Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 77

Here's a link to listen to this week's episode.

Guest: Sal Escamilla 

Show Notes: 

Sal Escamilla⁠ and I met earlier this year at the Carmel Marathon expo and after the race. During this episode, sponsored by ⁠Athlete Bouquets⁠, we talk about:

• The battle of the last name pronunciation (I lost)
• How we first met at the Carmel Marathon expo
• His experience at the 2024 ⁠Carmel Marathon⁠
• What we like to eat before and after marathons
• The Q Elite race in Michigan in December that was Sal’s first distance race
• Growing up in Elkhart, Indiana, the RV capital of the world
• An international race in Ireland that was measured in miles vs. kilometers
• How he’s the son of Mexican immigrants but embarrassingly isn’t fluent in Spanish
• How his gamer friends in high school got him into running but then backed out
• Running in college at ⁠Goshen College ⁠
• The traffic accident that allowed him to have another track season
• His professional career in technology as a developer
• Training for his first marathon that was at the Carmel Marathon in 2022
• ⁠The Boulderthon⁠ Marathon in Fall of 2022 - his first time running any kind of elevation
• How he ended up running a ⁠marathon in Rome⁠
• Why he doesn’t want to run the Boston Marathon but considers himself a "competitive vacation racer"

Episode Transcript

0:00

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones with Allie Brett Knocker.

Incredible stories and tales of triumph with everyday people achieving their goals and fitness.

This podcast brought to you by Athlete Bouquets.

Celebrate.

Finish lines and milestones of the people that you love by visiting athletebouquets.com.

0:22

Hello and welcome to episode 77.

This is Allie Brett Knocker.

Last weekend I ran the Indy half at Fort Ben Half marathon #61 My friend Ashley Haynes, who was on this podcast previously kindly paced me.

0:37

I ran a 15552, which was around the workout my coach had prescribed.

I was supposed to do about a 815 pace.

Did about just about that, maybe a little under, but felt challenging, I think partially because the hills, but it was really fun.

0:56

I loved seeing everybody out there.

There were so many people, so many familiar faces.

My last week's guest, Mark Glover, was out there and he was running with the USATF Masters national champions and he became one.

1:13

His team won the national national championship and he himself took silver.

So congratulations to Mark.

I also saw my friend Mark Geyer.

He was out there spectating because he's getting ready to tackle Chicago this weekend.

He's also going to become a dad again, so super excited for him.

1:33

My friend Gordon said he accidentally PR Ed at Fort Bend.

My friend Eileen, again, these are guests on the podcast.

She did what she thought she could not do and she finished 1/2 marathon.

She's been really struggling in running lately and you know, a lot just in the mental space and I was just so incredibly proud of her for finishing and was so happy I could be there.

1:57

My friend Timmy was taking photos and took some amazing ones that I've shared on Instagram.

And then also, not at the Fort Bend half, but my friend Michael Hartnagel recently passed a milestone of his dad being gone for a year and he ran Marathon of the year #10 out in Denver, Co around a Cancer Center.

2:23

And Nathaniel, who is cheesy run on Instagram.

He was recently on the podcast.

He happened to be in Denver and was able to meet up with Michael.

Nathaniel is a cancer survivor.

And so it's just so perfect and how fun to see two previous guests on the podcast connect and be together for something so incredible.

2:43

So Congrats, guys.

Then Will Simon, who was recently on, did his first 100K and he, I can't remember, came in fifth.

I think just an incredible showing for him.

Brittany Kother who was recently on here for Chaos Crewing, she did her first 100 Miller and came in 7th.

3:05

Just incredible.

And then Jay was also Jay Idlejorg was out there and did his first 50 Miller.

And then another friend of mine who was on this podcast, Bailey Smith, she's getting ready to get married.

So I ramble on, but I just want you to know if you are somewhat new here or if you haven't listened to some of these stories, go back and do that.

3:25

I just love being able to build this community of sorts and follow along with what everyone's doing and help them celebrate these finish lines and milestones.

So I was recently in Chicago for my fall break.

So we were supposed to go to Tampa.

3:44

We were going to stay on Saint Pete Beach.

And clearly, you know what happened in Tampa?

There was a huge hurricane kind of Round 2.

So Helene caused our resort to shut down and so then we moved a little bit inland in Tampa hoping for the best and then Milton showed up.

4:02

So we ended up pivoting and going to Chicago instead.

But you know, I just feel for the communities that are just getting hit over and over down in Florida.

And so we went to Chicago for fall break.

I went with my family, so my husband and my 2 girls and my in laws came with us and we were there Monday through Thursday.

4:22

And then it was so hard for me to come back because the city was starting to just fill with runners.

You could tell people had their Berlin jackets on or their previous years of Chicago swag on or just race shirts.

And I got a chance to run on Lakeshore Drive a couple times or not Lakeshore Drive on Lakeshore Path a couple of times thankfully, which I just, I haven't been able to do actually since before the pandemic.

4:49

It was the last time I was in Chicago and I myself is have actually run the Chicago Marathon. 10/10/10 was my very first marathon.

Then I ran in 2011, took a couple years off and then I ran in 2014 which is my PR of 35659 and then also ran in 2015.

5:10

So I haven't run in almost 10 years, but it just feels like yesterday and being in the city when I could see, you know, all the signage starting to pop up too.

I was just so envious of everybody who gets to toe the line on Sunday.

So that brings me to this week's guest.

5:29

I have Sal Escamilla on and he and I met at the Carmel Expo, Carmel Marathon Expo earlier this year.

But he's getting ready to run Chicago.

It'll be his first Chicago Marathon and he's going for a sub 2:30, which is just mind blowing for me.

5:47

I think that that's a great half marathon goal for the normal human being.

But Sal is certainly a little bit beyond that.

But I was just, I, I don't know, he, we were kind of fast friends just chatting about running.

And so I needed to know more about his running journey.

6:03

And so I really hope that you enjoy this conversation with Sal where, you know, we talk about how he got into running and the races he's done.

And he has dubbed himself a competitive vacation runner, which I am all about.

6:20

So that's towards the end of the episode, we talk about that.

But you got to hear him out because I think I'm going to get on that train as well.

So enjoy this conversation with my friend Sal, OK?

We're doing it.

6:36

Nice.

Now or never, we're here, Sal.

You ready?

Good to see you again.

Good to see you too.

I've been what, like so six months, something like that.

Yeah, April.

That's a lot of math right now.

What is it?

What's today?

September.

6:51

It's almost October.

So 5 months, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, we met at the Carmel Expo for the Carmel Marathon.

And were you running the full or the half?

I was running the full.

I had a few of my teammates, they were doing the half, but I'm the only full.

I'm the only full runner of them.

They can't do it.

7:07

You are the only one that does full marathons.

Actively, I guess, yeah, I got two of my teammates.

They're like training a little more further out, but I try to.

I'm a little more active with it.

Yeah, You guys hear that?

You guys hear Sal talking a little trash?

You guys can't do that.

You got to get it together now.

They're gonna, Yeah.

Yeah, Now they're gonna.

7:23

Now they're gonna.

Now that you said that and then I don't want to butcher your last name, Escamillo.

No escamilla.

Escamilla.

Escamilla.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, damn it.

So I do remember when we when we first met, we had each other on Strava and you were and you said you're not going to be able to pronounce my last, last name like I wouldn't be able to pronounce yours.

7:44

And I was like, I bet I have you beat.

And you did, Didn't.

You.

I pronounced your name Brett Knucker.

Yeah, you did it right and.

Then so I won that deal.

It's too early to have my ass kicked, damn it.

I'm sorry, Escamilla.

And you're not the first to mess it up.

8:01

I'm sure be the last.

Well, especially in Indiana, people are like, yeah, I mean, God bless my father-in-law.

But we go to a restaurant and he's like, I'll have the quesadilla or the eras Apollo.

And I'm like, Oh my God.

Heard it all, heard it all but.

You've heard it all so well.

8:16

Thanks so much for doing this.

I thank you for having.

Me and thanks for visiting my booth at the Carmel Expo.

It was the first time I'd ever had a booth at an Expo, so it was just really nice to have people like you come up and like just chat.

And I'm like, OK, This is why I love this, because I love runners.

Right, right.

8:32

No, I would have been convinced you were like a seasoned veteran at it.

Oh, thank you.

That's very nice.

I was faking it.

All right, fair enough.

Well, you faked it really well.

Yeah, thank you.

So how was the marathon for you?

Comma marathon.

It was it.

I mean, it definitely hurt just than any other marathon, but I so I'm not much of A strategist.

8:52

I like have an idea like, OK, maybe I want to go for this phase.

My goal, my goal was like a sub 230.

OK, but I was also leading up to I was feeling a little more cocky.

I was like, you know what, maybe I can go for like a 225.

Maybe I'll feel it out, see what happens.

Well, race starts and we start with like the half marathoners too, because I have my teammates I train with.

9:14

They were the my, my one teammate Jackson, he was training for like a 112 half marathon.

And in my, in my head, I was like, you know what marathons they're going to start out fast.

I'll run with Jack for a little bit, gun start, probably like 6-7 miles.

9:30

He and I are just right next to each other.

Like we we were faster than 112.

We were like 5 into 520.

Oh my gosh.

I'll figure it out.

And then once we start going to like the little like neighborhood with like the hills, that's when I realized, all right, maybe I'm making a mistake.

Let me follow a little bit.

Maybe this is a little fast.

9:47

Yeah, yeah, the hills.

I tell people Carmel's flat and then people are like, no, it's roll and which it is kind of rolling hills, but relative to what I guess is like kind of hard to gauge what people have experienced when it comes to hills.

But right there are a few sneaky ones in Carmel.

10:04

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

And then like when the hill on like probably like mile 10 or something like that, yeah, when you're running, you make a last turn and it's like kind of a little more aggressive rolling.

Yes, yeah, That one's probably the biggest one, at least on the half.

10:20

I have not run the full.

Yeah, but that I know which one you're talking about, 'cause you go up and then you go through roundabout and you're kind of still going up, 'cause you go over Keystone.

Yeah.

And then you're at the high school and then for the half you're like getting now you're not like 11 after that and you're almost there.

10:35

Yeah, Yeah.

So at that point I realized I'm going, I'm going to burn out if I can go into place.

I ended up I ended up closing the first half like a 11240 or something like that.

Sal.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, and then I definitely pay for it.

10:52

In the second-half.

I was all alone.

I had, I couldn't see the next person up.

I didn't really look back.

But then probably mile 20, 21 or 22, I was in.

I was in struggle bus at that point and the guy that's behind me, he caught up, put me in the dust easily.

11:09

OK.

And.

Then do you know like the half course or like or the full course in the last little bit like goes out double S back and like you can see the people.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, well, I saw, I saw the first blade guy and I was like, you know what?

He's not that far.

11:25

I might be able to.

I'm I'm, I like to think I have a good clothes.

I can close pretty well.

Well, I might be able to catch him, start speeding up, go around, turn around.

I'm going back to where I'm.

I'm where he, I'm where?

I saw him, yeah.

Yeah.

And then we then it starts colliding with like the half marathoners.

11:44

And if, if of course collide, like if I see other runners and I'm running with them, I'm a whole different person.

I'm wake up.

I'm like, oh, there's so many people.

Some of them are climbing.

They're like let's go marathoner.

That gets me really into it.

So I'm able to get down to like A5 like a 53520 page and then we're going back through town and I end up catching the guy that passed me earlier.

12:06

OK, so like, wow.

So I gave him like a good like let's finish it, let go.

But I I was moving at that point and all the half member dollars, they were getting excited.

Like let's go, let go.

I had my biker.

He was leading the way. 3rd place coming through.

12:22

Well, at that point he is a second place coming through.

Oh the God that I'm hived.

I'm I'm really in it.

Yeah, then, yeah.

Then I finished the straightaway pretty strong.

That ducking through crowds, it got really crowded.

Yeah, that has to be hard when you collide with all the half marathoners, because at that point, I mean, not like they're not like super slow.

12:43

I mean, what?

That's like a 2 1/2 hour half marathon ish.

Oh, yeah, yeah, no, they're still good.

They're still doing good.

But.

Yeah, man.

So what did you finish in?

A 2:30. 3233 and that What place was that?

So in person it was second, but time wise it was third because like someone started a little further back and you know what I mean?

