Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 163: Whitney Heins - The Mother Runners

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Guest: Whitney Heins @themotherrunners

Show Notes:

Whitney Heins⁠ is the founder of ⁠The Mother Runners⁠, host of The Mother Runners podcast, and a UESCA-certified running coach based in Knoxville, Tennessee. I was recently a guest on Whitney's podcast, and I've been looking forward to having her on here ever since.

During this episode, sponsored by ⁠HUUG⁠ and ⁠Batch⁠, we talk about:

• Pivoting from the Carmel Marathon to the Kentucky Derby Marathon after Carmel was postponed six weeks
• Running through Churchill Downs and why she does NOT recommend the Kentucky Derby Marathon if you're chasing a PR
• How her dad — who was told he'd never walk again after being wounded in Vietnam — ran the Marine Corps Marathon every year and is the reason she became a runner
• Running her first marathon as a senior in college, a 3:29, on a Hal Higdon plan targeting 3:30, powered entirely by not knowing any better 😂
• Running Boston a couple of times, including the year her husband qualified, charged through the finish line screaming, and ended up in the medical tent
• The injury cycle she spent years stuck in — torn hamstrings, a labral tear, and the hard realization that her training wasn't the right fit for her body
• Misplacing her self-worth on race times and the mental work it took to untangle that
• Finding her current coach Nick Kostava at ⁠Running Explained⁠ and finally stacking two healthy marathon cycles back to back
• Starting The Mother Runners blog in 2019 because she couldn't find answers online that were written by people who had actually lived mom runner life
• Becoming a running coach because there weren't enough mom coaches who truly understood what mom life looked like
• What it was really like to be a one-woman-band TV journalist — covering manhunts alone in heels, interviewing governors, and walking into a trailer with 18 Chihuahuas and mounds of poop
• Why she barely scrolls Instagram and has a golden retriever account called ⁠Four Golden Life ⁠
• Her dad, now turning 80, who picked up Krav Maga at 71 and is absolutely crushing it
• What's next: a speed cycle this summer and the CNO Indianapolis Monumental Marathon in the fall — which means we will finally get to meet in real life!

Sponsor Details

• ⁠HUUG⁠ – Use code ALLYB for 15% off your order
• ⁠Batch⁠ – Use code FINISH for 30% off your first order (good on subscriptions too!)

Previous Guests Mentioned

• ⁠Jessica & Johnathan Jones⁠ – Episode 159
• ⁠Eileen Poore⁠ – Episode 17

Other Links

• ⁠The Mother Runners podcast⁠
• ⁠Follow Whitney on Instagram @themotherrunners⁠
• ⁠Follow me on Instagram @allytbrett_runs⁠
• ⁠Subscribe to Finish Lines & Milestones weekly newsletter⁠

This is a ⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠ podcast.

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

Whitney: I wish I could go back to where I didn't know anything, because when you know something, that's when these limits are placed on you.

Ally: Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast for everyday runners. I'm your host, Ally Brettnacher, and if you run, you're a runner, and every runner has a story. Join me each week as I share these stories, and we celebrate finish lines and milestones together. This week's episode is brought to you by Hugg, H-U-U-G.

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Thank you, Hugg, for supporting this podcast.

And before I get into this week's episode, congratulations again to everybody who completed the Full Mo 50K and the Carmel Marathon here in Central Indiana. It was such an amazing weekend. I just did a recap episode with my coach, Rachel Cinders, that you can find under the June episode of Catching Up With Coach.

And this week's guest was actually supposed to run the Carmel Marathon. Whitney Hines is the founder of The Mother Runners, a community and resource hub for running moms, and the host of The Mother Runners podcast. She's also [00:02:00] a USCA certified running coach, and a mom of two human kids and soon to be four golden retrievers.

Whitney and I were actually on each other's podcasts recently. I was on hers, And so this is a full circle moment getting to have Whitney on this podcast

We talk about that marathon pivot from Carmel to the Kentucky Derby Marathon. We talk about her dad who ran the Marine Corps Marathon every year and is the reason she's a runner. The injury cycle she spent years stuck in and how she finally got out of it.

The mental baggage she carried around, tying her self-worth to her race times, and what it was really like to be a one-woman band TV journalist chasing manhunts in heels. She is so fun. She is so wise. She's gonna be back in Indianapolis in November for the Monumental Marathon in the fall, and I know you're really gonna love this episode with Whitney

all right. Hello, and welcome to Whitney Heins.

Whitney: Welcome. Welcome to myself. I am so happy to be here chatting with you, Ally. [00:03:00] Always. Always.

Ally: fun. I'm so excited.

Whitney: I'm gonna make it really boring. No, I'm just kidding.

Ally: Yeah, right. Not possible. I mean, based on our just prerecorded conversations, you and I could chat for forever, and were so kind to have me on your podcast, The Mother Runners podcast, recently, which was really fun. And so I can't wait to, yeah, now turn the mic on you, and I get to ask you all the questions.

Whitney: You can make fun of my state 'cause I feel like Indiana, made a few jokes about corn and, um

Ally: True. But, I mean, we had that coming a little bit. But I'm trying to see, like, what would I say about Tennessee?

Whitney: Um,

Ally: cool. I don't know what to

Whitney: it i-

Ally: about Tennessee.

Whitney: is a cool state. I have come to love it very much. I mean, I'm not from here, but I do love it, and now every once in a while I'll stumble upon a, a reel or something on Instagram, and I'm like, "Where is... That's beautiful with the lakes and the rolling hills and lush green." I'm like, "Oh, wait, this is where I live.

This is East Tennessee." So anyways.

Ally: funny. Yeah. Well,

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: random. [00:04:00] I just watched an episode on Netflix of the worst, what is it called? Worst Ex Ever, and it was based in Knoxville, so you have to go watch it.

Whitney: What? Okay, is this a, is this a dark show or what is this?

Ally: Yeah, it's kinda dark. It's about people's exes who end up being, like, really nuts.

Whitney: Okay.

Ally: real nuts. Sometimes murderers, sometimes just, you know, some abuse.

But it's crazy. It's one of those, like, real crime.

Whitney: And it happened in... See, now you're, you're just, you're very subliminally making fun of my state.

Ally: Right now I'm like, "Oh, you wanna talk about Indiana? Well, I just watched an episode about Knoxville where this guy was a total psycho." So anyway.

Whitney: Who do I need to be on the lookout for?

Ally: Yeah, I don't know. I think, you know, he's in jail at least till 2040, so we're good for a while.

Whitney: Okay.

Ally: I love this so much. Okay, that's not what I intended. Um,

Whitney: Sorry. My fault.

Ally: not your fault at all. I brought it up ' cause I was like, "What do I know about Knoxville?" That's now top of my mind. So how did you end up in Knoxville?

Where were [00:05:00] you from originally?

Whitney: I moved around quite a bit as a kid, but I landed here for a TV news job.

Ally: Okay,

Whitney: Yes, and they call Knoxville the Couch City because people come not intending to stay, and then they get comfortable and they end up staying, which is ex- exactly what happened to me, and my parents actually ended up moving here, cause my siblings, one's in Chicago and one is in Cleveland, Ohio, and I think they wanted to be south where the weather is nicer.

Ally: Yeah, makes

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah.

Ally: Yeah. Yeah,

Whitney: I lived in Indiana for a year 'cause I went to IU for a year. Um, I grew up in

Ally: That's right

Whitney: Chicago, so I, I, I've moved around a lot, but I really, I do love Tennessee.

Ally: Well, I've never been to Knoxville, and now that you've described the lakes and rolling hills, I need to put that on my list. It would be a nice place to visit, for sure.

Whitney: Okay, well, you have a place to stay. As long as you're good... I know you have a beautiful, adorable golden doodle. We have lots of dogs and chaos, but you're welcome to stay here [00:06:00] amongst our chaos.

Ally: I'm glad you brought up the dogs because are there four of them yet, or is that still coming?

Whitney: I love that people know that it's coming. It's... We pick her up in a few weeks. So yes, we have three young golden retrievers, and we're adding a fourth to our collection so that we have all the colors.

