Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 147: Gretchen Hercamp - Two Brain Surgeries and 1,000 Miles

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Guest: Gretchen Hercamp @greatchgoes2hercamp⁠

Show Notes:

Gretchen Hercamp⁠ and I met at the Carmel Marathon expo last year in Carmel, IN. She was with her twin sister, Bridgett. Little did I know what Gretchen had been through.

During this episode, sponsored by ⁠Amazfit⁠ and ⁠Relay Active⁠, we talk about:

• Two brain surgeries in two years and three marathons 

• How she discovered she had a brain tumor in the first place

• Her twin sister, Bridgett

• How running is peppered throughout her life starting in high school

• Running the Indy Mini for the first time in 2014 but not running another half marathon until after her son was born in 2019

• Running her first marathon at Monumental in 2023 only nine months after her first brain surgery 

• Her Carlton Ray story (Carlton is the Founder of the Indianapolis Monumental Marathon)

• Using running as a way to work through her childhood trauma 

• Discovering the regrowth of her tumor 

• Running the “Indianapolis Triple Crown” after her second brain surgery 

• Growing up poor 

• Why the Monroe County YMCA Corporate Challenge is so significant to her

• Plans for 2026

Sponsor Details:

• ⁠Amazfit ⁠- Use ALLYB for 10% off your order
• ⁠Relay Active⁠ - Use MILESTONES for 15% off your order

This is a ⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠ podcast.

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

Ally Brettnacher: Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast for everyday runners. I'm your host, Ally Brettnacher and if you run. You're a runner and every runner has a story. Join me each week as I share these stories and we celebrate finish lines and milestones together. This week's episode is brought to you by Amazfit Amazfit is a global smart wearable brand that designs smart watches Fitness trackers and health technology for active lifestyles If you follow me on Instagram you might've seen this really funny video of a guy trying to charge his Garmin watch and he was like really carefully plugging it in and not moving just to make sure he could get it just right so it would charge That was me so relatable before I got my a amazed fit Balance Two watch [00:01:00] which sits on the charger so easy. No problems. So that was my commercial for Amazfit If you also struggle with charging your smartwatch, you should check out Amazfit

They have a wide variety of products and they have a price point that really can't be beat. The balance two watch that I use is 2 99, which for something with a similar functionality from another brand might be two or three times that much, and not only is it easy to charge, but the battery life lasts for 21 days.

So if you wanna check out Amazfit you can go to amma fit.com That's A-M-A-Z-F-I t.com and you can use Code Ally B for 10 off your order Thank you Amaz fit for supporting this podcast.

Before we get into this week's guest, I do want to point out that if you're listening to this show when it comes out on February 13th, tomorrow, Valentine's Day, February 14th is the first of the three milers series for the 500 Festival Indianapolis Mini Marathon.

So if you're local to [00:02:00] Indianapolis and you're starting up your training, these races are a great way to stick with your training and practice in a race environment. So the three miler is two 14. Then we have the six miler on March 7th and the 10 miler is on April 11th.

So hopefully I'll see you tomorrow.

All right, and now this week's guest, actually, her first

half marathon was the mini marathon. This week's guest is Gretchen Herc Camp. I met Gretchen and her twin sister Bridget last year at the Carmel Marathon Expo. And man, I had no idea what she had been through at that point in her life. And what she continues to do after what she's been through

It is absolutely amazing.

this woman has had two brain surgeries, and last year, 2025, she ran a thousand miles. mic drop at that. You gotta hear her story because I know that you're gonna be very inspired by Gretchen, her camp. Enjoy.

Gretchen Hercamp. Welcome.

Gretchen Hercamp: Thank you for having me.

Ally Brettnacher: I think it's so funny that you felt like your [00:03:00] story wasn't worthy of being on a podcast. Your story is insane.

Gretchen Hercamp: It, it's insane, but I think it's like when it happens in like your real life and you're kind of almost like desensitized to it, like saying it out loud definitely feels. Weird, but, but yeah, it's like, oh no, I've had two brain surgeries.

I had two brain surgeries in less than two years, and then ran two marathons or sorry, three marathons in the span of the two years following each of those surgeries.

Ally Brettnacher: just like, yeah.

And you say that in a sentence and you're like, I'm sorry. What? And when I had first met you, I think I met you and Bridget, your twin at Carmel for the first time. Maybe when I was at my

Gretchen Hercamp: athletic Yeah. At the expo. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Yeah. And I remember just meeting you, chatting with you. I, I'm pretty sure that did not come up.

No, no.

Gretchen Hercamp: no. Yeah. I,

Ally Brettnacher: I mean, not like you shake hands and you're like, hello? I've had two brain

Yeah.

Yeah. Um, but later I, I think I saw it for the first time in the Indy mini Facebook group.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah. Ryan,

Ally Brettnacher: was it monumental?

Gretchen Hercamp: It was monumental because Ryan, I have a Facebook, but I'm not on it [00:04:00] very often, but like, he'll post stuff, especially like he's had his own like bout of health issues.

So

Ally Brettnacher: story, which we could

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Tell alongside

Gretchen Hercamp: this. Yeah. We

could spend like hours talking about like his own issues, but he had shared a little bit about both of our experiences and the races we did both did last year. And he's from Seymour, so like he does the, they have an annual October fest every year and they do a 5K and he's like, he's won it a few years and he's like, he's a really, I'm more of like a, like a medium speed runner.

And he is, I mean he's run since he was 15, He's only gotten like quicker and he beats himself. It's like self-deprecating. Like I'm not as fast as I was in my late twenties, but it's like the life happened. Like

Ally Brettnacher: a

Gretchen Hercamp: lot of life had issues

and then we had, we had a kid and then we had all these issues and like that's just a part of it.

But yeah, so he is more forward with that, especially in like public ways, , where it's like all my coworkers and like the people in like our close circle have [00:05:00] provided all the, the meal train stuff and have been around to see like from when I first shared that I had a tumor to like, after my second surgery and then running all the races after that second surgery.

So yeah. Wow. It's crazy. It's so

Ally Brettnacher: is so crazy. so how did you first find out that you had a brain tumor? 'cause this is also tied into getting pregnant for the first

Gretchen Hercamp: so act so kind of, so, I had a really Regular period. I say, enviously regular period, like second week of every month kind of regularity.

so we didn't really have to try from we Miles. We had just gotten engaged and then about a month later we found out we were pregnant. And then a month later I was in Bloomington working in my working for the foundation. So it all happened really quickly. so that was, miles is eight.

Uh, he's born in 2017. And in December of 2021, I got off birth control. 'cause we were gonna try to have our second.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Gretchen Hercamp: And, um, my twin sister had just had her second [00:06:00] and we were like, we weren't really sure if we wanted more than one initially, uh, because everything happened so fast. and then so I, I got off birth control and I was like, oh, my period's gonna start back up again and I'm, we ready to go.

My period never came back. So, I was on the Nexplanon, so like I didn't have a period, 'cause it's a, like a non-hormonal birth control and I don't know if that's, that was non, non-hormonal back when I was breastfeeding and then was on the Nexplanon. but I got up, got that implant removed and was like ready to go.

And, summer 2022, it never came back. Like we're talking like six, seven months later. So my OB GYN runs a few different tests. we go through a, I call it a Provera challenge, which is where they basically flush your system with progesterone to try to get you to start your period. That

Um,

Ally Brettnacher: that doesn't sound very fun

Gretchen Hercamp: and lots of pills.

And nothing happened. So I'm like, okay, this isn't what I was expecting. I was expecting it to be so much easier. 'cause everything had been easy up until that [00:07:00] point. Yeah. and then she ran some blood work and, the first week of school, so Ryan's special education teacher. So everything kind of feels like a, a cycle, right?

There's summer break and then school starts and then, you know, so, I. I remember it was the first week of August, and I had all this, my OB, GYN ordered a ton of blood work to check out what my, where my hormone levels were. And you know, that's the, like the double-edged sword about having something like the IU Health portal because you can see all of yours.

You get a text message when your results are ready. Oh, right. And then it's like, I mean, cur, there's curiosity killed the cat. Like you go on. 'cause you're like, I'm gonna see

Ally Brettnacher: is that how you found out?

Gretchen Hercamp: So,

not that I had a tumor, but like, so

Ally Brettnacher: it was

Gretchen Hercamp: well I saw my estrogen levels were, like, there's like a scale and it was like postmenopausal low.

And I'm like,

oh my

God, did I go through perimenopause in the last several years and just like not know it. so I called my doctor and like leave a voicemail, like in a panic. I'm like, I don't know what this means. Like, it was like barely, [00:08:00] like the estrogen levels were barely readable and my system. And and she, it was, I remember she called me back, it was a Friday it was the first Friday of the school year because we had gone out for pizza. and she called me back and she was like, I understand your concern about your estrogen levels, but I'm more concerned about your prolactin levels. So prolactin is the hormone you secrete when you're breastfeeding.

I hadn't breastfed and like three and a half or four years, so like, it had been a long time. And, she's like, you know, it might not mean anything. Maybe your pituitary tumor is just kind of acting out. But usually that's a, that can be a marker of a pituitary tumor, is like an excess of one of these like reproductive related hormones.

So. She's like, I'm gonna order an MRI, I'm gonna refer you to a neurosurgeon and I'm gonna refer you to an endocrinologist. And she's like, usually it's really hard to get into an endocrinologist. So like you might hear from your neurosurgeon first. that was at the beginning of August. I have an MRI, luckily you can't see those images online or I probably would've driven myself crazy 'cause [00:09:00] I couldn't get in to see my neurosurgeon, Dr.

Shaw until, uh, the beginning of October. Okay. So, uh, and it was my sister's, my eldest sister's birthday. And, I remember coming up, I live in Bloomington, so like coming up and going to the neuroscience center, just south of Methodist. And I met Dr. Shaw for the first time and he pulls up my MRI image and like my tumor is this big and it's sitting right behind my nose and like pushing up on my optic nerves.

