Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 158: Dennis Mullen - The marathon doesn't owe you anything

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Guest: Dennis Mullen @dmullen11

Show Notes:

Dennis Mullen ⁠and I met during our shared time on the board for ⁠Beyond Monumental⁠, the organization behind the CNO Financial Indianapolis Monumental Marathon.

During this episode, sponsored by ⁠Noogs⁠, ⁠Batch⁠, and ⁠Huug⁠, we talk about:

• How Dennis found running in grad school after he couldn't keep up with his wife for even a mile — and how that humbling moment turned into sub-3 marathons 😅
• Winning a small half marathon in Noblesville in 2018 (don't look up the time, he says) and walking into his first marathon with way too much confidence
• Going out in a 1:24 for the first half of his debut marathon and... paying for it dearly in the second half (final time: 3:50)
• Coming back a year later at Monumental and running 2:59 — his first BQ — with a completely different mindset
• Qualifying for Boston three times and still not making it to the start line (the buffer zone is a cruel mistress)
• A herniated disc, degenerative disc disease, two Disney trips in a back brace, and a year lost to injury — and why he still considers that stretch one of his more impressive stretches of life
• His plan to chase a BQ at a Last Chance race in Geneva, IL this fall — small field, flat course, and they treat you like an elite
• Carmel Marathon being postponed two years in a row and the Brew City Marathon in Milwaukee saving the day last year
• Being on the board for Beyond Monumental and what volunteering at a race does for your perspective as a runner
• Running on the Zionsville Rail Trail (as a card-carrying member of the Zionsville Run Club who has never actually shown up 😂)
• Nutrition chat: Maurten gels, beet juice, salt tabs, and the nerd gummies pipeline
• His walkout song: Won't Get Fooled Again by The Who (they play it at Colts games — you know it)
• Project Hail Mary is going on the audiobook list whether

Previous Guests Mentioned

• ⁠Lauren Gaudion⁠ - Episode 106
• ⁠Mike Vollmer⁠ - Episode 156
• ⁠Salvador Escamilla⁠ - Episode 77
• ⁠Johanna Kitchell⁠ - Episode 114

Sponsor Details

• ⁠Noogs⁠ - Use code ALLYB for 15% off your first order + free shipping on 2+ cartons (lower 48 only)
• ⁠Batch⁠ - Use code FINISH for 30% off sitewide
• ⁠Huug⁠ - Use code ALLYB for 15% off (combine with buy 3 get 1 free!)

Other Links

• ⁠I'll Have Another with Lindsey Hein - Live Event Tickets⁠
• Follow Dennis on Instagram ⁠@dmullen11⁠
• Follow me on Instagram ⁠@allytbrett_runs⁠
• ⁠Subscribe to Finish Lines & Milestones weekly newsletter⁠

This is a ⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠ podcast.

Episode Transcript

Dennis Mullen: And it's like, I'm not fast enough to do this. It's just like, yes you

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, you are, you don't have to be fast.

Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: just competing with yourself at the end of the day.

Ally Brettnacher: Right. It's not

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast for everyday runners. I'm your host, Ali Brett Knocker, and if you run, you're a runner and every runner has a story. Join me each week as I share these stories and we celebrate finish lines and milestones together.

This episode is brought to you by the Noogs. Make your run more fun challenge of the week.

One thing I did this week to make my run more fun was I tried out a new route, actually, it's a route that Dennis and I talked about during this episode that I hadn't tried yet since the sidewalk was completed by my house. I ran from my home in West Carmel all the way to adorable downtown Zionsville, and it was awesome.

It I often find that the diff a different route can really make a run. A lot more enjoyable than running the same out and back, or same loop time and time again. So Highly recommend switching it up [00:01:00] if you can.

Another way to make your run more fun is by fueling with Noogs. They taste like sour gummy candy, but they are designed for performance with quick digesting carbs, essential electrolytes, and an easy to chew texture. You can use code alley ALLYB for 15% off of your first order, and you can get free shipping when you grab two or more cartons, lower 48 only.

I also recommend what I'm gonna call the Ally combo, which includes my two favorite flavors, lemon zinger, and electric Watermelon. You can mix 'em together, that much more fun. Click the link in the episode description to grab yours now, and here is to having more fun on the run. And now it is May in the city of Indianapolis. If you are from India or know anything about Indy. May is it for us? It is so exciting and I can't wait to kick off May this weekend with the 50th running of the Ind It'll be my 18th time running this iconic race. I did a mini episode with Lindsay Hein that dropped earlier this week if you're interested in a little bit more of a course preview, and it'll be my 70th half marathon, And the day couldn't [00:02:00] be looking more perfect. It'll be my third time running with an organization called Ainsley's Angels. So look for the hot pink while you're out on the run. We are also hosting a live event on May 1st Friday. Perhaps when you listen to this, when it comes out when three 30 to five 30, there's a link to tickets.

In the show notes, we have em. Grace Hurley, An American record holder and US champion. We have Courtney Frerichs, who is an Olympian. she is a world and Olympic medalist. And then we have Drew Hunter, also a US champion. Really excited to hear from these three and get some inspiration for race day.

So if you haven't yet and you're a last minute kind of person, go snag those tickets while you can.

and then over the years I've had a lot of episodes where we talk about the Indy Mini. I wanted to highlight two for you here in case you still want some more race inspiration, or you're just feeling the month of May. There is an episode 1 0 6 with Lauren Gian, who heads up marketing at Aero McLaren.

She ran the Indy Mini a couple years ago with Tony Canon, and I got to interview her about that experience. Tony is coming back this year for the [00:03:00] 5K where he's running with his family. I don't know if Lauren's gonna be running alongside him, but if you see her, make sure you say hi to her as well. And then also episode 1 56, which is just a couple weeks ago with Mike Volmer.

Mike is part of the alumni club for the 500 festival, meaning he has run this race. Every single year. This year will be his 50th. So that was a really fun interview as well. So go check those out. And now without further ado, I have my conversation with Dennis Mullen. Dennis and I met during our shared time on the board for Beyond Monumental the organization behind the CNO Financial Indianapolis Monumental Marathon.

So we talk certainly about that, but really a lot about Dennis's running journey. We recorded on Marathon Monday when Boston Marathon happens, and so we talked about how he still hasn't made it to the streets of Boston, though he's qualified a few times and we talk about that and getting faster and finding running.

Later in life, so I know you're really gonna enjoy this conversation with my friend Dennis.

Dennis? Welcome.

Dennis Mullen: Hi Allie. Thank you for having [00:04:00] me today.

Ally Brettnacher: Thanks for coming.

Dennis Mullen: looking forward to this for a long time.

Ally Brettnacher: it's a long time coming. Yeah. And it's Marathon Monday. So what better time to record a podcast about running?

So we were talking before we hit record that you've never been to Boston.

You've never run Boston, I should say. I've

Dennis Mullen: been to Boston a few times.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I was gonna say I No. Running Boston, which is crazy. I would've assumed that you would've run.

Dennis Mullen: So well thank you for assuming that, that makes me feel better. You fast. I

Ally Brettnacher: I look at you, I'm like, Dennis is fast. So he's probably run Boston.

Right. And then,

Dennis Mullen: it hasn't worked out for me yet. I have hit a Boston qualifying time a few times actually. And just life has gotten in the way once there's this, thing of like an additional buffer that I'm sure you're aware of where, you know, they can only. accommodate a certain number of participants in their field, so they've gotta take that initial time and sort of whittle it down and mm-hmm.

I've always just been one of those runners that sneaks in right under like 2 59 when it was three hours and yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Sub three marathoner. That's a big deal.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. It's not easy.

Ally Brettnacher: Not at [00:05:00] all. when was the first time you qualified for Boston?

2019. Okay.

Dennis Mullen: At the monumental.

Ally Brettnacher: At Monumental,

Dennis Mullen: yeah. Second attempt.

Okay. At it first was one of those just colossal failures that you, you hear about,

was that also at monumental?

It was, yeah. So I, I didn't give up, but yeah, 2018, decided to go for it and, you know, it was just using the training program, I think like Matt Ebersol puts together for Okay. For everyone. You get emailed once you registered and it was going great.

Fitness was incredible. I actually ran my PR for a half, I think two months before the

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, okay.

Dennis Mullen: It's like a very small half marathon in Noblesville that no longer exists.

Ally Brettnacher: I've done that one

Dennis Mullen: before. Yeah. The Noblesville? Yeah. Mini or something. I won. Oh, in 2018.

Ally Brettnacher: That's really cool.

Dennis Mullen: Congratulations. I mean, don't, don't look up what my time was.

It was unimpressive for a victory, but

Ally Brettnacher: impressive to me,

so

Dennis Mullen: fine. It was a PR still.

Ally Brettnacher: That's really

Dennis Mullen: cool. So

I had that false sense of confidence.

Ally Brettnacher: they have tape for you to break?

Dennis Mullen: You know, I don't remember if they had tape or not. I remember just [00:06:00] being in the pain cave really, really bad and I was following a police motorcycle up until the very end and I was, it kind of let me get closer as we were approaching the finish line.

And I just remember like, I'm just sucking on this, police officer's

Ally Brettnacher: Oh,

Dennis Mullen: Oh, right. The whole time. And then my mouth felt like I'd been sucking on a penny and I was like, this guy's gotta get outta my way eventually. Right. Like I can't stop. But So that's. Unfortunately, like the, the most vivid

memory I have of, of that head, you have a tr victory.

It's just like the, the ending couple miles pretty brutal with

Ally Brettnacher: Oh my gosh.

Dennis Mullen: the, uh, the motorcycle. Yeah. but yeah, that was great. And I go into November feeling really strong and I think I went out and like a 1 24 or 1 25 for that half. Wow. Just knowing I wasn't gonna keep that pace Right. For the whole race.

But like now I've got this great buffer zone and just that false narrative that so many runners, I think talk themselves into like, I'll go out fast and have a little bit of leeway to Right. Take my foot off the, off the gas. The

Ally Brettnacher: in [00:07:00] the bank.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Time in the bank. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Has, has, uh, torpedoed so many marathoners.

Ally Brettnacher: Right. I thought that's what you're supposed to do, but that's the opposite of what you're supposed to do. Who knew

Dennis Mullen: I wish Yeah. To go back in time.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: I knew coaching. Something to shake me and say, this is not, this is not how you approach

Ally Brettnacher: 26.

DENNIS M INTERVIEW: point.

Dennis Mullen: miles. This is, this is really bad. Yeah.

