like there was a bunch of us that decided to do this, 5K that like raised money, for like the local like sexual assault awareness programming in Columbus, Ohio. 'cause my master's degree is from Ohio State. Okay. and so, but I, we ran this 5K and like I just saw him flying.

He was like this giant like Clydesdale horse that could fly. Yeah. Yeah. And like we hit it off as friends and [00:33:00] we would go do some five Ks together in between his training for like. I think he's done like some ultras and some Okay. He had done some ultras and some marathons. Like we would do some local 5K races together and that kind of stuff was always in the back pocket.

Yeah. It was just like if a race opportunity rolled my way. Oh sure. Why not? Yeah, because I'm just lifting and running and enjoying my life and yeah. Being athletic, the whole like more formal running didn't start until I moved to Indiana. Okay. And then, so what brought you to Indiana? Work? Yeah. Theater. So, um, in 2017, my, my oldest is born.

Okay. And so I'm still working for Cleveland Playhouse, so regional, so for, that's a regional theater. So it's similar to IRT, Indiana Repertory Theater. Yep. so like Broadway budget, but located in Cleveland, Ohio. Okay. So I'm doing work for them. I'm doing community and theater education stuff with them and my wife and I have a very hard conversation 'cause my wife's from Indiana, uh, she's from Fort Wayne.

Okay. My parents are from Fort Wayne. Yes. Mm-hmm. The Fort Wayne area. And we're just like, we need to be closer to family. For our, for our children. [00:34:00] Right. Or for our, so even Indiana's closer to Missouri and Iowa there too, obviously. So, yes. So we had, we had some parameters going for how we were gonna pick where to live.

And it was important to both of us. 'cause she's a former theater professional as well. Okay. Um, we met in graduate school while she was getting her doctorate and we wanted to be in a city. So it's like, okay. That brings the list down to Indianapolis and St. Louis. Yeah. Basically for us. Yeah. I mean Kansas City maybe.

But we, she had never been there before. So like, St. Louis, Indianapolis. And then I think at the time, like the NAACP came out that like Missouri was not safe for women. Just like end of like vi Right. So it's like all great, it's Indianapolis, we're not gonna go there. Right, exactly. Yeah. So it was there. So it was like, and began thinking like, well then I'll pivot fully into education.

I'll become a full-time educator. I'll go get my transition to teach license. And I got it through Teach for America. So Teach for America. Mm-hmm. Uh, their programming, they have an office in Indianapolis, they help me relocate. And I had done a lot of theater arts work with. Students with disabilities. So I plugged into their special education program and, uh, that's [00:35:00] what brought me to Indy.

That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so you didn't, why didn't you wanna live in Fort Wayne? It's just too small of a city. They didn't have a t they didn't have a TFA program there. Okay. Yeah. We, I do they now? No. I feel like it's grown so much. No. So like TFA has an essential, tell people what it is again.

Yeah. So Teach for America is a national organization, pre funded by AM help co-funded by AmeriCorps, that helps people into transit, do a two year teaching service project, basically like, and get their teaching license throughout. And it's got this giant alumni network. So a lot of people either stay in the classroom or open schools, or a lot of people go on to become doctors, lawyers, politicians and stuff.

So they built this kind of powerful network. And it started in the nineties to address like, yeah. students in like disadvantaged communities or in communities that are under resource, not having enough teachers of quality there. So that was their premise originally. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so I taught, on 30th Street.

Okay. In, in Indianapolis? Yeah. My dad used to be on the board for Teach for America in Indiana. Oh, really? Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's amazing. [00:36:00] Yeah. So I'm like familiar with it. Yeah. But, I don't know if I know anybody who's done the program. I'm trying to think if I have my, one of my best childhood friends did AmeriCorps.

Yeah. Which for people who don't know is like the Peace Corps, but in America. Yes. Which I didn't know existed until she did it. Yeah. yeah, super interesting. The special education piece of, that's really cool too, that you did that. No, it was, it's easily one of the, the hardest, like that whole transition was hard.

'cause I mean, I'm just thinking about all the things that line up there. You're becoming a dad for the first time, then you're moving, then you're, that move was in, it's the craziest move I, I hopefully will ever do in my life because it was, we packed up our, our, our place in the Cleveland area. We drive to my, my wife's parents' house in near Fort Wayne.

Okay. They drop me off in Indianapolis by myself for a week, and then I go to Houston, Texas to do my teacher training by myself and then come back and we move to someplace in Indianapolis. Okay. And then at what point was Nora born? Nora was, Nora was one years old when all this, she was already one. Okay.

She [00:37:00] was one, she was born in Ohio. Sorry. No, it's all good. Yeah, she was born in Cleveland. Okay. She was born in Cleveland. Yeah. So she's one when you, which is still like, yes. It was insane. And like more we're up heaving two we're up heaving two careers. Yeah. Like, we're up heaving like, a ton of like Yeah.

Like, and I was letting go of my theatre life at that point. Right. To, start something entirely new. Yeah. So different. Very different. Yeah. Okay. And so then you do the two year program for TFA for Teach for America. And then where'd you go from there? Uh, so I was, I finished my, my commitment and then I taught for two more years at a different school.

Okay. Okay. And then now I work in for the Department of Education for Indiana. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. God bless teachers. They're, there's not enough, I can say for, for good educators, right? Yeah. And what they do. Yeah. So, thank you. And what they, for all the teachers? Yes, all the teachers. All of them.

All of them, yeah. Yeah. No, but it was that first year in indie as a special educator. So like on top of teaching I was also getting my, my second master's in special ed while I'm doing this. Okay, sure. Yeah. 'cause you have to do that, right? It's part of your licensure. [00:38:00] Uh, so I'm doing that. Uh, that's when I.

Decided I want, like, it's been a bucket list item to do a marathon, but I figured I have, I should do a half first. Seems fair. It seems fair. Yeah. Which is when I, that first year is when I started training for my first half marathon advice. Okay. Did you get ingrained in a running club here? Or like how did you The Nike Run Club app.

That's right. Okay. The Nike, the Nike Run Club app is this amazing app that I don't even know how I learned about it. Okay. But I, so I had a smart, by that point, I had a smartphone that we left the Sega, you know, the Sony Walkman behind mm-hmm. Sadly left my iPod behind. those iPods great. I mean, I miss the, I mean, I miss them so much.

Like That's wild. A way to not be reached and listened to my music. Right. That sounds amazing. Yeah. I just, yeah. Download your playlist and turn on airplane mode. I, that's okay. That's clearly all right. Yeah. Fair enough. Now you That's great. You have a great pod. Great, great. Awesome. That's what I'm gonna do, do later today.

Yeah. no, so it's this app and it, you know, tracks your miles. So I didn't have a GPS watch at the time, so like, this was 2019, so it didn't have a GPS watch yet. so track my miles and your pace, and then they added audio guided runs. Which is great. This is amazing. Great. Have you ever done an [00:39:00] audio guided run?

I have. 'cause Peloton has them. Oh, okay. They, yeah, they're, they're so good. It fun. They're so, it's fun. They're so fun and encouraging and like Yeah. It's just way different than being alone with your thoughts. Somebody's telling you what to do. You feel like you're, yeah. I'm like, yeah, I'm sharing in something with this.

Or there's someone who's giving me things to think about in terms of running, mm-hmm. About breathing or about like perspective and things like that. Yeah. And so, yeah, it's great. It wasn't like a formal program that I was following, but it was just like, I'm just kept doing the Nike Run Club app. And I was, and it was a very funny thing of like, I didn't, despite the fact I had done races, I didn't understand race pricing.

Okay. 'cause I was mentally training for the Indie Mini. Okay. I hadn't signed up for it. Alright. Yeah. And then I get ready to register for the Indie Mini. Okay. What year would this have been now? 2019. Okay. But we're in one income, 'cause my wife is, you know, adjusting and trying to get her career up and going again.

Yeah. And then I see the price for the Indie Mini, right before the Indie Mini, like literally like three weeks out from the Yeah. And it's like, oh, I can't pay that. Oh. Like, what, what was the price? I don't remember. It's probably similar to what it is now. [00:40:00] Yeah. But it was like, you know, closer to a hundred or something.

Like No, I was gonna guess like 80 bucks. Yeah. And it's like, ah, what do I do? Yeah. And then I looked up like, oh, there's this Geist half marathon, I'll go there. Oh yeah. Way cheaper probably at the time. Way less expensive. Yeah. Um, I trained on the Monan. Yeah. Okay. Strictly, pretty much, I was not ready for Geist.

So. Wait, were you living in Fishers at the time? No, no. I lived, I lived on 46 in college. Okay, okay. Yeah. So, which would be considered SoBro. SoBro, yeah. Yeah, I was in SoBro. Okay. So running in the beautiful flat. Monan mm-hmm. With the occasion, unless I was going north. Beautiful. Flat being the keyword there.