And so it's about like the size of a walnut. Yeah. Um, And he was like, I don't know for sure. He's like, your prolactin levels are elevated. I don't know if it's a, what do they call, they call it, if it is like an not an active tumor. but like, if it's one that's, if the tumor itself is secrete, uh, secreting the hormones or if it's pushing on your pituitary tumor in such a way that it is, but you're gonna need to have surgery.

And I was like, okay. I imagined that there would be medication or something. I didn't know if it were, if it was cancerous, I didn't know. [00:10:00] Like, and if it were secreting the hormones itself, the way Dr. Shaw explained it to me, if it, if it were secreting the hormones itself, I could take a medication and it could shrink it.

Well. After like looking at my levels, he's like, it would be much more elevated. Your prolactin levels would be much higher if it were secreting it. He, he was like, it's how it's pressing on your pituitary gland that's creating that excess. Mm-hmm. so yeah, so he was like, may, what are we thinking about?

Like December, he's like, I'm gonna present this to the tumor and board, but like. Again, this is early October of 22.

Ally Brettnacher: a tumor board.

That's,

Gretchen Hercamp: yeah. Yeah. So it, and it basically, they're like experts at the different kinds of tumors and different kinds of surgery. So it's that he presents it to the tumor board and they determine like, is this something that is like deemed like medically necessary?

what is the best way to like tackle the tumor? Um, so yeah, so he calls me back and he's like, what about December? And I was like, my husband's scheduled for kidney surgery

IMG_8480: in December.

Gretchen Hercamp: in December. and we have a, we'll have a five-year-old [00:11:00] at that point and we can't both be under, I can't do that to like my family.

I can't do that to poor miles, our son. and he was like, okay, well let's shoot for January. So between. December of, like, it was, Ryan had his, and it was his second kidney surgery. His first one almost killed him in December of 2020. So like, again, Ryan has his own whole

Ally Brettnacher: He'll, he'll be on the podcast at some point

Gretchen Hercamp: but it was one of those things, we kind of like lived it up in the fall of 22 because we both had these huge surgeries happening and miles turned five that year.

So like, we didn't know how much he was like aware that like mom and dad were having issues. Um,

Ally Brettnacher: which is probably, that's such a

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah. And like my, so I have three sisters, including my twin

sisters.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. I did not know

Gretchen Hercamp: And yeah, so, uh, Katie's the eldest. She is 11 years older. Heidi is second eldest, she's eight years older.

And then there's Bridget, myself. So, this was eight years between us. So age gaps have never been so like us having like toying around with the idea of continuing [00:12:00] to try to expand our family at this point. I'm not afraid of like age gaps because like our, we are very close with our big sisters. and honestly, they were the ones that came in.

they came down and took care of miles when I had surgery, so Ryan could be with me and like, it has been, I couldn't have done, so I'm grateful. So at one point Bridget had lived, I mean, Bridget's lived in a lot of different states, so Bridget's, my twin sister, but she had just moved back to Indianapolis right around the time I got diagnosed with that tumor.

Wow. So it was like one of those things that like, oh yeah, I live in Bloomington. I don't mind. Right. I'm from Indianapolis. and especially when Ryan and I were dating, they had 69, or I guess it was 37, turning into 69 on that, south connector between Indianapolis and Bloomington. They had it down to like one lane for several miles.

So like by then it was like, basically almost completely done. So it was. not a big deal to go back and forth, but I'm so grateful for like my sisters and, I mean, my, my parents are, are wonderful too, but you know, my big [00:13:00] sisters all have like grown kids now. So like, they love being able to soak up those moments with miles and, like Bridget's kids because it's like a new generation of nephews.

but yeah. But it has been a lot. So that was my first surgery, I mean. Alright,

Ally Brettnacher: and where are you from?

Gretchen Hercamp: I'm from, the south side of

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, that's what you said,

Gretchen Hercamp: South? Mm-hmm. Indianapolis.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. South side. Okay. And so do your parents still live in

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah, so my mom still lives in the University Heights area, which is just south of, , the University of Indianapolis.

Okay. So she lives in like a little college neighborhood. Like, definitely reminds me of like a neighborhood I would've lived in at Ball State or like the neighborhoods we walk through when we're like going to games at iu. only she's just holding down the fort, as a retiree and, and yeah, so we, I love Indianapolis.

I love, we're setting our roots down in Bloomington, but I don't mind making the, the drive up here, especially because of that hometown. Like

it's, mm-hmm.

Ally Brettnacher: It's

Gretchen Hercamp: hard to get away from your hometown. Are you from India? Are you

Ally Brettnacher: I'm from this area.

Gretchen Hercamp: Okay.

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah. So like, you, like you get it.

Yes. Like, 'cause I know [00:14:00] you went to college out of state.

Ally Brettnacher: Yes. Barely.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Miami of

Gretchen Hercamp: all had

Ally Brettnacher: like five miles across the border.

Gretchen Hercamp: You

Well, I mean, you probably still had to pay outta state

too.

Ally Brettnacher: Absolutely did.

Sorry, mom and dad. Yeah. So, okay, before we talk about surgery number two Yeah. Where is running alongside of this?

Gretchen Hercamp: So, , running has kind of been like peppered through.

Like I ran track, but I was like a 400 runner and I wasn't great. It was more like, you run 400, I was like assigned as a 400 runner, not because I was like good at it, but because like you need bodies to run and, and it's probably a lot different. Yeah. I went to high school in the early two thousands, so like, track and cross country, those things have continuously gotten like more and more popular, for the further I get out of high school.

But, my twin sister was always a distance runner, so I I ran a couple of five Ks in my early twenties. And then I, being from Indianapolis and going to the 500, I was like, I wanna eventually run the mini. So in 2014 I ran the mini for the first time. and I, at that point I had run a few five Ks and, the year [00:15:00] before I had run my first 10 K.

So it was kind of like a slow build to like the longer distances. Mm-hmm. And I think sometimes it's hard, especially with so much being on social media, where sometimes it feels like the pipeline from, from 5K to ultra marathon is like six

Ally Brettnacher: months. Six months. Oh my gosh.

Gretchen Hercamp: exactly

IMG_8480: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: that's exactly how I feel. Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: And like, I think distance is a great way to deal with like trauma.

Like, and, and I've, I've used that in like, my recovery from my surgeries, but like, you know, from like childhood trauma, like it has been, it's been a great outlet. I kind of have to like pause and like admit like the amount of time it's taken and like the journey. Each year, I feel like I get to do this.

I have a little bit more of appreciation for it. I don't like, hate it like I used to because now it's, I'm not chasing, yeah, it's great to like pr, but like it's also really nice to like have the outlet, especially when there's so much in the world that we can't control. I can control where I am right now.

Mm-hmm. Um, and like where I'm heading. [00:16:00] but yeah, so first half marathon was the Mini, in 2014. And then I kept thinking, oh, i'm gonna run a marathon, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. I remember I, every once in a while I see like, you know, if I'm,

IMG_8480: I

Gretchen Hercamp: remember posting things on like Facebook.

Like 2013 and 24, right around the same time I ran like that first 10 K, like I'm gonna run the Chicago marathon and very like borderline cringey. 'cause it's not like I had a plan to get there, it was more like I'm gonna do this. and it's so funny 'cause of how long it took to get there and it's not for a lack of like trying, uh, Bridget and I actually signed up, so she ran California International Marathon in like She was living in San Francisco, so like,

Ally Brettnacher: as her

Gretchen Hercamp: you know, as her first marathon. As her first marathon. and I was like, at that point, north Face did the North Face endurance challenge and they had one, they had, A course that was right outside of San Francisco, we signed up for it. Like in your twenties, you don't have any other, I think I was living with my big sister, like we didn't have any other bills, like mm-hmm.

we never did it. We didn't buy tickets, we didn't, like we did, we started, we tried to [00:17:00] blog about it, our training. It was like twins TWA training. Like we were trying to be like cutesy about it. Yeah. and it's, I'm sure that is still out there. That blog is still out there. And probably I don't, I'm afraid to go out and read what I wrote and at that point in my life.

but then like it, we, you know, life happens and, she moved from San Francisco to Vegas. Her husband works at National Weather Service. So it's kind of like, that was like his first like, big job out, at what a

Ally Brettnacher: bonus as a runner to have that asset.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah. Um, so like, but like, life just kind of like happened and then we didn't really talk about it.

I didn't run very often. I got really into like, weight train. Not like, not like, you know, CrossFit or anything, but like, just weight training on a sporadic basis. I think I did P 90 X for a while. That's like, you know, the 2000 tens, you know. So, but yeah, so, 2014 first mini, and then I wouldn't run another half marathon until after Miles was born, so it was 20, it was the mini of [00:18:00] 2019.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Gretchen Hercamp: I would run it again. So, and it was just a whole different, you know, when you're training with a kid, you're pushing a stroller, and in Bloomington everything is, has to be hilly. So even like the flat trails are still like much hillier than anything I ever did training from the mini up here.

I was living up by 56th Street when I ran it the first time. Okay. And so I would run through Eagle Creek, which is wonderful. Yes. Um, but yeah. And then so in 2019, so in 2020. Bridget and I sign up. she's living in Waukesha, Wisconsin. Her husband works in Milwaukee. We sign up for the lakefront marathon for October, 2020.

I go up there and again, it's pandemic, but like, we're like, we're family. So like we get together, we're still ta I'm still taking miles up there , for weekends over the summer. We're trying to train as much as we can together, even though we live several hours apart. and then they cancel it because everything ended up being canceled.

And they're like, well, we could do, we said we could do the virtual option, but I was like, no, if I'm gonna run my first mar, I wanna do it in person. Like, I wanna experience all the

[00:19:00] things

Ally Brettnacher: people, people did their first marathons during COVID virtually. And I don't, I That's crazy.

Gretchen Hercamp: Well, that like, the mental, like tenacity, like that takes to like commit to that virtually like

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: And not have all the benefits of like, the crowd. And like

IMG_8480: Uh,

Ally Brettnacher: I did. the only, well maybe, probably not the only, but, the longest I had done virtually was the Ind 2020.

