Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 172: Chris Jones - Stay Obsessed

Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 172: Chris Jones - Stay Obsessed

Here's how people can enjoy this episode:

Guest: Chris Jones @runningcoachchris

Show Notes:

⁠Chris Jones⁠ and I first connected online, then met up for coffee before this conversation.

During this episode, sponsored by ⁠Kila⁠, we talk about:

  • [00:07:00] Playing goalkeeper for five years in college soccer
  • [00:12:00] Signing up for the Indy Mini Half Marathon with zero training at his wife Fiona's request
  • [00:16:00] The accidental progression that followed: one marathon (Monumental), a 50-miler he signed up for without ever running a 50K, and a 100-mile finish at the Indiana Trail 100
  • [00:20:00] The complete stranger who paced him the final 20 miles of that 100-miler
  • [00:02:00] His work as a physical therapist and running coach at Divergent Rehab + Wellness in Carmel, where 90% of his caseload is runners
  • [00:05:00] Why he refuses to tell an injured runner to just stop running
  • [00:13:00] Meeting his wife Fiona in sixth grade — and the two mutual friends (now his best friends) she dated before him
  • [00:09:00] Moving to Washington state during COVID, then back to Avon for family and free childcare
  • [00:37:00] Building Running Coach Chris on Instagram and how the name stuck from a childhood nickname
  • [00:42:00] Training through the middle of the night to prepare for Prairie on Fire, and why headlamp practice matters more than people think
  • [00:48:00] Last year's Prairie on Fire, getting sick mid-race, and still covering 71–72 miles before calling it
  • [00:34:00] Launching Stay Obsessed with his friend Joe — the lifestyle brand behind a brand-new race
  • [00:24:00] The Big BO 50K debuting October 10th in Speedway, with 5K, 10K, 25K, and 50K options
  • [00:54:00] His go-to ultra fuel: mashed potatoes and broth, and rice with soy sauce and pineapple
  • [00:59:00] His mantra "if I just run faster, it'll be done sooner" — and the healthier one he actually leans on, "just move forward"
  • [00:51:00] His daughter "playing ultramarathon" around the house, and teaching his girls to love the sport the right way

Previous Guests Mentioned

Sponsor Details

  • ⁠Kila⁠ - Use ALLYB for $50 off your first order

Other Links

This is a ⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠ podcast.

Episode Transcript

Chris Jones: the appeal is truly pushing your limits.

Yeah. So you just go until you cannot go. There's no finish line. which is appealing to me as someone who's done 100 miles and just wanna know- Yeah ... what else can I do?

Ally Brettnacher: Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast for everyday runners. I am your host, Ally Brettnacher, and if you run, you're a runner, and every runner has a story. Join me each week as I share these stories and we celebrate finish lines and milestones together. This week's episode is brought to you by KILA, K-I-L-A.

More on them in a bit. But first, I wanna introduce you to this week's guest, the second Chris Jones to appear on this podcast. This week's Chris Jones was a collegiate soccer player, and he played goalkeeper and barely ran until his wife, Fiona, talked him into doing one of our local races called the Indy Mini Half Marathon with zero training, which he still calls the most physically painful race he's ever done, even more so than his [00:01:00] 100-miler.

In this episode, Chris walks through the accidental progression that followed after that mini marathon. He did a marathon, then a 50-miler that he signed up for without ever running a 50K, which is the normal progression, and a 100-mile finish at the IT, the Indiana Trail 100, alongside a complete stranger who paced him for the last 20 miles.

We get into his work as a PT here locally in Carmel at Divergent Rehab & Wellness And Chris is currently about to run Prairie On Fire, which is a local backyard ultra that takes place on September 12th. We talk about the launch of Stay Obsessed, the brand behind a brand-new race coming to you on October 10th, also in Indianapolis, the Big Bow 50K.

It'll be in Speedway. There will be a link in the show notes here to register. .

There is a 5K, a 10K, 25K, and a 50K

All right, so wherever you're listening, I hope you enjoy this conversation with Chris.

Hello, Chris. Good morning.

Chris Jones: Hi. Welcome. Glad to be here.

Ally Brettnacher: So happy to have you.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Uh, [00:02:00] did you know that there was another Chris Jones already on this podcast?

Chris Jones: I did not actually know that, but I know there's a lot of Chris Joneses around. There's actually a football player famously named Chris Jones. Yeah.

It's not me.

Ally Brettnacher: Not you. I wish, maybe. Yeah. Maybe not.

Chris Jones: One day.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. So you and I first met on the internet-

Chris Jones: Yes ...

Ally Brettnacher: and then for coffee. Now here we are.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: I can't wait for people to get to know you and how you, you started your running journey, and then you ended up running 100 miles. Yes. I feel like people are always...

W- I am is am one of those people, I'm always just in awe of people who have run 100 miles, and how the heck do you get to that point? So we're gonna talk about your entire story- I suppose to start, maybe we can just talk about what you're doing now, and then we'll go back to how soccer started-

Chris Jones: Yeah ...

Ally Brettnacher: your- Right.

your running journey. Um, but yeah. Tell people where you work and about your coaching.

Chris Jones: Yeah. So I do a lot of everything running, basically. I am a physical [00:03:00] therapist at Divergent Rehab + Wellness here in Carmel. Um, on top of that, I also coach runners, and then I am working on hosting a race as well. So from getting injured runners back to running, helping runners perform, and then providing a space for them to perform, I'm kind of doing every aspect of the running community, which is pretty cool.

I think, um, I've just recently kinda made the transition to working at Divergent, and it's allowed me to focus on working with, I'd say 90% of my caseload is runners, which is really cool. Yeah. So I spend all day talking to and hanging out with runners, which is really fun.

Ally Brettnacher: The best.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Yeah. Can't beat it.

That's...

Ally Brettnacher: Right. You're in good company. I know, you're thinking, when you say, "I do a lot of things running," that's how I tend to introduce myself too. Yeah. 'Cause it's like, well, I'm, well, I'm a podcaster. What... You know, people don't- Yeah. I'm like, well, I do... My life revolves around running, basically, and my love for the sport.

Um, so yeah, I, we share that obviously. I think you're gonna be a good role model with the PT. You can perhaps get me to stretch or do the exercises I [00:04:00] should. I am such a cliche runner. You've probably heard me say that before, where I- Oh, yeah ... have been to PT, and then I'll do the exercises if I really have to in order to get back to running.

But then it falls off. So- Yeah ... I, I feel like people, you probably see that all the time with 90% of your people being runners.

Chris Jones: Yeah. I tend to see a lot of people who end up having battle injuries for a long time, and this tends to be in runners reach out. It's like, "Oh, this thing's been going on for six months, a year, two years now.

It's finally impacting me to the point of I can't run as much as I want to, or I'm only running a s- certain pace and want to get faster again." Um, runners are notorious for just, like, putting things off. And I'm guilt- I mean, I'm a physical therapist and coach. I know these things, and I'm guilty of it.

It's easy as a runner to just kinda be like, "Eh, I'll just kinda, like, let it slide for a while. Like, let's see what happens." But I tend to get people pretty far into that, like, process. And a lot of times they've tried PT before, didn't have a lot of success. Um, [00:05:00] but then, uh, I feel like as a runner and- like, coach myself, I have a little bit of a different perspective for people.

And I think being able to relate to them on a like, "Yeah, I understand that you wanna go and run a marathon, or you wanna go and run 50 miles or 100 miles, and that's not crazy." Whereas in their previous PT experience, they might have been told, "Yeah, you should just stop running." Or they've maybe had a doctor say, "Hey, this is bad for your knee.

You should stop running."

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: And so I think once they find me, it's, it's usually relatable in the sense of like, I'm not gonna tell you to stop. It's the last thing I wanna do, is take a runner and just cut running from their life. 'Cause running for them is not just a form of physical exercise. It's usually a big mental health component.

Mm. It is like a break for them. It is a separation between, like, work and their personal life. Mm-hmm. It can be a number of things. So I think that's really helpful. And then I usually get them in, and we start doing- we actually get to spend quite a bit of time talking and getting to know each other, 'cause we have longer evaluations and longer time during session.

And so we kinda get to the actual, like, root of the problem, which [00:06:00] oftentimes isn't a single thing. There's usually multifactorial- Right ... problems going on. Um, and we actually solve it, and they either walk away that day feeling better, or we've given them exercises that are usually hard enough that they actually feel something and come back in A week, two weeks, three weeks and go, "Oh, I actually feel a difference," and it wasn't just the same-

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm

Chris Jones: here's your basic easy PT exercises, and they feel better. And I think that's a, a big reason people keep coming back is like they actually notice a difference, and then they stick to it.

Ally Brettnacher: Right. That's, I mean, that's... You g- You get a reward out of it. Yeah. You're like, "Okay, yeah, I can do it for that." Now, where in Carmel is it located?

Chris Jones: We are, um, inside of Dugan Sports Performance, um, which is, I kind of tell people it's like right off of Midtown. So if you know where like the water tower is-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ...

Chris Jones: basically directly west of that in a little-

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. I've driven by it. I know

Chris Jones: what you're talking about ... a little cul-de-sac. You wouldn't ever go back there if you're not going to one of the training facilities there- Yeah

or our clinic, basically.

Ally Brettnacher: So it's a- But it's a great location. It's-

Chris Jones: Yes, it's amazing. It's right... I mean, we're two-minute walk to the [00:07:00] Monon. Right. And then we have a really great... We have... Again, we're inside of a gym, and it's a high-level gym, so we have all sorts of heavier weights, exercise equipment, turf space, space to go outside.

We can go on the Monon. Um, really great setup. It's very... A lot of people come in there and go like, "Oh, this is, this is different from a PT clinic," 'cause it, it is. We're inside of a gym, and there's high-level athletes working out alongside you, and you kind of feel like, "Oh, this is actually where I should be as an athlete."

Yeah. 'Cause most runners obviously identify as an athlete. Yep. Um, so yeah, it fits. It fits that mold for sure.

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm. Okay, so now let's go back to how this whole running journey got kicked off for you. Oh, look at that pun. I didn't even do that on purpose. Um, but you were a collegiate athlete playing soccer.

Chris Jones: Yeah. Yeah, I

Ally Brettnacher: played- That's cool ...