You're alluding to Beautiful. Yep. Experience. And then I, I go to Geist and I drive up to Fishers, Indiana for the first time. Yeah. And I see the beautiful bridge and all that stuff. And then I go to it and I hadn't trained any hills at all. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ran Geist before? Oh yeah. Right. So like, there's the, there's the, the 'cause it's, you know, sort of an out and back, right?

And so you go down the hill and you go into the chorus and you're winding through it and I'm having a decent time. Yeah. I, there's, there's some pictures from it I can [00:41:00] find in like happier moments. And I'm having, I'm enjoying, I have, I had the iPod Mini and that's, oh yeah, I have my, those, I was, that's what I was using for my music.

Yeah. And then I realized I have to go back up the hill and I'm dying. And I remember I'm running next to someone who apparently just ran Boston and she's just very like, just like, oh yeah, I just ran Boston and that was great. You're doing great. Just keep going. And then they flew up there. Was that Sarah Farney?

My, who knows. I have, I have, I have Sarah Farney and I have met each other before we met each other. Yeah, definitely. That's different. Definitely. That's a different story. Okay. Yeah. And then I remember like, I got through it and it was just like wild and disorienting experience. My wife and my only child at the time was there at the finish line and I got my medal and it was a thrill.

And I was like, I'll start working towards the full marathon. And then COVID happened, right. And I stopped running. Interesting. Yeah. I had the opposite reaction. Like, a lot of people were like, oh, I guess we're just gonna run around. No. So, yeah. So, uh, the Monan got really busy and my wife, like we, we miscarried very [00:42:00] early during COVID.

Oh, right. And like, we're just, so, and I was teaching still at the time, so I actually still was going into classrooms and stuff like that. And so, and we were trying to have our second kid, which we were successfully did, and that's Penny or my 4-year-old. But like, it became a thing where like, I just, you know, we didn't know anything.

I feel like that was a recent theme in your chat with Katie, uh, Braier. So like, you just didn't know. Right. So like, I very much was just like, I'm just going to minimize any. Physical contact I have. Right. With anyone that I don't have to have. Yeah. So I stopped running and just lifted weights at home.

Okay. For years, just stopped racing. Like kind of put dream deferred as it were. And dream deferred. Dream deferred. That's nice. Yeah. So that is so interesting. 'cause I feel like most people, most runners I've talked to too about COVID, like people like ramped it up, they like did virtual marathons. I didn't do a virtual marathon, I did a virtual half and one of those was enough for me.

Yeah. Um, but people were like, or that's how they found running. 'cause they were like trying to find stuff to do. Yeah. Yeah. Like outside. And so That's so interesting. So then when did you start running again? After COVID? Yeah. So after [00:43:00] COVID 20, in 2021, right before Penny's born, we moved to Fishers officially.

Okay. I teach for one more year in the classroom. Okay. Wasn't quite like, aside from just an occasional jog, I wasn't like invested in like running yet. Yeah. And it wasn't until I started at the DOE and I wasn't like on a full-time teacher schedule of like mm-hmm. Get up at 5:00 AM be done at 4:00 PM come home, be a dad a week.

And I had a little more space in my brain and stress levels that I began to think about. Like, well, what do I wanna do with this time? What do I want to do with like, the I need some high highs again. 'cause like teaching's, teaching's got the best highs. Yeah. Like, it's great. It feels good, it's got really low lows, but the highs are terrific.

And I began running, and running felt hard, and I didn't like how hard running felt. And so I began to think about like, well, I think I've always wanted to do a marathon. And guess I could start trying to think about what that journey towards that looks like. And then I was reading on Reddit, like, how do you, how do people get better to train for?

And someone said, running club. And so I looked up like there's surely not a, a running club in fish. And there's a, there of course was a running [00:44:00] club and Fishers. Yeah. And, uh. I was very terrified. 'cause I don't, I am, I'm, I usually just run by myself. Yeah. I'm very much a solo runner. I've never, I've never in my life up until the last three years had friends who I could work out with.

Yeah. That's interesting. My friend groups are wonderful people, but like, we don't work out together. We don't, up until I went to my first meeting with the Fisher's Running Club and saw people in spandex and I'm wearing like baggy sweatpants, basketball shorts with your Yes. Sweat span. People were like, oh yeah.

It's like, who are all these people? I don't know. And they all know each other. And it was like, it was like the, I felt like the new kid in school. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So what year did you join FRC? Uh, 2022. 2022. 2022. Was Alan the president at the time? No. Peter Kirkwood. Okay. Yeah, I know Peter actually, yes. From another life of mine.

Really? Not through running. Okay. Which is crazy. I need, I told him. At one point I was like, Peter, you need to be on my podcast. And he told me he's not that interesting. And I was like, you are interesting. Peter, Peter Kirkwood saying he's not interesting, is the [00:45:00] silliest thing I've ever heard in my life.

Right? Like, listen, you have him on your podcast, you're not gonna say anything. Yeah. That's fair's. Like, no, he's a big, but he's got so many stories. So many. He's a big reason I got like, I think I, I joined that club, see there go, because my fir my first run, I was there. He immediately sent like, he is for those who dunno, Peter, like, he works, he's such a people person.

Mm-hmm. That's literally his job. Mm-hmm. And he's very good at like connecting and identifying with people pretty quickly and immediately. And like he, he ran that first seven mile loop with me because like, I tried to hang on to, 'cause I didn't know what I was doing. Right. I just, just went out, tried to run with people and tried to run with people and hung out.

And then I hung on for as long as I could. And then I started kind of, you know, just dying. And I was out of breath and my legs were hurting and Peter just casually just like ambled up with me and ran walk and got me back to the. The loop and let me know about the Wednesday night runs. And that was a big part of sort of my, the start of my time with Fisher's Running Club.

'cause at the time, waking up early on a Saturday, I don't enjoy it. Right. Didn't like doing it. Yeah. Yeah. But a pub run on a Wednesday night. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was great. That's more my speed. Yeah. That's more my speed. Yeah. And that's where I made like a [00:46:00] lot of my first sort of friends and began to start thinking about how I would go do my first marathon and what it might be.

'cause I met people, like I literally joined Right. When people are about to do monumental 2022. Okay. The windy one, the windier, the windy Yeah, the windier. Yeah. I got to do that one. Was it It was windy. It was windy. I, you know what, it was my first full marathon after having my second daughter. Yeah. And so my goal was, it was the first marathon I ever did using a coach.

Okay. So my goal was to, you know, be smart, execute on the race plan, but like to just to do it. Yeah. And, um, to kind of prove to myself that I still could do it. Yeah. And um, and so when, whether, and it was my first full. Being part of the board of directors for monumental, I was like, I gotta do the full, I gotta, I've never done that one before.

Yeah. I gotta figure out, you know, what our experience is like, how can we improve, you know, and so, yeah, it was so, it was comically windy, so I didn't, I didn't even go down to watch it yet. Like, I didn't feel that. Yeah, I was gonna say, were you a spectator? No, I, I wasn't that, I didn't feel that comfortable yet.

It took me, it [00:47:00] took me a while just to get used to, I think that was the thing about joining a running club is like, like I'm, I, I'm an athletic, reasonably athletic person, but I didn't know enough about running to feel like I could talk about running in the way that made sense. Yeah, it's funny, right?

Like, like, and so like all these people are talking about their races and all this, their nutrition and all this stuff, and it's like, I have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah. Can we talk about and or Yeah. Can we talk about, I don't even know what that means. Uh, the, the Star Wars show on Disney Plus.

Yep. Okay. Yeah. or talk about of course. Or talk about what TV we're watching. See, I watch me Mandalorian. That was a great one. Yes. And ORs really, really good. Okay. Highly, highly recommended. I might be interested. It's very, it's very intense. Yeah. Okay. A little more prestige television. Okay. Um, uh, there's a Scars Garden, so you know, it's good.

Yeah. It's interesting. I choose my shows based on what I can watch on my Peloton treadmill. Oh, yeah. No, that's not a show. Not that's not a show for, well, also, well, Disney Plus is not on my treadmill. Oh, yet. Okay. All right. So there's Netflix and like. Uh, is there, there's not, there is Hulu. Yes. There's Hulu.

Hulu, Netflix, and then YouTube tv, [00:48:00] which is only certain parts of YouTube, right? So you're like, okay, this is annoying. So did K-Pop Demon Hunters? Is that, do you watch that on I haven't watched it on the treadmill yet, but I've thought about it because I've not sat and watched the whole movie that was this weekend for me.

