Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 81

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This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast that celebrates the everyday runner.

I'm your host, Ali Brettnacher.

Whether you're a season marathoner, half marathoner, ultra marathoner, prefer shorter distances or just getting started, if you run, you are a runner.

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And every runner has a story.

Join me each week as I share these stories and we cross finish lines and celebrate milestones together.

This podcast is brought to you by Athlete Bouquets.

Celebrate the finish lines and milestones of the people you love by visiting athletebouquets.com.

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Use code podcast for 10% off your order.

Hello and welcome to episode 81.

This is Allie.

Welcome to anybody who might be new here.

Thanks to Sandy Boy Productions, Finish Lines and Milestones is now part of that amazing podcast network that is founded and run by Lindsay Heine, who is the host of the all have another podcast with Lindsay Heine.

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And I've had the pleasure of knowing Lindsay for years and just thrilled to be working with her.

So welcome to everybody new, and of course, thank you to everybody who continues to listen week over week.

Congratulations to everybody who ran New York this past weekend.

1:18

The New York City Marathon is such a magical event.

I was lucky enough to have an opportunity to run for Alex's Lemonade Stand back in 2018.

It was my first full marathon after becoming a mom of two, and it was awesome.

1:34

It was awesome.

So I hope everybody had an equally amazing experience in New York and now all sites turn to Indianapolis this weekend.

So I am from the Indianapolis area and our biggest marathon takes place on November 9th this year, which which is the day after this episode comes out.

1:53

So I've been stalking the weather.

Hourly forecast is now out and it looks pretty nice.

I am running the full marathon this year.

It will be my second time running our full marathon.

I've done the half a handful of times.

I did the full back in 2022, so a couple years ago and it was really, really windy and rainy and just not great.

2:14

So I'm super thrilled with the weather.

Could be a touch cooler, but I really cannot complain.

And I'm going for APR, which means a sub 3357A, sub 357, which, you know, based on my training, based on the plan that my coach has outlined for me, should be very doable.

2:31

So I have the pleasure of being joined by my friend Ashley Haynes, who was on this podcast previously.

She is a trail runner by nature and she will only road race with me.

I guess I don't know, but she's just incredible.

She paced me during my half last year at Monumental where I was able to PR.

2:51

And so I'm hoping for the same now this year with with the full and Ashley and I get to stay the night downtown at Bottleworks, which is a really, really cool district of downtown Indianapolis.

This hotel is just incredible and I'm so grateful for their hospitality.

3:06

It has now become the place that I get to stay before races.

And I love going to the garage food hall, getting pizza and beer the night before and then going back to the garage for a cheeseburger and a beer and or milkshake after a race.

So really looking forward to this weekend.

3:24

I am a part of our board of directors, and so I'm volunteering both Thursday and Friday at the Expo, and then I have the honor and privilege of moderating our elite athlete panel on Friday at 3:30.

I'm hoping that I'll have that recorded so that I can share it with all of you who won't be in town.

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But I am lucky enough to be able to interview Sarah Hall.

Holy shit, Erica Kemp and Stephanie Sherman, so this will be amazing.

I'm so nervous to be honest, but I am working on transitioning my nerves into just pure excitement.

3:59

What a cool opportunity.

And then Cole Hawker will take the stage after and be interviewed by Matt Ebersol from Personal Best Training PBT, also a big name here in Indianapolis.

And if you don't know who Cole Hawker is, he won the gold medal in Paris in the 1500 and he's originally from Indianapolis.

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So we get to bring him home and have him as part of our event.

He is not running the event, at least not to my knowledge.

But he will be around.

And so a lot of us will have the opportunity to meet him, which is also crazy.

So, so much adrenaline heading into the weekend.

I feel so lucky to be a part of it.

4:33

And I just can't wait to see what happens, what I can do.

So thank you to my coach, Rachel Senders, for getting me ready.

And thank you to my husband for the support over this training cycle, even though he won't hear this, and for watching the kids while I go run.

And then this week's guest actually is a former champion of the Indianapolis Monumental Marathon.

4:53

She won the race in 2010.

It was actually the year I did my very first marathon, but that was in Chicago.

But Jackie is not a pro.

She's never been a pro runner, right?

This podcast is for the everyday runner.

She's probably a little bit more than an everyday runner because she's qualified for the Olympic Trials marathon more than once.

5:14

And it's crazy that the first time she participated in the Olympic Trials marathon, she actually came in last place.

And so we talk about that experience and I love her perspective.

And then the next race she does was the Indian monumental and then she came in first place.

5:31

So I just love her attitude about everything.

She doesn't run as much anymore really because of an injury that she suffered.

So we talked about that.

And she also has a business called Nutrition Success that's been in business for nearly 20 years.

5:48

And also her and her husband own a brewery restaurant here in Central IN that's excellent Field Brewing.

So we talked about that journey too.

So I really hope you all enjoy this conversation with Jackie Dykas.

Hello, Jackie.

6:05

Hello, Allie.

Jackie Dykas.

Yeah.

Wow, welcome.

Thank you for doing this.

Thank you.

I appreciate you considering me a resource for this.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I can't believe we met at our very first Expo, both of us.

6:21

Yes, that was fun.

Yeah, doing an Expo, I should say, not race Expo, been to both of us, have been to many of those probably, but.

I was glad I was paired next to someone good.

Oh, you're you're.

So nice.

It was really fun.

So that was at the Carmel Marathon in April.

Yeah.

6:37

That's so wild.

So small world this this world is.

And you were selling your cookbook and book about fueling for marathons.

Yeah.

And yeah, we just, we didn't chat it the whole lot 'cause it was so busy.

Yeah, it was a good day.

6:53

I expected to be sitting there like twiddling my thumbs for part of it, but I don't think that ever happened.

Yeah, it's it stayed steady the entire time.

Yeah, it was fun.

So why did you pick that to be your first Expo?

Because you've you've, you've had your business for a really long time.

Yeah, I've gone in waves of, you know, the just kind of kicking off.

7:10

We, my husband and I opened a restaurant and brewery.

I can't wait to hear more about that.

Well, thank you.

But I had a period where I was dedicating a good amount of time to that too.

And, you know, between COVID in there and things like that, there were just some obstacles with that that influenced my nutrition business.

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And so I was, you know, wanting to really promote again and make sure I got my name out there again after some time of, you know, split time a little bit more.

So this was one of the events and I've never tried.

I, I do a lot of word of mouth.

I just get referrals that way.

And I thought, why not try that Expo concept and see if there's, you know, a return on investment with it.

7:49

And you know, I dabbled with Carmel Marathon as my first go.

Yeah, and how did it go overall?

I think it was fair.

OK.

Yeah, I think I have other outlets that maybe are better, better suited for me.

Yeah, but it wouldn't, I wouldn't rule it out ever again.

8:05

I mean, it was still nice.

Yeah, Expose I it's funny because for my for my business, for people who don't know, I have a run gifting business.

And so, yeah, it's a great place to be.

It's a.

Perfect place to be, but I've kind of avoided doing it because usually race Expos are on the weekends or you know, and I just, you know, selfishly want to be with my family or doing something else and also don't want to put that on my husband who, you know, works a normal full time job.

8:31

Yeah, that's definitely part of it.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

And then I can't remember.

Did you run the race at all?

No, I haven't raced in a while.

Honestly.

I've I had a big surgery on my foot about six years ago and you know, since then I just I haven't gotten back the drive to actually race.

8:47

I think there's part of me that's once what I used to do and it's really hard to not be able to do that anymore.

I just don't have the same foot.

I don't have the same gait the.

Same push off I'm.

Just completely different and maybe I'll get there.

I'm just not there yet.

9:03

It's not something that at this moment brings me joy.

It's not something I look forward to in the way that I used to.

And I think there's part of you that I was always attached to that.

Yes.

It's hard to let go.

Yeah.

But you know, I I'm getting strength back in my foot.

I've reached a new level.

9:18

I've gone through waves where my foot has gotten really bad and then gotten better and really bad.

Now I feel like I finally got over.

I had some scar tissue move and I feel like I'm in a different spot now.

So I'm really getting, you know, some traction again.

Maybe I'll double back to fun racing again, but the kids age, my kids are at just everything.

9:38

It just hasn't been, you know, where I wanted to put my goals.

Yeah, yeah.

No, that makes sense.

And I want to dig deeper into that because I feel like there's a lot to unpack there with when your whole life is wrapped up in the sport and then all of a sudden it's not.

So we'll we'll get to that.

I do want to back up and talk about kind of who who you are in terms of like where you're from.

9:58

Are you from this area?

How did you grow up?

You know, did you play sports and run when you were younger?

So tell me, are you from Indiana?

I'm.

Originally, OK, you're.

Cincinnati, OK, no.

So I'm I'm one of nine.

You're one of nine.

Yeah, I have a big family.

They're amazing.

10:14

That is unbelievable.

Yeah, but as one of nine, imagine that today.

Parents, just my parents, couldn't run everyone around to sporting events.

So sports were not you?

Just had your own team.

At all of focus in my home, yeah.

I mean, we'd play in the backyard and have our own games for sure.

10:31

But I if we want to do sports, it was kind of an independent thing.

You had to figure it out on your own because my parents were, you know, pulled in a lot of other directions.

So I played volleyball I think maybe my 7th grade year because I could walk to practice from the home we lived at that time, for example.

10:48

Yeah.

So I thought about volleyball going into high school and my sister ran cross country and I was like, I don't know if I'm going to do this volleyball thing.

I felt like I started kind of late compared to my peers in terms of volleyball.

So I started running.

And it's just one of those things that I realized I was pretty good at it.

11:08

So I fell in love with it just because of that.

And literally, I mean, back in that time I had, I remember getting in trouble or not in trouble, just heat from other team mates because there was this summer mileage club.

And I won it often literally because I had to run to practice and sometimes I'd run home.

11:27

So it was just, I was like.

I'm not trying to win, I'm just trying to be.

What can you do?

Yeah, yeah.

But that's just like the environment that, you know, working home.

How do you get there?

Yeah, I don't know.

That's just how I did it.

We weren't that far.

It was about a mile.

Was going to ask you.

11:43

So it's not like super far.