13:05

I know.

So hard, Yeah.

Because I didn't know that happened.

Really.

I like it's like sometimes they do like chip time for sometimes they do like the starting line got like gun time, but I'm pretty sure the gun time is more for like the like more elite.

13:20

Like yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like I, I would imagine if you're going to place in like the top three, you should start at the gun.

That's sneaky.

That's that's what I think too.

But it's fair.

He ran faster to me.

Yeah, but.

That's that's that's wild.

13:36

I wonder if I know.

What's his name?

Do you remember?

I don't.

OK, that's fine.

I don't.

That's good.

Sometimes I feel like I would remember because I'd be like, ah, right, right.

Whatever your name is.

Right, right.

Well, congratulations.

Thank you.

Thank you.

But I ended up closing the second-half marathon like a 120, like a 121.

13:52

So I like what, 9 minutes?

Yeah, slower than my first half, but.

Still, that's really impressive that you were able to fight through having burned so fast at the.

Start, Yeah.

Yeah, I think I told you this when I saw you at the finish, 'cause I did end up getting to see you after that.

14:09

I saw a guy who had, like, the same kind of hair as you, like, on the side of the road with, like, some medical people.

And I was like, I yelled at him, too.

I was like, oh, it's all right, Salvador, you know, And like, the guy's like, I don't even know if he could hear me.

14:24

But it was not you, which I was glad 'cause I was like, oh man, yeah, I'd pictured, oh, you just started too fast or whatever, or got hurt.

Which thankfully there aren't really potholes to speak of in Carmel since we keep our roads so nice.

But.

Roads were really nice, yeah.

14:40

Yeah.

And was it your first time doing the the Carmel race at all?

No, no, I had done Carmel two years 20/20/2022 at the Carmel Marathon.

Oh, you.

Did the marathon then as well.

OK 22.

14:56

I can't remember what the weather was like.

It was cool, it was cooler.

They were like a little, very little flurries at some.

Point where I did the 10K that year.

Yeah, I think, yes, I think.

I don't remember.

Gosh, it's so hard.

OK, so that wasn't your first time doing the Carmel Marathon.

15:13

Was your second though.

My second time doing the Carmel Marathon, yeah, so I I know what to expect with like the route, but.

That helps.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And then how did your teammates fare?

Were they happy with how they did?

Oh yeah, Jackson, it was his first.

15:29

I, I got a funny story about one of my teammates, but Jackson, it was his first first half marathon and he killed it.

He, he ended up running like 110 one, 110 mid, Jeez.

But he didn't play and like for, for his first one, he played pretty well.

15:47

He I think he was 9th.

Wow, OK.

But yeah.

Yeah, it's fast half.

It it is.

It is, yeah.

And then my other, my one of my teammates, Liam, he was going to, he was going to do the five, he was going to do the five.

16:02

Ki guess he I don't know, I guess the five and 10K star at the same time.

Do you know that?

Yeah.

OK, well, I'm.

I'm just like, I don't want to be like yes and then I'm wrong.

I could always edit it and.

Right.

I'll have to ask him again about it, but he ended up doing the loop for the other race for the 10K.

16:23

Oh, so he went out RIP and he was going to try to go for like a sub 15.

Oh.

Shoot.

And then he then, yeah, we still play.

I think he still plays like placed like top five anyway.

It's like, good for him, but.

Man that would be a mind like definitely hard when you realize you're not doing.

16:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I wonder at what point he realized that.

Yeah, I wonder, because, yeah, I wonder.

I'll be asking him again about it and.

Yeah, that would be tough to be like, oh, I'm on the 10K class.

Great.

Right, right, got take.

Not what I wanted to.

Do good, good training stimulus.

16:56

Got to take about the prize right for anything I guess.

Yeah, I guess so.

And how did you guys celebrate after the race?

Did you stay in Carmel?

We just stayed to Carmel.

We went out.

Some of the we went to it was like, I think it was like mighty mushroom.

Oh, it was like a pizza.

Place.

Yeah.

17:11

What's that called?

Mellow Mushroom.

Mellow Mushroom, Yeah, We went there, got had some drink, got pizza and then we went to we went to where was it?

It was another bar like right along the race path.

You know, as you're going out, race start as you're going out.

17:29

OK, is going to be on the right OK.

Is it in like the big Palladium, like all that area, like the all the shops that are there right after you start?

No, a little further down once you're on like the wooded trail or like yeah, the wooded trail and after the bridge, after you go under the.

17:49

Bridge.

There's something I don't know.

I don't know.

I'm awful too, because the bars that I go to in Carmel are limited.

Usually it's the bar at my house.

Right, right.

Fair enough.

So I mean there's a few certainly that I've been to and if you said it, I'd probably know if you remember.

18:06

Well, that's good that you guys went out and properly celebrated.

Oh yeah, went for a few drinks, yeah.

Yeah.

What is your pre race kind of ritual?

Do you have like certain things you like to eat before you race?

Like the night before?

Did you guys stay here?

I'm assuming for sure.

18:22

Yeah, we, we, we got a hotel and we stayed here kind.

I don't have like anything direct, like a lot and cheap is my criteria for what I eat.

Yeah.

Yeah, I usually do pizza the night before and then I'm like cheeseburger after.

18:38

Right, right.

Just kind of.

Funny, that's kind of how I I would eat pizza after too.

But I would eat pizza anytime.

Cheeseburgers would do it.

Cheeseburgers aren't sensational after.

Yeah, I love a good cheeseburger after for sure.

So you got into when was the first time you did like a distance race like 1/2 marathon or marathon?

18:58

First time I did distance race it would have been 20.

It would have been during college by sophomore year OK, which was 2018 in December.

OK, Oh, a December.

19:15

Race a December race in Indiana?

No, it was in Michigan.

OK, even worse.

Great.

Yeah, Yeah.

And it was like it called, it called the Q elite half marathon.

It doesn't happen anymore.

But it was like put on by.

So I'm I ran for the Fort Goshen College and the NAIA.

19:34

They have like they have the marathon and have well, not, not anymore, I don't think.

But they have had like the marathon.

You qualify for the marathon at nationals by doing the half marathon.

I wasn't going to train for a marathon, but I still like they still have had an event, the key elite half marathon that people could get a fast qualifier there so they can start training for during the track season for the marathon because it's the two.

19:59

Oh yeah, NC day NCAA doesn't have it.

So it's definitely unique, but.

Yeah, what is it called?

The The what?

Elite.

Q Elite.

Q elite.

Yeah, like the letter Q or like.

Letter Q.

OK.

Yeah, interesting.

Yeah.

So then they they put on December like a week after cross country nationals and our coach was like, hey, if you want to do this, have marathon pull up, we'll pay for your entry.

20:22

You're like, OK, sure.

I don't know.

Yeah, I guess.

OK.

And how was that experience for you it?

It, it was really fun like I'm I'm getting getting getting into it off of 8K training, so I already got like a good bit of strength in me.

20:38

So I'm like, you know what, I don't know, We'll see the the the half marathon to qualify for the marathon, the using the half marathon, the time you got to be at like 115.

OK, something I end up bringing like a one 1350 and I was like, you know what, I'm pretty good at that.

What?

What?

20:55

Wow, OK.

Right, OK.

I do that again.

Yeah, but since it's during the winter, so there's obviously like snow, snow all around and on that course it's just out and back on like a wooded trail with like paved OK for but it's already like rain.

There's already ice all over the Oh my gosh, every year it happened, there'd always be ice all over it.

21:15

At least one or two people would fall during the race that.

Would be brutal.

It was.

It's a whole nother layer of like to the experience.

Yeah, yeah.

So then you'll like midway through the course, they'll be like the spectators are like watch out right here.

They'll be pointing out like an ice.

Oh, that's.

Nice, at least.

Oh yeah, kind of a heads up.

21:30

Well, I mean, they could try to melt it, but all they're going to do is create more ice.

Probably.

Well, I guess with salt you could try, but right?

I don't know.

I don't know.

It's wild.

Right.

I don't know if I've done a December race ever.

I I think you should.

Oh God, there's one that's like a Santa oriented one that's in downtown Indy.

21:48

I don't know if they still do.

I'm sure they do like a Santa.

Hustle or something?

Yeah.

I've always been kind of intrigued by it, right, right.

But by then I've usually done quite a few fall things.

And so I'm like, right, right.

The weather here can be dicey, but I don't mind the cold as much as I mind the heat, frankly.

22:04

Really.

Yeah.

Did you get hot at the end of Carmel this year 'cause it was pretty, it did get pretty warm.

It did get pretty warm.

No, I I wasn't too, too bad.

OK.

What you after you were half?

Yeah, I've started feeling the heat, not so much while I was running, but definitely afterwards.

Like I wished I would have had some sunscreen and I was.

22:22

I was on the microphone helping some guys like announce finishers, which I'm like, how did I miss you?

I must have seen you.

I must have cheered for you.

I did for sure, So I know.

Myself, I'll believe you, I guess.

But I didn't hear them.

I remember.

Seeing the winner come through and he like came through, we missed what his name was because he just was with all the half marathoners, right too.

22:43

So it was kind of hard to tell what was going on.

And so I remember going up to him and being like, hey, what, You know, you must have like flown through the end and just like left because I otherwise would have been like.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I'll believe you.

I'll believe you.

You.

Should believe me because I would not lie about that.

Something like right So.

22:59

But not after your half.

You went straight to work.

I know.

I'm not surprised that you heated up a little bit you didn't get.

I went straight to work.

I did get all my like, banana and chips and stuff too.

And then the guys that were already announcing like weren't they weren't runners?

So I wonder what they thought they were probably like.

What the hell are you doing?

Yeah, just get up here and talk, yeah?

23:16

I'm like, I'm trying to survive right after running, but I took, I didn't take it easy necessarily, but I did have planned to enjoy that race.

I ran with Todd Oliver, who created the race.

It was his race and he sold it.

So that was the first.

23:32

This was the first year that he got to run his own race.

And so he was the 150 pace group for the half.

And so I was like, I'm going to run with Todd and I did for most of the race.

And then towards the end I speed up to to finish strong.

But right, well, he probably won't listen to this, but he he tripped over a traffic cone during the race.

23:53

So crazy.

I'm like Todd, are you serious?

Like you literally create events.

You put the cone you.

You're responsible for this cone and you've he full on did like a somersault.

It was wild.

That was great.

He gets the adrenaline pump in Elliot.

Yeah, I was.

I was like, oh gosh, you better still be able to run because I'm not prepared to like just be a pacer all of a sudden.

24:12

So anyway, I digress, but let's go back to your upbringing.

So are you from Northern Indiana originally?

Yep, I grew up in Elkhart, Elkhart, went to College in Goshen, only just stayed in there.

Yeah, all my life.

Yeah, Elkhart is like the RV capital of the world got.

24:29

That right?

Yeah, I've been there.

And then I've been to Goshen.

I can't remember if I told you this when we met.

I go to Lake Wawasee in Syracuse IN.

So it's probably like, I don't know, half hour from Goshen maybe.

It would take, yeah, more or less.

So I'm somewhat familiar with, like somewhat familiar.

24:48

There's a lot of small towns that I don't know, but they're Goshen.

They're all the same.

Yeah, you got you.

They're all very similar, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

So what was it like growing up in in Elkhart?

Like what did your were your parents in the RV business?

Is that why you're up there?

Or just tell me about.

25:04

Well I'm not 100% on the fact of my family's past, but my parents ended up moving to Elkhart after they came in from Mexico.

OK.

Way back when in the California, then in California too.

Your parents came from directly from Mexico to California to Indiana.

25:22

Yeah.

Cool.

And then so my two sisters were born in California, OK.

And then the then when our parents moved, then I was born in Elkhart.

In Elkhart.

Got it.

OK, and so you are the baby.

I am the baby.

And you have two older sisters.

How old are your sisters?

I get this wrong sometimes.

25:39

I do too.

I have two younger sisters and I can't remember how old I am half the time.

So, so last I remember, my oldest sister is 32, OK, and my middle sister is, she has four years on me.

So I think she's turning 29 OK in December, actually.

OK.

And that would make you 25?

25:55

Yes.

OK, see that I did math.

Don't worry.

Nice.

Where in California were they born?

Very down South, they called Mexicali OK or no El Centro.