It's so good. It's so good. I've seen the, you know, the bits and pieces of it, right. So like, get the idea. But no, someone was gonna be a hard time. 'cause I was like, yeah, you know, talking about the fire thing. And they're like, you mean, what's the name of the fire thing? Ah, Gima. Yeah. And they're like, you mean Mima?

And I was like, oh yeah. Like I don't, I like love the music and stuff, but I haven't watched the music in the movies. Like I. I forgot who turned me on. My friend Jen turned me onto the music, and then my daughter, oh, God. Picked it up. My gosh. Nora picked it up from somewhere and was like, we have to watch this.

We have to watch this. We have to watch. And so finally, we watched it this past weekend, and then we had to watch it again on, I was gonna say, we watched it every day for like three weeks, I swear. And then we watched it again on Sunday. Yeah. And she does the choreography for soda pop. Gosh, I just saw, oh my God.

I just saved a tutorial. So maybe you'll have, you'll have a, shit. I don't, I'm not, you do it with, you do it with Nora and I'll do it with Sydnee, and then we'll do a mashup we can [00:49:00] work on. All right. All right. Send it to me. That would be so fun. I love that. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally forget what we were talking about,

This episode is also brought to you by my very own small business athlete bouquets. At Athlete Bouquets, I make gifts for runners think edible arrangements, but all the goodies you would want before or after a race. It is the perfect gift to get a friend who is in the final weeks of training for that fall marathon.

Or it's maybe somebody's birthday. It's great for all occasion or even for yourself. So outside of bouquets, there are mugs, temporary tattoos with some of my most favorite mantras, Christmas ornaments stickers. And so if you use code podcast@athletebouquets.com, you can get 10% off of your order, so visit athlete bouquets.com and celebrate the finish lines and milestones of the people you love. Now back to the show.

Ally Brettnacher: I totally forget what we were talking about, how we got, we were talking, getting towards my first marathon.

Yeah. And I didn't know how to talk about running with people yet. Yeah, right. Yeah. My friend always says like, what do you even talk about with [00:50:00] runners? Like left foot, right foot. I'm like, so many things, actually. So many things. Yeah. A lot of, I ended up signing for, for my first marathon in 23, which was Carmel.

Carmel. Carmel, yeah. Carmel 23 was my first marathon. And, I'm trying to remember like the weather that year, it warmed up. Okay. It wasn't super hot, but it started, it was warm, it got like sixties. Okay. no, that experience was like, that's that first marathon experience was, or training for it was really good.

But it was also like, I met a ton of people who are like standards of the Fisher's running club. Like Meryl, I don't know if he's, I don't think he's ever been named on this podcast. I actually don't know that I, yeah. Meryl, Meryl, uh, runs, has like a sub club within the Fisher's Running Club. Okay. which is called Team Gold.

And it's this amazing coie of like really fast older people. Okay. And they, he does, he's very much an 80 20% runner. Like lots of easy running, taught me how to like, look at my heart rate while running. And he's, the, the, I met him for the first time on my first 16 mile run, because the club introduced [00:51:00] me to him.

Like someone from the, who was the, the person who was answering the, I think it was Sarah Farney was answering the coach, the coaching emails for Fishers Running Club at the time. And so she's like, you should go meet Meryl. And Meryl rolls up and he's a small white man with a little bit of beard and glasses.

Okay. And he's listening to, west Coast gangster rap. Perfect as he rolls out. And it's like, what's up? Let's go. And he's just chatting the whole time and he's just real chill. and he's, he was such a sort of in, helped guide me through all my long runs. He was on my first 20 mile run. Wow. That's nice.

Um, ever and like really helpful. Very encouraging dude. And then I get to my first marathon and, it's one of the most miserable experiences of my life. Sorry, I shouldn't laugh at that. No, we can laugh. We can laugh at we laugh because I get it. No, it was, um, it was, it was, I don't wanna say everything wrong happened, but it was such a, I don't, I don't know.

I'm, I'm still, I've healed from it. But basically like, I started out with a group of people that I knew. Yeah. I had to use the restroom very early. Ugh. I never caught up with them. Oh, that sucks. So there's that. [00:52:00] So that's part one. Um, and was the restroom like. Like it was a short, it was a short rest of it.

Okay. So you just had to pee. I just had to go pee. That's good. Okay. But I, so, because you know, when early on if you're like, yeah, not peeing, then that's a whole nother problem. No. So like, I, I think I'd read like, just get it done as fast as you can get it done. Yeah. So I got it done really early and it was fine.

Okay. So there's that. it, I realized like I ran without headphones and it was a thing of when I joined the club and I meet all these people who were being true to themselves that like, they run without music and that makes 'em happy. And that's like, makes 'em feel more connected Yeah. And helps them be focused.

Yeah. And I'm the exact opposite. And I learned it on that race when I did not have my headphones with me. Oh my gosh, my gosh. I, that I'm someone who needs to have music available. Yeah. Right, right. Like it available. It just, it, I prefer to have it. I don't eat it all the time, but like, I really like having it available.

I didn't have it. So I'm doing my first marathon by myself and I didn't realize, like, I didn't really like mentally prepare for the fact that caramel is a helix where you're gonna run through the start, finish twice. Oh. Super hard. So you get through the half. Mm-hmm. And it's [00:53:00] exciting because it has the roar, the finish and then you have to go back out.

Yeah. And so I go back out and you can look at the Strava for my first one because I'm running these like, I forgot what pace, but it's like, it's all very consistent. And somewhere on the Monan, like there's just, I think probably poor nutrition, maybe not a strong car, enough carb load or just like, Hmm, ands just like it, it dies and it's run.

Walk for 10 miles, woof by myself. No music, nothing. Was it raining that year though? No. Okay. That's good. At least it was just lots of sunlight because there's been some nasty weather. It was just the years, it was lots of sunlight and it was just this emotional struggle. 'cause like I literally wanted to run off the course and never be seen again.

Yeah. Like that's how bad it felt like in just like all of it. And yeah, I had no, I had no doubts about finishing and I think that was the thing when I crossed the finish line and what I will remember positively is Nora came and Nora ran through the finish with me. She hopped over the barrier and we ran together, ran the finish.

Oh's. Pretty cool like that part. I will remember forever. Yeah. but like Sarah, you know, Farney, who's become a coach and a men and like my running big sister. Yeah. Like, was like, you're a [00:54:00] marathoner. And like she recognized that I was just pissed. Yeah. I was mad. She like, you're running. And I was just like, no.

I'm just like, I was ups, I was mad. I was upset because I realized like I didn't, I didn't run it the way I wanted to and it didn't feel the way I wanted it to feel. Right. And like it, like the glory of it wasn't there for me. Mm-hmm. Like, because I just felt like I survived it. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't, like, I didn't come to fight.

I didn't run a marathon. I survived. I survived. I survived a marathon. Yeah. I didn't run it though. Yeah. And that sort of has laid the bed for the last two years of my, of what I've done. Yeah. And changing everything. Yeah. At least running wise. Yeah. So take us down that. Yeah, no, I was so, uh, upset at that experience that that, which I think for a lot of people was like very, you know, that was like your first marathon was very exciting, but no, it left me very unsatisfied.

Yeah. And so that's when I ended up turning to Sarah. Sarah and then Tracy Heirich. Yeah. Because they, they had a coaching business. Mm-hmm. And I was just like, I want to feel successful again. And I did not enjoy how that felt. And so it just started with like, let's find something. There was a race in [00:55:00] Cleveland.

That's it actually attached to the one that Mark Geiers first marathon, the Towpath. Oh, okay. Yeah. There's a, they do a series, they do a trilogy of races. They do a summer one that's a 10 miler in Cleveland. Okay. So it's like, I wanna go back to Cleveland. I wanna run a 10 miler. And they trained me for that.

And it was a great, it was a really positive experience. Learned a little bit more about nutrition, learned a little bit more about like, structured training approaches, realized like, I'm gonna be someone who runs with my music. So I made sure I had that going forward. So like that happened, didn't really know what was gonna happen next.

And I get was gifted a free entry into monumental. That same year, a friend of mine from graduate school lives in an lives in Ohio still. She couldn't go, so she's like, do you want my entry? I'll even pay the transfer fee. Right. Amazing. So like it lands in, it lands in my lap. So it's like, well, let's try and finish the year and right the wrong of Carmel and start doing that.

So they took me through like an actual structured marathon cycle, and I had to learn how to do gels. Mm-hmm. Found gels that worked for me. And which ones do you use? At the time I used Morton's. Yeah. I'm now an SIS guy. Okay. I really like SIS I'm trying to remember if I've ever [00:56:00] tried an SIS gel. They're very liquidy.

