Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 82

Here's a link to listen to this week's episode.

Guest: Nathan Partain

Show Notes: 

Nathan Partain started running marathons when he was 64 years old. 🤯 During this episode, sponsored by ⁠Athlete Bouquets⁠, we talk about:

• The crowds at the World Majors he’s run - New York City (‘24), Boston (‘22, ‘24) and London (‘23)

• Running the 2024 New York City Marathon with ⁠Imerman Angels⁠ 

• How he started running marathons after he retired in 2020

• Having to defer and drop out of races because of injury   

• How we met randomly on a golf course and I asked if I could interview him 

• Life before marathons - Texas > Chicago > Indy

• His three kids and the fact that they all run too 

• His favorite part of the London Marathon and the first bridge of NYC

• ⁠Nick Hauger⁠, his running coach who runs for HOKA Northern Arizona Elite and why he got a coach

• How he’s saving the Chicago Marathon for his last World Major Marathon 

• His race experiences at Houston, Mesa, and Woodlands 

• Why he now wears bright colored clothes when he races 

• The unexpected downside of having his name on his shirt in NYC

• Other places in the world he’s gotten to run 

• Climbing Kilimanjaro with his daughter TWICE  

• The fact that he was a DJ at a nightclub in college 

⁠This is a SandyBoy Productions podcast.

Episode Transcript:

This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast that celebrates the everyday runner.

I'm your host, Ali Brett Knocker.

Whether you're a season marathoner, half marathoner, ultra marathoner, prefer shorter distances or just getting started, if you run, you are a runner.

0:22
And every runner has a story.

Join me each week as I share these stories and we cross finish lines and celebrate milestones together.

This podcast is brought to you by Athlete Bouquets.

Celebrate the finish lines and milestones of the people you love by visiting athletebouquets.com.

0:40
Use code podcast for 10% off your order.

Hey, welcome to episode 82.

This is Ally Brett Knocker and I completed the CNO Indianapolis Monumental Marathon on November 9th with a 12 minute and 28 second PR.

1:00
But who is counting?

Oh my gosh, it was amazing.

I am in the process or have already completed my race recap.

We'll see.

Depends on when you listen to this and when I get my act together, but thinking about this last weekend just leaves me almost, almost speechless.

1:18
Not quite, but I just had one hell of a weekend.

I'm sad that it's over.

I know that a lot of you listening perhaps will understand that.

Like post marathon depression almost where it's like you have this build up for months and months, all this hard work, you get there, you do the thing and then it's over.

1:35
So it's like, OK, now what?

And now it's basically 2025 S.

My weekend really started on Thursday when I volunteered to help set up the Expo.

I helped volunteer on Friday during the Expo and then I was fortunate enough to moderate the Elite Athlete panel with Sarah Hall, Erica Kemp, Stephanie Sherman and dot McMahon. dot was a last minute ad because somehow there was a miscommunication and poor Sarah Hall was hiding in a room and we didn't know that.

2:06
So she was there all along and we asked dot if she would be so kind as to join us.

And it was super awkward because I didn't know who dot was.

I now do.

She's such a bad ass and was actually the winner in 2019 of the monumental marathon.

But she runs with Hanson's Brooks, which is the same team as as Stephanie Sherman.

2:26
So she was kind enough to jump on the panel with us.

And if you go to beyond Monumental's Facebook page, there is a recording of of this live feed.

And I don't know if it's just me having trouble watching it, but I'm trying to get my hands on a better version of it.

2:42
So that happened.

It was a blur.

I blacked out.

People say I did fine.

I feel like I was awkward and could definitely do better.

But it was my first time ever doing something like that.

And I'm usually here like in my office, closed doors, or I'm like one-on-one with somebody interviewing someone who is an everyday runner just like you and me, not a pro.

3:04
And so it was really fun.

I'm so glad I got to do it.

Perhaps I'll get to do it again, I've no idea.

It really is outside of my comfort zone.

And then after afterwards, Cole Hawker, the gold medalist from Indianapolis, he came home for this race weekend to to be around for us and he did a fireside chat with Matt Ebersol from Personal Best Training PBT.

3:29
And that was amazing.

And I was lucky enough to act as part of Cole's security detail after the fact and helped him get from point A to point B, give him a break before he signed or not signed autographs 'cause they did not allow for that, where he took pictures of people for an hour at least.

3:49
So I got to meet Cole Hawker.

My friend Ashley Hansen, who ran the marathon with me, was with me and we got pictures, we chatted, I made him a mug and he opened it in front of me, which was so sweet but equally embarrassing.

And he was just the loveliest human being.

4:06
I am now like a giant Cole Hawker fan.

I already was a fan, but more, more a bandwagon.

I'm not a huge follower of track.

I think that the Netflix series Sprint and the Olympics have certainly, you know, and certainly what I do has gotten me more invested and interested in the sport.

4:26
But I'm, I'm getting there.

But anyway, like huge Cole Hawker fan, I hope he puts out more T-shirts I can buy 'cause I'm definitely gonna get one.

Although maybe I'll just get one with the picture of us on it instead.

But the gold medal is super heavy.

Really cool to be able to to touch that and hold that as wild.

4:44
So anyway, thank you so much Cole for coming to town.

I also told him I'm trying to get his dad to come on this podcast because I want to hear what it's like to have a kid that's an Olympic champion, because a lot of us, you know, with young kids, you know, you, you're like, my kids not going to be an Olympian.

5:00
So but some people's kids are.

So I'd love to hear what that's like.

It's kind of wild.

So if anybody listening knows Mr. Kyle Hawker, please let me know.

I have have his phone number and I texted him, but yet to hear back.

So maybe if I just keep talking about it, it'll it'll happen.

5:17
So anyway, you'll have to read my race recap.

Usually with those I'll actually I'll read it as well.

So you can just listen to it kind of like a podcast if you don't like to read.

So that'll get into the nitty gritty of my race 'cause there's a lot to say there and I don't necessarily want to say it all here 'cause I don't know if you care at all.

5:34
So that was amazing, amazing weekend.

And then I had the privilege of interviewing this week's guest, Nathan Partain.

He has finished three out of the now 7 world majors.

But I met Nathan just casually while we were golfing one day at a place close to my house that my husband and I golfed.

5:56
It was a slow day and so he joined up with our twosome and we got to talking and turns out he's a runner.

And then the rest is history.

I was new to the podcasting thing and I asked him for his e-mail address.

And then I waited a while, 'cause he was getting ready to do more majors.

6:12
And then I reached back out to him and now we got to know each other.

And Nathan is incredible.

Not only so he first of all, so he started started Underline underline running marathons after the age of 60.

So he is currently 68.

He started running marathons after he retired in 2020, which means 64 was how old he was when he ran his first marathon.

6:34
Just let that sink in for anybody listening who's not into the marathon distance but might be curious about it or, you know, just doesn't think that they can continue doing this.

I mean, Nathan is an example of how you, you know, listen to your body, work your way through injuries, take care of yourself and just keep at it.

6:52
So he just started, but he is certainly nowhere near near finished.

So we talk a lot about his running, a little bit about his life before running marathons.

And then we also talk about how he climbed Kilimanjaro with his daughter twice.