Chris Jones: played soccer for... I... Red shirts, so I played for five years, and then I was a grad assistant while in PT school, so I kind of... Soccer was all I did growing up. I think I ran in middle school, and then soccer gets in the way. You can't do both 'cause it's a fall sport- Mm-hmm ... in high school, so you gotta pick one, and soccer is where I went.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: And a lot of people, I mean, I tell [00:08:00] them I played college soccer, and then they're like, "Oh yeah, that makes sense for running." And then I tell them I was a goalkeeper. So I didn't really run a whole lot. Ooh. Um, running was always something I enjoyed, but it was never like a part of my training per se.

Right. I mean, I just would do it for fun on my own. And then after, after playing in college I was like, "Oh, I need that competitive edge again and-"

Ally Brettnacher: Right. Yeah ...

Chris Jones: running.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, that's so interesting. I don't know if I knew you were a keeper.

Chris Jones: No, most people don't. And I'm short too, so most people don't expect it.

Ally Brettnacher: Right. Okay, so what age did you start playing soccer? Do you remember?

Chris Jones: Oh, like five-

Ally Brettnacher: Okay ...

Chris Jones: six, since I could-

Ally Brettnacher: Do you have siblings? ... kick

Chris Jones: a ball. Yeah, I have a sister and a brother. Neither one of them played soccer though.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. Yeah. So just, just you.

Chris Jones: Just me.

Ally Brettnacher: And are you from this area?

Chris Jones: Yep, I grew up in Avon. Um, so been here.

I kept... I tell people I tried to get away. My extended family's all- That's funny ... from the West Coast. All from the West Coast. So eventually I was trying to move out to California, go to college out there. But like I just had good opportunity to play at UIndy and then go to PT school at UIndy which is a great [00:09:00] PT program.

Eventually moved out to Washington for a year and a half with my wife, um, at the end of PT school for my last rotation. We moved out during COVID, so that all kind of- Boo ... fell apart- Yeah, that's unfortunate ... and then we were, find out we were pregnant, so we moved back 'cause both of our parents still live in Avon, so now we're-

Ally Brettnacher: Okay

Chris Jones: back in Avon with free childcare right down the road, which is pretty cool.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Can't beat that. Your story,

Ally Brettnacher: it's so similar to mine. I didn't, we didn't end up moving anywhere, though. We sta- we ended up staying. Yeah. But yeah. I, I always thought, I never thought I would live here-

Chris Jones: Yeah ...

Ally Brettnacher: for my whole life. Um, but now, yeah, we have kids, and we have both sets of grandparents, so you get it.

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, why would I leave? Yep.

Chris Jones: Can't leave that. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Where in Washington State were you?

Chris Jones: Um, like south sound. So we were in near Olympia. Okay. Um, there's, some people are familiar with, um, Joint Base Lew- Lewis-McChord is out there, and so we were right outside- Okay ... of the big base there. Um, I worked in a small town called DuPont, which is literally, like, I mean, I would...

Most of the families that live there are military or ex-military. Gotcha. So a kind of cool community. But then, yeah, we were... I mean, it's [00:10:00] awesome location, 'cause it was hour and a half from the beach, hour and a half from the mountains, tons of state parks, national parks- Yeah ... all within a day's drive, so it's pretty cool.

Ally Brettnacher: Have you gone back since moving here?

Chris Jones: No.

Ally Brettnacher: No.

Chris Jones: Nope. Haven't been back yet.

Ally Brettnacher: Do you wanna go back?

Chris Jones: Yeah. We wanna take our kids. Um, when we were out there, actually, we were planning a trip to Hawaii, because from Seattle, I mean, it's just a-

Ally Brettnacher: Right ...

Chris Jones: direct flight to Hawaii. It's pretty easy. Um- It's nice ... so we wanna eventually, we think we'll take our kids.

We'll go back, stay a couple days in Washington, and then go out to Hawaii once we- Yeah ... once they're a little bit older. They're- ... a little young to be-

Ally Brettnacher: Once you wanna be trapped on a plane- Yeah ... with them for that long. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. How old are your kids now?

Chris Jones: Three and five.

Ally Brettnacher: Three and five. Yeah, two girls.

So fun. Two girls. Yeah. Yeah. Girl dad.

Chris Jones: Oh, yeah. All the things.

Ally Brettnacher: What drew you to being a keeper in particular,

Chris Jones: actually back to the soccer? I, I was just talking to someone the other day about this, and I don't know what it was. I was always, like, pretty fast and athletic, and I think I just liked doing it and then happened to be pretty good at it when I was young.

Um- [00:11:00] And so it just kinda like stuck. And then it's funny, we look back at, there's a picture of us on our U13 soccer team. Uh, I play- I'm still good friend with a lot of my teammates from then. Mm. One of them, my college roommate, still my best friend. Um, and I'm the second tallest person on the team. Um, and then you look at pictures like two or three years later, and I'm like the exact same height, and everyone else is much taller than me.

Oh, that's funny. So it's like, I think at the time I was like a little bit taller, and they're like, "Oh, Chris'll be good in goal." Yeah. Like, that'll be, that'll be fine. That'd be great. And then, yeah, didn't, didn't quite pan out for me. Yeah. I mean, I obviously did well with it, but height is important.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Well, I think, so my nine-year-old plays, and it's at the age where it's like, kinda like they don't really wanna play, or do they- Yeah ... do they wanna play? My daughter will play.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: And she's pretty good at it, but I hate watching her play goalie.

Chris Jones: My, my mom always said that. I, yeah. My mom was terrified. Yeah.

She's like, "It was the most stressful time watching my goalie."

Ally Brettnacher: Right. Yeah. And I used to fake being sick so I wouldn't have to play. I'm pretty sure my coach knew- ... that I just didn't wanna play. I'm, I'm pretty sure I wasn't that savvy. Yeah. But yeah. So it was [00:12:00] after you were playing, you didn't run any of, like, races or long distance stuff while you were a college athlete.

Chris Jones: No, I- It was something after ... I maybe did like a fun 5K. My wife was a runner, so- Okay ... she ran in middle school and high school. Okay. And then kind of always kept running just, like, for fun, so we would occasionally do like, uh, the Valentine's Day 5K or, like, some local, like, fun 5K. We'd occasionally do something like that.

Gotcha. But then it wasn't until after school that she, or after I was done playing soccer, that she kind of asked me like, "Hey, you wanna run the Mini?" I was like, "Sure, I got, I've not trained, I have no soccer anymore. I can train for something." And having never run more than probably, like, four or five miles in one go- Mm-hmm

was like, "Ah, this will be fun." And so did it, and I, uh, I still, I, I still say to this day, we were just talking about it last night, actually, like, that was the hardest race for me physically of anything I've done. I remember my legs being the most- ... painful after that run than they've been after any race I've done since then, which is crazy to think, 'cause I've done 50- Uh-

50K, 100. Right, mile- Like, I've done all sorts of stuff- Yeah ... and it was like, that race still [00:13:00] stands out to me as, like, that hurt the most. The

Ally Brettnacher: most

Chris Jones: painful. But I didn't really train for it. I just kinda thought, like- Right ... "I

Ally Brettnacher: can do that." Oh. But

Chris Jones: yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: No problem.

Chris Jones: Yeah, she kinda-

Ally Brettnacher: Well, and you still did, which is impressive.

Chris Jones: Yeah, she kinda took off at the end of the, of the race, and I was struggling to keep up, which now looking back at it is funny, 'cause she's always like, "Oh, I'm the one keeping up with you now."

Ally Brettnacher: Right. Yeah.

Chris Jones: Yeah. Our running is, running has changed between the two of us.

Ally Brettnacher: So what year was that Mini?

Chris Jones: Ooh, it would've been 2016.

Maybe 2017. It might have been 2017 actually, yeah, 'cause it would've been after my last year of playing.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: All right. So yeah, you've been running for a decade. Less than 10 year then, yeah. Yeah, a decade. Here we are now. Yep. A decade of running. So and what's your wife's name?

Chris Jones: Fiona.

Ally Brettnacher: Fiona. Yeah. Oh, what a pretty name.

Yeah. Did you meet in college?

Chris Jones: No, we met in, uh, sixth grade actually. So we, we grew up together. Our, both of our older siblings swam together. So we were in class together in sixth grade, and we dated or whatever that was like then. Um, and then our siblings swam, and so we were always at, like, swim meets together, [00:14:00] and then we were kinda like friends through high school.

Um, funny enough, I mean, do you want, care if I share this story? She dated my best friend, um, who was my college roommate and then, like, best man at my wedding through, like, middle school. And then- That's hilarious ... and then after that she dated one of my other really good friends all the way through high school basically, and he's now the friend that I'm, like, starting a business with.

So they were both in our wedding. And that's the only two exes she had and then me, so it's like, yeah, we're, we're still all hanging out together.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. It's been, it's been good. That's so funny. My, my parents met when they were young, and my mom dated my dad's cousin first. Oh, yeah? And he, you know, they always tell that story.

Yeah. It's just so funny to think about, 'cause you're like, "Oh, yeah, I guess so." Yeah. Yeah, wh- when did you finally realize, okay, we kinda like like each other?

Chris Jones: Um, I don't know. I mean, I think we started dating our senior year of high school. Okay. And then we both ended up going to UND. It wasn't necessarily, like, planned, and then so we, like, went to college together, and then, yeah, I don't know, we were dating for, like, six years, seven years by the time we ended up like, "Oh, yeah, let's get married I guess."

Like, obviously this makes sense. Like, it just was- Yeah ...

Ally Brettnacher: natural. So [00:15:00] wait, she dated one of your good friends all through high school though, so how did you end up, like, starting to date her? Were you like, "Hey, dude, is this okay?"

Chris Jones: I, yeah, I don't know. It just hap- it just happened. I think it was just kind of like a known thing that, like- She liked me.

I liked her the whole time Yeah. So it's like- Maybe kind of off and

Ally Brettnacher: on. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny. And did you run the whole race together? Did you keep up with Fiona- Yeah ... at that race and you finished together? Yes.

Chris Jones: Yeah, I think she finished a little bit ahead of me 'cause I was struggling- She was dying

for the last mile or so when she- Yeah ... decided that it was- she was gonna take off. It was also, yeah, that it was, like, really cold and wet, and so-

Ally Brettnacher: Ooh ...

Chris Jones: we, um, I remember afterwards we didn't even stay for any of the, like, after-

Ally Brettnacher: Yes, I remember that year ...

Chris Jones: after race stuff, and we just walked to the car, and it was, like, the most miserable, painful walk ever just being cold

Ally Brettnacher: and wet.

