Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 164: Zach Burton - World's Fastest Caterpillar

Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 164: Zach Burton - World's Fastest Caterpillar

Here's how people can enjoy this episode:

Guest: Zach Burton @_zachburton

Show Notes:

Zach Burton⁠ and I have been crossing paths in the Indy running community for a while now, most recently at the ⁠Full Mo 50K⁠, where he ran for the second year in a row.

During this episode, sponsored by ⁠Goodr⁠ and ⁠Noogs⁠, we talk about:

  • Running the Full Mo two years in a row — the second time on basically no training 🤣
  • How ultras flip the script on marathon pressure ("who cares what the time is, can you just run the mileage?")
  • Growing up in Pike Township, playing baseball, and hating golf until he didn't
  • Walking on to the Anderson University cross country team while commuting an hour each way and working nights in radio
  • His rise at WZPL from weekend fill-in to music director and afternoon drive — as a 20-year-old
  • The Two Faces for Radio pandemic podcast and interviewing artists like Sabrina Carpenter, Tate McRae, and Avril Lavigne
  • How boredom + a random Instagram video led to Googling whether there was a world record for running a half marathon in a caterpillar costume (there was)
  • The Guinness World Record process: three-month pre-approval, costume design sign-off, a GoPro-wielding cameraman running all 13.1, and a 3.5-month wait for the certificate 📜
  • Running the Indy Mini as a five-person caterpillar in 1:30 and getting smoked by the elites anyway
  • Meeting his wife in middle school ("the old-fashioned way — online") and proposing to her center stage at Gainbridge Fieldhouse during a Jingle Jam concert with Lizzo headlining 💍
  • Blue Bell Cookie Two-Step ice cream, which he describes as "diabetes in a cup and the greatest thing ever"

Previous Guests Mentioned

Sponsor Details

Other Links

This is a ⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠ podcast.

Episode Transcript

Zach: I was on social media, and I saw some other people doing it, and I was like, " This is funny." You know,

then I started thinking about it, and I was like, wait, I wonder if there's a world record tied to this.

Ally: Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast for everyday runners. I'm your host, Ally Brettnacher, and if you run, you're a runner, and every runner has a story. Join me each week as I share these stories, and we celebrate finish lines and milestones together.

This week's episode is brought to you by Goodr. If you're a runner and you don't know this brand, you've been living under a rock. I probably own 20 pairs of Goodr sunglasses, and they are my go-to. I wear them in the car. I wear them on a run. I wear them for my everyday sunglasses.

They have a style, color that fits absolutely everyone. They don't move, so there's no slipping and bouncing mid-run, so you don't have to worry about adjusting them. They are lightweight, comfortable. They just work. And they're also polarized, so they have UV [00:01:00] 400 protection, so you're actually covered with the sun protection part of it, not just style.

And Goodr started because running glasses were expensive and over-engineered and not so cute. So they set out to make something affordable, stylish, and all performance, and that is still exactly what they are. If you have never bought a pair of sunglasses from their website, you can go to goodr.com, G-O-O-D-R.com/ALLYB, A-L-L-Y-B, for $10 off your first order.

That's goodr.com/ALLYB, and thank you so much to Goodr for supporting this podcast All right, and now for this week's episode.

Zach Burton and I have been crossing paths in the indie running community for a while now, most recently at the Full Mo 50K, where he ran for the second year in a row on not a ton of training and without a lot of fuel, which is nuts. We talk about that. Zach is also a former music director for radio, WZPL.

He is a workaholic, [00:02:00] walk-on collegiate runner, and a Guinness World Record holder, which we dig into a ton. he and his friends made history twice by running a half-marathon in a four and five-person caterpillar costume, and they broke the world record twice.

So I loved asking him all of the questions about this experience. You have to go see the pictures and videos, too, for yourself. here's my conversation with Zach

we have world record holder Zach Burton here today.

Zach: Yes. Let's not dig into what the actual record is, but we can say world record holder. I'm good with that.

Ally: I think when we dig into it, people are gonna be very impressed, just so you know.

Zach: I'd be shocked. No, I mean, we'll, we'll get to it. We'll get to it, but no, it's, it's definitely funny

Ally: Okay, it is definitely funny. The pictures, I didn't want you to stop sharing pictures of it. Anyway, we will get into it. I did wanna talk about the full mo right away because that's what just happened as we record this.

Zach: Yes.

Ally: even see you outside of at the expo for, like, a moment

Zach: Yeah, no, it was, [00:03:00] um... You know, it's funny a- and I feel like it came back to haunt me. The previous year I've been telling people, "You know what? I'm never gonna run a marathon again. I've done it once, never again. It's too hard." But I did the Full Mo last year, and I was like, "You know, this is actually not terribly bad."

Because it-- you can, you can, you know, put the race into bite-sized chunks. you know, obviously when you're up in Sheridan, you don't really know the area. But when you start making it down to Westfield, you know, you're only a few miles to 146, and only a few miles to Midtown, and so on and so forth. So I went into it this year, uh, with the mentality, dragged along a friend of mine, that it was gonna be relatively easy or similar to last year.

And I wanna say by mile 20, I was just beat. And I was shocked I made it in, so, um, it, it was, it was brutal to say the least

Ally: Was the, how was the weather last year compared to this year?

Zach: That's a good question. I, I honestly don't remember. I, I don't think it was the weather. I can use that as an excuse, but the issue this year is I just didn't train.

Ally: Well, yeah.

Zach: 'cause [00:04:00] I, I... Yeah, so,

Ally: That'll do it

Zach: that is what it is. So I don't think I broke 25 miles a week in my whole training, so

Ally: Gosh, to be young. It's so

Zach: Yes

Ally: mean, it's crazy to think that people don't necessarily train for that and can just bang it out. I mean, even if it's not the, necessarily the time or performance you wanted, it's still amazing that you did it.

Zach: Right. No, I mean, and I feel like that's so interesting, and I said earlier that, you know, I'd never run a marathon again, and that's... Y- you nailed it on the head. It's, in a marathon, I feel like everyone's so focused on what time they get, whereas an ultra it's, can you just do it? Like, I, who cares what the time is, can you just run the mileage?

So I, I think that's what makes it a lot easier to just not really worry about it or set any expectations on yourself. Just go out and do it and see what happens.

Ally: Yeah. I loved it for that reason,

Zach: Yeah

Ally: I'm such a road racer and, like, care- I've cared about times in certain points of my life at certain races, and it's exhausting. I feel like my [00:05:00] body recovered way better from this race than any marathon I've run

Zach: Yeah, no, I was out on the golf course Sunday afternoon, so I was out walking, walking golf again. So it's, uh, it's the best recovery you can have

Ally: Yeah, that's impressive. So what marathon did you do as your first marathon outside of the Full Mo?

Zach: I, I did Monumental, gosh, two years ago

Ally: Okay

Zach: and it was terrible. It, it was the most pain I've ever been in in my life. and I never intend to try to do it again, so

Ally: That's, you know, you're on record saying that, so

Zach: Yes, I am. Yes

Ally: I know, I, th- in early episodes of this podcast I said I was never interested in running an ultramarathon, and now, like, fast-forward, it's like,

Zach: Yeah.

Ally: here we are.

Zach: Yeah, it's funny how that happens. Yeah

Ally: Yeah. But you were a runner in college, which I actually didn't know about you until I started digging in, and you were a walk-on, so

Zach: Yeah, I, I would,

Ally: athlete.

Don't give me the, you know, you know.

Zach: yeah, I, I would take that with an asterisk. it, it's funny. So I, I was, I [00:06:00] never ran competitively in high school. I didn't really even get into running until senior year maybe.

Ally: Wow

Zach: then got injured a lot in college. You know, I would try to pick up my speed and shin splints, you know, whatever.

And I was at that point where, okay, I've been doing this for a couple years now. I should probably learn the right way how to run, and not just try to go out and, you know, do, do whatever you thought was right, which never seems to be right. And, um, you know, went and joined the team, and it was funny 'cause I had this caveat with Coach Stevens.

I was like, "Dude, look, I have a job, and I'm in school. Uh, this is, this is gonna be tough, but I need the education from you." And it, it was a very interesting thing 'cause I very rarely went to practice. I was kinda sent the agenda of what I was supposed to do 'cause my schedule in college, I lived on the we- uh, west side of Indy, northwest side.

so I would drive every morning up to Anderson [00:07:00] University, which is about an hour drive from where I was at. I would go to school from, like, 9:00 to, you know, whenever, and then I would try to do some form of training and then come back, and I started work at, like, 5:00. So I was working nights, and we can get into that here in a second.