Ally: Yeah, so it's funny, you have more dogs than human children, which

Whitney: Yes.

Ally: love. It's so great. They're so cute.

Whitney: The... Yeah, there's a lot of pluses to it, I think, as a parent because it, I mean, I cannot do it all by myself, so I have to have the kids help me, and I think it teaches them a lot of sympathy and empathy, and the dogs get into trouble a lot. I mean, last weekend they got, found a first aid kit and ate one of those instant cold packs and so, you know, they're learning how to a- how to act in situations like that or how not to act.

So I just feel like there's a lotta little lessons that you wouldn't think about when you're taking care of so many [00:07:00] little... You know, I mean, this is the life that we chose. We love them. They bring a lot of joy.

Ally: Yeah, I mean, okay, so did-- Is your oldest one older than your oldest kid? Like, have you had those dogs longer than you've had your children, or did they all come after?

Whitney: They, so we had two older dogs, and, our, our golden doodle was 16. She passed away right before Christmas. And so our two older dogs, they shattered our hearts, and so the way that we are helping with the grief, there's one behind me right now, is now we're just collecting them.

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: the three that we have now, our two are younger, like, and 'cause we adopted them, so we got them a little bit...

They were out of the little, little puppy stage, and my daughter has wanted a puppy, puppy, and so I, we agreed, and so that's what.

Ally: one is that? Who's

Whitney: So this is Nikki.

Ally: Oh, hey, Nikki. He's like,

Whitney: And she's- She's out 'cause my husband's coming home, so she's gonna go greet him, so it might get loud here in a minute. So

Ally: it's all

Whitney: yeah, this is, this is what we're doing here in Tennessee.

We're collecting dogs.

Ally: Yeah. Well, I think I told [00:08:00] you this. My dog is 12, and so we're getting close to that stage where obviously he's gonna cross the rainbow road or bridge or whatever, and I'm not ready for that, and I really want a puppy, but I'm not winning that argument,

Whitney: Oh, you're not. Your husband is not

Ally: No. It, I mean, we are, it's, it is a tough time to have a puppy, but, I mean, we'd figure it out. Doug would show him the ropes. So it'd

Whitney: Wait, your dog's name is, is Doug?

Ally: Yes, Doug.

Whitney: Oh my gosh, I love human names for dogs.

Ally: Yeah, me too. Nikki's really cute. I love that.

Whitney: That was her- she was supposed to be Greta, but when we got her they were like, "Her name is Nikki." And so I said, "Okay, she's Nikki." Doug. Doug the do- Doug the doodle. The doodle dog.

Ally: We, I call him Designer Doug because, you know,

Whitney: a...

Ally: not adopted. He is from the, straight from the breeder, Designer Doug. okay, yeah. All right, dogs. Oh, I just love that you love dogs so much. Do any of them run with you, by the way?

Whitney: Yeah, I take two of them, well, one at a time, on my easy days. They're good runners. [00:09:00] Nikki, she is- she's- looks like a designer dog. I mean, if you put in ChatGPT, "Show me a golden retriever," they would show you Nikki. She's just- she's like, "I, I'm too good for running." She does not do it.

Ally: It's

Whitney: just wanna look pretty."

Yeah.

Ally: So congratulations on making such a great pivot for your marathon, because

Whitney: Thank

Ally: listened to our episode on your podcast, they will have heard, or if they follow you, they know that you were training for the Carmel Marathon, which got moved a whole six weeks.

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: but you pulled an audible and ran the Kentucky Derby Marathon.

So walk us through that whole journey.

Whitney: I'm disappointed that I didn't get to meet you in real life, 'cause that was part of the plan, and you were gonna help me get past mile 20 and not have my legs die. Um, s- which they did do in Louisville, or Louisville, however you say it. But

Ally: People from, people from Tennessee probably say Louisville. I

Whitney: Louisville. I know. I, I kept saying Louisville 'cause I thought that's how you were- if you're from the town, that's how you [00:10:00] say it. My husband was like, "I don't think that's right." But we also disagreed over how to say Carmel, 'cause people wanna say Carmel.

Ally: Oh yeah, it's Carmel,

Whitney: That's what I said.

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: He also disagreed with me, so I'll have to tell him he was wrong.

Ally: wrong.

Whitney: There you go. Um, so yeah. I was very much looking forward to running Carmel, 'cause I ran my PR there three years ago, and then

had a long layoff for a labral tear and

yeah, the two days beforehand, three days beforehand, they canceled it, or they postponed it six weeks for storms, potential storms. And, looking at your Instagram videos from that morning of an epic downpour, I am glad I was not running in that

Ally: was pretty gross,

Whitney: Yeah, I would, I would not have wanted to run in that.

I'd rather push it back a week. so had to figure out another marathon that was within driving distance to do close by, that worked with our family's schedule, and so found the Kentucky Derby Marathon. [00:11:00] And I think, I mean, there were so many wins from that race, and I just really had to shift the goal.

The goal for Carmel was a time goal. I was training for a specific time. and then when I had to pivot and extend my taper and do a course that was hilly in the mid- very, very hilly in the middle, but I trained zero hills. and it was also designed so that thousands of half marathoners merged with the marathoners at mile 18, and so just, like, groups of people were stopping and walking in front of me going through their aid stations.

made it very, very difficult. Yes.

Ally: I've never heard of such a thing.

Whitney: yes. And I, at the time, I was- it happened that a friend of mine was running it. She had been on my podcast, Erica Hopper. We ran the first 20 miles together, and it was great, and we were the lead two women. And so we had a cyclist next to us who warned us about the cluster that w- we were about to go into, and they tried to get people out of our way.

And then, um, a group of [00:12:00] half marathoners came between us, and I watched her go away. And at that point, then my legs were just starting to go, and I just didn't have it in me to weave and dodge through these people to catch back up to her. And I think that really, that was a lesson to me that running with people, especially in the later stages of a race, really helps me mentally.

I think I would have stayed in it more. But the whole exercise was, wonderful for me to kinda let go. You know, I- you try to perfect everything you can, especially going into a race, and then to have it just completely changed on you. I think it was a, a really good mental exercise for me to just remember to relax and keep it fun and don't stress the small stuff.

And my dad, who's turning 80 this summer, who is the reason why I'm a runner in the first place, it worked out that he got to go and be my crew. And I can't remember the last time that he and I have spent that much time together. I think it's been since we went on college tours when I was in high school.

So that was really special,

Ally: [00:13:00] is

Whitney: too. Yeah. Yeah. cause I know, like y- you understand 'cause y-

Ally: I

Whitney: dad, you and your dad run together. So, I mean, there were so many wins, and it, it just helps me too to let go of the time. Every race is not about a time on a clock. and even if you don't get the outcome that you trained for, that doesn't mean that it's a step back.

You still gain so much from that race experience, including fitness, and you can j- you can keep going forward. it's not like this timestamp of, okay, well, this is your starting point for the next race, you know? You're still building. And that was ... And I sh- I should have known that. I mean, this is something I've been doing for a long time.

I'm a running coach. But I, in, for myself, I did not know that. I still was viewing these races as this is a benchmark, and even though it wasn't the time that I wanted, I'm so glad that it unfolded that way because I learned so much from everything just being thrown for a loop on me.

Ally: Well, it's such a good example of how you can take something that was really, [00:14:00] in the moment probably so disappointing and frustrating like, turning it into something positive. I think sometimes that's really hard to do. When people just sit in the, the suck and just, you know, "Woe is me," but, I mean, how else are you gonna move forward and improve unless you can, can change it like that?

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: How did, When you found out... I tell you? I can't remember if I accidentally told you or not.

Whitney: Uh, you told me right after I saw it. I think I was, I think I was record- oh, no, I had talked to my coach. I was talking to my coach, going through my race plan, feeling so good about the race, and we ended the call, and I opened up Instagram, and I saw the Instagram announcement. But I wasn't getting the race email, so you had gotten the email, so I asked you to forward me.