It was like a warm up, you know, but.

That's not too bad.

You'd be like 06 miles.

Yeah.

Feel like.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

And I just thought of it as a good way to tack on a little extra miles for the.

I mean, that was for sure part of it, but it wasn't.

I mean, there were a lot of days I didn't want to run to practice.

11:59

Right, I'm sure I'm.

Sure.

Yeah.

And then I had a pretty successful high school career.

Nothing crazy, though.

I didn't run in state individually one time.

OK, not in cross country.

I didn't track.

OK, I was going to ask if you did both.

Yeah, mostly people do.

12:14

But yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I ran for the University of Cincinnati.

I was fortunate to get, you know, an opportunity to run there.

And I've looking back, I was just a college student.

I was having a good time.

I had a lot of great friends in the track and cross country team and I just enjoyed it.

12:31

I could have pushed myself probably more in hindsight and maybe had a little more confidence in myself ultimately that I could compete with other people there.

But I just, I did my thing.

I, you know, I had a really good experience.

I wouldn't trade any of that for the world to be more competitive.

12:46

And then I got married right out of college.

I was technically 21 on my wedding day because my husband was in Med school.

So I, you know, we knew we wanted to be together.

So I, he was in, at IU medical school in Gary, IN and so we married.

13:03

I know they have 9 campuses.

So that's one of the campuses he was at.

No, I did not know that they had a campus in Gary.

That's.

It was a little scary.

I mean scary.

Gary is what I think of.

I remember when he, because he was there my senior year of college and calling home and he had a subway given to him through bulletproof like glass.

13:22

Like, you know, when you go to the bank and they kind of that's the same setup.

And I was like, Oh my gosh, where am I moving to?

But I ended up great.

We lived in Portage, so not not far.

OK.

So yeah, you guys lived in Gary.

Portage just outside of it.

Yeah, well, he was there two years.

13:38

So the first year he did on his own.

And then we got married during like a summer break and then we lived there our first year.

And that was my first Chicago Marathon.

You know, we lived right there.

It's kind of funny we, you know, you, I was young, I was 22.

13:54

I didn't know any difference.

So we did like, remember when Priceline was a thing and you'd get really cheap?

Oh.

Yeah, so that's how we worked.

And we would just go to Chicago for a $50 stay and it would, you know, just enjoy things like that.

And I didn't plan ahead for Chicago Marathon because I thought, oh, I'll just do my Priceline thing.

14:12

And we went last minute.

I was even thinking about just driving from where we lived and we ended up with a hotel with a mirror on the ceiling.

Perfect.

Oh my gosh.

That's one of those memories you take away.

Like, wow, that was I laid in bed in my clothes on top of the covers.

Like, it's just so funny.

14:29

Yeah.

Usually, at least for me, I don't get great sleep the night before a race ever.

But like the idea that when you open your eyes, you, like, see yourself.

Yeah.

Feeling.

It was just honestly, I could just keep sharing stories on that.

It was just so funny.

But.

14:44

Was it like where was it?

Yeah, it actually, I mean, it was close enough that I could run to the OR you know, how go to the starting line.

So we still got close, but it wasn't like, you know, a sellout kind of hotel.

Yeah.

Oh God.

Yeah.

So for anyone who.

Yeah, yeah.

14:59

But so since we lived so close, I did the Chicago Marathon and that I did in a 3:15 that year, OK.

And I.

What year was that?

2001 OK And I, you know, I just ran kind of the same mileage.

I probably like high school type mileage.

15:16

It wasn't anything, you know, I did the Hal Higdon.

Yeah, yeah.

That's.

What I beginner like, you know, just, I was just enjoying it and we moved to Indianapolis for part of my husband's training and right out of college, I did major in dietetics, but I, I didn't pursue the you have to do an internship to become a registered dietitian.

15:34

And we just, I knew I wanted to get married.

For some reason, my program didn't make me think I need to do that next step.

I don't know what the exact reason, but so I moved when we moved to Indianapolis for the other part of my husband's training, I pursued a becoming getting my internship and I became a registered diet at that time.

15:54

And we had our first son.

And it wasn't till after we had our first son that I was like, yeah, I'm going to deal with, you know, seeing what I can do with running again.

And I, you know, did the whole ran pregnant when for the mini thing, It was the next year, like within his first year that I ran the mini again.

16:12

And I ran it pretty well.

And I ended up meeting Matt Ebersol after the around the time of that race.

And he's like, hey, you know, you've virtually gave me the confidence to say I, if that's what you can do on that.

Just there's so much potential out there.

And he's probably one of the most influential people ever for, you know, my life in general.

16:31

But in terms of my running career, he, I feel like he was my confidence booster.

And then after that race, he worked me up from, you know, basic mileage to 90 miles a week for the Chicago Marathon that fall.

And I qualified to the Olympic trials.

Jesus.

So I think if I got my timeline right, sorry.

16:50

Yeah, no.

I'm getting old.

Yeah, I have a yeah.

I often say I have a horrible memory, which I do.

So like I look back to my, like, race spreadsheet.

So I like know when things happened or like back in my pictures.

I have no idea.

But I did want to point out, too, for people who do not know who Matt Eversall is, he will be on this podcast at some point because I did corner him at the Indie Women's.

17:10

And I was like, hi, I don't think you know me, but a lot of people want want you to be on this podcast and you've got to be.

And so, yeah, hopefully soon.

But he owns PBT, which is personal best training.

Yeah.

So.

And how long has he been doing that then?

So what?

17:25

When did you start working with him?

So that was probably 2005, OK is when I started working with him and I worked for him competitively for about 10 years.

Probably OK somewhere around there.

Yeah, I don't know.

He just fit exactly what I needed at the time because I was, you know, a mom who is managing a schedule with a husband with residency and a very demanding lifestyle.

17:47

And I felt like he just molded it and gave me options that felt doable, approachable, just gave me confidence to say, I don't know, just see what your body can do.

And I, that's just what I needed.

Nothing too high pressure, nothing forced.

It just was, you know, a great testament to seeing what my body could do.

18:04

Yeah, qualifying for the Olympic Trials.

How many marathons had you done up until that point?

So you'd at least done the One Chicago in 2001 as your first marathon.

Yeah, forgive me, I things blur, but I think I did Chicago.

I did it At least I ran a couple 2-3 fifteens, OK.

18:20

And then I had a 30 minute drop to 2:45.

Yeah.

Jesus.

Yeah.

And I really think it, I mean, a lot of it is the head game and just believing in yourself.

Honestly, I lacked that, I think for, I don't know.

I don't know what was missing for me.

Something about my son was extremely motivating to me.

18:38

That's cool.

Running with him gave me so much joy.

We'd play games like, I don't know, I just, I fell in love with running on a different level than I ever had before.

That's really cool.

How old was he when you qualified for the Olympic Trials?

I had him in September of 2004, so just over a year.

18:55

OK, Yeah, OK.

If I yeah, I think that's my right now.

OK.

Sorry if I'm thinking years that I'm thinking.

Like OK, the Olympic Trials actual marathon was in 2008, so you qualified in 2005.

Gosh, sorry if I should have looked back it might have been 2006.

19:12

Well, I mean close enough.

I mean, it's some aren't going to go out and like prove that you 1000.

For spring, yeah, I'm pretty sure it was 2005.

OK, I'd have to look at my exact.

He's just over a year old.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

How do you remember how long you were able to run when you were pregnant?

With my first son I ran till about like 30-7 weeks.

19:32

Wow.

Yeah.

And then I felt some, you know, some contractions and I was like, what is this?

But with my other son I literally went for a three mile run before I was induced.

Yeah.

So things are different now.

You see people just doing wild things, wild things.

It's amazing.

Yeah, well, I did 2 with my two half marathons with my when I was pregnant with my first daughter, I did the Austin Half Marathon down in Texas, which was very hard pregnant.

19:57

Yeah.

And then and then the mini up here in Indianapolis and yeah, I think I was like 24 weeks or something like that.

It's still amazing.

It's really amazing, Yeah.

You could tell I was pregnant, but I didn't make it much beyond that.

Yeah.

That's OK.

Which is, yeah, it was fine.

20:13

And then with my second I'd, I would run and I did a lot of Peloton, but I didn't, I didn't do any races, I don't think.

I think there's like, that's just what your body was calling for.

Then I think there's an element of healing and saying, you know what, it's OK if you don't too.

So I don't know.

My second son, I just, I lucked out is what I feel like.

20:31

I mean, it just went really smooth.

And my first son, I was, I had a lot of worry because that was still the time They're like, don't get your heart rate too high.

And so I think I was just always, you know, didn't want to do anything wrong.

Yeah.

But you get a little more confidence later.

But some pregnancies just don't end up as great as others, I think.

20:48

And I, I think it's a natural to say, hey, you know what, My body's calling me to rest right now and I'm going to respect.

That not going to do that.

Yeah.

And so did your husband bring your son to Chicago when you ran?

Yeah, how cool is that?

21:04

I mean, there's so much emotional ties there.

I'm sure you as a mom, you feel all the all the stuff.

But you know, even to this day, like if I had to say, Hey, I'm really proud of something.

It's part of me is the example.

I could, you know, hopefully in some way lead for my kids.

21:20

You know, just more so not you have to be something great or anything like that, but it's like no test your body, see what you can do and don't give up on yourself.

All that kind of good stuff.

Yeah, and your oldest son, which son plays at Miami of Ohio?

My oldest son.

Oldest son?

21:35

Yeah, he's a sophomore at Miami.

OK, yeah, because I went to Miami.

Ohio, Did you told you that?

No, you didn't.

The.

Reason I saw these family pictures of you wearing all this Miami, Ohio stuff and I'm like, Oh my gosh, yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm from Cincinnati, so there's a little bit of that.

There you go.

Not too far.

Yeah, And I was curious.

21:51

I was like, I wonder if Jackie went to Miami of Ohio.

But yeah, then I saw you went to Cincinnati.

Yeah.

Which they're like, I feel like there's so many people that end up at Miami, OH, from Cincinnati.

Yeah.

And now more and more from this area just because it's become more well known.

Yeah.

When I went, I feel like I had never heard of it before when I went and visited the campus, but now that's I think, a lot different.