What a- that's a hard first half marathon too-

Chris Jones: Yeah, I don't know why I kept running

Ally Brettnacher: after that- ... to have that- those weather conditions ... to be honest. Yeah, right. So that's was my next question is, like, how did you feel at the finish? Like, "Oh, cool. Like, let's l- I mean, let's do that again." Or how long did it take you to be like...

Chris Jones: Yeah, I think I've always been, like, naturally drawn to, like, hard things. And so- Mm ... I think the fact that it was like I'm not used to being physically [00:16:00] challenged that much. Like, I'd been an athlete my whole life, and so, like, athletics came pretty- Mm ... natural to me. Um, and so I thought it was just- I think it was just, like, a cool push to like, "Oh, that was hard.

Let's see what's next." I don't even know. I think I didn't do a marathon until couple years later, and I've only officially run one marathon, which is crazy to think about. I've done a number of them in training and in- Sure. ... during ultras, but like- ... I think my marathon PR happened during, like, a 50K or a 50-mile run- That's wild

which is kind of- kind of funny to think 'cause- Right, crazy to

Ally Brettnacher: think

Chris Jones: about ... first marathon I did was just, like, wow, just I did it again with a friend. Um- Okay ... we just did it to do it, not necessarily trained super hard or pushed- Yeah ... pace or anything. Yeah, and then after we got done, I remember people saying to me, which was- kind of funny.

It was like, "Oh, it looked like you could have kept going." Like, "That didn't seem that hard for you." And then, I don't know if that got in my head, but I was like, "Oh, what's, what's 50 miles look like?" Like and so same friend- Wow ... yeah, same and another friend- That's wild ... to sign up for a 50-miler, and then same thing after that race.

It was like, I mean, I definitely felt worse after the 50-miler. But I kind of had the same realization [00:17:00] of like, "Oh, that was doable. I finished it, and I'm still walking- ... and alive, so let's see what 100 miles looks like." And

Ally Brettnacher: so- Get out of town. Yeah. So you didn't do a 50K before you did 50 miles?

Chris Jones: Nope. I did in training, I guess.

Does that count?

Ally Brettnacher: Well, yeah. Well, sort of. That's nuts.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: What was your first marathon? Which race did you do?

Chris Jones: Monumental.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Chris Jones: Yep. Only one I've done.

Ally Brettnacher: And then you're like, 50 miles. Did you know that there was a 50K option, or did you just-

Chris Jones: Not... I

Ally Brettnacher: mean It's like when you don't know anything about running- Yeah, I mean-

it's like whatever your friend says, you're like, "Okay."

Chris Jones: Yeah. I think I knew there was 50Ks. I think at the time it was like, I don't know if the, at the time, the full MO was probably just starting, so that- Uh-huh ... wasn't really, like, on my radar. And then we just wanted to do it somewhere, like, fun, so we did one in Northern Michigan.

I don't even think they do the race anymore. It's called The Lighthouse 100. They had a 100-mile option and a 50-mile option. Okay. And it was point to point near, um, like, Traverse City and finishes up near-

Ally Brettnacher: That's hilly up

Chris Jones: there ... uh, Petoskey, which is- Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, it's so pretty. I love it.

Chris Jones: Yeah, there's some, like, rolling hills, which we did not [00:18:00] realize.

Initially it was pretty flat, and then it got into some hills. And we joke, my, my wife and then my good friend Joe, um, were crewing us, and there was a point where we remember they told us, "Oh, this is the last, this is the last of the hills," 'cause they had already driven ahead. They were wrong. They, they're like, "Oh, we forgot about that last one"-

which is, like, the biggest one of the whole race, so that was funny. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Gosh. Yeah, I did a Ragnar out there. Yeah. And my leg was super hilly. I mean, for me. Yeah. Like, running around here where it's very flat. Yeah, that

Chris Jones: was mostly along the coast. I think it was pretty flat, but there was definitely some sections that were-

Ally Brettnacher: Right

not. Where you're like, yeah. But a beautiful place to run though. It was

Chris Jones: great. It was a great place to do it, but it was raining.

Ally Brettnacher: Was it all on roads?

Chris Jones: Yeah, it was all paved.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yep. I was gonna, yeah, assume that. And then so when you told Fiona, "Hey, I'm gonna sign up. I'm gonna do 50 miles," what was her reaction to that?

Chris Jones: She, I don't think she was super thrilled initially. 'Cause I think, I'm trying to remember how old our daughter was at the time. Like, she was pretty young. Like, probably- Okay. 'Cause

Ally Brettnacher: you were a dad at that point.

Chris Jones: Yeah, she would've been maybe- E- not even a year at that point, I think, when we did it. Mm. So I mean, [00:19:00] she was carrying a young child around-

and was like, "This is ridiculous. What are we doing?" Um, but no, I mean, she was exci- I think she was, like, initially a little bit, like, "What are we doing?" And then I think having witnessed it and seen it, I think she was pretty into it. She has a lot of fun crewing now, I think-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ...

Chris Jones: now that we've done it a

Ally Brettnacher: couple times.

It's hard. Young- having young kids and being into endurance sports is very hard. Yeah,

Chris Jones: it's not

Ally Brettnacher: easy. It is not for the faint of heart, and I wanna do every race there is- Yeah ... but I can't because I have to... Not have to. I get to be a mom to these- Right ... two girls, but I can't wait for them to be able to experience more with me if they want to.

Chris Jones: Yeah. '

Ally Brettnacher: Cause that, then that gets really fun.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Okay, and then when did you run your 100 miles?

Chris Jones: So I did the Indiana Trail 100 up in northern Indiana. Okay, the IT 100

Ally Brettnacher: is what they call that. Yeah. Yeah.

Chris Jones: Yeah, so it would've been, yeah, 2022, I think. Um, yeah, it was great. I mean, it was an awesome first 100.

I recommended it to now a number of people who... 'Cause a lot of people, and I was the same way, I looked at 100-mile races and I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna go out and, like, run in the mountains in Colorado." "I'm gonna go out to, like-" Yeah ... Appalachian Trail- Yeah ... or, like, do something, like, [00:20:00] really big- Really cool

and really cool.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Um, which sounds great, but it's also logistically really challenging. Mm-hmm. And especially living in Indiana, training for that is So challenging because you can't get any elevation really- Right ... unless you are on the StairStepper or- Yeah ... on the incline on the treadmill.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: So I recommend Indiana Trail to a lot of people as, like, an intro to trail running because it's, it's pretty hill- I mean, it's got some rolling hills.

Mm-hmm. It's pretty, pretty challenging, but it's very runnable. But you get the, like, trail experience, and it's definitely hard. But it's also super well-organized. Yeah. So they have, like... I, I think they're probably pretty well-known for their aid stations. They have really fun, energetic aid stations with, like, hot, cooked meals.

Ugh. Um, tons of different food options. All the volunteers are super helpful. All the runners are super great. Um, I remember for that one I had kind of messed up the back of my knee, and so I ended up walking the last, like, 20 miles or so. Oh my gosh. And there was a guy that- That's so hard ... I had just met out on the trail who stuck with me for the last 20 miles and made sure I finished it.

[00:21:00] Um-

Ally Brettnacher: Wow.

Chris Jones: Yeah, it was pretty, pretty neat that he was just, like, willing to just sacrifice his time and was just like, "Yeah, I'll just..." He's like, "I'm not in any hurry. Whatever time you wanna finish in, we'll finish in." So I was like, "Okay, cool."

Ally Brettnacher: That's so great. Yeah. That's like Bob Radewicz says. There's, I have, I don't have anything else to do today.

Chris Jones: Yeah, I'll just, just run. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: We'll just, we'll just do, be out here till we need to be. Yeah. Yeah. That's really, that's funny. Okay, 100 miles. That race has multiple distances. And is it also- Yeah ... is it a Western States qualifier?

Chris Jones: Yes, it is.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Chris Jones: Yeah, it is. I think they actually... So they used to do a 50, 75, and 100 mile.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Chris Jones: I think they got rid of the 75 and they added 150 mile option now, so they actually have, like, a- What? ... even longer race up there, so that's kinda cool. I've not gotten that far into the

Ally Brettnacher: miles. Okay, yeah. It's like, ooh, that's... Yeah, it's wild to think about. You know, running a marathon and then feeling like you could do more.

I feel a lot of people can't quite get over that mental block-

Chris Jones: Yeah ...

Ally Brettnacher: of thinking that's possible. But then I always argue, I'm like, "Well, you went from a half to running a [00:22:00] marathon." To a full double, yeah. And the way you feel at the finish line of the half isn't the, you know, that's just now how it works.

You don't- Yeah ... you race different- That's not how you're gonna feel halfway

Chris Jones: through a marathon,

Ally Brettnacher: yeah. Yeah, you race differently. Yeah. It's not, it's, it's so different. And so yeah, I, I never thought I would run an ultramarathon, and then, you know, here we are. So-

Chris Jones: Well,

Ally Brettnacher: welcome

Chris Jones: to the ultra world. Yeah. You're gonna probably do 50 miles and 100

Ally Brettnacher: miles real soon.

Right. Well, it feels very weird because it's, I told people this, and they were like, "You can't think like this." I'm like, I don't feel like a real ultramarathoner because there is so many of these, like- Yeah ... incredible races out there that now go up to, like, you know, over-

Chris Jones: Like 300 miles is what I'm

Ally Brettnacher: saying, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's just insane. But there's always gonna be another level- Yeah ... no matter what. So I loved the FOMO. Yeah. And for people who aren't local, it's a point-to-point-

Chris Jones: Yeah ...

Ally Brettnacher: 50K that goes through our int- like, Central Indiana, essentially, on our- Right ... Lake to Rail Trail. So it was a perfect intro for me.

Um, did y- and you ran this year.

Chris Jones: Yep, I ran this year Yeah This was the second year I did it, so

Ally Brettnacher: I've done two in a row now. Yeah, I feel like I did, I did not see you there, I don't

Chris Jones: think. No, yeah, I don't, I didn't feel very good at the end of it. I, um I had a, [00:23:00] a moment of puking five miles out from the finish, and then kind of struggled at the end.

But it just got really hot, and I just- Felt really bad ... I was trying to actually run it kind of fast, which I've not tried to truly, like, race a race- Yeah ... in a long time. Yeah. And it was a bad idea. I was not, I was not ready for it. Um, it was a fun try, but yeah, it was

Ally Brettnacher: good. Yeah. Did- were you running with anyone else?

