Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 79

Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 79

Here's a link to listen to this week's episode.

Guest: Wes Doty @dotywes

Show Notes:

Wes Doty is now 8 years sober! Instead of sleeping outside he's now running marathons (and maybe an ultra-marathon one of these days). Thank you to Timmy Howard (EP 54) for introducing me to Wes.

This is the first official episode as part of the SandyBoy Productions podcast network! Huge thank you to Lindsey Hein for bringing this show into the fold.

During this episode, sponsored by Athlete Bouquets, we talk about:

  • His childhood in Anderson, IN and how he spent most of his time away from his house searching for normalcy
  • How this led him to discover opiates at the age of 13 because his friend’s mom had some that went missing
  • Getting kicked out of high school and going from juvenile to a boys school
  • Spending a year in boys school but then going right back to chasing the high
  • What his parents must have been thinking and feeling during the time he was using
  • Breaking the promise to himself that he’d never use heroin
  • How he became a dad to his daughter, Jocelyn, when he was 25
  • Why he shouldn’t be alive today
  • How rehab brought him to Indianapolis in 2015 but opportunity and desire caused him to use again
  • What finally caused him to get clean and how he found running through Back on My Feet
  • The first races he did - The Indy Mini for his first half marathon, The Carmel Marathon for his first full marathon (where he BQ’d)
  • How he set a goal to qualify for the Boston Marathon and go there with his mom, but didn’t get the chance
  • His mom’s accident
  • How the biggest struggle with helping others like him is that you can only help someone who really wants it
  • Building a relationship with his daughter now that he’s sober
  • Finding his running community in PBT and getting faster and faster
  • His experience at the Boston Marathon in 2022 and chasing a PR at monumental (that’s on the anniversary of his mom’s passing)
  • How we’re both intrigued by ultramarathons
  • The documentary that was created about him after a film maker saw him give a speech in front of the governor
  • An incredible story about when he was running downtown after he was sober
  • How he ended up with a “normal” job thanks to someone from Back on my Feet

Episode Transcript:

0:00

This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast that celebrates the everyday runner.

I'm your host, Ali Brettnacher.

Whether you're a season marathoner, half marathoner, ultra marathoner, prefer shorter distances, or just getting started, if you run, you are a runner.

0:22

And every runner has a story.

Join me each week as I share these stories and we cross finish lines and celebrate milestones together.

This podcast is brought to you by Athlete Bouquets.

Celebrate the finish lines and milestones of the people you love by visiting athletebouquets.com.

0:41

Use code podcast for 10% off your order.

All right, the big news was given away at the beginning of this episode.

This is now a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

And if you don't know Sandy Boy Productions, it was founded by Lindsay Hyne.

0:58

Lindsay is the host of the I'll Have Another podcast with Lindsay Hyne that's been going on for a long time.

And I met Lindsay when she lived in Indianapolis.

She now lives in Raleigh, NC, and I was lucky enough to be episode 500 of her podcast.

1:15

I'll Have another.

There are several other amazing shows in the network as well, and you can see those at Sandy Boy productions.com.

But I am so appreciative for this opportunity and I can't wait to work with Lindsay and see where this goes.

So thank you so much to Lindsay and her team for the support and thank you to everybody who is already listening and might be new to listening.

1:39

Thanks to Lindsay and Sandy Boy.

And you'll actually notice that on the I'll have another feed.

I am relaunching the episode with Cameron Balzer.

So if you for some reason haven't heard that episode about Cam running around the United States, you should go listen to that.

1:57

But that's now available on her feed as part of our lunch together.

And then announcement #2 is that I will be hosting and moderating the Elite Athlete panel at the CNO Indianapolis Monumental Marathon Expo on the Friday.

2:12

So that's 11/8, November 8th at 3:30 PM.

So it'll be located in the Expo hall.

So if you're coming to get your bib, come hang out.

Cole Hawker will take the stage after my session with Matt Versal from PBT and then he will be hanging around for a meet and greet.

2:30

So be sure to come see me and a couple of Brooks Elite athletes and then see Cole and perhaps meet Cole and get a photo.

I'm super excited for that.

And it's the day before my marathon.

And during this episode I actually talk about how I get really nervous public speaking.

2:47

So even though I do this, you know, I have a podcast, it's a lot easier.

It's kind of behind closed doors.

So I'm nervous but really excited for the opportunity opportunity.

So hopefully I see some familiar faces in the Expo hall that Friday and then some not so great news that I got this last weekend.

3:04

I found out that one of my high school friends was running and was hit by a car and killed.

So it's been a weird week.

I think when somebody who is your age that you knew, you know, in a different part of life, you know, is gone, I just feel like, especially since I'm a runner, I could just put myself in his shoes.

3:26

And I've been thinking a lot about him and his family this week and just runner safety in general with all that's continuing to happen in our crazy world.

But I really, I haven't seen my friend Mike since before COVID.

We were friends through high school and then a little bit after college as well.

3:43

And it's just such a bummer.

He was too young, certainly.

So please say a prayer for him and his family and keep keep them in your thoughts.

And this kind of relates somewhat to this week's guest.

Wes Doty joins the podcast this week.

4:01

Unfortunately, he lost his mom in a similar type of an accident.

You'll hear the story later in this episode.

But this episode came about because Timmy Howard, who was episode 54 heroine to Iron Man, he introduced me to Wes and they have a similar background.

4:18

And it's so incredibly inspiring to see two men like this go through what they've gone through in their past and now be the men that they are today.

And so Wes and I talk about his upbringing.

We talk about all that he went through during his addiction and how he has really replaced addiction to drugs with an addiction to running.

4:38

So I know that you're going to really enjoy my conversation with Wes.

Hi, Wes.

It's so nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you.

I love doing this when I first meet someone, it's actually really fun for me.

It's such a good icebreaker.

It's like, hey, let's just spend an hour and a half together and talk about your entire life.

4:56

With microphones in our face.

And these giant headphones, yeah, we're so legit.

I like it.

Well, thank you so much to Timmy Howard for introducing me to you.

I've certainly like heard about you from other people too, but I'm really glad to have you on.

Yeah, good to meet you and I'm glad I'm here.

5:14

Gosh, where do we even start?

You got a crazy ass story, Wes.

So are you originally from Indiana?

I am from Anderson IN OK yeah.

I lived there for, I mean my 1st 20 years of life and then moved to Muncie, OK Lived there for six or seven years, OK, and then moved to Indy.

5:36

Major way to Indy.

Yeah.

OK.

Yeah, Anderson.

I always just think of the casino because my SO do I.

Yeah.

No, my my dad is a big craps player and my husband gets dragged along as well.

But they go to Anderson quite a bit.

Yep.

So did you.

You went to high school in Anderson.

5:52

I went to high school for a couple years in Anderson, yes.

I mean, my whole childhood and upbringing was in Anderson and then I moved to Muncie as an adult for work so.

Gotcha, So what was family life like?

6:07

Do you have siblings?

I have.

I have one brother that's full blooded both dad and mom the same and then I have AI have a couple half brothers 2 step brothers.

OK.

Wow.

But yeah, I got some siblings.

6:23

Some siblings and when you were like in elementary school or like as a kid, did you play sports growing up?

Did you have a relatively like normal Indiana childhood?

Yeah, I mean, I played baseball.

I played every sport.

I organized.

6:40

I played baseball, but I mean, I played every sport you can think of.

Not organized, but yeah, I grew up playing baseball.

That was I was a ballplayer.

OK.

It's like relatively normal and then at age, what, 14, you just kind of start getting into some stuff.

6:56

So, yeah, I mean, I, I was an intuitive kid.