22:11

It's incredible, the campus, everything.

I just, I, I love it.

Did you love going there?

Loved it.

Loved my time there.

Yeah.

You just, when you go on that campus, you just fall in love.

It's like literally out of a movie.

And they did actually film a movie there, like after I graduated.

22:26

But it was.

Yeah.

It was just great.

Good school, too.

Yeah.

It really is.

And so it was.

It's so funny.

Like looking back, it's like that bubble of Oxford.

OH, because it's this tiny town.

Yeah.

But it was really mad magical, yeah.

Yeah.

So now I'm at the stage where it's really fun watching him.

22:43

He plays football.

Yeah.

So just, you know, seeing him work hard and try to accomplish what he wants from life, it's a lot of fun.

It's it's a weird stage to be at where they're not as dependent on you.

Right, I can only.

Imagine it's a different stage that still is.

I don't know, every stage is great, but it's a lot of fun seeing them developing into who they want to be.

23:02

Yeah, and how?

How?

What's the difference between your two sons?

I have a sophomore in high school.

OK.

Yeah, like four years.

Yeah, honestly, it's Olympic trials.

That's.

Really.

Great.

Yeah, that's the gap.

That makes sense.

Yeah, I definitely, I think we, we thought maybe we'd have a bigger family and things like that.

23:20

And I admit that running was influential on.

That yeah, yeah.

Well, coming from, I mean one of nine.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm the, yeah.

Where do you fall in that order?

I'm seven, yeah, but I have siblings like my, my, my siblings have a lot of kids.

23:36

Like, it's just, I feel like there's a few of us with smaller families and for a while it was like, you don't want more.

You know, the kind of, yeah.

Not that they would ever judge per SE, but it's just naturally you get accustomed to you wanting a house full of a lot of voices in love.

I guess I could.

23:52

Totally.

Picture that.

Are your parents still living?

Yeah, yeah.

Where are they?

In Cincinnati.

They're in Cincinnati.

OK, yeah, God, your momma's been pregnant for like, her whole life.

I agree, I don't.

Even know I just can't.

My mom's one of six, and to me, that's like, a lot.

I Yeah 9.

24:08

Why do I go for double digits?

My father-in-law, he's one of 13.

I I don't even know how you do that.

Wow.

Are you guys Catholic?

Yeah.

OK, that makes more sense too.

Well, I'm Catholic, so I can say that, yes.

But it's like, Yep, Catholic family check all the children.

Yeah.

24:23

OK.

So do do your sons run at all or do any of your siblings run?

My brother runs.

We've had some fun together at different races over the years.

That's fun.

So my brother is shooting, for all you know, marathon in 50 states.

So.

I think he's getting close.

24:40

I feel like he's in the 40s now maybe, But outside of that, not a whole lot of running.

My my little sister runs.

Actually, she does probably more now than I I think she goes through years where it goes up and down a little bit.

She's got her own family and goals she's been working towards too, but she runs some.

24:55

But it's not like something in our families.

My sons for sure won't.

They're football, baseball, you know.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Never say never.

Yeah.

But I think after they would kind of have fun with maybe trails or something like that.

But yeah.

Yeah, that's so funny.

25:10

So you're 7 so when you say 7 bought it like closer to the youngest or the oldest?

Closer to the youngest.

OK, because that would you were the 7th one.

Yeah, not the yeah, OK, sorry.

That's just so many kids.

It is a lot, yeah.

So you just have you have two younger siblings.

Yeah.

OK.

25:26

And how many boys versus how many girls?

There's 6.

Girls and three boys.

Wow.

Yeah.

And is everybody like in this area?

No, they're all in Cincinnati.

All of them.

People from Cincinnati don't really leave, okay, is what I feel like.

25:41

Even a lot of my college friends stayed close to Cincinnati.

It's just a place that I don't feel like people leave easily.

Interesting.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a cool city, but that's interesting.

And have you done the Flying pig?

No, because I didn't.

I was stalking your athletes, which is somewhat accurate for the most part, but I know that it's not like perfect So but I didn't see flying Pig on there, I realize.

26:06

You know what?

I ran in that hilly city enough that I think once I moved to Indiana and realized there's flat areas the world to run.

Yeah, you're like that.

I just embraced it.

And I admit, probably every marathon was flat that I would shoot for.

Right, because.

Cincinnati's tough to train in all the time time running at University of Cincinnati.

26:24

It's on a major hill where you run into about that.

I mean, it's just a climb back every run.

So I don't know.

For whatever reason, I was just kind of over.

I understand that now.

Yeah, that's perfectly fair.

Especially when a lot of what you did was competitive and racing.

26:41

So you wouldn't, like, seek out a hilly course, even if it's by your family.

You'd just go, yeah, you want right over here in Indy, where Indy where it's nice and pancake fly.

Yeah, and I don't know, I I think I will forever have a crush on Monumental.

It's just such a nice course.

26:56

It takes you through my favorite parts of town.

You get to see so much of the city.

I just, I don't know, I I would argue I I didn't run flying Pig, but Monumental is such a nice home course.

Yes, we are so lucky to have such a wonderful marathon here.

In our backyard, yeah.

27:12

Yeah.

And I'm a little biased now since I like work on our board, but.

Yeah.

But still, I mean, it's true.

That's why it's that's why the attendance just keeps growing and growing.

And I wonder what it'll be 10 more years from now.

Same.

I'm so excited to see what we can do.

I want to get back to Olympic trials because I, I know something about you and Monumental that's pretty cool.

27:31

But that's, I think after your first Olympic trials.

So for people who don't know how Olympic Trials stuff might work because you're a little bit above average, this is like for the everyday runner and you're probably a little outside that, I would say.

27:47

So how does it work the Olympic Trials like the window for when you qualify?

Could you just kind of explain that for people who might not be familiar?

Yeah, I might be rusty a little on everything because it's changed even since when it from when I did it.

But at the end of the day, you have to hit a qualifying time to participate in the Olympic trials.

28:04

And at the time when I was running, it was 246 or 245 between the two marathons I ran.

Now it's gotten a much steeper with a 237 I believe is what it is now.

But yeah, there's a qualification period and if you qualify within that time frame then you are eligible to toe the line for the Olympic Trials marathon.

28:23

If you don't hit that mark, then.

You're not, You're not.

So is it that whole like time between Olympics that it's open or is it certain?

I don't remember that it wasn't the entire time between, I want to say it was like maybe 2 1/2 years or somewhere in that ballpark that you had because I remember, you know, that's part of the, the family planning part.

28:42

I mean, you qualify and I qualified and it was a couple years before the actual marathon.

So it's kind of like what do you do in that time frame?

And honestly, I just described, I mean, in high school I was above average.

I won races and things like that, but I wasn't like, you know, the national competitive person.

29:03

And in college I did, you know, I did fine, but I, again, I wasn't national caliber at that time.

So to feel like, boy, I made the Olympic trials on this national stage that I didn't know I even had in me.

It was just, I wanted to see what I could do.

I was just at this point just so curious.

29:19

We'll just call it that because I knew I wasn't going to win it.

But boy, to be part of it is just such an honor for someone, for those of us that aren't the, you know, top level elites.

That like the.

Move on.

Yeah.

So to be there, I was just, I don't know, I'm so honored.

29:35

So to make it was just a level of accomplishment deep down that you keep craving.

So I trained honestly, I thought my training was strong leading up.

Matt guided me well.

I admit there may be moments where I probably could have been a little more honest with him in terms of what I was feeling and maybe tired and maybe overdoing it.

29:54

But I ended up before the Olympic trials in 2008 with a high hamstring injury that was so hard to navigate.

It happened I think maybe like 2 1/2 weeks before the marathon.

So I got eligible to get an injection basically in my hamstring to allow me to tow the line.

30:13

And I towed the line, but I, I wasn't anywhere near 100%.

So it, you know, when you wait that long, you, you know, I just mentioned family planning kind of adjusted over it.

It just feels like, boy, am I letting down other people too.

There's a lot of guilt, but at the end of the day I was like, you know, I did it.

30:31

I want to prove that I did it.

So I wanted that finishers medal and it didn't matter to me how I was going to do it.

So I ran that day.

And you know what, I think I don't know if I've got this right, but sometimes I feel like there's a level of I don't know the word I'm looking for.

30:48

But you know, it's hard to finish last in a race when you're used to being at the, the front, let's just say.

And I could feel people dropping out over and over behind me.

It's like no one wanted to be that person.

No one wanted to have the police escort, you know what I mean?

And then finally the police escort got to me and I said, I don't know, I want my finisher's medal.

31:07

So I'm, I'm doing this.

So I, I at the moment, I remember feeling like, boy, I mean, thanks so much for the people cheering right now, but I don't feel like myself, you know, but to just be part of it all.

I mean, people were so kind to the enthusiasm.

31:24

And that's the year Joan Benoit was in the race.

And to be beside her, like I loved every second of it, no matter where I was.

And I know that sometimes it's hard to be in that position, but boy, was it just so amazing on so many levels.

Like it doesn't matter where you really finish, you know, just to be there and get that finishers medal was the only thing I could think about.

31:44

And now I have that.

Like I finished last and I, I, I felt some guilt, not because I finished last, but because I, I felt like I, I had this, you know, I had big goals to finish.

Well, we thought, we thought I was, you know, on track to do something really cool and to change family planning and things like that, you know, just kind of those things.

32:05

So it left me unsettled.

I'll say I love the experience.

I'm so proud of finishing last.

I shared a lot because you know what the, I mean?

There's so much growth you get from experiences like that regardless, but it did leave me wanting more.

So after, after that, we got pregnant right away with our next child.

32:23

Thank goodness.

Too you were able.

To like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

On it, no.

We were fortunate for sure.

It's not that's not easy for everyone.

But after that, I did want to try again.

So I, you know, got back to training and I was fortunate to run through a lot of my pregnancy and it was at the Monumental Marathon.

32:42

Jesse Davis helped pace me, which I appreciate very much.

And Matt ever saw coached me.

But I, I won the monumental and I qualified again.

And honestly, that just felt like, OK, I, I did really belong there because there was some doubt.

Like, oh dude, was it a fluke?

32:58

Like, I don't know.