Chris Jones: I ran, yeah, I ran with, um, Ally and Matt, who are friends from Brownsburg area. Okay. Um, and then Ally dropped me with five miles to go and went on and just crushed it. She's like- Yeah, she's great.

Ally Brettnacher: Well, I'm sure you were like, "Please go." Yeah. Like I, yeah, I mean, I can't imagine. Did you just have one puking?

Chris Jones: Yeah, just one. Just, like, a li- very little, just, like, in my mouth, basically spit up. Ugh. But then it was like, I don't know, if you're a runner, you kind of know, it kind of... You kind of reach a point where, like, I can run a certain speed, but if I go over that speed, like, instant nausea. So I kind of just go, like, walk-run to the finish.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah

Chris Jones: And if I just kept it low enough, I was fine. Yeah. What- But it was like anything I touched was not good ...

Ally Brettnacher: what were you trying to race it in? Like, what was the time?

Chris Jones: I was trying to go under four, [00:24:00] ultimately, I was trying to go under four hours. I did not, I, when I got to the start line, I was kind of like, "That's pretty unrealistic for where my training has been."

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: So I started off a little bit slower, and then I was like, "Ah, the last, like, 10 miles or so, I'll push and see where I'm at." Mm-hmm. And just didn't... I think a combination of, like, heat and just not fully prepared for it just got me the- Yeah ... odd ones.

Ally Brettnacher: Hey, you still did it.

Chris Jones: Yeah, yeah. Which is amazing.

Finished it for sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean- Yeah, and then, like, I felt fine the next day, and it was like, I don't know. It's, that's running.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, that is, absolutely, that is running. At what point were you like, "Huh, I could start a race, my own race"?

Chris Jones: Yeah. It's always, uh, it's kind of been, I- I will say the Fulmo is probably the most, like, inspiring, like, race that I did for like, "Oh, I could, I would love to do something like this."

I think what TJ does with both the Fulmo and Prairie On Fire is, like, super engaging with the, like, community and making it a smaller, more intimate, like, group of people, um, and making the race day experience really, really high level was, like, something that I had missed at other races. Hmm. Like, the big race, [00:25:00] the, you do the Mini, you do the Monumental, like, race day experience is obviously incredible.

It's just a different world. But-

Ally Brettnacher: Yes ...

Chris Jones: um, going to a race that only has a couple hundred people at it, and it still feels like a really well put on, like, well-oiled machine is, like, a pretty cool experience. Mm-hmm. It's not just like your local 5K, you show up, run, grab your medal and banana, and, like, get out of there.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Um, so yeah, that was inspiring to me. And then I've also, I mean, I've always kind of wanted to do it just 'cause, I don't know, I think it's fun to challenge people and inspire them to do things. So- Yeah ... um, yes, we're doing the Big BO 50K. But we're also then offering a 5K, 10K, 25K. So with that, the idea was I wanted to host an ultra event, specifically on the west side, because that's where I'm from, and there's nothing like that out there.

Um, and there's just not a ton of ultra events in the, like, immediate Indianapolis area. Yeah. So I feel like there's kind of a, kind of a demand for it. You have to travel usually- Right, it's, it's been ex- ... pretty far to get to

Ally Brettnacher: it. I mean, the demand has been exploding for running, yeah.

Chris Jones: Yeah. And then so the distances, I [00:26:00] wanted to, I wanted to be able to, like, encourage people to do a little bit more.

So 5K, I mean, people, uh, everyone knows a 5K, like, if you're a runner, and it's a good entry point for people. Mm-hmm. So if you're new to running or if you're someone that has been running and you wanna bring a friend, like, inviting them to do a 5K is much more likely that they're gonna say yes- ... than say, like, "Hey, you wanna run 30 miles?"

Yeah. Or than, "You can do a 50K." Yeah, right. Um, so it's a good entry point. And then, like, 10K, there's always a gap between people who do a 5K and then are like, "Oh, I can't do a half." Like, that's a huge jump up. Right. And there's very few 10K races, I feel like, so they're kind of in demand. And actually, when I first floated the idea to some people, they were...

Uh, the first couple responses I got were, "Are you gonna have a 10K option?" I was like, "I didn't, I wasn't sure I was going to, but yeah, now that everyone's asking me- Right ... sure, let's do a 10K." Now that

Ally Brettnacher: that seems to be a

Chris Jones: request. A- and it made sense logically from, like, where my head was at of like, okay, yeah, that's, like, the next step up for people.

Mm-hmm. And it's, like, not quite a half marathon, so it's not as daunting. And then the 25K is slightly more than a half marathon. Yeah, I was trying to do the math. So it's, like, 15, 15 miles and some [00:27:00] change. Um, so again, for the people that do a half marathon, like, a lot of people, that's their distance PR.

They do half marathons, they train for them, and they do a half m- and, and that's all they do.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Um, 'cause then jumping up to full marathon again is like, that's doubling your distance. It sounds crazy. Right. It sounds so hard to do.

Ally Brettnacher: It feels really

Chris Jones: daunting, yeah. So it's like, oh, here's just a few more miles, and you'll g- hopefully get through that mental barrier of, like, 13.1, and you're always like, "Oh, I can keep going, and I feel fine."

Like- Yeah ... and then if you feel fine at 15 miles, how are you gonna feel at 20 miles? Right. How are you gonna feel at 26 miles? Yep. Um, so good, a good entry point. And then obviously the 50K, I think, is a awesome entry point for ultra running.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Um- Agreed ... a flat, paved trail with- Mostly shade in the fall is, like, a super accessible run for people that wanna do ultras.

And then I also wanted people to see ultra runners. Um, I think there's a lot of ultra specific events, so people sh- people who run 5Ks, 10Ks, halves, even full marathons, hear about these ultra events and they know- Yeah ... people have done them, but they've never [00:28:00] seen a race actually happen, and they've never- Very true

seen these athletes in person. And so I think there's a misconception that, like, "Oh, you're an ultra-marathoner. You must be in... You guys are crazy. You must run all the time." You must live in the woods. And then, yeah, be, yeah, be in, like, crazy shape. Right. Like, s- these super athletes are, like, super humans.

Like-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ...

Chris Jones: if you g- if, I mean, you can probably attest this at the full mar- like, it's just a bunch of regular people out there. Like, there's people- A bunch of regular people ... all ages, all sizes. Like-

Ally Brettnacher: It's amazing ...

Chris Jones: no one out there looks like they are some superhuman of an athlete. Like- Yeah ... everyone can do it.

I think it's just a matter of, like, believing that you can actually go and do it. So I think exposing people to, "Hey, here's some 50K runners," and like, "Look, they're just like-" Just like you ... "the people you see at Run Club." Yeah. Like, they're the same people. They just decided to go a little bit further, and they've been doing it.

Yeah. So I think it's a cool opportunity to showcase, like, hey, this is ultra running, and it's fun, and you can join it, too.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, and it's successful. That's such a good point. I didn't think about that- Yeah ... with the variety of distances that you have, that you're really marrying those two- Right ... very different groups of people.

I mean, [00:29:00] that's, and that's what the Full Mo did for me. It kind of l- made me, as a road runner, kind of just dabble because- Yeah ... it was paved, and it was- Yeah, it's an intro. It's a-

Chris Jones: You know?

Ally Brettnacher: It's a perfect intro to it. Yeah. And so I think, um, Big BO gonna be just that. Yeah. And it's on, it's on 10/10.

Chris Jones: Yes.

Yeah. Yep. October 10th.

Ally Brettnacher: Yep. Yeah, October 10th will be the- In- ... inaugural ...

Chris Jones: in Downtown Speedway, which is, we're excited about, too. It's gonna be hosted at Daredevil, so the start and finish is gonna be in the same location. So it's not point to point, which logistically for people makes it pretty accessible as well.

Plus Speedway's just a fun place to be.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: And so that'll be cool.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay, and so did you pick the location first and kind of get that all done?

Chris Jones: Yeah. And then- So we knew we wanted on the B&O Trail because- They had just completed between Hendricks County and Marion County. Mm-hmm. So there was a gap between, like, at Raceway Road, which is where, like, the Hendricks County line ends and then Speedway.

Okay. So they had just completed that maybe... It's maybe been a year and a half, two years now that it's fully complete, so now there's a full, like, I think all the way downtown. We're not using all the way downtown. I think it's, like, 16 or 17 miles- Jeez ... [00:30:00] of, like, completed trail. That's incredible. So it's pretty big.

Um, yeah. And so we knew we wanted to do... I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stick a race on it. Like, this will be awesome." Yeah. No one's doing... There's never a race on the B&O Trail. It'd be fun. Everyone on the west side uses it for training, like, let's host a run. Yeah. Um, and then it was from there, it was, like, narrowed down, like, where are the access points.

And if you're not from the west side, you might not realize, it's not like the Monon Trail where... I feel like the Monon Trail, you can get on it from... There's so many parks and access points and, like, go-to parking- Yeah, so many parking lots and- Like, you can- Yeah ... there's a lot of points along the way. The B&O Trail's a little more rural.

Um, and even in, like, Brownsburg, there's just a few, like, trail heads and parks that you can get onto it from. Mm-hmm. And then a couple neighborhoods connect to it, so it doesn't go through, like, the middle of town like the Monon- Gotcha ... does through Carmel and- Yeah ... stuff like that. So it's a little bit different of a trail.

Ally Brettnacher: So then logistically, are you having to really worry about, like, bathroom stuff to have? Yeah.

Marker

Ally Brettnacher: Quick break in my conversation with Chris to tell you this episode is brought to you by KILA, K-I-L-A. If you've ever been told by a doctor or a PT that you should be fitted for a custom orthotic or [00:31:00] you're already running around in some kind of insert, I want you to hear this because KILA is the upgrade.

Here's the thing about most orthotics. They are built for stability, not for running, so they end up feeling stiff and clunky in a soft, modern trainer. Every insole is 3D printed out of NanoPEBA, which is the same super shoe foam that you'd find in a carbon racing shoe, and it's molded specifically to your feet, so you get the support without losing that responsive, springy feel. And the process is so easy. No visit to a clinic required. I scanned my feet with my iPhone sitting on my treadmill in under five minutes. And they build everything from scratch out of their lab in California and ship it straight to your door. They even come with your name on it.