I don't know. They weren't even in my spam, so I'm not sure where they were headed. But yeah, um, I th- I just went, you know, you can't control it. it is what it is, so I just went into action mode of, okay, let's, what's my plan B gonna be? And there was another [00:15:00] race in Ohio that weekend, but it, it was a small race, but it was flat, and the weather was perfect.

But everybody from Carmel went to that race, so it filled up within like 15 minutes or something, I think. yeah, it was just kinda, okay, well, let's, what's the new plan? Let's get on board.

Ally: Well, thank goodness it all worked out and you were able to race,

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: you-- I know it wasn't the time you wanted, but you, and you mentioned your friend, you guys got first and second place for

Whitney: Yeah. Which was,

Ally: cool.

Whitney: it is very fun. That is very cool. but that last 10K was rough. It was so rough.

Ally: I can't believe they have a race where they merge like that in a, in a way that would impede your ability to maneuver the course. That just seems really silly to

Whitney: It- I don't know why they don't have cones separating the half-marathoners and marathoners. And when the race director reached out for... 'Cause you did get to win money, so that was nice. But when he reached out, I was kinda hoping for an in to make a suggestion of how they could maybe design it [00:16:00] differently, but he didn't seem like he wanted any feedback, so I didn't give it to him.

Ally: I know those kind of people where it's like, "Well, I could give him this feedback," but he's like, "Nope, this is how my race works, and it's been working the way it's working," and okay.

Whitney: Yeah. I mean, it was a super fun race. You get to run through Churchill Downs. You saw the horses. There's, I mean, it was 12,000 people. I- there were people pretty much through the whole race course, except for where it's hilly, where you're in this park that's reminiscent of Central Park, where it's, there's lots of switchbacks and big hills and- but it's very pretty.

So I do recommend it if, if you're not going for a PR.

Ally: Time. Okay, that

Whitney: Yep.

Ally: sense. I didn't realize you got to run through Churchill Downs. I mean, it makes sense, I

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: the Indy Mini goes through our speedway.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was cool.

Ally: So when you run through Churchill Downs, you're on the part... You're not like on the track, like

Whitney: No.

Ally: Yeah. So you're like around the grounds, just like around... I've never been there.

Whitney: Yeah, I hadn't either. You go down, just down this tunnel into [00:17:00] it, and then there's a road that goes along the track, or I don't even- it might even just be, like, their practice area. I don't know what you call

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: But you, yeah, and you just kinda run alongside it at a- and, and it's probably for, I don't even know, not even a mile, maybe 400 yards actually.

Ally: Okay. Okay.

Whitney: Yeah. But it was cool.

Ally: Cool. And you've been running, Whitney, since you were six,

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: entire life.

Whitney: It's been a part of my life since I was six. My dad would run the Marine Corps Marathon every year, and so he would get us up to run with him. he'd come into our rooms and throw clothes at us and say, like, "Dress warmly," you know. but I actually really enjoyed it, so he would enter me into little road races, and I did well.

And then, you know, like most of us, kinda go off and do other sports. So I do- I did soccer for a while, and then I got in trouble for talking all the time, [00:18:00] and I would have to run laps. And so I decided, okay, well, maybe I'll just run instead. My dad wants me to be a runner anyway, so, that's what I did.

And so I went back into it in high school, and then when I- Graduated. I, I kept running. I did not run for a college. but I kept running. Did my first marathon in college, and then when I graduated, still ran every day, but running races and stuff took a backseat because my job was as a TV newscaster. I worked crazy hours.

So it wasn't until after I had my second child, I think he was about a year, that I got a running coach and started to kind of figure out what I was doing. before then it was the Hal Higdon, Jeff Galloway plans. I did ridiculous stuff where, I think I told you I ran 30 miles as a training run in college because I didn't know.

I was like, "You should run further than the race, so why not?" [00:19:00] so yeah, that's when I kinda took it more seriously and

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: knew to do workouts and long runs and that sort of thing.

Ally: Yeah. Oh gosh. So I wanna go back to your dad for a second too and the Marine Corps Marathon, 'cause that ended up being your first marathon,

Whitney: Yes,

Ally: correct?

Whitney: that is

Ally: he was a Marine,

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: you said you kinda moved around a lot, I'm assuming, is being part of a military family?

Whitney: You would think, but no, he was actually done. and it was for his job. He was in corporate America, yeah, so we moved around. Uh, you know, every time he'd get a new position or a promotion, we'd move.

Ally: Okay, and is he still running at 80?

Whitney: you would hope so. He was running on a treadmill. Gosh, how old would he have been? Maybe 60. And somebody hid an exercise ball, and it hit a, hit the treadmill and stopped it abruptly, and he fell off and it just completely obliterated his knee. so, so he cannot run anymore, but he does work out [00:20:00] every day.

He picked up, Krav Maga

Ally: Wow.

Whitney: nine years ago, 'cause he picked it up when they mo- they moved here right when my son Cal was born, and he could tell he was being, in his words, that he was becoming a, a soft target, and so he picked up Krav Maga. Now he's like, I mean, he's a, he's badass at it, and

Ally: I love

Whitney: it's insane.

It's so cool, and I think it's so cool that he picked up this new sport, for lack of a better term, at 71 and just went all in, and, I just think that that's so awesome to, to just show that, like, age is just a number, and we can keep learning and growing and being active, and we don't have to become more sedentary the older we become.

So yeah, he does not- And it's so funny 'cause when he ran marathons, it's so different than how it is now. I mean, they didn't have super shoes. They didn't have gels. He was running- Right ... in a cotton T-shirt, you know?

Ally: Yep,

Whitney: different.

Ally: Yeah, absolutely. I cannot believe the end of his running career was because of an exercise [00:21:00] ball at a gym. That is crazy story.

Whitney: It really is. I know.

Ally: Really traumatizing.

Whitney: I know. And, and his story too is, like, he was never supposed to run again because he was in Vietnam. He was very badly wounded, and he was at Bethesda Naval Hospital, for a long time, and the doctor that was at the hospital said, " you'll never be able to run again. I don't know if you'll be able to walk again."

And then I think the first year he ran Marine Corps, it might have been when Ronald Reagan was shot, and it happened to be the same doctor, and there he wa- you know, and my dad's in DC. or it might have been the same year, but it's around that time. And he saw him on TV, and here he is training and going on to run a marathon when he was never supposed to run again, and he sees the same doctor.

So I don't know. It's just, it's, it's kinda crazy. I, and it's like I know this stuff, but I forget it, and so I do relish the opportunity that he and I got to catch up and go down memory lane too during this race. So it was, it was a cool [00:22:00] experience for any- I mean, I guess, you know, I could have run, like, a 10-hour marathon, but it'd still be worth it because I got to spend that time with him.

Ally: it's so special. I, I think I told you, yeah, on our episode together. It's like I've spent some time with my dad because of running, and it is really special. You don't really think about the fact you're like, "Wow, when's the last time we actually, you know, hung out for a weekend together?" It's

Whitney: Oh, yeah.

Ally: Yeah, it just doesn't happen.

Whitney: Well, no, 'cause it's all about the kids when you become a parent.

Ally: Absolutely. Yeah. And so he was your crew. I- did I read you he was supposed to get you a water bottle at some point and missed? What,

Whitney: I think the roads were shut down, and it was just really hard to get anywhere 'cause Erica, her husband didn't show up either, and she was like, "I was about to be really pissed at him, but because your dad didn't make it either, I'll give him a pass."

Ally: Yeah. Well, I mean, come on, if, yeah, can you imagine if your 80-year-old dad is standing there and her husband hadn't figured it out? You'd be like, "That would be bad." But that's so amazing that your, like, I mean, 80, chasing you around, trying to chase you around a marathon course is really [00:23:00] impressive.

Whitney: Yeah. He was wa- he walked everywhere. I mean, he- I, I did get to see him at mile 20, and he had walked there. So it was really funny when we got back to the hotel room. He was like, "Honey, I gotta sit down. I'm probably more tired than you are."

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: You

Ally: Yeah, probably.

Whitney: probably are.

Ally: Dad.