Okay. They go down quick. Yeah. That's, I think that's the main thing. Like none of, I don't like any of them. Yeah. If I'm being honest with myself, it's the flavor. Yeah. Like, I don't enjoy any of them. Like, I don't crave, like, there's nothing. Did you try the syrup? Did you try the syrup? I'm going to try the syrup.

Oh yeah. They're really liquidy. And it tastes like, I mean, obviously syrup, it's syrup, syrup. Like, yeah. No, like I'll definitely, like, I'm, I'm open, like I'm not, I'm kind of in between trends. Everybody has. Find what works. Yes. And I found like Morton's, Morton's does work for me. SIS but Morton's is very expensive.

I was gonna say like, like I can't refinance my house for Mor Nutri. For for Morton's job. Yeah. Yeah. They're so expensive. Um, monument my first, my, my monumental marathon was amazing though. Like it was, I'm an amazing day. I love, I've grown to love Indianapolis. Monumental helped me do that. Yeah. I did not always love living here.

The monumental Marathon helped me. Like, we're just gonna have our team take that soundbite and like, use it for our market. Please do. No. Like, it was a big, like No, it did because it was like, oh, I'm running through all these places. I love, 'cause [00:57:00] I used to run on Butler's campus. I used to run like, I'm running through my old neighborhoods.

I'm running by the neighborhoods my students lived in. I am running by the art museum and like, I just, it was a, a terrific. Experience. And it was, the weather was amazing. The weather was amazing in 23. Amazing. Amazing. And I had friends from my, my out of town club I'm also in Mm. Okay. There, and I gotta play host to them.

And I was so happy to do that at the k Fuzzi run club. Yeah, that's a good segue too. Yeah. Because I don't know, I know who K Fuzzi is. Yes. but I don't know, I didn't know that there was a run club associated with that. It is, it is a, a very loosely organized run club. Okay. That sort of started from his, he has a, like a, a live stream that he occasionally does.

Okay. And so people, you know, offer questions and thoughts about the shoes he reviews and things like that. And from there, a Discord server was built. If you're familiar with Discord at all. I, no, just pretend like I have no idea. It's Slack for gamers. Okay. I'll be perfectly honest with you. Right. Like that.

Okay. Here I, that I understand. Yeah. It's Slack for gamers. There's a lot of voice chat in it, but like it's a little discord server, so by subject. And so it's this. [00:58:00] Club of people. Are you a gamer too? I am a gamer. Okay. Didn't know that. Okay. Right. Continue. Lots, lots. So many. I'm a Renaissance man. So many things about me.

So like, it, the club is, a very sort of informal gathering of people from truly around the world. Yeah. Like, I've, like, I know people who are in the club from Taiwan and, cool. As close as like, couple people in the Indiana area, not in Indie, but like all over. Mm-hmm. And it's a, we, we share our training, we share what races we're working on, we're sharing, like, there's now meetups at organized races, and especially majors.

Yeah. That's cool. We like a lot of training, encouragement and a lot of memes, things like that. Mm-hmm. And so, and it's also, but also we talk about like gear and what stuff we're using. Right. Like, hey, do you have, what do you like for this? What do you like for nutrition? Handheld, like water bottles. Yeah.

What handhelds do you like? What Yeah, it is now, it's now this repository of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Or like, like what people, what people are doing. Like I've met people who make their own gels now. I haven't tried that yet. But like, no, there's like, there's, there's a interesting, yeah, no, there's a guy I've met named Rich, and like, he, he makes this like he is, he's working towards West.

He wants to be a western [00:59:00] states Yeah. Qualifier. That's it. Like, that's, that's his big goal. Uhhuh. And he makes his own, gels. Yeah. Okay. And like he's told me, it's like, well, it's actually pretty simple. And it's like, well, okay, cool. Good for you. Yeah. Right. And that's like making your own baby food. I never, I don't, yeah.

I don't get myself to do that. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, no judgment. Yeah. Like that's pretty cool. You can do that. Probably saves a shit ton of money. Yeah, that's exactly it, right? Like, yeah. I've been trying to mentally think through like, is it, is the cost of labor effort like worth it? Right.

Like I've definitely thought about it. Yeah. Interesting. Well, if you do that, please document this. The journey. Yes. No, but like, also like they are the ones who tuned me into like the Des Moines marathon. Okay. Right. 'cause that's like where you're from, kind of. Yeah. No. Um, so like after monumental and like, it was such a positive experience and it was a thing where it's like I knew that short term I wanted to work on my 5K.

And I'm, I'm very much a project based coaching person, so like I go to, like, I've worked, I mostly work with Sarah Farney, I've also worked with Mark Geier. Mark Geier helped me on my 5K. Uh, and that [01:00:00] was a very different wonderful learning tree to sit under her. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just 'cause he's such a racer.

Yes. And that was, that was so neat to learn about, right? Yes. but the Kof Uzi Run Club has a, a secret Santa Oh, and on, on our list of Secret Santa, you put a race that you'd like to do. And so for Secret Santa, someone bought my entry into the Des Moines marathon. There you go. There you go. Geez, that's a nice secret Santa.

It was, it was super nice. Whoa. Yeah, because that's like, gotta be a couple hundred bucks, I think. I think they bought it pretty early, but like, I Okay, but still it's like marathons are not inexpensive. No, no. But like around Christmas day, I got, you know, a package and it had this piece of paper from the official Des Moines marathon.

It was like, that's cool. Here's your entry into the Des Moines Marathon, and here's how you redeem it. That's cool. And so it was, you know, go over to Pam and be like, Hey, we're going to Des Moines in October of 2024, just to let you know. And she's like, oh, okay. Sounds great. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay.

Interesting. And so Des Moines, you already mentioned Iowa being kind of like rolling hills. Yes. And so, like tell people [01:01:00] about the Des Moines marathon. Like the Des Moines course is, if you're doing the full, has a fair bit of elevation, if you're doing the half, it's super flat. Okay. because basically the half you start right by the capitol building and you go out and the first six miles are together and then the half people go south and the full people get a very special course where they get to go up and up and up these hills.

Oh yay. And then they go to Drake University. Okay. If you've ever heard of Drake, I feel like I have heard of Drake. So it's like famous in track and field for their blue track. They have the Drake relays. And so Drake has an agreement with the Des Moines Marathon that they bring in their, their video and sound crew and open up the stadium.

Oh, for spectators. But also everyone runs a 400 on the draw, on the Dr on the Blue Drake track. That's fun. And they, they announce you. Oh, cool. And they, you get a camera spotlight Ooh. As you come on the track. That's fun. Yes. And then you, you out and back from there, back down the hill and then rejoin on the half course.

And the remainder of the half course is like horse [01:02:00] parks and things like that. Okay. Before you head back downtown. Yeah. that, that was my first travel marathon and that was hard with children and my, my spouse. Oh my gosh. Because like, I, I, I was a little under the weather. I definitely didn't carve load as good as I would locally.

Yeah. And we were also traveling, like from my dad's place, a few, like an hour and a half away. Oh my gosh. To Des Moines the night, the day before. Yeah. That's a lot. Right? It's a lot. That's a lot. And then it, it got up to 80 degrees in late October. Ooh. Yeah. Oh, no. See, that's what scares me so much about Marine Corps is late October.

I'm like, please just don't be hot. It's, but I, yeah. I'm heat acclimating right now. Right. Like, right. Whatever. Just, just, just keep, just keep. I'll be ready for that. Yeah. Just be ready for that. Yeah. Like, no, it was, it was 80 degrees by the time I got to mile 18. Yeah. And that was one of the most miserable experiences.

Like, just feeling the energy slowly just draining out of you. Ugh. That's how it feels. Really. Really. And there was some guy who's just like, great job everybody. You're doing great. 'cause he keeps running past us. Yeah. And it's just like, shut the hell up. [01:03:00] I'm dying. Yeah. You're like, fuck you, fuck you. But, uh, no, I'm glad you feel great.

Yeah. No, but, uh, that was, I mean, the thing that, the awesome thing about Des Moines was like my whole family was there, like, you know, my wife and my kids, but also like my dad. Yeah, that's right. And my mom. That's pretty cool. And my sister. Yeah. And like they were all the finish line. They haven't, the last time my family had all been together was my wedding.

Right. That's, yeah. And they had never seen me do like an a, a big athletic thing all over this. Yeah. That's really special. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, there's nothing like it. Like, is there, is there a race for you that you were so happy to have, like Zach or your dad at Oh yeah. Like, uh, well, monumental Zach, the two times I've done the full marathon has brought the girls out Yeah.

To the broader pool area, which is around when you're halfway. Yeah. And it's just so special to see them. Yeah. I mean, it just feels really good to like show, like, look what mommy can do. Mm-hmm. Um, and then I tell him not to come to the finish line 'cause it's just a lot. It's, it's very, with young kids.