But to know that I, I did it again just felt like, OK, now I can prove it to myself all over again.

It's really about you, because nobody else cares.

I love to say that no one cares if nobody does.

Except for you.

Really.

Yeah.

But why not keep striving for the goals and the drive?

That's kind of why we run and, and we toe the line for all these.

33:16

This is, it's just to bring out the best in ourselves.

So it was a lot of fun.

I'm, I'm glad I, I got back there again.

I had a much better performance.

Like I didn't run through too much.

You know, it overtrained quite the same as I did the first time.

Maybe I'll call it overtraining or just a random imagery, but I don't know.

33:35

It was so my whole family came to Houston for the next Olympic, Olympic trials.

I think everyone knew it meant a lot to me.

And to have all nine there, that was amazing.

Yeah, they they all came so.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah, it was a lot of fun, But did they?

All stay together in like a big group or they sprinkle out over the course.

33:52

There were big group sections, yeah.

There were a few that sprinkled out, but for sure probably bigger group, yeah.

Because if you're like, OK, like one every mile marker, yeah.

Switch and that would be fun.

See somebody every mile would be really cool.

Yeah.

I think it's just really cool, Jackie, that you went from finishing last in a race to then winning a race.

34:10

I mean, you finish last in the race.

It's like literally the best of the best.

So it's like, but it's still that's a it's a got to be a weird feeling.

Like you said, you're not in front like you're.

Used to.

It's not even.

I don't even think it's about the place per SE.

It was just so far off when, I mean, my time was like 25 minutes slower.

34:27

Like it was more than just last.

You know, if you knew you, you gave 100% and that was just you on that day.

Yeah, it's totally different.

It just felt like I, I don't know, it just fell out of place.

We'll say.

Yeah, yeah.

Unsettled.

And I could see that.

Yeah, business for sure.

Yeah, but I appreciate that.

34:43

I mean, it was a lot of fun.

And honestly, there's so many people that I felt like were part of the process that carried a lot of the memories along the way from the people you run with and train with all the time.

And just, I don't know, there's so much that comes together on that day that fills you with so much emotion beyond just the place.

34:58

Like, it's just, I don't know, I felt like I had a lot of people who had my back and who are on my side and supported me.

And you got just so grateful for those things.

Yeah.

How did it feel like breaking the tape?

So this is something like, I don't know if I'll ever do unless there's tape at like a very small town like race.

35:17

But how did that feel like winning?

Bonnie Mello And that was that. 2010, Yeah, 2010.

Yeah, 2010, I don't know.

I think even as you're running like close to the line, you're like, Oh my God, can I is this really happening?

Like, you know, is something going to happen?

35:32

And because at that moment I was, I think I ran a A2 4526 and I had to break the the 226 or 246, sorry, 24625 and I had to break 246 to be there.

So it was that kind of thing where, you know, at the end of a marathon, you're like, OK, 40 seconds or 35 seconds.

35:53

It's not that much, right?

So that those last miles, it's just like, I'm so close and I don't know, I just a great support system the whole time my husband was out on the course and Jesse was helping pace me the whole way to help me hit that mark.

So, you know, there's like, is this really happening type feeling?

36:10

And then you crossover and it just felt like everything I was carrying just lifted off my back.

Yeah.

It was such a such a neat experience.

I I don't even know if it's one of those forever memories.

Yeah.

Wow, that's so cool.

36:27

And then and then the trials were in Houston.

Where were the trials in 2008?

In Boston.

Boston, yeah, that's kind of cool.

Yeah, that's my excuse for never running Boston.

Right, you're like I have.

I've run the.

Olympics.

Kind of, yeah.

Yeah.

Was the course at all part of the Boston course or is it completely different?

Completely different loop.

36:42

Yeah, OK.

Yeah.

And for the Olympic trials, are they usually like a loop of some sort?

The ones I did were OK I think.

Feel like they're normally spectator friendly and then they try to mimic the the Olympic course.

OK.

Yeah, because I haven't been, I haven't been to the trials to.

I love to go spectate sometimes.

36:59

My coach went this February, whenever they were.

Yeah, yeah, that'd be really fun to go just.

Watch.

It's just neat.

Yeah.

On so many levels, Yeah.

And they're getting just faster and faster, so.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah.

So as you are doing all of this, so you're not a pro runner, right.

37:14

So you're doing what?

You're a mom, full time mom.

Do you have any of your.

I'm trying to think of the time frame of when you started Nutrition Success.

Yeah.

When did that come into the picture?

So I started my career as a dietitian at Saint Vincent Hospital.

I was a clinical dietitian there for five years.

37:31

So a lot of my training was, you know, before I went to work and right after I got home, I'd put my son on the stroller and I'd do double S that way, or I'd do something extra over a lunch at work or something like that.

And, and I eventually got an opportunity to do more side business.

37:46

A physician asked for some help.

So that's eventually what supported me branching out to my own practice.

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38:02

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And we moved to Seattle.

Let's see.

Yeah, we moved to Seattle and lived there for a year for my husband's training.

So that's when I stopped working clinical altogether because we made that move.

And that's when I officially, I was doing some running for some writing for Running Times Magazine.

38:22

At the time.

I just was building more side work anyway, so that's when I went all in with that.

The time frame we were in Seattle, by the time I got back, I took an exam basically and did some work to become a sports dietitian.

And I felt like the sports dietitian added another layer to that confidence.

38:42

I'm going to call it confidence more than anything else.

When it came to running.

It's kind of like when you toe the line and you're like, OK, I did all the training.

I got the nutrition I got, I checked all the boxes.

If I can't do it today, I don't know what else I could do.

Like you're bringing all of yourself.

And I felt like becoming a sports dietitian added that that extra layer of confidence to what I did that even supported that monumental finish that fall.

39:04

But so, yeah, we lived in Seattle in that timeframe.

And then ever since then, I've been supporting, you know, private practices.

A sports dietitian.

Yeah.

So I think it's interesting that you're you're moving a lot for your husband's job really, because you got married so young.

39:19

Because I'm like usually, you know, doctor, perhaps they would be all through Med school.

You just got married young.

And so then you're, you know, obviously with your husband when he's going to his next like residency or training level, he needs to be.

We did a lot.

We lived in Germany for it.

Did you?

Yeah.

Yeah, that.

39:35

Is so wild it would be hard to like figure out.

OK so yeah like getting a job when you know you're going to be there for only a year has to be kind of a weird so it makes sense to be able to do kind of your own thing.

Did did you think when you went to school and studied dietetics, was that something you aspire to do, like have your own thing?

39:53

Or did you visualize like working more in the clinical setting your whole career?

You know my program, you know, I'm proud of UC and I went went there for school, but something left a group of us not pursuing becoming a registered dietitian.

I think they brought in some speakers that covered like medical sales, working for flavor companies, basically jobs that you don't have to get.

40:15

That credential for and so I thought, oh, maybe I'll do medical sales or something like that.

So initially that was my thought process is I was going to do it, just build a career completely, not necessarily in dietetics specifically.

And then I after a while I just realized that's the only place I wanted to be, which is affirming because it, I had no doubt then.

40:35

But yeah, at the end of the day, my husband's schedule, I mean, first I'm super proud that we did it all together like that.

I feel like there's something that comes with that that's really.

Cool.

It's really hard.

Yeah, it is hard.

I mean, honestly, I don't, I don't know how he does it.

Yeah, he's just, he worked so hard and he put so much into everything.

40:53

And you know, there were times when we lived in Seattle, there was no cut off in the hours.

Now there's a cut off to an 80 hour work week.

At that time there were no hour cut off so they could work however long.

And I remember counting with some of the other wives that were there and there'd be like 110 hour weeks and he'd come home sometimes.

41:11

And you know, you could just, he was just exhausted.

So I feel like my role is I always just wanted to be the one that had all the stuff taken care of outside of that, that he could come home and just feel like we could be a family and he didn't have to worry about anything else.

So that was kind of where I felt like my purpose was.

41:29

And we had a lot of fun.

I mean, especially in Seattle, we had this book that had hikes within two hours of everywhere around Seattle.

And so every time he had a break, we'd find a hike and we just go there and we hike it with our kids.

So yeah, I don't know.

There's there were a lot of good times just doing the simple things.

41:44

Yeah.

Well, it's kind of neat to have some experiences outside of the Midwest, like being able to go do those things.

Yeah.

Did you live in Germany then with your kids while they were young?

I was pregnant with our second second so we had our our older son was about 5 at the time.

42:00

Wow.

Yeah.

Does he have any memories of that?

Just a few.

I don't think it's a whole lot.

Some of them we, he recalls when we say it back to him.

Yeah, but yeah, we were actually there for Oktoberfest, which was a lot of.

Fun.

Yeah, Yeah.

So where did you did you live in Munich then?

We were in Hanover, OK, so he had, it was just a eight week stretch where he was doing some training on in Hanover, Germany.

42:21

So we just took advantage of on the weekends.

He was thankfully pretty free so we were able to explore.

That's really cool.

Yeah, all of Germany that way and.

I don't know.

It was, Yeah, get a babysitter for Oktoberfest.

Yeah, yeah, I know.

Unfortunately, it wasn't that I was pregnant anyway.

42:36

Oh, that's right.

They bring kids.

So he was, he was at the table with us.

Yeah, yeah.

Oktoberfest is really neat.

It's different, different.

Culture.

I went in college, so I don't remember seeing any kids there, which is probably good.

Yeah, I don't.

Yeah, we were just in a tent.

I don't know, it's pretty low key where we were, but yeah.

42:53

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, boy.

Well, and I know a lot of people who run the Berlin Marathon back on a trip to Munich because it makes a lot of sense.

Yeah.

OK.

Back to dietics, though.

I want to know what drew you to that profession like when you were growing up.

I see.

Yeah.

I mean, I loved it forever.

43:09

I mean, in high school, to your point, I would talk about building my or having my own smoothie shop, you know?

Was your mom healthy eater?

Like, did she have like when she cooked for the, I mean, gosh, nine children?

Yeah, I, I wouldn't describe it.

It was kind of how do you get in survival mode?

43:24

Yeah, I, I remember being a cook at home with a lot of hamburger helpers and spaghetti.