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: should get a medal too. Yeah. Gosh. is insane. So, okay, after Marine Corps that you did while you were in

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: you didn't do another marathon until after kids? Is that right? When you said you kind of started figuring it out, or did you do other races in between?

Whitney: I would hop in local races now and again, but when I met my husband-- So I didn't run any... No, I did. I met my husband and we, he was just getting into running at the time, so we signed up for races that were pretty to go to. Like, we did Cape Cod, we did,

Ally: cool.

Whitney: Mount Desert Island, which is crazy hard course.

Ally: Where is that?

Whitney: it is in Maine.

It goes- Oh. Yes. it's [00:24:00] beautiful, but very challenging. And I did Boston a couple times, but it was still, I didn't, we didn't know what we were doing. so it, those were just, they were for fun. I mean, ran a lot. I ran a lot, but it was, most of it was junk miles,

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: Just...

Ally: just r- you just throw in that you just ran, you know, I just ran Boston a couple times, like no big deal. I mean, for, for normal p- I mean, even like me, I'm chasing that BQ at some point. Did you BQ your first marathon or how did you end up in Boston? First marathon.

Whitney: It's kinda crazy. I had a, I think it was a Hal Higdon plan for a 330, and this is, I was a senior in college in DC, and I ran a 329.

Ally: Well, how did you even know to pick 330? I

Whitney: I don't know. Good question. That's a good question. I have no idea. Ig- I really think ignorance is bliss

Ally: Yeah,

Whitney: running.

Ally: right.

Whitney: mean, when you, like you, I'm sure you heard about that girl that [00:25:00] ran Flying Pig and she forgot to turn... Okay, she for- she was supposed to do the half, and she missed the turn, and then she ran 26.2 miles.

Ally: I

Whitney: I don't know. I just think when w- I wish I could go back to where I didn't know anything, because when you know something, that's when these limits are placed on you.

Ally: like, "Oh, I could absolutely never in a million years do that." And

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: flying by the seat of her pants just running marathons on accident. crazy to me. I, I, ugh, I just can't even fathom that. Yeah. Oh, to be young. How--

Whitney: Oh, I know.

Ally: was she?

Whitney: She looked young. I wanna say she was probably mid, low 20s maybe.

Ally: Yeah. So did you and your husband get to go to Boston together? Did you experience that together?

Whitney: We did. It was kinda fun. So we went, uh, one year, and my dad, my parents were up there. And my husband at the time, he ran, but he was real- he was a bigger guy who was into lifting weights. And he said to my dad, " I wanna qualify for Boston." And my dad looked at him and said, "A [00:26:00] guy your size, he could never qualify."

And so Jake stops lifting weights, and he started running, and sure enough, he qualified later that year.

Ally: later that year.

Whitney: So then we ran it, and I don't remember the years. when was the bombing? 2014?

Ally: 2013,

right?

Whitney: we ran it the year before the bombing, I think.

Ally: Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one.

Whitney: yeah. And so, so then we got to run it, the following year, maybe two years later. I think it was the following year. The cutoff date was different. Things have changed so much. I think he had to get a 3:10 and he ran a 3:0... No. I, I think-- I don't remember.

But he just made it and he passed out, and my dad was there. I had to work 'cause I was in TV news and it was like you had to be dying to get a day off. And my dad was there and he told him, he was like, "You're, you better hustle. You're about to not make it." And he yelled out this scream and he charged through the finish line [00:27:00] and then he collapsed and ended up in the medical tent.

Ally: And that's how you leave it all out there.

Whitney: Right. I- he and I have had, kinda heated discussions where he's kinda like, "Whitney, you haven't tried your hardest until you pass out at a finish line and end up in a medical tent."

Ally: Yeah, you're

Whitney: And I'm like, "I don't know."

Ally: yeah." I mean, the whole, like, PR or ER concept, like I totally get and appreciate, but you're like but I, don't really wanna go to the ER." I mean...

Whitney: I've never heard that, PR or ER.

Ally: I heard that first from my friend Eileen, who is, like, such a badass. So I'm like, man, yeah, she's just, like, pushing it to the limit. 'Cause yeah, I've never-- I've been in the medical tent before

after a race

but it's more like I just couldn't catch my breath. I was overwhelmed, I think, more so than, like, actual truly needing like, actual medical attention. So yeah.

Whitney: don't know. I've only-- I ended up in one in Bar Harbor, Maine with a torn hamstring and hypothermia. So,

Ally: yeah, you needed to [00:28:00] go. Yeah.

Whitney: like when I say that r- race was tough, it was tough. It's beautiful, but...

Ally: Whitney, hypothermia and a torn

Whitney: There was like a nor'easter or something crazy that was blowing through. It was h- yeah. Anyways. Again, to be young, you know. He bounced back from that and just keep going.

Ally: Yeah. Wow. Okay. So throughout your pregnancies and, like, having kids, are you just running to stay in shape at that point versus, like, you're not, you're not chasing PRs or anything like that? And then you said it was your second kid was about one when you started to kinda get back into it, to, like, really think about it?

Whitney: That's when the fire was lit. Yeah, I had started running with this mom in my neighborhood who had just qualified for the Olympic trials, and so she kind of put that dream in my heart, and she said, "You should have-- You should be coached by my coach," who I actually knew, and so that's kind of [00:29:00] how it all started.

So that was 2018. Yeah, Cal was born in 2017. That was 2018. And then I went all in 2019 and fell into an injury cycle, 'cause I

decided.

last, minute to run the Knoxville Marathon. I did well. I finished second actually behind my friend who had qualified for the trials, and my coach at the time, that was the last qualifying year for the 2020 Olympics, and he was like, "Well, you should try to qualify."

And so we went all in and doubled my mileage, and I tore a hamstring in that build. But because I had put so much into it, I still wanted to shoot my shot in Indy, so I did. And then I tried to keep rehabbing and running, and it was not working, so then I hung up my shoes for about a year. And then after that, I struggled 'cause I would come back.

I wanted to get back to where I was. I wanted to get that time, and then something else would tear. In me, it's tearing. I would tear something, and then have to take another six months to 12 months off. So, that [00:30:00] was, that was my running story until, 2024. My last injury was 2023 Carmel. tore my labrum.

2024, I came back and spent, like, the whole year of 2024 just running base miles, then found my coach in 2025, Nick Kostava at Running Explained, and he totally got me and my journey and, he understood the mental aspect. It wasn't just programming the appropriate workouts. He's able to call me out when I'm starting to kind of go back to my old habits.

So I've been able to train and do two marathon cycles with him. I've never been able to healthily stack two cycles, so that's been incredible. So I did Chicago in the fall, and that one was just rip the Band-Aid off, and then I did Kentucky Derby, and then I am doing Indy, and I'll get to see you, right?

Ally: I

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: yes. I know, w- I think... Okay, so I meant to say at the beginning, we're in the same podcast network, right?

Whitney: Right, yes.

Ally: So for people, I'm, you know... And so Lindsay's gonna [00:31:00] be here, and then I think Carolyn is gonna be here,

Whitney: Oh, cool.

Ally: um, Inspired Souls podcast. And so I'm like, okay, for our live show, we've got like all four of us.

What can we do? It's gonna be... Although you're gonna be running a marathon, so we won't... But it'll be after the marathon,

Whitney: Will it be after? Okay.

Ally: yeah. Yeah, it'll be a celebration event. That's what we did last year, which worked out really nicely,

Whitney: That's so much better. Yeah.

Ally: Like, the race is done. Let's celebrate, if you're still standing. And you know. Yeah,

Whitney: Oh, awesome. Okay, good. Yes, I'm so excited. I didn't know that all four of us were gonna be there.

Ally: Yeah,

Whitney: Four?

Ally: well, it's, I'm pretty sure,

Whitney: Five? Count, yeah.

Ally: That's

Whitney: four, four. Like, wait a minute.

Ally: was like one, two. Okay. Yes. Math. Okay, so Indy in the fall. I mean, we, in Indy, we're gonna sell out earlier than we ever have this year,

Whitney: Yeah, it's the hot race.