No clinic markup just a full custom insole at a fraction of what you'd pay walking into an office. Head to kilarun.com and use code ALLYB, A-L-L-Y-B, for $50 off your first order. That's K-I-L-A run.com, code ALLYB. Thank you, KILA, for supporting this podcast. Now back to Chris

So [00:32:00] then logistically, are you having to really worry about, like, bathroom stuff to have? Yeah.

Chris Jones: Yeah. We're kind of... Yes. At the start-finish area, we're for sure gonna have bathrooms, and then along the way we're just kind of, "Here's where your bathrooms are on the trail." Other than that, we're not dealing with putting anything up 'cause- Yeah

it's, yeah, for the first year, I think with limited number of participants and trying to figure out, like, what we would need to do- Yeah ... we're gonna kind of, like, play it by ear. So if you're listening- You're not gonna- ... and you're gonna be running the 50K- Yeah ... just know there's only a few bathrooms along the way- Yeah

and they're all just public bathrooms that you're gonna have to go off the trail to use. Um- Okay.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: But yes, that's, that's been a- This difficult point for sure- Right ... is like figuring out bathrooms, aid stations, all that stuff.

Ally Brettnacher: Well, I also think people underestimate the cost and like the financial piece of this.

Oh, yeah. Because you don't wanna- Yeah, these things don't make money ... you're not trying to pay to have a race or pay too much, because obviously you have to start somewhere to like- Yeah ... build a brand around the race and- Yeah ... have

Chris Jones: people. And we also initially, this year, I mean, if you look at our prices compared to others, like we intentionally made it super cheap.

The goal was just like, we just want people to do it. [00:33:00]

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: We are c- we were kinda just, we had no idea even how to necessarily like price it and like budget it, to be honest. We're kind of figuring it out as we go. Um, we definitely priced it too low if we were trying to make any money, but- ... that's not the point, so it doesn't really matter.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I mean, makes sense.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Makes sense. How many, um, how many spots are still left? Plenty?

Chris Jones: Yeah, plenty. We haven't capped it at anything. Okay. I think we have just over 60 signed up, um, across all the distances. Wow,

Ally Brettnacher: that's great.

Chris Jones: I would, m- I think m- almost half of them are 50K runners, which is-

Ally Brettnacher: Cool

Chris Jones: wi- which was wild to see. 'Cause when I- Yeah ... when we were like looking at it, we're like, "Oh, let's, hopefully we'll get a handful of people that want to do the 50K and it'll mostly be like 5K, 10K runners maybe, and like that'll kinda be the bulk of it." And it's been like the complete opposite. That's so fascinating.

And, and that might change in the next couple weeks as-

Ally Brettnacher: Right ... more people sign up last minute As people, I mean, I feel like when you're a 5K, 10K, you care a lot more maybe about the weather or, you know.

Chris Jones: Yeah. There's a lot of people that'll sign up much closer- That's- ... to the race. Right. If you're gonna sign up for the 50K, you've usually gotta have prepared-

at least for a few months.

Ally Brettnacher: Ideally- Yeah ... you should prepare.

Chris Jones: Yeah. [00:34:00]

Ally Brettnacher: Tell me about Stay Obsessed, because that is kind of what is starting, or it's like the launch point of this- brand you're building. So tell people what that is.

Chris Jones: Right. So Stay Obsessed started as my friend Joe and I have been friend- we grew up playing three V three soccer together and kinda off and on friends through life.

Basically, kind of all m- we've moved around and kinda always, like, come back to being friends. We played soccer together. We played f- like, touch football in his basement with people. We've played all sorts of random sports together, and just our whole relationship has basically been around, like, play and sports and, like, being active and healthy.

We've gone skiing together, done rock climbing together, like, all sorts of, like, random things. He crews me on ultra runs. Not a runner himself, but he just, like, hangs out. Um, so this whole idea started as, like, a way for us to engage with the obsessed individuals in their niche. Um, so for me, like, running.

[00:35:00] Um, this event is going to be our first, first event with the running community, and the idea is to find the people that are passionate about their activity and then connect them with like-minded people in their, like, hobby or activity, and then with others who are basically the same obsessed in pickleball or rock climbing or golf or whatever.

So eventually we wanna connect, we wanna connect, like, social media, like, leaders or, like, just local leaders in their sport or activity to help grow what they're doing- Those specific- ... and help put on- ... communities ... specific events and things like that. So, like, we've got, we've talked about doing, like, a pickleball event in the future 'cause Joe's really into pickleball right now.

Mm-hmm. So he, he has a lot of friends in that-

Ally Brettnacher: I was supposed to play this morning

Chris Jones: and then I backed out- ... in that world ... 'cause I can't breathe. Yeah. And so same thing, like, oh, we could do the same thing with yoga. We could do the same thing with- Right ... weightlifting. Like there's- Mm-hmm ... all sorts of people who are super passionate and into health and wellness and have their specific form of that.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Um-

Ally Brettnacher: Hyrox would be really good.

Chris Jones: Hyrox, yeah. '

Ally Brettnacher: Cause people are ex- getting super into that.

Chris Jones: Exactly. So the goal is, we initially [00:36:00] started as, like, we just liked the phrase "stay obsessed," um, and it just, we're like, "Oh, well, we can just, like, sell shirts. Like, this will be fun." And then it was like, well, maybe we wanna be more than that.

We wanna, like, connect people and, like, engage with people in person. Um, so it's more of a lifestyle-type brand of just getting people together, hosting big wellness and healthy lifestyle events for people to engage with.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Ugh, sounds awesome.

Chris Jones: Yeah. Should be fun.

Ally Brettnacher: It's right up my alley.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That's really cool.

So Stay Obsessed is the company behind Big Bow.

Chris Jones: Yes, exactly. Okay. Yeah, this is our soft launch. We're very, uh-

Ally Brettnacher: Soft launch.

Chris Jones: We're both very just like, "Yeah, we'll just see how it goes." And so- Great ... it's been fun to just kinda, like, figure it out. I've never... He's much more of an, he's an entrepreneur by trade, basically, so more up his alley, but he's got other stuff going on, too, and I'm obviously busy with coaching and rehab and-

Ally Brettnacher: Right

Chris Jones: everything. So this is kinda just our fun little side project that we get to kinda grow and just, like, have fun with as we see fit. [00:37:00] So the goal is not necessarily to Make it a big massive company by any means. If that happens, awesome, but it's more about let's just do stuff that we would want to engage with and-

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm

Chris Jones: do for fun and bring other people along for the ride.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That's great.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: And then you mentioned it, we haven't talked about your coaching yet. You're Running Coach Chris on Instagram.

Chris Jones: Yeah. Yeah. So like

Ally Brettnacher: the- How did you get that handle? That's pretty good.

Chris Jones: I don't know. Yeah. I, it's funny. I, um, I don't know how it came about.

I, I, when I did a, I worked a summer camp in high school out on, or in college, um, out on the East Coast. And- That

Ally Brettnacher: had to be a wild adventure ...

Chris Jones: it was very, it was a culture shock for sure. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was really cool, but it was like, wow, this is amazing. I didn't, I've never experienced East Coast life and it's very different.

Ally Brettnacher: Whew.

Chris Jones: Yeah. Um, in the Berkshire Mountains in Massachusetts. It was beautiful. Wow. And it was like classic sleepaway summer camp. Like, kids are there for like eight weeks. Oof. You get to know the same kids year after year, so it was really cool. Um,

Ally Brettnacher: but- That is really

Chris Jones: cool ... I went by, my name there was Chris Jones Soccer because I was a soccer counselor.

And so people just called me by like my full [00:38:00] name 'cause on the, my name tag it just said Chris Jones and then it said soccer underneath 'cause that was the activity area I worked in. That's

Ally Brettnacher: funny.

Chris Jones: And then my whole life I've also been, I've never been Chris. I've always been Chris Jones. Um, for whatever reason in high school people just referred to me as my full name.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: And then, so I don't know, Running Coach Chris just kinda fit that same bill of like, oh, people just call me Running Coach Chris. Yeah. Like, it's all just, that's what I do- Yeah ... and so that's what I am. Um, yeah, I think- I think people know me as Running Coach Chris, and then maybe learn that I'm a PT afterwards.

Ally Brettnacher: That was me.

Chris Jones: Um, which I'm now thinking back like, "Oh, man, I'm gonna create this Instagram." I should've been more outright that, "Hey, I'm a doctor of physical therapy- ... that also does run coaching." But the run coaching at the time was kind of a side thing. Yeah. Um, so yeah. So that's been... Yeah, that's how a, a lot of people find me, and then I think once they get to know me, they're like, "Oh, wait, you're a physical therapist."

And then that tends to be why people want to work with me, 'cause there's a lot of people who are like, "Oh, you can help me when stuff comes up- Yeah ... and not just, like, push, push, [00:39:00] push, and then get injured, and then I have to stop training- Yeah ... and go see a physical therapist." Yeah. So it's kind of the... I, I bill it as, like, a...

I'm kind of bridging the gap between, like, traditional therapy and performance side of things. Yeah. Because a lot of people get cleared from PT and then they go, "But I'm only running, like, two miles. That's not enough to train." Yeah. And so they need help building back up from basically zero to, "Can I train for- Yeah

a half marathon, a full marathon?" Yeah. Something like that.

Ally Brettnacher: Well, in theory, you can keep them honest too by prescribing them shorter, easier stuff to do.

Chris Jones: Yep.

Ally Brettnacher: I say in theory because we know how we runners are.

Chris Jones: Yep, yep.

Ally Brettnacher: But, you know, you know what to give somebody-

Chris Jones: Yeah ...

Ally Brettnacher: who is dealing with an injury- Right ... and how to coach them in a way that prevents them from further injuring themselves.

Right. So that is definitely a competitive edge.

Chris Jones: Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely different. The... I would say the way... I don't necessarily do... A lot of the athletes I work with probably don't follow a traditional, like, half marathon training plan. It's a lot of [00:40:00] adapting as we go. 'Cause for a lot of people it is like, "Hey, I'm battling this injury.

I just wanna get to the start line." Mm-hmm. So it's like, "Okay, let's get you to the start line." That's not gonna look like the same traditional progression. It's gonna be maybe a little less volume or a little less speed work, or, like, changing the way we do it week to week based on how you're feeling so we don't aggravate things.