Yeah. Um, definitely possible. But like, it's [01:04:00] already asking a lot. Yes. So it's like you do. Yeah. If you want to do that, love it. Right. But he's like, I, no, I'm good. Yeah. So, no, they were both, I didn't know, like that race was fascinating 'cause I didn't know where I was gonna see them. Ooh. Yeah. Because it was a thing where like, so like, you know, my wife and kids, obviously we all came together, we were at the hotel together.

My sister, her son. And my mom came up from Columbia, Missouri. Okay. So it's like a couple hours drive. My mom is very anxious about travel and she almost didn't come. Okay. Yeah. And that was gonna break my heart. Yeah. My sister got her there. She was like, you need to go, you have to come. Yeah. My dad and his partner came up and like, yeah.

I had just had no clue where they're gonna be. Yeah. So like, I'm running this marathon, you know, I'm doing it for me, but it's also like this experience of like, you know, my parents are divorced, like, so like I'm gonna have my family together. Yeah. In a, in a way. Yeah. In a way that you can't have anymore.

Right. Right. And that's okay. Yeah. It, it's better. Totally. But still, that's pretty special. Yeah. So like, and so, and just to see them at the finish line and like, and then my mom telling me to my [01:05:00] face like, I'm so glad I came. Aw. Like, and I'm so proud of you. And like Yeah. And my dad is just, I think thrilled because like he knew that I'd been doing all this stuff.

Yeah. And like, I think he remembers the medal, his triathlon medals and he remembers that we had to go watch him bike around Kirksville. Yeah. Around the state park in Kirksville. Um, but like, just to see it, he was very. Tickled. That's so cool. Mm-hmm. That's so special. And then, so that was 20, that was last year.

Yeah. End of 24. Okay. Yeah. End of 24. And then did you do anything at monumental last year? Did you run that? I did the 5K. The 5K? Yeah. Okay. Is that where you had your 5K pr? My 5K PR is Carmel 2024. Okay. Or before that. Yeah. But I, I got close to it again at, at the Mon that monumental 5K is fast. Yeah. Uh, I have this thing I have to work on with my 5K where I run just a little too hard and I ended up having to pull over and dry Heath, man, I, you asked me at one point too, like what my thoughts were on the 5K and I was like, I don't, I hate it.

I, it's, it's so hard. It's my, it's my favorite. It's my [01:06:00] favorite race because it's hard for everyone Yeah. In a way that no other distance is. Right. Like my sister has done a 5K. Yeah. And like, she's, she's gotten under an hour and like she's got a repaired, like she's got metal and screws in her, like one of her ankles from when she fell once and like.

And, you know, so like, it's, it's hard for her, right? Mm-hmm. And it's, mm-hmm. And it's, it's, I think it's really egalitarian in how hard it can be, right? Like, yeah. I can line up with Mark Geier, or, or you and, and or candy buyers from my club who's this awesome, tenacious woman, and we can all have a great hard day and do something hard together.

Yeah. And it's not gonna be hours apart. Yeah. It's gonna be in to Yeah. Tightened together. I don't think it gets enough glory. Yeah. I, I do believe that because it happens so often, so I think people don't think about it. Right? Yeah. You know, like it's, it's the go-to charity race, right? And like, I think that's great because it is accessible for everybody, right?

But I think it's, it's such a unique distance in that like, there's no foreplay to it. [01:07:00] There's no, there's no Can you just die immediate? You just go, you're just gonna go. Like, you're just Michelle Geer, one of Michelle Geer favorite. Is the 5K we, we share, we share a deep appreciation. Okay. Well, you two, you know, to each their own to MAs masochists.

I'm like, I, I tried to go, uh, I just went as fast as I was able to at the time. Yeah. This year at the monumental, the monumental mile. Yes. Which is now has the Indianapolis 5K. Yes. And so I did that. I can't remember. I, I was very happy in that. I think I did sub eight minute miles. That's amazing. And I was like, I'll feel so great about that.

Yeah. Um, but I don't know that I have the guts to work to PR my 5K. It's so fast. It's, it's hard. It's, it's, it's, it's a different kind of hard, the training's a different kind of hard Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, it's, you're not. You can do about the same amount of mileage, just distributed differently. And then the workouts are harder.

Right. Right. They're so much harder. Yeah. I but it, I don't, I like it because when you're done, you take, you know, five deep ex inhales, [01:08:00] exhales and then dry. Hes you're or dry heaves, and then you're back, you're kind of back to stasis. Yeah. You're back to normal. Yeah. Like you're not destroyed for a week.

Yeah. You can, you can start running again. You can like, no, I, I, I, I also think it's fun. 'cause like I think a thing that I didn't connect with when I was younger is that I am a very competitive person. Yeah. And I didn't know how to manage that feeling for a really long time until this part of my life now.

Mm-hmm. Where like, I am racing more often and like, how do I let that part of myself out in a way that's healthy. Mm-hmm. And not mean or mean-spirited, but instead just like, I'm competitive, I'm competing with myself, I'm fictionally competing with other people around me who don't know that Yeah, totally.

Totally. Right. In 5K are a really good place to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And so, your, is your, your PR is a 20 20 18. 18. Another eight in there. Yes, there is course. Of course. Yeah. So do you have goals to break that 20? I have to, yeah. Yeah. It's so close. I have to, it's so close. But get so far. I mean, 20 seconds into 5K is [01:09:00] eternity.

That's an eternity. Yeah. It's, it's part of my longer project goals is I need, there's a, there's a bunch of races I wanna get under certain times for Yeah. As like, I would eventually, like someday, this is not a next year predict spoiler or anything. Like, I want to eventually be able to qualify for a major.

Yeah. And I'm 37 and a dude, and that means I have to basically counting for buffers, I basically gotta run a 2 55. I gotta run a three, I gotta run sub three. I'm not there. I'm nowhere near there yet. Yeah. But like my 5K is. The closest. Yeah. So like getting under 20 Yeah. Is one of the markers getting under like a sub 40, like a 38, 10 K.

Yeah. Jesus. And then a, a 1 28 or lower half. Whew. Those are kind of like the, the markers of like, are you, can you go sub go do that. Go sub three. Jesus. So I have, I have my work cut out for me in the future. Um, so fun though, to have stuff to go chase. It is fun to have things to go chase. Yeah. Yeah. I like to say that I'm chasing my best, so Yeah.

I wanna qualify for Boston. [01:10:00] Yeah. You know, and if I don't, that'll suck. I'll be pissed. But, you know, at the same time, I'll still be running the fastest I've ever run in my life. Right. So that's kind of cool. Like, I just dunno how much longer I have. Like that's, I know what no one does, right. But like, I feel very, feel very aware of it.

Right. Like, I'm very in touch with like, with like, I don't, no one knows how much I'm like, I feel and I just feel it very tangibly. Like there, there, there will be a time when I can't do this. Yeah. So like, and like, and, and, and I go retire to the trails and I'll be happy about that. Right. 'cause I do like trail running.

Yeah. But it's just like, it's like I don't how much, how much time do I have? Right? Yeah. Uh, and so this year too, you did an ultra. I did. And let's talk about April of this year. Yeah. 'cause you trained to do the caramel again. Yes. 2025. So like all the bitterness of car, I do caramel 25 because of the bitterness of caramel 23.

The bad taste it left in my puff. Oh yeah. Was like the seeds that Yeah. Began planting a lot of this. Right. And a lot of people from the K Fuzzi run club were gonna come into town for caramel. Okay. And so I decided like I want to go be [01:11:00] with them, I wanna run, I want, and I wanted to see if I could run Carmel an hour faster than I ran it the first time, which was, and so in 23 versus 25.

So it's like I ran a 4 28 Yeah. My, my first marathon in Carmel. Yeah. And so like I connected with Sarah again. She really helped me get into great shape and I felt like it was the most. I've never had like an a race before where like I just feel like I'm all in. Yeah. Like all like my emo like emotionally and mentally and physically.

Yeah. I am just all in and I get ready for caramel and then it doesn't happen. Yeah. I can still feel my body. Right. Okay. So tell people how you, how I found out. How you found out. Yeah. Uh, there's a, there's a, a group of us who get together on Sundays to run, and go get coffee afterwards. Okay. And that chat popped off about 5:00 AM Yeah.

That caramel was canceled. And so like, I'm getting out to have my bagel for the morning and make my cup of coffee, do your thing, make my cup of coffee before the race. And then like, I just find out and I'm just like, I'm sitting there, I'm sitting there on my [01:12:00] couch and I'm sitting there thinking about my friend Ben, who came up from Oklahoma City to run.