I was, I mean, for the most part, I was not a loner.

I had friends, but I, I like to do things on my own.

I wasn't like a follower type of type of kid.

But yeah, I slowly, I mean, so let's rewind.

7:15

I mean, I spent most of my childhood away from my house and over at my friend's house, OK, because I envied their family life that I didn't have at home.

OK, So in just.

7:32

Like parents?

Parents everything, like, I mean, I would go to my friend's house every day.

We would eat at the table and their parents would get along and, you know, talk normal to each other.

And so I mean, I found myself always away from home.

7:49

And in hindsight, I realized that I was always searching for that.

What I could see on the outside is normalcy.

Right, yeah, where you could like feel safe and.

Normal and right so I mean yeah, at a very young age I and.

8:06

Is your brother?

Did you already tell me?

Is your brother older or younger than you?

He's younger.

OK, younger.

Yep.

How much?

Four years.

Four years younger.

OK, Yep.

So yeah, I mean, one day I was I was at my friend's house and I, his mom worked third shift.

8:22

She was a nurse.

She had medicine in her cabinets.

And she came home one day and was wondering why medicine was missing.

And we had a buddy, another buddy staying overnight with us.

And we were just very confused by it.

8:39

We're like 13 or 14 years old.

Confused by that question of medicine.

I don't know where your medicine is.

Yeah, it's such a weird question, but as a kid, right.

And thinking deeper into it, I mean, after all this was said and done, I remember on my own in my own head wondering what, like, why would someone take medicine from somebody?

9:03

And so I kind of did, you know, did 1314 year old research and discovered that it was, I mean, it was an opiate for and for instance, this one was hydrocodone.

And so from that day forward, I was interested in seeing what all that was all about.

9:24

And I remember so.

Crazy.

It is crazy thinking back on it.

I mean, it's it blows my mind because my daughter not to skip ahead, my daughter's 11.

I just can't.

It blows my mind right in two.

Years.

Yes, two years older.

Yeah, I can't believe I was even entertaining that.

9:41

But I I had so much disconnect as a kid and I didn't have, I didn't have that that groundwork to, you know, that solidarity that you're supposed to be teaching your kid.

But anyways, I found myself trying hydrocodone and opiate as a kid by myself in secret.

10:04

Where like how did you find it?

School or no, I took, hers I took.

The same parent that had been missing it, You're like, well, I know she has it, so now I know.

Where I took it, Yeah, I took some and was like, and I remember immediately feeling love is what I what I took from that.

10:25

And it felt so good.

I as a kid, I was 14 years old.

But I remember from that moment, I remember thinking to myself that I will always.

I will always.

This is what I want to feel.

Look for this.

Yeah, this feeling.

I'll always search for this.

10:42

That is so wild.

So I expected you to say, Wes, like, oh, you know, when I was 1314, we like got into the liquor cabinet and whatever to to start with pills.

Like that's just kind of, I don't know, maybe naive of me, I don't know.

10:57

But like when I was younger, like, yeah, we started with alcohol, some pot.

But like not, I mean pills maybe a tiny bit in in high school, but it was more like Adderall versus like opiates.

I went to Westfield High School around here.

Did you when you did the research?

11:14

I'm trying to picture like the like the time frame of this.

Are you like Googling?

So it I think it was like RX dot.

Com OK back in the.

Day and it was the I mean it wasn't dial up.

I think it was right after dial up.

OK, Yeah.

What year is that?

I was trying to picture too because I'm like OK when I was 13 what was the?

11:31

Like 2000, it was like 2003 maybe, or even 2002.

OK, It's right in there.

Yeah.

So yeah, I was like in the eighth grade, so yeah.

So wild.

Yeah, it is nuts thinking about it.

And I jumped to that.

11:47

But I mean, I was, I mean, as soon as that happened, I mean, everything just started spiraling.

Cuz you were just constantly chasing that at that point.

How did you even know like what to take?

Like I mean, just thinking of it like how do you even know what to do?

12:05

I guess the research or did you then confide in your friend that you knew perhaps had maybe taken it before?

So I the research online also and, but yes, I would, I slowly found myself around those people that that use drugs, Jeez.

12:24

And, and I mean, in the meantime, I, I was definitely smoking and drinking also at that point, but.

Did you have any jobs when you were that age?

No.

Nope, no jobs.

And I mean, I was never at home, I was just always out and about.

12:40

So at what point?

She said earlier on couple years of high school.

So what happened?

Well, I, I think it was sophomore year, I, it was like the second semester I got suspended from school.

I think it was for threatening somebody, fighting.

12:58

And on my suspension, I broke into a house that was in the neighborhood and robbed them of their medicine, of all their pills.

I knew, I knew the people and I knew what they had in their house.

And it was a very dumb mistake.

13:14

But I mean, yeah, I got arrested for burglary, went to juvenile, got sent from juvenile to Fairbanks as a as a kid, was there for 90 days.

They, I wasn't completing the program, so they sent the county to come get me, arrested me again and then they sent me off to boys school.

13:37

Geez, So, Fairbanks, so are you.

You're able to leave anytime there?

No, you're there, but you refused.

To do it's locked down as a as a adolescent.

OK.

And is Fairbanks local just to this area or are they national?

13:53

OK.

So it's like what would it be considered like recovery center or?

Yeah, it's a recovery center, well known recovery center, ND Yeah.

So yeah, so you just refused and they were like.

I just, I didn't feel like I refused, but I just wasn't progressing like I was supposed to be.

14:10

And I was kind of combat and, you know, and, and yeah, I just wasn't, I wasn't following all the rules, so.

And at that point too, when you were, when you, when you initially got arrested are at that point, were you just, you know, smoking, drinking pills, had it progressed any further at that point or is that?

14:31

Well, it was bad.

I mean, I've remember filling out at Fairbanks that I had to do all kinds of diagnostics, yes, where you just fill out your history and they were, I remember my counselor being concerned with me because I was 16.

14:47

He's like, holy shit.

And they were like, this is I see this type of progression and adults and you're going to die.

They were just like, you're going to die.

Did you?

Did that sink in at all?

It didn't sink in at all.

15:03

Yeah, I'm kind.

Of knew the answer to that considering where we're headed.

Did you with your parent?

Like where were your parents at this point?

They were divorced.

My mom was God love her.

She was a mess.

I'm sure for for me and from me.

15:18

Because had any of this like, been in your family at all?

Like addiction?

Or none.

Yeah, that would be hard.

My mom is in good standing in the city of Anderson.

My grandpa was as well.

My dad was off doing his own thing.

They were divorced at that time, but it was just me and my mom and my brother and she was just.

15:38

I can't imagine her, you know, she was just in a mess.

Never, never known if I was going to be alive one day or But she knew my she knew that I had an addiction problem.

Yeah, I remember the day that she found out.

15:53

She was just absolutely bawling in tears.

Yeah, and she how did she find out?

So I, I mean, I, so I, I got caught, I was suspended from school, went to work with my stepdad while I was suspended and I stole pills from the house that we were working at.

16:13

They were.

It was a whole bottle of hydrocodone.

Jeez, yeah.

And so it's, so I was, I took maybe 13 of them, yes, at once.

This is what's crazy because I took those, they obviously are not stupid.

16:30

And they, they knew that their pills were all gone.

They're missing.

I'm the only person that is suspect right now.

So I, you know, I had them and I, I hit them, but I finally, I came clean.

Everybody was hounding me and I was, I gave them back to them, but they were asking me how many that I took because they're missing some still.

16:51

And I told them four, which was a huge lie.

I took 13, but when I said four of my mom's, my mom started bawling because she couldn't believe.

That you took 4.

That I took 4.