So anyways, my final time in 2018 ended up being like three 50. Okay. Just still not a terrible marathon time. And you know, when I look back on that failure, I also kind of view it as one of my more impressive. Like that's the thing, like when my kids ask me about my running career, like I, I think that will be one of the ones that I point to is like, this is a good life lesson.

You don't give up, you keep going. I finish the thing. Even though that last, right, the second half would've been

Ally Brettnacher: how long then? That's like a brutal second

Dennis Mullen: It was like two hours or so. Yeah, two hours, 20. I don't what

I [00:08:00] walked and jogged and wanted to quit a million times. Right. And you didn't. But yeah, I made it through and just sort of recalibrated came back in 2019.

Hit that 2 59. Gosh. And it's just more, splits not so aggressive at the, the front half. And, um, it worked out.

Ally Brettnacher: Was that your second marathon Ever?

Second day ever. Wow.

Dennis Mullen: And then COVID.

Ally Brettnacher: well, and then of course, yeah. COVID messed everything up. Yes. But you took like almost an hour off of your time. That's crazy. Yeah. Wow. Lot different. Yeah. Did you just, your strategy going into the race was different?

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Much, much more healthy mindset going into it. I, I've got a, a long range plan here today, and I'm not gonna wreck myself in the first 10 k first half of this marathon. I need to make sure I, save some matches, as they say, for the right, the final half.

Mm-hmm. 10 K. 5K. And you know, I, I do recall I kind of came in on fumes as a lot of us do in marathons. Mm-hmm. But I was able to sort of keep a [00:09:00] steady steadier pace. I'm not a negative split guy. I'm, I'm still working on that. Yeah. I know that's doctor recommended, but

Ally Brettnacher: it is, but it's, it is tricky. Yeah. It sure is. I've done it before, but.

Dennis Mullen: but

Ally Brettnacher: It's definitely not an every single time kind of a thing. It's really

Dennis Mullen: hard mentally.

Ally Brettnacher: it is. Yeah. 'cause you want to Instead of trying to get faster when you're tired. Right. You wanna just be able to do well in the first half and then Yeah.

Be tired. And be able to be tired in the second half. Yeah. Makes sense.

Dennis Mullen: It does. Yeah. It's sort of counterintuitive. Mm-hmm. But you know, the one time I negative split, I told myself that is how I'm gonna run every race from now on. It was during the mini a few years ago. Okay. It's one of those mornings that was just really rainy and windy and it's like, I'm just gonna go out and have a good time.

I put putting aside all my goals for the day sort of situation. Mm-hmm. And by the time you got to the track. Which is the real fun part for everyone. Super fun. Whoever runs the mini

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: fun for a first time. That's true.

Ally Brettnacher: for [00:10:00] about five seconds and then you're like, oh, get me outta here. Yeah. This

Dennis Mullen: Yeah.

This is, this is sort of turning into a death march. Yes. so I get to the track and, you know, the weather's starting to clear, it's starting to turn into a more beautiful day and I had a lot of gas left in the tank and I just kinda let it rip and ended up with a really good time that year. And one thing that I would tell people about negative splits, I'm sure there's like all sorts of reasons why every coach everywhere says this is the way to do it, but like the mental aspect of you passing people versus you getting

Ally Brettnacher: Right.

Dennis Mullen: Getting passed at the end.

Ally Brettnacher: that's getting

passed, Absolutely.

Dennis Mullen: I think probably an underestimated. Reason why negative splits

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah,

Dennis Mullen: Yeah, that's true.

It just made the race, I think, more fun too. It's like, oh, that, that guy or gal looks like they're 30 or 40 yards ahead of me. I'm gonna go ahead and pick them off.

Right. You know?

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. And that helps time go by faster

Dennis Mullen: too. Yes.

Ally Brettnacher: Having something to, look at and go for for sure. So before you ran your first marathon in 2018, did you run other [00:11:00] races? When you were younger or growing up,

Dennis Mullen: No,

Ally Brettnacher: That was the first time you,

Dennis Mullen: no, no, not the first time.

Okay. Growing up, I ran the mini marathon in probably sixth or seventh grade. Wow. Okay. I think, and it was part of our school's program. I went across the street here to Carmel High School. Interesting. And junior high. Okay. And so they had a really cool program that, it's like a training program that you did during,

I had no idea.

Gym class. Yeah. I'm not sure if they still do it or not, but you know that half marathon was probably like three hours ally. I was not well in good running shape. I never ran competitively track or cross country. Okay. I did a lot of other sports growing up, but running was always one of those things that is just like annoying.

Yeah. To me it's like this is a necessary evil for my other fun sports. Yes. So it wasn't until later in life that I discovered my affinity. Mm-hmm. For it. And probably one of my regrets that I didn't do more of that cross

Ally Brettnacher: Same. I have the same, I was a soccer player growing

Dennis Mullen: up. Oh, Nice.

Ally Brettnacher: it was all punishment, [00:12:00] running long distance, so I hated it. Which, you know, now looking at that, you're like, well, no wonder people don't like running. They've, it was always a punishment, so why would you grow to like it?

Dennis Mullen: I know. So

Ally Brettnacher: it's weird. But eventually I found it too. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah.

How did you, how did you come into your love for running? Gosh,

DENNIS M INTERVIEW: uh,

Dennis Mullen: it was,

Ally Brettnacher: it was kind of a slow burn. I, I started in college for the wrong reasons, and then finally figured out that you could run for fun and not just to like, run off the beer.

Dennis Mullen: Ah, I was gonna say for the

Ally Brettnacher: the exercise, like for just to try to offset all the, what I did in college, but

yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Where did you go to undergrad?

Dennis Mullen: I went to DePaul University. Okay. In Green

Ally Brettnacher: like I did know that.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Okay. So I did, I had to retire from all my sports after high school, and I barely played sports in high school either. It's just, it was very difficult at Carmel

Ally Brettnacher: yeah. Carmel's

Dennis Mullen: 5,000 kids. If you're not a super elite athlete, probably not gonna work out. But my whole life I swam, I swam for the Carmel Swim clubs, so that's probably where a lot of my fitness [00:13:00] today derives from. And we did do a lot of land-based physical running and weightlifting type of things. They're, I think, probably ahead of their time on that.

Mm-hmm. Is a major part of their programming. So I swam, I played hockey, basketball. Football in high school for a little bit, but none of it I stuck with through the entirety of high school. Like swimming was probably my best sport. And in particular the breaststroke. Okay. The one where you look like a frog.

Yes. It's really good at that. Even like just for my age group. But you know, I was probably like the fifth or sixth best one on my team. Just 'cause how strong that Yeah. That program is

Ally Brettnacher: so did you, so Carmel Club, was that within the school? Or was that a

club?

Dennis Mullen: separate or that, okay. I think it was own separate thing until you got to high school.

Ally Brettnacher: Right?

Well 'cause Carmel's just again, so big that there's, they have to have other types of programs you can do. Otherwise you can't really play any sports.

Dennis Mullen: Right, yeah. Like intramural type

Ally Brettnacher: Role. Yes, yes, yes.

Dennis Mullen: Absolutely. So that's what I kept up with in both most of high [00:14:00] school. By the time it got to like, I'm not gonna play basketball on this team.

I could be on like the freshman B team if I wanted, but

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. You're like, eh, that's

Dennis Mullen: not really how I wanna spend. Yeah. My afternoons, so a lot of intramurals. Same in college. Just trying to keep up the fitness in, to your point, you know, burn off the extracurricular, right. Yeah. Activities. But that's really, I mean, that's how I started running too in grad school.

I, uh, I had met my wife at DePaul freshman year and

Ally Brettnacher: Wow. Freshman

Dennis Mullen: year? Yeah. So we've been together a long time. We were in the same dormitory.

Ally Brettnacher: Aw, that's adorable. So

Dennis Mullen: it was towards the end of freshman year, I wanna say. And she was a cheerleader at the time and had, unfortunately like fallen from the top of the pyramid Oh geez.

Or something. And pretty major issue fracture with her elbow.

Ally Brettnacher: That sucks

Dennis Mullen: she's in the cast and I just kind of went up and asked her about it. One.

Oh good. Like every, one night. And then

Ally Brettnacher: was, she's like, oh god,

somebody else asking

me about my arm. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. But I must have said something that stuck, so Yeah.

happy I did.

Yeah, for sure.

Um, but we stayed together all through [00:15:00] undergrad and then she went to grad school in Chicago. She's a physical therapist now. That's helpful and oh, very helpful for, although her best advice to me, I hope she doesn't listen to this part, is you need to go see an actual physical therapist who can help you with this.

She is an inpatient physical therapist at IU Methodist Hospital. Okay. works on the neurology floor, so she sees a lot of like stroke victims Gotcha. Bad car accidents. Okay. Not my inflammation of my knee because I decided to do 50 miles. Fair enough. Okay. You know, that sort of thing. Yeah. So I think it's a fair sort of, you need to go see someone who

Ally Brettnacher: you need to go, somebody who sees all the runners

Dennis Mullen: the time.

Yeah. Help you with your, your problem. And your problem is that you don't do enough str strength straining, by the way. That's basically what it comes down to. Yeah. Nor do you stretch. But, uh, anyways, as I, one day I visiting her in Chicago and she's always been very athletic. We decided to go for a run and I could not keep up with her ally for even a mile, and it was just so sad.

I kind of made the decision, I can't let [00:16:00] myself get this outta shape. I had no aspirations of being a marathon runner or going to Boston. It was just more like we talked

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah, I need to, I need to get myself back into a little bit of playing shape after, after college. So the rest is history. I mean, I did that for 10 years, ran a lot of like half marathons.

Okay. Five Ks, that sort of thing. But 2018, I think that first

Ally Brettnacher: marathon

was, it was the first marathon.

Dennis Mullen: was first time I dipped my toe in.

Ally Brettnacher: where'd you go to grad school?

Dennis Mullen: At IU downtown. For law school. Okay. Right. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. And so what were some,

Dennis Mullen: now McKinney. Sorry, I was blanking on the name.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. You're like, wait, they've, all that stuff.

Dennis Mullen: it used to be IU Indianapolis, but they're, they, they're particular, they want you to have somebody paid a lot of money to

Right. To have their

for it to be McKinney on it. So

Ally Brettnacher: Yes, exactly.

Dennis Mullen: Spaced it for a second. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: So, okay. What year do you think your first Indy mini was? you know?

Dennis Mullen: Well outside of that sixth or seventh grade program.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That's what I was thinking. When would you have been, that's a lot of math.

Dennis Mullen: Well, it probably would've been 98 or 99, [00:17:00] I guess. Yeah, that's a couple years before I started high school.

That's really cool. Yeah. Do

Ally Brettnacher: you have the medal?