Yeah.

I ate a lot of that.

Yeah.

So I can't say that there was that type of connection.

Just for whatever reason, I think I associated it more with running and just feeling the connection and there and, and seeing what I could do there.

43:41

And for some reason in high school I associated with a smoothie shop.

So but no, I think just something always, I don't know, there was just a deep drive that interests me.

And even now I feel like at any time there might be recreational books to read or things like that.

43:56

But I get far more stimulated just from learning more about nutrition because honestly, it's a, it's an open book.

It never ends.

So I don't know, it's just something, it's always been super exciting to me.

It's so interesting to me, and it's a huge, I've said this on this podcast before, like, it's a huge area of opportunity for me as an entity, as a mom.

44:20

Like the stuff I feed my kids.

There's a lot of guilt there at times because you're just, like, in survival mode, just trying to get them to eat something.

Yeah.

But like when that something is like chicken Nuggets in the air fryer, you're kind of like, I know I could be giving you like so much more.

I don't think there should be guilt with that.

44:37

I mean, I think a lot of times I think you're doing a good job.

Honestly.

I think sometimes stress just makes everything worse.

Anyway, That's fair.

So the way I like to describe it is if you're eating a pizza dinner and you have a pile of work around you and you're in a dark room and you're overwhelmed over a deadline, your body's going to even digest that differently than if you had a pizza meal in a park with your family, with the Creek nearby.

45:00

So sometimes when we just let go the stress around food, even that makes a difference for your health because if you're constantly, you know, got the stress hormones get out of whack, Your digestive enzymes get influenced.

Just there's so many things.

But yeah, there's like, you know, good, better, best.

45:17

We just try to try to find balance and everything we do, but I find a lot of times stress is what throws off so much of the imbalance in people's bodies anyway.

Yeah, yeah.

Did you ever have, I mean, particularly perhaps in high school and college, did you ever have an unhealthy relationship with food?

45:34

I wouldn't say that I I never really felt like it was unhealthy.

I think there were always the college setting where people would you could I spot the people that maybe were under feeling enough that they were deteriorating their bodies and things like that.

But I don't know.

45:49

I always felt pretty confident in my relationship with food.

I felt like I thought of it as fuel for the most part.

I felt like maybe good marketing was a little confusing in parts of my life where now I see it much differently today.

Like when I was younger it was fat free everything like no don't pretzels, eat as many as you want because it says fat free on the label for example.

46:10

Things like that.

And I feel like good marketing may be messed with my head at different points in my life that now I'm like.

Actually.

You know, none of that's true.

I'm going to eat all the eggs I want and bacon.

And, you know, I think that there's just a balance in having kind of the food from what God gave us or Mother Earth or whatever, whatever association you want to make, but that there's balance in just finding simplicity and Whole Foods versus having these boundaries over, you know, fats bad or this is, you know, just right when you let all that go.

46:45

So I would say, I don't know, maybe I'm blame shifting here, but I'm going to blame maybe some thoughts I had related to certain foods based on my education when I was younger that I thought I was falsely educated on, to be honest.

Yeah, I think so.

Now I just, I feel like it's a lot of the things when I was young are like, oh, sorry, we were wrong on that one, you know?

47:05

Yeah, so.

But outside of that, I don't know.

I, I love food.

I love everything about food.

I love that you can create things and put things together in a way that your body metabolizes them and is well fueled on them.

And you know, things just work better when those things happen.

47:20

So that's the part that I find so fascinating.

Yeah, it's so interesting.

Yeah.

I one thing that came to mind, just talking about food and just yeah, like kind of the just the culture of all of it.

My dad always likes to say like everything in moderation, including moderation, which I always find really funny.

47:38

But I in college I had an unhealthy relationship with food.

Part of the reason why I ask is because I think it's also just so common in like the collegiate like running setting.

So maybe yeah, you the fact that you always kind of saw it as fuel, like gave you that gift of just seeing it that way instead of.

47:56

Maybe I wonder if I was at an advantage now that you mention that.

I actually never thought of this till just this moment, but in college I lived at home and I actually wonder if that had a positive influence on on me because I when I even work with people who are in that dynamic, it's amazing when they're just surrounded by people who are always thinking that way.

48:16

But I still came home to, you know, the best my parents could do or whatever, but still home cooked meals that mom prepares food, the influence of my family, the positive reinforcement that comes with that.

So I don't, I would guess that that maybe was influential for me.

48:31

Yeah, that's so interesting.

Did you live at home all four years of college?

I did, you know, one of nine we had to cover our own college.

Yeah, I guess that's.

Yeah, and I did get a partial scholarship, but room and board, in my mind was just so expensive.

And so we lived like 15 minutes from UC.

48:48

Yeah.

So I just.

Yeah, I love.

That you run to school.

Sometimes.

No, that's 15 minutes to drive.

So that'd be probably a little bit.

Farther to run, yeah, but no, I think there's so many influences these days with kids.

I it's hard for them to manage.

I feel for them.

Between social media and so many outlets that they're learning from constantly, it can be kind of a lot.

49:07

Yeah, I could, we could talk about that for like the whole day because that's on my mind a lot these days.

But yeah, I I want to continue your story kind of where we left off at the second Olympic trials.

So you finished a lot better in Houston.

You had your whole family there, which is so amazing.

49:25

So after that what what happened like?

I felt pretty encouraged, like I, I don't know, I was ready to keep pursuing things and again, just if I can do that, where else can I go?

And that spring I ended up toeing the line for a race and Virginia Beach, it was a marathon there and I was pretty excited for it was my, I think my second time running it, I had ran a successful, I think I maybe finished third the last time I ran it.

49:52

So I was doing a strider before the race and I felt this pop in my foot and I was like, play that.

What does a strider mean?

Like a quick, yeah, like just, we'll just say warm up in general.

I was doing part of my warm up where I was doing pickups or there's I guess there's a lot of names for.

50:09

Right.

Yeah.

But I was essentially warming up for the race and I stepped off a curb and the arch of my foot, I felt a sensation of a pop there.

And I was like, I just pop in places sometimes.

So I didn't think a whole lot of it in the moment.

And then I went to the side and I was like, what does this mean?

50:26

It was too close.

The race was literally about to start.

So I started the race and I just went and I knew something fell off.

I couldn't place it.

And by mile 11, I felt like I couldn't even turn my foot.

And I was honestly in first at the moment and I just had to walk off the course.

So I took a photo of my foot and sent to my husband and he's like, no, you couldn't have had a Liz Frank injury.

50:47

Like it's more of a football player kind of an impact type injury.

And when I came back, I did, I had a lit, it's called a Liz Frank sprain that the basically the the ligaments and the arch of my foot get loose.

51:03

So I was non weight bearing for I think like six weeks for that one, see if it comes together.

And then after that I had more legs.

Frank sprains.

So non weight bearing like a scooter situation.

Or yeah, like crutches, Crutches.

Yeah, scooter crutches for six weeks then.

51:19

And then I, I had a couple of, or at least one that was pretty impactful.

Again, that felt significant.

But I always felt like I was having like mini Liz Frank's brains.

And I don't know if that's a thing, but that's how I'm going to describe how it felt.

But eventually just the arch of my foot just felt floppy.

So it just started influencing so much of my day-to-day got to the point where just, you know, when you go for a walk or something like that felt influenced.

51:43

So the Long story short is we ended up I ended up having surgery on my foot where they fused the arch of my foot so fusing meaning it doesn't move anymore.

There's screws there that hold it in place.

Yeah.

Whoa.

And then they lengthen my gas truck to loosen the tightness that was happening through my arch.

52:00

And I had bone shaved from my ankle to create more range of motion.

So there wasn't just all this pressure on my arch all the time.

Wild.

What's a gas truck?

Is that like a my calf muscle?

OK, Yeah.

Sorry.

Yes, Yeah, Yeah.

My calf muscle.

So.

So yeah.

I, I, I, I don't feel like I have the same foot anymore.

52:18

And what what year was that where you went?

Through that I had the surgery finally in 2018, So pretty big gap in there, me trying to figure out this whole foot thing, what was going on.

Yeah.

And I just, I couldn't figure it out.

So I had the surgery in 2018 where you're non weight bearing for three months and I, you know, you just maybe the personality, give me more, give me more.

52:37

I can take it.

I can do it right.

So I got the surgery done in August and we opened a brewery and restaurant that October.

So I was non weight bearing with a peg leg the whole month as we open this literally the dishwasher helping some nights with a peg leg doing dish, wondering if I was going to slip.

52:52

Like it was a messy, it was stressful.

I I probably have a little PTSD because I should have timed it better because it was just a lot because, you know, between doing that and still having young kids.

Yeah.

So and I actually that same year I authored a book.

53:07

So it was just, I took on way too much and basically about a year and a half time span that that I hit a little bit of a overload.

So, so I, I don't know if the overload maybe influenced me doing the proper PT or whatever I needed to do to get back.

I was kind of just, I was full, I had so much going on in my life at the moment that I was trying to fit everything in.

53:27

And so, you know, I, I don't run nearly the mileage.

I'm not doing 8 at 100 miles a week anymore.

And that's where I, I, maybe that's just a little bit of a disconnect in terms of actually racing, but I feel, and I've had so much growth and learning over that six year time, even before that, because those Frank stuff was well before that, right?

53:47

It's like, OK, what does life look like without this, this identity or this craving you have every day?

Because at the end of the day, I mean, a good hard workout sits with you for a couple days.

If it goes right, you know, it's just you have this endorphin setting that you can always create for yourself.

54:04

And I had to find that a different outlets to accomplish what I really wanted on that inner level.

And honestly, I, I, I feel at a really good spot because I feel like the level of growth I've had as a runner kind of associating with there's the competitive side of you that was testing yourself for so many years.

54:21

And now there's their side of me that's like, boy, I use the term quality of life a lot.

But there's finding that balance and just having a really great quality of life without, you know, needing to wake up two hours before everyone else and get in 16 miles or, you know, so there's I so I run less, but I've got so much joy from the run I do still have in my life.

54:41

And I'm so grateful for what I have that it it looks different, but it's still awesome as it was before.

Yeah, that's, I mean, it's crazy to think, yeah, you had so much in this.