But yeah, she didn't realize that I, I really took 13.

17:07

That's how progressed my addiction has become just in that short amount of time.

So I like really hit the ground running when I first got high.

Yeah, I know we were.

We were going somewhere with that.

So, well, I was going to also ask you about your brother too, which wasn't initially where we were going.

17:26

Like, did he know?

Did you?

No, I mean no 'cause I mean he's a.

Pretty big gap, like four years.

He was around.

He knew I was always getting in trouble.

I wasn't doing, you know, brotherly things.

I wasn't at home.

Yeah, I just.

17:45

He knew.

And thank God he's not an addict.

Right.

Like, I mean, I picture like, was there times where then you.

Yeah, then he kind of got into it because of that.

Nope, he went his own way, Yeah.

So is your mom with you then when you go to Fairbanks, like no 'cause they take you from jail like.

18:04

I went straight into the from the Paddy wagon and shackles they they dropped me off there in shackles and then picked me up in shackles.

Wouldn't you say shackles?

What is that like?

Not just handcuffs, they literally.

Like it's a chain that a chain that's connected to your handcuffs and then which connects to your ankle cuffs.

18:25

That's wild.

And you know what?

It's wild.

Wild.

It's wild that I was a kid and I was just accepting this.

I was totally accepting this and that this is what my life is going to be like.

I remember just surrendering that.

God, as such a young kid, yeah, so horrible.

18:45

I don't know where I gave up because I was, you know, I was a great baseball player.

I was every sport I would try or anything I would try.

I was good at it.

It was just, yeah, I was lost.

I didn't know.

Yeah.

But I loved the, I loved the temporary feeling of being high.

19:04

Yeah, regardless of what it was I was high on.

So, Fairbanks, back to, then back to.

Back to juvenile the night they sent me to boys school.

What does that mean?

It was, it was prison for juveniles.

OK, I went to Camp Summit Boot camp.

19:21

OK, So it's like a it's a prison.

It's like a military prison for kids up in La Porte, IN.

OK, so I was there for like a year.

Get out and jump right back to it.

As I say so while you were there, were there any drugs there that you could?

19:41

Find OK yeah, I was I was absent of drugs and for.

A whole year.

For a year.

But you still like.

You just were still like.

Just in my mind I was glorifying it and just couldn't wait to get out to get back to that.

Yep, to just keep using.

Wow, So what was boys school like?

19:58

Was it just very picture with military?

It's like very regimented, very schedule like what did you do you so you studied there like they had normal kind of like classes and things like that.

Yep, normal school and I got my GED while I was there.

But it was, yeah, it was military.

All the drill instructors were active duty.

20:17

Yep.

So I learned cadences.

What does that mean?

Like marching, OK.

And then also it was very strict, like making your bed, getting up at a certain time.

Being on time.

Yeah, and I mean, standing at attention and then they'd smoke you, meaning they would work you out until you are like completely exhausted.

20:40

You know that was their their way of you know, what do you call it where you're?

Like punishment.

Or not punishment, but what is it where you're like trying to rejuvenate someone?

Like when you go to prison?

Rehabilitate.

Yeah.

20:55

Yeah, exactly.

It was their way of rehabilitating.

It was good.

I mean, it learned this.

I learned discipline from it.

I learned to say Sir and ma'am.

But I mean, my mind was made-up before I went in there that.

OK, I'm just going to do this so that I can get out and then go do my thing.

21:12

That's why I was just.

It was just another step, you know?

So did they like, try to recruit from there?

No.

No.

Because I would think.

That the state just sends troubled kids there, OK.

So.

So there's not like a path to then join the military right from there?

21:29

I wonder why not?

I know.

I mean, I remember trying to join the military after.

I was like, it was like a year or so after and they wouldn't accept me.

At that time the military like was strict about having any type of charges.

It's not like it was back in the day.

21:44

Where?

Hey, you want to come?

Yeah, you.

You're in trouble all the time to go to the military.

It's like that.

We'll straighten you out and you'll be fine.

Yeah, that's interesting.

So you're there for a whole year.

What's the, did they tell you when you went in?

Like you're going to be here for a year and that's it.

You have to go through a certain like.

22:01

Yeah, there's no set amount of time.

So I could I could have been there until I was 21, OK 18 or 21, I can't remember, but I did everything I was supposed to do and got out at the minimum amount of time.

OK.

22:19

Got my GD, went home, I got a job but was partying and just.

Do you remember like the first thing you did in terms of partying, like when you got out?

I went to my buddy's house and yeah, we were just smoking and drinking and on the outside, but on in my head and underneath where no one knows.

22:44

I'm looking for the good stuff.

Like, so I'm in the shadows in the background trying to get what I really want, which was opiates.

Yeah, I do remember that.

Jeez.

Got arrested.

My very first arrest was as an adult was I think it was criminal mischief, an ex-girlfriend.

23:06

It was just a very bad situation.

That's the first of, I mean, maybe 20 different arrests over the years that I eventually accrued.

And did you live?

You where did you live at this point?

Like with friends.

I actually lived with so I cow chopped but for the main for most of the time I lived with my dad and we would just jump from different places, different hotels, different motels.

23:35

And did he know what was going on?

Yeah, he did.

But he didn't.

Yeah, he was.

He didn't step in.

Because he was just kind of like, well, you're a kid.

Or he just.

Well, I think he just, yeah, I think it is a combination of him just maybe in his mind trying to make up for lost.

Right.

23:50

He didn't want to be the bad guy, maybe.

Exactly.

He wanted to be a friend maybe.

Or, you know, I could.

I would.

I I think it was that kind of mindset.

But yeah, yeah, he would never like, step up and just tell me to do something, you know, so.

24:06

Did you ever talk to your mom during this time or your brothers?

Here and there, my mom just, yeah, I would talk to my mom, she wrote.

I think she just gave up, you know, over eventually, just finally was like her hands in the air and she's just got to accept the fact that she can't do anything.

24:27

Nobody can do anything.

She probably came to accept the fact that I'm probably going to die and she's going to have to get that call one day, is what I'm assuming.

Yeah, Yeah.

I moved to Muncie for a job with my brother and my dad I was there for and it was bad in Muncie so I was just using.

24:50

Just all the time.

All the time I got So I started using a lot of fentanyl and Muncie back before fentanyl was a thing.

OK, yeah, because I don't even know really.

I mean, I know of it, but how?

Like what is?

It's a patch.

25:06

It's for people with like, I mean, very severe pain, but it was a patch, fentanyl patch that was like a, it was a transdermal extended release type of thing.

But yeah, I got hooked on those.

And Muncie and and morphine.

25:23

How did you work?

I mean, I didn't, I mean, I would, I would work off and on and I thank God.

I, I mean, well, not thank God, but I lucky at in the moment that I was working for somebody that was a friend of my dad's, me, my brother, and he just kind of brushed it under the rug.

25:47

Yeah.

He wasn't really that hard on me.

What kind of job was it?

It was landscaping, OK, So it was like, it wasn't like, yeah, something where I needed to be.

Yeah.

Like you're not working with like machinery or things like that.

26:03

Yeah, and like a factory setting or something.

Yeah.

So I one day I was waiting for morphine pills to come through and I was just jonesing.

I was very, I was like, I needed something because I was like getting sick.

26:21

And I remember the guy came back and he didn't have morphines and he had what he had was heroin.

And I did not care at the moment.

I mean, I remember telling myself I would never ever use heroin in my life.

26:38

And when that moment came and I was hard up, I, I ended up using it and he injected me with it.

And I just immediately fell in love with that.

So then I was off to the races.

26:55

Yeah, it was.

So what?