And I'm thinking of my friend's son who came from Cincinnati to run the half. And I'm thinking of the fact that like we all made matching bracelets for my friend who was chasing a sub three who couldn't come to Carmel. And like was going to be ready to cheer us 'cause he is injured. Yeah. And he was cheering us on from Baltimore and I'm just like, it's everything just falling apart.

Oh yeah. All of a sudden it's just like having everything laid out and having this thing I'd been like thinking about and daydreaming about and building playlists about and just so much it had consumed me. Yeah. And then to not be able to do it and like, and, and then to have all of these feelings and, and oh, there's nowhere to go with it.

And like, it, Pam was like, my wife is awesome. I, I'm so lucky because like, I'm gonna, she's like, I'm gonna go run 20 miles on the Monan. She's like, are you sure? Are you sure that's the thing you need to do? Yeah. And she really was able to like, sort of talk me down and like, it's like it's okay that you feel these way.

Yeah. This way. Yeah. It's okay to have these [01:13:00] feelings that's not going to help you. Right. Like really, really ask yourself, like, is this going to help you feel better? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I went to the Monan for a second before changing my mind and ran a few miles with my friend Dan. That was good enough.

Yeah. For, well, not good enough, but it was, but it was just like, okay, that's what I needed. I didn't need, I didn't Yeah. So that I was already signed up for the full mo because I had been helping with it for the past couple years. Yeah. Okay. Um, I crew, I crewed it in 23. I biked the whole thing for Fisher's Running Club.

It was a, an amazing experience. It was very funny. In 23, I was like, I'll never do that. Yeah. Right. All the things you say you'll never do. Yeah. And then mm-hmm. Your, your mind changes. And then in 24, I helped run somebody in for like 13 miles. Okay. Uh, Tammy Ante. Okay. Who's one of the people in my club going for a hundred miles.

She's awesome. She's a rock star. Um, and then I had signed up for a, it was a, it was a, an entry from a friend of mine from the club and he gave it to me 'cause he wasn't gonna make it. And so we got transferred over. And so I began thinking about it and it was just like, I have all of this fitness and, [01:14:00] and just I need to do something with it still, and I wanna do something with it.

I don't wanna wait. Yeah. And it's like, well, and I began thinking like, what would the full mode look like? And so I began to think like, can I run a 50 K faster than my first marathon? And that, and I asked Sarah that at the time, and I paid her to extend my, extend the block a little bit for me. And it's like, can, like, can we try this?

And she's like, yeah, let's go. Let's go. Let's, let's fucking go. Yeah. Hell yeah. And then, so for people who aren't local, who haven't heard us talk about the full MO on this podcast, just so they know. Yeah. So the, the full MO is a 50 kilometer race, so 31.1 ish miles. Uh, it is point to point, it is the entire currently paved length of the Monan Trail, which is a former rail line.

Mm-hmm. that in, that's in the central Indiana area. Yeah. It's like a staple for all of us to run. Yes. I mean, everybody's heard about it. Who's ever listened? I mean, you know, fisher's people are very, we're nickel, we're nickel plate people, I suppose. Yeah, that's right. You are. And we're, I've, I've ran the entire nickel plate now and that's been, that's been a delight.

But like [01:15:00] No, it was, it was very, it was a beautiful experience and it was, it was great. And I basically rolled over all the kit. I was gonna wear a caramel, I made it even a spec, I made a special singlet. I didn't get to print it in time, which made really sad. Oh, that sucks. Yeah. I had my, my friend's an artist and she, she made me a train livery.

Okay. Like, which, like the paint, like the lettering and the kind of lettering you might see on the side of a train. Oh, okay. Okay. And it was gonna see MDG 88. 88. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. So did you get it printed now and you have it, or you No, it's, I'm building a shadow box for this event. but in the lead up to it, I just carmel that, that bad marathon, that bad first marathon was like, the good was the, the soil.

Yeah. For where I'm at right now. And I, and I knew that, yeah. Even if I didn't get to express it yet. And so. For the Carmel Marathon. They were really great. And it's like, you can come collect your medal after you can run a virtual race. Yeah. They didn't have the option. They didn't have an ability to track it, but they're like, if you wanna come collect your medal, you can.

Yeah. Yeah. And so I decided it was like, I still want to earn my medal. And so [01:16:00] I got, had him put it in a bag. So Tom from Athletic Annex put it in a bag and I called up TJ Daley and I was like, TJ, I need you to hold onto this until I finish the full Mo. That's so cool. I love it so much. 'cause I'm going to, I'm gonna do both.

Yeah. In my brain. And so I raced a marathon during the full Mo. I raced the marathon. I was gonna run during the full mo, which, you know, is a very different experience than running Uhhuh car where there's like a crowd and there's other people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I was alone for most of it. Yeah. Wild. It was, it was awesome.

And you hit a marathon pr I did. In that race. And then you ran it faster than you ran? Yes. No, that was, that was, that was hilarious because it was like crazy. I hit the wall at 20. And I could feel the legs starting to peel off. Yeah. 'cause I wasn't pacing, I mean, I was, I was running a marathon. Yeah. I was running a marathon effort for that day and that heat and all that stuff.

Oh my gosh. I can't. And, uh, Tre Tra Harris, my club and Garrett Enting, they, they picked me up from the Fishers aid station [01:17:00] that they had at the Monan Community Center, and they were gonna run me in the rest of the way, and I made the like, and I was on pace to like real, a really aggressive 50 K time. Yeah.

And then, but I could tell pretty early, like I was losing some steam and I was like, okay, we're gonna get to the marathon marker on my watch, and then we're gonna adjust from there. Yeah. And then we're gonna see how this goes. No. So like in the marathon marker for me, like on my watch was past half leader on the Monan, but before where I was before.

Where you were Yeah. Because I was at 27. Yes. So basically like I keeled over, like, I, I got there keeled over a bench for like a second called Sarah Farney to let her know I did it. Yeah. And then I was gonna jog the rest day. Yeah. And so then you, where you caught me, it was like, I'm, I'm jogging the rest.

And just party pacing it in. And I, I get to the, I get to the finish and TJ had both of the medals ready and he, he put both on me. Like, I'm still get teary by thinking about it. 'cause it, he put, it's the funny thing of like, he put something heavy on my neck and I felt like a, a weight was finally lifted off my back.

Yeah. That's weird. But yes. Yeah. Yeah. [01:18:00] Like I'd finally kind of gotten rid of like, that, that feeling like I, I, I, I'd more than survived that. Right, right. You're like, look how far I've come. Yes, yes, yes. It's the best feeling. It is the best feeling and just being really grateful for everyone who helped me get the job.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, okay, so like Natty, how do you top that? I, it's, it's, honestly, it's just giving myself the space to not have to top that, that is. Really wise, it's, I mean, if you, like, my summer training's been It's true. Because you don't have to No. My summer training's been very relaxed and kind of all over the place.

Yeah. And like, I think I was, at a certain point I was trying to like work on my 5K again and I realized like I'm just not emotionally there yet. Yeah. I don't want to, I don't, and I don't, I don't need to, like, I'm starting to find, I am now in August, I'm starting to finally kind of get an itch of things I want to go work on and do.

Yeah, yeah. Do again, but like, I, I think it was realizing like that took so much out of me. Right. Emotionally. Yeah. That like, it's a lot. And also just like, I've had lots of other life stuff happen in the summer, so it's like just, I, I can't, I can't do that right now. And that's okay. Yeah. It's totally fine.

It's, [01:19:00] it's okay to scale back and adjust and like listen to what you, you know, you need globally instead of just chasing numbers all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really good place to talk about mental Yes. The mental side of running. Yes. And like mental health in general. Yes. Because. S Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Talk about like mentally taxing too, just like going through all that. Yeah. Putting all that on yourself, those goals. Yeah. And then being able to be like, okay, now what? But let tell people about kind of your, just your story and your relationship with your own mental health. Yeah. Uh, so I, I am, I manage, variety of like, anxiety and depression.

and that's, that's just going to be my life. Yeah. And that's just a part of it. I didn't, I didn't understand it for a really, really, really long time. Like, and I, I'm still learning about it. Um, right. Like it's, and it's, you know, some of it's like I fit, I've, at the time, I fit the tortured artist motif when I was, you know, performing, but like in college, I got very close to completing a suicide attempt.

I thankfully did not very grateful. I didn't, [01:20:00] but that was the slow start of getting assistance and help. Yeah. And that began with like, meeting my first therapist for the first time. Mm-hmm. And like working through the process of like finding therapists that are helpful and have the right tools to provide to you and that meaningful time.

Yeah. And like that. Becoming sort of part of like how to address, you know, who you are and deeper understanding. And so for me that was like, I'm a very sensitive person. I'm very, I feel my feelings very deeply. My, my highs are high. I, I sore with eagles and I still there with snakes, like's. That's my, that's, I'm a very, you know, hot blooded, I feel my feelings a lot.