And then I skipped it in 2021 because. I didn't wanna do a virtual again. Like it was fun at the time. 'cause it was like the first time I ever did that. Yeah. So I like planned a route by friends' houses and you know, it was, it was fun ish, but it was still like really hard. 'cause Yeah. There's no fanfare.

You're just, I mean, there's some thanks to my friends, but Yeah. It's not

same.

Gretchen Hercamp: It feels like a long run. Yeah. Like a and not, like, not like a fun, and don't get me wrong, like, there are definitely moments in a marathon where you're like, oh my, this is not fun.

I'm not having fun. I, especially like, I feel like the closest I've ever hit to a wall, what has been like right around Butler for the [00:20:00] monumental. So monumental was my first marathon in 2023. This was nine months after my first brain surgery.

Ally Brettnacher: which Okay.

Gretchen Hercamp: so,

Ally Brettnacher: So also you find out it's not cancerous. Yeah. Right. At some point in there too. Which is like, did you think you had cancer? did you tell yourself, oh I probably have cancer?

Gretchen Hercamp: I think that was probably, that's

Ally Brettnacher: what I would do.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah. No, I think that was more of like a, like I need to protect like my heart at that point, like the tumor piece and knowing I was gonna have to have like brain surgery and know, and like also trying to like save face for like my family who was also like actively freaking out, like having a twin sister.

Like we know how to press each other's buttons and we know how to like get on each other's nerves, but like, we also like overshare and over care and like everything. Just so I know that even though it wasn't her. Issue. It was her issue. Um, and she also had like, the perspective, so her son, her eldest son [00:21:00] is three months older than Miles.

So like

to

try to see that perspective too, that like, oh, well she's dealing with all of this and she's trying to deal with kindergartner. And, yeah, so I, I tried not to go, like,

Ally Brettnacher: good for you. Worst

Gretchen Hercamp: case scenario. Well, and like, Ryan's mom passed of cancer in oh six, so like, anytime we talk

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: The

word, like, and there've been some, you know, he's had issues where he's had extra tests to verify.

He doesn't have, any kind of like markers for, for cancer. And like, I think because it's hit so close to home, it's like, I can't, I can't go there. I think I did ask Dr. Shaw like, what is the, what's the, what's, what's the potential of this being cancerous? And he did a great job of. S of not scaring me to death thinking like worst case scenario that like, it's pretty unlikely we will send it out for tests.

You will know what our results are, but we just need to get through the surgery because this is going to start impacting your like, you know, you wanna grow your family. this is not just that, like [00:22:00] it's gonna start affecting your vision if it continues to grow and push up on that optic nerve.

So,

Ally Brettnacher: also crazy that you didn't have severe headaches.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah.

so I had like migraines, but like I just kind of tossed it up to like tension headaches and you know, usually probably around my period,

you know.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: I had my period.

Ally Brettnacher: So you're like,

Gretchen Hercamp: so I'm

like this is normal and I think as women we do that we justify everything because we even like, finding the right doctors to like listen to us when we're trying to advocate for ourselves, is a whole other thing too.

Dr. Maley, my OB GYN could have been like. Well, it's okay. Like maybe you did go through perimenopause, but she was like, no, we're gonna keep running these tests. We're gonna, and again, we, I wouldn't have found my tumor as soon as I did without her help. And I think it helps that she was a lady. And like, and I mean, don't get me wrong, my neurosurgeon is very talented dude.

and is is like the best he is. He's like literally like the interim chair of that department at the school of Medicine. So like, he's wonderful. Yeah. [00:23:00] Um, and he does a great job of listening and explaining and, it wasn't cancerous. I was grateful that he explained it in a way that I, my brain didn't run off with that.

Mm-hmm. Um, but it also gave me peace of mind and gave me at least a little bit of, okay, I can explain this to my family, that this is big and this is scary, but I'm in like the best possible hands. And like if it is, we will just deal with it.

then.

Like, we will deal with it then. But when I was like, isn't there like a medication that can strength this?

He was like, it's not that kind of tumor. So like, you know, uh, not that like medica like that kind of medication is like even easy to like deal with. and that would've been if it were a, if a hormone secreting tumor.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Gretchen Hercamp: Then they would've fought it with like other hormones, not like radiation or especially 'cause of how close it's to your eyes.

Like they don't, they don't, that's like a worst case scenario. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, but we can talk about when that was even discussed after as we were, [00:24:00] like, as we found out it was regrowing. Spoiler alert. cause I've had two surgeries, right?

Ally Brettnacher: right? Gosh. Like, did they tell you after the first one? Like, Hey, did you do routine checks at all?

Yeah. To like, see if it would come, like,

Gretchen Hercamp: So every six months I would go in for an MRI and I would go in for an MRI like, that was pretty standard, just so they could track to see if it would grow. So during my first surgery, I sprung a, like cerebral fluid leak.

so brain surgery makes it seem like they're coming through here. They go through, they went through my nose. Really? Yeah. So it

it was,

Ally Brettnacher: yeah, I pictured like half of your head shaved. Like

Gretchen Hercamp: was, I was fortunate in that way, but, yeah, so I spun a leak. They had to take a little bit of material from my belly and get it all, blocked up, up there and then, they had to leave a little sliver in.

Now after my first surgery, he was like, it's very unlikely this will grow. if it starts to grow at all, like five to 10 years down the road, we will keep a watch on it. But like if you have so many MRIs that are good, like with show limited growth or no growth at, at all, then we will, [00:25:00] move you to five year every year or once a year and then maybe five, once every five years.

So, I knew there was a little sliver left in there and it because, and it was basically where like the stock was, like where it started growing in the first place. and it was off to the side and it was right underneath my carotid artery. So I figured if they left it in there and he said it's unlikely to grow, I'm not worried about it. I didn't think about it regrowing at all, to be completely honest, that I'm done. Like,

Ally Brettnacher: yeah,

Gretchen Hercamp: 2023 is gonna be the best year ever because I got this done. And then we've, I've got these big goals and yeah, so life moved on. We gotta see Taylor Swift in 2023. So like, I took miles, to Cincinnati.

and we went on multiple vacations. We were, it was our second year of being season ticket holders for IU football. So like it was. Life was good at the end of, especially like, as the further we got out from surgery, like I felt better, I felt stronger. I watched Bridget run the mini that year and I had such fomo, like Heidi, Katie, and myself.

We went and watched her on [00:26:00] the course and it was my first time as a spectator for the mini, and I had so much fomo. I was so proud of her. Like I was like crying when she like crossed the finish line. But I had so much fomo too 'cause I'm like, I wanna do that.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Why didn't you do it at that time?

Gretchen Hercamp: I wouldn't have had like a full, like, I think I didn't get the all clear, even start working out until like six weeks after surgery. Okay. So that put me like March, so Right.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. Yeah.

That would've been a little

Gretchen Hercamp: it was like mid-March too. So like, it. And I hadn't been like, training, training. So like I, and I was in the hospital bed.

I, so I reacted really poorly to my first surgery. It was a success, but like, my body didn't respond well to it. So like, it was a lot to like, even just get up out of like my bed and just walk down the hallway. So I felt like when I started training, I would need to, like, let's start seeing can I, can I walk for 10 minutes at a time?

Yeah. Can I, okay. If I can walk for 10 minutes at a time, can I jog for a couple minutes and then walk? And like, I felt like I [00:27:00] started, I had never run before. Right. Because I didn't really know how my body would respond after that surgery. So, so, yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That makes sense. Well, I was just, I guess now it's like, well, duh. Yeah. The timeline of Yeah. You had was surgery in January of 23. Yeah. But you were diagnosed in late 22. Mm-hmm. Okay. So then no wonder you didn't, but nine months after

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Your surgery

Gretchen Hercamp: monumental was in late October that year.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh yeah. The one year we've had it in October. Maybe not

Gretchen Hercamp: It was great. It was great weather.

Like, but so, Bridget was like, Hey, I'm gonna sign up for this race, like we should do it together. And I was like, I hate to say, like, it shouldn't, it definitely shouldn't take some like traumatic event to be like, if not now, then when, but like, that is very much like, I'm gonna throw myself into this because look what I can do.

I just went through this brain surgery. Of course, I'm gonna like, try to like, push my body to the limits because try to push it itself to limits without being asked. So, without asking its permission first. so yeah, so we, we ran, we trained, we did a, like a full training block for [00:28:00] monumental of 2023.

And it's my, my first marathon. It only took, you know, like I said, my first. Half marathon was 2014. Yeah, 20. So now we're talking October, spring of 2014 was my first mini October, 2023 was my first fall. And I met Carlton Ray.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

I'm so excited that you have a Carlton story.

Gretchen Hercamp: Oh my

Ally Brettnacher: gosh. Okay. Tell me about it.

Gretchen Hercamp: So we,

Ally Brettnacher: oh, Carlton by the way, is the founder Yes. And creator of monumental.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah. It, you know, I didn't, I didn't know that. And we, Bridget and I stayed at the jw, even though she lives in Avon, like it is kinda like a mom's night out because

Ally Brettnacher: don't I, I love

Gretchen Hercamp: you know,

Ally Brettnacher: for races downtown

Gretchen Hercamp: and everything's so convenient. Like I'm a Bonvoy member, but like it is right in the middle of everything.

Yes. And same for the mini, we've stayed there for the mini Yes. So, but We had dinner at O Op and I think it's different now. I don't, I think there's a different restaurant now. It was an

Oh

Ally Brettnacher: yeah.

Asteria Pronto or something like that.

Gretchen Hercamp: Um, and so we, and we had a, a girlfriend come down from, from Porter County 'cause she, [00:29:00] she and her husband came to watch us run the Monumental and so we, we met up with them at dinner and then we, cause she had run her first marathon earlier that year, so it was like, it was a, it was a big Yeah, she,

IMG_8480: how a

Ally Brettnacher: of a deal that was, especially after what you had gone

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah. And, and so it, I know it was, so we were on our, we were on our way back up and we noticed this guy in the elevator and he had like the coolest Brooks like jacket on. And I, you know, they, if you're a volunteer, like there's a lot of great like swag.

you got. Mm-hmm.

like, just the benefit of like being involved.