Made you what made you tell yourself you would never do it just because you knew what happened to people?

Yeah.

Did heroin.

I've always, I remember always saying that to people, I mean, even before I used drugs, like people with, you know, needle users.

Yeah, you're like.

It's terrible.

27:11

Yeah, it's terrible.

And yeah, I would never use.

I would never do that is what I always told myself.

And anyone, whoever you know, would ask, but.

Here here's how naive I am.

I didn't realize morphine could come in pill form.

Oh really?

27:26

I just picture the more the drip that you would have like in a hospital setting, Yeah.

Oh yeah, It comes in pill form.

Yeah.

Ever since I used the that from that day forward, I was looking for anything and everything I can stick into a needle.

27:43

And how old were you at that point?

Let's see, 20 I just had my daughter, so she, I think I had her when I was 25.

OK.

So 25 is right when I had my daughter, yeah.

It's so sad thinking about it.

Yeah, yeah.

27:58

And how did how did you end up having your daughter?

Were you in a relationship at the time?

So I, yeah, I met her mom when at a place I was working just this short job.

I had washing dishes in Muncie.

And then, yeah, we had her, Jocelyn, when I was 25 and we lived together for two years.

28:19

You know, she was a baby when she eventually kicked me out because I was just, I mean, I was very deep into addiction.

She kicked me out.

My daughter is a baby.

I'm getting arrested for OW.

I I mean over and over again, three times I think and and two weeks I get arrested for OWI.

28:42

How is that even possible?

Like just, I mean in terms of like, why don't, why aren't you in jail for an extended period of time at that point?

Yeah, they just, I mean, the, I think the jails were full and they were just really some people on their own recognizance.

Jeez.

28:58

So I'd spend a couple days in jail and they'd they'd, they'd release me and then they would, they would pull me over again, slumped over in my in my car.

So they the, I think the difference between OWI and DWI is they didn't catch me.

29:16

They didn't have to pull me over driving.

I see they pulled up on me and I was passed out.

Yeah.

Clearly you had been driving, but then you would.

So they did operating while intoxicated.

So yeah, I mean, I've done that three times, got a resisting arrest another time in Muncie.

29:33

There's just so many.

I know my timeline is so back and forth right now but just trying to gather.

Well, I can only there's like, you know, I've certainly had times in my life where I I mean, I drink like binge drink to oblivion.

And that's the only thing I can compare it to where it's just like, how do I don't, you know, you just don't even remember the time frame of like, when did that happen?

29:56

What happened, the idea like, and then I try to think about that over an extended period of time.

I don't know how you remember anything.

Like I have a horrible memory in general, maybe because of that doing a lot of that.

But yeah, I don't know how you've yeah, some of this like I understand trying to piece it together.

30:14

Just how can you?

Hopping back and forth.

Yeah, Yeah.

I mean, I work release in Anderson.

I did for a year.

I've been to three homeless shelters that I've lived in each of them several times.

So I know it's just a it's just wild.

30:31

I mean, I have a lot to unpack.

So yeah, I mean I've overdosed in the meet when I was in Muncie.

I've overdosed.

I've woken up in the morning and in a Bush face down and rocks where in from fentanyl and I'm just you know, my nose is broke because I obviously hit the ground so hard in this just gravel pit.

31:01

I wake up obviously the next day I woke up but and realized I somehow survived the night because I should have died.

That was an overdose to where most people they they stop breathing and then that's what kills them.

31:18

They when they're so I've done that.

I mean I've woke up face down in my closet.

Yeah.

I mean as a kid I mean I forgot all about this, but I've been rushed to the hospital 3 separate times for overdoses.

My ex-girlfriend first time called the ambulance for me.

31:35

The second time my brother did.

He found me black, just black and blue.

You know my face.

I wasn't breathing.

These two times I just mentioned were times that I wasn't rushed to the hospital.

Nobody found me.

I just miraculously was able to wake up.

31:52

That's.

So nuts.

So that's happening.

My mom eventually for Christmas in 2025, 2015 pays for my stay in detox and Indy Harbor Light.

32:11

I go there, I get.

Willingly, I'm assuming then.

Yes, I absolutely want to quit and I just didn't want to surrender, though I did want to quit but I just didn't want to lose that feeling of comfort I.

32:32

Mean that's AI, mean I was scared severe addiction at that point, it's not even yeah.

I was just scared.

Yeah, like how do you even?

So I went to Indy.

That's how I moved from Muncie.

I moved to Indy.

OK for that.

Detox got out.

I was I had a halfway house lined up to go to.

32:49

It was called Agape house.

It was a halfway house.

I stayed clean for like 6 months which was the longest stretch I've ever had.

Meanwhile, my daughter's two and Muncie, but I stayed clean for a little while.

33:05

Did you get to see her then at that?

Point yes, Everett, my mom would bring her to Indy and I would get to spend like a few hours with them, you know and and six months into that I just I remember opportunity and desire meeting at the same time and I ended up using again heroin and from there I was it got I mean I went straight off the the ledge after that I I had some money saved up and I went and I got kicked out of that halfway house and went and stayed out of Mattel on the Far East side of town for a week and then after the money ran out I was heavy heavily using there, but after the money ran out I headed downtown and I just was I went to the what's the homeless shelter down there?

34:02

Wheeler.

Wheeler.

So I was at Wheeler and in and out of there, sleeping outside, just walking around downtown like a bum, panhandling for food, standing in line at soup kitchens, just, you know, it's such a degrading time for me, but I was OK with it at that time.

34:24

I was just, yeah.

It was so crazy that I can look back on that and cannot believe that I was.

I didn't.

So crazy.

I was only concerned about myself, yeah.

And how I was feeling.

It was all about feeling OK.

34:42

And when you use like that, you know you're in a motel for like a week.

Do you just use and then just like sit there?

Yeah, yeah.

Just feel comfortable for a little while and then start looking for when you're not gonna be high again.

34:58

It's so wild.

Your whole life has revolved around that.

And then every now and again you'll get some food or.

Yeah, but you're not gonna worry about taking a shower, getting hydrated.

I mean, yeah, Yeah, it's it's nuts.

35:15

It's, I mean, I honestly am very blessed that I didn't.

I live.

I can't believe you're alive.

I cannot believe I'm alive.

There's no.

That's insane.

Lastly, there's no answer except for God.

That's the only answer for me to be alive.

Yeah, you're supposed to be here.

35:31

Supposed to be here.

Yeah, that's just, I mean, I don't know, like the fact that even just as a kid you went to the hospital that many times before you even.

And then, I don't know, at least from my perception, a lot of people who you get out of rehab and you're looking for it again and you go big usually or not usually.

35:52

But like a lot of times, isn't that when somebody would eventually die because they'd, you know, take too much or.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I know.

And like to survive that multiple times and certainly you had to be, I mean, did you have friends to speak of like that were around you that?

36:11

I was a lone wolf, yeah.

So I, yeah, I was just venturing.

Yeah.

I was just everywhere, yeah.

And then so from.

Harbor lights.

Harbor lights Halfway house kicked out of the halfway house.

So then when did you end up somewhere else?

So I, so I, I remember I was sleeping outside on, I think it was E Street or New Jersey downtown.

36:33

And I just was, I mean, I don't know what it is one day.

So I called someone or I texted someone from Muncie that I knew would always save the day.

They would come and, you know, Get Me Out wherever I'm at, I'm in or whatever.

36:50

And I texted that person and they were like, sorry, I can't, I can't help you anymore.

And I just remember, I remember just feeling absolutely helpless in that moment.

I was outside and I remember hearing about this place called Pathway to Recovery.

37:07

I and I knew it was about, it was like 20 blocks up the road.