I think about the word identity, I think means to me means a lot right now because it's like, yeah, I feel like there's so much of my identity personally that's wrapped up and running.

55:03

Yeah.

And yeah.

So when something happens, heaven forbid, then you can't.

Yeah.

Because you couldn't for for a few months and then slowly, yeah, get your way back.

But there's still that.

I'm sure most people can relate.

There's still that emotional highs and lows because I would go ebb and flow in and out of this foot thing.

55:22

So there's still like always Oh my out, Nope down.

You know, like a little bit of that along the way.

And I think part of it is just realizing as runners in general, we get so connected to the run, and I still crave the run.

There's something I always describe that comes from my chest with it that's hard to get from other workouts.

55:41

Like, Oh yeah, elliptical.

Nope.

Just doesn't hit that mark, you know?

But then you end up realizing that there's a whole world out there that you can explore and more things you can do and just so many things with just a balance with maybe the in between.

55:59

So I don't know.

I'm, I'm grateful for so many years of a lot of miles, but there's a lot of hours and a lot of commitment that comes with running 80 to 100 miles a week.

You know, there's more mornings that I'm there when my kids wake up and, you know, just kind of there's, there's trade trade-offs for each and both are good.

56:19

I just there's balance between where you're at in a stage of life, what you're trying to accomplish, and other things that can bring you joy.

Yeah, yeah, Well said.

So tell us about this brewery.

I'm familiar.

I've been to Field Brewing and I forget who told me, but they're like, Oh yeah.

56:34

By the way, yeah, Jackie's one of the owners of Field Brewing.

I was like, Oh yeah.

Well, that's pretty cool.

So for anybody who's local and may have been or, you know, knows Field, but for people who aren't and have no idea, I want to hear everything.

I want to know the story.

Like, how did you think you wanted to do that?

56:51

You have two kids, you have your husband's got a big job.

You.

Yeah, I don't know.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

I honestly, I don't know.

I think part of it was we lived in Seattle and experienced the food and the beer scene there and it just felt, so I don't know what another word to use, but holistic, like everything felt more farm to table.

57:14

It just felt more organic in terms of even the environment we were eating.

And probably you felt like you're more part of the outdoors and just there.

I don't know, we just embraced so much of it.

And this was around 2010.

So then we moved back and it was like, boy, Indiana felt a lot different.

57:33

And so that's when we started having conversations.

Boy, can we do something that brings a little piece of that back to here.

And at that time, the food scene here was not what it is now.

I mean, it's come a long way in that time for you.

We have some really great options now.

So.

But at the time it wasn't quite the same.

57:51

So I love food.

I love everything about it.

I love how it works in the body.

But I also sometimes get disappointed that, oh, I feel like our food system a lot of times is laced with ingredients that are constantly inflammatory, whether people know it or not.

On the surface it might look great, but then you look a little deeper and it causes inflammation in people when they don't, you know, if we just switch things up a little bit, it doesn't have to be like that.

58:16

So I embraced the food side.

My husband started brewing beer when we got back from Seattle.

So he embraced the beer side.

And even then we're like, well, the, the building is structured in a way that's meant to bring the outdoors and we have windows everywhere.

Kind of embrace that feeling, that organic holistic type setting that we felt like we would hike to and then go have a food and beer or, you know, just kind of that atmosphere.

58:39

But the menu, whether someone knows or not, they might think, oh boy, a doctor and a dietitian own a brewery, you know, that serves fries and wings.

But I'd like to think of it a little different.

Like we don't use any corn syrups, preservatives, everything's from scratch.

So it might feel familiar, but we like to think of ourselves as different.

58:57

I like to hope that people walk away feeling much less inflamed from dining out our beer.

We don't use current corn sugars.

So I just, I feel like the quality of our menu is something we take a lot of pride in and you know, we're really proud of what we do.

So I don't know, I feel like we're different just cuz that.

59:16

Man, I wish you were in the village of West Clay.

I love Danny Boy has great beer, but their food is horrible.

Yeah, they've changed their kitchen like three times to OK.

I haven't been there in a long time.

Yeah.

So you guys should just.

Yeah, their kitchen.

59:31

Yeah.

Anyway, Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's so wild.

Like you're just like, hey, what do you think about this?

Do you remember like who said it first?

Like.

I honestly, I remember it on our car ride home.

Like we drove from Seattle to Indiana.

So I remember us having conversations even then, just kind of dreamy, you know, that kind of thing.

59:49

And then we bought property in downtown Westfield.

Westfield's growing.

It's just kind of, you know, a nice place that's going to look completely different in 10 years from now.

Even so, we knew growth was happening.

In Westfield.

So we bought property regardless.

And then as things evolved, we're like, well, we talked about always doing it.

1:00:08

Why don't we just do it on this this property we already own.

So we first tried to figure out how to accomplish this on, you know, with the structures we already had.

And the city's going to expand the road.

So literally, there's a lot of construction in downtown Westfield.

And knowing the city is going to take 30 feet of our front, we just decided to build our own brewery from scratch.

1:00:29

So we had a friend, Tom Lazara, who helped us, you know, make our vision come to life.

We shared photos and architectural ideas, and he brought a lot to the table.

And I don't know, our idea just kind of took shape.

Yeah, well, it's really cool.

1:00:47

I actually, my friend and this will tie into another question I have for you.

My friend was supposed to have her wedding reception there.

OK.

Awesome.

And then COVID happened.

Yeah.

COVID was definitely his own challenges, but holy yeah.

I love weddings there though.

We've had some beautiful weddings in.

1:01:02

Our bed.

Yeah.

Owning a restaurant during COVID, I feel like most people are like, Oh my gosh.

And then you know your husband's in a hospital setting during COVID.

How I think I, you know, at the end of the day, we're, we're not restaurant tours.

I mean, we are now, but we aren't then.

1:01:17

We were getting our feet wet with it.

And I think we, we opened in October of 2018.

So we really only had like a year and a half under our belt before COVID came and it felt like this whole different beast.

So, and it was challenging.

You know, probably part of it was people didn't want to, you know, we're not totally comfortable getting back to work or whatever it was.

1:01:37

But you know, just staffing was probably one of the bigger challenges of them all.

But I don't know, I feel like, you know, we learned a lot from it.

My husband was, he's an orthopedic trauma surgeon.

So he was, you know, he was involved.

1:01:53

He was never off during COVID, we'll call it that.

Like he he worked the entire time through especially, you know, that first month when it was like, what is this?

Yeah, what are we?

What's happening?

You know, you think of the worst movie on TV and you're like, is this what's happening?

You're not.

You're feeling unsure.

And then you realize, hey, everything's gonna figure itself out here.

1:02:08

But so I don't know.

Yeah.

Somehow things came together.

And now we feel like, you know, we learned a lot and we're in a strong position and we got an amazing team.

We've really got good people who work for us.

So that that means the world to kind of feel like we're we're we've got more roots now.

And we just the Great American Beer Festival's one of the biggest beer competitions in the entire country.

1:02:28

And we just got a bronze medal for.

It's actually a dough pickle sour.

Yeah.

Kind of a fun one.

So fun one.

Yeah.

So we're pretty excited.

It's really cool.

Our Brewers earned it.

And he's worked really hard to to find, to get that.

Yeah.

Will you ever have a second location?

1:02:43

Do people ask you that all the time?

We do get that a decent amount and yeah, we're we're exploring options.

Cool.

Yeah, Yeah.

Well, you.

Know, come to me, Jackie.

Yeah.

And then you just had your inaugural 5 Field Brewing 5K.

Yeah, yeah.

Tell me about how that came to.

1:02:59

Fruition Taylor Marshall reached out to me.

He is he's a coach that expressed that he's exploring becoming a race director, OK.

And he was wondering if field could be one of his first locations to hold his first race and 1.

1:03:17

I feel like if someone comes to my husband and I and says they have goals that they want to accomplish and can you help me do that?

I don't think we're ever going to turn that person down.

So knowing that that was just something that he was, I was like, yeah, let's try to do this together and see what happens.

So he did such a strong job, especially his first year doing it.

1:03:34

I felt like he did a lot of cool ideas between our logo and things like that.

But the course was on the Midland Trail, which is beautiful this time of year.

Oh yeah, perfect.

And it wasn't like this, you know, monumental marathon type turn out.

But it was still a lot of fun where the participants come back to some, you know, scratch made food and kind of a gathering in field, which was really nice.

1:03:58

So we had a small menu prepared for them to kind of refuel and just kick back and enjoy, you know, being together.

I think that's a lot of you know, a lot of what I think of personally perceive as a good quality of life is just how can you surround yourself with instances, whether it's the food you're having, whether it's the people you're with, how can you bring in joy in those elements?

1:04:17

And when we even talk about your relationship with food, I feel like so much of the relationship with food is with the people you share it with and the experiences.

So when you said even the chicken Nuggets, I'm like, well, you know, if, if you're having that chicken nugget with your son and it's like, you know, there's just an element that of, you know, the dynamic between the social experience around food and running and the people you're with and kind of all of it that I felt like the 5K just sitting in the restaurant and looking around, it felt like that vibe.

1:04:45

And that's so much of what I love.

That's where my my excitement comes from, is that kind of connection you get from that, just from the people you're with and things like that.

Yeah, I think about community a time.

Yeah, just, I mean the running community.

Yeah, so great.

Especially Yeah, here.

Yeah.

I was bummed I couldn't make it to your inaugural.

1:05:02

Thank you.

Maybe next?

Maybe next year.

Yeah, it is a perfect time of year.

Wow.

I'm in Midland because I've done some of my longer runs.

I've gone on the Midland Trail and it's so.

Pretty.

It's gorgeous.

The way the trees wrap it is just.

If you hit the week right, it's just a treat.

Yes.

Yeah.

1:05:17

But you're doing monumental, aren't you?

This year?

Yeah.

Are you excited?

I am so excited, I have been checking the weather a lot.

How's it look?

Well, it was looking perfect and then now there's like a 50% chance of rain and.

So I don't believe.

It you're like, it's fine.

It's so far away.

1:05:34

So it's just I can't help but check.

I know it's Indiana.

Like it could literally we could have an 80° day like it's, it's wild.