OK, El Centro.

Yeah.

Right.

So like right on the like close to the border.

Not too far, yeah.

26:11

Yeah, wow.

And when we go visit, we just go down.

We'll get like some drinks or something, yeah, over the border and then come back.

OK, so they still live there?

No.

OK.

So my my oldest sister lives in Elkhart.

She has her family, children, my middle sister, she moved to Ireland with her boyfriend.

26:28

What?

Yeah, that's wild.

And actually now she moved to Germany.

Cool.

All right, We're in Germany.

Like lick, lick.

OK, yeah.

Lick peg.

Yeah.

Unless you said in one of the main cities, I'm out now.

I don't know.

I know like I know a few cities, a handful of cities in Germany and that's about it.

26:46

Well, that's cool.

Have you been able to go visit them?

Actually, this year I went to go visit my sister in Ireland.

I did do a little race while I was out there.

They kind of like, oh, let me, well, I'm going to be out there anyway, Let me add another notch in my belt or whatever for races.

Yeah, getting on over sleeves.

27:02

Wow.

And is that when you went to Rome?

No, that's different.

That was another one.

OK, we got a backup.

Hold on before I get too far ahead of myself.

OK, so this year you did a race in Ireland?

This year I did a race in Ireland, OK.

Correct. 1/2 marathon or a marathon?

It was a it was a 5 five mile.

27:18

Five mile?

How random.

Yeah, that's funny.

It's even, I think it's even funnier that it's like it was marketed five mile instead of 8K, right?

I was like, oh, you're like, wait a minute, I'm the 8K guy.

I run an 8K, right?

Like in college, right?

And then you go to run in Ireland of all places.

27:34

They should use kilometers.

Right, right.

Yeah.

That's so funny.

Yeah, kind of weird.

Yeah.

It was like they have like a race theory that all ends with a Dublin Marathon.

OK.

And this is one of like, the races that, like, they score points and at the end of the series, they'll like, get money or something.

27:54

Oh.

Interesting.

I was like, oh I'm going to be around this area around this time.

Let me go on the like the Ireland Racing website or and see if there's anything going on.

Cork Park I think it was called.

OK.

It was like, I think it was like 1800 people.

28:11

It was like pretty small parks.

I'm I'm surprised.

Yeah, that's so fun.

Oh yeah.

Wow.

And how did it go?

I went out a little fast.

I went out like, I mean, I didn't train for it.

I didn't like section out my cycle to peak for this race.

28:27

Yeah, you're a cycle.

Let's just see what happens.

Yeah, I opened up with like a four, like 450, first mile, OK, Second mile, settle a little more like a high 4, high 450, then like a 5-10 and then like a 530 and then and then a thick minute and then back down.

28:45

But I ended up play finishing fifth.

That's cool.

That's fun.

Yeah.

Wow.

Ireland.

So it was only 5 miles.

Was it scenic?

It was in like it was in a park.

Like in a park, Yeah.

Like it doesn't look the same as any park that we have here.

OK, so you're just like OK well cuz was it in Dublin area you said?

29:05

It was like southwest, southwest, like 30 minutes.

OK, don't mind.

OK cuz in Dublin I picture there's like a river.

I was there.

I went there in college.

OK, nice.

At some point for like a weekend.

Nice, and I bought a plane ticket for the wrong day so that he'll never forget.

29:21

Right, right, right.

So yeah, so I've been to Dublin, that'd be so cool to to a race overseas.

I still haven't so.

You got to get one now.

Yeah.

So we'll get, we'll come back to Rome because I want to talk about that.

Right, right.

But OK.

So do either of your sisters run at all or did they?

29:38

No, in my family, the only one only one that ran in high school was my uncle.

He lives on California.

Okay, it's taking me a while to get times.

He'd be like I have to run back in the day while how fat like what were your times?

29:54

What were you doing?

You like I don't remember.

It's like you remember you don't remember, you just.

Don't want to tell?

You don't want to compare?

Yeah, but eventually I was able able to get something out of him and he was like, oh, like a 1540 some which in California like with it's the present a lot of course is like really hilly up in the mountains type of thing.

30:11

It's all he was pretty good.

I know he's done like marathons over time, like but like not like training for or not like competitive marathon.

We're just getting something done, like the LA Marathon he's done.

And yeah, San Diego.

There's like a little bit in your family now.

30:27

Is that your mom's brother or your dad's brother?

My mom's brother.

Mom's brother.

OK, but your mom didn't run.

Mom.

No.

No.

OK.

What does she think about your running?

She loves, she loves going out to races.

Oh, that's fun because reminds me.

Reminds her of her brother.

30:42

Yeah.

She's like, oh, I remember my brother used to run so much.

He'd be all that.

Yeah.

What was it like growing up with like Mexican immigrants as your parents like in Elkhart IN of all places?

Like I just picture gosh, even here, like the amount of people that could actually like speak Spanish or So what would what do you remember about your childhood and like growing up?

31:09

Right.

So early on, my dad pretty much exclusively spoke Spanish.

My mom spoke English and Spanish.

OK, I went to school, it was English.

I went to ESO.

I, I think I, I think I'm mostly with my, my list, I don't know if you can tell, But also like for Spanish speaking, I, I, since I have since lost the accent, yeah, my accent used to be a little stronger.

31:32

And I'm all all embarrassingly lean enough.

I'm not like 100% fluent in Spanish.

Really.

Really.

And I it is embarrassing.

I'm going to razz.

I I hear it enough from my family, I don't got to hear it from here too.

Yeah, that's, that's funny.

31:48

That's interesting.

OK, Yeah, 'cause I was going to say you don't really have, you don't have a Mexican accent, which you would kind of picture with your, like, amazing hair.

Oh, thank.

You the good thing about a video there you.

Don't see the hair.

No, it's like, I mean, people got to be like, man, that hair is amazing.

Yeah, well, I mean, a lot of times people they'll think I'm like Indian or Afghani or more from.

32:08

That area, OK.

And especially after the summer, my skin's a little darker, right?

I look a little bit, okay, I could see that.

I could see that, yeah.

So yeah, English as a second language in school.

Did you run right away like when you started and when you were able to like cross country once you were of age?

32:27

Or not at all.

Not at all.

You know, the yes, they're like the like people that play video games.

The stereotype is they're young.

They spend hours at night sleeping at night just playing video games.

That was me.

I was a big gamer.

I hadn't knew nothing about going outside, being athletic.

32:42

Running even less though.

So during junior high, middle school didn't do any of the running.

Wow.

And then so I picked it up in high school.

Really.

Yeah.

During the track season, I do that.

A few of my, a few of my gamer friends, they were like, hey, let's do, we should do track.

32:59

Sure.

I don't know.

I'll pull up.

Yeah.

So I went to we went to track rides to get track rides together for like 2 weeks or something.

OK.

I ended up I ended up rolling my ankle.

So I was like I got to take some time off.

So I didn't go for like another week.

I came back and.

33:15

But when I came back, my friends at the time, they ended up not going anymore.

Really.

Yeah, I was already there.

And I do remember a very specific conversation with my coach.

He was like, hey, is out.

Even if you're injured, you still got to show up.

And I was like, OK, I apologize and I don't know.

But at that point I felt a little more accountable to show up.

33:32

I like, well, I got to keep going.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, one one day after another, I kept coming up and I, I've told my coaches this.

I think I've told my coaches this before, but I was really not like I would hot, hot like we'd be.

It'd be during like the preseason where it'd be training and it'd be cold outside.

33:50

We'd be running through the halls of school.

I would like get, go into the bathroom and just hide out.

Not because I didn't want to do the work, because I just had to.

I needed a break.

That is so.

Funny, so I'd be posed up on the wall just with my arm out.

Actually like standing on a toilet so no one can tell you're in there hiding.

34:10

Yeah.

And every now and then, someone would come in and they'd be like, what are you doing?

I just had to go to the bathroom.

I'm.

I'm on my way up.

Good.

Yeah.

Oh, that's funny.

Inside.

Inside.

Is it just because of the weather?

Yeah, it was cold.

It was snowing.

We, well, we had like the lake effect, it would usually be a little colder.

34:26

Yeah, yeah.

That is so crazy to me that your friends were like, come on, Sal, let's let's do track.

And you're like, OK.

And then you get injured and then they're like, never mind, we don't want to do this.

And then you're just like, well, I committed.

To I'm already here, I'm already here, I already got the shoes.

34:43

Yeah, How did you roll your ankle?

I was an idiot because we would also do like a lap on like the stairs, like going up and down the stairs and just just.

Like missed a stair?

And missed a stair.

Did you have to be in a boot?

No, no.

Well.

That's, that's good.

Oh yeah, that sucks.

I was like, you know what?

Kind of not like a boot, but like a little like.

35:01

Oh yeah, the little air cast thing.

Yeah.

What they got, I don't know what they call it.

Does your ankle bother you anymore now?

Like, is it still kind of sensitive?

Well.

Probably not from that, but I mean, over the years, OK, I've rolled my ankles a million Times Now.

Beat myself up over time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I was a soccer player and I don't remember ever rolling my ankle for soccer, but like I did when I played here in Carmel, they have a place called Off the Wall Sports.

35:27

And I played Coed like over 30s league and I rolled my ankle doing that.

And that's when I was like, OK, if I have to stop running because I rolled my ankle playing Coed indoor soccer, like we're not going to do this anymore, right?

But my ankle's really never been the same.

It's been kind of like my weak, weaker ankle, right?

35:45

Anyway, that's why I asked.

But.

I would have thought with the soccer back on your ankles would be bulletproof.

You would think.

Yeah, you would think not.

I guess in older age I don't know if maybe I'm just weaker now or I don't know.

Well, they're getting coddled.

They're they got to be rolled every now and then.

Keep them on the toes.

36:00

No, I can't imagine.

Please no.

Run on slants.

Right.

Yeah.

So OK, I can't believe you didn't start until high school and then you ran in college.

How did you find?

Like what distance you were good at, like or like events and track, just whatever your coach was like, hey, you're going to do this and you're like, OK.

36:18

Yeah, yeah, I was very uneducated on what was going on and you'd be like, hey, you should try this 400.

Sure, I'll give it a try.

Yeah.

And then you're like, OK, try this mild.

They wouldn't let me.

They my first that first season, they wouldn't let me do the two mile because they didn't think I'd finish.

I'm like, OK, I guess I'm not doing the two mile.

36:36

Interesting.

And then you ended up being an 8K runner in college.

Yeah, I mean, lacrosse AK is like the only thing.

Sorry.

Yeah, Cross.

Country shows how much I know.

All right?

Yeah.

But was during the like the latter half of my high school career, I just felt that like really clicked.

36:54

I fell in love with the race thing.

I was like, I'll do anything I tell in college.

I told my coaches, I don't care what I do.

I'll do like a 5K like 5K mile 800 triple and I'll still do a 4 by 4 because I love the racing because you know how the 4 by 4 is already at like the the end And I'm not a sprinter, but I if if everyone backs out, I'll do it.

37:17

I love the racing.

It's so fun.

Well, I mean, I guess, yeah, thanks to your friends for getting you to do track.

So did you.

So you did track and then that same year did you do cross country then?

Because you were like, oh, and your track coach was probably like, well, you should.

If you like this, you should do this.

37:32

Yeah, not because I liked it, but because he he was like a year out of you.

You could probably build up a little bit in there.

And you don't have No.

Yeah, All right.

Fair enough.

Yeah, good enough.

OK.

Yeah, I only ran.

I did track my freshman year of high school and that was it, right?

I wish I would have stuck with it.

I wish I would have done cross country right.

37:49

But you know, I was a soccer player.

I dabbled in basketball, which I was horrible at, and I also played tennis.

So I mean, the blessing of going to a smaller school, which Westfield High School is now not small.

When I went there, you could just play whatever you wanted if you were athletic, which I was.

38:05

So, But I wish I would have now being a runner, I like to look back and I'm like, what could I have accomplished if I would have done it then, Right, Right.

You know.

You got you got range.

That's lobby.

Like a lot.

Of I got range I guess.

A lot of run, a lot of runs don't have like the mobility or like range of motion that maybe you have.

38:24

Yeah, well, definitely not a basketball player, I can tell you that the tennis I I was good at and then.

Or like relatively speaking.

So at least there was that.