So I walked up there, checked to see if they had any openings.

They did not have any openings.

But I remember speaking to someone that was there and they were like come back and and check because I feel like this person was going to work on getting me a bed.

37:30

Right, because I can only let you work there and your whole your purpose is to like help people like you and you walk up you have to.

Turn someone away.

Yeah, that would be so horrible.

Yeah, yeah.

So I mean, I walked, I remember walking in there with, I only had a trash bag of unfolded dirty clothes.

37:49

That's all I had with me.

That's all I had.

But I came back, they let me in.

They did have a bed and so and then from that day.

It was October 13th, 2016.

Oh my gosh, what's today?

October 14th.

38:04

Yesterday was 8.

Years.

Oh my gosh, yesterday was eight years.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

I've been emotional.

I I mean.

I didn't even, I'm sorry, I didn't even realize that.

I forgot.

I forgot to say something.

I was going to say something.

Yesterday was eight years sober.

38:22

I've been getting.

Yesterday I was just bawling.

There is a song I've been listening to and I just, I'm so grateful that I'm alive that I just couldn't control.

I was like, I was on my run and I was just, I was doing the.

I couldn't get, yeah.

38:38

I couldn't catch my breath, cry.

It was amazing.

It was a very spiritual experience.

Yeah, what's the song?

The song that it's called A New Thing Coming, OK, It's called It's by Elevation Worship, OK?

38:55

It's just a very new song that I was introduced to and I just absolutely love it.

Yeah, wow, eight years now.

So how long were you at Pathway?

I was at Pathway for, well, I'm technically still there.

39:13

I'm at one of their apartment complexes, but I was there for 90 days.

OK, They were different.

They didn't charge you money.

So you're just come as you are.

Yeah.

Off the street.

How are they funded I.

Want grants?

39:29

Yeah, grants, grants, fundraising, stuff like that.

It's a non profit.

That's amazing.

That's incredible.

They do good work.

Yeah, they're amazing.

Yeah.

I mean, I've attempted recovery between this entire stretch of my using.

39:47

Never have I have been fully in and surrendered until now at this point.

And something that was different this time is I was introduced to running and I started running and I, I honestly, I just became addicted to it and I loved it.

40:09

It was my new way of talking to God to reflect everything just.

Yeah, I mean, running and I, I was pretty decent at it too.

And it was, I think a confidence booster at the time also.

And it was just, you know, his good exercise.

40:26

But yeah, I think I was addicted.

I mean I.

Just trade.

I mean you.

Yeah, it was definitely.

I traded addictions.

Yeah, we.

Talk about a lot, actually on this podcast.

It's amazing how anybody who's been through addiction.

40:42

Yeah.

It's like, well, this is this is now my.

Yeah.

Something about running, I mean, for anybody that's ever had trauma in their life, I think running is just so therapeutic for everything mentally.

I think it just reformulates your your brain.

41:00

You know, you set a goal every single day and you go and you meet that goal every day.

It does something to you, you know, over time, just consistently setting goals, finishing it, you know, accomplishing what you set out to do.

41:18

Was it?

And it was back on my feet.

Back on my feet.

Yep.

So it.

Yeah, it was back on my feet.

I was so brand new.

It was so funny.

If I look at pictures I'm wearing, I'm wearing shoes that were given to me and I was Yeah.

We meet three days per week early in the morning.

41:35

We just get up and we.

It's a community.

I mean, volunteers coming out and just, you know, spending their time with these people that are in need, you know, and I was attracted to that.

41:52

How did you find out about it?

The pathways just like feel like, hey by the way, you want to.

Yep.

Do this.

They had a partnership going on.

Yeah.

And I was, I was all for it, you know, something new.

I didn't know I would want to run.

You know, I was just, I went and checked it out and I ran a couple times and I was like, hey, I like this.

42:12

At that point, could you like finish a run?

Did you go actually just run the whole time?

I was just pretty impressive.

Went and just started running.

Yeah, I was like 3 miles at a time.

But yeah, I was able to and I was actually doing it faster than the people that were there.

Volunteering.

They're like, yes, wait a second, I was not supposed to be this good.

42:31

It's funny, I was smoking cigarettes at this.

Sure too.

Yeah, I mean at we would go do local races and I would be smoking, I would be smoking a cigarette and I would.

Yeah, I was, so I would.

Kicking everyone's.

Ass and then winning.

That's so funny.

I would put it out right before the starting line.

42:49

Wow and.

That's funny.

And then if I didn't, I wasn't winning, but I was definitely beating everybody at back of my feet.

Yeah, that's, oh, it's so crazy.

And did were you at, was the timing similar to Timmy?

Did you meet Timmy at Back on My Feet?

43:05

Yeah, I met Timmy through back on my feet.

Yep.

So he was I think he was with Wheeler.

So they were different back on my feet teams.

OK, his was Wheeler.

Mine was HVAC.

It was OK.

It was right across.

I mean it was AI think it's a homeless veterans.

43:23

OK, yeah, I've heard, I've heard of it probably through back on my feet.

Yeah.

So I remember they had different.

That was a team.

So I was I was with their team.

But yeah, I just started.

I got, I absolutely loved running and it was I just stayed clean and I was doing everything I needed to do to stay clean.

43:40

I wanted it, you know, and I know that was the difference, right?

Wanting to be.

I wasn't going to say I was going to say normal, but I don't want to be normal.

Yeah, who's normal anyway?

Yeah, exactly.

I think normal people are boring.

Yes, yeah.

So yeah, I just started running and yeah, one thing after another, I just kept getting better and better.

44:03

So with back on my feet, they gave you opportunities to go to races.

Yep, I was going to races getting faster each race my first.

What do those look like?

Where's like start with like 5 KS, 10 KS.

I was doing little local 5 KS at like Marion University outrun the Sun.

44:19

I think is another 5K.

They do Joseph Mailee and then I did a they do like the mini marathon.

They do monumental caramel.

I can't.

I'm trying to think if my first half was the mini I think it was, but I know I got like a very respectable time.

44:38

I remember my first, my first half, I think I did in like an hour and 30 minutes maybe or I can't remember.

Did you get 2 medals?

I did get 2 medals.

That means you were pretty fast.

Yes, yeah, I did.

I only know that because I had friends that would be that fast and I was like medals.

44:53

I was like, why did you get 2 medals?

Because I finished in the top 500. 500, yes.

Yeah, which I think they still do.

I think they do.

I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure I've seen Mark Geyer out there with two medals, Mark.

Yeah, Mark, I just looked.

It's so funny looking at the pictures.

45:09

I looked very ridiculous.

Long hair.

Yeah, the hair still fresh, freshly sober.

I mean, I have months sober, but I love it.

I wouldn't change anything, honestly.

I'd look back at my past and I'm like very grateful for everything I went through up until now because it build my character today.

45:35

I, you know, I was just saying I, I I'm glad I'm not normal because I've yeah, I feel like without what I went through, I would probably be some lame O just.

45:55

Boring, bored, married like dad of couple kids just working at a normal job.

Yeah.

And I, yeah, I mean, I'm proud of everything that I've been through.

I know we're missing a ton.

I mean, I eventually, yeah, I just kept training, I mean.

46:12

Just graduating from half to then, how long was the time period between when you got started running and then did a full marathon?

Cuz what was your first fall was 2022 right?

Caramel.

Caramel.

In the really terrible or no 2019.

46:28

Sorry I lied, you know.

OK, so your first marathon was 2019.

Caramel.

It was like shitty weather.

It was like 34° I swearing down rain.

Every type of precipitation.

It was literally just warm enough to not be like.

46:44

Nice fluffy snow, yes, which would have been welcome.