Dennis Mullen: No. I mean, maybe my mom does.

I'd have to see if she's gotten a bin

Ally Brettnacher: I just wonder what they look like. I know the older ones I look into that you should.

Dennis Mullen: I'll bring it in next time. Yeah, right. It seems like something she might

Ally Brettnacher: for Yeah, maybe.

Dennis Mullen: but yeah. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. So then after the sixth or seventh grade

Dennis Mullen: one.

Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: When would you have done another mini.

Dennis Mullen: It would've been probably 2012 to 2015. I probably did it a couple times. Okay. At least. Alright. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: And now at that time, were you more, and I mean not three hours maybe, but were you more average versus like finishing top 500 kind of situation? Or were you naturally kind of fast as you started running?

Dennis Mullen: So it took me a minute to get some speed to me and that was basically just going out every day and trying to run a little further and a little faster. And that was just my whole secret sauce. I had, again, no formal training or plan. Wow. But it took me a while to get to being [00:18:00] like top 500 level, which is usually like around seven minute per

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. It's cooking that marathon. Mm-hmm.

Dennis Mullen: For Indy Mini. So I, I'm sure I've finished that once or twice outside of the top 500, but I've been fortunate enough to have some better times too. And yeah. Um, I know my most recent was like 2022, so I'm gonna make my triumphant return Good. Okay. Here in a couple, couple days, I guess.

And yeah, give it another whirl.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. A couple days is right and it'll be the 50th running, which is

Dennis Mullen: gonna be

really fun. I know. Very cool. Yes. Very cool. So hopefully I can crack that top 500 again. We shall see.

Ally Brettnacher: Well I think last year usually they have a separate medal for top 500 finishers, but I remember I told a previous guest of mine, Sal, that that was the case and I think he was doing the race for the first time.

Mm-hmm.

And he did not get another medal

Dennis Mullen: even though he was top 500. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: So that would be really weird if they, if they got rid of it.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. It'd be disappointing.

Ally Brettnacher: Right. But if they did, they probably heard from a lot of people, so surely then it'll be back.

Dennis Mullen: Well maybe he just

[00:19:00] like I

Ally Brettnacher: maybe he just spaced it and like didn't, I don't know.

Dennis Mullen: Well, and I wonder like, 'cause you know, everyone starts at different times so there's do they give Right. That's good. I always just kind of wondered this separately. Are they just giving the first 500 the cross. That doesn't necessarily mean you were top 500 correct. Necessarily.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. If you were like, somehow started further back, but you still flew, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't think about

Dennis Mullen: that. I remember, uh, I remember one time an IndyCar racer, like Tony Canon. Okay. Things started very last and like for charity, just like however many people I passed. Right. Or

Ally Brettnacher: Or Meb Meb. Kaluki did that

Dennis Mullen: too, Did he do that? Yes. Oh, he would passed everyone, right? Probably. Yes. I'm sure Tony passed a fair lot of people too.

He's super athletic, triathlon kind of guy, but yeah. That's cool. Mm-hmm.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Did you see Tony's coming back for the 5K this

Dennis Mullen: year? Is

Ally Brettnacher: he mm-hmm.

Dennis Mullen: right. I might Is his family, maybe I'll hop in and do both.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, are do you have goals for the mini

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. 1 25. Okay. Yep. That's just, yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: is that, would that be a PR, I'm assuming?

Dennis Mullen: No, no, no, no.

Ally Brettnacher: [00:20:00] Okay. What's your pr?

Dennis Mullen: That Noblesville one was 81 minutes.

Ally Brettnacher: She,

Dennis Mullen: yeah. I used to be fit.

Ally Brettnacher: Stop it. That's,

Dennis Mullen: No, I mean it's, you know this, it's all relative.

Ally Brettnacher: It is all

Dennis Mullen: That is a very unimpressive, like winning half marathon time. Like most people are gonna be 75, even 70 minutes when you're talking about winning halftime.

So I always try to keep that perspective and impart that on anyone who wants to get into it. And it's like, I'm not fast enough to do this. It's just like, yes you

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, you are, you don't have to be fast.

Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: just competing with yourself at the end of the

Ally Brettnacher: day. Right. It's not really, yes.

Dennis Mullen: Even though I say earlier, like it was fun picking people off as I'm running. Yeah. Well

Ally Brettnacher: 'cause

Dennis Mullen: it's fun.

It is. But it's, it's sort of a solo endeavor and that's Sure. That's how it should be viewed.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Have you, I'm sure you've seen, 'cause it's hard to not see, but the flack that Nike got for their walkers tolerated advertisement.

Yeah.

Which I feel like I shouldn't even talk about because then we're just talking more about Nike, but Yeah,

Dennis Mullen: it's like are they sponsored now?

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. [00:21:00] Right. But it, it is people.

Dennis Mullen: You

Ally Brettnacher: can walk, you can run like it's the same distance. Yeah. But, but relatively speaking and relative to the average person you are fast. So.

Dennis Mullen: Well, you know, we, we do a lot of work with the monumental mm-hmm. And the faces that you see who come across the finish line at two 12 last year. Yeah. Yeah. In the faces that I saw that came across in six hours, looked the exact same. Yeah. Exhausted the heck. Yeah. I mean, just gave their everything, put everything they had into it, and it's just like time doesn't matter.

Mm-hmm. I mean, it's just, you did a marathon. Right. That's how all that, like people ask you, I'm sure all the time, what's the average marathon time? No average marathon time. Right.

Ally Brettnacher: Like, who cares

Dennis Mullen: if you do a marathon, you are marathon by definition, you are not average. Yeah. That is not something that's an average

Ally Brettnacher: true person.

Dennis Mullen: Goes out and does 'cause it, you can't do it off the couch. Maybe like a small Yeah. 0.1% of really fit people can do that. Mm-hmm. But no matter what your fitness levels, you gotta put some effort and [00:22:00] training and thought and all that stuff. Mm-hmm. Nutrition Yeah. Into it. So yeah. That's, that's a more healthy way of looking at it.

Mm-hmm. Instead of, you know, what's, what's the best time which we get.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. So you gave me a good segue to monumental, because that's how we met Yeah. Was on the board for monumental, which you are still

Dennis Mullen: on.

I am. Yes.

Ally Brettnacher: And so how did you end up on the board?

Dennis Mullen: Yeah, great story. And I think it kind of shows the diversity of the board and that's one of the parts that makes it so great.

so I was a runner obviously, and at the time I was working for the Indiana Gaming Commission doing a lot of, casino regulatory oversight type of work. And one of the things that, that office. Does continues to do. Many people aren't aware of is they investigate like animal fighting that goes on in the state.

Ally Brettnacher: feel like we talked about

Dennis Mullen: briefly once Yeah. and

Ally Brettnacher: I was like, that is fascinating.

Dennis Mullen: A really sad and unfortunately happens more than people would think or like, obviously Yeah, geez. [00:23:00] But there's a great team of undercover law enforcement officers, they're employed by my old agency that go around and sort of infiltrate these really kind of dangerous, you know, think like almost cartel, like, right.

Ally Brettnacher: What kind of animals? Typically dogs

Dennis Mullen: fighting and rooster fighting or cock fighting. Fighting, right? Yeah, yeah. Are the two, yeah, two main ones that, that we saw. So anyways, we wanted to support that sort of endeavor and curbing that activity, identifying the types of entities who do it, because a lot of times yes, it is awful that they're fighting animals.

But that's not all these entities and gangs are, are doing. Right. There's a lot of drugs and violence and other things that are just not good. Yeah. Not good. So, can't remember what year this was probably 20 21, 20 22. working with our superintendent of law enforcement, you know, just trying to identify ways that we can work with legislators to help strengthen like the animal fighting [00:24:00] statutes and help our agents who go in and investigate these activities, process things more timely and just make their lives easier.

Okay. And when you do something like that, it's really important to get stakeholder buy-in and like as expert as our gaming agents were at investigating and, and pursuing these activities, like the animal piece of it, probably not their expertise. So we worked a lot with like the A-S-P-C-A.

Ally Brettnacher: and

Dennis Mullen: What used to be the Humane Society.

It's like Humane World now, I

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, I was like, it's not called

Dennis Mullen: that. Yeah. They changed names, but same principle. Okay. And so a person that I worked with from Humane Society was Samantha Chapman. So I dunno if you remember her. Oh yeah. She was also a lawyer. She worked at a, a big law firm

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I almost forgot about, she was on the board maybe for like

two months. Short

time when I

was there.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah.

Short timer. Uh, I think just like two or three years. Okay. Total.

Ally Brettnacher: crossed paths barely.

Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: But she was great, but super advocate for [00:25:00] animals and we worked together closely on Okay. On pushing some legislation that really helped I think for all that.

And of course she's a runner as well, being a lawyer and working with us. So we got chatting and she told me that, you know, by the way, I'm on this great board. It's called, beyond Monumental, and they do some of these races. And I said, oh, I'm familiar,

Ally Brettnacher: Yes. I've

Dennis Mullen: these races I've read at Fort Bend.

You know, they just acquired that race and Wow. Yeah. Run the monumental a number of times, including the full marathon, I think twice at that point. So I was like, yeah, of course. Put me in contact. And next thing you know, I'm, I'm on like a Zoom with Mike Herd and John style. Yeah. And just away we went. It's been fantastic.

It's one of my favorite things to do.

Ally Brettnacher: Such a fun group. It's a fun group. And just such a great organization.

Dennis Mullen: Oh, the best marathon. Oh. I mean, uh, all that goes into it. People would be shocked. all the infrastructure that you need to have in place. Yes. But the team there is just, I mean, you know, Jed and that whole squad mm-hmm.

it's really fantastic. So it's [00:26:00] fulfilling. And the biggest thing that I do as a board member really is just the volunteering on

Ally Brettnacher: this way.

Yes.

Dennis Mullen: Right. I mean, that's, that's the biggest piece. Just trying to help out wherever I can. And again, that's. a rewarding thing for me too. 'cause of course, getting to see all the finishers and be a part of it mm-hmm.

Definitely, inspires you quite a

Ally Brettnacher: bit.

It does. Well, and for me as a runner, it gives me such a deeper appreciation.

Oh yeah. For, like you said, all the moving parts, everything that has to happen for a race like that to happen. Yes. You're just like, wow. And I thought, why had I never, I never volunteered at a race

Dennis Mullen: before.

Yeah. Until same.

Ally Brettnacher: I joined Beyond Monumental. Which then I was like, man, I've done so many races and I've never even thought about volunteering at a race.