7:08
And I just know he's got so many more stories.

But you're really going to love this episode with Nathan Partain we're doing.

It OK.

Good morning, Nathan.

Morning, Allie.

How are you?

Good.

How are you I'm.

Surviving.

Recovering.

What is it?

OK, so now it's two week, one week little.

7:25
Over a week.

Little over a week.

Yeah, 9 days if you want to be counting.

Who's counting 9 days since the New York City Marathon for you, yeah.

And what Day 2 for you?

Yeah. 3. 2-3 since the Monumental.

Yes, since the monumental.

7:42
So we're just we're getting by.

So neither one of us are going for a run anytime.

No.

And it's so weird.

We actually had to shower this morning.

I had to remind myself, OK, you're not working out every day, so you still need to shower.

Yeah.

So how is New York?

7:59
Unbelievable.

So I run three or four of the majors now and the crowd was energetic and it was just as you know, fun as can because you know, you're running along and you never get away from people, whether you're runners you're running with or the crowds along the side.

8:20
So it's just really a a great experience recommended for anybody that really wants to do it.

Very comparable to what we had in London when I ran London.

So same very close crowds into the to the race, whereas Boston, they're a little bit further away.

8:37
So you really don't get that crowd effect till you get closer into the city.

And in Boston, although some of the smaller the towns you run through, you do get that.

But New York, it was like wall to wall people.

Wall to wall, people.

Everywhere you went, except a couple of times, once in Bronx, and they sort of tell you that there's going to be a quieter spot there.

8:57
And then going across the bridge in Manhattan, yeah, there's not a lot.

Of people, nobody's.

There, nobody's there, although it is still quite a loud because people are, you're going up this bridge.

And so everybody's sort of screaming about, you know, OK, we got another bridge to go over here.

9:13
And then when you Crest over the bridge and you start heading down towards the street, everybody's letting out a scream of yes.

We finally got it.

Yeah, we're finally done with it.

With this one anyway with.

The bridge, yeah.

How did you end up getting into New York to run?

9:30
Did you do the lottery?

No, there's a, a charity in Chicago, Emerman Angels, which my younger son ran with them back in 2018-2019 for Chicago.

And I went to the after party, the marathon with them.

9:49
And So what a great job they were doing with the runners and what they're the charity was.

And so I decided, you know, for New York, Chicago, and they do have Berlin, I'll run for them and raise some money for them and use them as my source to sort of get into those races there.

10:08
So I read New York for Emerald Angels and it was great experience both with the city of New York and with the charity that I worked with.

And what does Emmerman Angels do?

So they are a group that puts cancer survivors or people that have experienced cancer and if you're have a caregiver or you have cancer and they try to match people up that have had similar type experience.

10:38
So if you're going through a treatment and they try to match you up with somebody that has gone through the treatment where they can sort of help you manage the whole process and understand what you're getting into.

So I just thought it was just really a neat services and the guy that started John Emmerman head cancer and that's how they started the whole process from there.

11:00
And from there, it's really bloomed into a great organization that does it around the world.

Around the world.

Yeah.

So they'll match up people with you one way or the other and trying to do it.

So I'm very honored that they allow me to run with them.

Yeah, that's really cool.

And they have 'cause.

They have training programs and stuff.

11:16
They really do a good job of sort of making sure that their team is really well trained, understand what they're getting into and you can be experienced or inexperienced.

They want you to have a great time while you're doing it.

Yeah, and how much money did you have to raise?

For this one, it was 3500.

11:35
Dollars.

OK, Yeah.

I think I was trying to remember.

I did New York in 2018 for Alex's lemonade Stand, so for kids with cancer and I think it was $3500, yeah.

And it it varies by race.

Yeah, which one, like Boston, tends to be a higher dollar amount for their charities?

11:51
Yeah, my, my kids have did Boston with me in 2022.

So they did it through a charity and so it was a little bit higher than what I had in in New York.

And then I did London, London through another charity once in Chicago also, and it was 55000 for that.

12:09
One.

Yeah, yeah.

That's it's no, no small feat.

No, but it's it's good to do because it's a way of getting people involved with what you're doing and sort of gets them familiar with charity and hopefully it there's some carry over that goes if you introduce enough people to what you're doing.

12:26
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Well, and it gives you additional motivation because I'm thinking, well, gosh, like if kids, kids have cancer, I can run over this bridge.

You know, it's kind of like that.

Yeah, yeah.

And I also put you on the onus.

You better train.

You better get serious.

The last thing you want to do is raise money with people, and then all of a sudden they're looking at you.

12:45
So why didn't you run?

Yeah, that would be awful.

How is it?

Well, that happened to me.

Last year, you know.

Because I was going to run New York and with Immerman Angels and then I developed planner fasciitis.

And so I tried kept trying to get through it and everything.

13:02
And then finally I just called them and said it's not going to work this year.

And they said the good thing.

He says, well, we'll put you on the team for next year and we have a couple of people that want to run in your place so.

Well, you made somebody's day.

Yeah, somebody got in and so I got out early enough to sort of let hopefully somebody had enough training.

13:22
To get in, yeah.

They had a good experience also.

Yeah, that works out.

So how long have you been running marathons?

So I got serious about it when I retired, so in 2020.

So up until that point I was running with, I lived in Chicago, so it was a local running club I was running with and in the late, you know, teens 20/15/16 I.

13:49
Started was the running club.

Libertyville Running Club.

So I was in the town north of of Chicago is local community running but a big club and I didn't know how serious they were about marathons until I started running with them.

14:05
Then one of the leaders of the pack, his goal was to run a marathon in all 50 states.

Yep, there's, yeah, there's those people.

And his goal also was to have it all 50 under 3 hours.

Under 3 hours, not even under 4.

14:21
I know somebody who's done them under 4.

No, under 3, there's not many of those out there.

And he did it.

He did.

It he did it.

Yeah, so, so he was an inspiration to sort of say, you know, you can do this if you work at it.

And so I had no visions ever running under 3 hours that that went out decades ago.

14:43
But this idea was OK, so I can do it.

So I trained for a couple of years, you know, and when you're doing this, obviously a runner, you get injured.

So I had all my injuries and also had injuries that probably were lingering for 10/20/30 years that you never took care of that come back to surface when you start to get serious about it.

15:06
So it took a while to sort of build the base back up to sort of get where I could get through it.

And I actually had one marathon that I aborted after the 20 mile run because I never recovered from the 20 mile run at the end of the training program.

What a bummer.

15:21
Oh yeah, so but it's OK.

It was a good lesson.

But I can tell you I'm still you know, I always worry about that last 20 to 22 mile run.

Yeah, hope it's you don't want to do it too hard, but you know, you got to do it.

But you also want to say I want to have it where I can recover and be ready to go to the starting line, right?

15:42
In a good health, yes.

So, well, during the time that you're tapering, do you ever have the phantom injury stuff?

Like when I'm tapering, I swear it's like, Oh, my knee starts hurting and I'm like Oh no.

Yeah, and it's not real.

Usually when you're laying in bed at night, you know, something starts aching one way or the other.

15:57
And you say, oh, did I do?

Something today or?

Did I walk the wrong way or step off the stairs the wrong way?

You always, I mean, you always are paranoid.