Compared to I started through, I showed up with trash bags on my on my shoes.

It was that wet.

Yeah.

Before and trash bag.

Gone to stay warm.

But I was, I was using that race to, this was my first marathon, but I was used, I was training for that race to qualify for Boston.

47:07

OK, that's a goal that I set.

Who made you aware of that?

Do you remember?

It was somebody volunteers.

Yeah, the volunteers back on my feet.

And then I just slowly.

Yeah, I got into the running community around town and I, you know, that was the word is to.

47:24

Yeah, got it, Got.

It Boston is a thing.

Yeah.

So I I did, I showed up to Carmel and ran a qualifying time in the in the crappy weather.

Yeah, that picture is from that day.

I was trying to qualify that day and.

47:41

You were there.

Yeah, I was there.

I did the half that day.

Did you?

Yeah.

It was miserable.

It was so bad.

And I remember just being thankful I was doing the half, Yes.

But then I went home, showered, came back and cheered for my friend who was trying to be cute, and she shattered her marathon PR Awesome, but didn't be cute.

48:00

I mean, the weather was.

Yeah, it was really rough.

It was.

It was.

AI have not ran in a day like that since.

Gosh, knock on like all the wood because I have just I'm like please weather, be nice.

I'm yes, Oh yes, monumental.

You have that coming up.

That's great.

48:16

Wow, so you be cute.

What did that feel like?

Awesome.

I mean, I just so my mom, that was a it was a goal for both of us for me to qualify and go to Boston together.

And, you know, she's very proud of me.

48:33

She's I've got like a year, I have two years sober at this time.

Yeah.

It was a goal of both of ours.

Well, mine, but.

But like you're coming with.

Me, Yeah, yeah.

It was just a huge transformation from where I was to, I'm now going to Boston to run, you know?

48:53

Yeah.

And COVID hit, and then they cancelled it.

They cancelled?

Yeah.

You know they postponed it, right?

That's right.

Yeah, 2019.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

But.

So you eventually did get there.

I went so I use I can't I think I I can't remember if I had to re qualify or if I use the same time.

49:16

Oh I don't remember what they did COVID either.

But I qualified again, yeah, I qualified a monumental OK with the same time.

Like that same year or no it would have been well.

Same qualifying time.

It was two years later.

OK, whenever we had it again.

After it was like 2 hours and 55 minutes.

49:34

So my mom passed away in a car accident.

I was two years sober.

She was on her way back home from work with her with her Co workers and she was in the back seat and a person texting on the phone hit them head on and she was killed instantly.

49:54

And so obviously that was extremely devastating for me.

When When was this?

It was 2018, so it was right before.

Oh, it was before you ran your first.

Right before the 1st marathon.

So one of my one of my last few texts to her was I just got a major PR at the monumental half and she's like, she doesn't know what that is.

50:20

She's like.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

You know, And she's like Boston, here we come.

But that happens.

Did her coworkers die as well?

They survived.

They survived barely.

God they everyone should have passed away in that accident.

50:36

It's.

Crazy to me.

Yeah, you get head on, you think?

Well, yeah, the driver and the passenger are the 1st.

To go, I know it's I honestly I think it was because she didn't they didn't see it coming and it it broke her neck.

So I don't think she was watching for to brace and it just yeah, it broke her neck.

50:56

Don't fucking text and drive.

Yeah, I know that's difficult, but yeah, that was such a huge loss because.

Who told you?

Like where'd you get a call?

From my brother.

Your brother?

Yep, he just called me and he was just.

I mean.

Bawling.

He just couldn't talk to me.

51:12

Yeah.

And he was just like, she's gone.

And I was numb for that whole day, for the whole night.

I stayed home from work that day.

It's so weird how this how this played out because I stayed home from work.

I caught off sick that day before that happened.

51:32

And I never call off sick.

It's like mother.

And I look back on it like it's a Mother, Mother son type of an explainable connection.

But I never call off sick forever at work at that time.

51:48

And I did, I called off sick and it happened at like 4:00 PM later that day.

That's wild.

But I mean, I run for her and I and I stay sober and her honor, you know, I, I wish you could see me today and just everything that's happened.

52:10

I, I mean, I checked in that Fairbanks with nothing.

I had a trash bag full of clothes.

I had no ID card, you know, and I just, I love today anyone that talks to me and they get AI tell them just a little piece of my past.

52:28

They don't believe me.

Yeah, I mean, absolutely, I can see that.

Which is a blessing to me because I'm like, wow, like I'm so far removed from that place that people can't even see that.

And I love that.

52:44

At the same time, I need to stay.

I need to, I need to stay there.

I mean, a part of me needs to be because I need to not for it to not happen again, but I need to help the people that don't know that there's a way out.

53:05

It's hard because when you're in it like you're, you're almost convinced that you're just going to die, that.

Way just how it is.

You just can't.

You can't stop.

You can't stop it.

That's my purpose today.

Yeah, it's going to be hard too, because you also know that unless you want it, it can't happen.

53:24

And so it's like, how do you help somebody want it?

You almost just like.

Can't I know this is that is the biggest struggle for me to to explain to people because people will reach out to me, loved ones will reach out to me and ask what they can do and.

53:42

Their loved ones.

Yes.

And I, I, I struggle because I just to be real with you, there's nothing you can do because they won't get clean for anything other than if they want to death my kid, jail, nothing stopped me.

54:01

I mean, I, it's very evident that you won't stop unless you want to stop.

And so it's hard to say that, but so I feel like my, my purpose today is to help show the people that are like, there's no way out, right?

54:20

There is one because I promise you I, I am.

I am a living testimony that you can you can get out of there.

Yeah.

And at what point did you really get to start seeing your daughter again and like, build that?

Relationship after my mom died so I started yeah, I started getting her well after my mom died I just I stayed sober I kept doing what I was what I needed to do and then I slowly just worked that my relationship with her mom back to where she could trust me that.

55:00

Was to be really hard.

Yeah, Jocelyn, my daughter and I did everything I, you know, I needed to do and it was a process.

It wasn't.

Nothing came back quick.

I worked to get everything back slowly the the trust and just over time I just started getting her and I was, you know, just she doesn't know me, not sober.

55:25

My daughter doesn't know me any way other than how I am today, which is annoying according to her.

Very annoying.

Right, 11 she's Yeah man.

I have two girls, A7 year old and a three-year old.

55:41

OK.

So I'm still like #1 right now.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

So.

I'm like trying to like as much as it can be hard for me to be like smothered at times.

I'm like trying to remember like, OK, you're going to really want this.

Yes, yes she is.

Right now, officially.

She's cool with hanging out with me, but not very much and I am very annoying.

56:04

I mean, in her defense, I can say some annoying stuff.

Is she?

Does she run at all?

Have you done any like?

She doesn't run, OK, She's not athletic like I was, but she does her own thing.

She's an artist.

She's hilarious.

She has a great personality.

I'm a lucky.

56:20

I'm a lucky guy.

She's such a good daughter.

And how old are you now?

3636 OK yeah, she has no memory of me, Wow, anything other than what I am today, so thank God.

Yeah, yeah, that's a blessing.

56:35

So running you also, I want to talk a little bit about setting goals before every run.

You kind of mentioned that too, like setting a goal every day.

Like have you just always kind of done that, Like even when you started going back on my feet, like, OK, today during this run, I'm going to do this?

56:51

Or does that like come naturally to you to want to do that?

Yes, I mean, I do, yeah.

I mean, I feel like like any runner does that, you know, they say I'm going to do 5 miles today and they they go out and do it.

I did get connected with a running club that where and that's where I really started to like get into more details of running, you know, PBT.