And I'm sure people listening are in the same boat, but

Dennis Mullen: you know, do

Ally Brettnacher: do it. Do it.

It's so

Dennis Mullen: come the Apex 5K

Oh yeah.

For the kids. For the kids.

When you see, I mean, it's how many buses? A million come for this? There's a million buses. Yeah. And you got Torchy now, which Torchy? I, I'm giving you full [00:27:00] credit. It might not have been

Ally Brettnacher: Not even close to

Dennis Mullen: my

idea. No. Okay. But I'm gonna give

you credit for it anyways. No one cares. No one's

Ally Brettnacher: is Carl, I think it was Carlton.

Carlton Or

Dennis Mullen: founder. Okay. He would,

Ally Brettnacher: who listens to this? So,

hi

Dennis Mullen: Carlton does. Oh, okay. Carlton's Totally Carlton's idea.

Ally Brettnacher: Uh,

Dennis Mullen: But no, I think you did a lot to help push that forward and that's like the, seeing the kids this last year with Torchy was the coolest thing ever.

Yeah. And they get to finish at Lucas Oil Stadium. I mean, you feel like football player running down the tunnel. Mm-hmm. Onto the field. So those kids are fast.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: It kids are really

fast. It's So fun to see them.

Yeah. Yeah.

It was super, I mean it's just will totally change your perspective on everything.

So. Agreed. Yeah. Go volunteer, be a part of it. I think it'll only serve to inspire you to agreed. Run more yourself. Right. Absolutely. And appreciate those who are helping you on race day.

Ally Brettnacher: Like volunteer at a water station and see how hard that

Dennis Mullen: Yes. Yeah,

Ally Brettnacher: Right. It's so hard. And you're thinking about these major marathons, people who have a team of probably 30 people that are. Working at this water station and filling cups and it's, it's [00:28:00] an art.

It's a, it's very difficult.

Dennis Mullen: Did you work? I think it was the monumental, the year. It was really windy.

Ally Brettnacher: I ran that

Dennis Mullen: year. You ran that?

Ally Brettnacher: ran the full, that was the first year I ran the fall maybe.

Dennis Mullen: Okay. So yeah, that was probably not an optimal No.

Year for your first it wasn't, but I just remember the, uh, like the cups wouldn't even like stay on.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh yeah.

Mile 20. The port the table was just, I mean, you couldn't fill 'em full enough

Dennis Mullen: It was a yard sale still, yeah. Out there.

Ally Brettnacher: It was rough.

Dennis Mullen: What

Ally Brettnacher: can you do?

Dennis Mullen: Well, yeah,

they did it.

Ally Brettnacher: They sure did. Well, and now we have to talk Carmel, because that's also

recent news getting canceled for, well postponed this time, but for the second year in a row.

And you were supposed to run last

Dennis Mullen: year.

I was, yeah. Had to do an audible.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. So talk through that. What was that experience like?

Dennis Mullen: So last year is, I mean, very similar story.

My heart breaks for the organizers of that event. They cannot get any weather luck. But, um, last year I just, I remember the weekend before looking at the forecast and just look gnarly and just not something that I was [00:29:00] interested in running in, even if they were able to Oh, to go forward on. Mm-hmm. So I just decided to audible

Ally Brettnacher: before it was canceled.

Dennis Mullen: Bef well before it was canceled. 'cause I think

Ally Brettnacher: look at you. I

Dennis Mullen: think they canceled morning of They

Ally Brettnacher: It was the morning of the race, thankfully, before anybody got

there. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Which I think probably speculation of course, but went into some of the decision this year into

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, a thousand percent went into DEC decision this

Dennis Mullen: year.

Runner safety, all the infrastructure we just talked about. Yeah. Like getting notice to them, the volunteers, they've gotta have hundreds of volunteers that they're relying on. I, yeah, I would, I would be the last person to armchair. Right. Quarterback. I mean, I remember this year, not. Sidetrack from my personal story, but when they made the announcement, was it like Wednesday or Thursday?

Wednesday. Wednesday I looked to forecast and I was like, yeah, that makes sense. Absolutely. I probably, yeah, just

Ally Brettnacher: You're like, wow, that looks

awful. Yeah.

Smart. Good. They gave everybody a chance

Dennis Mullen: Heads up, not heads

Ally Brettnacher: fly in. They could find a different race. How great is that?

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Obviously. [00:30:00] Yeah. Not what anybody wanted, but yeah. So anyways, last year, you know, the writing was kind of on the wall. That was gonna be best case scenario. A really tough condition Yeah. To go race in. And it's just like I've, I've ran a couple marathons now I'm here for one reason and one reason only not to talk outta both sides of my mouth from earlier.

You're like to go fast for the time to go fast for the time.

Ally Brettnacher: You know, you can't take it out of the road

Dennis Mullen: maybe. Exactly, exactly. It's a lot of training and

Ally Brettnacher: it is.

Dennis Mullen: so there was lots of options to, you know, do you postpone a couple weeks to do Louisville had one and there's one in like Toledo. Mm-hmm.

just knew myself enough that I couldn't extend my taper.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh yeah. That would drive me nuts.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. And I couldn't get back into training. It just, it was not something my body was gonna cooperate with. Yeah. So I was limited mm-hmm. In options. So I found a, uh, a nice small marathon up in Milwaukee.

Oh, Milwaukee,

Yes. Milwaukee. So drivable.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, for sure. Um,

Dennis Mullen: I drove [00:31:00] Friday afternoon, which was not smart 'cause you kind of go around Chicago. Ooh. it took me like six and a half hours to make a, I think it was supposed to be four or something. So just, you know, still felt lucky I

Ally Brettnacher: got,

Dennis Mullen: to do the marathon.

Ally Brettnacher: yeah. At least you made that call

Dennis Mullen: and

Yeah. But it's called the Brew City

Ally Brettnacher: and, oh, you know what, I have heard of that because somebody said this weekend they had storms too, and Yes, they didn't cancel.

They got,

Dennis Mullen: I'm

like,

okay. They did run, I mean,

Ally Brettnacher: they didn't wait and again, but they didn't have the experience Carmel did last year. And it's just what

a hard, much,

Dennis Mullen: much smaller race than Carmel.

It's still

Ally Brettnacher: thousands of people though.

Is it? Yeah. I googled it. 'cause I was curious 'cause some guy in the comments was like, well brew.

And I'm like, well how big is that race? Yeah, but it is, I mean, sizable enough, but not, not the size of caramel.

Dennis Mullen: No. And great race. I mean, it was, it was good and probably not as good of a course as caramel's, hilly and Oh, it was still very windy that day. So, still did okay. I mean, I was 3 0 2 last year, so again, I got that. 'cause I've turned a certain [00:32:00] age,

Ally Brettnacher: a certain age,

Dennis Mullen: recently, so I had a little bit of extra time.

but unfortunately still not under that buffer zone.

Ally Brettnacher: crazy. So how, how much of the buffer was there that you missed it by? I don't know.

Dennis Mullen: I Oh, it was within a minute and a half or two minutes. I know, sorry. You start thinking about it every

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, if I could have just, yeah, no, in

Dennis Mullen: in your mind it's not fair.

No, it's not. And that it's fine. It makes it sort of even, even better when it will happen. Right.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. So that how, what

Dennis Mullen: have qualified?

Ally Brettnacher: three times? Two times. Three times. Three times. Three times. What was the second time?

Carmel? Carmel.

Dennis Mullen: Carmel in 2020. 23 or 2024 maybe

Ally Brettnacher: must have been, it was the first year that Jay and Katie took over the race. 'cause that year we had great

Dennis Mullen: weather. Yeah,

it was it was an awesome race.

Yep. But again, that was the year. I forget which year it was, but that was like the highest cut time for Boston I think. Like

Ally Brettnacher: Oh true. It was like seven something. Yeah. Like I

Dennis Mullen: wasn't even in the same universe.

That one was an easier pill to swallow.

Ally Brettnacher: Right. You're like,

Dennis Mullen: okay. [00:33:00] I get it. Fair enough. I get it. Not going. People are really fast and just like, you gotta, that's what kind of makes it all special.

Ally Brettnacher: So part of me wonders, why don't they just make the time qualifiers so hard that when you hit that qualifier you're guaranteed to get in.

Dennis Mullen: That's a great question. I have no idea.

Yeah. Because

Ally Brettnacher: I don't like this whole, who knows? Yeah. Good luck. You know, it just is really, I wanna know exactly what I need to hit and then if I can hit it great. And then just not have to sit and worry to was it good enough? Yeah. I don't know.

Dennis Mullen: So

that would be fantastic.

But, you know,

Ally Brettnacher: not, probably not gonna happen for, who knows? You can't

Dennis Mullen: the uncertainty makes it exciting.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That's

Dennis Mullen: the viewers exciting.

Ally Brettnacher: So when were you injured and not able to run?

Dennis Mullen: That was 2023. Okay. After my second bq, I, um, hurt my back really bad.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh,

Dennis Mullen: like a herniated disc. Oh, overuse. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Ouch. From running probably.

Okay.

Dennis Mullen: In life, you know, picking up little kids,

Ally Brettnacher: little

kids Yeah. [00:34:00]

Dennis Mullen: All that stuff.

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm.

Dennis Mullen: but yeah, I found out I had degenerative disc disease pretty bad and usually that's like six to 10 weeks of physical therapy in your back. And, um, it just didn't work for me. I just couldn't get. Get sucked back in as much as I worked on my core.

Yeah. So I, I ended up having like a couple of those epidural shots. I joke with my wife, I'm only one behind her now. Catching up fast, I'm sure. My

Ally Brettnacher: My gosh.

Dennis Mullen: gosh. Sure. I'll

Ally Brettnacher: Those are not pleasant. Yeah. No. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: yeah.

Just Anyway,

I'll save the gory details

Ally Brettnacher: details. Oh, I know. It makes me just like

Dennis Mullen: qui makes me appreciate my wife and mm-hmm.

What she did for our family. All, all, much more.

Ally Brettnacher: like probably the easiest part,

Dennis Mullen: so

Ally Brettnacher: yeah.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Blows your mind. Um, but anyways, after the second one, it gave me enough relief that I could really hit the PT harder and, you know, knock on wood, it's, it took and unfortunately I couldn't, I was signed up, I made it that year.

I had the time and I was in the race and

Ally Brettnacher: God, it

Dennis Mullen: me a year to [00:35:00] get back to running. So, so frustrating. Just lost a year. Yeah. But so. Will you have No

Ally Brettnacher: you ever have to have surgery? Okay. Will

Dennis Mullen: you?

Not yet. Not yet. If it comes back, I mean, we were, I was scheduled to go on the table to do a, it's like called a discectomy.