Yeah. So it's a little bit... I, I mean, it's definitely more personal. This is why people seek out coaching in general, but it's much more like, "Hey, how are you feeling from a physical injury perspective?" Yeah. Versus, "Let's just keep pushing and go until your body fails."

Ally Brettnacher: Right.

Chris Jones: Which happens a lot.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yeah.

Happens a lot. Does Fiona still run, your wife?

Chris Jones: She is trying to get back into it. She runs off and on. Um-

Ally Brettnacher: I mean, three and five-year-old, I mean, that's just-

Chris Jones: Her running tends to take a backseat to my running 'cause I'm training for stuff, which is we're trying to change because she needs to get back into running herself.

Yeah. Like, wants to. Yeah. So, um, trying to, like, adapt our schedule. But, like, I mean, my running sometimes happens at 10 o'clock at night. But training for Prairie on Fire, that's, like-

Ally Brettnacher: [00:41:00] Yeah ...

Chris Jones: the goal is to train sometimes- Ooh, good segue ... late at night or really-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ...

Chris Jones: really early. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, we mentioned Prairie on Fire, and I always feel like th- the listeners of this show typically are local.

There's, like... It's, like, half and half, though.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: And so for people who don't know what Prairie on Fire is or what a backyard ultra is- Right ... will you just give a quick overview?

Chris Jones: Yeah. So Bac- Prairie on Fire is our local backyard ultra, and so you run 4.167 miles every hour on the hour until you can't go anymore.

So a lot of people, I think a lot of people- Like, it's so crazy ... are familiar with it now because-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ...

Chris Jones: BPN just did a big one and was, like, all over social media. And then the Last Sol Ultra just happened recently, so that was pretty popular on social media. So I think people have seen it now a lot more, like, in the spotlight.

It used to be a very, like- I don't know, kinda underground running thing. Right. I, I mean,

Ally Brettnacher: I didn't know

Chris Jones: about it till this podcast. You, you had to like know someone to know someone to like-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ...

Chris Jones: know what it was. Yeah. But yeah, it's, I mean, it's growing. It's gotten massive, and I think the appeal is it is truly just pushing your limits.

Yeah. So it is just, you just go until you cannot go. There's no finish line. Um, which is appealing to me as someone [00:42:00] who's done 100 miles and just wanna know- Yeah ... what else can I do? How much further can I go? Like, can I, how far can I go? So let's see.

Ally Brettnacher: And doing 100 miles, you've run in the dark, I would assume.

I don't- Yeah ... I can't remember how long it takes to do that, but it's a long time. Yeah.

Chris Jones: So I did, yeah, my 100-miler I did in over 24, I think it was 26 hours- Okay ... and something when I did it. Um, so Prayer in Fire is like the 4.16 for people to understand like why that silly distance- Yeah ... 'cause in 24 hours you hit 100 miles.

Yes. Yeah. So the goal is that basically you hit a milestone in time and distance at the same time.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Yes. You've run at night. How have you been practicing? Like you just said, "Sometimes I run at 10:00 PM at night." Yeah. So are you doing, you're doing some of that just to like assimilate to the times- Yeah

that you'll just be running at all hours?

Chris Jones: It definitely is like, uh, as, I mean, the running for that long is challenging. For me, last year I remember the most challenging part was being out at night and just, I, I don't know. I mean, it's super dark and- Mm-hmm ... quiet and like lonely. And so being able to run in that timeframe has been something I've wanted to practice.

So I've been doing a lot of [00:43:00] like two or three-hour runs starting at like 10:00 in the evening- Geez ... or like really early in the morning. So trying to run in those like odd hours of the day. Yeah. And get used to just like being able to do it. And then also it's good training 'cause like a lot of people will get up early and like eat well, get their miles in, and it's like perfect environment for training.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah,

Chris Jones: you

Ally Brettnacher: can control the stuff and the- And

Chris Jones: if you wake up and go through an entire workday, deal with kids, go, I mean, if you have toddlers, like get through- Yeah ... bedtime routine and like- Ugh,

Ally Brettnacher: which is a marathon literally ...

Chris Jones: maybe eat dinner at a reasonable time, maybe not. Yeah. And so you're kind of at like a, a disadvantage for like training.

Yeah. But then to be able to go, okay, but I'm still gonna go run at 11:00- Wow ... is really challenging mentally to go and like start at that time. Yeah. And then it, it's a good- I don't know, like mental win for me of like, okay, I went, I had this whole day. I was on my feet all day long. My body's pretty tired and sore, so now training, we're now running for three hours.

In my mind is like this is pushing my performance a lot more than- Mm-hmm ... if I [00:44:00] woke up and was fresh and feeling good. Yeah. So it's like a- Yeah ... a little bit of an advantage. That's a good way

Ally Brettnacher: to look at it. Um, where do you do those runs?

Chris Jones: In my neighborhood. Okay. I'm lucky that I live near... I mean, I live in a pretty quiet neighborhood in Avon.

Yeah. And then I also live near a big park, so I can run around the park.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Although in the summer when it's muggy, the bugs are terrible, so- Ooh ... I just don't... There's a- Yeah ... there's a big lake down there, so I just don't go near it at

Ally Brettnacher: night-

Chris Jones: I,

Ally Brettnacher: that would sound awful ... '

Chris Jones: cause

Ally Brettnacher: it gets really gross. Well, you're lucky you're a guy.

That's, it's nice- That's true, yeah ... 'cause you probably feel a lot safer. I could never do that. Right. And, and I was asking you that too thinking obviously you and I share a love of a treadmill.

Chris Jones: Yep.

Ally Brettnacher: But treadmill running is not gonna give... I mean, you're looking for being outside- Yeah ... being at night, like that kind of environment.

But yeah.

Chris Jones: Last year I did, I did use the treadmill as my... I would do, I lived in a different neighborhood at the time, and there was not really like a... I could have run in my neighborhood probably. It wasn't the best neighborhood. Um, but the treadmill was Just my choice at the time. Yeah. And it was helpful, but you're running without a headlamp, and you're running in, like, full bright lights, and- Yeah

at, [00:45:00] when I was training, I would, like, I could throw on Netflix or something or like- Yeah, right, right ... something to kind of distract myself. Um, so yeah, doing it off the treadmill is more realistic- Yeah ... and then, yeah, headlamp makes a big difference 'cause I don't know if other people have this problem, but, like, the, the haze of the headlamp sometimes makes me feel a little disoriented or like your depth perception- Well, like these lights-

feels off ... that

Ally Brettnacher: we have in this room, like- Yeah ... after a while you're like, "Where am I?"

Chris Jones: Yeah. Yeah. So practicing the headlamp- Yeah ... 'cause I remember that getting to me, like, mentally last year. I would try to turn it off and run sometimes, but then it was also hard to see, so- Yeah ... practicing with a headlamp, um, has been helpful to, like, just get used to that.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Do you wear a vest too or just the headlamp?

Chris Jones: Uh, when I run in the neighborhood at night, I don't wear a vest. Yeah, just the- But it's, there's no cars or anything really.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Okay. And then you've also done, what was the trail run that's, like, the nighttime one that's around here?

Chris Jones: Yeah, the, the Eagle Creek does the night, they do a night run.

They do a winter and a summer-

Ally Brettnacher: Night ru-

Chris Jones: Oh ... summer night trail run and winter night.

Ally Brettnacher: Wow.

Chris Jones: Winter trail, frosty maybe is what they call it.

Ally Brettnacher: Oh, yeah. I can't remember.

Chris Jones: There's [00:46:00] a couple different ones.

Ally Brettnacher: WTF.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, like

Chris Jones: That might be the daytime one, but they do a nighttime one in the winter too.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. Yeah. Wow.

That's so interesting.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: What time does that race start?

Chris Jones: The summer one is, like, a, I think it's, like, a 9:00 or 9:30 start 'cause it's in, like, I don't know, like, June or July, so it's like- Right, and you're waiting for it to be dark ... yeah, you just got, it has to be dark. Yeah. Uh, yeah, the winter one I think is a, a more reasonable, like, 6:00 when it starts to get dark in the winter.

But yeah, the winter one's fun because there's been years that it's been warm and comfortable. There's been years that it's snow on the ground. Yeah. There's been years it's icy, years that it's rainy. Like, you never know what the conditions are gonna be like in January, February, so- Yeah ... it's, it's a fun one to just, like, see what the trails are gonna be like that year.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, that's nuts. I've only done a couple trail runs. The Holiday Park here in town does a nice, like, five-miler- Oh, yeah ... that I really, it, it was nice to kind of almost, like, another intro to trail running. Yeah. Like, like how the FOMO is to intro- Right ... to, to an ultra. Um- But I don't know. I, I, at nighttime I would just fall.

I It's- I'm so

Chris Jones: worried ... I, there's been multiple year- I remember [00:47:00] la- the last time I did it actually, a lot of people are ill prepared for the night running. Like, you need a really, you need a pretty good headlamp and you've gotta have practice running at night probably, especially on the trails, 'cause-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah

Chris Jones: it's not the same. And you're not gonna, if you're going out there expecting to run the same pace that you run in the day, like-

Ally Brettnacher: Oh ...

Chris Jones: probably gonna be a lot slower. Yeah. So, um, I remember someone was running behind me because their headlamp was, I think they had, like, one of the chest lamps. Yeah. And it wasn't very bright.

And he s- he even said to me that he's g- he's like, "I'm gonna stay close 'cause I c- I can see better with your light." And there's sections of the trail where it gets pretty, like, twisty and turn-y- Oof ... and, like, narrow.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: And I kind of, like, I mean, I, again, I was running it for, like, time, so I was like, "Okay, just stay close."

Yeah. Um, I heard him fall, though. Oh. And it was like, "Oh, no." Like, I was like, "Oh, man, are you okay?" He's like, "Yeah, I'm just gonna, like, I'm gonna slow down. You go ahead." Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: I

Chris Jones: was like, "Okay."

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Chris Jones: But yeah, I mean, there's definitely, and there's people out there who are doing it in, in road shoes, which makes a difference on the trail.

If you've ever run on trails- Yeah ... with road shoes versus trail shoes- I

Ally Brettnacher: have ...

Chris Jones: big difference. Um, especially if it's any amount of wet.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Um, so I remember being out there and watching a bunch of [00:48:00] traditional road runners try to run on the trails, and you're like, "Yeah, you're not gonna, you're not gonna make it very far."

Ally Brettnacher: Just gonna slip and fall. Yeah. So you did Prairie last year?