But

Ally: Zach

Zach: it, it was, it was ridiculous. So I didn't really have time to put in team training, which, you know, I, I regret 'cause I feel like that's the whole part of being a college athlete, that you, you know, get that team rah-rah, which we have gotten some way. but yeah, I mean, I, I competed in a few meets.

Like I said, I was injured pretty much the whole time, so I, I, I have it on my resume I guess, but it n- never really happened, I feel like

Ally: Yeah, it's, it's, that's so crazy what you just described makes me tired just thinking about it,

Zach: Yeah

Ally: all of that in. But you said that you are a self-proclaimed workaholic too, so do you just find that that's your natural inclination is just to fill all of your time?

Zach: Yeah, I, um, I hate being bored. I, I always like having something to [00:08:00] do. And, you know, I, I've never really understood the ability to just unplug. so like my, my mind is always on, and if I have a question about something like in work, personal, whatever it is, then it's like, "Okay, I gotta go find the answer."

And, that, that just never shuts off. So

Ally: Yeah

Zach: just can't

Ally: Are you from... So wait, where did you say you were from that was an hour from Anderson? I missed

Zach: Yeah, so, uh, grew up in Pike Township.

Ally: Pike Township, okay.

So do you think you get some of the, the work ethic from your parents? did they work a lot when you were growing up?

Zach: You know, not necessarily you know, my dad was in the golf business and, you know, he worked what I would say a traditional 9:00 to 5:00. my mom was an independent contractor in healthcare, which, you know, she worked from home, so there was like this great work-life balance of, hey... know, I, I feel like as a kid I never saw my mom work, 'cause it was like she worked when I napped or she worked when I was outside playing with my brother.

so no, I, I don't, I don't know where it came from. but yeah, I'm, I'm just wired kind of [00:09:00] a weird way. I don't know

Ally: Yeah. As a kid, did you play other sports? I mean, obviously you didn't run, but what other sports did you play?

Zach: Yeah, I, um, I warmed the bench a lot in baseball. I was a, I was a pitcher only, so that means, you know, you play one out of five games or something. Um, so played that since, you know, my parents put me into it first thing, growing up, like T-ball, and then I quit it pretty much freshman year of high school.

I was like,

Ally: Okay.

Zach: " This isn't for me. I'm burnt out." It was something, you know, "Hey, Dad's telling me to do this, so I have to do this." but no, it, it was never a serious thing.

Ally: Yeah. What about golf since your dad was in that industry?

Zach: I hated golf, until recently. I mean, you know, you grow up on a golf course and you have unlimited ability to play whenever you want, and you just never take advantage of it. ' Cause as a kid you're like, you know, g- golf has gotta be the most frustrating sport in the entire world.

Ally: Yeah.

Zach: go on record in saying that.

so as a kid you just can't roll with [00:10:00] the punches, but I think the older you get, the more you understand, like, the principles in it, and it, it becomes more enjoyable. Plus also as an adult you can appreciate, hey, I'm out just, like, with my family or, you know, headphones in, walking this course. I don't need to listen to the outside world.

I got two hours to myself. that, that's enjoyable as well

Ally: Yeah. I, uh, I try to play golf. Well, my parents moved to a golf course when I was in college,

Zach: Yep

Ally: had access to that when I was younger, and I just didn't, I wasn't interested at all. And now I regret it 'cause I'm like, "Dang, I could have maybe been better, a lot better than I am now."

But it's... I can play. I can get out

Zach: Sir

Ally: I've stopped being so frustrated, 'cause you're right, it is... If you get mad at every shot that you mess up, then you're not gonna have a

Zach: You will be mad for the full time. I mean, right, you-- I, I always say I'm a, I'm a bad golfer that hits good shots. Um, so, you know, keep the expectations as low as you possibly can

Ally: Yeah. Okay, so then after... Wait, did you study radio in college? Was that what you [00:11:00] intended to do after you graduated?

Zach: You know, I, um, this goes back to high school. So I was a bad high school student, and my senior year I got the opportunity to go to a place called J. Everett Light, which is connected to, uh, North Central High School. and they had a radio program. You know, music, radio, whatever, and I'm like, "I'm not gonna...

This is for old people," but my teacher's telling me I need to do it, so I'm gonna do it. And, ended up falling in love with it, and, went to college and was like, "Okay, that, that was fun in high school. High school had a station. Now I'm at Anderson University. There is no station." so that was, like, a cool stint of my life, and then pretty quickly in college I realized that I was broke and I had no money, and I had to make money somehow.

So I did whatever I knew what to do. I just applied to every radio job I possibly could find, and ultimately got the bottom-of-the-barrel position at a company called Entercom, which owns multiple stations in our market. And, the, the rest is history. But no, I mean, I, I had no intent in [00:12:00] college that radio was gonna be the future.

I thought I was gonna go into marketing 'cause that's what I studied. so obviously none of that's true. Uh but yeah, it, my whole world has been... I don't know. I feel like I'm a 27-year-old that feels like a 40-year-old 'cause I've had, like, so many weird experiences. But

Ally: Yeah. I, it's funny, I feel the opposite. I'm almost 40 and I feel like I'm in my 20s just trying to figure it out. but you have had a lot of different experiences throughout your life already, which is, I actually didn't know that you were that young. I mean, not 'cause I thought you looked old or anything, but because of all you've done so far.

Zach: I got, I have gray hairs. My wife keeps pointing them out, so like, you know

Ally: start coming and, you know. I just, I do too, I embrace them. So it's just, it's bound to happen. okay. what was it like working in radio for as long as you did? I have one of my best friends who was in my wedding is on the radio in Grand Rapids, so I've heard from her some about the industry, but she's morning show.

Zach: Yep

Ally: Have you done kind of all different types of jobs while you were there?

Zach: Yeah. So my first job [00:13:00] in radio was promotions. You know, it's the bottom of the barrel. You just get in and it's, "Hey, I'm gonna go pitch a tent for the radio station at this concert as a promotion thing." Right? Hand out beer koozies or whatever. And then, then one day I got the courage to walk into the programming director's office and, you know, for those who don't know, the programming director is the guy that runs the station, right?

He's the guy. And I said, "Hey, I was in high school radio. I wanna be on real radio." And he said, "No." And he said, you know, "Keep trying," you know, "You can do this, this, this and this, but, you know, we'll revisit that when we get there." then fast-forward a few months, and I think he felt bad, and he put me on the weekend show when no one listens, right?

Se- seven to midnight on a Saturday night. N- no one's listening to the radio. And you know, I, I took that to heart, and then I w- I might screw up the, the timeline here, but it all happened relatively quick. I would say six months from that time I was promoted to full-time nights, so every single [00:14:00] day. And then maybe six months from then I was promoted to the music director and afternoon drive, which was, like, aside from the morning, like, the time to have in radio.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: all of this as, like, a 20-year-old kid, which made no sense.

Ally: crazy

Zach: but yeah, it was, it was odd. So yeah, it was, um... Music director, you're programming the entire station, so, like, every song you hear, I was the guy, professionally making playlists, if you will,

Ally: Yeah

Zach: you know, fielding calls from record labels saying, "Hey, this new song's the hottest song in the world," and you have to say, "No, it's not, 'cause we have, you know, this."

and then during COVID, a buddy of mine, Jackson, who was doing the evening show at the time, we, realized, hey, how can we capitalize on radio during COVID because no one's in their And you know, it was one of those things like, well, we're getting calls from record labels pushing songs all the time.

Why don't we try to get interviews with these artists? So we set up a podcast. We called it Two Faces for Radio. I think we made it, [00:15:00] gosh, maybe 70 or so episodes and got, got to talk to some very fascinating people,

Ally: Ja

Zach: it, it was, it was a really exciting time. I wouldn't trade that experience for the world, but I, I have stories beyond belief and, uh, yeah.

It was, it was a ton of fun.

Ally: Give us maybe one or two of your top stories.

Zach: I, I don't know if they're necessarily stories. It more of like just people that their perceptions were different than I think we imagined, and I'm not gonna spill that for obvious reasons. but no, I mean, we had some cool times. Like, we, we got to go to Lollapalooza with, you know, backstage passes and interview, um, some of the artists that were performing there.

at WZPL, which was the station I was at, we threw our own concerts, so we got to kind of do a takeover there as well. but yeah, I mean, I would say seeing the behind-the-scenes of events and s- personally putting together or having a hand in these concerts is probably the coolest [00:16:00] experience I had in radio, if, you know, if I could pick it out.

But the thing that drove me nuts about it is that's 1% of the time, where the rest of the time you're sitting behind a desk plugging in songs,

Ally: Yeah

Zach: uh, most of which you don't like in the first place.

Ally: they, I'm sure.