And I was like, oh my gosh, did you get that as like a volunteer? Like that is an amazing like jacket. And he was like. yeah. Yeah. Actually, I'm the found, like, and I don't, he said it in like such a casual way. It didn't hit me until we were out of the elevator, that that's who we were like talking to.

And, but I was like, this is actually my first marathon. Like, we're from Indianapolis. And he was like, well, good luck.

Ally Brettnacher: he's the best.

he listens to this too. [00:30:00] Oh, hi Carlton. Hi

Gretchen Hercamp: Carlton.

and, but it was like one of those things, like we got outta the elevator and we're like, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

'cause Bridget pulled up the, I think he may, I don't even know if he said he was the founder or if he worked for monumental, like the, the, I don't remember. Uh, but we were like starstruck when we got on the website and saw his face.

Ally Brettnacher: You're like,

Gretchen Hercamp: we're like, oh my gosh. which leads me, so the race day, Bridget is full of grit.

Like she is, she's always been like that. Like, but she, at the end, I mean, I was. I was dead at the end of, and we, we did really, I was really excited 'cause we were trying to finish between, like four and a half and five hours. Like, we wanted to keep it broad because we didn't, I didn't know how

Right. I do. Even if

did two 20 mile training runs during that.

During that,

your first

yeah. During that block. but towards the end, there's some great pictures out there because again, I'm holding, I'm, I feel like I was like just holding on for dear life to keep up with Bridget. 'cause she takes off. She's got all this momentum. I'm like, [00:31:00] Slow down please. Like, I'm gonna like get, I was like, Bri, I think I'm gonna throw up, I'm gonna throw up.

And she's like, no, you can do it. You can do it. So we're like, you know, we hold hands at the, at the finish line and you, if you look at the pictures, I like slowly bring my hand up like this. And I just like, as soon as I like, get out of range of the cameras and I, not that I'm like, I did that on purpose.

That was just sheer luck. I like bend over and like get sick and someone hands me it was a can of water and like, I don't drink anymore. 'cause all the medications I've been on in the last several years, and I was like, no, I don't want any. And she's like, Gretchen like, take it, it's water. And then we, we walk.

Ally Brettnacher: That's funny.

Gretchen Hercamp: And she was like, do you know who just gave that to you? And I was like, no. She was like, it was Carlton Ray and like. I don't know. I'm sure he hears stories like that all the time, but like that being my first marathon. And my favorite thing about, and I don't know of other marathons, do this.

If it's your first marathon, they give you like an extra bib to put on saying like, this is my

first marathon. Mm-hmm.[00:32:00]

and people will cheer you on. Like I had a, I had my, my actual bib on the front and then I had, this is my first marathon on the back and people are cheering you on. So like this year when I ran it for the second time, I was cheering anytime I saw a first, this is my first marathon because anyone who's ever, whether you're a runner, you understand like The impact and like the boost of energy you get from like spectators, but like when you have another runner who's also trying to like manage their breathing and, and, and has their own goal, say like, you got it. Like keep, especially towards the end when you're like gasped and you're just so tired just to say like, you're so close.

Like you've got it, you got it. so yeah. So that was, that was a really special experience doing the monumental for the first time in 23.

Ally Brettnacher: and did you get your goal, the time goal

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah. So we finished

Ally Brettnacher: that's amazing because not that that

Gretchen Hercamp: matters,

in 4 34 something. So we were, I was, I was really happy with that and especially because we, like Bridget was so [00:33:00] good about, Bridget was like my.

In race coach, and this was her second marathon too, so it's not like she had like years and years of like, but she, she kept, well, we need to watch her how fast we're going. Like, we're going out too fast. Like, we need to bring it back a little bit. She would always like, kinda like, bring me back into like where I needed to be because I was, you know, you're feeding off the crowd and you're like, I feel so good.

Yes. So, yeah. So we were, I was so excited about hitting that because like, again, there are a lot of people who have really ambitious running goals like Ryan would love to qualify for Boston. I mean, I imagine he will eventually qualify for Boston 'cause he's just so tenacious.

But like, just to be able to say, I ran a marathon, whether that's in three hours or five hours or seven hours, there's so many people who don't even attempt it.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: And like the training block itself is insane. Yeah, absolutely. Getting,

Ally Brettnacher: getting to the start line.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Is a marathon more than a marathon. Yeah. It's just, it's especially healthy and yeah. I mean, just incredible too for you. Like only nine [00:34:00] months after. And you're a mom now too, which is a whole nother thing.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Like, I mean, even for, for Bridget who didn't have brain

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah. And she had two kids, she had two. Like,

Yeah,

Ally Brettnacher: that's amazing.

Gretchen Hercamp: Cooper who is Miles's age, and then Calvin who was born in December of 21.

So like, you know, he wasn't even two when she ran that

marriage.

Ally Brettnacher: Amazing. Yeah. Absolutely amazing.

Gretchen Hercamp: Three. Yeah. He wasn't even two yet because his, he's born in December. and that was something that's really great, like when you have someone to train with because you, like, we don't talk about running when we're training, we're talking about life.

Mm-hmm. Like we're talking about like, oh, like Calvin didn't sleep or like a Miles has been having this issue at school. Or like, we're talking about setting our kids up for sports. we're, we talk about pop culture, which is also like a huge thing for us. 'cause we'll start. Yeah. So,

Ally Brettnacher: So not to like ask you to trauma dump by any means. Yeah. But you mentioned earlier running is just kind of helping you work through some of your childhood trauma.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: So could you explain [00:35:00] how that relationship with running started and how it helped you do that?

that?

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah, so, my parents got divorced when we were in the second grade. and with having older siblings too, like Heidi was still in high school, but like very much had her own like life happening.

There was a lot of times where it was just like Bridget and I. but I went through some abuse as a kid. I, it was, I was nine and then it was, I was just shy of 22 before I told. My mom about it. So it's very much like, I think about the times where it has felt heaviest on my heart, whether there's been things happening in politics that whether things have happened in politics that have been a kind of re-trigger mm-hmm.

Moments and memories and feelings or again, when things feel out of control, I need like a project. and I won't go too much on like my childhood trauma, but I think a lot about how I've had to handle like all of this business with like my tumor [00:36:00] and. Um, all we wanted was to grow our family like that.

We just wanted another baby. and the twins were in our family, so like, we're like, I wouldn't be like upset if we got pregnant with twins. Like, it'd be like, holy shit, there's two of 'em. But like, you know, but I think about the moments where I couldn't control something. I needed something to be able to control.

Yeah. Whether that was okay, I, I have to somehow become like a super mom and manage all of my time because there's 24 hours in a day and like something is going to get. Neglected, whether that's my training or work or whatever, like how do I figure out how to make it work? Which is not anything, that's just my experience that is like a universal experience.

And even like people who aren't parents, you know, maybe they're caring for like parents or maybe they're caring for like other family members, or you just don't know what kind of history people kind of bring.

Ally Brettnacher: Right?

Gretchen Hercamp: And, and running is, and endurance sports in general, like. You see so [00:37:00] much of that, whether that is childhood abuse or losing a parent at a young age, I wonder a lot about Ryan specifically who, you know, I, to me, like if I, if I feel like worn down, I take rest a, I like force arrest day because I don't wanna get burned out.

I don't wanna get injured. And like Ryan is very much like someone who feels guilty for taking a rest day. And there's so many people that he, that is not just his issue used. I used to be,

Ally Brettnacher: very much that way.

Gretchen Hercamp: but like, and I worry about him in, in that way. But I think too, like, you know, he lost his mom right after he turned 20.

So like, thinking about that and like thinking about health issues and it's like, I think that is one outlet for him. again, it's not something that's just something that our family has dealt with, but that's pretty like. Universal, the Olympics are going on right now. all these kids are, have dealt with something in their life , and their sport, like their event, their, community that they have found [00:38:00] has offered some sort of peace, even if it's, even if the training is chaos and, and it brings them to this like pinnacle event that there is something that like they've worked their whole lives for.

Like there's a, a male figure skater who lost

horses. I was just

was skater. Oh my gosh. They, they

Ally Brettnacher: I didn't watch it yet. I need to watch it.

Gretchen Hercamp: And it's just imagine like having, and that was like last year, like ha dealing with so much loss, but like being so inspired to like, keep going.

Yeah. And I know my personal story and I know the things that like drive me, but like I as a parent now, like I want Miles to see that you're gonna lose games and like, there are gonna be things that like, feel so heavy, but like you just have to keep like, showing up and like, we want to break down and we want, like, we lost our dog in December and Benny was like, my baby.

I had Benny before Ryan and I started dating. So like, that was hard. But like, miles grew up with Benny. So like having those kind of conversations, like I want him to feel all of the feelings, but know, [00:39:00] like it's still important to like, show up in whatever way you can. Yeah. that like, It, it can be a lot.

And like, and I, I don't wanna say like my childhood trauma helped prepare me for things like dealing with something as unpredictable as like that the whole tumor business, pituitary tumor business like, but it kind of did because it was. Okay, now I have to like show, it's not just showing up for myself.

I have to show up for like my family. And like, that's hard to do. to, to minimize your own feelings, to show up and like be as present with your kids as possible. So, but yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: So much. Yeah. Sweet. Benny? Yeah, we have Doug who is gonna be 12 in April and it's gonna be awful. Yeah.

Yeah. He's my first baby.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: And like, just the change that happens when there's no longer a beloved animal in the house I'm so

Gretchen Hercamp: sorry. I, I work from home, so like, I went and luckily, I don't wanna say luckily it all happened be, so my birthday's December 18th and [00:40:00] it was December 22nd when I took him.

And like, he had gone to multiple vets at that point. , Before it was just like, it's time. but. When Miles and Ryan went back to school, so like we a couple weeks later, that was the hardest transition. but yeah, it's, it's definitely hard. but again, you have to keep, you have to keep carrying on.