Ally: it is really... I mean, we continue to, uh, just improve, and I'm so excited for, the momentum of, of the race to continue, 'cause it's such a good, flat, fast course.

Whitney: Well [00:32:00] organized,

Ally: yeah.

Whitney: people are friendly, there's corn.

Ally: There's corn, lots of corn.

Whitney: Sorry.

Ally: So good. No, I, I told you, it was during that race I got passed by somebody in corn. I, I, yeah, it's, a lot. It's a lot, the corn is. Yeah. I was gonna ask you, Whitney, about, you know, all the injury cycle that you experienced too with your previous coach. Not to put that coach on blast necessarily, but I thought, "Oh, you switched coaches." And it's like, how do you know it's the right time to change coaches? And it seems like perhaps you realized, "Well, this isn't working. This type of training is not working for my body very well." but I don't wanna take the words out of your mouth.

So how did you know that it was time to change things?

Whitney: y- I should've changed a lot sooner than I did. My previous coach is a great coach, but you're right, his training did not fit with my body. He- now, he was a, he was a Marine, so I think it was like, he's very structured, rigid schedule. That's how I like to operate. And so [00:33:00] it was kind of neither one of us did well deviating from the schedule for different reasons, illness, something's hurting.

And, I had a re- a really hard time listening to my body with that training. But it was a local coach, so it was a big community and it's- we would meet at the track on Tuesdays and Thursdays and do long runs when it worked with my schedule together. And, so it was that final injury where I was like, "Okay, This is not working. This is too much for my body. I can't hack it." And for the longest time I would beat myself up, though. I was like, "Why am... Oh, how can it work for other people? Why am I so weak that I, I'm feeling..." I mean, I really feel like I was riding the red line a lot with my training.

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: and why do I keep breaking?

And so I thought it was a me problem instead of realizing that it was just this- every- everybody has to find their right formula, and that formula was not for me. And so I did kind of coach shop a little bit, where I- Had a [00:34:00] couple of great coaches, but they were not the right one for me because I really needed somebody to understand my, my mental baggage.

And so Nick is that for me. I need somebody- There are... I mean, I'm a running coach, so I know every athlete's different. Some people just want the schedule, and they don't need somebody to hold their hand or give them re- feedback and reinforcement and explain the purpose of a workout. and some really need that.

And I don't need that a lot, but I, I need to have access to that when I'm feeling lost or confused or dealing with self-doubt, so.

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: So I just think, yeah, if, as far as trying to find a new running coach, I think, if that idea is coming into your head repeatedly, there's a reason. And as a running coach myself, I've learned to not take it personally when somebody decides to go in a different direction or even just that they [00:35:00] want a break because you can feel boxed in when you're on a, on a schedule.

because I, I've had, I've- the, some of the coaches that I worked with were, they're amazing coaches, but they just weren't the right match for me at this stage in the game.

Ally: Yes. I think that's such good advice for people who, yeah, either already have a coach or are considering looking for a coach. I mean, there's so many different coaches out there

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: great, and I think it's important to take the time to make sure you, you mesh. I think you either know, you know right away, I think, in a conversation with somebody whether or not you're gonna get along, and whether or not...

Like, personality-wise, I think that's the first test

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: if that doesn't work, then I don't think you're gonna be motivated enough by that person, at least I wouldn't be.

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: so

Whitney: Yeah, it's just, it's such a mental sport and it, it can, you can feel very vulnerable in it, too. So I, personally, I just think you wanna work with somebody who understands you. And I always, if somebody comes to me and they're like, "I'm not sure if we're the right match," I'm like, "Talk to any of my athletes and get their perspective so that you know what you're [00:36:00] getting into."

You know? Um, ' cause there are some times where it just is not a good match. You're too different and, So it, it's, you are entering into a relationship.

Ally: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, and I know for, like, a coach too, there's gotta be athletes that you wanna fire or have fired, you know? It's like, if you're not gonna do,

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: help somebody get to the next level. You don't want somebody just to pay you and then not do anything. I mean, at

Whitney: Or not listen to you

Ally: listen to you, and get injured,

Whitney: and-

Ally: Yeah. And you're like, "Okay, well, that's not what I told you to do. Now people are gonna think, you know, I coached you into this over-training and injury."

Whitney: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Ally: Yeah, absolutely. So or when you say mental baggage. And, and here, here comes, here comes the pun, okay? If you could unpack that a little bit

Whitney: Ooh.

Ally: You like that? But I was just thinking, well, what do you...

Could you help explain what you mean by that?

Whitney: Yeah. Okay. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Lay down on the couch.

 

Marker

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Whitney: Yeah. Okay. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Lay down on the couch. No, I'm just kidding. I think I was a career-focused person. I was going to be this famous TV newscaster. I was gonna be on cable news. I mean, that was what my goal was, going to college, graduating. And then I decided that [00:39:00] I wanted to have a family and

got out of TV news when I watched the other

TV anchors and seeing them balance everything and realize, like, that is not something that I want to deal with.

So I got into public relations, and I tried going back to work after Eleanor was born and being away from her, and it just, it never got easier. It only felt harder, and I really, really missed her, and I wanted to be home with Eleanor. and so then I worked from home, and Cal comes into the mix, and I just think I felt a loss of, my identity.

like now I'm, I'm just, just a stay-at-home mom, which I freaking hate that.

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: But i- you know, I was still working, but I just really struggled with that. I needed something for myself that made me feel good and capable and empowered and, picking up messes all day and dealing with screaming kids.

I mean, now there's obviously any mom listening knows it is the most wonderful job, but it's, it is [00:40:00] the hardest job. Biggest cliché ever. Very, very true. And so I think I attached running to, okay, this is where you can find your self-worth. This is where you can do things where people are like, "Oh, wow.

Ally: yeah.

Whitney: Whitney's special because she does this, and she runs these fast times." And when this dream of running an OTQ was put into my heart for the marathon, that it just took on a life of its own. and so I really misplaced my self-worth on running these certain times, and then I tore my hamstring, and I was still trying to run these certain times, and it was just like beating my head against the wall.

And it-- And instead of feeling joyful, running became just like this mode of self-flagellation where I do a run, and I didn't hit my paces because I'm dragging my leg behind me, and So my-- kinda like my knee-jerk with running and trying to accomplish these times kept going back to, like, doing it for other people, doing it to impress other people, doing it to feel [00:41:00] like I belong in the running community.

Then when I found the Mother Runners, like, doing it to feel legitimate in this space. People will respect me if I have this certain number attached to my name. and so I had to really work to unravel all that and realize that just because I can run a certain distance in a certain amount of time does not give me any more worth than if I, you know, ran it in twice as m-much time.

I'm not sure if that makes sense, but that's really... I was looking for somebody to help me stay attached to that, that my self-worth is not running, and s- and hold me accountable so that I am doing it in a way that is fulfilling, healthy, and sustainable.

Ally: Yeah. Hmm. Yes. Yeah. No, it makes a lot of sense. I feel like Part of the reason why in the last couple years I haven't chased a PR is because I, I don't know why I was doing that to myself.

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: I wasn't enjoying it as much. Like, yes, I feel [00:42:00] so accomplished, but I was like, "I don't wanna do that every race." because the internet makes you feel like everybody's getting PRs all the time doesn't mean that that's what you have to do. I'm like, "I should do this for fun, for other..." You know, the way that I've done it, we've talked about. So yeah, I totally get it, and that has to take some time. It still has to be hard, I'm sure.

Especially, you know, like you said, you've set big goals for yourself still,

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: chasing them. So what do you think-- is it different now? Like, what do you-- What work do you feel like you've done that's worked to get your mind in a place where you can enjoy it even while you're still chasing goals that you've set?

Whitney: Um, I think there's two things. One, I'm just not rushed. That I just felt like I was rushed, a-and realizing that if I love the process, truly love the process, why am I rushing through the process? Because even if I get my goal, I'm not going to stop. There's gonna be a new goal to chase down. and In a similar vein, just staying very [00:43:00] vague with my goals.