Chris Jones: Yeah, did Prairie last year.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. Was that your first time?

Chris Jones: That was my first time doing Prairie, yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. And how far did you go? I

Chris Jones: got-

Ally Brettnacher: How many, how many yards is what

Chris Jones: they say? 7- 17 yards.

Ally Brettnacher: 17.

Chris Jones: Yeah, which was- That's

Ally Brettnacher: a lot.

Chris Jones: Yeah. It was a lot and it wasn't qui- it, it was-

Ally Brettnacher: What is the math on that?

Chris Jones: 70-something. Okay. 17. 71, 72, something like that.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Chris Jones: Um-

Ally Brettnacher: Over

Chris Jones: 100K. Yeah. It was, it was good. I, um, I was sick leading up to Prairie last year.

Ally Brettnacher: Mm.

Chris Jones: And have, like, I get asthma when I get sick, so I had this, like, lingering cough that had mostly gotten better, but then once the night loop started, it, like, kicked back up and I reached a point where I was like, "Eh," like I could, like, feel, like, pressure in, like, my abdomen and groin every single time I coughed, and was like, "All right, this is just, like, reaching a point of, like, I don't think it's worth it."

Um- Yeah ... so it was a little disappointing 'cause, like, physically, like, my legs and, like, mentally I felt like I could have gone further.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: But kind of just [00:49:00] from, like, a, I don't know, breathing and potential hernia prevention- Prevention. ... standpoint, I was like, "I don't- Try, yeah ... I don't think I wanna push it."

So sometimes I have a thing, I have a, 'cause I'm a physical therapist, I have, like, a bit of a medical background, and I almost, it's like knowing too much sometimes- Yeah ... can be difficult 'cause it, like, puts me in a position where like I know if I keep going, this is what I could do. Like, I

Ally Brettnacher: could cause this to happen.

Yeah.

Chris Jones: Yeah. Which sometimes I try to block out 'cause I know it's like- uh, the goal is to, like, push my limits. Yeah. So I try to ignore some of that. Yeah. Uh, but underlying I'm always like, "Uh, I don't wanna do anything to mess me up longterm."

Ally Brettnacher: Right.

Chris Jones: So-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. That

Chris Jones: makes sense ... which is a real concern, but it's, like, small.

Ally Brettnacher: Right. So people say don't set a distance goal.

Chris Jones: Yes. I agree

Ally Brettnacher: 100,000%. So now, well, I mean, I was gonna ask you if you have one.

Chris Jones: I always just say I see what I can do beyond 100 miles.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Chris Jones: Um-

Ally Brettnacher: So the ba- like, so let's call that, like, the baseline- Yeah ... is 100 miles for you. You wanna make sure you get- Yeah ... that distance at least.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: And then who knows?

Chris Jones: And then see what I can do. I would love to see sunset on the second day. [00:50:00] That'd be cool.

Ally Brettnacher: That would be cool.

Chris Jones: But yeah, again, it's like the goal, like, I mean, set a farfetched goal and, like, and it is really easy when you're out there to start telling yourself, like, "Oh, if I just do two more loops, that'll get me to, like- 15 laps Right Like, that's a good number to stop at.

Yeah. So it's really easy to kinda like count down and- Start bargaining with yourself. Yeah. Yeah. It's, especially in the middle of the night when you're like, "Man, have we still got four, five, six hours t- till sunrise?"

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: It can be really easy to go, "I'd rather just go lay down."

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: And so, yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Who's in your tent?

Chris Jones: Uh, Fiona will be there, so my wife, and then my friend Joe will be there for... I'm not sure how long he's gonna be there. He might be there through the night, um, assuming I make it through the night.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Um, and then one of my other friends, Brendan, both my wife's exes actually, so my two best friends, so will- So

Ally Brettnacher: funny

Chris Jones: will be there to help out. Um, and then sometimes my parents will come out for a little bit and bring the kids 'cause they're watching the kids. Um, they usually just come... They don't do much help. They just kinda hang out. They just come and see you. Yeah, come and hang out and support. Yeah. Yeah, so.

Ally Brettnacher: Well, it's nice to have...

I [00:51:00] love having my girls come out and see what I'm doing.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: It's so great to model that for them, and then it just gives me, like, that extra burst of energy, too, to- Yeah ... and motivation.

Chris Jones: I've joked with people. I think I've, uh... I, I probably should do some more 5Ks and stuff like that with my kids there because- Yeah

my daughter, my oldest daughter, um, a couple years ago, she would play ultra-marathon in the house. Stop it. And she would tell me that she's... She would, she would just run laps around our kitchen, and she would, "Oh, I'm just, I'm gonna be right back. I'm just gonna go run like, um, 10 or 20 or 100 miles or something," and that was just normal for her.

Ally Brettnacher: That's adorable.

Chris Jones: And then she also asked every single... So she, we, like, sign up for, like, the local Turkey Trot- Yeah ... run in Avon sometimes. Um, and, or sh- there was a kids race at the Back Your Badge that she wanted to do.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Chris Jones: And she will ask, "Do we need to pack a bunch of snacks? Like, do we need to bring a tent for this race?

Oh, is it gonna be an overnight?" That- No, that's not normal, Sophie. That's, that's not what a normal running race looks like. Normally they're much shorter than that, and you're kind of done in a reasonable amount of time.

Ally Brettnacher: So. That is so cool. I [00:52:00] mean, to see some of that stuff through the eyes of a kid is pretty cool.

Yeah. Where they, you know, ask those questions and-

Chris Jones: Yeah, just normalizing it for her- Right ... which I think is cool in one sense, but also, like, hmm, you have- Maybe, maybe we start with like-

Ally Brettnacher: Let's start small ... do a 5K You can do a mile or- Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The, um, the Indy Mini has the Rookie Run- Yeah ... which my girls have done, and they do it by age, and it's, like, meters.

So they don't even run a mile, even the older ones.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: And so that's really fun to give them just- Yeah ... kind of that environment.

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: For sure. And then my youngg- or my oldest has done a 5K. So now it's like, "My dad's goal," he's, my dad is 70, his goal is to run a half marathon with Sydney. Wow.

Chris Jones: And I

Ally Brettnacher: was like, "Okay, well, I better, like, start getting her trained up- Yeah.

'cause, uh"

Chris Jones: Better hurry. "

Ally Brettnacher: I don't know," um, which we like to joke about, but it is also kind of sad. Um, but yeah, I think your girls are gonna love being a part of the sport, hopefully.

Chris Jones: Yeah, yeah, it's been fun to see. I mean, it's... I'm a little With young athlete, I was, again, from a physical therapy standpoint-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah

Chris Jones: pushing young athletes, especially in distance running, can be really harmful. So [00:53:00] making sure that it's done in a way that's, like, fun and enjoyable- Yes ... and safe still, um- Yes,

Ally Brettnacher: fully agree.

Chris Jones: But yeah, it should be exciting to see what they do.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. Is your oldest playing soccer yet?

Chris Jones: She just started this year.

Okay. It's her first year. I was

Ally Brettnacher: gonna guess. Five's the year.

Chris Jones: Yep, and so I'm coaching, so- Excellent ... that's been fun to... I've coached soccer in the past- ... but it's been, like, 12, 13, 14-year-olds, and then I've, like, coached college age as a grad assistant, so learning what we can do with- Slightly

Ally Brettnacher: different. Just slightly different, but

Chris Jones: yeah

with a five and six-year-old is very different, but it's- Right ... just a lot of, like, "Can you kick the ball once today during the game?" And stuff

Ally Brettnacher: like that. Right, or like- So it's- ... do you know which goal you're going to? Can you run

Chris Jones: in the right direction? Yeah, that's- Can you dribble it? Forward like that- Yeah

Ally Brettnacher: it's, it's fun Can you not touch it- It's fun ... with your hands?

Chris Jones: Yeah. Yeah, ex- yeah. Don't pick it up.

Ally Brettnacher: Right. It's so funny. My, um, this is my, uh, my youngest daughter's second year. Yeah. And so it's, it's fun to watch them, but I had to step in and coach for a half for her, and I'm like, "Man, this is..." Like, my husband does it too.

Yeah. He loves it, but I'm like, "I do not have the patience for this."

Chris Jones: It is tough. For sure tough.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's great. Okay, [00:54:00] you mentioned snacks. One of my favorite things to talk about with ultra runners in particular is- ... what you like to eat when you're doing these really long distances. So tell people what's some of your favorite, I mean, the actual fuel stuff- Yeah

and then, like, the hot meal stuff you were referring to earlier.

Chris Jones: I'm a big fan of real food for most of it. I've tried, like, gels and the liquid stuff. Doesn't usually settle well for me. So for Prairie and Fire specifically, I like, and I learned this at the Indiana Trail 100 actually, mashed potatoes with broth.

So- Ooh, yum ... warm and then mix it together to where it's, like, drinkable. It becomes really easy to consume at night, and you get carbs, sodium, and liquid, like, all in one. So I think it's a great, like-

Ally Brettnacher: That sounds incredible ...

Chris Jones: if you can't, if you can't have anything, that's the one go-to 'cause you'll get a little bit of everything.

Um-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ...

Chris Jones: I like, and I think I've turned a couple people onto this now, um, just white rice, soy sauce, and pineapple.

Ally Brettnacher: Ooh.

Chris Jones: Which is a good, like, sweet, salty, and you get all the carbs, and it's good cold- Yeah ... still. Right. So, [00:55:00] like, which during ultra running is sometimes- Important ... challenging- Yeah ... to, like, get a hot meal.

And then I do other, I do, like, fig bars. I do candy of all sorts, whatever I'm craving at the time. So, um, sometimes it's the, I don't know, the Nerds clusters that everyone likes. Oh, yeah. Those are

Ally Brettnacher: good.

Chris Jones: Or, like, Snickers always seem to, like, taste good. I'm a big, like, sweet/salty fan. Okay. So stuff like that always, like, tastes good mid-run.

Um- Yeah ... pretzels, M&Ms, all that kind of stuff.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. So you have your, all your go-tos fully stocked.

Chris Jones: All of it, yep.

Ally Brettnacher: How do you ma- will you tr- do the mashed potato stuff for Prairie?

Chris Jones: Mm-hmm, yep.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay.

Chris Jones: Just cold. Or sometimes I'll bring a thermos. I'll bring a- Okay, yeah ... thermos with the broth- A thermos would keep it kind of warm

to, like, warm it up. Yeah. Mashed potato's usually cold, but it's, I don't know. It's just, it is what it is when you're out there. Right. Whatever.