Okay. Very not a major procedure. I would've been out for a couple weeks.

Ally Brettnacher: Sounds Major.

Dennis Mullen: It does. I mean, any back surgery, the concern is it begets more back surgery. Right. Yeah. Once you start going in there. So that's why really I postponed it as long as I possibly could. Like I would rather not get back sooner and fix this on my own than Yeah.

Right. You know, not take a shortcut. That's not the right way of saying it, but like putting myself at potentially more risk.

Ally Brettnacher: Right. I mean, that's a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. I think of Johanna Kiel, who was on this podcast. She runs with PBT. Okay. She went through a back surgery and I don't remember the details of what she was dealing with, but I think it was similar and hers was very serious and so she like got to the point where she.

[00:36:00] Couldn't, she couldn't even sit. It was so bad. so

Dennis Mullen: yeah, I, I did, this is, this is my claim to fame. This really should be it. Okay. When I had that herniated disc. Okay. We did two Disney trips.

Shut up. Yeah.

So not just like the rides, they're jostling you, the kids on your shoulders.

Oh Two,

not

even, but I'm, I'm sleeping on like the worst pullout sofa in Oh no. The Allstar contemporary, whatever, just Wow. Yeah. I was a trooper

Ally Brettnacher: a marathon

Dennis Mullen: sure. Yeah. I should have got a medal. I should have got the goofy right for it, because that really was, that's probably what set me back so much.

Yeah. Gosh.

Ally Brettnacher: Gosh. No

Dennis Mullen: kidding.

After

all that one was a, uh, one at the parks sent me to the cruise. Okay. Cruise is a little bit easier to manage. Yeah. But still, yeah. Not fun. Would not recommend.

Ally Brettnacher: No, I I, we're in talks for a Disney cruise potentially around Christmas this year, and my 4-year-old is very afraid of mascots. So you talk about torchy

Dennis Mullen: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: when we go do the monumental the mile.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: I don't know how not a [00:37:00] gonna go.

Dennis Mullen: Oh, okay.

Ally Brettnacher: She's not gonna

Dennis Mullen: it. You gotta socialize it with her. Tried like, here's a picture.

Ally Brettnacher: I've tried actually, and I think that was probably the wrong move.

Dennis Mullen: Oh no.

Oh no. Because now she talks about it even, so it's interesting. I understand mascots are kind of

creepy.

You might just have to break the wall with her and just be like, this is a person. It's

just did.

Ally Brettnacher: I've tried. I'm like, it is a

human being in there. She's like, I can't see the face. I'm not interested. Have

Dennis Mullen: Have you been torchy? No. Were you torchy?

Ally Brettnacher: You have to be like a professional to do

Dennis Mullen: that. Oh, I had no idea.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, we've hired like, it's a, a job. You have to have, I don't know if you have training, but it's a skillset that is required to

Dennis Mullen: be

Ally Brettnacher: a mascot.

Mean,

Dennis Mullen: I knew you were following around

Ally Brettnacher: oh, I got to be the handler. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. That was really, that was cool that year.

It was really cool. Was that at Apex?

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, that was this last year. Mm-hmm. Because that was the first time we had Torchy at an event ever. So that was really fun.

Dennis Mullen: I have got a lot of selfies with Torchy. I'm a big fan. Yeah. I think it's the greatest thing

Ally Brettnacher: cute. I agree. It's great.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. So you just set yourself apart. I love it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: So, okay. So Boston.

Yeah. So now

Dennis Mullen: we're doing [00:38:00] it. We're gonna get there. You're

Ally Brettnacher: gonna get there. So now you've got the mini, are you gonna do a marathon this year?

Yeah, Monumental.

Dennis Mullen: I'm gonna try. It's gonna be tight.

Ally Brettnacher: Timeline.

Dennis Mullen: timewise, but I'm gonna try one of those last chance.

I'm signed up for the one, the last chance. Thank you. In, uh, Geneva. Okay. Geneva, Illinois. I think. So. We'll see. I mean, that's early September. fitness is pretty good right now, but the volume and long runs are gonna be a challenge mm-hmm. For me. So we'll see how it goes. Yeah. Get back into it. It's been obviously over a year since I've had that mentality, but hopefully it's riding a bike.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Right. It is for

Dennis Mullen: it's exciting. I'm, I'm fired up. it's been a busy year for me personally, so I've kind of focused on jobs. Yeah. So I've kind of focused on other things and now I feel like kind of secure enough that I can. Dedicate a little more time back to mm-hmm. To it, and

Ally Brettnacher: we'll see,

What has the difference been for, from a career standpoint? Going from the government side to the private side?

 

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what has the difference been from a career standpoint? Going from the government side to the private side?

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. doing the same sort of work, just different side of the table, but, just a different approach. Being in the private sector, it's, it's a business. Lots of clients, they all need different things and a lot of it can be time sensitive, so.

Mm-hmm. Like I said, it's, it's one of those things where family's gotta come first and jobs gotta be right there next to it, unfortunately. Yeah. You gotta

Ally Brettnacher: And then running

Dennis Mullen: three kids that are, uh, looking down the barrel of college in the next 10 to 15 years,[00:42:00]

Ally Brettnacher: You're right. Yeah.

You know,

Dennis Mullen: gotta make sure there's some, some plans in place, but, timing wise, you know, it's, it's definitely more of my time during the week, but I'm sort of figuring out how to.

Get runs in and mm-hmm. It's just not as structured as it used to be. I, I just have to figure out sort of every week as I go.

Ally Brettnacher: Right. What's, where's it, where's it gonna fit in? Do you, are you remote or is there an office?

And

Dennis Mullen: nice thing is I'm fully remote.

Ally Brettnacher: That helps.

Dennis Mullen: It does help a lot. Yeah. I'm a Chicago office employee.

That's where like my main home base is. I do have a small office in downtown Indianapolis, but I go to Chicago more than I go to Indianapolis. I, 95% of the time I'm working from home. So yeah. To your point, I can wake up, start grinding away at like 6:00 AM We'll go for a run and just make it, make it work.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Our clients Are your clients on Eastern Time?

Dennis Mullen: All

Ally Brettnacher: or all over the place? All over. Like Global or United States?

Dennis Mullen: We do have some folks outside the us. Okay. Yeah.

That makes it

tricky.

[00:43:00] It does, yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. My husband has calls sometimes at 10:00 PM and you're just like, okay, cool.

Dennis Mullen: I'm doing a big presentation for some overseas clients in May and it kicks off at 9:00 PM and I'm like, okay, tell my boss, you know, sleepy time for me is like eight 30, so

Yeah. That is,

know what you're getting here.

So interesting. Yeah. I'm gonna have

Ally Brettnacher: have to be like,

Dennis Mullen: have an extra Celsius or something that day. For sure.

You'll Andy.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah. So do you, you're in Zionsville?

Yes. I'm Do you run on the rail trail a lot or do you venture over to the monan? Where, where do you run?

Dennis Mullen: Almost always on the rail trail or around it.

There's lots of good sidewalks and routes. So it's just, if I'm doing more than five or six miles, I'm doing like probably loops. Okay. Yeah. Versus I like a loop. Yeah, it's fine. 'cause then you can ditch some nutrition, some water Yeah. With you and know where it's at

for sure.

Especially this time of year before they turn on all the drinking

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I'm ready for that. Do they do that Memorial day? Is that just kind of when all the water

comes? Okay,

Dennis Mullen: Fair enough. I've, I've checked a couple times.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

It's getting [00:44:00] toasty. So

Dennis Mullen: do you come over and you're close enough?

Ally Brettnacher: know, I'm close enough and I used to run on the rail trail, because I had a friend

of mine that we used to meet up and run. Yeah. Now I don't have to run in the mornings as much and so I have, it's a really hard, it's hard for me to get up and go at like 5:00 AM Yeah.

also my husband does the morning gym stuff, so you know, then I don't compete with him to try to figure out who gets to go. And I will, I need to come run with the Zionsville Run Club. 'cause

they're still they're still pretty new. They're gonna celebrate their first year this summer.

And so yeah, I've been telling that crew. I was like, I'll come over at Tuesday

Dennis Mullen: at five 15. At some

point, let's, I'm a member. You are. I'm the, I'm the worst member.

I

Ally Brettnacher: was gonna say,

I've not seen you in any of

Dennis Mullen: of the photos that, Nope, I have

Ally Brettnacher: where are you? Well,

Dennis Mullen: Well, you know, I've, I've known Mike Cole for a long time and he's, yeah, he's helped organize it. He's also my favorite pizza place, although he just

Ally Brettnacher: sold. Right. He did sell it. But Greeks Pizza, shout out to Greeks

Dennis Mullen: Pizza. Absolutely. That's

a Friday staple. Mm-hmm. In my household. So yeah. I wanted to make sure I'm at least patronizing it. But yeah, my, again, my running schedule is sort of, I, I'm also on [00:45:00] PBT and I used to go to Eagle Creek on Saturdays and run with a group, but more so these days I'm lone wolf. Mm-hmm.

Just getting it in when I can. Yeah. Super early on Sundays or, yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: So how, what are the ages of your kids right now?

Dennis Mullen: I have an 11-year-old. Okay. And a 7-year-old. Both daughters. Okay. And then a 4-year-old son. So just kind of a nice span. Yeah. Very busy.

Yeah. That's a lot. The two sport, I think about sports right now, soccer's starting for us and we had three games this weekend and we're just in like Carmel dad's club, so it's, you know, we're not even doing travel stuff and it still feels like a lot.

This weekend was

rough. Yeah,

this, we had like the sideways rain on Saturday morning. Yeah. 30 degrees. I was spring soccer.

Ally Brettnacher: there thinking

like caramel could be happening right now, and instead I'm sitting and watching my 4-year-old run around in the rain. Yeah. But like you said earlier, the weather was not something I would've wanted to run in.

I'm, I mean, I of course don't wish the postponement on anybody, but I was kind of glad not to be out there a little bit. I mean,

Dennis Mullen: [00:46:00] I'd be right there with you.

Ally Brettnacher: I,

Dennis Mullen: yeah, it's, I'm just weak. I think. I don't want,

Ally Brettnacher: it's the wind more than it is the cold rain.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah.

Yeah. That

wind was, now we, we are at soccer fields, so you know, the wind is, it's

even worse 40

miles now.

More than what it is normally, but still,

Ally Brettnacher: yeah. I feel like I have to dress. 20 degrees colder. Like I was out there, like it was full on

Dennis Mullen: winter. perca. Yeah. Seriously.