And unfortunately going into Boston this year, I ran earlier this year, the last long run of my Boston training, I was running in Arizona and I in Arizona you, you sort of can run down these canals and they crossover, you know, they use it also for drainage.

16:27
And I came where a stream was running across the the canal and so I went to hurdle it, you know.

Oh God.

I went to hurdle the street.

Visualizing this.

Yeah, it was not a pretty ending because I rolled my ankle.

So I twisted my ankle three weeks before Boston.

16:44
And so I took a real easy taper trying to hold it together and then started Boston with a bad leg.

Oh my gosh.

You still did it.

Yeah, I got to.

I got to Nile Nine Mile 10 and things were swelling up.

17:02
Oh no.

And I go into the medical tent at mile 9 and the doctor or nurse or whoever was the medical person, he looks down at that leg.

He said, did you do that here?

I said, no.

He said.

He says, well, he said you have two choices.

17:20
He said, you can call it a day here and we'll cart you back to the starting line, or you're about 16 miles from downtown.

You can walk and run and you may make it.

And he says, but you may have trouble getting to the airplane tomorrow.

17:38
So he says pick and choose which one you want to.

And I'd run Boston in 2022.

So I'd finished it.

So I knew it wasn't going to get easier from where I was.

So I said, I know I want to run New York in the fall.

I don't want to do anything to sort of push me back on doing that.

17:53
So I said I'll just call it a day.

So I walked off the coat course there.

So anyway, so you know, injuries come and, you know, but as always, tell people it proves one thing for sure, that you can't run a marathon on one leg.

So, yeah.

18:10
So you want to be healthy when you get to the starting?

Line, Yes.

Yeah.

Man, you'd be so mad about that little Creek jump.

Yeah, yeah.

And after you do it, you sort of sit there and say, why did I do that?

I could have got walked through it and got my shoe wet or whatever, right?

18:28
But I hit mud on the other side and it didn't look like mud until I hit it.

And then it was like great.

He hit a slick spot and then it was all over.

With did you scrape yourself up too?

I went down, yeah, but that I wasn't worried, but I could, I could tell, you know, something was not right with the ankle.

18:48
So what what?

What would you do if you twist your ankle at 18 miles on a 20 mile run?

You got to finish the run, right?

So.

Yeah, I.

Mean it was not a good it was not a good ending so.

And how?

How did your wife Chris feel about this?

19:07
And I want to talk just more about that in general, but.

Yeah, she she.

Get back and she's like, what are you doing?

Yeah, no, What what are you doing?

You know, on this one?

She knew it was it was a problem.

Yeah.

And and one of the things that I, she's go to all the races with me.

19:24
As I always say, you got to have somebody to carry the body back when you, but it doesn't work out too well.

But so she was there.

My youngest son and his wife went with it.

And so they knew I was having trouble and soon as they saw they were at mile 10.

19:41
And when I didn't show up at mile 10 when they thought I should, they text them already.

They came back and found me in the medical tent and then we walked out.

So anyway, it was not a good ending.

But you know, Boston is a great town.

Great.

It's a beautiful race and I'll go back to it.

20:00
Yeah, I really, really hope to get there someday.

They keep moving that damn goal post.

I know.

So, you know, I'm 38, so I'm close to that next age bracket, which would help a lot.

So that's the way I'm kind of thinking about it is OK, I've got a couple more years to continue to chip away, get faster, get stronger.

20:22
Did they lower the and I don't, you know, I gave up looking at those brackets years ago.

Yeah, but did they lower it?

Yeah, they lower it by 5 minutes again.

So it's now 3:30 for, well, for my age group now.

And so I would get 5 more minutes when I turn 40 and I'm like, OK, yeah.

20:40
I mean, that seems a lot more doable 10 minutes in a couple years versus 15.

I mean, and then maybe more because you don't know about the buffer.

Part of me is just like, you know what, if I get a BQ, I'll just go for charity.

I'll just, you know, screw the buffer.

I'm a, I'm a Boston qualifier.

I'll do it for a good cause kind of a thing.

20:58
My dad has run before several times.

And so he is.

He was born in 56, which makes him. 68.

Are you guys, are you, how old are you?

68 so yeah, so 76.

So he's like, he wants to itching to go back maybe one more time.

21:15
He keeps saying one more marathon.

I'm like, you're not.

You're not going to stop running marathons until you're not above ground anymore, You can't you.

Can't.

Do it anymore, Yeah, until you literally are not able to do it anymore.

So.

So yeah.

So I hope to do that someday.

Well, my age bracket, they didn't move it down 55 minutes.

21:31
So it's I'm four O 5 S 350 in New York gets me back in three. 50 in New York.

Wow, gets me back into qualifying for Boston again.

Twenty 26th.

It's already done for 2025.

Yeah.

So golly.

21:47
So, yeah.

So that's like 40 minutes faster than I ran New York in 2018.

That's incredible, Nathan.

That's holy cow.

It's just being an old guy that has a lot of time on his hands, I like to say.

Yeah, so we didn't say this at the beginning yet, but you and I met on a golf course, right?

22:06
And it was like right after I started this podcast.

And so I was like, really eager to just tell, tell people's stories.

And I remember think I was like, should I ask him?

Should I ask him?

And I remember at the end, I'm like, OK, this is going to sound weird, but can I have your e-mail address so that we can, you know, so I can interview sometime?

22:23
So do you golf a lot in retirement as well?

Not as much because this, especially this last year, because when I rolled my ankle, one of the doctors work with he's and he was a, he was a performance specialist for Titleist too.

22:39
So he said, he said you're running, you're going straight ahead.

He said with the golf, you're going to put a twist on your ankle.

And since it was my left ankle, he said you may want to reframe a little bit from how much golf you play.

So I sort of, I played when I wasn't working, you know, getting ready for New York.

23:00
But once I got into seriously into New York, I sort of tapered back on how much golf I was going to play.

But from that standpoint, the golf game has gone S, literally.

But now that I'm sort of through New York, I can start playing a little bit more golf and we'll see what happens then.

23:19
Yeah, hopefully all of my friends still Remember Me, that I played golf.

With.

That are over there.

OK, I'm back.

I'm back, yeah.

But yeah, golf is fun.

It's one of those sports and it's as I, I used to, I used to take it real serious.

But then as you find out, one of the mantras that I've come up with is if you don't see a golfer playing on TV, they're not really good.

23:42
So therefore don't take yourself real serious about playing golf.

So have fun, enjoy being outside.

And when I told people I was doing this podcast and they said, once again, how did you meet?

I said on the golf course and one of my kids said, you didn't hit him to him, did you, Dad?

I said, no, no, I didn't hit him.

23:59
It was one of those slow days where you and your husband were playing ahead of me.

I was a single.

You guys were a couple and then there was a foursome in front of.

Us right so we're not going anywhere we're.

Not going anywhere?

We can either.

Watch each other from afar.

We can also meet up and sort of play from there.

24:16
And so we worked our way in.

Yeah, it was great.

And I can't remember how we found out how I found out that you ran.

Do you remember?

I don't remember.

I mean, I think we were just, you know, we're standing around tea time.

Right with.

Tea box a lot.

So you just sort of say, well what else do you do besides doing this?