But yeah, so at one point in actually I want to ask you about high school just in general.

38:41

So like, how was your high school experience?

You had friends that were gamers, did you?

I mean, pretty easy experience.

Again, I just picture like being like, I don't know, you're like a son of immigrants in like this small ass like farm town Indiana.

39:00

Like I.

Just.

But was it easy for you?

Yeah, Yeah, I'd say, I'd say it was easy.

I mean, Concord, it's it's fairly diverse though like you, I I still like talk.

I didn't use Spanish as often, but I would like, I still got like little bits and pieces of like each different group.

39:22

I would never like.

I was, I was actually actually, I was very introverted, extremely introverted.

Me and that person, me now and that person then.

Totally different, totally different people.

Yeah, but so with relate to running early on after after those friends left, sure your.

39:42

Friends ditched.

You thanks guys.

Yeah, yeah.

And for like, for the most part, I was just showing up.

I like didn't really have any friends.

So I would just show up, do the work, go go home, show up, do the work, go home.

But then at some point some of the friends, like they reach out and be like, hey, Sal, how how you feeling about your race?

39:58

And then those friends, I still have them now.

Our friendship will last forever.

Have you converted them to runners now?

They were runners.

Like, oh, OK, well, the ones that I mean like or just the ones on your team you're talking about, not the guys that were like you go run and we're going to back.

40:14

Out the ones on the the ones on the team, they eventually reached out.

They're like, oh, you lend a lot of hand because so it was my first mile race on track.

I don't I didn't know how to pace.

I went out, it was like the front group, like 5 low pace. second-half hit me like hit me like a train.

40:37

So slow way down to like I ended up my first model was like a six O 9 OK, which so that second-half would have been like what probably like a 4 minute if I went out fast enough in the first little bit.

So and then and then maybe like, Hey, Sal, what Sal, what was your plan for that?

What?

40:54

Yeah, respectfully, what the hell were you thinking?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's kind of how it started.

I'd be like, oh, we can teach you how to do this.

We can teach you how to do that.

And then the friendships formed over the years.

Yeah, that's great.

Yeah.

And then by the end of by the end of my high school career, I was starting to get a little cocky.

41:09

So I was like, OK.

Yeah, you're like, OK, now I got.

This I got.

I got it down.

I'm pretty good.

Yeah.

At least I thought I was pretty good.

Well, I mean, clearly to run in college you have to be good, right?

Right.

Yeah, so, so here's here's how's here's how I see it.

I'm so my my college coach, he tells me now that he at the time he over overpaid for me.

41:31

Like I was very my, my 5 KPR was like a 1645.

And now he's recruiting people that are like 16 O's, high fifteens, all that and like sub 2 high 8 hundreds.

I, I never broke 2IN Neander.

So who am I?

41:46

I'm just a guy.

I I was local so he really liked that.

Yeah, that's not a very nice thing to say.

No, I mean it's mine.

I wasn't, I wasn't very I grand scale.

I wasn't like a like a showstopper.

I'm not someone, I wasn't someone to write home to, but I was a local and I guess he liked my vibe.

42:06

Well, I mean, yeah, clearly you're committed.

Like, hey, if I say I'm going to commit to this, like to a team, I'm going to do it.

I'm going to show up, I'm going to do the work.

I feel like that's got to be half the battle for a coach.

Oh yeah.

Maybe not in college as much, but yeah.

And my college coach, million times the respect for him.

42:24

Yeah, he gave me a chance and I tried to make it pay off as much as I could.

Yeah.

So how did you end up running in college?

What was that process like?

How I end up so the college go to coaching college is up the way from Concord.

So he'd go to like the meets and he'd he'd have like an eye on like an athlete.

42:42

He'd go to be like, how are you?

How are you feeling for a Ray Da da Da.

He had my card.

If you if you want to talk at first he gave me a card.

I lost it like the next so I I'd never messaged him and then a little later on and like a later meet one of his athletes at the time he was like, Hey, it's out.

42:59

How's it going?

Do you have a card?

I was like, I don't have a card.

Like, OK, I thought, I thought Ruston would have given you a card.

And I was like, no, I don't know.

You never gave me a card.

So I got another card, and eventually Ruston and I started talking.

43:15

Named Ruston.

Nice.

OK, when you start talking.

And he'd be like, you should come out, join us for practice, get to know the people, get another program.

You're like, sure, I'll pull up.

I'll drive over for a day, see what's up, get a tour of the campus, maybe drawing for like a meal or something.

Yeah.

43:31

After a few times of him inviting me out, I was like, OK, yeah, yeah, I'm liking this.

This seemed pretty cool.

Yeah.

So did you get a full ride ride to run?

I did not get a full ride.

OK, no SO.

What did he, what did he pay for?

Yeah, he gave me some, he gave me some.

43:46

He gave me enough money that I'd be like, OK, yeah, that worked out.

That's good.

That's funny.

Yeah.

Hey, quick reminder that this episode is brought to you by Athlete Bouquets.

You can shop for gifts for the marathoner or runner in your life by visiting athletebouquets.com and use the code podcast for 10% off your order.

44:12

So did you have like again, being in that area, did you always think you'd go to Goshen College because it was close?

Did you always know you would go to college?

Were there other universities you had your like eyes on as your friends were deciding where they would go?

Right, right.

44:29

I mean, I was kind.

I was kind of kind of like I didn't really know what I wanted to do after.

I was like, I I want to see if I can continue running, but like, I didn't have any clue what level.

I wasn't sure what to expect.

I've been checking out trying university.

Yeah, OK.

44:45

And my high school coach, they had graduated from Purdue to like, if I could run for Purdue, that'd be pretty good.

But I didn't meet their I didn't meet their standard, but because I was a little more like a like a far not far fetched, a little a little further of a goal.

45:04

But yeah, so then I told I told Ross to knob while I'm thinking about trying.

He was like, oh, well, you should get Tri Goshen college.

We're better.

Yeah, there we.

Go Yeah, cool.

What is the size difference do you know between Goshen and Trying?

Are they about the same size?

No, I think trying is like way bigger.

45:19

Goshen is extremely small.

OK, I wasn't sure I've heard of both of them so but they're both where is trying university?

Angola out east of Fort, out east of Goshen, north of 4th Wayne by like maybe now or maybe.

45:34

OK.

So it's like, but it's not that's not Michigan.

That's still Indiana Angel.

It's still Indiana, yeah.

It's really close, probably to Michigan then if it's in.

Yeah, yeah, OK.

OK.

But yeah, so Goshen College, Goshen College ran, you run all four years in college.

Ran all four years and an extra half an extra season on the end.

45:52

OK, how'd that happen?

Oh, I got, I was in a traffic accident my senior year.

That's right.

And yeah, it put me out for the season.

I didn't get any races in and.

So they let you do another season because of that?

Yeah, I didn't realize that that would be the case.

46:08

That's interesting.

I think they let me do it because it was a COVID year.

Like I we I saved an eligibility, yeah, or I got an extra season of eligibility, something allowed to do to here.

OK.

But I'm sure, I'm sure I could have filed for medical hardship.

Yes.

Well, yeah, let's talk about that.

46:25

Yeah, so you got hit by a pickup truck while you're on your bike?

I did get hit by a pickup truck while I was on the bike.

Which?

Is like, I feel like a lot of people, a lot of runners, a lot of cyclists, like one of the number one fears like while you're out.

Running.

Is that you?

Encounter a vehicle.

46:41

Right, right.

So how the heck did that happen, Sal?

What happened?

It was my senior year, senior year of college.

Yeah, senior year.

We had.

We had already gone through summer training.

We had started the season.

We had one race and I had been, I had been kind of feeling a little ache or a little something right here, my heel like, hey, Russ.

47:05

And you know, we just raced, but I'm feeling a little beat.

Maybe I can take like a cross training day, go on a bike.

And he was like, sure.

So there's a trail that goes from Goshen all the way up to Shipshewana.

Do you know where that is?

Yeah, in theory.

47:20

OK.

Well, it's like 18 mile trail up north, like a few traffic crossings but nothing too crazy.

But it's very wooded.

You can't really like see.

OK, is Shipshawana where like all that, like that super Amish?

Country, it's super.

Amish country super, I mean.

I know like that region still has some Amish but like Shipshewana is like.

47:39

Super.

Yeah, yeah.

OK.

So that day it was a workout, going to be a running workout.

So they all convert a bike cycling workout, like 5 minutes on one minute recovery.

Yeah, for however long.

So I go out, I'm going out on a trail.

47:56

Eventually I turn around coming back past my teammates.

They're on the way out.

Hey, whatever, keep going.

Then I'm coming up, I'm on and on Rep and I'm coming up to a crossing and this is my fault.

I'm like, I don't think I don't hear any cars going.

48:12

I'm not going to full on stop and check, but I'll like, you know, tap the brakes a little bit, try to hear out, you know, peek my ear out, see if I can hear like anything coming, coming out to it last second.

I'm like, you know what, I'm going to stop.

I, I, I gripped the brake.

48:30

I hear like the squeak of the tires, but I'm still like sliding out.

Look to my right and I see the car coming.

Have enough time to look down.

Then I then I blacked out.

I don't know what happened after but I know getting hit and I woke up like a few hours later in the hospital.

Jeez.

48:48

Yeah.

Did you have your did you have a phone on you?

You probably did you're it's like.

Or no, I did but like I.

Don't.

You couldn't do anything.

I couldn't do anything and I like I was awake, like my coach told me I was awake and talking, but I don't remember, don't remember.

But I guess he said like now do you have a phone?

49:05

I don't know.

I don't know what was going through my mind, but I was like, no, I don't remember telling him no.

But in any case, that wouldn't matter could it was shattered and.

I mean, they knew who like at least.

So how did your coach end up there, I wonder?

So did they hear the accident happen?

Like they were all like they were all doing a workout at the same time.

49:22

It's like the men's team, they were a little more out.

The women's team, my coach was running with them.

They were on their way out, ended up catching up and everyone just converged right where I was.

So did they see it happen?

I know one of my teammates saw it.

Oh my God.

That'd be so crazy.

49:39

Yeah, yeah.

But like so it wasn't like a direct hit.

It was like the front half of my bike, not like but so then my teammate that saw he was on like the that end, but he didn't see.

Like what?

49:54

Like what had happened, Right, right.

So it I mean, he was like.

But he saw, like, first I was biking.

No, I'm not.

Yeah.

And then there were squeaks of tires and then there's no more biking.

Yeah, that's so scary.

And then you black out and wake up in the hospital is like terrifying to not have like any idea what was going.

50:12

On right, right, right.

So when you wake up, I mean, do you remember when you woke up?

Like, more or less.

I mean, I was on drugs.

They put me on drugs.

Yeah, I know.

It's still a little fuzzy.

Yeah.

And I had like a nasty concussion, as you can imagine.

Right.

And so was do you remember it?

50:28

Was your mom there like when you woke up?

I would, I would.

Believe so, yeah, they she showed up at some point.

I don't know if she was in the beginning and my sister were there.

Yeah, that's so scary.

So what was the extent of your injuries from the accident?

So I lost a few teeth.

I broke in most of the rib right here on the right side.

50:51

I had broken my collarbone right here and I had like a few.

I had bruised my lung.

Interesting.

Bruised my lung, yeah.

Probably from all the rib like the rib issues, yeah.

Probably.

Geez.

And that's it.

51:06

And then like a concussion.

And a concussion, yeah, I was this concussion because I didn't think I had a concussion until later on.

Yeah.

But yeah.

So is that why you have a tooth that's like?

Yeah.

That's from the accident.

That's so annoying.

Yeah, my smile isn't that bright anymore.

51:24

Yeah, gosh, losing teeth got in an accent.

That's wild.

Do it too.

Like you wake up and like look at yourself and you're like, wow.

Yeah, I mean, that was like 4 years ago at this point.

I'm like, you know what?

It happened.

Well, who?

Yeah, I mean, you are alive too.

51:41

Yeah, but I just.

That's a lot to process when you're and it's your senior year.

Yeah, you've already been through the COVID shit.

Right, right.

And I, I spent how many years training for this peak moment of my college career?

Yeah.

I, I had plans like, oh, afterwards I'm going to try to focus on like a professional career.

51:57

Maybe.

Maybe, Yeah.

But yeah.