Yes, I have an idea of the pace I want to run and an idea of a time I want to get, but there's no hard and fast time. And, another thing is just looking at the big picture and how I feel as a mom when I'm training. If I am feeling totally fatigued, cranky, stressed, running is the main focus, mom guilt because I feel like I'm out of balance because I'm running too much and then, uh, my kids are getting a lesser mom, that keeps me in check, too.

Like,

Ally: Hmm.

Whitney: after I ran Kentucky Derby and my legs completely gave out on me in that la- the last six miles, I started to think. I'm like, "Well, Cause should I start doing double? Should I look into this double threshold?" And then I step back and I'm like, "That does not work for our family. I want to get my run done and be done with it and not think about it the rest of the day."

That is, and so I take my runner [00:44:00] hat off and I am Mom, and that is what works best for our family and that's what makes me feel the best. And so just looking back into that summer of 2019 when I was running 100 miles a week, and I was so tired, and I just n- know that I was... I don't remember necessarily, like, being a mean mom or, but I know it was a lot more effort to be patient and to be the fun mom because I was so tired, and I d- I just, I don't wanna go back to that.

And so that keeps me in check.

Ally: Yeah. Oh, it's so relatable. Makes a lot of sense ' cause it's the same. You wanna be a strong mom,

Not a mom that's, yeah, completely worn down both mentally and physically.

Whitney: Yeah. I mean, I think it's a tough line to walk because it's like yes, you wanna be a strong mom, you wanna show your kids you can dream big and go after these big goals, but, like, there is a tipping point and it can take, I mean, it, it can be unhealthy if, if it becomes, like, the main focus of your life. I don't want my running, it is a factor in our [00:45:00] days, but I do not want it to be the main event that where everything is having to fit around Mom's training.

'Cause, I, I mean, again, too, it goes back to, like, I'm not a professional runner. I'm never going to be a professional runner. So why would, why would it be that way, you know? Like, it's, it's supplemental. It makes me feel good. It makes me happy. My kids are still learning all the same lessons, but it's not the main event.

Ally: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, it makes so much sense. I'm same. So 2019 was the year that you started the Mother Runners blog, correct?

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: what gave you the idea for that?

Whitney: When I was training for that marathon, which I think I decided like six weeks ahead of time, it was the, the local Knoxville marathon, I just was encountering a lot of challenges that I would Google and answers weren't popping up or you could tell that somebody else wrote it who hadn't lived it. and before that marathon build too.

But y- you know, like how do I keep my kids [00:46:00] in the stroller when all they wanna do is get out? Trying to figure out a nursing schedule and running, or how to deal with mom guilt, or just like weird things that were happening to my body while it's recovering postpartum. And there's more out there now, but even ba- back then, like there wasn't a lot out there about pelvic floor physical therapy, and rehab after having a baby and return to run postpartum.

Thank goodness there's way more resources out there. But I mean, I didn't know anything about pelvic floor PT after having Cal. Nobody talked about it. The only thing I worried...

Ally: actually.

Whitney: I,

Ally: to.

Whitney: I mean,

Ally: doctor.

Whitney: I finally did, because of all my injuries and like actually, a lot of my injuries are connected to my pelvic floor.

but yeah. I mean, so I couldn't find it, so I thought, " Well, I'm a journalist, you know, by trade, and, I wanna help other moms." I've always had this idea that I love running, I'm so passionate about [00:47:00] it, but I didn't like that it was so self-focused. Like, it just felt very selfish and I was like, how can I...

Like you with, you know, Ainsley's Angels, I'm like, what can I do? What skills can I have to give back to the running community, or just to, to help other people with this passion I have? And so I thought, "Well, here it is. I can work from home. I can use my journalism skills. I can help other moms feel less alone," 'cause I felt super isolated, especially with the mom guilt.

I felt so much mom guilt. And, and then when I talked to other moms, when I finally got out and was able to run with other moms, I realized, hey, I'm not the only one that feels this way. And so if there was a way for me to be the mouthpiece to show other mother runners, like, hey, you are not alone and you can, here are things that have helped other moms with these problems.

And keep doing it. Don't feel guilty, because it is making you better, and the lessons that you're teaching your kids are life-changing, for real. and so yeah. So that's how the blog started in that summer of 2019, and then I [00:48:00] think a year later I became a running coach because I had realized that there weren't a lot of moms who were running coaches at the time.

And with my running coach, when I told him Cal Was up all night 'cause he was sick his question to me would be like, "Well, are you sick? You can still go do your tempo." You know? Like, there was, there was not a lot of understanding of what mom life was like, so I thought, "Okay, well, I will get certified and I will fill that void."

and then the, and there, you know, it's evolved into an online community and And then I started my podcast. I had hosted another podcast for somebody else. Um, there was a running website called Runner Click, and I pa- and I hosted a podcast called The Passionate Runner for a while. and I started my own podcast this last fall because the blog had kind of...

Google changed its algorithm and now everybody's using AI, you know, it pushed it d- it pulls the AI snippets and it also prioritizes the big [00:49:00] advertisers, and so single author blogs just really got pushed down. So it was hard. Nobody was really reading my stuff anymore, and I thought-

Ally: you, can you give people a sense of, like, the numbers of what-- Like, the percentage, doesn't have to be actual, like, numbers, but... Because that was crushing.

Whitney: Oh, yeah. I mean, I think I have like 10% of the audience that I used to have. Yes, and I did everything. I took almost two years trying all... I mean, I rewrote everything on my site. I mean, I redid my site. I hired all these experts to try to... 'Cause there was a time where I was, it was Runner's World and the Mother Runners.

You know? Mm-hmm. Anything related to motherhood and running, preg- pregnant, you know, running while pregnant, postpartum, running with a stroller. So, I really tried and then I just threw in the towel and was like, "Okay, how can I meet people where they're at?" Well, moms are busy. lots of times they're running alone.

So why wouldn't I do a podcast? Especially since I love talking to people like you and sharing their stories. And [00:50:00] so that's how I started the podcast. So all that stuff is still online. and it's still a great, I think it's a great resource, but I rarely write any new content anymore, so...

Ally: That's such a-- so crazy that something like that can happen.

Whitney: It really wa- it happened o- it literally happened overnight. It was like October 19th, 2023 or something like that where it just, I looked in my Google Analytics and it had just tanked. And I was like, "Oh my, what the heck happened?"

Ally: like, "I'm sure it's just a fluke. It'll come back."

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: "No,

Whitney: And then it was nice, not nice, but it was validating talking to other bloggers where it it, it had happened to everybody.

I was like, "Okay."

Ally: nuts.

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: At what ti- at what point, Whitney, did you start your Instagram account?

Whitney: Uh, at the same time, summer of 2019. Mm-hmm.

Ally: Okay, same time as the blog. And so obviously that would then help, point people to the blog,

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: Yeah. And now you've grown, and you have a community of over [00:51:00] 25,000 people now. It's crazy.

Whitney: It is great. I don't play the game. Like, I'm not putting cute reels up there and- No

Ally: a great job, Whitney. Don't sell

Whitney: Oh, you're sweet. I don't think I do, but I don't know. I just, it's because I love to write, and the blog was a form of self-expression for me. That's kinda what the Instagram is, and then it's a way to share the podcast as well.

And then every Wednesday, I feature a Why I Run. You've been on it, where moms share the reasons why they run, which, I hope inspires people. And then also, if somebody's dealing with mom guilt, they can kinda step outside and see why they shouldn't feel that way for doing something for themselves that makes them better.

So, I do very much love it because I have... I've kept my circle kinda small on Instagram, where I have these relationships with people that, like, they feel like real-life friends even though we've never met in real life,

like you. [00:52:00] And I can connect with them in DMs and stuff, but I don't really scroll much.

I'll pay attention to people because somebody else has sent me their profile and they're like, "Oh, you should look at this person." Yeah. Um, just because I am prone to comparison, you know, that old Whitney is still in there, and when I see somebody doing incredible things, I suffer from the, "Well, why can't I do that?"

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: Why is it so hard? And it's like, well, maybe I could do that, but, like, why is it so hard for me to do X and somebody else? So, I don't scroll a lot on Instagram.