24:32
They said, oh, I run, run this, run that and.

Then my husband's like, oh boy, now they're gonna talk about running the rest.

Of the running conversation.

Starts.

So yeah, I was just.

I'm hoping that I mean, that must not embarrass myself too terribly.

I can play.

I'm glad I've started in my younger years.

24:51
I could have started even earlier.

I wish I would have done a better job of taking it more seriously.

I took lessons when I was in high school, but I didn't really get it.

Like, how really, truly, if you work at it, you could have this for your whole life.

But yeah, I'm so competitive, and I bet you are, too.

And that's probably why when you first started, you're, like, taking it more seriously than you should.

25:09
I used to get so mad, and so did my husband.

And then you realize it's no fun if you get mad, so what's the point?

So yeah, since that's, it's good advice to anybody who's considering picking up the game or who currently plays and gets mad.

It's like there's no point in getting mad.

25:26
It really isn't.

The one thing and I, and I've come home a couple of times in my early age when I was upset with how my golf game was and everything and telling my wife I'm going to quit and then she say OK, we'll quit.

25:41
And I said no, I've got too much invested in it now so I can't quit.

I just got to figure out a better way to deal with the frustrations you can get.

Right.

Yeah.

So anyway, it's, it's, it's I've learned to have fun and I play, you know, I try to play with people that are enjoying it and having as much fun, right?

25:59
Or.

And we'd be can serious about it, but not at the end of the day.

You walk off and say it was a fun afternoon or a fun morning.

Yes, Yeah, exactly.

So you are not originally from Indiana, so were you born down in Texas?

26:16
Yes.

And you lived your younger years there and then Chicago and then Indy.

So how did I would love to hear more about kind of your life before you started running marathons.

OK so born and raised in Texas and lived in Texas till about 30 and met my wife down there and we married down in Texas.

26:36
And how did you guys meet?

We worked at the same place.

Oh, there you go, she was the water cooler.

She was in the next cube to me.

That's really awesome.

Yeah, so, so one of the things when we she announced she was we were getting married and one of the Co workers says The Who and they said Nathan and they said Nathan that used to work up and we'd already split the department, already been transferred out of the apartment to a different place.

27:01
He says, yeah, I didn't even know you guys were dating.

My wife will say yeah, he kept it undercover because he didn't want anybody to know one way or the other.

So yeah.

So anyway, yeah, we met down there and then we moved to Chicago when our first child was about two or three months old and oh, wow, we moved up there and her sister lived in the same town where we moved to.

27:24
So I got a job in Chicago, and at that time I told my mom and dad we'd probably be there for five years and then we'd be back.

And as my mom, who's still alive at nearly 95.

Mom's alive.

Wow, that's incredible.

She said you missed it by a few years, son.

27:42
So we move back, you know, we have our our winter, our home residence in Texas.

OK.

So we moved back in 2020.

So, as she said, you missed it by a few years when you said you were leaving.

Yeah, just a few.

Yeah.

27:57
But anyway, so lived in Chicago and worked there for 35 plus years and lived in this northern suburbs, commuted to downtown Chicago on a daily basis on the train.

And when not in Chicago was around the world, I was doing investment management, so I would travel around the world.

28:17
So Chicago's a great city to travel from because of O'Hare.

You get to any place in the world pretty much in 24 hours.

And a lot of times I did that.

So did that, then retired in 2020 and then headed back to Texas.

You know the pandemics going on.

28:35
Is that part of the impetus to retire?

Because you're just like, OK, this is.

It was probably close anyway, and now that or.

No, we'd I'd already planned that.

Yeah, we announced in early 2020 I was the.

Also before even.

I was the president, CIO, and I'd already planned in 2019 with our HR and our board of directors saying I'm going to be retiring at the end of 2020.

28:57
It came down to getting close to 65 and they were wanting another five years and I didn't want another five years.

So we just sort of said, OK, let's this seems like the the appropriate time to sort of making the access.

So we announced the beginning of 2020 and little did we know that you know, I leave the office in March of 2020 and never go back to the office because everything was closed and officially retiring January 1st of next year and never making it back to my office.

29:28
They actually cleaned out my office and shipped it to me in Texas because.

That's so weird.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah.

It's a weird time, right?

And we were doing everything video, so you know, video, you know, with all my team and members, but you know.

Probably some of them.

29:44
You never, Yeah, never see Yeah again.

Yeah, so we did the the move back to Texas at that time.

So I have 3 kids and my oldest son is a doctor and my youngest son is a doctor also.

But he was in a fellowship in Boston and then started looking for places to to go once he finished all of his fellowship and one of the IU Health system here and he likes D.

30:12
He's an ENT dealing with Pediatrics and so Riley Hospital for Riley so.

Just was at the ENT with my my oldest daughter yesterday.

In normal, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So anyway, so they moved here, OK?

And this was in 2021, and we started coming here because, you know, grandkids.

30:32
Yep, we want to do it.

We want to see our grandkids, so we had three at that time. 4 now.

And so by doing that, we started looking at the community and really liked what we saw.

And our kids like it here too.

So we decided at first we'd get a condo, which we did, and just see how that would work out, see if they really liked us hanging around a lot or if they sort of got tired of us.

30:59
And then the condo, you go up and down stairs.

And I didn't like the stairs.

So over the course of time, I said, OK, if we're really going to stay here, we need to get a house where we have first floor master.

We're not beating ourselves up going up and down stairs.

31:15
And so we bought a house and then with the condo and I had another son and he was getting married and his wife's a doctor of audiology also.

And so we enticed him to move here also.

So we gave him the rent, the condo out to him.

31:33
There you go.

So, so they came here.

So all the family in the United States are within a few blocks of each other.

That's so.

Cool.

It is.

It is really a fun deal.

And it sort of goes back to when I was a kid growing up.

My dad's, all of his, his mom's sisters and brothers, they all lived out in the country, but they all were within a matter of a couple of houses from each other.

31:57
And so they always, they call it a compound there.

And so my mom always kids me that I recreated the compound in Indiana where everybody can hang around with everybody.

Yeah, the Indiana compound.

Yeah.

So anyways, it's we love it here.

As I told you earlier, you know, I don't like to run in the dark, don't like to run in ice and snow.

32:18
So I'll head South somewhere in there when it starts getting.

Yeah, when it gets cold.

Enough, Yep.

And if they need us up here, we'll come back and do stuff, but we'll hang in the winter S to sort of avoid the ice and snow as best we can.

But love it here in Indiana and love it in Carmel where we're we're hanging out.

32:36
Where in Texas?

So I grew up right on the Gulf Coast, right across from Galveston.

OK, I've actually been to Galveston.

OK.

And we little town across the Bay from there is called Lamarque.

So I grew up there.

My mom still lives in the house I grew up in.

Wow, she lived.

32:52
First of all, she lives in a house and she's 95 years old.

Yeah, by herself.

That's incredible.

At times it is well.

Sorry, that's also terrifying for you.

I just went through my dad's dad lived until he was 95 down in Atlanta, GA and he was like on his own until until the very end.

33:10
Like wild to me.

Still driving?

Scary.

She has her driver's license.

But we've sort of, my brother and sister and I have sort of said you don't want you driving.