57:18

Right, like how to actually do it?

Exactly like workouts and all that stuff like training, real training.

And I got faster and faster and but yeah, the goal, the goal setting thing, it, it changed everything for me.

57:34

And, you know, it's running has been direct influence on me being successful, staying sober because of that.

Yeah, you get in the mindset of saying you're going to do something and you do it.

57:51

And it slowly becomes.

It's not.

Right.

It's just a habit at that habit.

Yeah, you just do it.

How was your experience at Boston when you got there in 22?

So I went, my brother went and his fiance went out there and met me out there to support me since my mom wasn't able to.

58:10

And it was awesome.

It was everything I thought it would be and more.

Have you been?

Not yet.

It's you.

It's you're going to love it.

I I mean God damn it, they keep moving the moving the goal posts.

Oh, I know they keep that.

You're talking about the qualifying, so do they.

58:26

I'm it's discouraging, right?

Because you're like, oh, I could see myself doing that.

And then they move it and then you're like, but is there a buffer?

I don't know.

It's like, who knows, but I think, I don't know, I'm part of me is trying to have peace with that and just be like, just run a qualifying time.

58:42

Yeah.

And then or just don't and just go at some point like we'll see.

I'm almost 40, I'm 38.

And so maybe that'll help give me like kind of the buffer I need the additional time I don't.

Know be in the next bracket yeah.

So get it?

58:57

Yeah.

So I'm like, OK, maybe I want to so monumental for this year.

I want to PR.

My PR currently was ten years ago, actually.

Really. 2014 Chicago Marathon.

Nice.

I ran a 357, so just under four.

I was so thrilled.

59:13

I actually thought funny enough, oh, I ran a sub 4 marathon.

I don't have to run anymore marathon.

Yes.

I was like, I don't need to run another marathon.

I already did it like I did the sub four and now it's so funny.

I'm like, oh, what's next?

Pursuing, yes, yeah, always.

59:28

So.

So I will shatter that PR if I have a great, I mean if I have a normal day.

If you're you, just stay.

I mean, if I just stay healthy, I'll be fine, yeah.

I was going to say that lies on the same day my mom passed away, all the like.

59:44

These are lining up perfectly.

I'm going to be running that day too.

On and monumental.

Yeah, lies randomly on that same day.

And what are your goals for this year?

I'm just doing 1/2.

Just you cannot allow to say that.

PR PR Not just.

Not just. 1/2 marathon.

1:00:01

Yeah, 1/2 marathon.

I do that all the time.

I'm like oh I'm just running the 10K.

It's like, shut up.

I know, Allie.

Yeah, non earners.

They're like, oh, just yeah.

Rub it in, rub it in.

So what's your PR?

118 low so OK 1/18/19 is OK so I I should be able to get my fingers are crossed I should be as long as I'm healthy I should be able to to run it in 115 so.

1:00:28

Yeah, right now.

Oh, that's exciting.

As long as I stay healthy.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

It's just like, please, I already had the flu this year, so I'm like, got that out of the way.

Should be fine, I hope.

I love, I love beating people and then thinking that I used to be where I was and then then for some reason, never mind, let's take that out.

1:00:52

OK, take that out.

I kind of like.

I don't like where you go with that Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All these like normal.

I can still cut it out, but I know what you mean.

I.

Was gonna say something like that.

Like I don't know, I'm trying to picture they.

Don't they don't know that they just got beat by?

Someone, some dude that used to be like sleeping in a Bush.

1:01:08

In the Bush just injecting heroin, yeah, yeah, it's.

And it's certainly because I use it as like ammo for myself.

Right, without that grit, yeah, that's what sets me apart from people that have been running their whole life is grit in my past.

1:01:24

So I will out kick them at the end because that pain, yeah, you don't.

I welcome it.

So yeah, that I love the pain of it hurts, right?

But I'll take it.

Yeah, I try to tell myself to like when it starts to hurt, like to the whole point is to learn how to love the pain.

1:01:43

Yeah.

So true.

And it's so it really is like a mental thing because 100% you'll be so tired and like, you're like, I can't go any further.

But then you see like the next cheer squad coming up and somehow you, you are able to, you know what I mean?

1:02:01

Like you get that energy back.

It's mental.

Yeah.

Huge mental.

I think I, I've said this before, I think it's like 99% mental, like it's so close to being 100% because especially if you're training like you're, you know, you're like a normal, you're running, you got a coach, whatever.

1:02:17

You can't go out there and just never train and then think you can just do it met with your mental strength.

I think you have to have some sort of foundation there.

But you know, I think you disturb out there beating yourself a lot of times, at least for for me, certainly.

So true.

So that's what I'm telling myself heading into November because I've got a tough workout this week and I'm like, I don't know if I can do that.

1:02:38

Do you know what?

What is it?

So I have a 20 Miller on Friday with, I forget how many total miles of marathon pace, but it's all, it's like progressive marathon pace.

So it's like 3 miles at 8:40, then it's like a break, 3 miles at 8:30 and then you know, so it's, I like that.

1:02:55

I like it sort of.

It's tough.

It's tough, It's hard.

You're going to do it.

Yeah, we're.

Close to the taper will be.

Yes, this peak week so.

Yep.

Okay, yeah.

So that's all I have to do.

It's like, hey, this is the one.

Is this the last?

Yeah, long run, it's the last big one.

1:03:11

Got it.

Which is crazy.

I feel like this block kind of flew by.

Yeah.

So what are you thinking about now in terms of like, okay, so you're running the half November, what else do you want to do?

I honestly, I want to PR this run and then I am signed up for Carmel, OK and for the full marathon.

1:03:30

I want to in April.

Yeah, in April I want to PR that I and I am entertaining ultras.

I want to maybe get into ultras trail running.

Yeah, you'd be careful there.

I mean, you got people listening to this.

Yeah, I know a few who are going to be like I.

Know.

Here's a link.

1:03:46

There's one in December I'm.

You know, I was looking at one in December, actually.

Is it the was it Jackson County or something?

Yes, yeah.

And I'm not in shape to do it, I don't think, but I just wanna just jump in and do it.

1:04:04

Yeah, the 50K.

Yeah, I mean cuz it's.

Anyone listening a.

Few more miles yeah, I know no, I will not do it Ashley stop asking I'm just kidding, but I I also have never should I no, I went out and cheered at the FOMO, which is a 50K here in June.

1:04:24

I haven't really been around I've been around the 8 hour endurance just for a few minutes.

I stopped by and cheered.

But I do really, I would love to go like be at an ultra and just, you know, be there and support people and kind of get more of a sense of what it's like.

1:04:40

Yep, I've never been either.

I've never been by it.

Yeah, same.

And it's so different.

Yeah, it is a it's a different running community, you know what I mean?

And you're right, I haven't been and but I do know a lot of people that do run ultras and this one was like, it's a loop.

1:04:58

So it's just, you know what I mean?

Like the crew and everybody can just stay at the.

Right.

I like that idea, the idea of that, where it's like, OK, you know what to expect.

Yeah, you've got your people, you know where they're going to be.

Yeah, I just feel like that might be my.

The next well, it's like, okay, a.

1:05:15

New Ave. it.

Only runs so fast.

Right, yes, I mean I'm.

Gonna be getting older.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, and you're already incredibly fast.

So it's old.

And old or whatever.

You can't call yourself old because I'm two years old.

Okay, good, I'm good, just.

Called me old.

It's fine.

1:05:31

I am sorry.

Everybody else who's older than me.

So yeah, ultras are intriguing.

It's funny because of the just the cultural difference, right?

Like I classify myself as like an uptight Roadrunner.

I've like got my watch.