Ally Brettnacher: it was good. Then I felt great. Yeah. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: Thankfully, my oldest is a gymnast, so That's okay. No weather impacts, not weather definitive with that.

Yeah. Just a lot of travel and practice time.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That

can be a

big deal.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah.

Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Have any of them run at all?

Dennis Mullen: No. No. I'm,

I'm lobbying so hard. I think I got a chance for a middle child. Okay. We'll see. I think she wants to do it.

Signs

Ally Brettnacher: her out to the mile?

Dennis Mullen: I know, I'm, that's a great point

Ally Brettnacher: that's what we do every year as a family. Okay. We do the mile, so even with my youngest, she's done it the last two years and she's gonna be five. So she's like,

Dennis Mullen: you know,

Ally Brettnacher: super young. I'm like, she's fine. She can do it. She has the most energy out of [00:47:00] anybody, I think, in our family.

So, yeah, you should totally do that. I

Dennis Mullen: I think when I, when I pose the question to my oldest, like she's a gymnast, she will run down the vault, whatever that, that runway mm-hmm.

Whatever you call it. That's, yeah. I

Ally Brettnacher: know what it's

Dennis Mullen: called

either after that. She's, She's,

that's the running,

she's good to go on that stuff.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh

Dennis Mullen: Oh yeah. But I think, you know, that Zionsville has a great, like, girls on the Run program that they start in elementary school. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I'm trying to get my middle child, she'd be really good at it.

She's a soccer

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: Too.

She's

Ally Brettnacher: so much running. He's

Dennis Mullen: to running around in circles and all that good stuff. Absolutely. So, yeah. Hopefully. And then my son is just, he's too, too young. I don't know what he's, I, I just hope he'll stop hitting his head against walls at some point. Yeah.

That's, that's my main goal.

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's funny. Boys and I only have two girls, so I don't know the difference. I have a nephew, a couple nephews,

Dennis Mullen: but

Okay. So you've seen it? Yeah, I've seen it. There is difference.

Ally Brettnacher: there is, but I've not lived it

Dennis Mullen: really.

So beautiful little girls playing with their dolls.

Mm-hmm. Versus my son who is just constant [00:48:00] potty language

Ally Brettnacher: Oh,

Dennis Mullen: yeah. Jumping off things.

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm.

Dennis Mullen: It's just testing every limit.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah,

Dennis Mullen: He's, he's awesome. Keeps us, uh, keeps us

Ally Brettnacher: Absolutely.

Keeps you busy. So, let's pivot a little bit and get a little nerdier with the specifics of your running.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Let's talk.

What

Ally Brettnacher: do you use for, we talked, you mentioned nutrition. Yeah. What do you use? What do you

Dennis Mullen: like?

I like the Martin gels. Okay.

Ally Brettnacher: fancy

Dennis Mullen: gels.

The fancy gels. It just has no taste. Sometimes they're hard to get down a little bit just 'cause they're pretty thick.

Ally Brettnacher: They're like a jelly.

Dennis Mullen: It's very gelatinous. Yeah, very

Ally Brettnacher: It's not as like thick as the goo

Dennis Mullen: Yeah.

But it's like,

and there's no taste, which I prefer.

Okay. The caffeine ones taste weird to

me.

Oh, do they? Yeah. I don't know if

I've

Ally Brettnacher: the regular ones to me tastes like marmal.

They're

just like, sweet.

Dennis Mullen: I've never done the caffeine ones, I

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. They're not, I don't like them.

But,

Dennis Mullen: my advice on anyone, Martins or probably any gels or things like that, I'd probably wait until you're close to a water station. Just so you can,

I mean, If there's

like a bad aftertaste or, [00:49:00] yeah. Or even just chasing it down. Yeah. I think it's a good pro tip generally, if you can structure it that way.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, for

Dennis Mullen: Probably some races you gotta do it when you gotta do it. Mm-hmm. But I will say like the, the races that I've bonked, like that first marathon and even Milwaukee last year, I missed an aid station and I was so mad at myself. 'cause that's, Milwaukee is a two loop course. Oh, interesting. And so, just the way it works, I missed that aid station.

It was like three, three and a half, four miles before I could get anything else. Yeah, that's tough. And then you're just like playing all these

Ally Brettnacher: games, right? You're like, oh, now I can't possibly, yeah.

Dennis Mullen: Ugh. So it's really important to, mm-hmm. To nail your nutrition or It's tough to nail it, but at least have a plan For sure.

Try to stick to it. I have probably always gone light. I mean, I, you read like you need it every 30, 35 minutes. Well, I'm thinking of a marathon. And even if you're doing it at three hours, like where, where shall I stuff all of these, like, I don't know, am I gonna backpack with [00:50:00] me? Right.

Ally Brettnacher: It is. tricky

Dennis Mullen: to keep all these gels and Yeah.

I really want to, uh, I've seen this on socials, the nerd gummies. Yeah, I like those. I love those first of all. Yes. And then like some people are huge advocates of just taking those out on a run. So a hundred percent. I started doing beet juice. No. Have you done the beet juice? No. Yeah, it's horrible. Yeah, it's really bad.

I'm not gonna sugarcoat it for you, although you should sugarcoat it if you take

it right. Ugh.

but there's a lot of scientific research

that,

Ally Brettnacher: I've definitely seen it

Dennis Mullen: that

Ally Brettnacher: just straight up beet.

Dennis Mullen: juice. It is like 98% beet juice with a little twist of lemon, I think is one of those.

Ally Brettnacher: to make it not taste as horrible.

Dennis Mullen: It doesn't Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: I, I have tried recently Ketone iq.

Dennis Mullen: Okay. What's this? Um, this is something I've

Ally Brettnacher: some people use it for recovery. Some people use it like pre-workout, but ketones, I mean, You should just Google it. Yeah. People who are listening. Okay. the science behind it, is, is shown to work well, to help you either not bonk [00:51:00] or recover. Okay. I use it pre-workout. They taste really bad. This is,

Dennis Mullen: So this is, this sounds the exact same as beet juice.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. It tastes really gross, so I always have electrolytes to chase it with.

And even after you chase it, it still leaves a taste in your mouth for like, a little bit and you just gotta get it out of

Dennis Mullen: there. Oh yeah. That's tough. Yeah.

And then, um, the salt sticks. Yes. And I just use like, those little tablets. Okay.

Ally Brettnacher: You do the

Dennis Mullen: tablets,

I do the tablets. The capsules. Yeah, I do. Okay. The, well, yeah, I guess like the chewable ones. Yeah. I like those.

Ally Brettnacher: Those are, those can be brutal too though. Yeah. Some of them taste like dishwashing tablets I think. Oh gosh.

Dennis Mullen: Are you getting expired ones?

Ally Brettnacher: I don't know. Maybe

Dennis Mullen: I try to get like the lemon lime. I don't know. It's, it's hard. Nutrition's the hardest part. I

Ally Brettnacher: it is tough

Dennis Mullen: because you gotta have it and it's something that you don't think like, oh, I need this amount of miles during the week. Mm-hmm. And I've, this is the pace I want to be at.

And when I hit mile eight and like all this stuff and I feel like it's very much like third, fourth, fifth [00:52:00] consideration. but like that, and I'm trying to get better with strength training. Yeah. Because I'm just, I got little bird legs, you know? And seriously, it's just like I need to do more plyometrics and.

I try to keep it light, body weight type stuff, but Okay. Lots of squats.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. 'cause where would you go? Where would you go if you were

Dennis Mullen: doing

In my gym? I just, I'd have a gym in the basement. Okay. That's nice. Then just some lightweights and mm-hmm. I'm not, I'm not trying to get, get yolks as the kids say.

Ally Brettnacher: I've never heard that in I've never heard that in my life.

Dennis Mullen: Trying try to keep, uh, keep some fitness, keep a little bit of strength. I know you do the Peloton I

Ally Brettnacher: I do, yeah. And I like having the Peloton strength classes.

Yes. 'cause that just tells me what to do. Otherwise, I mean, I could make it up, but it's better for somebody to tell me. 'cause then it pushes me a little bit more. Now if I was in a class with people, like a burn bootcamp or something like that, I would work a lot harder. But

Dennis Mullen: should do designs zone one.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I've, I've been there.

It's great. Have you? Okay. Yeah. But it's just one of those things where if I can go down in my basement and knock it out, it's so much better. So

Dennis Mullen: that's what I tend

Ally Brettnacher: to do,

Dennis Mullen: I hear you. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Ally Brettnacher: [00:53:00] And,

you know, nutrition wise, I find that for me it's always about doing more than you think you need. Yeah. Like you said, most people under fuel.

Dennis Mullen: Mm-hmm.

Ally Brettnacher: So I've been trying to tinker with that a little bit more. Uh, and I can tell you on some runs where I've been fueled, I feel really different. It feels so good. Have

Dennis Mullen: Have you ever been in a race and you like surfing, feeling really nauseous? Like you, you're dehydrated.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. A thousand percent. Yeah. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: So it's just everyone goes through it and you just gotta learn like, yes. You even half marathons, like, I was nuts at first and I was like, I'm just gonna skip those.

That's gonna take up some time. Yeah. Just

Ally Brettnacher: like who needs, it's only a half

Dennis Mullen: needs, yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Who needs fuel?

Dennis Mullen: Who needs any sort of,

just Silly stuff like that.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I made my

Dennis Mullen: my dad

don't be that,

Ally Brettnacher: take some goo with him for the, Marine Corps marathon that he did last year.

'cause he did. He was like, I'm not gonna bring it. I'm like, dad, you need to eat something during that time. Like, at least humor me and take a couple GOs. And he said he took one, which, I mean, one in a

Dennis Mullen: marathon. I really

[00:54:00] want do that one. It's a good one. I wanna get out and do more. What's been your your favorite out of state? I've done, I only in the Milwaukee one,

I need to get

Ally Brettnacher: only outta state. Yeah. You gotta get out more. I know. Um, there's so many to do. I've had New York. New York is just New York. Yeah. And I was lucky enough, I did that in 2018 and it was kind of, I mean, before what we're experiencing now in the running boom. So I feel like getting into New York now, it's hard.

It's really

Dennis Mullen: tough. I think the

times are harder than Boston.

Ally Brettnacher: I think that could be accurate. Yeah. And uh, I also did one in Salt Lake City, a run Revel. They recently changed the rules. These used to be BQ courses. Okay. So I remember thinking when I did that race, I'm like, I'm gonna come back here for my BQ attempt because you're literally going down a mountain.

And that one was pretty cool. 'cause they bust you to the top before the sun rises and then you run down the mountain and it's just so pretty. And it wasn't as hard on my legs as I thought it might be. It was my PR for the longest time.