Zach: so yeah

Ally: Yeah, I, do you have, like, a favorite interview? I saw Sabrina Carpenter on your Instagram feed. Like,

Zach: Yeah

Ally: I mean, some big-ass names. Like, do you have some people that surprised you when you interviewed them, or stands out?

Zach: Yeah. Oh gosh, I have to go back and remember everyone we had. But no, we, we talked to Sabrina Carpenter actually a handful of times, and this is before, you know, she went on tour with Taylor Swift and everything and really blew up. but she's, she's extremely nice. Um, another person that's really, gotten popular since was, uh, Tate McRae.

We interviewed her, again, three or four times. but I would say, like, one of the funniest interviews that I had that I did not expect was probably Avril Lavigne, of all people.

Ally: gosh, I

Zach: I thought she was gonna be, you know, "Hey, I've [00:17:00] been famous forever,

Ally: Yeah.

Zach: like it." But, you know, Avril's, like, the nicest person ever.

She's hilarious. so that was a ton of fun

Ally: oh, I would love to meet her. She was on Call Her Daddy podcast, and I loved that interview, 'cause she was... I mean, this is dating myself compared to you. I graduated high school in 2004, like prime Avril Lavigne time. So that's pretty

Zach: That's so funny. No, she, she was awesome. But no, I know I'm missing some people, but I just, I can't remember that well. It, it was so long ago.

Ally: Yeah,

Zach: Yeah

Ally: ago and a blur because it's virtual. I feel like virtual is so weird compared to

Zach: Yeah

Ally: 'cause obviously it's almost like, know, I feel like I'd be sitting there talking to somebody like that and be like, "Is this real life?"

Zach: Yes, exactly. 'Cause, you know, a lot of these, a lot of these people, you know, Jason Derulo, if you interview Jason Derulo during COVID, you're like, "I see this guy on my phone all the time,

Ally: All the

Zach: and he's sitting right there, and he's responding to what I'm saying?

This makes no sense."

Ally: it's like, is this AI? It's so

Zach: yeah, exactly, which, you know, we- if we redid [00:18:00] this today, everyone would think it would be AI. And I mean, even back then, it's like, how did you slice the video perfectly that he answered your... Like, no, this was actually a real conversation.

Ally: So cool

Zach: but yeah, it's, it was fun

Ally: Yeah, so you mentioned working nights while in college, so I'm assuming that's what this, this time of your life was. When did you sleep?

Zach: Uh, so, hmm, I'll, I'll air out the radio industry while we're at it. the, the radio industry is, like, very fake, I think. the, the reason I say that is there's no such thing, I mean, other than mornings, like mornings is like the real caveat to all of radio. But other than mornings, everything is pre-programmed typically a week out.

callers are never live, and everything is pre-recorded from a break standpoint. So yeah, I would be on until midnight, but I would show up at like, 5:00 or 6:00, record the whole show, and be out by like 7:00 by the time the show started.

Ally: Yeah.

Zach: it wasn't like midnight. No, I, I was, I was home in bed by 8:00 o'clock, [00:19:00] so it wasn't, it wasn't a huge deal

Ally: Yeah. I know, I never knew that until I knew I had a friend that was in radio, and I was like, "What do you mean it's not live? Isn't that

Zach: Yeah.

Ally: She's like, "No." Like,

Zach: No. If you call me saying, "Hey, I wanna hear this song. Can you play it?" I'm gonna say no, or I'll say, "Yeah, I'll see what I can do," right? Try to be nice. And I'll record the phone call so then when that song comes up, I'll play it right before, like, "Look, this is all real."

Ally: Yeah, this request was three weeks ago, but

Zach: yeah, exactly. You just, you just bank those things and wait for the right time

Ally: So do you remember when, back to the running topic, when did you run your first race outside of collegiate athletics?

Zach: Uh, running races happened before college. I would say it would've been my senior year of high school I ran the Indy Mini.

Ally: Okay

Zach: and I only ran the Indy Mini 'cause that's what my mom always ran. You know, my mom ran one race every single year. It was the Indy Mini and nothing else.

Ally: like my mom, yeah.

Zach: Yeah, and, and for, for the longest time, I would say up until two years ago, that was me too.

as you'll find out through those [00:20:00] interviews, I don't like running. Like, it's not like my favorite thing in the world, but it was like the Indy Mini for me always served as a benchmark of, " Hey, do I still have fitness from what I had last year? Or am I improving or am I going backwards?"

It, it's more of just like for me it was it's the same course. It's not like I'm doing the Indy Mini, then doing Geist and wondering why I lost five minutes. It's, same course. if you lose five minutes, you lost five minutes of fitness from the previous year. Figure it out. See what you can do better

Ally: So how many Indie Minis have you done?

Zach: You know, it was funny, my wife and I were trying to calculate this. I maybe 10,

Ally: Okay

Zach: maybe eight. I, I don't know, don't really know

Ally: Well, when I did my 10th, they put like a little tiny piece of paper in my packet.

Zach: Okay. So not, not there yet. Not there yet

Ally: that said, "Congratulations on..." And it wasn't, didn't even have color on it. It was just like somebody printed it on a plain piece of paper and was like, " Congrats

Zach: That's cool. That's cool that they noticed though. I was, I'm shocked

Ally: I have it around somewhere. but yeah, so you gotta be close to that, or maybe you did [00:21:00] and they... Yeah, I had to

Zach: Maybe it got thrown out with the little, uh, safety pins or something. I don't know.

Ally: there. Does your wife run at all?

Zach: She doesn't. she has to take care of our kid while I'm running. So

Ally: There you go.

Zach: you know, a good balanced family. Yep, that's right

Ally: Okay, so a lot of Indy Minis. When did you start venturing into other races? What other races have you done?

Zach: Yeah, the, the first real venture was Monumental when I decided, "Hey, I'm gonna try the marathon." And, obviously that's not including running around like a golf course or something for a cross-country race. That's, that's separate. But um, yeah, the, the Monumental was my second real race. And, after that, you know, we, we got into, " Hey, are we gonna do this Caterpillar thing?"

Right? And then that stemmed into what it stemmed into, and we added a few more races, and obviously I did the full MO the last two years. But still, I'm not, the guy that's gonna sign up for four different races a year. Uh, I just, I don't care that much.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: so I'm, I'm kind of a [00:22:00] one-and-done guy. I might do the full MO every year.

I might do the mini every year, and that's it.

Ally: So interesting.

Zach: it on cruise control

Ally: Right. Well, how does, how did the caterpillar thing come about? Whose idea was it?

Zach: Yeah, I, I wish I could tell you like a great inspirational story, but I can't. I mean, it was literally me bored one day, and I was on social media, and I saw some other people doing it, and I was like, " This is funny." You know, it's, you know, scroll past it. You know, it's, it's cool.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: then I started thinking about it, and I was like, wait, I wonder if there's a world record tied to this.

I don't know, but it's, that's such a random thought, and you look it up, and next thing you know, there is, and it's like, wait, I can run that fast, and I have a couple other friends that can run that fast. And next thing you know, I'm in the group chat with,

buddy Cade and Ian saying, "Guys, you know, hear me out, but here's an idea."

and we, we run together pretty much every weekend, around the area. But, they were like, " Are you serious or are you, are you joking right now? 'Cause this doesn't seem serious." And I'm like, "Guys, I'm-- we're gonna do this."

Ally: my gosh

Zach: and so obviously that's [00:23:00] only three people, so we had to reach out to Zach Davenport as well, who was still, um...

Actually, no, I think he'd just graduated Anderson at that time. And said, "Hey, you're doing this too." And he's like, "Okay." And next thing you know, we had four, and then it was a real thing, and we had to get everything in check and see if we could make it happen.

Ally: Did you send them the video to tell them, like, to explain what you were trying to do? Or did you at that point not have the video and you're just kinda articulating it to them via text and they're like, "What?"

Zach: Yeah, it was, it was the, um, the latter. you know, once the video came up on my feed, you know how it is finding that first post on Instagram that disappears forever. Yeah.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: so, you know, I, I email the city officials, you know, the ones who put on the, the Geist Half Marathon, 'cause I, I had to do some research and it's, you know, Guinness requires like a three-month pre-approval process.

So realistically if you say a... Yeah, so if, if you say, "Hey, I wanna break a record," you have to apply to beat the record, and then you find [00:24:00] out pretty much in three months if you can do it or not.

Ally: Okay

Zach: from the day we saw the video and decided, "Okay, this is g- We're gonna do this. We're gonna apply," Geist was really the only race that monumental that were coming up that were good half marathons.