And then, yeah.

Well, I'm sorry that happened to you.

That's crazy.

Oh, thank you.

Yeah, I'm glad you were able to recover and have a season, but how, how was it getting back after that?

52:13

Like how long does a blue bruised lung last for?

I mean, I don't exactly know when it would heal, but every now and then during like when I'd be running, it'd be like hurt.

It would start to hurt a little bit.

It was.

Like an aching pain like.

More of an aching pain, yeah.

So I got to like, stop and walk during the run.

52:29

Just walk back.

But yeah.

And even then I was still like, I was still out out for like a few months directly after.

Yeah, because you had to let your.

Yeah.

Body recover.

Heal.

Do you like with your collarbone?

Then did you have to wear like a sling?

52:45

Was there like a sling situation?

Yeah, I got sling, but then I also got surgery to put like the little plate.

OK, Yeah, yeah, my husband broke his collarbone, I think, playing football when he was in high school or somewhere around there.

But like, it's never been the, like, you can tell the difference.

Like, I don't know if it was not that it was like it just didn't heal it.

53:03

It's not like it's messed up necessarily, but like if you look at him, you can tell.

So yeah, getting screws and stuff in there probably helped it heal nicely at least.

Well, you know that collar bones are like, meant to break, right?

I didn't know.

That they're fragile enough to break because if they don't, then you're just getting all the shock into your into your neck.

53:24

Interesting.

That was pretty.

That was pretty crazy.

When I first learned, I was like, whoa, I was that I was that close.

Yeah.

I mean, it takes just like, yeah, inches or like just a little bit of a difference for that to be.

Right, right.

Different.

53:40

Did it change your mindset?

Yes, well, I was like I said, at the end of high school I was, I was getting cocky.

Through college I got even more so yeah.

So then like, and it's like going into my senior year, I had this plan.

I was like, oh, I'm going to be all all American at nationals.

53:59

I'm going to run a sub whatever, a sub 30 and a 10K.

I'm going to do all these things.

I'm going to be fantastic.

And I was like, what?

My plans changed.

I this is I didn't account for this to happen.

Right.

And then you literally, yeah, get hit by a truck.

Great.

Yeah, yeah.

But.

54:15

Did you go through any periods where your like, mental health suffered as a result, like feeling depressed because you're like, great, like, this thing that you love was like taken away from you for a period of time and then you get back.

I mean, obviously you're not going to be like back to the level that you were at that you'd worked so hard to be at.

54:30

Right, right.

Yeah.

I mean, it definitely.

It makes me, it made me like reassess my goals.

And there was a time I was kind of like, you know what, maybe maybe close out my chapter running, I can focus on something else, focus on my professional career or one of that.

Yeah.

But then eventually in when I came back for that extra season, I was like, you know what?

54:50

I don't care about the winning.

I don't care if I go to the nationals or anything.

I just want to have fun.

I want to race in a way that I enjoy.

So all those races I would like go out really fast.

I would just kind of like lean into whatever I enjoy to do.

Yeah.

And that's more or less that's mostly what I'm trying to carry now.

I'm doing it for the fun.

55:05

I don't care if I win.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you're still, you're still placing, which is just like.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you can't.

I feel like it's hard to lose that competitive spirit, but it's equally hard to really focus on the enjoyment.

At least it has been for me.

I'm competitive with myself, right?

55:22

With like other people, really, right?

But it's hard not to be.

But I've really learned to enjoy it and it's been so much more fun and I think I perform better as a result.

Right, right.

Which is kind of interesting.

Right, right.

Yeah.

I mean, the Ragnar, you're like, I don't know how competitive we were not.

55:40

Well, I don't either.

Yeah, that's good, right?

So then like, yeah, Ragnars are fun.

That sounds really fun.

Yeah, yeah, it was such an adventure.

But yeah, our group, we, there were 90 teams, I guess.

And then there were 13 in our age group, which I don't know how they create age groups because we were anywhere from.

55:56

I'm actually not sure how old our youngest woman would have been, like maybe.

Call it 30 to like. 40 plus so it's kind of like do they just I guess maybe they add up all your ages and just.

Average.

It out, I don't know, but yeah, we were third in our age group, which was cool.

We set out really to have fun.

56:13

I mean, we had such a variety of different levels of talent, if you want to call it that, but it was really fun.

And yeah, focusing on the enjoyment really allows me to not take myself so seriously.

Right, which is?

Hard, but yeah, which is really good, yeah.

No, Yeah, just hanging with your gang in a van.

56:31

That sounds so fun.

Like you could.

Have gone for a girls weekend and like Napa or something but Nope, Nope.

We're going to sleep in a van.

Right, Right.

Perfect.

Yeah.

So, OK, so you make it through that final season in college.

Was there a time in college where you realized, hey, I want to like, I know what I want to do in terms of like, I mean, they make you pick a major, but you study, you study computer science.

56:54

Computer science, yeah.

What's it called?

Well, another edition of another positive of that extra half semester.

I was able to like dial in a little more into my computer science background.

I was able to, I don't know if I'd say like learn more, but like understand more how like professional computer science works, how like the jobs.

57:13

Work.

Yeah, that's helpful.

Which I don't know if I would have been ready for at the end of my fourth year.

Right.

Yeah, well, especially getting like all the distraction of an injury like that had to take away somewhat from academics too 'cause you're, I don't know, pretty hard computer science.

57:28

Do you think that you, how did you fall into that?

Like video games, Do you think that kind of played?

Into it, I think.

I think how?

The heck did this?

Somebody build this?

Right, right.

Yeah.

I think video games definitely had a big plus on it.

Well before computer science, I'd major engineering, physics, OK, but the math got too hard.

57:47

Like you know what?

Maybe not.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Computer science we got.

Well, I like, you know, like making stuff.

I like taking up projects, making, giving me a pile of whatevers and making something at least kind of cool.

Yeah.

And then with computer science, yeah, I get to do software development, web development, I think.

58:04

I still think it's fun.

Yeah, and it's such a, it's such a good field to be in because people need good developers.

All the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know if you know this, but I worked in software for most of my career.

Really.

Yeah, I was not not a developer.

I took a couple classes in college but and my husband and I taught at coding club a while.

58:21

Cool, which is.

Really fun to teach kids how to use scratch.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Which isn't really, I mean doesn't count for adults obviously necessarily.

But yeah, I mean, yeah, always looking for good developers.

That's great.

I.

Work for a Health Network now.

Beacon Health System health, it's like up northern Indiana, we got placed in South Bend, a hospital in Alcar hospital in Bremen, one in Michigan.

58:46

Okay.

All that kind of you get to work from home.

I do get to I was.

Going to say as a developer, I mean notoriously for anyone not in like software developers are notorious for being like somewhat introverted.

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can still fit into the I'm the best of both worlds.

I can be extroverted runner going out to this, but I can also be a shot in.

59:05

Yeah, believe it or not, Sal, I'm the same way.

Yeah, yeah.

Like I I'm friendly like and I can talk to people, but I get my energy from being alone.

Right, right.

I'll be.

You got what, three kids?

I'm sure you don't get that to watch once.

You count my dog, then we'll go for three.

59:21

But yeah, only two.

Only two.

But yeah.

So I, yeah, at the end of the day, all I want is to like, literally just like sit by myself, to just like be alone.

I do get to be alone a lot during the day, which also kind of fuels me.

Or like running.

I tend to run by myself, not necessarily on purpose, more so because my schedule is.

59:39

Weird.

So or like more flexible than most people.

So yeah, well, so now you work in software and you somehow find time to continue like doing all these races.

So now I want to tell, I want you to tell race stories.

Let's talk about some of the races you've done.

1:00:00

Races you hope to do like I just want to hear I have found at least as many as I could find.

And you've done a triathlon Rome we got to still talk about.

So what was so after you did that?

The Q Elite half marathon.

Q Elite half marathon.

1:00:15

Is that then did you train to race a full marathon after that?

Or when did a full marathon come into the picture?

Well, the full marathon only came like after I graduate or in my in my senior year or no, on that 5th, on that fifth season, OK.

I was like, you know what?

1:00:31

I I'll sign up for Carmel.

Sure.

We'll see what happens.

Sure.

I roll the dice.

Yeah.

See now.

Yeah.

See how things go OK.

And how did you train?

How did you figure out like what you should do to train?

Like I, I've picked stuff up over the years for my coach especially.

1:00:46

I've always, I've always been open about asking like, why are we doing this, Ruston?

And he'll be like, I don't know, actually we shouldn't be doing that and change stuff up.

And he's always been really accepted about that and really informational.

I could like if I ask him why are we doing this he'll give me a full on explanation like how the.

1:01:02

Example of that, like why are we running really slow today?

Or you know 'cause we need to rest.

That's important.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I've always asked him, like, what other training philosophies are there?

He'll give me a list of different coaches that have different methodologies.

1:01:17

I'm like, OK, these are kind of cool.

Let me look into that a little more on my own time.

Yeah.

OK.

So did you just then kind of pick one of those and roll with it for your first full?

I mean, for my first full I was still, I was still kind of like I didn't have like a set thing.

1:01:34

It was just like, OK, let me finish out the cross country season and then just add on some miles, get some more miles and more like then go for it.

Do you remember how far you ran before that first full marathon?

Like my my first what?

Was your longest run.

Probably a 20.

1:01:52

OK, yeah, probably.

I think it would have been like a 20, yeah.

That's kind of like the, I would say typical in air quotes, like, you know, for a marathon training, you're supposed to get up to at least 20.

And then I've.

I've talked to people.

A young man I interviewed recently, it was like, yeah, I ran 13 miles before my.

1:02:08

First time and I was.

Like, OK, that's insane to me to think about, but you know, to each their own.

He likes the surprise, I guess.

I guess I mean we're just can like is so mentally tough because I can't imagine running past that and be like this is the furthest I've ever ran in my life and I still have equally as far again.

1:02:26

I'm just, I just got to do that twice.

Yeah, that that's on paper.

That's all it is.

Just do that twice.

Yeah.

So you, when did you graduate from college?

What year was it?

21/21/21.

And so 21 you ran then the 22 Carmel you mentioned earlier.

Yes, OK.

And that was your first ever marathon.

1:02:42

Exactly, Yeah.

And then you're like, OK, I liked that.

Yeah.

I mean, I mean, it hurt.

I mean, I'm.

Never running again.

I liked it in the same way that anyone else like the marathon.

I like the yeah, I like the struggle.

I like the work and it I really like part like I've run the marathon.

1:02:59

I can look back and think like I can change this to my training.

I can work on this and like it's like a big project.

I can just change things on on the way and try stuff out.

When it when it really clicked, that's like, oh, OK, that was really good.

Let me do it again.

Yeah, let's see if I can recreate that.

That's the hard part, is that like there's so many variables.

1:03:16

Yeah, yeah.

That come together for a race that it's like, oh, I I want to tweak this and then all of a sudden then you get to race day and the weather sucks so.

You're like, cool.

OK, guess we'll just ride through that.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

OK.

So Carmel was your first full and then and then what?

1:03:33

What other races have you done?

No, I did Carmel.

That was April.

That November I did a race out in Boulder called the Boulder Well Boulder Marathon.

But.

Is it the Boulder Thon?

Boulder Thon, Yeah.

They just that.

It just happened like yesterday, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

1:03:48

What day is it?

It just happened.

Yeah.

Boulder Thon.

Yeah, that's cool.

Is that the first time you'd really done?

I'm assuming there's elevation.

Oh yeah, it kicked.

My it kicked.

It kicked my ass pretty bad.

Yeah, not just being at elevation either, like then you're like at elevation and then you're like running.

1:04:06

Yeah, and I'm racing.

Yeah, not just running, racing, yeah.

OK, I'm in what?

Distance did you do there?

The marathon, the full.

OK, the full yeah, yeah, did.

You train.

How did you train differently for that?

I mean, I committed more to a training plan.

What was his name?

Renato Canova.

1:04:21

Do you know that know that name?

Oh, well, he's like he has he in Italian coach.

He trained like 2O marathoners and all that.

OK.

And his his methodology, I believe is more like adapting to workloads to just piling on a lot of stuff.

Keep doing it and then you'll adapt to it.

1:04:38

OK.

Like he he's also very big on like like a lot of like a lot of long runs at like just nearly race pace.