Yeah.

And as you know, you sort of go through it if your car breaks down, how you're going to get back from wherever you are.

33:29
Right, you'll walk.

She says yeah.

She says I'll walk.

No, you're not.

So.

You you won't make it, especially if it breaks down in the summer when it's.

Right.

My goodness.

Yeah.

Wow.

The house you grew up in, She's still.

There and wow.

33:44
So anyway, so I grew up there and when we started looking to, to come back to Texas, definitely didn't want to go back to the town I grew up in one, it's changed 100% from what it was when I grew up.

Not bad, not good.

34:00
I mean, it's just, you know, it's just different.

Not what I wanted to be.

I'll be quite honest.

They don't have a golf course.

So let's get to the SO.

Let's let's get real important.

Stuff let's get to the criteria yes yes.

So I wanted to be a little bit further off the Gulf Coast where I didn't get flooded on a hurricane Yep.

So when we started looking for a house, we said couldn't be flooded by either Harvey or Ike, which are the two big hurricanes that Kent has come through there in the last 20 plus years.

34:25
And so we found a house in a town called League City, which is 2025 miles inland.

But you know, it's still close enough to the Bay you're going to get you're going to get impacted by hurricane.

Still get.

Yeah.

But as I tell my mom, it's close enough that she needs me to, when we're there to do something, I can be down to the house in 1520 minutes.

34:45
That's perfect.

But not close enough where she expects me to have coffee with her every morning.

So.

So that's, that's sort of the the balancing act that I sort of got into.

Yeah.

So are your siblings, some of your siblings still down there then close to your mom?

Yeah, my sister lives in Houston, which is she's about 40 miles away.

35:01
Yeah, that's like an hour.

Yeah, yeah.

And then my brother lives over in Beaumont and he's about a 90 minute drive.

So they could, they, if she needs something, she can get there.

And she has some very nice neighbors that still sort of check on her and keep them.

And if I need something they I can get them to go down and check or do something for her.

35:18
Now does she have this is going to sound weird but does she have like a goal?

Is she like, I'm going to live till I'm 100?

Or is she like, because my grandpa was like, we asked him that and he's like, no, I'm good.

Yeah.

No, she just, she, she's a tough lady, Yeah.

35:36
I mean, that's, I mean, again, incredible.

I'm like wow.

So, but you know, my dad lived till 90.

He lived till 90, Yeah.

So you're going to be running marathons for a while, Nathan.

We'll see, yeah.

Hope the body holds.

It.

Yeah, Yeah.

Hope so.

35:52
Wow and then how old are your grandkids?

Cuz you're some of your grandkids are at the same daycare where my 3 year old still is.

Yeah, so they are 6.

I have twins that are four and then one that is 1.

OK, now is the one year old your other sons or are they all with your older son?

36:12
All with my.

Oldest son OK.

And so it's a house full.

How's that?

Four.

That's yeah.

And twins.

I just can't.

Yeah, yeah, twins.

Wow, twins are great. 4 year old twins and OK and then genders.

Are they all boys?

No.

OK, two boys and two girls.

36:28
Two boys and two girls.

OK, so the.

Twins are boys.

Nope, they're a boy.

And a girl.

Yeah.

OK, Yeah, we've talked about this.

Yeah.

And the oldest is a boy, and then the youngest is a girl.

Girl.

Yeah.

Oh, that's so fun.

It is fun, it's fun, we enjoy it, but what's really great is at the end of the day, we go home.

36:45
Right.

Yeah.

Do you ever take all four of them if they need?

You to Oh yeah, yeah, we will you know go over my wife does great job.

You know 4 can drive her crazy with it's just like anything but we will do one-on-one and let them sleepovers.

37:05
So the oldest has had sleepovers for years and now the twins have started clamoring.

It's our turn and so we had the first the boy twin over a few weeks ago and the girls coming this weekend.

So I really love the idea of the one-on-one.

37:21
Yeah, yeah.

My parents love when they get because we just have two just, you know, but you know, having that one-on-one time is really special.

And especially for if there's, you know, four of them, getting that attention is really cool.

Yeah, 4 together they can all, it can all it can be great or it can be mass chaos, right and.

37:38
Yeah, you're happy to.

Just OK, I'm gonna go home now.

Here.

You can have them back.

Yep.

Ready for you guys to March on down the road.

We'll walk.

Let's all walk home.

Yep, Yep.

And so, so your, your daughter is not in the United States, she's in London.

37:54
Yep.

How long has she been over there?

She went to Graduate School over there a couple of years ago, OK.

And she wanted to get her master's in international marketing.

And she went to King's College.

Wow.

And she wanted to do sports, sports marketing and stuff.

38:10
OK, so she, she graduated from University of South Carolina and worked for four or five years different jobs, one job in Chicago, one in Atlanta.

And then she was her last job.

She was working for Walmart remotely and their retailing and their marketing.

And so she I decided she wanted to go back, get her masters and she wanted to do it in London.

38:31
I have a niece that lives in London.

So there was an attraction a little.

Bit of a connection there.

Yeah, connection and they're very close in age so, so, so she was really excited about doing it and it the program was really great so she did there and then she decided she said I'd like to stay in London.

I said it's great, you need to find a job.

38:51
So, so, and she wanted to do sports.

So she did a great job because she's in the UK Rugby Association.

So she's in the, she's in the marketing.

So she, she has a office in the national stadium and she's very involved with rugby and she's like, she's like me, you know, they all, we're all learning rugby and how it works and what works and what doesn't.

39:14
And the good news is we can watch the games on TV because, you know, there's so many cable channels now.

And it's, it's fun.

It's she loves the job.

She loves being in sports because, and I give her credit, I mean, she had this vision of where she wanted to go and she, she's going to do done that.

39:33
And she started and she started running and she runs.

She's run a couple of half marathons now.

All right, So everybody's running, which is good.

Look at.

All of them.

That's pretty amazing.

Yeah.

In and of itself.

So I'm really.

Well, I shouldn't say I'm the only runner.

My youngest sister runs, too.

39:49
Half marathons is the furthest she's gone so far.

My middle sister has run at least 1/2 marathon, maybe only one, but she's kind of like she only wants to get into running so she can be on the podcast.

She said I'll run if I can be on your podcast.

40:05
And I said, well, OK, start right, let's see it.

Let's see it.

See what?

See how the results.

Go.

Yeah.

So your daughter in London, is she like you when you went to Chicago?

Like, hey, I'll be back in.

I'll be back after my program.

Yeah, No, I told, I told her that I said, you know, I've seen this story before.

40:20
It doesn't.

You know, you got to show back up before your mom and dad get too old, right?

So, yeah.

So we'll see.

She's having a great time.

You know it.

You know, COVID was tough for you come out of college and you get a good job, but nobody's at the office and it's tough to meet people socially and stuff like that.

40:39
Yeah.

So I think the reprieve of going to Graduate School, one of the things she said I met was good as I made her live in the graduate dorm.

She wanted her own place.

At first they said no, go to the dorm.

And she said I met so many people there that sort of helped her, you know, get back into the swing of things there.

40:58
And then she has a very good community of people that she sort of hangs out with now in London.

So hopefully she can find a sports marketing, some type of sports related someday back in the US and we're hoping it's in Indianapolis, right.