So, but I'm really looking forward to a lot of what you've said resonates with me in terms of like just seeing what you can do.

I've put a lot of effort into my training.

1:05:49

I'm use a coach, you know, I've been working really hard on my speed for the last couple of years.

I did the full in 22 when it was like super windy and horrible and felt really great.

It was the first time I did a full having a coach and it was my first was my first full post second baby.

1:06:07

Yeah.

So it's like proving to myself I could still do it and then putting in the work to see like what kind of speed I can get.

And so now I just get to go out and like, kind of to your point, like, OK, like, see what happens.

Yeah.

And so I'm really looking forward to it.

Yeah.

Just to see what can happen.

1:06:23

I mean, no pressure.

Always be cares.

Yeah, I think that's the key.

Like, I think, you know, they're all learning experiences and you just grow from every single one of them.

I don't know of a marathon you don't feel like you've had some growth from.

Yeah.

So I don't know, it's, it sounds like a big accomplishment, adding speed and all of it.

1:06:40

I don't know.

You're ready.

I'm excited it'll be marathon #8.

Wow, awesome.

How many marathons have you done?

You know, I feel like people know these stats so fast and I'm not the type to keep track of stuff.

I think maybe 10 something, something around 10.

1:06:55

Yeah.

But I, I people keep track of numbers and things like that.

I've never been that type.

That's funny.

So I know for.

Someone who's like an Olympics trial marathoner.

Like I mean, I know I picture a spreadsheet.

I, I, I probably had them at one time.

1:07:11

I mean, I was definitely, you know, the the programs or the apps or the cards where you can look at what splits you're running in practice and it equates out to what you might run in a race.

Yeah.

So I definitely found myself using those.

But it was more like a confidence booster.

Like, wow, it says I can really do that.

Yeah.

Cool.

1:07:26

But I can't say I was ever following exact numbers, at least probably in the moment.

I could have hashed out a lot more with you.

But I think at some point you just realize, hey, that was an exceptional part of my life, that I had a lot of growth and a lot of good times.

1:07:42

And then you just keep letting the the door open for other experiences and good things to come in.

Yeah.

Well, Speaking of that, I want to make sure we talk about nutrition success.

Did I say it?

Hold on.

Yeah.

Nutrition success.

Yeah.

It'll be 20 years next month.

Yeah, 20 years.

1:07:59

So I want to hear more about your business and then also your book, because people listening, I mean, there's a wide variety of people, maybe some who have worked on their nutrition, dialed that in, they see it as fuel, they're doing a good job.

Maybe they work with a sports dietitian.

1:08:16

Whereas others are like, what?

I didn't even know that.

I really should be thinking about that.

So I would love to have you educate the listeners a little bit more about what you do and.

Yeah, You know, I think I'm a little different, hopefully a healthy positive way.

1:08:33

So I'm much less of the eat this, don't eat that and meal plan type.

A lot of my focus over the years have just narrowed more and more.

So I learned the general stuff from the beginning.

I spent time as a clinical dietitian, which means I worked in the hospital setting with, you know, a broad spectrum from Pediatrics to cardiac to cancer, ICU, just kind of all over.

1:08:55

And eventually narrowed to sports nutrition got for obvious reasons.

And then I've narrowed even more over the years just based on experience I had with the people I work with.

So I specialize in food sensitivities, mineral dysregulation, and calming the immune system.

So I kind of specialized in a lot of different things.

1:09:11

That's honestly super exciting and fun.

So part of that mineral dysregulation is I think around the time of COVID especially, I recognized the impact of stress that was having on people's bodies.

And I realized that you basically you burn through minerals at a higher rate under stress.

1:09:27

And how could I support that process and reduce the stress load on someone's body?

So part of that actually branches out to even runners and let's say iron dysregulation, which is pretty common talked about in the running world.

And I see that iron dysregulation a little different in the running world.

1:09:43

It's common to just say your iron's low.

Take iron where I see I've.

Done that.

Yeah, Yeah.

When when normally it's actually a whole process that's actually off that has nothing to do with iron per SE, taking more iron, there's actually other things you would need to work on to correct that imbalance.

So, so in short, I focus more on a holistic level of the body.

1:10:02

So while we there's sports nutrition concepts for sure that that we focus on.

And that's my book.

I wrote a book called Finish Line fueling.

It's a book geared towards runners to kind of guide the day-to-day kind of how how we make food choices in general without stressing and counting over every last thing we eat.

1:10:19

Supporting a healthy relationship with food, kind of all those things to a cookbook is at the end of it kind of guiding people with examples of things they could put together.

Not because they have to make those exact items, but kind of, hey, this is the big picture goal of how we combine things.

Well, in the I appreciated like the grocery list, like I think that that helps so much just thinking about, oh, here's just what I need.

1:10:39

These are the staples I need to have so I can make some things like this.

Do you want?

Yeah, I think knowing that there's staple ingredients and even I could expand probably on that list still today, but that offer nutrient density that when they're regularly part of your life, they can fill so many nutritional holes.

1:10:57

So I, I really think there's so much you are going to accomplish with food without going to extremes of cutting major food groups or, you know, taking, you know, two buckets worth of supplements, you know, just there's an in between.

So I like to think of myself as trying to create that balance in between and a lot is rained in just through food I feel like.

1:11:17

So that's a lot of what I lead, but I do also specialize in food sensitivity.

So we're still honoring that.

There's times people get pretty dysregulated where they feel pretty uncomfortable and inflamed, so we can guide them with whether it's food sensitivities or calming the immune system to support that regroup and help them get back to the quality of life that they are hoping they can have.

1:11:36

How do you figure that out?

Is it blood work type level stuff?

Or is it like, hey, keep a journal of what you're eating and describe your symptoms?

Like how do you kind of pinpoint?

So one starting point I have with every client that I follow throughout our whole journey together is called a symptom survey.

And they complete the symptom survey where it's a subjective way to say, Hey, this is everything going on in my body right now.

1:11:55

And normally the higher the score, the more uncomfortable someone is, the, the, the more they feel like they're missing from their quality of life.

So my goal always is to see how low I can get that symptom survey.

And if someone even comes to me, let's say, you know, a calm one, when you might hear his weight goals, which I focus so little on weight because I feel like when, when we have the symptom survey reined in, so many other goals just naturally fall into place.

1:12:19

So if you're feeling exhausted and beat up and you know, well, you're less likely to be choosing things that you know might fuel you a little better or you're more likely to overeat because you're imbalanced, things like that.

So I feel like a lot of times, let's say even someone is overeating, a lot of times it's like an internal cue that they feel like, boy, I feel full, but there's just something in my brain that feels like it's missing that they're trying to fill.

1:12:41

And if I can help them fill that void, boy, there's just so many other things that come together.

So I don't, I don't weigh people.

I don't know.

The last time I've ever gotten someone on a scale, I don't ask people their weight very often at all.

I focus more on reining in their symptoms, their quality of life, and then I let the weight goals, whatever those just come together anyway.

1:13:00

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, yeah.

Do you, so do you tend to work mostly one-on-one?

Do you do any like I think I saw on your website team coaching?

Do you work with like certain running clubs or how does?

I'm kind of, I would consider myself customizable.

So for about 6 years I was the dietitian for the sports dietitian for Community Health Network.

1:13:20

I covered the Indy 11, for example.

So then COVID hit and I felt overwhelmed with my restaurant and I had to rain.

I had to, you know, it was too much something I had to give at that time.

So that's when I reined in.

But I work with all kinds of settings.

I often do team education where I do, you know, whether it's high school team and then definitely individual.

1:13:39

I do think I have package systems, not because, you know, let's just build out with sessions, but it's more like the package sessions are geared towards regular following.

So you get checked in on every week.

And I think a lot of times it's not like, you know, weighing on the scale type check in, we're like, Hey, this is what we applied last week.

1:13:58

How's it going?

This is where you push, this is where you, you hold back.

So I, I, I feel like people maybe don't appreciate that when you work with a health professional, especially someone in the arena of what I do, it's not a one and done like that.

You can't have one session and say ah.

Here's that.

1:14:14

Here's my book.

Good luck.

Yeah.

I feel like, honestly, like a lot of it is learning your body.

And I've worked with a lot of people over time that my goal is to teach people what their body's communicating, that they have tools that 10 years from now when they're like, oh, this is happening, I remember this is how I respond.

That's really my goal, to teach someone more in that aspect of what their body's communicating and how you can respond versus here's a plan, Just go do this exactly how it's written.

1:14:39

And then, you know, 10 years from now, they're like, oh, I did that that plan a while ago, but so many things change over 10 years.

You're not the same person you were ten years ago.

So I don't know, I just really try to embrace that.

But also there's the sports nutrition aspect where 100% like if if you're under fueling day-to-day, if you're not feeling appropriately during, you know, competition game changer.

1:14:59

Those are easy ones, right?

Those are just right off the bat, just easy ones.

But I feel like people don't maybe maybe there's a foundation to appreciate that comes with, you know, you can add layers.

We get a good foundation, OK, Then we can work on fueling during the run.

Then we can work, you know, there's more tricks to keep going all the time.

1:15:17

Yeah.

So if people want to reach out to you, what's the best way to do that?

My website isnutritionsuccess.org, that's probably the easiest so and there's a link.

Contact me or make an appointment pay link right on there.

But yeah, and my book is called Finish Line Fueling, which goes over, you know, foundational, easy stuff that you can apply day-to-day for the runner and makes it real practical from race nutrition to day-to-day feeling.

1:15:42

Yeah, I think my biggest struggle, Jackie, is the kids, man.

Yeah, the kids, which is kids won't eat anything.

It's so.

Hard you know that it's just exposure.

I think don't stress over it.

You just keep putting it in front of them and over time, eventually they just.

Appreciate about the husband.

1:15:59

That's actually probably, if I'm really being honest, the bigger struggle is that he will eat.

Yeah, yeah.

But, yeah, you know, there's a time when everyone's ready for it.

And I feel like sometimes people aren't ready for it in the moment.

And if he's not ready to receive it yet, right, Yeah.

1:16:15

Then I don't know.

But if you just keep being you and you do your own thing and right, you know, that's, I think exposure all around.