Yeah. And so how do you manage those feelings? And then, so like that was, you know, that's the ongoing work of like therapy and the things I've learned in therapy. Uh, and then at a certain point, actually after my first geist, like realizing I needed, cause I deal, I, I would have a stress response of suicidal ideation.

Like, I don't actually want to do anything. Like, I wanna make this abbu and also this is my story. I wanna make that abundantly clear. Like everyone else has their own story with this. Yeah. Right. This [01:21:00] is just mine. Right. So like my stress response would be like, just, ima just very bad imagery. Right. And like, how do you, like what are the tools to deal with that?

Yeah. One of the tools that end up helping me. And get to a better spot was like medication. So that was something I had to, yeah. I took on, I, I found a medication. It worked for me. It helped like change where the basement lives, right. So I could then apply more of those tools. Mm-hmm. the funniest thing I have found with running though, and like fitness, like fitness globally is helpful.

I have not found running to be a, like the act of going on a run to be very therapeutic for me. Yeah. It does not do much. Like if I am in a low spot and I go for a run, I'm just running in a low spot. Like, it's, it's the like, it's like, I know, I know for some people, like running is this very transformative and for them it's like, it's, it's the, it's cheaper than therapy.

And it's like, I'm so happy for you. Right. That's nice for you. That's nice. Like, that's not me. Yeah. Like the only, the only therapeutic running for me is I have to go sprint up a hill. Yeah. And I can't do that every day. And that's not [01:22:00] good for me to do that every day. Yeah. So it's, instead it's like, am I managing my choices well?

Am I eating all right? What little sleep am I getting? Is it quality? Like right. Am I, am I surrounded by people I know who care about me and that Yes. Am I, I think the big thing I've been working on is just like telling people what I need. Gosh. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's hard. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

Like I'm a reforming people pleaser, so same, same. It's, I relate to a lot of what you said. I deal with. I've really dealt, I've probably dealt with anxiety my entire life. Yeah. Looking back. But I've really worked on managing it better in my adult years. Yes. And starting really with becoming a mom. Yes.

Right. And so, yeah. So I, you know, I relate a lot to that. And running is therapeutic for me. That's right. But it does not replace my therapist. Right. Like, not even close. No. Like I, right. It's like, but it is one of the tools in the toolbox that I use. Yes. Yeah. That's, that's, that's, that's I think been the big thing is like it's one tool.

Right. It's key I think for me, and I think for [01:23:00] me, there's something about competition and exploring that in a healthy way that's been good for me. Yep. And very healing for me. Yeah. Uh, that's why I think I like five Ks in shorter distances. Mm-hmm. Is there's lots of opportunities to race and Yeah. Just challenge yourself positively in that way.

Yes. And it's actually something I think, you know, like something that's like I've learned from running that's been helpful is like. Mark Geier talks about process goals a lot. I dunno if he ever talked about it on his podcast. I don't think he did. No. So, like with his runners, and something I've brought when I, when I work with Sarah is like, goals that are part of the process.

Things that you can always control in the moment. Yeah. Like, they're, like you, you won't always run a pr you never will. Like, but like you can set a goal about your nutrition. You can set a goal about like, I wanna smile three times during the race. I want to Yeah. Right. Like, I want to pass this many people and make an effort.

Right. And count those things. And or if I have a negative thought, I want to use this, this phrasing or this word or this, this tool I have. Yeah. Right. And like his is, you know, that was something I don't know if I've ever told him explicitly. Mark. Thank you. Yeah. Um, that, like, I, I've pulled into my life [01:24:00] that's really nailing down like what you can control and hold onto that.

Right. And like always making that a part of what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. That's really well said. Thank you. I like that stuff. I'm gonna use it too. Yeah. So, yeah, no, it, I, it's like every, every goal like, you know, I have, I have still have time goals, but there's also goals I wanna like. I raced, uh, the Hamilton County Humane Wolf Stock 5K Oh fun.

Hamilton County Humane. Yeah. Yeah. and my process goal was like, I want to be steady and I only wanna make a move on someone when I wanna make a move on. Mm-hmm. So, like, I was racing and it wasn't, it wasn't not a pr day. That's, did you have Seamus, how do you say your dog's name? Seamus. Seamus. Not Seamus.

Uh, no, it's alright. I use Seamus, use a very funny spelling for his name. Okay. No, it was too hot for him. Okay. Okay. No, that's fair. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Seamus is my healer. for those, for those who don't know, he's, he's my healer. Uh, like literally That's his breed or? Yeah, he's healer. Border Col. Okay. Yeah. Or he is like, or he just heals my soul because a little bit of that, but he is, he is 1000% cattle dog.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So he has a work dog with an engine that can go forever. yeah. He's Louie and Bingo, as you know. Yeah. Blue. Yeah, [01:25:00] very much so. Yeah. a little more border colly than healer. Than heal like, but he's definitely got the healer energy because he doesn't look like, yeah, no, no. You see the healer come out in how he acts.

Okay, got it. Yeah. Like he's got that personality. He's a constant work dog. What's the furthest that he's run with you? Six or seven miles. Okay. I think we can go further. Yeah. How old is he? Uh, one. Oh, I got him as puppy. Oh, I got him from the Hamilton County Humane. Yeah. So, uh, before my wife ever knew me, there was our first dog that was like, they, they saved each other.

And then I entered the picture and was stepdad. And then January 24, Kaya sadly passed. And that was, you know, you know, our hearts were broken. Yes. My heart cracked open because like, I didn't raised with animals my whole life, but I wasn't an animal person. Yeah. And then the day Kaya passed, like was the day I realized like I could fall in love with a, an animal.

Yeah. And I hadn't realized it. 'cause it was one of the, so that kind of love that like, it's not, it doesn't smack you in the face. It's, it's in the absence you suddenly realize that, right. Like, oh my gosh, you've loved this person your whole life, or as long their whole life. Yeah. And so that, you know, [01:26:00] we, we took time and then our daughters were like, we want a puppy.

I know my, my girls want a puppy now. Right. But we're very, I mean. I, I think it's fine. You know, however you wanna do it. We're very, we're gonna rescue. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna go to Humane Society. That's, that's always been our mo Yeah. And they, Pam, that Workday saw that there were puppies at the Hamilton County Humane Society, and it was just like, so we have to go now.

And so we didn't do any breed research. There was no, there was no planning for this. Yeah. It was just like, oh, we brought home this puppy. Wow. And we brought him a work dog and we were not, it was, that was quite an adjustment. And, but it's also like, well, if you're a work dog, you can run, you can run with me.

Yeah. I can train you to run with me. Yeah, I can. And so he's, he's my, he is, if I truly want an easy day, he's my easy day boy, that's so great. 'cause he doesn't want it. Like he'll sprint after things. Yeah. But not while running. Not while running. That's how my dog, well my dog Doug is now 11. Oh, we call him designer Doug because he's a golden noodle.

Yes. And, um, because of my allergies, which I don't know if people can hear in my voice, but, we have to have a dog that doesn't really shed. And [01:27:00] so that's how he got. You know, designer Doug, but he's slowed down. Obviously he's 11 now, but, uh, and his paw pads are more sensitive. Mm-hmm. And so I got him these little booties that actually Rachel Eey from Fisher's Nice.

Recommended. Yes. But he hates them. So, anyway, so he doesn't run with me as much as he used to, but he at one point got up to 10 miles with me. That's awesome. Mm-hmm. He absolutely could. He's just out of practice right now, right? Yeah, through the summer. But like the winter, we, like, we've done six or seven miles, like I've done most of town run with him, town run trail.

Okay. Which is mostly mountain biking, but like, he is such a, he's so well equipped for that kind of environment. Like, 'cause is sniffing and constantly scouring for things. Yeah. Now he's, he's just this hyper, like, I got to see him this morning and spend time with him this morning and he's just, he's my energetic prince.

Like, yeah. I'm, you know. My wife, my two daughters, but he's my, he's my son. Oh, Seamus. He should come. You've raised the monumental mile. Do the dog. Yes. No, I, I wanted to, I was out of town. I was out of town this year. Yeah. Okay. So next year. Next year. No, 10000%. That's what we're doing. Yeah. can you believe that it's time to ask [01:28:00] then end of the podcast questions?

I can, but it's, it's actually more than time. 'cause we are, I was like, 'cause we've gone over, we've, we've wandered. It's all good. Yeah. The two questions I ask everyone, as you know of course, are, uh, what's your favorite running mantra and or song? Okay. Uh, mantra is, let's fucking go. Mm-hmm. I will yell that to myself in the middle of a race.