Ally: Wow. That's, that's some self-awareness right there, and some self-control. 'Cause I am the same way with comparison, and I do find myself at times being like, "Okay, well, why are... You know, good. Why are you doing

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: is the thief of joy.

Whitney: Hmm.

Ally: have all the information.

Most of it's fake, you know? So, I tell myself those things. I do get a lot of inspiration from it, which is,

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: convince myself it's okay. But I've also, started [00:53:00] putting parameters around it so that I don't find myself just, like, aimlessly scrolling, and obviously that's not good for anybody.

Whitney: Yeah, my... I mean, I can't say that I don't ever scroll, although it's mostly golden retrievers in my feed. But, we're circling back. Yeah. But I mean, I will- My parameter is if I'm scrolling and then something pops up and it makes me feel,

Ally: I'm

Whitney: like, just icky, then I'm like, " Okay, I'm out."

Ally: you.

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: have an Instagram?

Whitney: So I've started a, it's Four Golden Life since we're getting the fourth one.

Ally: Oh

Whitney: but I haven't, done a ton of stuff on it. It started hot and heavy and then it sort of tapered off 'cause my phone, my lens is always dirty and Jake's like, "You are..." My husband's like, "You are just really hurting our chances of succeeding at this Golden Retriever Instagram 'cause your content looks like crap."

Ally: Oh my gosh, that's so

Whitney: I need to get some wipes and I need to... Oh, and I'm looking at it, I'm like, oh, and there's cracks on my... I just need to [00:54:00] get a new phone and then, and then you can follow

Ally: make all the difference, yeah.

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: and I mean, once you get that fourth, oh my gosh, people are gonna be about that for Golden Life. That's amazing.

Whitney: wonder if people will stop following me on the Mother Runners 'cause they're gonna be like, "This was supposed to be a running account and she's just posting pictures and videos of her dogs all the time."

Ally: It's like, well, I feel like if you don't like that, then, you know,

Whitney: It's kinda- Yeah ... yeah, I, uh, finally got a doormat that says, "Hope you like dogs," just so people know what they're walking into. 'Cause it, I mean, if, if you are not a dog person you cannot come over to our house.

Ally: yeah, that's not gonna work.

Whitney: No.

Ally: absolutely. okay, I wanna talk a little bit more too about your journalist life. we kinda glossed over that period of time, but I wanna hear kinda, like, the, fun stories about what it's like to be on TV as a journalist. I mean, I have no clue what that's like.

Whitney: so it was, gosh, I don't even know where to begin. I mean, it was, it is crazy. It...

Ally: idol? Like, who did you say, [00:55:00] "I wanna be that type of, like, newscaster"? Was there a specific one that you,

Whitney: So yeah, Robin Meade did, headline news and I loved watching her, and I actually randomly got to meet her when I was at, like, a concert in downtown Atlanta or something.

Ally: Oh, that's cra-

Whitney: yeah, 'cause she's just really fun and bubbly, and she did the morning news and I did the morning news. I mean, back when I started I had to be what they call a one-man band, where the cameras were huge and the tripods were heavy, and you had to go out in the middle of nowhere and cover manhunts and just, like, this crazy stuff, just you talking in front of the camera like a, pardon me, but like a schizophrenic and, you know.

Then rush back to the station and- Try to edit everything yourself to get it ready in time, 'cause I would... I was a split reporter and anchor. So,

Ally: wild.

Whitney: like I, when I first got into it, I would go to [00:56:00] work sometimes at, like, 10:00 PM or midnight, and I would produce the morning show. Then I would anchor the morning show.

Then we'd do the cut-ins after, where the local news cuts into the, you know, Today Show. I was not NBC, so it was, like, CBS This Morning, and then whatever ABC was. We were actually three stations. We were Fox, CBS, and ABC, so I had to do all those three. And then we... Then I would go out and report and put together a story for the noon show.

and yeah. So that was what it was like when I lived in Charlottesville, Virginia. And then I moved to Knoxville, and I anchored the weekend morning news, and then I reported during the week. and yeah. I mean, it was... Sometimes it was really cool 'cause you're doing sit-downs with the governor, and then other times it's...

I remember, covering a manhunt, and I went into a, somebody's trailer to talk to her. Uh, I think it was a neighbor or something, and

I started looking around and just see that there's mounds of poop.

everywhere, and then, like, 18 Chihuahuas just come out from underneath the couch. I mean, it [00:57:00] was crazy stuff like that.

But I also covered a lot of... I mean, I covered heartwarming stories, but I covered a lot of just really tragic, awful, disturbing things.

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: And I had the foresight to know that I would not be able to compartmentalize that stuff as a mom.

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: I would not be able to leave that at work and come home, and so that was another reason.

W- It was like the quality of life is bad 'cause your schedule is crazy, and you have to really love it, and I was not loving it. at least local news. Maybe if I ever got to national news it would've been different. But local news, I did not like chasing the hard news and never knowing when I was gonna come home.

and it was... It felt very inhumane at times because we were competitive with the other stations, and so you felt pressure to, like, put a microphone in front of a mom's face who just lost her child and try to get this juicy sound bite out. I mean, it just felt awful, and that kind of stuff just didn't s- So it got to a point where every time I'd go to work [00:58:00] I had a searing migraine.

It was like my body was revolting against this job. so I got out. And it's funny, when news people talk it's like they were in a gang. They're like, "Yeah, I got out in '08," or whatever. So I got out, and on the flip side, did media relations for the University of Tennessee, and I was their science writer.

And so, I was able to be on the other side of things. So that was way better.

Ally: Crazy.

Whitney: it was cool 'cause I did get to meet a lot of people, and at my... I went to Georgetown, I studied politics, so I got to interview a lot of politicians, and that was cool. It was before the world went totally crazy and things were more conventional.

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: but yeah, it, it was, it was wild.

Ally: Yeah, I can't even, imagine that lifestyle, right? Like you... I mean, I've watched, like, The Morning Show on Apple TV, and

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: even close to what you dealt with because of being a one-man band. I mean, you see those big productions, and it's like, well, yeah, they have a person for absolutely

Whitney: [00:59:00] Yes.

Ally: and

Whitney: was not like that.

Ally: what's on the screen, right?

And versus, yeah,

Whitney: Yeah. I mean, there was a time where, I forget what the story was, but I had to drive out to the middle of nowhere by myself. Oh, I think there was like... It was, there were vicious dogs on the property and, and animal control was not able to catch these vicious dogs, and they sent me out there, and I'm by myself in heels with this heavy equipment

Ally: My God.

Whitney: and, um, trying to get videos and talk to neighbors about these vicious dogs.

Ally: stops.

Whitney: and I, I think there was one, I think it was on a chain. It ended up being on a chain. But it's like I pull up to this trailer in the middle of nowhere, and there's all these like liquor boxes everywhere, you know, and broken down cars.

Yeah, it's just cra- crazy stuff. I don't know if it's like that any- I don't think it's quite like that anymore,

Ally: I

Whitney: but...

Ally: I don't watch the local news a ton. [01:00:00] Sometimes I'll flip on the Today Show in the morning. but yeah, I don't watch as much of it, which I think to your point is, you know, things have obviously changed over the years, too,

in terms of the number of jobs probably that are even available,

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: like what you had dreamed of. Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah. It's, it's a lot different, like Knoxville used to be a mid-size market where you'd have to go through a couple jobs to land here, and now it's people right out of college come here. So it just, the, money in local news is less now, and so I think the quality has suffered.

Ally: So at what point did you get your MBA?

Whitney: I got a graduate degree, in PR actually

Ally: okay.

Whitney: UT.

It worked out really great, 'cause I worked at UT, so, um, I got to go for free. So I did that, and I graduated three months before Eleanor was born, so it worked out great.

Ally: Wow. And then that is, that's incredible.

Whitney: Mm-hmm.

Ally: I feel like a lot of what, you know, you had to do as a journalist and all [01:01:00] the one-man band, like how much did that prepare you to be a podcast host? My goodness.