Like, and I think with bringing us all back to like running like that has been the most way I can possibly commit to something is like, okay. And a lot of times, you know, your brain like wanders, like even if you're listening to music, you're thinking about other things like, that is very much a great way to like work through some of those feelings.

I haven't experienced grief as I've experienced with Benny. 'cause I have, my parents are still alive. But it hits you in waves and it's. Like I told Ryan, I was like, you know, he's lost both of his parents

Oh, both of his

and yeah, so his dad passed away, in March of 2018. So Miles wasn't even six months old.

It [00:41:00] was just, and it was really sudden. So like it was

Ally Brettnacher: So

Gretchen Hercamp: you know, and for so I know, and, I wish he would talk about his grief so that way he could work through those feelings. But it is very much like it hits you in waves and some, and I think that's like, whether it's, also dealing with abuse, it hits in waves.

Like there are times where you can try to shove it down as much as you can, but then it just pops up in random places. So then it can either empower you to do more or honestly, that has been the best part is like dealing with it. Because I feel more empowered to talk about it because so many people won't talk about

Ally Brettnacher: and so many people have

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Gone through it. Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: and not to the statistics. So I, I used to work for the Ys and I was a camp counselor. So every camp counselor, just like every teacher has to take child abuse prevention. And in the state of Indiana, it's like one in four girls and one in six boys before the age of 18.

And that is just who reports it? Like,

Ally Brettnacher: yeah,

Gretchen Hercamp: so I call, so Todd Young and Jim Banks are our senators, and then Aaron [00:42:00] Houchin is my state rep. And I call all the time and, and it's, it certainly isn't just about You know, the Epstein viles are, it, it is about things that impact our lives every day. Mm-hmm. And, and running like, if anything brings forward this like, common humanity, like I don't care who you voted for, I want you to have the same things that I do. I want everyone to benefit if they need something, you know?

So, so yeah, I've been, in the last year I've definitely called and emailed and have tried to show up in those ways. I just submitted two applications to be on commissions in Bloomington. Yeah. Because, like, I wanna be a bigger part of things but like I don't feel like I could like run, because like we could never go on a single income.

Like we, I could never rely on my husband's special education salary and especially with the cost of living in Bloomington. so I couldn't like in fair faith, like be able to leave my job to be able to run for office. But the more I talk about my own, whether it's [00:43:00] my childhood trauma or like paying off medical bills because I've had two brain surgeries, like all of those things, we are in a position of like privilege where I work for, an organization has an HSA and I can contribute to the HSA and they contribute to the HSA and I can pay off my medical debt without it weighing so heavily on my family.

And I have good insurance too. So, but I think about people who don't have that.

Ally Brettnacher: Absolutely.

Gretchen Hercamp: You know, like, or people who bust their butts for companies that rake in profits and they they can barely pay their bills and don't have good insurance at all, or, or don't qualify for insurance. So

Yeah. So that's all.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Well

Gretchen Hercamp: day talking about that, but

Ally Brettnacher: yeah.

Well, thank you for doing something about it. Sometimes at least, I, I just feel paralyzed with just the state of the world is just so messed up that it's just like, what the hell? , But when I asked you about childhood trauma. I thought you were gonna talk about growing up with nothing.

Gretchen Hercamp: Oh yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: And instead [00:44:00] you were like, well, well, so it's just like, I can't, what you've been through in your life is just, I can't believe you thought Well, yeah. I don't, I don't know if I could come out a podcast 'cause I, but I mean, you've just been through your resilience.

Gretchen Hercamp: It

Ally Brettnacher: is. Is insane. Is insane. I mean, but like you said, you have to keep going through otherwise, you know, that's the way you have to go.

Yeah. so we haven't talked yet about your second brain surgery Yeah. As well. So we started talking about how you were having scans and the regrowth and so, okay. At what point

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Marker

Ally Brettnacher: So we started talking about how you were having scans and the regrowth and so, okay. At what point did you go and get a scan where they're like, it's grown, it's growing enough to where the second surgery had to

Gretchen Hercamp: July 20, 24.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh my gosh.

Gretchen Hercamp: So I, it was like right at a year and a half. I hadn't signed up for monumental yet, but I was gonna run it for the second time with Bridget 'cause she had already signed up.

Ally Brettnacher: And that would've been that the

Gretchen Hercamp: year. Yeah, that would've been the next year. And, uh, I went in for my MRI and felt really [00:46:00] good.

Like, I, I mean really in 2024 I felt really good and that point I had had a couple, so like I know how to like, read the radiology reports and enough of a way to know if something's. Wrong or if something is okay. and I saw that it was regrowing and I remember coming out, guess I work from home and it was summer break and I came out and, Ryan was in the living room and I was like, I think it's regrowing.

And then, I got a call from Dr. Shaw's office and he's like, Hey, we wanna see you back in again. So we went up, we didn't say anything to Miles. Like Miles knew I had had surgery before, uh, at that point, 'cause Heidi and Katie came and stayed with him and the cool ants came and, and stayed with him. And I remember coming back from that appointment at the neuroscience center with Dr.

Shaw and he was like, we're gonna, I think we're gonna have to have surgery again. And I was like, is there anything else we can do? Like, I know before you mentioned if it, if it were, if it was a secreting hormone that like you could, or secreting tumor, that you could fight it with like different hormone therapies.

and he was like, well, even if we were to try to [00:47:00] do like a radiation to shrink it, it is so close to so many important things in that space. so he was like, I'm gonna present it to the tumor board. now it is very close to your carotid artery.

'cause your carotid goes up through. and he was like, but ideally we would like to probably have a second surgery. So this is j uh, July of 2024. we agreed October and they, initially they wanted it to be, I wanna say they wanted it to be the 20th. That's Miles's

birthday. Oh

Ally Brettnacher: gosh.

Gretchen Hercamp: And I was like, can we do it like a couple days later?

That's my son's birthday. so yeah. October, 2024. Uh, October 22nd, 2024, I had my second brain surgery and I was so like worried about not waking up this time. Like it had, that hadn't occurred to me the first time, but like the second time I was like, well, how good can I look, be like to like go through this like unfazed twice?

Uh, I mean unfazed like recovery sucks, right? Yeah. But like, but I remember waking up in like the triage [00:48:00] area and I'm sure the nurses probably thought I was like a psycho. 'cause I was like talking their ear off and I was like, Hey, I'm gonna need, because I remember how sick I felt after the first surgery.

'cause I do really poorly with painkillers. Yeah. So I was like, could I have like an applesauce? Like I was like asking for things and I was asking names. So I was a lot more with it after the second surgery than I was the first surgery. and I'd get my phone out and I'd like write, I would type in names of like my nurses so that way when they came back in I could like talk to them.

So I was like a lot more with it and trying to be like more appreciative

Ally Brettnacher: I'm so, that is so kind. After brain surgery, Gretchen, everyone needs to just take notes on how thoughtful that is. I think it's really important. Tangent names. I have like a notes app in my notes app. I try so hard to like jot down names, people's, spouses, names, kids, all, you know, 'cause I have a terrible memory so if I don't put it somewhere that I can reference it, I'm not gonna remember.

Gretchen Hercamp: It was, it was really so important. It was really important for me because like, I don't [00:49:00] remember that triage area after my first surgery. I remember waking up in the intensive care unit and Ryan and my mom maybe were in there. But this time I was awake from the triage area to the ICU. 'cause you have to spend at least 24 hours there after brain surgery.

and I remember, like I, and they have to like fully like change you out of whatever you had on during your surgery to like more sterile stuff because you're in the intensive care unit. And I'm like, can I do something different? Can I help? Like, trying to like, I don't wanna say I was like trying to help, but I was like, I was trying not to.

'cause I was unconscious when they did this the first time. I was so in and out of

Wow.

but yeah, but I was, my hospital stay after my first surgery was six days. My hospital stay after my second surgery was three days. And I was like, so much because it, they had already drilled into all of the space, so all they had to do, I don't wanna be like graphic.

They had to like lift a flap. That was like such an under understatement of the year. But they, it was a lot easier for them. They didn't have

Ally Brettnacher: I mean, that, that makes sense. Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: Um,

but yeah, so it [00:50:00] was, yeah. and like it's so, because they go through your nose, you can't. You have to open mouth sneeze for like six weeks.

You can't blow your nose.

Ally Brettnacher: I've had a septoplasty and it's awful.

Gretchen Hercamp: is, uh, a

Ally Brettnacher: a week of just not being able to

Gretchen Hercamp: it Well, and when they, so they put in a splint

Ally Brettnacher: Yes. Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: Keep

open and it's the weirdest feeling. So they took it out like the day, like one or two days after my surgery. It was, or it was right before I was being discharged after my second surgery.

I had to keep that sucker in for a week after my first surgery. So then we had to go back up to Indianapolis and have them like, remove it. You can't like smile with your upper lip 'cause it's all like, so like stiff because like this thing's like the size of your ear lobe, straight up your nose. but yeah, but it's like first world, like first world problem.

I'm so grateful for like my medical team, because like I could complain about how uncomfortable that was, but like Everything

went so well after that second surgery. Like, didn't spring any leaks, didn't have issues like, was up walking the next day.

I had other issues in my [00:51:00] recovery after that, that surgery.

But physical issues, not so much. Like I was moving around really well. and even though I didn't get to go, I, I stayed home while Bridget ran monumental and my big sister Heidi ran, the half of,

Ally Brettnacher: Oh yeah.

'cause that would've been like a week and a half after

Gretchen Hercamp: your

yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Heidi ran the half, so I, at home you can track people on the app, and so I'm sending text messages and like, again, you kinda have like FOMO from afar, but I'm like, I could not try, even if I had a scooter trying to make my way, like it would've been so much on my body just to like be present.

but I, again, nothing like lights the fire then some trauma, like here, well here's a, what's another project I can focus on because, so after my second surgery, my 2025, correct. Yeah. So 2025. well, my. pituitary, I don't know, like what my issue with my pituitary gland is now. Besides

it, what

Ally Brettnacher: is the purpose of it?