And at the time I was like, "Monumental, way too big of a race. They're never gonna let us in with this, you know, giant monstrosity." So I was like, "Oh, let me try reaching out to the city officials. I'm probably not gonna get in touch with anyone 'cause this is such a stupid request." And, sure enough, we did, and we had found out that it was kind of like the laughing stock of the office and they forgot to follow up with us originally.

Ally: great. So you had to

Zach: s-

Ally: with them?

Zach: yeah, I, and they were like, "Sorry, this is...

Ally: Sorry,

Zach: We've, we've been talking about it, but we haven't been talking with you about it."

Ally: That's so good

Zach: and they shockingly, they were like, "Yeah, let's do it." And then it was like, "Uh-oh, this is actually real now and we have other people involved." And then, we [00:25:00] reached out to Athletic Annex, who has been great to us, and Larry, who I'm sure you've had on

Ally: He was episode nine. God love

Zach: the podcast.

Wow. Yeah. L- Larry, Larry jumped right on top of it. He was, "Okay. Yes. Th- this is, this screams Athletic Annex. We are gonna do... Like, you let us know what you need." And he was absolutely great to us. And then, you know, there goes all the pressure, and now we are stuck trying to beat a world record in the category-

Ally: Yes, but now we have to talk about w- the caterpillar costume itself because you didn't just, like, Google on Am- or, like, look on Amazon and be like, "Where can I get a four-person

Zach: Yes.

Ally: You made it, correct?

Zach: Y- well, yeah, so this is, There had been other people, obviously there was a previous record before us, so th- there had been other people that attempted it. So it required a little bit of research to, okay, it's fun, yeah, I can run this distance, whatever. How do you actually do this?

And we found that you can buy these kids' tunnels on Amazon, you know, these caterpillar [00:26:00] tunnels.

Ally: Yeah.

Zach: this canvas material, they flex, it's awesome. so we bought those, and then, I shouldn't say we bought those. Athletic Annex was graceful enough to buy those for us. those came in and they got backpack straps as well, so we're trying to figure out, hey, we're all guys.

Who knows arts and crafts and sewing, because we have to figure out a way to attach these backpack straps onto this caterpillar costume, 'cause we have no idea. And by the grace of God, the caterpillar costume, like the, um, the kids' tunnels come with loops on

Ally: Right, they do

Zach: So you could connect the backpack to the loop.

So there was zero extra work that was required. So if you just buy those kids' tunnels and then backpack straps, you can clip in the backpack straps through the loops and then, you know, just keep the thing going and next thing you know, you have a running cat or costume.

Ally: Yeah, I can totally picture that because that's how you collapse the tunnels to, like, store them

Zach: Yes.

Ally: Yeah, I totally know what you're talking [00:27:00] about.

Zach: Yep.

Ally: Well, how nice is that?

Zach: It, it was extremely easy. Then, then for the actual race, like we did one training run and I think it was Ian's,

Ally: Where? Where

Zach: failed.

Ally: Okay,

Zach: Oh, we did it at the Hawthorns so no one would see us.

Ally: 'cause I just up the Monon like...

Zach: yes, exactly. That would, that would've been atrocious.

Ally: Oh

Zach: but no, we, we did the one training run and Ian's little strap was failing, so we were like, okay, without getting ridiculous, how can we put like infrastructure inside this thing to make it sustain 13 miles? 'Cause guys, we've made it three miles and it's breaking.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: so luckily we never had it. For the, the, uh, first race and the second race, the costume never failed since the one training run, and we've done no other training runs other than that one. Uh, but we had ropes on the inside, you can see it in some of the photos, where like one rope would connect the back of my backpack strap to the front of the other guy's,

Ally: Mm-hmm.

Zach: if the costume completely broke, it would [00:28:00] fall down and the rope would still hold it up.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: but yeah, I mean, it, it was not a very complicated construction. It was it's the easiest thing to make

Ally: And then I can't remember, are the eyes googly eyes or are they like just eyes, stationary eyes?

Zach: We should have done googly eyes. That would've been... Yeah, we should have.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: they're just stationary eyes, the ones that came with the, uh, the tunnels

Ally: Now I'm imagining you guys running and the eye is like bouncing around. It'd

Zach: I know. That, that would've been very good

Ally: upgrade, you know, when you move to six or whatever.

Zach: Yes. No, we're not... That's not happening.

Ally: yeah, okay.

Zach: ever.

Ally: Aw, that's... Dang it. okay, so rules, 'cause Guinness Book of World Records, like you said, three-month process.

I'm assuming then after that process there was a window of time you had to run the race. Is that true? Like, they approve you're going for the record

Zach: I, I don't think so. I could be wrong, but, um, no, it, it was more or less just, "Hey, get approval." And then there's like another approval step. You have to get like pre-approval of the costume design.[00:29:00]

Ally: Okay, of the design

Zach: a, that's a check the box. And then from there you run the race, and then you have to... We can dive into this.

There's so many evidence pieces you need to collect and, and then send it up to Guinness. And then when you send it up to Guinness, I think the first attempt it took three and a half months to finally get the, " You did it. You broke a record."

Ally: Wow

Zach: all in all, I mean, from applying to running the race and getting the, you know, certificate in the mail, like the closest you could do it is like seven months, which is crazy

Ally: Okay. That is kinda crazy. I mean, I get it. They wanna make sure people aren't, making stuff up. But what, were the stipulations? 'Cause I remember when you and I first met, t- you telling me, like, "Okay, the costume can't fall apart. You have to all stay connected. So,

Zach: Yep

Ally: has to go to the bathroom, like, you're all going to the bathroom."

I don't

Zach: Yes

Ally: tell people what some of the stipulations were for success

Zach: Yeah. So, I think the hardest one was you have to have someone film it, the [00:30:00] whole thing. So for both races, you know, there was the five-person costume and the four-person costume, but there was always one extra person that ran alongside us with a GoPro the entire time. And, you know, God bless his soul, Caleb ran with us the first time, who was gonna run with us in the six, but, ultimately got injured.

But he had not trained at all prior, and his heart rate was redlined at like 200 the entire 13 miles around Geist, which was

Ally: That's

Zach: unreal.

Ally: Yeah.

Zach: my heart rate's ever gone up that high, but

Ally: I'm glad nothing happened. My goodness, based on some crazy stories I've heard recently.

Zach: Yeah.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: but no, you have to have someone film the entire thing, which is very difficult, especially when cameras run out of battery.

Ally: Yeah. Oh, no

Zach: yeah, you need to have witness statements, so a couple people that have ran by you or that were there, they have to say, "Hey, yes, I saw it. This actually happened." as far as like the actual, costume, it just needs to stay connected the entire time.

everybody needs [00:31:00] to be in it and move it. If someone needs to stop and use the restroom, you cannot move forward. It's like they, they can get out, like technically speaking, they can get out of the costume as long as the costume doesn't

Ally: Doesn't

Zach: move. but we had always joked about that and we said that we were all gonna pour into the port-a-potty with him,

Ally: totally.

Zach: just put some extra pressure on the guys.

Ally: the door, like, wh- uh, on the co-

Zach: Yeah, nobody look in here.

Ally: Yeah.

Zach: Yeah.

So tha- tha- that was really it. I mean, there-- it, it was a pretty straightforward rule book, at least it... Um, it was like two pages and a lot of it was just fluff.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: but yeah, we'll see. We still haven't submitted for the second one yet. We're still, um

Ally: the evidence?

Zach: Yeah. Um, we had a little mishap with the video, which isn't a big deal.

It's not gonna be the end of the world, but we just have to splice two different videos together.

Ally: Okay

Zach: I think we're having... I, I'm not the guy in charge of video, so I don't know what's going on. Um, Zach Davenport's a professional photographer, so we just threw [00:32:00] everything his way.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: but yeah, I mean, maybe we'll submit here in the next couple weeks, but we're not really in a hurry like we were the first time

Ally: Yeah, the first time you're like, "We wanna..." Yeah, say, "We

Zach: Yeah. We, we, we all have plaques now, right? So it's, it's not that big of a deal

Ally: Yeah, So and that's all done online, I'm assuming? Like, do you ever speak to a human through this process, or is it all virtual, like online?

Zach: I wish you did.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: that'd make life a whole lot easier. No, it's, it's all online you have like your own message portal where you can message your record analyst or whatever. And it takes two weeks for them to reply to every single message. So I don't know if they just have one person or two people.

I don't know what's going on, but, um, it is the most painful thing in the world. and you know, there were some, misunderstandings, I think, in this time, the second time around that I'm not going to talk about today, but, another cool thing about this second attempt is we had a, we're having a documentary come out from a guy that filmed like the whole buildup and the race and everything.