Whitney: It's funny 'cause I was scared to do it on my own. I was like, "I don't know how to figure this out." So- Yeah ... 'cause, I mean, technology changes so much, so it was a whole- Yeah ... new world that I didn't know about. But we learn. Figure it out. It's a learning curve. I'm still learning, but, you know, I feel like I'm getting into a groove now.

It's taking me a lot less time to, prepare and edit and upload things than it did, so.

Ally: Yeah. I think that, and then will come along and I'll spend like all this time trying to fix something, and then I'm like, "Gosh darn it. I was just getting in a groove of where this was going quickly," and I was... Yeah, 'cause I don't know how you, you bank episodes, like schedule them out in advance, and I'm like, how does that work?

Whitney: know. I am almost done with the whole summer, which is-

Ally: need to channel that. That's

Whitney: it's kind of a blessing, and I am an anti-procrastinator. it stresses me out to have things hanging over my head that I have to do. And this way I'm like, okay, I- [01:02:00] then I can just really be present with my kids and the dogs and everything.

Ally: Mm-hmm.

Whitney: but it's a problem when we get new sponsors and then I have to go back and re-edit things.

Yeah. Or if I decide to shuffle around the order, then I have to re-edit them with the sponsors and so it's not the most efficient, but it makes me and my anxiety feel better- Yeah ... about the, about the summer. Yeah.

Ally: Yeah. That is really nice. I need to figure out like a balance of doing that, 'cause my kids will be in camp a, a lot, but not all the time, and yeah. That's pretty-- It's amazing. I

Whitney: Oh, well thank

Ally: I am gonna ask you the end of the podcast questions then.

Whitney: Okay.

Ally: then, and then I'm gonna ask another question in there that I was gonna ask. Okay.

Whitney: I'm sweating. I'm so nervous.

Ally: So good. They're so easy. So there's two questions I ask everybody, and the first is, what is your favorite running song and/or mantra?

Whitney: Okay. Well, the running song is somewhat embarrassing.

Ally: Perfect.

Whitney: Well, the song that makes me pumped up to [01:03:00] run fast is Ransom Remix by Lil Tecca and Juice WRLD, which is

Ally: I

Whitney: influence from our neighbor kid. We- our neighbor kids practically live at our house and are like my extra children. So, yeah. And then mantra, gosh.

You know, it really changes. and the one- That I took with me-- that I was gonna take with me for Carmel, and this kinda goes back into that mental baggage, was, like, you are the fast one because of all my injuries and everything. And now the fact that I'm 44, I just have in my head that I can't be fast again.

I can't run the fast times that I used to run and that I want to run. And so it's just a reminder to me that, like, she's still in there and, I'm just taking the slow and steady way to get back to it so that I can keep doing

Ally: Yeah. Love that. Okay, and then next finish line or [01:04:00] milestone.

Whitney: so I'm doing a speed cycle this summer, which will be super fun. I don't have any races on the calendar. I'm just gonna pop into whatever 5Ks work for our schedule or 10Ks. So Indy. Indy's the big one. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Ally: Excellent.

Whitney: And I better get a fast time, though.

Ally: You better. I'm gonna, I'm gonna start-- I'm just already praying to the weather gods, just already.

Whitney: I mean, I feel like that's, that's the only thing is people have talked about the wind, so I'm like, just have the wind be at my back.

Ally: Right. If we could just orchestrate that, that'd

Whitney: Yeah. That'd be great. Thank you. Thank you.

Ally: And then the other question I wanted to ask you, because you have so much knowledge and so much, so many resources that people should go check out, but maybe the, maybe the top one or two questions that you get asked about running as a mom.

Whitney: Ooh, that is a good one. Running as a mo- I mean, it really goes back to time management, [01:05:00] I think,

Ally: Hmm.

Whitney: is just figuring out how to fit it in and how to have it unfold in a way that keeps you feeling good. yeah, there's no, like, concrete when can I return to run or when can I run a ma- I mean, actually, I do get asked a lot, "Can I run a marathon while pregnant?"

I do get that asked a lot.

Ally: What is your response to that? I'm not a doctor. Like don't ask me.

Whitney: I mean, I, uh, yeah, I mean, absolutely. I say, like, one of your guests on your show, Jess Jones, she was my athlete, and she qualified for Boston while she was pregnant.

Ally: Amazing.

Whitney: yeah, she's incredible. But yeah, absolutely. But I always, if I'm working with a pregnant athlete, we are always working in tandem with the doctor.

Um, so if they're saying, "Oh, I have pelvic pressure," or, "This is bothering me," like I can theorize what's going on, but I always say, "Call your doctor."

Ally: Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: Okay, I'll ask one of the questions that you mentioned as an example earlier for people who heard it and were like, [01:06:00] "Well, what's the answer to that?" Which is, how do you get your kids to stay in a stroller when they wanna get out?

Whitney: so unfortunately it's not... I mean, there's like the hacks you can use with the special snacks or special toys or, let them run at the end or s- end at a fun place like a park or a playground or with Eleanor and Cal we'd go get a muffin and then we'd go to the playground, um, 'cause there's like this little coffee shop near my house.

But really it's check the expectations at the door. When you go out, you just ne- you're spending time together. You're... Have a time goal, not a mileage goal. Do it by effort. it's more about them than it is about you. And so don't go out there thinking, "Okay, I gotta hammer eight miles with them in the stroller."

That's just not realistic and is setting you up for failure. So,

Ally: Yeah, that's good advice.

Whitney: yeah. Or it's just like if it's too frustrating for you, then you gotta figure something else out. Different [01:07:00] time to, you know, yeah.

Ally: Yeah. Yeah, hiring a sitter or something like that. I've heard you talk about, Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah. That, 'cause El- Eleanor, she learned to walk at nine months, which is just crazy.

Ally: Yeah,

Whitney: I know. I know. And so as soon as she learned to walk, like that was it. She did not wanna sit in the stroller. So obviously we'd try to go when she, when she'd be sleeping. Like I'd, we'd go f- it- first thing in the morning before I'd have to go to work, and that would be like her second na- like first thing in the mor- well, let's see.

She would get up and then I'd get ready, and then we'd... I don't know what, how, it's, it's all a blur. But anyways, it was like she would nap or she'd have an early wake up and I'd be like, "Okay, we'll go," and then she'd fall asleep. And so that worked out well, obviously planning it with naps, but sometimes they, they don't sleep in the stroller, so.

Ally: try your best. You're like, "You're really tired right now. You're gonna fall asleep," and then they don't. Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah.

Ally: plans.

Whitney: Always.

Ally: Yeah. Well, if people don't follow you, they need to go follow you at

Whitney: Thank

Ally: Runners. you are sharing such [01:08:00] wonderful stories, such inspiring stories of other mothers, and obviously have tons of great resources on your blog that is still out there.

So, uh, anything else that you wanna share that I didn't ask you about

Whitney: No, I'm just so grateful for the time to ramble with you. T-

Ally: No, I love

Whitney: I mean, I, you asked me questions that nobody's ever asked me before, so it's been fun to go down memory lane. so I'm just really grateful for your interest and for your time and everything that you're doing to lift up the everyday runners in the community, so thank you for being you.

Ally: Oh, thanks. All right. Well, and thank you to everybody who listened, and happy running.

Whitney: Happy running. Thanks, Ally.

Ally: If there is one thing you do after this show, head to the show notes and sign up for Finish Lines and Milestones podcast weekly emails that I send every Friday. It's a mix of podcast episodes, my personal running journey, products that I love, and I really try to make them not suck.

And of course, you can always share, rate, review the show. That helps others find it. And also need to check out the [01:09:00] Mother Runners podcast if you enjoyed this conversation with Whitney. She has so many amazing conversations over there, including one of her most recent episodes is with Randi Zuckerberg, who just ran 250 miles at the Cocodona 250.

And yes, she is one of those Zuckerbergs. She is so inspiring. And if you don't already, you can follow me on Instagram. I'm Ally, A-L-L-Y, T Brett, B-R-E-T-T. That's allytbrett_runs. And I will see you again next week. Thanks for listening. Bye.