Gretchen Hercamp: Oh, it controls like everything. So it sends all these signals to your, like [00:52:00] reproductive system and your, like your endocrine system in general. So you have your thyroid, your pituitary, your adrenal gland. It, I guess it stopped talking. It's, it's been giving a silent treatment to my adrenal gland, so I have an adrenal deficiency now, so my body doesn't produce cortisol.

I have to take, I have to take synthetic cortisol hydrocortisone every day because it has not rebounded. And that was something different that didn't happen during the first surgery, but happened. The second surgery,

Ally Brettnacher: science and body stuff is just,

Gretchen Hercamp: it's annoying. I mean, it's great love science, but I, I.

Ah, I'm overlearning more about the endocrine system, right? Yeah. I just wanna be normal again. not that I ever was like normal, uh, but physically normal would be, would be great. Um, so, and then like my, because my hormones were more out of whack this time around than they were the first time. Uh, I've been put on hormone replacement therapy again.

I just wanted to have another baby. And so in 2025 things you can't control, like weight gain. I, I put [00:53:00] on 20 pounds in a year, which was a lot for me at that, at that time. Yeah. So it was one of those things I'm like, I ran a thousand miles in 2025 and it didn't matter and I was weight training and like some of it sure could be muscle, would love to think that it was like 20 pounds of muscle and there's just like a brick house.

but like. You know, I'm kind of looking at it as like resistance training in a way, because like I'm running with more weight, I'm still running quickly ish. Um, so Bridget, it was Bridget's idea. I'm gonna blame her. She's five minutes older than me, so I'm just gonna blame her for everything.

she was like, what if we ran the three, like spring, big spring races and she called it the Indianapolis, like triple crown or something. I love that. So it was the Indianapolis Mini Marathon, or Technically it starts with the Carmel Marathon. Yeah. because that's in April. And then the Indianapolis Mini Marathon, which is the half marathon, and then the full mo, which is the entire length of the Monan Trail, which is a 50 K ultra marathon.

the, like I said. Carmel is [00:54:00] typically in April, which it was all set. We, I mean, you and I met at the expo and then it got canceled the morning of, 'cause we had some like gnarly

Ally Brettnacher: freak storm. It was just so sad.

Gretchen Hercamp: I remember. So my big sister Heidi ran the, was signed up to run the half. And while we were running the full and we were all, we were getting ready at Bridget's house and I had my sparkle freckles on and my lip stain on.

And Heidi's like, I just got a text saying that they cancel it. And I was like, Berta And I were like, shut the fuck up. Like, are you kidding me? Like

yeah,

Ally Brettnacher: that's not

Gretchen Hercamp: pulling our leg and she was like, no. Like they just sent it out. And so I really feel for the people who flew in or who booked hotels, but man, if you saw the footage of that finish line,

Ally Brettnacher: There was

Gretchen Hercamp: and it's not just like the safety of the people who participate.

It is the spectators, it are the volunteers and the police officers. Like it is a massive undertaking to be able to do that. So they offered a virtual option, so we kind of tucked it into our. Our as a training block is like a long run. So we did the mini, and she and I set like, it [00:55:00] was her pb my PB was, and when I was 27 in 2014.

but she set her PB that Bridget was like, I'm going after those, that two 15 pace keep her. Like, this is what we're we're just gonna keep chasing after her. and we, I think we finished in like two 10.

And again, this was less than six, this was less than six months after my second surgery.

Ally Brettnacher: right? Yeah. That

Gretchen Hercamp: And then, and then in between, so I wanna say it was two weeks later, we ran the virtual option of the caramel and we, we did it all on the Monon. 'cause we knew we were gonna be running on the Monon for the mo,

mo.

Ally Brettnacher: Right.

Gretchen Hercamp: So we, there's like the rec center on the Monon. We, we park there and then we ran north up to, there's a park in Sheridan and then we turn back.

But we use that as like a slow training run. No one was setting pbs. We were just like, let's see what we can do because we're running a 50 K in two weeks. So like, let's just see what we can do. So in May we ran a half a [00:56:00] full and a 50 K. and that felt like.

oh my gosh,

Ally Brettnacher: in less, wait was it less than six

Gretchen Hercamp: So by the time it was all said and done, I think I had just crossed seven months of post op. So, I like really committed in 2025 'cause I, and it's great when you have people who like, support you and,

Ally Brettnacher: Totally.

Who are like, go for it. Yeah. And a husband like Ryan who's like, yeah, I'm in. I like running as

well.

Gretchen Hercamp: So, yeah.

and then I was like, well I did a spring training block and I've only ever trained for like one race at a time. So like, it was either training for the mini or training for the monumental. I never did two of those in one year. And then I just did all this because of the way of training block is I was like, I can treat these like training runs.

Absolutely. and then, and I was like, I wonder if I could do that in the fall. So I signed up for the Geist half Marathon in September, and then I signed up for the Monumental, so I could run the Monumental for a second time. And Bridget was like, look, I'll train with you, but I don't wanna commit to another race.

And, and she did. She came to Bloomington and [00:57:00] we did a 20 mile run heading into Monumental. She came and watched me finish at Geist, which was hillier than I expected.

Ally Brettnacher: It is Sneaky

Gretchen Hercamp: Hill. I was like, what the heck is this? Like, it, it was like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like I was, you'd go up and come down, you'd go up and come down.

Uh, that really snuck up on me 'cause I'm like, oh, it'll, Indianapolis is

Ally Brettnacher: Indianapolis Hills. What are you talking about? Yeah,

Gretchen Hercamp: No, it was, it was definitely hilly. So if you're considering doing Geist,

Ally Brettnacher: it's the Hilliest race we have, I think.

Well, in central

India,

Gretchen Hercamp: yeah. It was, but it was fun and it was like. It was big, but it was like small, but it, I had like, it wasn't like the size of like a monumental, it wasn't the size of the mini.

and that area is so beautiful, like that Fisher's area by guys, like, one of my girlfriends lives up there and I'm like, you have such, you have access to such beautiful, like, locations. Like it was, that was a, so that was September, two days before the guy half marathon. I know, I, I, I, I share a lot about the corporate challenge, the YMC corporate challenge.

Yeah. It's kind of like a good segue into that [00:58:00] because, When I started at, I worked, so I worked for the IU Foundation, uh, which is the fundraising arm of iu. So, anytime you're looking to give a scholarship, usually you're working with someone who's both connected with the university and with the IU Foundation.

And, I started working there in 2017 at the welcome center. So I was like the receptionist and then have worked in different roles since then. And, one of my favorite things and it's a great way to connect with people you don't usually work with is the YMC corporate challenge. Once upon a time I used to work for the Y I got to live.

It's funny you mentioned like me growing up kind of poor, poor, kind of poor, poor, was I got to live vicariously through the YMCA being a camp counselor at like 18 because when we were school ages, especially after my parents got divorced, We learned how to cook ramen noodles on an open range stove heading into the third grade.

So like, I'm not talking about like the fancy cups, styrofoam cups, which aren't really that fancy, but like we had like the little bricks of noodles and my mom had an open [00:59:00] range stove. There was a lot of trusts. Uh, we all, it was like everyone was kind of in survival mode. So like there's a lot of appreciation I have for like, the sacrifices my parents made, but I think about that and think about being a parent now and being like.

Oh, like I love Miles so much, but I'm glad that like we have resources that I didn't have as a kid and, um, which is so important 'cause I think about the why and they have an annual campaign every year, to help people with financial aid so they can have family memberships and then it helps fund, swim lessons, which are, I mean, that's a lifesaving class.

Absolutely. and then it gives a chance to be kids, whether through giving parents financial aid to support before and after school programming or summer day camp. Um, which again was so much fun to work in as a counselor. And I was eventually a director of youth development at the Muncie YMCA and like, those years were so impactful, especially like as a parent now.

Like I look back on those years, I'm like, I don't know. How [01:00:00] I, like how I did it, but like, I'm so glad I did. And, , but I think about, you know, where I work now and there being kind of like a full circle moment when I learned that they participated in Monroe County's corporate challenge. I have like the, you know, the sentimental value of it having worked for the y but I also am a very competitive person.

Not because I'm like the world's best, best athlete, but I'm like, if I can just show up and like place in my age group, I am like totally fine with that. And like, they have archery. Like we, there's an archery range called Parkers and Spencer. And like, so we go and like, and they donate their time and their space for the, for the YMCA corporate challenge.

And like that's become like one of my favorite things. I feel like Kane, I'm sure the people at Parker's would like. Roll their eyes at me so hard, but like, that's one of my favorite events. But the top event for me has to be the 5K, not because it's easy 'cause it's like the hilliest damn 5K course I've ever run.

but like the first year I ran it. I was 36 [01:01:00] weeks pregnant with Miles.

Ally Brettnacher: Right? Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: And I was like more of an elliptic girl, elliptical girl at that point. So like I wasn't like running consistently and I ran that thing with the full belly. And this last year. He ran with me and he runs, so I guess I mentioned Ryan's from Seymour.

they have a 5K every year, and the last three years he's run it. And this was the first year he didn't stay with me. I also rolled my ankle hard. he took off. He wanted to be up by where Ryan always is. Um, but I ended up rolling my ankles so hard this year. I'm like, I, I don't wanna blame miles, but I was like, if I were just like, if he and I were just out for a little jog.

Uh, so I was really worried that I wasn't gonna be able to do monumental because I rolled my ankle. So I like fell and I busted my knee. I mean, I eventually finished, but it sucked. but I think about like the corporate challenge and being able to do that with my kid. Yeah. Um, and, and he plays basketball for the Y and he takes swim lessons through the Y and Sure, We [01:02:00] don't necessarily like benefit from, financial aid, but like I think about like the kids he's grown close to who probably do, and not that it's my business or anyone else's business who benefits from that, but I think like showing up for our community in that way. And I'm grateful to work for an organization that is committed in that way.