OK, those those ones got those ones under hefty.

Yeah, that sounds.

1:04:54

Terrifying.

And then like at some point in like the training cycle, it'll be like a 26 mile day, but like broken up into two workouts.

Yeah.

At how is it?

It's like the first 6 miles?

Wait no, the first 7 miles of the first workout is at half marathon or no at like tempo pace. second-half of that half marathon pace the second workout in the day.

1:05:17

The first half would be half marathon pace, the second-half would be like 10K repeat.

That is.

Hard.

Yeah, Yeah.

And how did you did you fit in hills somehow?

There, there aren't many hills out in out in northern Indiana.

There's like 2 distinct hills in Goshen.

That's like, hey, I'm going to do hills.

1:05:33

Oh, you're going to be at, you're going to be at this hill.

Yeah, I am going to be at that hill.

You just like run up and down it.

Yeah, just Hill Springs in the middle of the week.

Yeah.

And I was pretty avid on like lifting.

So I'd like to think a lot of that lifting supplemented instead of the hills whenever I didn't do them.

Yeah, that's smart.

1:05:49

OK, so Boulder Thon.

Yeah, that's rough.

Oh, yeah, So I didn't know.

So how was it?

I'd gone out the week the week before and stayed at a friend's house.

OK, that's good.

Oh, yeah.

So I was able to activate a little more.

Race day comes.

It starts out like the Boulder Reservoir at like 7:00 AM OK, pitch black.

1:06:11

Everyone's just kind of wandering around in the dark getting ready for the race.

I like get ready.

I like like my little sting, like on my shorts, all that put it.

Put the like they gave you like a bag to get your stuff after.

Put that in the thing at the race line.

1:06:26

They had to put out like a heat sheet like about people that will are like the elite group.

So I like there were like 20 people that were supposedly going to be like pretty fast.

I like, OK, wherever that group is, I'll just stick on them.

Well, at the starting line, the half marathoners and the full marathoners are at the same time.

1:06:44

So there's like tons of half marathoners are going to be ripping like a lot faster.

And I'm like right there, race starts and we all run together for like a like a mile.

And then the half marathoners are going to split up and full marathoners are going to keep going out into like the country.

So I'm like, OK, we're going to split up and I'll be able to find my group, find out who the marathoners is because I really didn't know.

1:07:08

They split up two people ahead of me.

That's all there is.

Look back and no one, no one behind me for like a good while.

I'm like, oh, I guess I'll just run with these two people.

They're they're a lot better than I was.

So I stick with them.

We're ripping like five 30s for like, probably like I'm able to stick with them for like 6 miles.

1:07:32

And then I'm like, you know what?

They and it, it got like really hilly.

So after every hill they put a gap on me.

I'd be able to catch up.

But then the time I get up another hill, they put a gap.

And yeah, then as the sun started coming up, the heat was just bearing down on me.

1:07:51

Oh, it it, it, it was a it was a mental, it was a mental race more than anything, just staying in it eventually that I lost them.

They like went a lot faster than I did.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, we start going towards Listed, toward Boulder, and we're like, you know, still out on the Country Rd.

1:08:08

Yeah.

Still out on the country Rd. still out in the field and all that.

Very beautiful race.

Beautiful race.

It was so nice.

Yeah.

But during that race, at some point I did like stop a few times, just doubled overheaving, then staying right back up.

1:08:25

And then that's that's when I noticed that like the altitude was starting to get to me.

My breathing wasn't quite.

Yeah, the same like, yeah.

It wasn't the same as Goshen IN, right?

Yeah.

And then like we start running through town going like make it slowly and making our way towards Boulder, Boulder downtown, where the finish line is.

1:08:46

And yeah, the rest, I ended up finishing like a 2:45, something like that.

Yeah, that was, that was, yeah, that was, that was the toughest race I've done so far.

So have you ever run a marathon that was over three hours?

No, OK, I haven't.

1:09:04

That's pretty legit.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

Wow, 245, that's amazing.

Thank you.

I mean, just all things considered, like picturing, yeah, going out to Boulder from Goshen IN the full marathon is, is crazy.

So then.

So then what was next after that?

1:09:22

That would have been That was in 2022.

Next after that was Rome in February.

How did that?

Happen.

Close my eyes.

Throw a dart on the board.

Landed on Rome.

I was like, OK, cool.

Wait, literally.

1:09:37

No, not literally.

Because that'd.

Be really cool, right?

Yeah.

Really.

In the ocean.

I mean, I do want to start.

I want to try that at some point to see where I end up.

Yeah.

And it was like, oh, Rome's pretty cool.

I'd be down to see it.

Yeah.

But yeah, I had gone, yeah, that one I was a little more ready for.

1:09:54

I was a little more ready like pee.

You can throw it on a like a faster, faster time.

What?

Time of year is that.

March, February or March?

OK.

OK.

So then I hit up on my friends.

I'm like, hey, you want to go to Rome?

Sure, I'm down.

So we end up looking to flight.

1:10:10

We went out like a week early and we were going to stay like a few days after the race.

We fly and it was like 9 hour flight or something like that.

It was like a 2 hour layover in France.

But then we went out public transportation out there.

1:10:30

Amazing, very, very good public translation.

We and like the Airbnb we got.

We were like right next to the the terminal where all like the buses start at, but it was still like so much walking.

Yeah, I was going to say going out a week before and I just picture things you might want to do before and it's it is a lot of.

1:10:52

Walking like we we got to go see the Colosseum, we got to go see the the Vatican, we got to see the Pantheon, the.

Trevi Fountain.

Trevi Fountain, the Spanish Steps, all that.

So we were walking so much the day leading up to the day before we'd be on the train and I've I got us there.

1:11:10

There, there weren't many seats, so I'd be just squatting right there or like sitting on the floor like I can't Irving, I cannot stand.

I'm I'm tired.

Yeah, I need to save these legs.

Yeah, yeah.

But I mean, like you like Rome has like pasta pizza or Italy pasta pizza sensational.

1:11:27

So much of it we we had we had wanted to go to like more like specifically Roman dishes, but I was like, you know what?

I don't want to risk take having.

Just the simplicity and how good pizza and pasta.

Is there?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you might as well just wait for after, like go back again.

1:11:44

Right, right.

Yeah, yeah.

You out there or am I imagining that?

No, I haven't.

I have not done an international race, OK, but I've travelled a lot in Europe.

Right travelled, I mean, Yeah, I've.

Been to Rome several times, in fact my husband and I when we went we celebrated our first anniversary.

1:12:01

So this was like 9 years ago.

We got there to Rome and there was some sort of race and I can't remember if it was like a I don't know, but there was a like a race happening and I was like, Oh my gosh, I wish I would have known.

Done it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But no, I have not yet, but I would love to.

1:12:17

Oh man, yeah, you said it was really nice.

Yeah.

How was the weather that time of year there?

Weather it's pretty it's pretty nice.

So we were like in like downtown, like the main area, OK run with like the tall, like the small sidewalks and the tall buildings.

1:12:33

So it's pretty cool.

The roads didn't heat up too much, OK, But The funny thing is, so we were in like the like the, you know, like you would think like not not decrepit, but like ancient buildings, like everything, like cobblestone all that well.

That's what I'm picturing, yeah.

1:12:49

Well, that was like the where we stayed.

The Expo was like down South a little more.

We took the train, came out completely modern, 44 lane roads, all that skyscrapers.

It was, it was.

It was really weird.

I've never been, I've not been to that part of Rome.

1:13:04

It was, it was, it was.

It was hilarious.

Yeah, you're like, did we just, like, go to an entirely different country?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So you're like in a normal like Expo, like center, probably.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, but the Expo Expo was huge and at the Expo, so I tried.

1:13:20

Do you know like the goo?

Yeah.

Gu brand, Yep.

I was like, that's, yeah, that's usually what I usually what I use.

They didn't have it there.

I, I maybe it's just like an American thing, or maybe it's like not specifically a Rome thing.

I don't, I mean, I doubt it.

I doubt it.

I but I don't know why they didn't have it there.

1:13:36

I, we had gone to some sports stores.

We looked around, couldn't find anything.

So then I was like, OK, I guess I got to pick a random one.

Yep, that's.

Terrifying.

Yes, but at the Expo there was this one.

I cannot remember the name of it.

1:13:52

Have not seen any promotion.

I don't remember the look of it.

Nothing.

It was sensational.

It nectar from the gods amazing.

It was like a water, but like kind of the kind of like more.

What's the word something like kind of not spicy.

1:14:08

Oh, citrus like it's pretty like sour.

No, I I don't know what I'm thinking, but it was like sweet enough, like a good a good level of sweet.

It was like a water went down so easy, Made me feel amazing.

1:14:25

But I have not been able to find it.

I do not know what the name was.

That's sad.

No promotion.

Yeah.

So like, I'm gonna I.

No, in my head I'm gonna be chasing that feeling forever.

Or you'll just have to like troll their Instagram when around race time and see if you can see any of the.

I've tried, I've tried, I've tried.

1:14:41

I'm.

I'm gonna have to go back out before that rage.

You have to find that just.

Gonna have to go find it again.

Yeah, that's so funny.

I'm I'm surprised they don't have it there.

Goo is not an American thing.

They have it all over the.

World, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I don't.

I don't know.

That's interesting.

May I didn't look enough.

1:14:57

I don't know.

I can.

I can entertain that as well.

That was my fault.

Yeah, yeah, that's crazy.

OK.

And so then, did you eat pizza or pasta or both?

All of it.

All of it.

Oh my gosh, yeah.

Amazing.

And then the race itself was how much of it was like cobblestone streets and how much of it was like normal streets.

1:15:18

So the race it starts in like the pretty close to the city center, OK, you go out up north by like where the where the Rome Olympic Stadium is went out by there, goes back towards state centre along the water, then goes out to like that modern part that I was talking about that's right back.

1:15:37

It's a big circle.

So probably like 8070% of it was Kabul.

That was kind of, that was kind of goofy because you're stepping and it's like.

That's really tricky because you, I would imagine, got to be really kind of watching.

1:15:54

Oh yeah, got to be ready.

I mean, it's hard enough walking on cobblestones, let alone running that far, right?

Right.

OK.

OK.

And then do they have the same kind of setup with like aid stations and water kind of thing?

They were pretty.

They were pretty on it with the aid station, the water.

1:16:10

Yeah.

Like, they were a good number of them.

Like, I never thought, like, oh, I've never seen one again.

I'm going to die.

Yeah.

That's good.

And because I in Berlin, I know that they have like plastic cups is like one thing that throws people off if they didn't know.

That OK, right?

So you can't like bend it like you would the paperwork.

1:16:27

So you just have to know that.

So you can maybe practice the animal, not like get it down the wrong tube or whatever, but that's good.

OK.

And so how was the race overall?

Race Overall race was amazing.

So before the before the race starts, they do like the Italian national anthem and they then they had jets flying over screaming, just bumps.

1:16:49

Yeah, it was so very nice.

Yeah.

And so the race starts.

I don't remember it was it started like right next to like a like a massive cathedral.

OK, I usually thought.

Which is like a million of those in Rome.

Yeah, but this one was like the main.

1:17:06

I think it was like one of the main ones.

Beautiful building everything.

Everything was so beautiful.

It was.

Not the Vatican.

It wasn't the Vatican.

I don't think they did this year, but in previous years or or my year, but in previous years they've gotten like a blessing from the Pope the day before at at when it turned.

1:17:23

Yeah.

But I don't think they did it Catholic.

I'm not OK.

I am so like, yeah, that's yeah, that's why I've been to Rome so many.

Times, right, Right, right.

Yeah, but so race starts fairly crowded.

I'm in like the front, the S group they called it, but just like the the league group.

1:17:40

OK.

So then we go out running like oh man, the I I see like so the winner ended up finishing like a 20420205 or something like that.

So then right off the bat these people go ripping and like I thought, I thought I was pretty good.

1:17:57

These guys are so much faster.

That was really cool.

Whole city shut down for the race and well, think about you got so you got people that are fans of the race, you got locals that are watching the race and you got all the tourists that are going to be there anyway.

1:18:13

Yeah, who are probably actually pissed if they.

Yeah, like, yeah, I.

Might as well cheer, yeah?

Yeah, so, so many people, everybody chanting.