Ally: good

Zach: So he, he got some [00:33:00] added drama in the pre-race stuff, but

Ally: Excellent. I remember walking by you guys and taking a

Zach: Yeah

Ally: t- I have a video of you guys from the start 'cause you were close to the Hall of Champions where Ainsley's Angels lines

Zach: Yep, exactly. They, they made us go over there 'cause they were like, "We do not want you around the elite athletes. Not, not even close."

Ally: Don't... You stay away from the elites.

Zach: Exactly

Ally: and then you started the whole race, which I didn't realize. I pictured you guys running by us, which I really was looking forward to, and then I realized that that was not going to happen, which

Zach: It, it was so,

Ally: though

Zach: it was so strange, 'cause we, none of us knew what was going on. Like, we, we saw the race director for the 500 Festival the day before, and, she, she had said like, "Hey, we're gonna start you guys a couple minutes before everybody else." And we were like, " Okay? Like, what time? Like, what time do I need to set my alarm for and be there?"

cause again, you're coordinating not only, like, six people, six men, but, a cameraman, a couple other camera people that are doing the documentary, [00:34:00] then all of our families. so like this is, this is kind of crazy. and then we showed up, and I think that had all changed. And I, I still don't even know what time we went off, because the time we actually went off, none of us were ready.

you can go back and see it in the video that we were like, "Oh, wait," 'cause we had just gotten done with an interview with, the TV station there, and we were just so discombobulated, and off we went,

Ally: Yeah.

Zach: so

Ally: gosh. 'Cause I'm assuming that's probably live television

Zach: Yep

Ally: the start. Yeah, that's crazy nerve-wracking. probably not for you. You're like, "Eh."

Zach: I mean, it, it is. It's, again, I haven't done radio in probably five years now, so anything like that, it seems, it, it seems new to me

Ally: Yeah. Well, that's so crazy that you had essentially the whole course. You didn't, I'm assuming you didn't get passed at all because you guys were so fast

Zach: Oh, no. We, we got smoked by mile

Ally: by the

Zach: I think. The, the elites all passed us. I mean, we ran a 1:30.

Ally: Okay,

Zach: so yeah, we- I think we started five minutes ahead [00:35:00] of everybody else.

Ally: you had to run?

Zach: Uh, one forty-eight.

Ally: 1:48.

Zach: Yep

Ally: so originally, do you remember, like, before the Geist one, what the world record was at that time that you were like, "Oh, I can smash that"?

 

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do you remember, like, before the Geist one, what the world record was at that time that you were like, "Oh, I can smash that"?

Zach: Yeah, it was 1:41.

Ally: Okay. So you're

Zach: So that, that was, yeah, I had run a couple half m- again, I don't race much. Uh, that's not, that's just not what I do. So I, I had run a couple half marathons in the 1:20, 1:25 range, and I know I'm the slowest guy in the group, so I was like, "Okay, guys, we can, we can manage this. If I can do it, you can do it."

Ally: You gotta go, you gotta go to a small race and, like, break the tape as a caterpillar. It'd be so great.

Zach: Oh man, no, I, yeah, that'd be so

Ally: I

Zach: funny

Ally: wanna, I never wanna see the caterpillar again." Yeah.

Zach: Yeah

Ally: um, you're in the, you were in the front, is that right?

Zach: Yes

Ally: the front, and then who's the back? Who's the caboose?

Zach: Uh, originally it was Ian in the first. [00:37:00] The, the way we did it was we went in order from slowest to fastest.

Ally: That's

Zach: it was me, my buddy Cade, Zach, and then, um, Ian. 'Cause I- Ian's an animal. Ian's one of those guys that he'll never race. Like, the two races we did the last two years are gonna be the only two races Ian ever does.

You'll never see him on RunSignup, but he's an animal. and then for the last one, David Stansbury was in the, in the back. We just added him on

Ally: Okay. that does make sense because obviously you don't want the front person dragging and straining the costume. That would not

Zach: if Ian, if Ian was in the front then, um, yeah, I would've died up at Harker Pass

Ally: Are you the tallest one?

Zach: No, we're all relatively the same height. Yeah

Ally: you being in the front and then like, well, could everybody see? But I guess you also kind of ran beside each other kind of too, not always just like right in a line.

Zach: for the most part, we are in a line, and that's-- You bring up a good point. I mean, it was if you're anyone except for the front guy, me, you can't see in front of you, 'cause if you look down, all you have is this giant tube. So, you know, especially the Indy Mini, where you have a lot of [00:38:00] potholes and train tracks and things like that, it took a lot of communication, and it is hard to communicate with someone that's, like, 30 feet behind you while there's music playing to your right and people cheering to your left.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: so I feel bad. I'm sure there were a few ankles rolled, but, um, we, we made it through it.

Ally: It would be so bad. Yeah, the caterpillar goes down and, like, rips in half.

Zach: Yeah, exactly. We, we were worried about that, especially like on the in and out of the Mini, uh, the, sorry, the, IMS where, where you go down really steep and then back up. I, you know, I was gonna be slowing down. I for sure thought we were gonna trip somewhere

Ally: Yeah. I didn't think

Zach: Made it through

Ally: aspect of it and not being able to really see.

Zach: We, we figured that out, like right away when we first tried it on and did our one training run in it. we were at the Hawthorns, and the way the Hawthorns is, it's, it's literally a neighborhood that's a loop. It's about three and a half miles. And we were coming out of the main entrance by the clubhouse, and we turned left, and we almost...

I don't know how we didn't do it, but we should have [00:39:00] clotheslined a biker that was just doing loops, because I went to the far end, and everyone else went to the short, 'cause there was no communication. 'Cause I was like, "I'm going on a run. I don't know what you guys are doing." And we created this 25-foot blockade

Ally: Oh

Zach: in the middle of Hawthorns on complete accident.

We just didn't know what we were doing. so that was kind of the wake-up call of, "Okay, yeah, maybe we should, uh, figure out how to do this."

Ally: Yeah. That's... Oh my gosh, the biker. Like to

Zach: The poor guy.

Ally: "Oh my gosh." Ugh,

Zach: out of all the things that could've happened to me on this Saturday morning ride, this is it?

Ally: Yeah, right. Like, did not see this coming

Zach: Yes

Ally: Yeah. Okay, so the caterpillar's done. What makes it... Why did you... Why are you just like, "Oh, we're good."

Zach: Again, like I, I, I don't think any of us care that much to like keep pushing it. I have a family, Cade... I mean, everyone's married, but Cade has a little one on the way, and it's just one of those things like coordinating a lot of people's schedules that all have jobs, all have [00:40:00] wives or soon-to-be kids or whatever,

Ally: Yeah.

Zach: that's near impossible.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: and then, you know, the, the hardest part, at least in my opinion about this whole thing is you have to get five or six people, whatever it is, to the start line healthy and able to do it,

Ally: That

Zach: right? Which, whi- which is extremely difficult. We lost Caleb, literally with a week to go, for the Mini and had to find a replacement that quickly.

Ally: didn't know that. Whoa

Zach: Yeah, he had dual, compartment syndrome, I think is what it's called, surgery in his calves, and it had been bothering him and it- he couldn't get it to tame down. So it was a, it was a sprint to find somebody else. But luckily, um, we were able to do it

Ally: Yeah, how did you find somebody else?

Zach: Uh, you know, like I said, we have to have someone run with us in the, and film it. So David, had already volunteered to do that. So we just said, "Okay, David, you're the backup. Jump on in."

Ally: Yeah

Zach: then we just had to find a new cameraman, and luckily our, um, [00:41:00] documentarian or filmmaker, whatever, had one of his guys that was able to do it.

Ally: That's good.

Zach: it was all... It was quick, and sh- uh, TJ Daily saved all of us. we were sponsored by Mountain Coast in the second one, and there was like one, one number in the shoe size that was off, so we had to go out and find new shoes for this guy on like a three-day notice, and we knew Mountain Coast wasn't gonna be able to ship them in and all this stuff.

So it was, uh, it was scary, but we got it done, and TJ saved the day

Ally: I was like, "Yeah, TJ's probably got every size in his trunk."

Zach: Yes.

Ally: I

Zach: He's the best

Ally: He is the best. He- I got a pair of R1s that I ended up running the Full Mo in. I was glad I got enough miles on 'em to feel good about wearing them for the race, and they were great shoes. I mean, my feet hurt by the end of the Full Mo, but I feel like when you run 31 miles your feet are going to

Zach: Your feet are gonna hurt

Ally: Uh, especially when I don't do that all the time. So

Zach: Yes

Ally: they were, they were [00:42:00] great shoes. I didn't, I forgot that they had sponsored you. the camera guys, were they... I can't remember. I'm trying to picture the pictures I've seen. Are, were they on bikes or, were they literally running?