Yeah. and so I'm like the biggest cheerleader for the corporate challenge, so I'm like annoy my colleagues. I'm like, did you sign up for something? Because like, I think at one point they have like ure, like you don't have to be an athlete to do it, you just have to like show up. Yeah. You just have to like show up.

They have trivia, like the Monroe County YMC does a good job of it. It used to be like a month long commitment and so they'd have different events in the evenings, but they like shove it, they condense it down to like two solid, it's like 11

Ally Brettnacher: would be so fun. I love games. I'm so competitive. I would thrive.

Gretchen Hercamp: is. and I'm sure hope other like YMCAs do the corporate challenge. 'cause I think it's a great way to get, and we have a lot of like, pharmaceutical companies in Bloomington's. Like IU doesn't, I think usually the Kelly School might have a team participate, but [01:03:00] like we have like Catalent down there and then we have

one of the big like GLP one, manufacturers.

they have a location now. They participate in the corporate challenge this year. it's just a fun way to like compete. I guess. All of us work like office jobs. Some of us like run or have other hobbies, but, it's fun and it's a good, again, it raises money for those programs so it opens up access to people who wouldn't.

like a young Gretchen, uh, who could have benefited from summer day camp instead of learning how to cook, , ramen noodles on an open range stove. So, man,

Ally Brettnacher: Man. I don't know. That gave you some of your grit and toughness though. I'm sure. That's

Gretchen Hercamp: We had, we had a neighbor that would call

And

lovingly called those like neighborhood urchins because like we, and like growing up and knowing what that would be like now, like he would just kinda like joke around and he would, he's really a really nice guy.

He would say it in like a jokey way, but I'm like, we kind of were like, we just kind of like floated to like different friends' houses snack. Yes. Yeah. I [01:04:00] mean, the first, I remember like going to my friend Paulina's house and having like pita bread for the first time being like, this is like, I feel like I'm like royalty, eating pita bread and like, it's like a, like a favorite snack now.

Like, yeah. But thinking about you know, and I'm so grateful that, you know, we grew up in the nineties, so it was like a little different than it is now where we did have like. Childhood friends in the neighborhood and we were always, welcome in one way or another in someone's house. but yeah.

But, it's crazy and so crazy. Yeah. But yeah, but honestly, like, I'm grateful for, I mean, if, if you have to be grateful for issues in your childhood, it gives you perspective on what you would do differently as parent too. Absolutely. So, or like how you wanna show up for your community if you aren't a parent.

Right. Because there are a lot of people who, whether they can or decide, can't have kids or decide they don't wanna have kids who are equally like, committed to the success of, their communities

Yeah. And like,

especially like education.

Ally Brettnacher: I'm just like trying to process to the timing of all this [01:05:00] and how condensed of a time period it really is. And also having a young kid at this time, and I have, my oldest daughter is gonna be eight, or no, she's eight. Shoot, she's gonna be nine in July.

So similar age as miles. Yeah. And yeah, like those years, it is just all hard. Yeah. I mean, it's all hard, but just thinking of all that you went through alongside, not to mention Ryan also going through his own stuff alongside, , it's just, crazy. I remember after meeting you, just thinking, not just, but like, yeah, you're a marathon or you're a runner.

Cool. You know, I remember he had a twin, you know, you're like, okay. And then seeing what you and Ryan shared on Facebook and being like, what? Like,

Gretchen Hercamp: surprise,

Ally Brettnacher: surprise. We're just like a, a mess of medical issues and we're, we're here at this marathon. I mean, I think it's, it's really, and he amazing.

Gretchen Hercamp: he prd at that marathon. Oh

Ally Brettnacher: my gosh.

Gretchen Hercamp: So, like, yeah. And well, and he, I think it's so funny 'cause he ran Chicago in 2013 or 2014. we met at Ball State in 2005 as [01:06:00] freshmen. , The dorm I lived in are, uh.

food, air. Our cafeteria was like renovate, being renovated. So like we had to go to Noyer at Ball State. And so we had some friends that all kind of lived in the same area. We met, we became Facebook friends and we'd like every once in a while, like write on each other's walls. But like, I dated someone in high sch in high school that I was with in, in college that I was with in that my freshman year.

And then each of us kind of had a string of serious relationships. And then in 2015 we both ended long-term relationships in mid 2016. I noticed he was liking all my shit on Instagram and I was like, do people really call you Ace? Like, I sent him a, a Facebook

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, I, this reminds me, I need to know about where that comes from. Yes.

Gretchen Hercamp: he says people call him Ace.

No

calls him. I mean, some people call him Ace, uh, in, in like a play. Jokey. Jokey, okay. Um, but no, but like I, that's like my favorite story because like. we just stayed Facebook friends and then he and sometimes like, I don't wanna say that, like [01:07:00] that's always the best way to go, but I was like, I was single at the time and I was like, oh, like he likes that I'm really into like musical theater.

'cause I was living in Muncie at the time and was, and I was in three back-to-back shows at the Mon Mun Civic Theater. I was in Mary Poppins, nine to Five and Beauty and the Beast. And in nine to five, it takes place in the eighties, you have this amazing giant hair. My friend Steven did all of our, like, our hair for it, and and my hair was really long, so it was like huge.

Like, he, he gave me a Maine, like, I felt like a video vamp it. But like he, my aunt started liking all my stuff and I'm like, I don't know it. After an opening show, you usually go out for like a celebration. And I remember being like a beer and like, you know, I, I'm just gonna send him a message. I like, do people really call you the Ace?

And he was living in Bloomington. I was living in Muncie and. Sure enough, like first it was just like messaging on Facebook and then it was, Hey, well let's switch numbers and let's FaceTime. We, before we, wow. So before we even went on our first date, we FaceTimed for [01:08:00] like three or four hours.

And I was just like, oh, this is so easy. Like, this is so easy. And it's not like, and it's so funny because I knew he was a runner, but like, he was so attuned to, what I was doing. And I think in previous relationships I had adapted myself to whatever and, and kind of like muted myself.

And at this point I felt like I was like living like as my truest self. And this was someone who was genuinely attracted to that. and at first it was a, I think he showed up to my final show at nine to five. He had got I Snapshot, you could tell when someone screenshot something, he had screenshotted, oh my god.

Uh, me in like full, costume with giant hair. And he and his friend Adam had gotten it. Screen printed onto a T-shirt and he showed up to my final show like that and I was like, oh, ooh. Like, even though, like Ryan and I had been like talking a lot at this point, and like, I was just like, this is a lot that I wasn't anticipating.

This is, this is kind of uncomfortable. that

kinda gave me pause, but I was like, no. Like the only reason it feels uncomfortable [01:09:00] is because no one's ever supported you in that way. except for my sisters who are also like musical theater freaks. but he showed up in a way that no one had else had showed up for me before.

So like, when we started dating, it was just like easy. It was kind of a pain because we were two hours

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Why was he in

Gretchen Hercamp: because he was a teacher and, and I was working and actually at that point I had left the Y and was working for Ball State But I was like, we can make this work.

Like this is no big deal. I mean, I worked during the week and then I have rehearsals, but like he would come up every weekend and like, he was on summer break too, so like he would come up for long periods of time and I was like, this is awesome. And then six months later we were, we got engaged on a cruise and then, , less than a month later, or sorry, just over a month later, we found out we were pregnant and planning an October wedding and getting an October baby.

And then, and I found out I was pregnant a week after I had accepted my position at the foundation. So like, life just happened, but I was also like 30. Like, it's one thing when it happens, [01:10:00] it can be a little jarring, but like, there was a lot of life lived in my twenties. Yeah. So when it ha when things started to fall into place at 30, I was like,

Ally Brettnacher: okay,

Gretchen Hercamp: here we go.

Like, wow, this is what I wanted. It just happened in a, an unconventional way. Like Bridget and her husband had been together since we were seniors in high school, so a summer before our senior year in high school. So like, It's so funny how things just kind of like work out the way they do. And like we were just Facebook friends.

it's not like we saw, we, we after like meeting for the first time in at Ball State. It's not like we ever took cla. , I guess at one point he had a class with Bridgette, but he thought it was me and he was like, well, something's wrong with Gretchen. Like she's not, um, but um, it's just funny how like, sometimes timing does work out.

, And now when we got married and we did the, for better, for worse, for richer, for poor, for, you know, and sickness and in health, I don't think we expected to have so many in sickness days. Um, but it's also been like really great. Like like running, we are very different philosophies with running.

but I feel like [01:11:00] he, I dunno,

these health issues could have been. Way worse with the wrong person. And he has shown up in so many different ways and, kind of like muting his own issues to just show up for me. So it goes beyond like showing up for nine to five in a shirt screen per printed with my face on it.

, But it is how he's like chosen to show up for us. he has his, his own story. But, , So yeah, that brings us to like 2026.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: Which is crazy. We're in February already.

Ally Brettnacher: I know. That is wild. it's crazy. And I feel like it's February and then all of a sudden it's March.

And then it's spring. Yeah. So that's good. Um, okay. Well before we do the end of the podcast questions though, I do wanna talk about the Hoosiers. Yeah. I assumed that you had gone to IU because you live in Bloomington and you went to the game in, in Atlanta.

Yeah. And so I just assumed that, and so it's interesting how you ended up there,

Gretchen Hercamp: I was, I was an nontraditional student. I dropped out of Ball State because

Oh you did? It's

to be indecisive, , especially when you're poor. so I would, I dropped out and for [01:12:00] a while, and then would take classes here and there through like WGU or Ivy Tech. and then when I started working for the foundation, they had tuition reimbursement.

So I finished my degree online in 2021. Wow. and, but Ryan has his master's in special education from IU and, we've, it's great being townies 'cause we're really, we like. Being able to have access to going to sports and, and yeah, so in 2022, it would've been like late winter, early spring, he signed, he got us season tickets for the 22 season, which was great 'cause it was such a distraction 'cause we had so many health issues happening.

So we had that obviously less, less of, less than winning seasons in 22 and 23. But 24, we went undefeated at home in 24. We went undefeated at home in 25. So we had major FOMO because we didn't go to the Big 10 championship, which was, you know, an hour away. we had FOMO because we wanted to go to the Rose Bowl, but we were dealing with so much stuff with Benny.