I felt so nice and like we were, yeah, the paths were taken.

It's like really nice path, really well taken care of.

1:18:30

Do you have, did you run by any of the big like did you run by the Coliseum?

Yeah, we we started by the Coliseum.

That's so cool.

Yeah, we saw all.

We ran by the fountain, we ran by the Spanish Steps.

OK, we saw all, but we ran up towards the stadium, like I just said, the Olympic Stadium and it was so nice and and the course is pretty comparable to caramel, I'd say.

1:18:54

So it's already going to be like a pretty fast course.

Yeah, so not like, so not really too much elevation to speak of.

Right, right.

Yeah, pretty, pretty flat.

Maybe like one part with a little that like blew uphill.

How well organized was it?

Because, you know, I picture Italians just suck at organizing things.

1:19:11

It was very.

Like running things on time.

Right, right.

I got you.

No, it was very well organized, like started directly when we thought you would start.

They must use it.

They must outsource the maybe, I'm sorry, Italians, but yeah, no, it's like it's, yeah, Italians are notorious for just kind of being so like laid back, I should say.

1:19:32

I didn't know that, but.

But for a race, that's good.

Right.

It's very well put on.

I think I, I spent like so they also had the marathon relay going on at the same time.

OK, so I what's?

That.

It's like they split up the marathons like groups of four or three.

1:19:49

Yeah, that's.

Cool.

Yeah, but it was a little trippy.

Every now and then I'd be running and I'm I'd be going like what, 4 like high four 50s, which I know isn't like for marathon isn't like.

Behind or I'm moving pretty good, then then the guy comes ripping past me.

1:20:05

I'm like, what?

Because I didn't know the relay was going on.

I thought I was just a marathon and I was like, Dang.

That is so confusing, like the same thing where you have the guy at Carmel start and you didn't realize there was somebody else that had started like after you that.

1:20:22

Yeah, exactly.

That would be really messed.

Up.

It was trippy.

And then later in the race I realized be like, I'd see like the corral of like the third leg waiting up, waiting.

OK, I got to know what's happening now.

Cool, well at least you realize that at least midstream and not like all the way after because that would be a long time of thinking you're getting passed by people that aren't actually really passing you.

1:20:43

Right, right.

But then, yeah, later in the race, I was still like this one, I paced a lot better than I had raced my paced my other racing.

So I was still feeling pretty strong.

And through the whole whole time, I would start like, you know, waving to the crowd, getting them hyped up and they'd respond.

1:20:59

But at one point, at one point I ran past like a group I like, stuck my hand out and no one high fived.

I was like, oh, OK.

You're.

Like, OK, cool.

Dang, there goes my, there goes my energy.

Yeah.

Thanks for that.

Yeah, but very beautiful chords.

Tons of tons of fans.

I loved it so much and then so I finished when I I finished like a 236.

1:21:21

OK, and one thing I'm upset about is like on the video, they they live live streamed all of it.

They like got the finishers at around the time for like a full minute where I would have been finishing.

They had changed the camera to like crowning the winners and was like there's a block of where I would have been that they don't have the video.

1:21:41

Oh, that's.

Sad.

Yeah.

Well, at least you were that close to the winners, I mean.

Yeah, Yeah, yeah, you're right.

You're.

Right versus me.

Like I picture when I run the indie mini, I'm usually at the track around the time the winners I'm like halfway done.

And then right, right, right in the winner.

1:21:58

And I'm like, oh, look, right, right.

They display, I don't know the chords.

I don't know enough about indie.

Yeah, so they just, they have the Jumbotrons inside the Speedway will show the finish line or sometimes like the camera on the winner because I have in faster minis that I've done not seen the winner, but usually I'm usually in the track the time that the winners finish.

1:22:18

And so then you look up and you're like, good job, man, just like an hour behind you.

Right, right.

Nice.

Yeah, wow, what a cool experience to run in Rome.

And you finished 30th.

I finished 30th.

Yeah, 30th for men.

One woman beat me.

But.

OK.

And how many runners?

I think no.

1:22:36

I think closer to like 15,000.

I think that's got to.

Be a big I picture Rome.

You've got to.

It's got to be a pretty big race.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And it was my, this is the first time I was like, you know what?

I'm I'm, I'm kind of good.

I'm yeah, like that.

I'm pretty impressed with my, I was the first time I was like really genuine, like really impressed myself.

1:22:54

Like I might be actually, well, yeah, I'm actually pretty strong, a strong runner.

So I kind of like rejuvenated some of my passion that maybe I've lost over the years.

Yeah, that's wow.

That's really.

Cool.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yeah, Rome.

1:23:09

And then you got to top that.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, well, like another note.

Experience wise not like place.

Right, right.

Yeah.

But then another note about after Rome, so like the like there's a lot of people the starting like corral where everyone goes is like easily 1/2 mile long.

1:23:25

Yeah.

So after race to get out of the corral, you have to go back through it.

And I, I, I didn't really finish with anyone like close in front, close behind.

So I'm just walking alone in this long out like aisle of of just me.

1:23:40

I, I didn't know throwing out for the first time after race because because tangy it might be the word for that jail.

I'm talking about tangy SO.

It was great, made you feel great, but then you threw up.

Yeah, yeah, I'll do that.

I don't care.

You're like, as long as I had a great race.

Yeah, I did.

I ran.

Well, yeah, but then I'm walking for like half a mile.

1:23:57

I got, I got to take a break every now and then immediately, but yeah, I'm topping that race.

You said right, Yeah.

I had gotten into New York, NY City Marathon.

I saw that you did, and then you didn't end up running.

1:24:12

I didn't end up running.

OK, no.

So after Rome, pretty probably pretty too quickly after I did another half marathon and that I ended up tearing up my Achilles.

I don't think I'd ready.

I messed myself up.

So then over a year, over the rest of that year, it was kind of like on and off injury.

1:24:31

I think I probably, I think I took myself too seriously.

I was like, ah, if I got to do New York, I got to run fast.

And I don't think I got that.

Yeah, I do.

I do kind of regret doing that because, well, it's not that I'm not, it's not that serious.

I got to have, I'm here to have fun.

1:24:47

I love racing.

Yeah, not the fast part.

Yeah, Yeah, that's hard.

Well, after coming off an experience like you had in Rome, where you're like, hey, I can do this.

I'm good.

Like, I could see why you'd want to do well or, you know, race.

But yeah, New York.

1:25:02

Right.

Yeah.

That is one to.

I mean, yeah, 'cause it's.

You've done it.

Yeah, yeah.

I ran New York in 2018 and it was magical.

Yeah, yeah.

It was like the perfect day.

Bluebird skies, like just blue sky, not too warm and yeah, it was just great.

1:25:20

So but it's, I mean it's a challenging course.

And so, you know, the the bridges are, you know, hills and then Central Park is is pretty hilly, the part that you finish in.

And so, but it was awesome.

So you have to do it.

So were you able to defer because of injury?

1:25:36

No.

Or I I guess I didn't try, I just chalked up and take took the L for the day, just didn't show up.

Yeah, because it's, I mean, I guess for you, you could probably time qualify to get into it.

Is that how you got into New York?

So for you versus like the average person who needs to like get in via the lottery or I, I ran for charity to run New York because I had to because my friend was going and that's what she was doing.

1:26:03

So the lottery had already passed.

And so I was like, right, right, go because I want to go when when she was going.

So yeah, you got to do that someday.

I do that OK.

So you took that whole year off and that's 23 now.

And then this year, obviously, you ran Carmel when we met.

1:26:19

Yeah, OK.

Yeah, right.

OK.

I.

Was like am I getting this right?

Well, no, yeah.

Years kind of blur together.

Yeah, for me the races were together.

Yeah, yeah, same.

So then and there you did also a triathlon.

Oh yeah, that was like completely out of whim.

1:26:37

Yeah.

Wait, no, I think we're, I think, I think I'm getting the years mixed up because I've done the triathlon, that triathlon twice.

OK, so I think last year, what?

What else did I race?

I think I did the try last year and then try again this year.

1:26:54

OK, yeah.

So then last year we're at the try on a whim instead of in August, which I don't know when New York is.

November.

OK, yeah, I did the try.

Yeah, yeah.

No, no, I'm all cut him.

Now, so the try did you do that because you were partially injured and you're like, well then I can do some cross training like I.

1:27:13

No, no, no.

Honestly, I didn't even really train.

I didn't do any.

I did like very minimal swimming, didn't train any of the biking.

I just let me just rely on the run.

Yeah, one of my boys, he he's pretty.

He's probably got a try.

He like, how old is he?

1:27:29

I think he's 20 and he he's he's like pretty competitive.

Like he's gotten into Junior Olympics for the triathlon.

Yeah, that's good.

And I was just kind of like, you know, egging him on, like, hey, hey, Sam.

I bet I can.

I bet I can beat you off him.

I I didn't, I didn't beat him, but I egged him on.

1:27:44

He was like, oh, I should show up.

Yeah, come do it.

Yeah.

Put your money where your mouth is.

I was like, OK, yeah, yeah.

Swimming is hard.

Swimming is hard.

Swimming is hard.

I.

She could see Sal's eyes.

You're like, yeah.

I thought, well, I mean, I thought I'm going to drown halfway.

1:28:00

I was like, oh.

Yeah, I remember.

I've done a couple of triathlons, like Sprint, like smaller, you know, races.

But yeah, literally like doggy paddling by the end.

Like Get Me Out of this water.

No, like for me, I was kind of, I was an idiot.

I like went too far outright.

1:28:16

It was supposed to be like a diamond.

I did like a big circle pretty much because I just took the turns off way too wide.

Made it through.

Yeah, that's funny.

Would you do another triathlon?

Oh yes.

I guess I already knew the answer to that because I feel like somebody asks you and you're like, sure.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah, sounds great.

1:28:33

Why haven't you run Monumental?

Good question.

That's a good question.

Good question Hudson.

Never thought about it when you.

Got to run it.

It's the best your biggest marathon in Indiana and we're like one of the best for like Boston qualifying, which for you at how old you are 25, have you qualified for Boston?

1:28:54

Do you have aspirations to run in Boston?

So yes, I've qualified.

No, I don't have aspirations to run for Boston.

And here we out here, we out here, we out here, we out here, we out.

I like this.

Same with New York.

Like I'm not like I, I, I'm, I'm not like I need to do the majors that that's not me.

1:29:11

Well, I am in Chicago, so I guess that's the exception.

But so for me, I'd like to think I fall under like a new category, like a a competitive vacation racer.

I love that.

I'd like, I love Colorado.

1:29:26

I love racing out in Colorado.

Beautiful, beautiful races are cheap too, and they're not like world majors, so I can get in for it cheaper sometimes free with my time qualifier.

Rome, Ireland, I'd like.

I'd much rather go out to like Brazil into whatever five mile there instead of going to.

1:29:45

OK.

Paying so much more to go to Boston I'm.

Kind of into this, OK, because not, well, I do have aspirations to run in Boston.

I'd like to qualify mainly because I'm chasing my best.

Like I want to be the best that I can be.

It's not as much about going there.

1:30:01

I mean, I would love to, but they keep making it harder.

So it's kind of like, well, I mean, maybe that's going to happen for me, maybe it won't.

I really want to do an international race, mainly to like pick somewhere I want to go and like and like do a race and like have the experience be around that.

1:30:17

I think you're on to something.

Competitive vacation.

Race, that's the way to do it.

That's the way to do it.

Like I'm not like I'm not like I I enjoy winning.

Yeah, like I enjoy winning, but like, not because of the winning itself, because I love being competitive so I can find competition anywhere.

1:30:34

Well, and plus you might win more if you can find like, I mean smaller races that where it's like not as competitive, but you're competing with yourself as well, right, right.

And that's fun.

Yeah, I'm not and and I love travelling.

I love talking to people.

I'm not like I'm not.

I'm how would I say though?

I had it.

1:30:50

I I I planned this line, but I forgot what it was what I planned.

But I'm I'm not raised, I'm not racing so I can win and like get all this stuff.

I'm racing because I just love.

I'm very passionate about the about the competition party.

1:31:05

I could even if I'm like, even if I do something for racing, I'm like a thousand 1000 plays or something.

Like us normal people, which we're probably back further, but it's fine.

Sorry.

No, don't be sorry.

It's all relative.