That's awesome. And then I was finally, so just

Dennis Mullen: start rolling.

Yeah. Man. If you, you start feeling

Ally Brettnacher: right. You just [00:55:00] lay down

Dennis Mullen: who needs to walk. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: does the trick. But yeah. So yeah, you've gotta do some, some others. But you'll get Illinois

Dennis Mullen: now.

Yeah. I'll do Illinois. Done Milwaukee. Start with Midwest and work my way. Yeah. Right.

Ally Brettnacher: Work your way out. So, for the last Chance BQ

Dennis Mullen: Yes.

Ally Brettnacher: For people who don't know kinda what the setup is of that kind of environment, could you talk through that?

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Well, I'll talk to what I know at least. Yeah. Um, it is a shorter course. I don't know the exact mileage off the top of my head, but I think it's something like, like three and a half or four miles.

Okay. For a loops, do you know? Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. I should know this. but you just do it a certain amount of times. So you get 26.2. It's a pretty small race. I think they just a couple hundred. Folks, and you have to give them some like, previous race information to show that you're sort of capable. Yeah.

That makes sense of, of achieving a BQ time for your age group. And then, you know, once you're there, it's what the selling points are is they just [00:56:00] sort of treat you like the elite runners get treated for mm-hmm. Big races. You get the table and you can have your water bottles sort of

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, that's cool.

Dennis Mullen: But they also have eight stations as you normally would for a race, and it's obviously flat and pretty fast.

So I'm excited for it. Yeah. I'm not excited to get back in training.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. So it's a, it's tough

Dennis Mullen: once you, uh, once you go a certain amount of time without doing like a 15 mile run, you're just like, oh, this seems, why, why am I doing this to myself? Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: then, but then, yeah. Then you finish that run and you're like, man, that felt good

Dennis Mullen: to go

Ally Brettnacher: knock out a long run.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Get those endorphins. Yeah. Going.

Will your

Ally Brettnacher: family go to cheer you on at the last chance?

Dennis Mullen: I hope so. But it's kind of tough with the kids' ages. Yeah. And inevitably somebody's gonna have something going on that weekend. Like even the mini, I think we've got a soccer game or something

that,

Ally Brettnacher: gosh, don't even get me.

Sorry about that. That weekend is nuts. First communion.

Dennis Mullen: Oh wow. Yeah. You're first

Ally Brettnacher: communion. We've got

Dennis Mullen: you. Better [00:57:00] run. Are you good doing it? Yeah. Okay. You gotta run fast

Ally Brettnacher: run fast. It's funny, my daughter's like, mom has to run fast so she can make it to my

Dennis Mullen: community. That's right. You can't miss that.

Ally Brettnacher: like, yeah. And my mother-in-law, when I told her I was, she was kind of like, what You're gonna, I'm like, well,

Dennis Mullen: I'm signed up. Yeah. Priorities.

Ally Brettnacher: needs to be there at noon, you know? And so my mom's gonna take her.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah, you'll be all right.

it'll be fine.

Mm-hmm.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. My dad has a story where he like barely made it for my sister's first communion back in the

Dennis Mullen: day.

Ally Brettnacher: So Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: yeah,

Ally Brettnacher: just don't, I hope I don't have that story. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: So

it'd be more memorable that way though.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Let's hope not. I don't need the stress. Yeah. But we're missing, I think we're missing soccer games. Who knows? But yeah, it's crazy time of year, that's for sure.

do you have like a morning race routine or like a pre-race?

Do you carb load for a few days? What does that look like for you?

Dennis Mullen: Yeah, I try to eat some more bagels. Yeah. The week leading up. I mean, just, again, that's one of those things that I think is pretty, there's a lot of good peer reviewed Yeah. Evidence that like, yeah, you should up your carb intake especially like the week of Yes.

I [00:58:00] mean, I, I wouldn't wait till the night before, like Michael Scott in the office or something like

Ally Brettnacher: something like that. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: But, um, besides that, if wake up early, I'll do some beet juice Good for the mini. So if yes, there's a big pile of red somewhere on the track that somebody has to clean up, you know, that's, oh my gosh, knows that's totally me.

probably too much caffeine. I don't know. I slam a lot of coffee. Okay. Just to get going and Yeah. But then I, I will not do like the caffeine packs during the race. Yeah. I usually don't either. Again,

Ally Brettnacher: you eat toast or bagel or what do you eat for breakfast?

Dennis Mullen: Bagel in the morning. Yeah. Just plain bagel. Okay. Um, maybe like a little, just little light smear butter on it.

Okay. But

Ally Brettnacher: yeah, because you something versus just a plain,

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Gotta have a little something on it. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: For sure.

Dennis Mullen: But then, yeah, it just get to the, get to the start line then.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, I'm excited 'cause I'll see you. I know. 'cause you'll run past

Dennis Mullen: me.

No. Yeah, well

Ally Brettnacher: you will. I'll be, I'm running with Ainsley's

Dennis Mullen: Angels. Oh,

okay.

Thats awesome.

So I start, you're pushing,

Ally Brettnacher: start in the first wave or the before the first

Dennis Mullen: wave.

Yeah. Okay. And

Ally Brettnacher: you guys [00:59:00] start and run by us

Dennis Mullen: Are you gonna be decked out again?

Ally Brettnacher: I'll be wearing Yeah. I'll have pink on

Dennis Mullen: for sure. I'll be looking for you. Yeah. We did this before.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

I'm sure.

I've well

Dennis Mullen: probably it. Uh, hit the bricks. Yeah. Or no? Was it zl half?

Ally Brettnacher: it was hit the bricks. 5K. Yeah. That was the first time I've ever done that race.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Fun race, right? It was fun. Last mile was kind of tricky. Especially pushing.

Oh my goodness.

Ally Brettnacher: I remember having my partner, Shannon. I was like, can you push up this, this hill take, like, 'cause she was running, it was like no big deal to her.

And she had just done the Air Force marathon. I thought I was like, the day before I'd done a 20 miler and so I was like, oh, sorry, I did a 20 miler. And she's like, oh, well, sorry, I just did a full marathon race.

Dennis Mullen: I erased

it. I was like, okay, I

can't. No big deal. Can't I can't.

DENNIS M INTERVIEW: Yeah,

Ally Brettnacher: com. Yeah. I can't complain anymore,

Dennis Mullen: but that is That was a fun, that was a fun race.

Love that. Do do a lot of five Ks like that? No. No.

Ally Brettnacher: No. Not I, it just, I focus on the bigger races. I probably should.

Dennis Mullen: There's I'd probably be

Ally Brettnacher: there's just so many.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. They'd probably be smart to have some racing under my belt before

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, five

Ks are so hard [01:00:00] though.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. It's a different race. Yes. Right. And I, it's my time is like so compressed now. I, my 5K time and my full marathon time would not be that different from each other. It's kind of wild. Yeah. Like I just, I cannot go very fast anymore.

Interesting. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: It,

well, it hurts. It

Dennis Mullen: It

Ally Brettnacher: Did you win an age group

Dennis Mullen: for Hit

Ally Brettnacher: on Hit the For the Bricks? Yeah. Yeah, I got third. Okay. I think, yeah. I got third and I remember this was, this was whoever won. Nice guy. And you remember how the start works where you like it's at city hall and you kind of go down to the rail trail and you're supposed to hang a right at a certain place, but you go over grass to do it.

Dennis Mullen: Okay, got it. But there's also like a little paved trail before you hit that grass and there were cones and the setup was fine. I should have known. Yeah. But I tried to take that paved trail and I almost nailed this guy in the next week. Oh. Because it was like a skinnier like legitimate runner type type guy.

Not like big, bulky, you [01:01:00] know, just, yeah. And I felt so bad 'cause I nailed him. It's a start line. It was like, it's like,

Ally Brettnacher: oops, sorry.

Dennis Mullen: I'm shocked he didn't go down.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh man. Yeah. Well then,

Dennis Mullen: Then, you know, he passed me like mile one and it's like he gave me the finger probably

as we went by. Take

Ally Brettnacher: you go.

Dennis Mullen: But yeah, it's a good race.

Ally Brettnacher: It is. That was a fun race. I enjoyed it. And it was the first time I did a 5K with Ainsley's Angels, which

Dennis Mullen: that's so cool.

Ally Brettnacher: 5K again, five Ks are already hard for me.

And then, we were, we were pushing Kendall Jade and her mom, Christie is, she is like the ambassador for all of central North central Indiana for Ainsley's Angels. And so I felt so honored to be pushing her daughter and then she kind of, I, I forget Christie said something about you guys go out there and win today.

Yeah. For, and I was like, what? I was not anticipating this being any kind of speed. So yeah,

Dennis Mullen: it

was fun.

Oh, there's expectations here. Yeah. Come on. We got, let's go. Yes.

Ally Brettnacher: And, and then I met, it was the first time I've ever met Shannon, the woman I pushed with. And so that was actually really fun to have a chance [01:02:00] to meet somebody and just,

Dennis Mullen: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: run as fast as you can

for three miles. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: it's really cool. Yeah, it was definitely inspiring to, and it was just great seeing you.

Yeah. Kind of gave me a little extra juice for that

Ally Brettnacher: last Yeah. It's so great. Mile. Yeah. I don't think I saw you at the beginning. No. No. So that was a nice surprise.

Dennis Mullen: No, it took, it took me a while to find you guys, I think. Yeah. I don't think I caught up to you till till. Less than a mile maybe, I

Ally Brettnacher: No. Oh, I remember where it was. It was coming kind of up right as you're gonna come and then take a ride onto Main Street. It was that road, I don't know.

Dennis Mullen: Road. Probably Mulberry. Probably. Yeah. Yeah.

Down to Ash. Yep.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. So I used to, I used to run over there. Now I don't as much. I usually do the monan

Dennis Mullen: should come, slum it

out. it in on the rail trail.

A little more.

Ally Brettnacher: Well, it's grown a lot. It's gotten a lot bigger. Yeah. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: It's gone. I don't know how far into Whitestown it is now, but you can get some legitimate miles.

Mm-hmm.

Out there.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. And now we

Dennis Mullen: typically stay on the loop, but Yeah. Well, I'm boring.

Ally Brettnacher: Boring. I, I think boring is good. I like an out and back or a loop.

I have several that I've created kind of from my [01:03:00] house. Now on, what is that road? Hundred 16th Street. They finally put a sidewalk all the way in. So technically I could run all the way.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah, you could. Yeah. That's awesome. but,

Ally Brettnacher: I haven't yet, but I will sometime. Who knows? And what shoes do you race in?