So it was like, we can't really justify the cost. [01:13:00] so as soon as as soon as we beat Alabama in the Rose Bowl, , Ryan was like. I'm getting tickets to the Peach Bowl, and I was like, okay. We, it's like spontaneity. We didn't have, when we had Benny, because we would've had to figure out who was gonna watch him.

Right. And, and being able to leave the house on such short notice. And, so that was, that allowed us to have a little bit of spontaneity. So we, I was like, I, we go to Hilton Head every year so I could make that drive to Atlanta in my sleep. And, there were so many Indiana plates driving.

It was, it was really cool. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so we got to go to the Peach Bowl and that was like an experience, like, we'll never forget, and Miles came with us like Miles is a huge IU fan and he's like born into

Ally Brettnacher: amazing. Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: and it's. Great being in town all the time, I love the electricity when the students come back, but summertime, running in Bloomington is wonderful, is wonder is, wonderful.

I mean, hills suck regardless of where you are, but like, I get to run around these [01:14:00] like athletic complexes and, and see

it's a

Ally Brettnacher: beautiful

Gretchen Hercamp: it is, it really is. Yeah. Uh, I feel really fortunate to live in Bloomington, but yeah, we are, we are big Hoosier fans. I I feel like we might get priced outta season tickets this year because obviously there's a demand.

Um, I hope not, but no, it, even if we do, like, we would like to go to the big house and watch him play Michigan just because like it's the big house. Like, and, and especially with, I know curing that he's such a cool guy and like it's just, it's been so much fun to be around and watch, watch all of it happen.

Yeah. Um, I feel like

Ally Brettnacher: As a fan, like

Gretchen Hercamp: The understatement of the century is saying like, oh yeah, he's great. Or like, this has been exciting 'cause like it's been like life changing. Like it's changed the culture at IU and as frustrating it is for like to like, welcome fair weather fans. Um, we, there are a lot of us that were here before.

Um, but it's also been great for the university. And I think it's, where people like, you know, people wanna talk [01:15:00] about NIL and talk about, oh, donations to athletics, but like athletics is like the gateway to the rest of the university and there's so many areas of need in the uni. We could, I could spend a whole another hour talking about that.

'cause that's a part of like what I do at the foundation. So, but yeah, it's been such a great experience to be able to, go as like members of the community, but also as like fans. Yeah. And see it through the eyes of miles.

Um,

Ally Brettnacher: oh yeah. Even more special.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: So congrats Hoosiers. Yeah. I'm, my husband's a boiler maker, and so I made a sweatshirt that was black and I put the Indiana logo on it in gold to just kind of be funny people, people, Indiana people were kind of still salty, but I'm like, it's a joke. Like I'm, I'm trying to say like I'm supporting iu, I, you know, go sports.

I'm so

Go sports.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: For everybody.

But yeah. That's so cool.

Gretchen Hercamp: pick the weirdest things to get

Ally Brettnacher: all right. I'm just like, yeah, it's, you know, whatever. So. Okay. I'm gonna ask you the end of the podcast questions. you've just had so much happen in your life that we could talk for even [01:16:00] longer than we have. So the first question that I ask everybody is, what is your favorite running mantra and or song?

Gretchen Hercamp: Uh, well, I think I could do two. Like, well, I think this song depends on like the day and what kind of run.

That's fair. Um, but yeah, so, like just keep going, which is simple enough because even if you have to slow down or you just have to like, stop and breathe, what's your next step? just keep moving. And I feel like that has been applied to every aspect of my life. Um, but like my, running song, again, it depends, like, it depends on how I'm feeling, but I would say like, I almost always feel like I'm being brought back in either with, running up that hill, um,

Ally Brettnacher: Ooh, yeah.

From Stranger

Gretchen Hercamp: from Stranger Things by Kate Bush and then I can do it with a broken heart.

Like

Ally Brettnacher: love the rhythm of that song. Yeah, for sure.

Gretchen Hercamp: And I feel like I can like ting, like I, like I dance to it when

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah. Okay.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. And then what is your next finish line or milestone?

Gretchen Hercamp: Uh, the next one will be Carmel.

Ally Brettnacher: Awesome.

Gretchen Hercamp: Uh, [01:17:00] we've also signed up for the full mill. Full mill. Sold out. We, we got in right as it sold out.

Like, I think they were, yeah, I think they were like, I think there were like 16 slots when Ryan registered as

like,

Ally Brettnacher: oh, he's gonna do it

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah, he's doing it again. So

Oh, he

Ally Brettnacher: did it.

Gretchen Hercamp: year. Yeah. Bridget and I are gonna do the Triple Crown again. Um, we're gonna do Carmel, the Mini and the full Mo.

Um, and then I've got big plans for the fall. If I'm still not pregnant by like June, then I'm gonna commit to, Geist again. Monumental again. And then there's the Jackson County a hundred K Oh boy. Which is a trail race and I, so

I've

Ally Brettnacher: got a

Gretchen Hercamp: like, the whole

Ally Brettnacher: couple of friends I'll introduce

Gretchen Hercamp: Yeah, like the whole year to train for that.

I like to work up to that. And I have like trails in my back, not in my backyard, but, you know, down the street that I could like hop on, so. So if it's not pregnant by 40, then it'll be, I'm gonna do a hundred K by 40.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Okay. When's your 40th birthday?

Gretchen Hercamp: December

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. So I turned 40 in July.

Gretchen Hercamp: Okay. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Here we are. I know. So I had toyed [01:18:00] around with the idea. Still kind of am because shout out to TJ Daley and Isha, but the full Mo or prayer and fire, I've just been more and more intrigued by, especially just over the time I've had this podcast, because I've talked to so many people about it and I've cheered.

I now, I've spectated at both of 'em and so I'm just kind of getting a little antsy about it. So like, I wanna be an ultra marathoner now, and I never, ever thought that I would want to go further than 26.2 miles.

Gretchen Hercamp: The full MO was my favorite race of last year, and I did five races last year. The Full MO was my favorite because it was, well, and I get to see you. I love Andrew Girls on the on.

Yeah. You know, that was the last aid station before

down.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. It was mile 27. Mm-hmm.

Gretchen Hercamp: it was, like, just to like feel that support, but like, it's just such a different beast. Like, even though it's, it feels like a road race because you're on like a paved trail. It's not, and like there are times where you're like, oh my gosh, how far am I away from like the nearest PE participants?

And luckily I've bridge Bridget with me the whole

time. Right. That's so

Ally Brettnacher: nice.

Gretchen Hercamp: you know, she and I are talking about like the Hunger Games or, you [01:19:00] know, we're talking about like. You know, pop culture during like a training at like a long run. but like the, the aid stations and like the community. So I am, my onboarding buddy at the foundation.

She, even though she was at the foundation before I started and then left and has come back, she did the Jackson County hundred K last year. And so she and I were talking about it briefly this week and I was just like, like there's just a, it's like a different level of community mm-hmm. At these races.

Like even if you don't belong to the Fisher's Run Club, like they welcome you with open arms at their aid

station. Oh,

Ally Brettnacher: that, that aid station.

Gretchen Hercamp: And it was just, that's one thing I'm a little envious of, of Indianapolis and Fishers and, and Carmel is like, I haven't really, I'm not really plugged into the Bloomington running community.

Yeah. But like seeing like these run clubs just show up for like the community is, it's really cool. And it, it's a place of like belonging for anybody. Like you don't have to. Go out and set, records to

part

Ally Brettnacher: a club.

Gretchen Hercamp: of the club. Like you're just welcome. And that's really important, [01:20:00] especially as we try to like create this space for anybody.

Like, I think that's why I was so like drawn to like your podcast and like your stories. Like you're trying to like showcase everybody of all like paces and abilities and, and then like your work with Ainsley's Angels, like

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, you gotta do that at the mini sometime.

Gretchen Hercamp: I I,

Ally Brettnacher: maybe next year or maybe well after if you, I hope you have another baby by then.

Gretchen Hercamp: Well and if not, like, I mean we have this wonderful little 8-year-old that is a spitfire and Really, he's so funny. He is so funny. and like he would be a great big brother, but I'm also like, you know, we're gonna.

IMG_8480: gonna, we, we're

Gretchen Hercamp: We're gonna close the chapter. So if we do, then that'll be awesome. And if I do get pregnant, then that would probably be my fir one of my first races back.

if I, am able to get pregnant between now Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: and then. Yeah.

Gretchen Hercamp: And, and June, in June, we're gonna like, close the door. just because like we, I don't wanna be in limbo,

That's

heading into my forties. Yeah. Uh, even though there's, you know, forties is like the new [01:21:00] thirties, so.

IMG_8480: Totally.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Gretchen, thank you so much for doing this. I'm so glad you said yes. and I'm so glad you came here and we got to do it in person. So good to see you.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yes. It's good to see you too. Thank you. And thank you for this platform and then the work you do to like, support, the running community here, is awesome.

Thank you. So thank you.

Ally Brettnacher: you. Thank you. And thank you to everybody who's listened.

Gretchen Hercamp: thank you.

Ally Brettnacher: And happy running.

Gretchen Hercamp: Yep, happy running.

Ally Brettnacher: If you enjoyed this episode of Finish Lines and Milestones from Sandy Boy Productions. Please share rate review. I ask you that 'cause it helps other everyday runners find the show. And I can't do this without you. So if you haven't yet rated the show or you haven't subscribed, please, please go do that.

You can also find me on Instagram. I'm Ali t Brett runs, that's A-L-L-Y-T-B-R-E-T-T runs. And if you like this show, you might wanna check out other shows in the Sandy Boy Podcast Network. We just announced this week that the Out and Back podcast, which is with Rory [01:22:00] Linkletter and Jacob Thompson, both professional marathoners.

I can't believe that I'm in a podcast network with these guys, but their show out and back is now part of the Sandy Boy Productions family. So go check that out and you can go to sandy boy productions.com to see all of the other shows, and I will talk to you again next week. Bye.