Well, even if I'm not like 1000 plays, I, I still love like putting in the work and seeing and seeing what happens.

1:31:26

And then while I'm out there, I might as well vacation.

I might as well.

Yeah.

What's it called?

One of my my one of my marathon I want to check out next year is the Bangkok Marathon out in Thailand.

Jesus, I've been.

I've been in Bangkok.

Yeah, Oh my God, you got to tell me all about it.

1:31:42

Or.

God, it's been over a decade.

It's been like probably 15 years since I've been there, but it's wild place, like unlike anywhere I had been before.

That's the only time I've been in in Asia and it's just like so cool.

Yeah, and.

Everything's cheap, right?

Yeah.

Like you talk about, Chief.

I mean, yeah, maybe getting there might cost you something, but like, it'd be really cool, right?

1:32:01

What time of year is that?

NN I might not, I might not do monumental because I'm going to be out there, whatever I'm.

Going to convince you to sign up for Monumental this year or you could do the Fort Bend half this weekend, which now when this comes out, it'll be a weekend too late for people listening but.

1:32:16

I got Chicago in two weeks.

That's right.

OK.

Yeah, Yeah, that's right.

Never mind here.

Never mind here.

Well, like what?

What the Indy monumental?

What the?

Monumental is this year it's November 9th.

Usually we are in the first weekend of November.

So I say we because I'm on the Board of Directors for Monumental.

Which OK.

1:32:32

Stronger.

Are you into doing it?

But I mean, we have a 5K and a half and a full at Monumental and it's usually the first week in November, which is usually when New York is.

This year, I can't remember why we pushed it a week, but thank God we did because Taylor Swift is the first weekend here.

1:32:49

So anyway, it's November 9th.

It's so flat and fast.

Like last year we had so many Olympic qualifiers, so many Boston qualifiers, like there's not a hill to speak of on that course.

And it's probably about the same size as Rome, about 15,000.

And it's just amazing.

1:33:04

I'm biased, but I've, I had done it before I joined the board.

So, and then all like the proceeds and a lot of what we do goes to help kids learn how to run.

So we have a monumental kids movement that we help kids like basically train, learn how to run, like learn how to train for.

And then we have a 5K that was last week that was amazing.

1:33:21

So anyway, you're going to do it at some point.

You what?

So after.

Chicago, just do it.

It's so easy to run.

I mean you run the half.

I would do the five Ki was considering doing the 5K because I do see your posts and I do see you plugging.

I was like you know what, it's working.

I also didn't know there was a 5K in half because the website was a little confusing in my opinion.

1:33:40

Good to know whoever the person in charge of it.

If you listen well, Jed doesn't listen to this, our executive director, cause I've tried to get him on this podcast and he's like, well, I'm not really a podcast guy, man.

Someday I'll make him.

But is he a talking guy?

Yeah.

Like, you can talk about running all day.

Yeah, I did have Rob Mullet on and he is now actually just got a new job, a new big job, which I can't remember if he's talked about.

1:34:02

So I can't say it now.

You'll have to follow Rob Mullet to know where he's going.

I'll tell you after this though, because I just don't want to spoil it.

But yeah, so he was on.

But.

But anyway, yeah, the website is hard because we have beyond monumental.org and then we have separate properties for all of our events.

1:34:18

So it gets a little convoluted for sure, especially to like manage it for anybody, whoever actually does that.

So that's good to know.

But anyway, OK, well I can't believe it's like 11:00 already.

Can you believe that other?

Really.

Yes.

Oh man.

So like we just talked.

About running like no problem, which is why I love this because I could talk about it all day.

1:34:37

Are there any big experiences we missed that you want to make sure you share?

Oh, I mean, we didn't talk about, we didn't talk about team vibe.

Team vibe.

Which is like kind of how we met and you're like yeah, like I cuz I met a couple of your teammates to finish.

1:34:54

So tell people what Team Vibe is and yeah, yeah, tell, tell us what that is.

Team vibe, well like we, we all like we're all we're, we're like a semi professional running team.

I don't know where the qualification is for a semi pro versus like an amateur team.

1:35:10

I don't know.

I feel like you can call it that.

Who?

I mean, who's policing it?

I don't.

Know we're competitive hobby joggers.

I would say that as well.

I'm, I'm worried to say we're like competitive competitive because we don't like we still have full time jobs.

We race whenever we can, But like, like, as I was saying for myself, like we the winning is cool, but that's not why we race.

1:35:34

We, we love talking to people.

We love connecting to people.

When we, when we go to races, our goal is not to like strictly focus on the race and get out.

We want to talk to people like we, I thought you and I met yeah, thanks.

But we, we talk to as many people as we can, getting to meet people.

1:35:50

That's the most fun part.

We're we'd like we'd like, I'd like to say we're community, more community driven than the racing rate rate running driven.

If you message me or something be like, hey, so I wanna do this race and wherever.

Sure, I'll be there.

Let me see if I can get some boys out there.

1:36:06

Yeah.

Yeah, and I got like one of my monumental.

All.

Right, I'll tell them.

I'll let them know.

Yeah, it's not too late.

You're right.

You're right.

Yeah, but like we, I got one of my teammates.

He lives out in Colorado.

He gonna do the Portland marathon.

I'm gonna go cheer him on.

1:36:22

I in a in a perfect world, everyone's a part of Dean in team vibe.

I can give everyone a singlet and we'll I'll be like, hey guys, we're going to go to Portland, pull up and all that.

Everyone converges on there.

And yeah, I love we're, we're we're we're really welcoming.

1:36:39

I'd love for us to be able to expand and maybe if we figure out all like the money stuff, because right now it's just me.

You're paying for the stuff.

Right.

So you're like, OK, let's get us like somebody to sponsor some aspect of it.

And how many athletes right now?

1:36:55

I lose count because we're not like all actively racing.

Yeah, what, like 20?

Less than 20.

Probably like 15.

OK, yeah, it's so cool.

I love that.

So then, yeah, like I was in a perfect world.

Everyone was part of it.

And I'd love to go like put on a vet, like if we go, if we went to like, oh, right.

1:37:14

Like in Chicago, like put on like an event as team vibe.

Yeah, yeah, kind of a.

Thing or even like if we went to Portland and we ran out of campground, people that are going to travel for the race, they don't get a splurge for like a hotel.

They can just bring a tent and sleep.

And I know he's a tent.

1:37:30

Well, if you, if you wanted to save money, strictly saving money, yeah.

Get like a time like that.

We're like hosting like pasta party before the race.

Yeah.

That'd be cool.

That'd be really.

Cool.

I mean, we still got like get we need a little more structure first.

Yeah, but.

I like, I like that it's called team vibe.

1:37:46

I feel like the vibe of it is a.

Structure.

Right, right.

I mean, if you want to continue to grow, you will at some point, right?

Yeah, That's cool.

That's really cool.

Yeah.

But the structure ideally is like a network of people across the US and say, hey, help us put this on.

1:38:02

I got you.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's cool.

Well, that's fun.

I'm glad we didn't forget.

I like, just peeked up my notes.

I was like, Oh my gosh, we didn't talk about this.

Right, Right.

OK, so now I'm going to ask you the end of the podcast questions.

Sad.

OK, Yeah. 1st what is your favorite running mantra and or song?

1:38:21

Running mantra and or song do.

You listen to music when you.

Run.

Not often.

OK, but I do have an answer for the song at least.

OK, so I'm I'm a big lifter and I was a fall into the stereotype like loud noises when you're lifting, all that I love.

1:38:39

What's it called?

I'm blanking.

I'm blanking on the name.

I'm sorry.

You're good.

You can look it up if you want.

I'm here maybe not like quite like metal loud music, but I love Lil Wayne, so I'm lifting and then when when I'm running especially like his.

1:38:57

I know it's been a while since his new since his album came out, but it's like it's got like a red album cover.

I don't know if you know it.

Yeah, I can picture.

It relatively.

But if you ask me, like name songs, I struggle with that.

Like if it came on, I would probably know it.

But yeah, OK.

1:39:13

OK, I'll.

Throw some Lil Wayne on the playlist.

Right, yeah, they hyped me up.

They, you know, flip, flip the switch.

Yeah.

Like I can really focus on.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah.

And then what about mantra?

Do you have a mantra or like mantras you use when you're racing?

I also had an answer for this, but then I had so many answers, I was like, all right, which one?

1:39:32

Like a Rolodex of answers.

I'm thinking through, can we put a pin on it?

Yeah, pin in that one.

And then going on to the next question.

Yeah.

Next question is what is your next finish line or milestone which now we know?

Chicago, Chicago, Yeah, for that one, I want to break sub 2:30.

1:39:49

I want to go sub 2:30 because I haven't done it yet.

OK.

I'm, I feel, I'm feeling pretty strong.

I might try to go, I might try to negative split for like a 225 depending on how things are looking.

Yeah, but first sub 230.

Got it.

OK, Chicago's amazing.

1:40:05

Chicago I've done 4 times.

It's like the race.

The marathon I've done the most.

It was my first marathon ever, 10/10/10 of the date.

And yeah, it's so flat and fast.

The spectators, Sal, like you thought Rome had spectators like just wait.

1:40:22

Like there's over a million people that spectate Chicago, especially if it's a nice day, it'll be like Chicago comes out.

It's so amazing.

So I hope you have the ideal conditions to to have a great race.

It's so much fun.

I'm jealous.

I put, I did throw my hat in the ring in the lottery for Chicago this year just to see.

1:40:40

I was like, well if I get in then I'll do that.

And now I'm training for Monumental.

Right, right.

Which is kind of nice because I have extra time which.

I want to ramp.

Up OK, so Chicago is next sub 2:30.

I will be cheering for you.

Thank you.

And then you mentioned Bangkok as like another race that is, you know, one that you're interested in.

1:40:59

Are there other ones that you see that you're like, oh, and this one somehow I want to go to this one.

Are there other ones that you're thinking about?

Not none my name, like really like I know I said like it's not an actual throwing dart on the board, but that's that's like part of the minds that I have with like picking my races and with Bangkok, the specifically the like the race, the race will be really cool.

1:41:22

The race is really cool and I'm like and it'll be like a beautiful, a beautiful city and all that.

But I remember seeing like TikTok, there's like a bar out there that's combined with like a boxing ring and like people that are like spectators, they have like professional fights, but also like spectators can also fight each other.

1:41:39

Oh my God.

I want to give that a try so badly.

That's the whole like that.

That's the motivating factor for going out to Bangkok.

Wow, that's cool.

I'm going to have to look that place up.

You know, I think it's really interesting because I all see things on TikTok or Instagram that I see that I'm like that I want to go to vacation like because I want that, which I think is why, you know, why people post so much like on vacation in these places where they market because it works really well and like that experience I want.

1:42:06

Right.

Yeah.

So funny that that's, well, Thailand.

It does smell weird, at least when I was there.

I'm sure it's no different.

The food is wild.

You can like get a massage for like $20 like most unbelievable experience.

1:42:22

Like that'll be nice too, especially after you get beat up or beat somebody up in a boxing ring.

Right, right.

Right now.

I'm still looking forward to that.

Maybe do that after the race.

OK, Sal.

It's coin flip at this point.

I know I'll be too anxious to do it.

I don't know if I'm able.

To continue myself.

Yeah, well, if you think of the mantra you were thinking of before, just send it to me and I'll include it at the beginning of this episode.

1:42:44

So the mantra, I don't know if it's, I don't know how long a mantra should be, but pump the well dry.

Pump the the well.

Yeah, To like empty everything out, even if whether it be the last, the last half marathon of marathon, whether it be the last 10 K 5K, even last like 10 seconds.

1:43:03

You got to just give it, juice it all out, ring it all out, yes.

Then after you're done, you can look back and be like, I just did that.

I just gave it everything I did.

I just did that, yeah.

That's great advice.

Yeah, awesome.

That's all the way.

I love before it's the last event.

I can just bring it all out.

1:43:19

Yep, Yep.

Well, thank you for coming and doing this.

I appreciate you taking a break in your work day for me.

I'm glad we got to do it in person.

So much easier for me.

I love being in person.

Oh, me too.

And thank you to everybody who has listened and happy running.

1:43:35

Happy running.

Yay, yay.

Crushed it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And if you like this episode, be sure to share, rate and review.

Thank you.