Zach: They were literally running the entire thing. Yeah, so if you go back and look at photos of either attempt, maybe not every photo, 'cause, you know, they're, good at staying discreet, but they're there and you can see them just running alongside us holding a GoPro in their hand.

Ally: great.

Zach: they're the real heroes of the show.

Th- they don't,

Ally: Yeah

Zach: don't get their name on a plaque and yet they still show up and do it for us

Ally: Right. You should, like, make him a fake, like, honorary plaque.

Zach: We, we made sure they got a plaque, it just doesn't have their name on it.

Ally: good. Perfect. That's, that's excellent. Well, I find that so fun and fascinating that you guys did that, so congrats. I think

Zach: Yes

Ally: to be able to say that you're a Guinness Book of World Records record holder. I mean,

Zach: it is funny. It's like the perfect two truths and a lie at work or something or wherever. And then, you know, as your, your daughter grows [00:43:00] up, it's one of those, "Hey, you know this book that you won at the book fair, your, your old man's in it from an old version," right? So

Ally: right. You know, it could be a great kids book too for her. You know, write a kids book about the f- five person caterpillar

Zach: Yeah.

Ally: broke a world record. Do you get notified if somebody attempts or breaks the record or just, you have to go check yourself if you

Zach: you have to go check yourself. Now, I will say, 'cause this is insane, about a month after we got the four-person record at Geist, a group in Manchester beat our record, but it was never certified. So a group in Manchester did the four-person Caterpillar in an hour and 14 minutes.

Ally: Oh. Shut up

Zach: Uh-huh. so technically if you look up online who holds the world record for the fastest four-person half-marathon, whatever, it shows the group in Manchester.

But then if you go down to the first link, which is the official Guinness World Record site, it's still us. So

Ally: Oh

Zach: they- we've technically been beat. I'll honor it 'cause an hour 14 is bananas even without a costume.

Ally: yeah.

Zach: [00:44:00] so yeah, they, they can have it. I'm good

Ally: Right. You're like, "Now I got the five person anyway, so

Zach: Yeah.

Ally: Yeah, it's all good. You can have that one," and then, Do you

Zach: Yeah.

Ally: Mike Cole is? Do you know Mike? so Mike Cole holds the Guinness Book of World Records record for the fastest marathon run holding a pizza. yeah.

Zach: There's too much stuff out there. I mean, the pizza, the pizza has more merit than a Caterpillar half marathon,

Ally: Well, he

Zach: but

Ally: pizzas around town, so that's

Zach: Really?

Ally: pizza. And so anyway, I interviewed him a long time ago, but he's a badass, Mike. You'll have

Zach: That's hilarious

Ally: him up. But I just find the Guinness Book of World Records stuff so interesting because records for everything.

Zach: Yeah, uh

Ally: when you were looking, like how did you... Yeah, I guess you saw the video on the internet. Did you look for any other running type ones, or was that the one that you're like, "We're gonna do that one"?

Zach: That was it. That, that was really just the one. I was shocked after we did the four-person that there was a five-person and then a six-person. Like, there, there's all these already previous except, which is insane.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: no, I mean, I've done it twice now. I [00:45:00] have no interest in doing another one, so I, I don't, Y- oh, I mean, if you can hold a pizza, that's pretty sweet. I might do that,

Ally: Yeah. Well, he froze the pizza and, like, held it under his arm for part... Like, he had a whole strategy,

Zach: or,

Ally: yeah, he... I

Zach: yeah, we, we don't have a strategy. The strategy for us was just to have no strategy. Yes. Run fast, don't get-

Ally: don't, don't break. Yeah. I was gonna ask if it was gender specific

Zach: Uh, no, it is not.

Ally: I wonder if then I could be like, "Oh, I'm gonna get four women and be the fastest women." I'm

Zach: Yeah

Ally: probably to break a world record like that, but close

Zach: th- there's so many out there. There's like the, the target is just all over the place. But no, I, I, I don't think any of the costumed half marathons were, um, gender specific, which is interesting

Ally: I wonder if then you could fight for that and be like, "Well, we were women doing it, so we

Zach: Yeah

Ally: for us," you know?

Zach: Mom, we

Ally: I'm sure I, I'm sure I could rope some women into it,

Zach: can't.

Ally: I would have to probably train for that. My, my half PR is [00:46:00] 1:43, so I mean

Zach: You can do it. I mean, like the, the Caterpillar, it probably only costs you a couple minutes over the course of the, the half. I mean, it's really light. It doesn't really

Ally: Yeah.

Zach: hurt you, so.

Ally: but

Zach: Can't see, you know, you can't use the bathroom. It, it makes it challenging to get drinks, but yeah, it's fine.

Ally: Oh, right.

Zach: You'll get over it

Ally: point, the drinks. did you pass it back? Did you all go at once and, like, grab them? you just not

Zach: No, we, we did nothing. Yeah. Uh, I, I've never, like the full no always freaks me out 'cause I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I have to worry about like gels and water and hydration." Whereas before I'm just like, regardless of how far I'm running, I'm just like, "Shoes. We're out," right? Let's just go. Don't forget the sunglasses or the hat, but otherwise it's like, don't need water, don't need gels, don't need gummy worms or any of that

Ally: go. Wow. That's so, that's so wild. so for the full mo then, how did you [00:47:00] prepare? Did you have a vest? Did you carry stuff then to hydrate or

Zach: No. So Cade and I ran together. we didn't wear vests or anything, but our wives were in on this and, like, really the superheroes of this whole thing because they met us, like, every couple miles and was like, "What do you need? Do you need this? Do you need this?" And, you know, kept us alive. but no, I mean, there, there was really no strategy.

We were making it up as we go. it was mandatory, though. After the first time I did the Full Mo, I was at the- FRC does a, um, aid station, right, at,

Ally: one.

Zach: Community Center.

Ally: Yes

Zach: year I ran it, I was there and I didn't want anything. But I'm, you know, standing there and I see fireball shots, and I'm like, "Well, of course."

Um, so I, I take a fireball shot mile 19 or

20 of the Full Mo. And then, this year it was, like, a thing. Alan reached out to me and I told him, like, "Dude, I'm only stopping if you have fireball shots." And sure enough, by the time we get to Carmel, Alan pulls up in the middle of the trail, gives Cade and I both a fireball [00:48:00] shot. He takes one himself.

And, um,

Ally: I think I saw a picture of that.

Zach: yes. Yeah, we did it. And, uh, that's the only reason I finished, so

Ally: That's amazing. I was offered. I declined politely. They had like a half gallon of Fireball

Zach: Yeah, that- that's a, that's what he drank out of.

Ally: like, "Holy moly." I, uh, yeah, I remember I spectated at that, aid station two years ago, then last year I spectated at the athletic annex station, which was actually not the first one, it was the last one, um,

Zach: Huh

Ally: And, uh, I remember just thinking about the FRC aid station. Like the whole time I ran this time I was like, "I just gotta get there

Zach: You gotta get to mile 20, right?

Ally: gonna be amazing. It's gonna give me like new life," and it did 'cause there's just... They crushed it, as

Zach: Yes

Ally: just with everything you could ever want

Zach: Yeah.

Ally: aid station,

Zach: No, they, they were awesome. , But I mean, I was so focused on just getting south that I didn't really pay attention to what anyone had on their table. I was just like, "Give me what I need, and, like,

Ally: Did you

Zach: let's get out of here."

Ally: Did you

Zach: no.

Ally: [00:49:00] anything?

Zach: No, just gels.

Ally: just gel.

Zach: Yeah, just a couple of them.

Ally: was like, "Geez,

Zach: Yeah, no,

Ally: gels."

Zach: No, I don't think Cade had anything.

he might've had a gummy worm or two. Then another guy, one of Cade's buddies, I have to give this guy a shout-out. He showed up. He didn't know he was running until the day before, ' cause someone dropped out and he just took their bib.

Ally: Jeez

Zach: he had, like, two gels. He stored them in his hat 'cause he didn't have pockets.

It was all he had left in his pantry, and he got, like, fifth or something.

Ally: Of course. Just casually

Zach: there's just people out there that are just gifted, and I am not one of them

Ally: yeah, it's so different. I'm thinking like I had at least nine gels. I needed

Zach: Yeah

Ally: My friend Lindsay gave me one. I ate a few pretzels here and there. I had some watermelon at the Fisher's aid station. but yeah, it, I, people who don't fuel or don't have to fuel, I'm just like, "Wow, you guys are,

Zach: I don't get it.

Ally: super human."