Dennis Mullen: I'm a Nike guy. Okay. Yep.

Oh, I know.

Ally Brettnacher: just kidding. Everyone. I mean, I shouldn't say everybody, but a lot of people do, obviously run in Nike. I,

Dennis Mullen: They just, I have, it seems like most people who don't like the shoes are like, oh, they're too narrow. They don't fit my, mm-hmm. They're by far the best for my weird feet.

I don't know. Yeah, it's, I've tried Adidas and Hokas and Brooks and like Nike's just feel the best on my foot. Not even like. Talking about the super shoe or whatever aspect of

Ally Brettnacher: no, I know what you mean.

Dennis Mullen: I think all the super shoes are pretty similar at this point. Yeah. But yeah, it's just, it's the best feel.

So I've stuck with them for a long time. Yeah. They've got like the whole rotation of them at

Ally Brettnacher: All the different ones. Yeah. I, for whatever reason, Nike doesn't fit my feet,

Dennis Mullen: See, that's what everyone [01:04:00] says. I'm just a weirdo with

Ally Brettnacher: Well, you're not the only

Dennis Mullen: one.

The perfect Nike feet. A

Ally Brettnacher: of people

Dennis Mullen: perfect.

Me and Connor Mans, you know, very similar in a lot of ways. Super similar. Yeah. Just 4 32 miles and stuff.

Ally Brettnacher: yeah. My goodness. So, all right, well, you ready for the end of the podcast

Dennis Mullen: questions?

Yeah, let's do it. Okay. What

Ally Brettnacher: just two.

Dennis Mullen: Okay.

Ally Brettnacher: The first one is what? Is your prepared something? No. Okay. Well, you could have, but you said you do better without being prepared. So here we go. the first one is, what is your favorite running mantra and or song?

Dennis Mullen: Oh my goodness. Alright. Mantra. I don't really do the mantras. Okay. I know they're cool. Sometimes I watch that David Goggins, who's gonna carry the logs.

Oh yeah. That's just kind of silly and humorous and makes me laugh. So I think about that. Yeah, sometimes. But

Ally Brettnacher: what does he mean? What does,

Dennis Mullen: I don't know. He's just a crazy person. Yeah. But he's like lifting

Ally Brettnacher: laws.

Dennis Mullen: Okay. So

DENNIS M INTERVIEW: Forgot.

Ally Brettnacher: So somebody's gotta carry the

Dennis Mullen: log. You gotta YouTube it. It's just, you'll laugh. have you read Shoe Dog?

Ally Brettnacher: Oh yeah. Long time ago though. But it was really good.

Dennis Mullen: There's, there's a great quote that I go [01:05:00] back and I, I got highlighted on my phone that mm-hmm. I just read that it's just all about running, being like a personal experience and it's like, it's not really rewarding. You're not really going anywhere.

You're just doing it because you love to do it sort of thing. Mm-hmm. So that's something I go back and just read quite a bit. And then there is an article called The Marathon Doesn't Owe You anything that I would recommend people read, especially if you've gone out and like. Had a bit of a struggle.

Yeah. Which I think is everybody. Yeah. Right. Even if you get a good time, like

you're not trying hard enough if

you, you are struggling the entire time. So, yeah. I would definitely recommend that article. It just gives you good perspective

Ally Brettnacher: about, yeah.

DENNIS M INTERVIEW: like,

Dennis Mullen: stuff happens, injuries happen. Mm-hmm. You're not promised anything.

And like the luckiest people who get to do a marathon, do it completely on fumes again, exhausted faces, all that. And then mm-hmm. Song like when I'm running

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Do you listen to music?

Dennis Mullen: More podcasts. Okay. And like books on tape. So I mostly like do [01:06:00] humorous stuff like Smartless and Conan, Conan O'Brien.

Just like anything to take my mind off things for a while. But mostly it's

Ally Brettnacher: like

Dennis Mullen: I like going out and running 'cause I can't check my email and stuff. Right. And

Ally Brettnacher: don't have to think about anything. Right. Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: So I don't, I mean, sometimes I'll listen to music, I guess, but. Pretty rarely.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. So what would your walkout song be then?

Dennis Mullen: Oh, my walkout song, man. I guess I'd go with like, the Who Won't Be Fooled Again.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. How's that? How's that go?

Dennis Mullen: Uh, you'd have to listen to

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. 'cause I don't know.

Dennis Mullen: it's a good one.

Ally Brettnacher: All right.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. It's one of my favorites. It pumps you

Ally Brettnacher: up. All right.

Dennis Mullen: Little bit. It's got a good, like, intro and

Ally Brettnacher: I'll have

Dennis Mullen: go listen to

it. Kind of Crescendo.

Ally Brettnacher: of those I'll like, listen, I'm like, oh, I know this song. Yeah. Do you think that I'll know it?

Dennis Mullen: Yeah, you will know it. Okay. Okay. They play it like Colts games. Gotcha. When they come outta the tunnel. Alright. I think. And touchdowns. But yeah. mostly just more of a, a on the easy runs, especially just put on like some Conan O'Brien and, or some finish line, the milestones.

Ally Brettnacher: you go.

Dennis Mullen: Okay.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: Plug.

Ally Brettnacher: Uh, do you [01:07:00] listen to audio books? Sometimes. Sometimes. Have you done Project Hail Mary?

Dennis Mullen: No.

But it's on my list. Okay. A lot of people have told

Ally Brettnacher: move it to the top.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Is it great?

Ally Brettnacher: I wanna, I'll probably listen to it again actually. Nice. So good. And the movie was

Dennis Mullen: excellent.

Yeah. I'm not gonna watch the movie until I, that's, I was gonna like at least read the book, but somebody else told me that the audio book is fantastic. 'cause like the whatever the Martian or the

Ally Brettnacher: the Aliens Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: Is like a, a good voice I guess.

Ally Brettnacher: is cute. It makes it, I think going into the movie, I, it just made it really.

Even that much more enjoyable, I thought. Yeah. To be able to kind of hear, and now you can picture Ryan Gosling the whole time you're listening to the book,

which also helped me. I really enjoyed that. Um, but yeah, put that, move that to the top of your list. It's so good. It's one of those books, like Shoe Dog actually one of those books where I, after I read it, I would just

tell

everybody, about it.

Be like, you got, I listen to this 'cause it's so good. Yeah. But if you don't, I tell people if they don't like space, then they're not gonna like it. 'cause

I mean,

oh yeah. It's all space, but

it's just bandwidth type thing. I haven't had time. Yeah. Yep. But.

But, all right, well now that you're ramping up mileage,

Dennis Mullen: I know.

Put it on [01:08:00] there. Yeah.

Yeah. Get some good shows maybe. Yeah. Throw it on the old, uh, treadmill.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. Do you have a treadmill in your gym?

Dennis Mullen: No? but I'll go to, usually I like sign up for Planet Fitness. Okay. Just easy access.

Ally Brettnacher: do you do that just during like a training block? Yes. Oh, that's smart. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. From

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. For inclement

weather

Ally Brettnacher: But do they have TVs on the treadmills

now? No. Okay.

Dennis Mullen: Bring my own.

Ally Brettnacher: Alright, that makes sense. Do you bring just your phone?

Dennis Mullen: Yeah, I'll bring my phone and usually I try to, I time that with like a sporting event that I'm interested in watching. Yeah. If I can make that work afternoon soccer game or something like that.

Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Well, that's like I was just saying, I was watching the Boston Marathon on my treadmill

Dennis Mullen: today. Oh, were you? Yeah. Nice. Oh man.

Ally Brettnacher: start of it, it was, it was good. I'm running like 10 minute miles and like these guys are just flying down the hills

Dennis Mullen: and

I'm

just, I've looked at the results, but I just, I didn't wanna watch.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I don't, I mean, I didn't watch the entirety of it, but I watched the beginning and then caught some of the middle and then the, I like watching the finish.

Dennis Mullen: I think the winner fell and he still like had such a [01:09:00] incredible time.

Ally Brettnacher: just

nuts. Did he fall this year? I thought he fell last

Dennis Mullen: year.

Ally Brettnacher: what,

Dennis Mullen: maybe.

I read an

Ally Brettnacher: Because they were talking about how he had fallen in another race, I think. I don't think it was this year. Okay. Either that or I totally missed

Dennis Mullen: it. Yeah.

So anyways, yeah.

slightly impressive time.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Dennis Mullen: say.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. And then the next one is, what is your next finish line and or milestone?

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. Mini marathon. That's gonna be it. See enough? Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna crush it. I'll see you. There we go. High fives. Maybe I'll push for a little while. Am I allowed to like take No,

Ally Brettnacher: You are absolutely allowed for anybody who listens. Yeah, you can actually, I remember before I ever pushed, somebody told me that, they're like, if you ever want to, you just go ask the team if they'd like a hand or whatever and yeah, totally, totally allowed.

Alright. Mm-hmm. But you shouldn't, if you're going for a time, you just wave.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah, just wave. I'll just wave this time.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. And then you just had a, a milestone birthday last

Dennis Mullen: year, so I did. Yeah. 40. Yeah. I'll disclose.

Ally Brettnacher: I'm July, I'm 40 this year, so

Dennis Mullen: Yeah,

July 2nd, 10th. July [01:10:00] 10th.

Yeah. All right.

Ally Brettnacher: a good month.

Dennis Mullen: Yeah. We'll see You get extra, extra time for that bee keel.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Which, I mean, I guess technically last year I could

Dennis Mullen: have Yes.

Ally Brettnacher: it, which I didn't think about. Yeah. But it's okay. You get that. I'm trying to be patient and not rush it.

Dennis Mullen: need

Ally Brettnacher: to get older.

Dennis Mullen: It's

our only chance.

Our only chance.

Ally Brettnacher: It's our only chance. Ugh. Well thank you so much

Dennis Mullen: Dennis,

for doing

this. Oh, no, thank you. This was fun. Yeah. It's great to see you. Yeah. Yeah, you too. Thank you for having me.

Ally Brettnacher: for having me. Absolutely. And thank you to everybody who has listened and happy running.

Dennis Mullen: Happy running.

Ally Brettnacher: Yay.

If you enjoyed this episode of Finish Lines and Milestones from Sandy Boy Productions, head to the show notes or to my website, athlete bouquets.com to sign up for weekly finish lines and milestones emails. And if you already do that, please share rate review. That's how others find the show. I'm so excited for this weekend and kicking off the month of May.

One more quick shout out to my friend Lana Cohen, who is running the Vancouver Marathon this weekend. So I hope everyone has a great week, and I will talk to you again next week. Bye.