I've got like all my stuff and I like real nervous at every start line and I'm, you know, particular about certain things.

1:05:51

And then you have ultra runners and trail runners who are just like.

They remind me of like, California skateboarders, you know what I mean?

Who just have no stress.

They're like, yeah, I'm.

Just going to go run.

Exactly.

Yeah, they're.

Like how does that feel?

1:06:06

Because I don't know.

So I think it would be really good for me.

It's a combination of my two favorite things, nature and running.

Yeah, yeah, I love it.

I mean, I do like trail running.

I love it.

I love being like you have to be sharp with your thoughts, you know, on where to place your place, your feet.

1:06:26

I just really like it.

Yeah.

So we'll see.

OK, well, maybe we'll be at an Ultra in December.

Bring me back.

Yeah, I wanted to ask you about the Long run the documentary.

Yes.

Is that available somewhere for people to?

Watch I feel like it might be, but I.

1:06:41

Looked on YouTube, I'd like search like long run.

I forget what they call it like your second.

Life the long run W Doty's second.

Life, I think that's what it was called.

It might be.

I mean, honestly, I'm not positive.

We need to find it cuz I wanted to watch it and then I couldn't find it.

1:06:59

But that's happened to me before where I've looked for something and.

I might be able to find it and send it to you.

Yeah, I would love it.

Yeah, it was.

It was.

I did a speech at Path 1 of Pathway's main fundraisers.

OK, it was in front of the governor.

Get out of here.

And he was there recording I think audio 4/4 pathway I think.

1:07:21

But he after he was there and he heard my speech, he was like, I think an idea popped into his head and he wanted to and he wanted to do a like a short film with me.

So he followed me around for like a year and I just did interviews and it's pretty cool.

1:07:40

He went back to like the house I grew up in, actual house.

Like for B roll.

He did actual like places that I was outside at, sleeping outside, right?

So people could try to like.

He drove up to the boys school in LaPorte and did B roll up there?

1:07:55

Yeah.

It's pretty cool.

I mean, it's really incredible.

But he focused on, yeah, my journey of, you know, my addiction and then how running helped me overcome that.

Yeah.

Were you nervous for that speech?

Yeah, yeah.

As soon as I started speaking, I was very nervous.

1:08:12

And that as soon as I started speaking though, I, I calmed down, yeah.

And I was good at it.

Yeah, I I can do this like one-on-one real.

It's not, I don't, it's not.

I'm not nervous.

But when I get in like front of people, public speaking, I literally I will take Benadryl so I don't break out and hide.

1:08:30

That's how.

Nervous.

I get.

I know I get it.

Same.

I don't like it.

I don't know why, because now it's like, who cares?

Like, I don't know.

But I just always have had that.

And I think a lot of people are don't love public speaking.

So I don't think it's, you know, abnormal.

But yeah, I would imagine speaking in front of the governor, like, OK, I really don't want to mess this up for.

1:08:53

Yeah.

How long did you speak for?

It was.

Like maybe 5-10 minutes.

Yeah, he was dressed in all denim, denim jeans, denim jacket.

Oh my God, yeah, he's like 65.

Canadian Tuxedo.

I was just shaking his hand.

You're like, that's back with my head, Yeah.

That's that's wild.

1:09:09

Yep.

Wow.

OK.

And that's how that documentary came to be.

That's really neat.

Yep.

Well, if you can, if you can find it somewhere, I can.

I'll share it.

OK.

And I certainly just want to be able to watch it.

Yeah, because that's really neat.

It's it is good.

1:09:24

That's a good one.

All right, well, I'm going to ask you the end of the podcast questions I don't want.

I don't.

I mean, I could always just talk forever.

All right, so first question is your favorite running song and or mantra?

1:09:40

Well, my favorite song to listen to when I'm running is One Last Breath by Creed.

OK, you know the.

Song I'm probably do.

I'm trying to think of how it goes.

I don't but.

Worth the?

1:09:55

Shot anytime that song comes on and I'm while I'm running, it doesn't matter what shape I'm in, I am dipping under 6 minute miles.

Yeah, no matter what, it's it's a song that takes me back to where I was, right.

It's just a very good and it just makes me grateful.

1:10:13

I think that's what I run really good whenever I'm just, you know, emotional.

It's so weird.

Like from gratitude, though emotional from gratitude and then mantra just saying.

Yeah, like, what are you like in your mind?

What are you telling yourself when it's hard?

1:10:30

Oh, I just, I mean, I just tell myself that.

Can I tell this story real quick?

This is.

Amazing, absolutely incredible story that I have.

So I'm like 4 years sober at this point and I was just running.

It was during the day in the morning, mid morning, and I'm running downtown and, and I'm running by the places that I used to sleep in sleep at.

1:10:53

And I, I run, I'm running, listening to music.

And I run by this line of people standing outside this, this food, this soup kitchen that I used to stand in every morning.

And I recognized many people who were there when I was there.

1:11:12

And I remember making eye contact with a couple of them and wondering as I'm running by if they recognized me.

And just the just that it's just like the most spiritual experience that I remember having of gratitude just just from from just seeing where I was and then where I'm at and seeing the people that I was there with still there and they have no life in their eyes.

1:11:47

And I just.

Remember that.

Feeling like I was full of life running.

But yeah, that was, I mean, that was a amazing story that I, I tell people that, yeah, that's running by the places that I was sleeping at and then still seeing people that was out there with me, right, still out there.

1:12:05

Yeah.

Just dead inside.

You can see it in their eyes.

But I mean, I don't really have anything, anything I tell myself when I'm running.

Besides, I pray to God, OK, when I'm running and just say thank you so much for allowing me to be doing this.

1:12:24

Yeah, it's just incredible.

I shouldn't be here.

And actually this is another tangent, but I just I wanted to know how you you're now have a job like a normal, I'm going to use air quotes normal job.

How did that come to be?

1:12:40

Through a fundraiser for Back of My Feet, I was sitting at the same table with him.

He was like a donor to the back of my feet.

And yeah, my buddy Greg, shout out to Greg.

He'll be, he'll probably listen to this.

Hey, Greg.

Yeah, what's up Greg?

1:12:56

Yeah, I started and he was like gave me his card one day right after that fundraiser.

And he valet pulled up with his with his Range Rover and he said come to the office and check out what we do.

And I did and I've been there since.

It's a third party logistics company downtown.

1:13:15

It's really cool.

How long ago would that have been?

How much?

6 going six years.

Wow.

Yep.

So I've been there for about a little over six years going on 7.

That's awesome.

That's amazing.

That's what I do now.

Yeah, see you're, you're boring and old and old and normal now.

1:13:31

Yes, sorry you have a real job.

No, you're not.

And then next finish liner milestone, we already mentioned monumental.

Monumental and then possibly some ultra, some ultras.

Are there any like big races out there that you dream?

1:13:46

Of I wanted, I would love to do all six.

No, you have a major.

Soon to be 7.

Right.

And maybe 8 I saw like Shanghai's now on the list.

I'm like, how many are we going to have here?

People?

Let's.

Bring them, but you need to.

You need to start making more money.

1:14:02

Right.

I'm like, how do Yeah, it's like, how do you people afford this?

Or I can just.

Yeah, somehow fundraise.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wes, thank you so much for doing this.

No problem.

And thank you for being part of our running community here.

Yeah, absolutely incredible.

Thank you.

Thank you.

1:14:17

Thanks for having me.

And.

Thanks everybody who's listened and happy running.

You've enjoyed this episode of Finish lines and milestones.

Please follow share great review and you can follow me on Instagram on at ALOY.

1:14:33

Team.

Brett BRUTT under score Rockets.

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