Zach: Yeah, no, I made it to mile 20, and then the taste of the gel would just make me, like,

Ally: Ugh,

Zach: derail. So I was just like, "All right, I'm done." Like, I don't wanna see another gel. I'll just get there and, obviously the [00:50:00] cramps start coming in at mile 25. She's like, "I think you should have gel."

Like, just

Ally: Yeah. I'll

Zach: deal with it

Ally: last year this guy at the athletic annex, it was probably, uh, mile 27 we were at, and this guy comes up and he's like, "Hey, how long is this race?" I was like, "Well,

Zach: W- I heard that too, which is crazy

Ally: mean?" I was like, "Well, we're at mile 27." And he's like, "No, like how long is the, the race?"

I'm like... I, I was so confused by the question 'cause I'm like, "What do you mean you don't know how far you have to run?" Like, are you

Zach: Yeah.

Ally: Like what if I would've

Zach: No, someone...

Ally: probably been like, "Okay."

Zach: Yeah, I, I don't know if they were joking or what. Someone asked me the same thing when we were out there. I'm just like,

Ally: Really, this time?

Zach: " Yeah." I

Ally: Oh.

Zach: was like, "Uh..." I mean,

Ally: Man, ultra

Zach: did, did they just get done with... Yeah, yeah. It's, it's a different breed. I, I know we're both one of them now, but, I refuse to believe that I'm an ultra runner, but

Ally: you know what's weird is it hasn't sunk in for me and I feel like I'm not a real ultra runner even though I ran an ultra marathon. It's like, no, there's like people who started at midnight and ran [00:51:00] from downtown to Sheridan then did it again.

Zach: Yeah. And then woke up and ran Carmel the next day.

Ally: that's an

Zach: Yeah.

Ally: not me."

Zach: Yeah, I feel like 100K is the threshold. I feel like a fraud. And I don't, I don't mean to discredit anyone else's, you know, accomplishment of the Pulmo or a 50K, but it's like, I feel like a fraud saying, "Yeah, I d- I ran an ultramarathon." "Well, how far was it?"

"Oh, just like four miles further than..." Or not even four. Five miles further than an actual marathon." "Okay.

Ally: Yeah,

Zach: you, you ran back to your car after Monumental."

Ally: Right, yeah. That's, that doesn't count. Yeah.

Zach: Right

Ally: so funny to think about that. I, I tell people, it's like I tell my non-runner friends how far I ran, and they are just, like, flabbergasted. And then I tell my running friends, and they're like, "Cool." It's

Zach: Yeah.

Ally: know,

Zach: Good job

Ally: way to go. And you're like, you know, I'm on my, the internet and it's everybody runs ultramarathons on the

Zach: Yes.

Ally: not a big deal."

But, but we're ultramarathoners, okay? We did

Zach: Yep, it's real. It's official.

Ally: yes. Um,

Zach: Ultra sign-up account or whatever [00:52:00] it's called

Ally: now, which is kinda weird. And I knew... I didn't even know you could look to see who was running the race. That was new to me.

Zach: Really?

Ally: apparently, you can look before the race, you can go and you can see everybody who's registered.

Zach: Interesting

Ally: Fun fact for anybody who does not know that.

Zach: Yeah

Ally: learned that. And you can go, obviously, look at results now, but people will do that, especially for backyard ultras, where you're, you know, trying to see who else can go the distance with you kinda strategy.

Zach: Yeah

Ally: that's big, I guess. I don't know. I'm learning so much, 'cause I know nothing about ultramarathoning.

Zach: for a UFC fight. You don't know who you're fighting against for a Backyard Ultra. I mean, some, some of these guys, you know, I, I'm signed up for Prairie On Fire this year. I don't know if I'm gonna do it or not,

Ally: Oh,

Zach: of those things where it's like,

Ally: You're gonna do

Zach: I don't know. But, you know, some of the people that do those are just absolute animals, and they'll go do it 25 miles.

Like, it's Tuesday and, you know, wake up and do it again tomorrow. It makes no sense.

Ally: Yep,

Zach: But

Ally: is mind-blowing. Well, [00:53:00] I'm hoping to spectate at that race again this year. I went and spectated for the first time last year. So if, the math for the Full Mo translates to Prairie On Fire, I guess I'll do Prairie On Fire next year, 'cause I have to spectate twice, and then

Zach: There you go. Then, then you go

Ally: Then I'll do it. Oh, man. Well, I think it's so interesting, meeting somebody like you, I just see and assume you run all the time, you do all the races. And so I just think it's so interesting to talk to somebody who's like, "Yeah, you know, I've done a couple. I do a couple races. Like, it's not my entire personality.

How often

Zach: No

Ally: like, in the week when you're not trying to

Zach: I... Maybe three days, four days if I'm crazy. I mean, it, it's not like I'm, not running, right? I, I try to, I try to do something every morning. So like this morning I swam or, you know, I'll bike or I'll, I'll do something. but I try to keep a good balance 'cause the issue that I faced was, back in high school when I was just running, I would get injured all the time, and even throughout college.

So I was like, "Okay, we need to stop running and figure out something else that doesn't [00:54:00] hurt."

Ally: Mm-hmm.

Zach: so then got into biking and swimming, and obviously that creates its own sport.

Ally: I was like, "Ooh, yeah, that sounds like you're getting into another sport."

Zach: yes. done a couple of those. Those are a ton of fun. But, yeah, I just, I, I don't take it seriously. I think there's so many other things that I personally need to be concerned about, that running is just kind of put on the back burner.

But yeah, it, yeah, it's fun when I get to do it. It's time to yourself. It's a, it's a great form of meditation, but it's, like, also not mandatory when so many other things are.

Ally: Right.

Zach: Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm a one guy. I'll show up, I'll do a couple races a year, see what I can do, and use it more. Like, I'm not...

I've chased a PR once in my life, but I'm mostly like a benchmark guy where it's like, "Okay, where am I actually at from a physical fitness perspective?" 'Cause my Garmin tells me I'm terrible.

Ally: Right, you're

Zach: but like

Ally: all.

Zach: where... Yeah, exactly, where am I? just so we know.

Ally: Yeah.

Zach: yeah

Ally: That makes sense. Well, I mean, you're so fast just naturally. I mean, I think compared to the average person, right? Like, you might not feel that way maybe compared to a couple of [00:55:00] your friends, but it's like when I look at you guys, it's like, wow, that's above average speed for not...

Zach: Yeah

Ally: guys that are always constantly training to, hit PRs, which I think is pretty great.

You can go out and bang out a world record,

Zach: Yeah. I mean, I, I don't... Look, I, I don't... Yeah, sure, I might be a little over average. I don't know what the average even is.

Ally: I don't either actually, but

Zach: but like, I... Yeah, there, there's so many more talented people out there that actually put in effort and actually show up and can run some incredible times. Like, I'm just a guy that, you

Ally: a

Zach: know.

Ally: who

Zach: The, the, yeah, I don't, I don't, yeah, I don't take it seriously. I, I, I don't try to compare myself to others who I know I always lose, cause I'm not. Like, you, you might say I'm a fast runner, but like, in reality, it's like, the only person I'm competing against is myself from last year.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: like, as long as I'm faster or relatively close, and I said I chased a PR this year, or last year at Zionsville, and that's only because like I had gone through a few years, [00:56:00] like I ran a 1:21 when I was like 19 years old at the Indy Mini,

Ally: Yeah

Zach: ever since I've not even been able to get within five minutes of that.

So I told, Cade, one of the faster guys, I was like, "Dude, I need to run a sub 1:20. I don't care how it happens, it's happening." And we did it at Zionsville, thank goodness. So now I know I can do it, but that screws me up for this year.

Ally: mic drop. You're like, "Okay, well I

Zach: Yeah,

Ally: so

Zach: I can do it. I, I'm, I'm better than I was when I was 19 years old,

Ally: That's

Zach: when I'm 28.

But yeah, thank you

Ally: yeah, see, that is flying. So anyway, okay, I wanna transition back to the personal side before I ask you the end of the podcast questions, because you have a really cool engagement story, and I always love stuff like this.

, But first, how did you meet your wife?

Zach: we met back in high school. Uh, we were high school sweethearts. Actually, no, I take that back. We met in middle school. We started dating

Ally: Wow

Zach: we met the old-fashioned way of online and, yeah, the, the rest is [00:57:00] history. now, now we've been married five years. We have a daughter.

yeah, it's, it's a ton of fun

Ally: Okay, I'm dying over the fact that you said the old-fashioned way. And I was thinking, "Oh yeah, like in the hallway," and then you're

Zach: Yeah

Ally: and I'm thinking, "Oh my God, I'm so old."

Zach: Yeah, no, exactly. no, it wasn't any of the apps because, you know, I was in middle school. I couldn't sign up for, you know, whatever. Yeah. Um, so It's funny, it's hard to explain that to grandparents, who's like, "What's Instagram?