He might eventually say, I'm not feeling great.

Will you just help me what you're doing?

Yeah, yes.

I could do that.

Yeah, Goodness.

Yeah.

But at the end of the day, I feel like most people when it comes to maybe we'll say eating have us being quote, UN quote, a little bit off or, you know, I honestly think there should be no judgment.

1:16:38

But IA lot comes back to stress and figuring out when you rein in the mineral imbalance that's occurrence with stress, so many other things just kind of feel better.

So like if, for example, someone who craves a lot of French fries or potato chips, yeah, it's it's because there's a sodium potassium imbalance going on.

1:16:57

And when you guide them to addressing that, it's just it's liberating, honestly, because it's like, oh, you might have felt guilt over the chips or French fries, even though we're saying don't feel guilt over those anyway.

But yeah, at the end of the day, when you can rein in stress, and I know runners tend to use running as their stress relief a lot.

1:17:15

But if anything, I can say what I've learned in in the journey with my foot even is we can't totally depend on the run.

We have to have other outlets.

And a lot of runners honestly depend on running, whether they have past traumas, unresolved issues they're trying to work through in, in the shape of running.

1:17:34

And then when that's taken away, they don't know what to do with themselves.

So I I probably in an annoying kind of way, I preach a lot about stress because it's the the obvious thing in the room that needs to be addressed for so many other things to come together.

1:17:49

Yeah.

Wow, that's great.

Yeah, sorry, it was my fault.

No, I'm like, that's like really taking that to heart.

So yeah, thank.

You.

Yeah, thanks for having me, I.

Appreciate.

So I'm so glad that I finally got to know you a little bit better than just like, some chitchat next to you at a booth.

1:18:05

But.

That was so fun.

Yeah.

I would still love to do it again sometime.

Yeah, I was great.

You know, getting to know you better, too.

I appreciate it.

Of course.

Well, I have two end of the podcast.

OK, so the first end of the podcast question is what is your favorite running or life mantra and or song?

1:18:24

I tell you, you told me this was coming and I felt like it was kind of hard because I probably say a lot of little things and maybe I, I shared them all because we're all just trying to figure it out, you know, all the time.

Like no one's got all the the answers.

We've got guides to follow, but no one's got all the answers.

1:18:39

So I think a lot of what I say is you just got to keep learning you because things change.

And the more you you embrace and just learn you, I feel like we comes back to all those other things I mentioned.

But yeah, it's kind of boring.

But I feel like, you know, there's stages of life where you change and you got to keep learning you.

1:18:58

Yeah.

And then when you when you ran a lot of mileage, did you ever listen to music or are you the no music person?

I'm a no music person.

Yeah.

I think part of it was my husband would gift them to me at different times.

I'm like, I remember when I was young and I the last thing I wanted was music when I was pushing one of my kids in the stroller.

1:19:16

For some reason that made me uncomfortable.

I could.

Well, because you can't hear if they're yeah or what they need or.

Or a car.

Yeah.

Yeah, like just anything.

So I, I had a lot of years of pushing strollers.

Yeah.

So I think that's part of it.

But I do love the rhythm of just like hearing my own breathing rhythm and hearing leaves shuffle behind me and just kind of taking a nature that I feel like there's a disconnect for me with.

1:19:40

I have music, yeah.

So I'll listen to music if I'm on the treadmill, but definitely not when I'm running.

Yeah, I've started not listening to music.

Do you like it?

I love it.

It's weird because at the beginning of doing this podcast, I would ask everybody that question and people who would tell me, oh, I don't, I don't use music.

1:19:57

I'd be like, what, how like, how could I possibly not?

But in this training cycle, like I did do my 20 Miller with somebody else, a couple of my longer runs with somebody else.

But today I went out on A7 mile workout and I forgot my headphones and I was like well that's OK because I haven't been running with headphones and.

1:20:15

Yeah, the leaves, yeah, like the birds, just all in, like my breathing.

Yeah, I feel like it's.

Grounding.

It's starting to make more sense to me why people don't.

I also find that I'm always just in my own head anyway, thinking about who knows what, so that like even if there was music playing, a lot of times it just drowned.

1:20:35

Like my own thoughts drowned it out.

Yeah, I agree.

I I feel like it's a time for I might check off my To Do List in my brain.

And hear yeah.

So daydreaming about opening a brewery or whatever is not yeah.

But mostly grounding.

I feel like there's an element of feeling like, grounded to the environment, what's going on around me, like that kind of thing that I don't know.

1:20:56

I've never run with music when it comes to outdoors.

Yeah, yeah.

So I encourage people listening who think I think we're nuts for not listening to music.

Like, if I can do it, anybody can do it.

Just give it a shot.

Like, it's just interesting how I didn't really.

Yeah, I've started to not miss it.

1:21:11

Like there are times where I would pull, I would turn around and go back to my house if I forgot my headphones.

Well, maybe I need to try it, maybe I got it wrong.

No, I.

Don't know.

Maybe I need music.

I don't know well.

And then I do.

When I do have my headphones now, I'm listening to audiobooks or podcasts more than I'm listening to music.

I wonder if that comes with age because I find myself there too with just in general feel the podcast, I don't know.

1:21:31

Or maybe we have more opportunity for neat podcast like this.

That's true.

Too.

Yeah, yeah.

Or good audio book.

Like, I love a good audio book.

Yeah.

And I find too, that running or with music sometimes, like you get a really good song and all of a sudden you're like flying when you're not supposed to be.

Yeah.

1:21:46

Or you know.

Yeah, that I will say that's part for me because I'm one of those that I really have to focus on that zone to run the discipline to make sure you're going slow enough, especially on the days where you just feel good and you want to go, but you know there's.

A hard workout tomorrow?

Yes, exactly.

Music would definitely throw me.

1:22:02

Yeah, mess you up there.

Yeah, for sure.

So, OK.

Second question is next finish line or milestone.

So obviously we mentioned nutrition success, your business, 20 years in business next month.

Will you celebrate that in some way?

Because you should.

I don't know.

You know what?

1:22:17

I didn't even think about it.

Probably not.

You just do the day-to-day and keep going.

Odd.

Yeah. 20 years though.

Yeah, it is.

You're right.

It's pretty.

Cool.

Yeah, it should be.

I am proud of it.

Yeah, you should be.

Yeah, that's incredible.

So I don't know, We'll see.

I like the idea.

Thanks for the yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then in terms of finish lines, I also know I mentioned stalking you on athletes earlier.

1:22:36

It looks like you run every Thanksgiving.

Is that true?

Is.

That normally it was a thing, was most of my life. 3 foot.

Yeah, actually it was pre probably.

I mean even with my kids we did it forever.

But I don't know, my kids lives have taken a different shape.

Like my son played in the state game and he couldn't that morning and this year I'm not sure what the football.

1:22:55

Schedule will bring now you're too short by the football.

Yeah, so the football schedule has interfered with it, but I do expect to always have that part of it.

Yeah.

So that's always a fun one.

I think in terms of milestones, I I do feel like there's potential.

I'm always working my foot towards the D rim to rim.

1:23:12

So that that's one thing I've always wanted.

And trails are my like kryptonite in terms of my foot, like it's uneven.

My arch is just troublesome.

And I know someone else who got a Liz Frank the same.

Hers was different, but she did some hiking and the Grand Canyon last year and her list Frank, the fusion broke.

1:23:32

So there's part of me that's like, yeah, I mean, my husband told me though, he's like, no, she her surgery was recent.

Yours is like it's not going anywhere.

So I I think my my bucket list, if you want to call it, is, I don't know.

I have this desire.

I think rim to rim would be amazing.

So for people who don't know what that is, you're literally running from 1 rim of the Grand Canyon to the down into the Canyon and to the other side.

1:23:56

Yeah, and I've just heard it's just gorgeous and it's like a day.

It's not like.

It's like just a whole day.

You know, but you can I, you know, there's some switchbacks, tight spots, you can walk a little, whatever.

You're just kind of there to just take it in.

So I, I don't know if I would race the the rim to rim.

1:24:12

I think that's in May maybe, but but I would I'm interested.

I mean, if I don't ever do it, that's OK, but that's kind of one of those that I'm like, that's like a marathon for me now.

To be able to do that would be with my foot and everything.

That would be a big deal for me.

How many miles is that?

1:24:28

I think it's like 22 if you go one way.

OK.

Yeah, it's not crazy.

So in terms.

Of mileage, it's not nuts, but I feel like just like going up the other rim is like.

I think getting in and out like it's hard to go down and and up but the pads are are pretty nice otherwise from what I understand.

1:24:43

So I'm trying to learn more but I don't know enough.

But I've been trying to fight the urge for about 3 years now.

OK, Last I thought that I was gonna get my son who plays football.

We were gonna do a window where I was like, just go do it with me, which maybe he shouldn't do cuz he's working on his own goals.

1:24:59

But yeah, I don't know.

I'm interested in rim to rim.

I think it would be a really life enhancing thing to do.

Yeah, yeah.

That would be really cool.

I'm trying to think of, there was a woman on this podcast, she's a running coach out in California, Nicole Dabronski.

I'm pretty sure her and her husband did either rim to rim or rim to rim to rim.

1:25:15

Yeah.

For their, like, one of their wedding anniversaries.

And I was like, what?

Yeah, it's crazy.

Would you?

My husband and I for our 10 year wedding anniversary summited Mount Rainier.

OK.

It's just kind of one of those things it is kind of fun to have like something like that you.

Do together.

Yeah, that's really cool.

And that was was when you lived in Seattle.

1:25:31

Then it was actually we lived there the year and then the next year we went.

Back went back.

That's really cool yeah.

Oh my gosh, so.

Yeah, but I don't know, it's, it's fun when you do those things together.

And you know, my husband's not quite the the runner, he's more of a cyclist, which I'm trying to do more since he does it.

1:25:46

But yeah, I think it's neat they did that together.

It's kind of fun.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, I'll be cheering for you.

Thanks.

Thank you again.

Good.

Luck at monument?

Yeah, have fun.

All right.

Well, thank you to everybody who's listened as well.

And happy running.

Yeah, which is good considering the theme of finding joy in running.

1:26:07

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Thanks so much.

See you next week.