41:15
So we always tell there's a lot of upside and opportunity here.

They're actually, you know what, to be fair, there is tons in the sporting world.

I mean, we're the amateur sports capital of the world, Yeah.

So, and you know, when I was volunteering at the monument last week, there was some some college kids that were working there too.

41:33
And one of them I asked and he says, what's your degree?

And he says, I'm working on sports marketing.

And I said, and I said, how's the job market here?

She says, oh, it's really good.

We got a lot of great opportunities here.

I said.

So I relayed that to my daughter.

I bet she did.

So don't don't dwaddle too long.

41:49
A lot of kids are coming out wanting to take care of.

Those jobs, yeah.

So when so you ran London earlier this year or are you doing that next year?

I did it in 20/20/20. 23 So your daughter was in London when you ran London?

Yes, that's really cool.

Yeah, it was cool.

42:05
And so one of the things I so trying to run all six majors, although they're seven now because Abbott moved there, the goalpost.

Dollars and how many are they going to add?

They've got like two more that they're.

That are like, and I'm like, wait a minute, how do you just start adding all these when these poor people have been trying to get just to six?

42:25
Yeah.

Anyway, it'd be OK if I was 50.

Right.

You're like, OK.

I'm running out of time, folks.

Yeah, I can only do so many of these a year.

And you know, getting there is not easy, right?

But yeah, when I started doing this, I always told my kids, if you want to go with me to any of these races, I'll be glad to have you come along and Dad will pay for it too.

42:47
And so when I went to ran in London, my oldest son and his wife and the grandkids came.

And so we had them there and then my daughter was living there.

So we had a good contingent there to cheer.

Now, what they found and this they already knew having been at Boston there before, but really didn't get to feel full fill of it until you get to like a big major city and it's all run within the city.

43:15
The crowds were enormous in London.

I've heard they're amazing there too.

Yeah, and getting around is extremely tough.

And so when you're trying to get to see somebody run and you got three kids that you're pulling through.

That's harder than running a marathon.

43:30
I think yeah, it was it was a tough day for them.

So they eventually they sort of threw in the towel said we'll see you back at the the condo we had rented for the for the week while we were there.

So anyway, so fun, fun, fun for with having, you know, family that comes along with you.

43:47
Yeah.

So a little also adds a little pressure to make sure you you.

Don't again.

Yeah, got to do it.

You got to do it.

You can't really stop or whatever.

Yeah.

What was your favorite part about London?

Well, you anticipate going across the Tower Bridge, and that's about a little bit before the halfway point.

44:07
And that's a big bridge with the blue on top.

Like iconic.

It's it's the iconic, Any picture you see of the London Marathon, you're going to see a picture somewhere in there of the Tower Bridge.

And it was just as crazy as you would expect because you not unlike New York where they don't let anybody on the bridges.

44:26
They're on the bridges.

So they have both sides of the bridge lined.

You have this long wrap up that you're coming up to the bridge.

It's not as steep as what you have in New York, but still it's an iconic bridge that you're going across right before the halfway point in the marathon and it is just energy full and the the whole, the whole race is that way.

44:47
You have people wall to wall just screaming at you the whole way.

It's so great.

That's so great.

Well, especially like, you know, coming off of indie monumental, I, I think that compared to years past, this year was great.

I mean, it was better spectating weather than in years past.

45:04
And we've tried to make an effort to get more people to come out and embrace the race and cheer people on, but it's certainly just absolutely nothing compared to the world majors where you have like over a million people outside cheering.

Yeah, yeah.

No, Well, you have to understand, I mean, there's, you know, New York 55,000 of your closest friends running.

45:23
Also running, yeah.

True.

So.

So you don't really need a lot of spectators because you're not going to get out of the crowd.

You're not going to be.

You're running anyway in the front.

So.

Yes, but it is.

It is.

There's a lot of energy there for sure.

Hey reminder, this podcast is brought to you by Athlete Bouquets.

45:43
Visit athletebouquets.com to celebrate the finish lines and milestones of the people.

You love and use code.

Podcast for 10%.

Off your order and for New York, Speaking of bridges to the Verrazano is where the New York City Marathon starts.

Were you on the top or the bottom of the bridge?

46:00
I was on the bottom.

So was I, and I'm so I'm still kind of like, what?

I didn't know that you could run on the bottom.

Yeah, Did you know that going in?

Yeah, I did, because I've been across the bridge a couple of times when I was doing business in New York.

So I knew there was a top and a bottom.

I didn't know how you got chosen.

46:17
I.

Don't I still don't know.

I no idea.

All I know is you're going as my son looked at who ran New York with me also, he ran it a little bit later than I did He and he looked at and he says, oh, you're going under.

So what do you mean under?

He says, well, you're on the lower level of the bridge.

46:34
I'm on the upper level of the bridge.

Oh, he got to be on top.

He got to be up top.

And is this your older son?

Your oldest.

OK, yeah, the one with the four kids, Yeah.

So he's like, I'm going to run a marathon so I can have a break.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so he was on the, he was on the upper side of the bridge, but that was it.

46:51
That was an interesting because you start and the first thing right out the door, you're going straight up the bridge.

And so I had this pace that I wanted to to sort of get to mile two or three.

When I got to the first mile, I looked down and I said wow, I'm way behind pace, you know, even under, you know, I figured, so my goal was to run about a 825 pace and I went across the first mile at 10:25.

47:19
Oh geez, yeah, that's.

It's it's uphill, but I was at the back of the pack of my.

Your wave too.

So I mean, there's just so many people.

Yeah, you just, you're dumping people onto this bridge and it's just wall to wall people.

47:35
And some people probably shouldn't be in that wave.

Yeah, that's the challenge.

Yeah.

But it is what you know, it's the deal.

I dealt with it and figured out, OK, we're just going to deal with what we got to deal.

With keep going and you still be cute.

They're going to be a lot of people, yeah.

47:53
So that your goal time would have been under.

I was trying to 45 then.

I was trying to get to, I was trying to get to 340, OK.

I thought, OK.

And the, the coach I worked with, he you know, he's like most coaches, he's got his programs and he's put my times from training and stuff in.

48:09
And he says, you know, I said, you know, he started at 34345 and he was at DNA saying you can do better than that.

Wow.

If you get the right weather and the weather was perfect.

So it was just as I tried to explain to him he's a professional runner.

Who's your coach?

48:25
Nick Hauger and he runs for Hoka Northern Arizona Elite.

Cool.

And so, Nick, I said, Nick, you have to understand when you take off and run, there's nobody in front of you, you.

Just get to do whatever you want.

You can do whatever you want.

48:41
I said when you come to the aid stations, you have your own personal bottle.

You don't have to worry about slipping and falling and all the, all the water and all the stuff that's on the ground and cups and stuff like that.

You, you, you can set your pace.

Me, you know, I'm worried about, you know, slipping and falling, people cutting in front of you.

48:59
You know, it is just, it is what it is.

But it just said, you know, yeah, we'll shoot for, you know, as I said, 3:45 Yeah.

And then we'll see where we go for that.

Yeah, I mean, and, and you don't want to waste all your energy bobbing and weaving and trying to get in front of people.