Ally Brettnacher: You just gotta take what you can get. You're like, "I will-" Like, you're not- "... give me the food."

Chris Jones: Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: Whatever. And then what do you hydrate with? Usually just water, or you-

Chris Jones: Most- yeah, I have water, and then, so I've played around with doing salt in different ways 'cause-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah

Chris Jones: that's an important piece of the [00:56:00] endurance world is, like, can you hydrate well and then get your electrolytes in?

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: I got sick of the salty-tasting water at times. It was, like, really hard to consume enough of it to make- Yeah ... a difference. So I, and then I, so then I transitioned to like, oh, I'll just try, like, the chewable, like, salt tabs.

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm.

Chris Jones: Could not... When I'm, when you get, like, really dry mouth and you try to eat one of those- They just don't taste- Really

Ally Brettnacher: difficult ... they just don't taste good to me at all.

Chris Jones: Yeah, it was not good. And then, so now I just use the literal, like, capsule form. Yeah, I like

Ally Brettnacher: those. Mm-hmm.

Chris Jones: And I just take those.

Every loop I think I take, like, I mean, depending. If it's, like, really hot I'll take more, but I take at least two of those every single time, and then bring some with me if I feel like I need more.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: But then I don't have to think about it.

Ally Brettnacher: Okay. What is your favorite running song and/or mantra?

Chris Jones: So I knew you were gonna ask this question.

And I thought so hard about this. I thought, like, man, what do, what's the song that I always turn on? And I don't have one, which is crazy. But I realize I have, like, playlists or artists of songs that I will turn on that immediately bring me back [00:57:00] to, like, a place or a specific race or a training time. So I think back to, like, there's certain bands that I listened to all the time when we lived in Washington.

And so if I throw on, if I'm in a tough spot, like, during the run, I'll throw on those bands and I can immediately, like, picture myself running around the park or, like, running along the water in Washington. I have a similar playlist that I really got into ultrarunning when I did a clinical rotation for PT school in Florida.

So I was in Naples in the summer, which was-

Ally Brettnacher: Ooh ...

Chris Jones: a terrible time to decide I'm gonna try to run really far.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Um, but there's a playlist that I go back, that I created when I was there that I will always go back to, especially in the winter, 'cause it immediately brings me back to, like, hot, humid- Yeah

beach running.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Um, so I do that a lot, which I think is maybe my answer to the question of my go-to song is, like- Yeah ... I will just pick a time that I want to, like, mentally bring myself back to and then throw that on and just kind of, like- Yeah ... be able to reset mentally.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. What's an example of, of a song that's on a playlist?[00:58:00]

Chris Jones: Oh, man. Um, so the one from Florida, there's a lot of, like, Kygo or- Yeah ... like, tropical house kind of- I like

Ally Brettnacher: the,

Chris Jones: I like the beat of

Ally Brettnacher: that stuff ...

Chris Jones: vibes. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I don't know, I don't even honestly know the names of any of the songs on the playlist probably- ... 'cause they all just blend, blend together.

Blend together. But they're all the same. Yeah. Yeah, so Kygo's one that I go to a lot. Other one I go back to is, my wife is Scottish, and so we've been to Scotland a couple times. Oh, that's fascinating. And I've, I've done some cool runs there, like, in the, like, foothills of Scotland, and I'll listen to, like, traditional Scottish folk music, and- Oh, that's

Ally Brettnacher: hilarious.

Chris Jones: That's fun ... and it's very, like, that's not really running music, but, like, it's very cool. Like, when you're out running in Scotland, kind of feel- Yeah ... Braveheart, Braveheart vibes or something. I don't know. Right. There's something about it. But I listen to a lot of, like, not super, like- I don't know, traditional- Top, top 50

running music There we go I listen to a lot of, like, folk music or, like, lighter stuff- Yeah ... and just getting... 'Cause endurance running is like I don't need to be, like, getting my heart rate up and, like, getting pumped up to run. I need to just be relaxed and chill. In the zone. Yeah.

Ally Brettnacher: So do you listen to music when you run all the time?

Chris Jones: A little bit. I kind of go off and on. I listen to a [00:59:00] lot of podcasts or- Yeah ... occasionally, like, an audiobook or something. But yeah, I'm sometimes running. Or sometimes music, I'll kind of flip it back and forth.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. And then what about for the mental side of it? Like, is there a mantra you use or mantras, like, the things you tell yourself to keep going?

Chris Jones: The really unhealthy mantra I use is, "If I just run faster, it'll be done sooner."

Ally Brettnacher: I, I think that a lot too, actually. Which

Chris Jones: is terrible. But-

Ally Brettnacher: Faster you

Chris Jones: run, faster you're done ... but on, on speed days, I... Yeah, exactly. On speed days, I will use that one as like a, "Well, if I just run a little bit faster, I can be done sooner, and I'll feel a better workout from it."

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, yeah.

Chris Jones: Um, and I honestly just like the classic, like, just keep going.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Just keep moving. Keep moving forward. Um, especially, I, I remember last year in Prayer on Fire telling myself that, like, just move forward. Um- Yeah ... 'cause sometimes just walking a few steps, like, get up out of the chair for that next loop, like, just move forward in some capacity and then take it one step at a time.

Yeah. Just like, it's kind of like- That's great advice for

Ally Brettnacher: anybody who's getting

Chris Jones: ready to do Prayer ... it just starts to click again. Yeah. Yeah, so, like, [01:00:00] walking is... A lot of people view ultra- people hear ultra-running, and they think we're running the whole time. It's a lot of walking. Right. That's where I would stop.

And if you get comfortable walking, get good at walking, like, it's really helpful. Yeah. So just move forward. Don't feel like you have to run right away. I think that, that's helped me mentally, especially at Prayer on Fire.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: If I, if I just walk, I'm making forward progress. I'll run when I'm ready to run.

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. TJ, who's the race director, always likes to say, uh, "Don't quit in the chair."

Chris Jones: Yeah. I love that advice.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah. I think it's really smart. Okay, and then next finish line and/or milestone. You have two, I mean-

Chris Jones: I've, yeah, ...

Ally Brettnacher: big milestone, big finish line for

Chris Jones: Big B.O Yeah. My next finish line, yeah, is literally creating a finish line. Yeah. So having the Big B.O.- That's cool ... go and hopefully go smoothly, which I'm g- we're getting closer and closer, and, like, everything is, like, coming down to the wire, and it's stressful for sure. Yeah. So that's been, that's the next, like, big one on my, that's been on, like, taking up a lot of, like, mental space for me.

Ally Brettnacher: Mm-hmm.

Chris Jones: Um, and then yeah, literal finish line for Prayer on Fire is my next big race. Right.

Ally Brettnacher: So that's- And that's the 12th of September ... yeah,

Chris Jones: that's coming

Ally Brettnacher: up in a couple weeks. Yeah. I had it on the wrong [01:01:00] date on my calendar. Oh, no. I was like, how is that possible? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. But it's the same day as another local race, the Geist Half Marathon.

Chris Jones: Right.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Same distance.

Ally Brettnacher: Um, I wonder how, we didn't talk about this earlier, but the tr- I wonder, the state of the trails. Have you been over to Kateweep Park where it takes place?

Chris Jones: I have not been up there yet. I know I saw on the either Kateweep or the White River Campground, I think the campground opens maybe today actually.

Okay. It reopens. I don't know what that means for The park. The, I saw some pictures of the shelter that is, like, the central area of, like, the start/finish line. Yeah, yeah. It was like, there was like six feet of water. So I, I- So crazy ... I, I know it's been underwater and been wild. I don't know the state of the prairie itself.

I'm, uh, knowing that it's packed gravel and a pretty, like, wide, flat course, I think it'll be okay.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: But yeah, I haven't talked to TG or anything. Um, I can't imagine what he's going through trying to make sure that this all happens. I'm-

Ally Brettnacher: Right. Yes ...

Chris Jones: I think it seems like we had, um, we have a [01:02:00] couple days of, like, no rain, and it should be-

Ally Brettnacher: I hope so

Chris Jones: fine, and hopefully- Yeah ... everything kinda dries out, but.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah, for, I mean- Yeah, we'll see ... we, it was in the national news that Indiana- Yeah ... central Indiana- Yeah ... in particular had a wh- like w- 100-year flood-

Chris Jones: Yeah ... just

Ally Brettnacher: happen. And so yeah, it's, that's just crazy to think about.

Chris Jones: Yeah. I'm, um, I'm nervous that if the trail's not in good condition, that we're just gonna be on the Night Loop the whole time.

Ally Brettnacher: That is a

Chris Jones: concern.

Ally Brettnacher: Which-

Chris Jones: I've heard others express ... if people don't know, the Night Loop is just an out and back on a paved trail along the-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ... highway. That

Chris Jones: sh-

Ally Brettnacher: that's a completely different race.

Chris Jones: Yeah, it feels- Yeah ... feels way harder-

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah ...

Chris Jones: um, mentally, 'cause you're just- Yeah ... flat, open, no shade.

Ally Brettnacher: Yeah.

Chris Jones: Um, yeah, it'd be very different.

But no, it'll be a different race. It'll be f- it'll still be fun.

Ally Brettnacher: It'll s- yeah, still do, still happen. Yeah. Would be, would be great. Good. Yeah. Oh, well, thank you so much for doing this. Yeah, this has been great. Chris. It was so fun. All right, and thanks everybody for listening, and happy running.

All right, let's support Chris. Head to the show notes, sign up for his race if you're local. And I also wanna shout out the other Chris Jones who I mentioned a couple times. His episode is episode 13, way back [01:03:00] when, my friend Chris Jones.

And has, he has an incredible story about being able to run after open-heart surgery. So go listen to that. And on a personal note, after I record this, I am heading to Austria with my husband on a business trip. I get to tag along. This is the first time I've ever done this. So I get to explore Vienna and Salzburg by myself, and I cannot wait.

So if you're listening to this and you've been, have any recommendations to shoot me last minute, please do that. I would really appreciate it. And of course, sign up for my weekly emails too, and share and rate and review. And I'm asking for a lot, but man, this is a lot of work, and I really wanna grow the show and could use your help.

So thanks for listening, and I will talk to you again soon. Bye.

Back to blog

Leave a comment

Please note, comments need to be approved before they are published.