And, and especially if I'm by myself and I just wanna keep going. Yeah. I, I don't know. I just, ever since I learned it, I even have it as a friendship race. Like, oh, I love it. LFG it reminds me of Vince Otten too. 'cause Vince loves that. And I made stickers. I should have brought you lfg. The other, the other mantra would be, uh, stand down.

I've got this. Oh, I, it part of a, it's part of a therapy exercise I learned, right? I use it during a race with like, you basically do the five senses, like name five things, say out loud, five things you can see four things. You hear three things, you, um, smell two things. You taste one thing you feel, and that gets you kind of dialed into your senses.

Oh. And then you say, stand down. I've got this. Because it's basically telling the amygdala, like, relax, oh, you're in charge. So I, I will do that in the middle of a hard run. Okay. Because if I [01:29:00] can, one, if I can talk out loud, it means I'm not working. Like I, I have enough control going on. Right? Yeah. Right. Uh, so God, that's so, that's so hard.

I know. It's hard. Hard. That's hard. I think the one that's, stood with me with the test of time is probably walk by Foo fighters. Okay. You ever heard it? I'm sure I have. you gonna sing it for me? Uh, I, I just like, there's a bridge to the final chorus that's like, it just picks up an intensity. 'cause it's about like, I don't know, like it's about so many things.

It's about life, but it's about like, yeah. It's like, it just keeps repeating with, and it's Dave girl just yelling. I never want to die. And like, it's just like, it's just full of like light. I'm run, I'm running through the fire. I never want to die. And like, it's just that, like, it makes me feel on fire in a wonderful way.

Yeah. While I'm running. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Have you read his book? It's really good. I have not. I hear it's really, I, I'm gonna listen to the audio. I'm not even a Dave Grohl. I mean, I am a da. I like him. Yeah. But I'm not like a huge Foo Fighters person. But I just heard the book was really good. Yeah.

And I listened to it and it was really good. I need to listen to it. Yeah. It's on my list. I would recommend that. So, and [01:30:00] then what's your next finish line or milestone? So like, there are races I'm signed up for, like, I'm, I'm a geist half ambassador. Mm-hmm. So I will be ready. The geist half. Hmm. What's the date on that this year?

Uh, that is September 13th. Okay. It should come out before that maybe? Yes. Maybe. I believe it's, yeah. My hope, I'm trying to visualize my calendar, but I'd say the, the next really big thing I'm working towards is like, I've not run the monumental half. Okay. I've, I I did the Monumental fool in 23. Yeah. The five KI need, I need that.

Oh yeah. I need that silver medal. You do? I do. Uh, so the monumental half is probably the next thing and I Okay. I'd love to pr my half. Here we go and get as, get as fast as I can. What would that be? Right now my half is a 1 36. Okay. So I'm, I'm working towards the, the low end of one 30. Yeah. Amazing. If, if I had a good day and it works out.

Oh, amazing. I'm registered for the half as well. Awesome. Even though I have a marathon two weeks before, that's, I mean, you fun run it, but here's the reason Yeah. Is because we introduced our legacy program. That's right. You wanna maintain your, and so I wanna get my medal. So you get, or not a medal, um, a medallion.

Yeah. So we have this new legacy program, so if you've done five or more. Of any of the, [01:31:00] of any of the race distances, you get a medallion. So I'm like, well, and you have to do a race in order to get it. Yes. You can't just be like, oh, I've done that. No. So then I'm like, oh man, now I'm gonna sign up. No, I, because I love, I love our race, but I also, I volunteer a lot.

Um, and last year did an event around it and so yeah. But I'm, it'll be fun. No, I definitely, like, I've wanted to do the half I hear it's fast and then it's awesome. Like, and it's just the, the one distance I'm monumental I haven't done yet. Yeah. Great. And like I want to have that experience. Perfect. Yeah.

Yeah. We'll see you there. I'll see you there. Yeah. cool. Well, and then big milestones. How long have you and Pam been married? 10 years this November. There we go. How did I even know? Buckle that milestone. 10, 13 years. Boom. 13 years together. This past July. okay. 10 years in November. 10 years in, what will you do?

Run them by half. Run the monument. Half is that weekend? No, no, that's November 21st, thank goodness. Okay. It's always Thanksgiving, weekends. Okay. I think probably we're gonna look at either. Essentially go like re redoing our honeymoon again, which was, we went to Hawking Hills. Okay. I don't know what that is in Ohio.

Yeah. [01:32:00] Oh my gosh. It's a beautiful southeast corner of Ohio. Oh yeah. No idea. Like getting like rolling hills and forestry and like get a cabin and be away from our children and Yeah. That would be so fun. Yeah. So I mean, I, we still got a nail down the specifics of that, but like, I think that's probably it.

Yeah. And a really amazing dinner and just, yeah. I think I'm really lucky to have someone like I just like spending time with and Right. Yeah. She's, she's not a, we run once a year together. Oh, well that's cool. Not a race or anything, just, just around Holland Park. Yeah. She's really into weight lifting.

She's a really, she's very strong. She's very athletic, but doesn't, does no interest in running Zero. Yeah. It's kind of like my husband does F 45. Okay. And so he's into that and, but I am trying to work on him to get him kind of back and he'll do shorter stuff. Um, like family fun run stuff we've done.

But I'm like, come on, just like one more marathon because he did a marathon with me when we were dating. That's awesome. Which is really awesome. There is no world where she will ever do that. And that's, I I think it's, that's okay. No, it's good. I mean, like, I think our big thing is just like we, we make sure we work hard to [01:33:00] make sure we both have time.

Right. To do the things that you love. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So for her right now, that's writing. So like she takes, she'll take a few hours at a time and work on something she's writing. Yeah. That's cool. And uh, and I'll take the girls somewhere. So, yeah. Nice. Well, we'll have to get our girls together.

Absolutely. So I'm planning on bringing them to prayer on fire. Great. 'cause there might be some chalk art situations. Yes. I wanna make bracelets with, oh my gosh. Logan's wife, Brie I wanna make and 'cause she's like, oh, we should learn how to make those. And I'm like, well, yeah, I have a 10,000 rubber bands, we can make bracelets all day.

Yeah. So I'm excited for that, to get that experience. Yes. Between soccer games, between soccer games, are they, are they big soccer players? Um, I wouldn't say big. They do Carmel Dad's club. Okay. So we've like avoided the idea of going to travel. No, so far. Okay. I, I just really, I really wanna keep the girls in a place where they're trying stuff Yes.

Finding stuff they love versus, getting serious about any one thing. Yes. But it is Carmel over here and we're serious about our youth sports, so I mean Fishers as well. Yeah. Um, though [01:34:00] my oldest is becoming very much a dancer and Oh. So we're gonna go through our first cycle of like dancing for a program.

Cool. Okay. Starting this week actually. So mine just joined the Indianapolis Children's Choir. Nicely done. So, which is intense. That's what I hear. and so, yeah, it'll be interesting. She loves it, wanted to do it. I, she loves music. I'm like, cool. We'll see how this goes. Yeah. So it's their 40th year as the ICC and so they're doing next summer, a trip to Carnegie Hall in New York.

Okay. All right. So if that's not Caramel kid for you, I don't know what is No, no Travel league, but we're gonna, but we're gonna go to Carnegie Hall. We're gonna go to Carnegie. Like, they tell her that first day, gonna new day, gonna, she's like New York City. She goes, mom, we can do this. And I was like, oh God, I've ruined you for everything because, you know, see, she'll perform at the shot center.

Yeah. So we're gonna, we're gonna work our way up. I mean, yeah. Jesus. I just want know her to have like one, like she, she's done YMCA sports and that's a really great way to sample stuff. Oh my gosh. But like, 'cause there's, they're not terribly [01:35:00] competitive, but like, I want her to have an arc experience, right.

Like, like, you know, if through a sports season or like in this case, like you're gonna start a production and get to Right. That's great. Get to the end. Yeah. So cool. Oh, thanks for doing this, max. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It was so much fun. Thank you for having me. I learned so much about you YouTube that I didn't even know, which is the point, I guess, right?

Yeah. Well, and thanks to everybody who's listened. Yes. Maybe, maybe even watch, I don't know. Hi there, a couple people. Hey. Hey mom. My mom doesn't watch it. She doesn't probably know how, but that's fine. That's sad. Oh, and uh, happy running. Happy running. Hooray. Hooray.

if you enjoyed this episode of Finish Lines and Milestones from Sandy Boy Productions. Please share with a friend rate review that really helps others find the show. Also, a great way to support would be to support sponsors like Previnex And if you don't already follow me on the internet, I'm Allie, A-L-L-Y-T, Brett, B-R-E-T-T. That's @allytbrett_runs. Can't wait to share another story with you next week. Thanks for listening. Bye [01:36:00] bye. Bye. Goodbye.