49:16
My coach made sure she was like, do not waste your energy.

Just be patient at the beginning.

And of course, yeah, monumental again, not 55,000 people, but still decent crowd, especially kind of getting out and getting started.

So yeah, it's it's hard though, to be patient.

Yeah, no.

49:31
And it it's just, you know, you just, you know, I, you know what the pace is and you say and so about, you know, mile, you know, 18 to 20.

I said I'm going to be around 3:50, and I said that's fine, yeah.

That's fine.

49:48
Don't do anything stupid to sort of, you know, run out of energy or pull a muscle or, you know, whatever.

And when you get to, you know, from 20 miles in, try to, as I call, avoid the walkers.

You got walkers everywhere.

And then I have and I also called the zombie runners that are that are I love.

50:07
Your tags for all the.

Things they're staggering and you know, they're weaving a little bit.

You're not, you know and try to make sure they don't knock you down or, you know, cause you to.

It's a real problem or like sprain your like go on your ankle weird just trying to dodge somebody.

The worst is when somebody like goes into the water, stop and just stop.

50:26
They don't even let you know that they're going to stop.

I try to like I and I don't stop, but I always like point to the person that I want the water from.

I try to like communicate as best I can with runners to like let them know that I'm moving that way or whatever that might be.

50:41
But I feel like anybody listening, if you ever have to stop, it's totally fine.

Just raise your hand so that people know you're going to stop.

Because the hardest thing is you're like got all this momentum going through and then somebody just stops dead in their tracks to drink their water and you're like, it's going to fall over.

So I'll walk through the.

50:57
So I'll pick and keep moving.

There you go.

Yeah.

Small easy jog, but I've slowed down.

Yeah.

And the the guy that when I originally started doing that, who did the 50 with under 3 hours, he walks through the these stations and he said you can do that.

51:16
He says you just gotta be able to pick your pace back up.

That is my problem.

I would do that I think, but my problem is like getting back moving again, yeah.

So I just try to keep moving.

Yeah, no easy jog or quick walk, but I have found that that allows me to take more fluids.

51:35
Yeah, that.

You need, and I'm trying to avoid the cramps and stuff, Mile 20 to 2223, whatever.

And I had that issue.

That's the issue I had in London when I when I ran there, I cramped up at about mile 20.

So it slowed me, slowed me down.

51:51
I still ran 343, but I was on a good pace to get under 340 there.

Wow.

Do you ever think, I mean, because like you said, you started running marathons in 2020 when you're over 60 years old, you started running marathons, which I mean, it's amazing.

52:09
Do you think about, I mean, obviously you're an athlete when you we didn't really talk about your athletics yet, but are you like, man, I wish I'd have been doing this for a long time or just because you're clearly good at it?

So I ran in high school cross country.

Oh, you did.

OK, so I.

Had some.

52:24
I had some experience there, but as I explained to people back in the 70's, the running mentality was you go out and you # every day how if you're going to run quarter miles or half miles, you're going to pound them as fast as you can.

52:42
And the way you did it then, as you had, if you're running with four or five people, he had one person that would lead and they try to take it as fast as they could.

And then they got to go to the back of the line, the next one and then the next person and you and the goal was to stay up.

I mean, there was no such thing as known as an easy day.

53:01
So you pounded every day.

So that was the early 70s, you know, back in the frank shorter days when he, you know, ran Munich and run one in 72.

I mean, it's just total mentality.

So when I started to re educate myself about running I said what do you mean easy days?

53:18
What do you mean?

What is that?

What?

Is that how do you, how do you do all this stuff?

And oh, these shoes are pretty nice.

That's where I found, the first thing I found was Hocus and they said these are really great.

You don't have to run on, you know, stuff that feels like you're running on the concrete floor.

So totally different mentality today and training schedules and stuff.

53:38
So even if I'd have ran back when I was younger, I still think I would have done a lot of stupid things.

Right, burnt out and not what I mean.

Or yeah, more injuries or whatever, Yeah.

Yeah, so better scientific stuff.

More information out there today about how do you prepare for a marathon?

53:58
How do you fuel for a marathon?

How do you recover post the marathon and not doing stuff that really sort of do it doesn't mean you won't get hurt.

Everybody's a runner.

Everybody's going to, you know, you can say you won't get hurt, but you will.

And you just have to figure out how to recover and how to get whatever help you need to sort of help you on the recovery side.

54:20
Did you start out with a coach right away, like right when you started in the run club and like thinking about marathons, did you immediately then get a coach or when did that come into the picture?

So I got the run club.

They had their own marathon training program.

54:36
So it's sort of laid out.

This is the things you did.

OK?

So I, I did that for a couple of years and that worked out well.

I used that plan when I ran Monumental the first time, OK.

And that one I did in 2021. 21 OK.

54:53
Yeah, weather was great.

I was.

Going to say which?

Yeah.

What weather year was that?

That was a great weather, Yeah.

So I just started out cold.

There wasn't wasn't a lot of wind and you're able to set a good pace.

And so I BQ D there on the monumental.

55:09
And then then I ran Boston on the same plan, did that and did OK there.

And then my son said you really need to get a coach because you know, you're training yourself and you're doing OK, but you could do better and you're going to hurt yourself if you don't have somebody that sort of helps gauge where you are and what you're doing.

55:31
So that's when I started looking for a coach.

I mean, we, you know, you would read the online coaches and stuff like that.

And I had one of those do a training plan for 1/2 marathon for me.

But I really wanted the personal interaction to sort of take it.

And the good thing with with Nick, who I've worked with now since started with him before London, is that I only get a plan once a week so I don't have to worry about.

55:58
Saying that's how my coach operates, so it's kind of nice.

Give me that, tell me how you're doing.

You know, I give him feedback on a daily basis in my plan and then I can text him or talk to him anytime I, I need to get in touch with him.

But it just sort of helps you sort of gauge where you are, what you're doing and, and not really feel like, oh, I've got, I had to do a 16 mile run.

56:19
I didn't do it.

So I'm behind.

It's like, you know, here's what we need to do.

Yeah, we're just going to tweak a little bit.

Tweak it here.

Couple more miles to your easy miles so you have more of that time on feed and yeah.

So I I've found that the coach has really helped me understand a lot of stuff to sort of figure out where I am in the training program, what I need to do.

56:40
And the one thing I've sort of added to it this last training cycle is I put more races in there.

So I put, I put, you know, you have the 317 race.

Here.

Yeah, you can.

I saw that you were doing those.

So I did that and then I did the Geist Half Marathon, this sort of check where I was on my training and my training wasn't as good as where we thought it was.

57:03
But I also didn't know I was going to have all those hills over there.

Yeah, Geist is.

There's a lot of hills.

There's a lot of hills.

There, I figured we're in Indiana.

It's going to be pretty flat.

I'll be able to get a good, good time.

And I got over there and I went, you know, across the bridge, took the right turn and they got, I said, wait a second, where did this come from?

57:20
You weren't even warned in advance.

No, I didn't.

I had no.

Oh, no surprise.

Surprise.

Yeah, there's hills here and they're pretty big.

And they're pretty steep, yeah.

Yeah, they were pretty good at rolling hills.

So it was a good, it was a good eye opener.