Ally: Yeah

Zach: a- and why are my grandkids on it?" But, no, I mean, everything happens for a reason. it's perfect. But no, the engagement, it's a, it's a crazy story.

Ally: is so cool. Tell us

Zach: like I, I was in radio and it's like, okay, if I'm gonna get engaged, like I've always thought I was the guy that was like mountain scenery, like all this like fancy stuff. And then, then I started thinking about it, and this was during the time we were planning one of our concerts at the radio station.

It's... We don't, they don't do them anymore, but when I was there, we used to do [00:58:00] Birthday Bash and Jingle Jam with CKL. It was summer concert, winter concert. And we were doing Jingle Jam at Bankers Life Fieldhouse or Gainbridge now, and one of the guys we booked has a song I like, and he's a really cool dude and we know each other.

his name's Max. The name doesn't ring a bell, but if you look up his catalog, you're gonna recognize a couple songs. so I know we booked him for like the middle act. We had an opener and then Lizzo, uh, was headlining. And I reached out to Max and was like, "Dude, listen, I got an idea." And he jumps all in with like, "Yes, we're doing this."

And sure enough, middle of the, um, set, actually it was towards the end, he said, "Hey, I'm gonna bring up Zach and he's gonna do this." So my wife and I got engaged center stage at Bankers Life Fieldhouse back in 2019

Ally: So cool. So

Zach: Yeah

Ally: know what was going to happen then at that point? Because you had to be backstage with her, or how did that, how'd you orchestrate that?

Zach: We, we always had [00:59:00] all access just 'cause we were part of the radio station. so it wasn't like out of the ordinary.

Ally: Okay

Zach: but yeah, I mean, it was... I, it shocked me too, just like being there 'cause I'm, I'm a fan watching this guy from the side stage, and I'm just like, "This is awesome." And then next thing you know, you know, a security guard's coming with me with a flashlight like, "Hey, dude.

Let's go." And I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I'm supposed to be doing this." And, you know, checking pockets, like do I have the ring? What am I gonna say? I had done a stage announcement just before that, and my mic wasn't working, so I was kind of traumatized.

Ally: Yeah. Please, yeah.

Zach: so it's like everything work, everything's gotta be great.

But, um, no, it was awesome. And then, um, she didn't know, but her family was all there, too. so we got to go hang out with them afterwards, and it was a good time

Ally: So did she like, as you walked, you like turned to her and you're like, "We're gonna go out there." Was she like, "What do you mean?"

Zach: Yeah, so something about my wife is she is, she's very quiet, she's very private. So for her to get on stage in front of, you know, 17,000, 18,000 people is [01:00:00] nerve-wracking. it, it is for anybody. Um, but it was just one of those things like I'm gonna grab your hand and I'm not gonna let go, and I'm gonna drag you up there if I have to because this is gonna look bad on both of us if we don't do this.

Ally: Yeah. You're like, "Just trust me."

Zach: yeah, just trust me, this is gonna be fun. And then, yeah, it, it was, it was awesome

Ally: And getting the ring into the stadium, like, g- 'cause going through security they usually have you empty your pockets, but, like, given your all access, were you able to avoid, like, her seeing that? I mean, I feel like that would be kinda tricky

Zach: Yeah, so I got there earlier in the day.

Ally: Perfect.

Zach: So I, I parked in the basement and walked through, like, a different security checkpoint. So the ring was already backstage in a separate room s- uh, when she got there, so she had no idea what was going on. And then, you know, I got... I went to the front and got her and brought her back and everything, but she had no clue.

It's

Ally: Oh, excellent. I love

Zach: awesome.

Ally: much. Oh, man. well, I'm gonna ask you the end of the podcast questions now, um, with a bonus question to start. Okay? [01:01:00] The bonus question is what is your favorite flavor of Blue Bell ice cream?

Zach: Oh, that's a great question. see, this is gonna be very controversial because I know a lot of people think cookies and cream is the best, and a lot of people think cookie dough is the best. However, Blue Bell makes a flavor called Cookie Two Step, and shut the It is cookies and cream and, chocolate chip cookie dough all in one, and it is diabetes in a cup, and it's the greatest thing ever.

Ally: me up for that.

Zach: Yes, it's the best

Ally: Okay, and why Blue Bell?

Zach: it, it, I mean, let, let's be honest, it's the only real ice cream in the stores. It's just the best. no, I, I grew up, I grew up, my dad always bought Blue Bell, and

Ally: Oh,

Zach: it's just kind of the gold standard for us.

Ally: Cookie Two-Step. I'm gonna look for it. Where can I buy it locally?

Zach: Oh, everywhere.

Ally: Kroger?

Zach: Yeah

Ally: Okay. okay, now for the official two end of the podcast questions. The first is what is your favorite running song and/or mantra?

Zach: Song or mantra? you know, I'll, I'll go with the song side. I have a playlist on my Garmin that I have [01:02:00] had for probably two years now, the whole time I've had a Garmin, because I keep forgetting how to change the songs from Spotify on my Garmin.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: so it's the same grouping of songs. but I would say like the go-to artists within that catalog are probably KB, Cameron Whitcomb, and Josiah Queen maybe, just all across the board.

Ally: Love

Zach: You got, you gotta hit all emotions.

Ally: with your phone

Zach: No

Ally: you... Okay, interesting. and then do you have a mantra or like something you tell yourself while you're running?

Zach: Not really, just, you know, don't have to use the bathroom in the middle of this cornfield. It's just...

Ally: yeah, we could talk about that. That was a

Zach: Yeah, that's, uh, that's, yeah. I, I don't really have anything like that. It's just more,

Ally: Yeah, get it done. Okay, and the next finish line or milestone

Zach: Yeah, I mean, as we discussed, I don't really think like putting a race here is like technically the, the right thing, 'cause like I said, I, I got something coming up. I don't even know if I'm gonna do it, and I don't have any races on the calendar other than that. But I would say like, you know, we just talked about my [01:03:00] wife and I, that we have our five-year anniversary, June 5th.

So

Ally: Oh my gosh,

Zach: I don't, I don't know when this podcast comes out, but yeah, tomorrow.

Ally: Yeah

Zach: so yeah, that's, that's a milestone that we're both really proud of and something to celebrate.

Ally: Half a decade, man.

Zach: Yes

Ally: It goes fast. were you gonna do something special? Do you have, like, a ritual or a place you go to dinner?

Zach: not really. We're just, we like trying new places out, so we're gonna go to a new spot and have fun. Just do dinner, um, let the grandparents watch the little one so we can get some peace and quiet.

Ally: Yes.

Zach: but yeah

Ally: yes. Good. Well, congrats. That's exciting.

Zach: Yes. Thank you

Ally: And now if TJ Daily is listening, which I'm now gonna make sure he listens, he will make sure you run Prairie on Fire.

Zach: Yes.

Ally: Ugh, he's a

Zach: We'll, we'll see.

Ally: to. He

Zach: We'll see.

Ally: He wore me down, so

Zach: I mean, I might go out there... What time does it even start? I, I forget. It's like 8:00 in the morning or 8:00 at night. I don't know which one.

Ally: in the morning. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's

Zach: Makes me feel a little bit more comfortable, but-

Ally: It'd be great. You know,

Zach: Run a couple yards

Ally: "Oh, all you have to do is just [01:04:00] go, you can just run a couple laps or yards and then stop." I'm like, "Yeah, TJ, that's not what

Zach: Yeah.

Ally: out there." Like, I

Zach: I'll run a couple yards, but a couple yards in the actual, uh, measurement book, not, uh, not four miles. Maybe three feet is all today

Ally: Right. Yeah, an actual yard.

Zach: Yeah

Ally: Well, thanks for doing this, Zach. It was really fun

Zach: No, thank you. This is fun

Ally: Yeah, really fun. So, and thank you to everybody who has listened, and happy running. It's how we do it.

Zach: There you go

Ally: Okay, now, wherever you are, go to the show notes, wherever you're listening, or remember to go to the show notes when you get back from the run or out of the car, and sign up for Finish Lines and Milestones weekly emails. I send those every Friday with stuff about my own running, my episodes, things I love that are running-related usually, and I try to make them not suck.

So that's the best way to support the show. Of course, you can always share. That helps others find the podcast. And thank you so much to Goodr and Noogs for supporting this episode. If you wanna hear more about my Fullmo experience, you can listen to this month's episode of [01:05:00] Catching Up With Coach, which is the June episode where we dive into that, and I also have a full recap coming soon, so stay tuned for that as well, and I will talk to you next week.

Bye.

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