It's great.

Mental training.

57:36
Yeah.

And of course when I told, you know, my coach, he says, yeah, that's great because you know, you got all those bridges in New York.

That was a great.

We we know we need to throw some more hills in there.

So we had a lot of on a weekly or every other week we had more hill work that.

OK, where'd you do that?

Well, when I was down in Texas, we have a big bridge to go.

57:54
Oh, that's nice.

I guess.

So I, as I, as I told him, I said on the the coast you don't have hills, but you have overpasses and bridges.

So where would would you like me to go?

So I, there was a bridge within a couple of miles of my house.

So I would go over there and work on that.

And then here there's a couple of places, you know, around that I've, I've found, you know, a couple over in West Clay that you know, I can get enough for a minute, could push up a hill there.

58:20
And then there's a couple on, Let me see, 116th St.

There's a big hill over there.

Comes.

Off by Spring Mill, you come down and you have up there and then, you know, when in doubt, I can just go over to the overpass on the Monon, Go up and down the Monon.

58:36
Run up and down there?

Yep.

And I've done that quite a bit too.

So, so there's those two or three places around to sort of give you a good workout.

And it's not like I'm trying to get two or three minutes up a hill.

You know, usually it's a push of one minute, minute and a half and then work your way back down and do it again.

58:53
So throw, you know, anywhere from six to ten of those.

That'll get your heart going.

Yeah, get your heart going.

So how many marathons total since 2020?

Or was it 2020 or 2021?

Was your. 1st 2021 is the first one I ran in.

59:09
Chicago.

No ran monumental.

Right.

Ran Monumental and then 22 ran Boston.

OK, then 23 ran London, and then 24 I tried to run Boston again, and then I ran New York.

And that's right, you're saving Chicago for last.

59:25
Chicago's for last.

OK, that's right.

Because you're it's, it'll be so special all the years you've spent there.

Yeah, I've, I've run portions of it over the course of my lifetime there.

Yeah, I used to run up and down the trail there along the lakefront.

59:41
Oh, I just love that.

Yeah, we, we had an office in the loop, so we had a gym there.

So we'd be able to run, go over, run, shower and get cleaned up and go back up to work and stuff like that.

So did that many a time.

So I sort of want to use that as the the final one and on the on the majors.

1:00:01
Yeah.

But if they keep if they keep moving the the goalpost, so they keep.

Adding them, you're like.

I may just say I'll stick to my original 6 and I'll get my 6 and we'll call it a day.

So yeah, that's it's, it's very, that whole thing is very interesting and Sydney looks amazing.

1:00:16
I had a friend do it this year and yeah, it looks great, but it's hard when you're unclear on how many now you're going to have to go do.

Yeah, Sydney's is is very hilly.

I had a friend that ran it too.

OK.

A lot of little challenging, yeah.

I've run in Sydney when I was doing business.

1:00:33
So I've run around the the Opera House and everything down there.

It's beautiful.

It's so cool.

I've it's been over a decade since I've been.

I did run when I was there.

I've since done like Peloton has these like I've got like, you know, you can like look at it.

So it takes visually.

1:00:49
So I've done that since.

But yeah, I would love to go back there.

And my oldest daughter's name is Sydney.

And so I got to take her to Sydney.

So OK.

So hopefully that'll be when it's not as hard to get in.

The problem with the world majors for me is just they're all.

It's just gotten so difficult.

1:01:04
Yeah, the the hardest one for me so far and I'm still working at it, is Tokyo, Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's I'm not sure on that one.

Yet, Yeah, like how you get on there, right.

Well, I mean, well, push comes to shove, you just pay a lot of money for a Tour Company and get it.

1:01:22
Done.

The Tour Company is.

Right.

Be nice not to have to do that.

Yeah, yeah.

No, that's, that's one.

You know, I, I'll play the lottery, but I never.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You just hope it's your lucky year.

Uh huh.

Uh.

Huh, I've heard that in Japan they don't throw their cups on the ground that they like.

1:01:41
Place them in the trash cans so you don't have to worry about slipping on cups.

I guess not.

It's kind of wild.

I'll have to work on that.

A few people were complaining.

I saw about monumental, like runners throwing, you know, stuff everywhere.

I'm like that's, that's like how it always is in races.

1:01:56
It was not.

It was definitely just kind of standard.

I always try to throw it in the trash can but it's hit or miss as to whether or not I make it.

So in London, they least When I ran in 2023, Gatorade was in a cup, but the water was in bottles, oh, plastic bottles.

1:02:15
So those were being hurled, you know, as you were running and drinking and you got through with it or you only.

Are they like tiny little ones?

They're OK, but you know, they're they're still flying.

People are still chunking them, so they're flying.

Yeah, that's a little bit.

Do they have the lids off already?

No, you have to.

1:02:31
You are having to snap them.

No, I would not have I That's a lot of energy.

Sounds silly, but not for.

It was.

I was surprised on that.

Not enjoy that.

I've heard Berlin has like plastic plastic cups so you can't pinch them so that makes that would be tricky.

1:02:48
Yeah, no, I, I saw somebody, I can't remember which races, and they were trying to drink it out of the cup and I said I just actually, you got to pinch it.

Right, smash it right, people who don't, you got to tell them that's great because.

Then they'll do that forever.

You're.

Going to, you're going to half of it's going to go down the wrong pipe.

1:03:05
You're going to get it all over yourself.

Yeah, yeah.

Once you figure that out, then it's like, oh, OK, it's not as hard.

I still manage to choke on it occasionally because you know, you're just trying to get as much as you can, which is why you're smart and you slow down.

I.

Slowed down, jogged through it.

I figured better to get it in you than on you.

1:03:23
Yeah, yes, that's so fair.

So what other races, race stories you've done?

You've run out in Arizona, Have you done any races?

Have you done Houston yet?

So will you back in the early 80s, I ran Houston, OK, and I and this is where Houston was just two loops.

1:03:45
Oh, OK.

And the double loop did the full marathon or the half?

I tried to do the full OK, I got carted in at mile 17.

Oh, so that was not a good.

But that was, you know, the younger days where you, you really knew you didn't really need to train all that much.

You could you?

Could still yeah it.

1:04:01
Didn't work out.

Real right?

Oh my gosh, How'd they pick you up in a bus or?

They actually had cars and they just drive you back down in there.

And of course my brother was running it with me at the same time.

And of course he was behind me because I ran out so fast in front of me.

1:04:17
And then I'm sitting over on the side of the chair outside of the road and waiting for the medical guys to take me back down downtown to to drop me off.

So yeah, that that was my Houston experience.

And the group I run with in Houston, they're very much bullish about the Houston Marathon, and I'll probably run that.

1:04:38
Yeah, I think I need to do it.

And it's a lot better race than what it was in the early 80s.

Oh, I'm sure it's supposed to be really spectacular.

The challenge you have with Houston, it's flat for the most part, but the weather is tricky.

1:04:54
Because it's in January.

It's in January and everybody thinks January is going to be cool.

It should be, yeah, But it may not be, right.

I mean, I can run my air condition in January down there because it will be warm enough.

You know, it will be 5055 in the morning and it'll heat up to 75, possibly 80.

1:05:13
So it's a tricky weather to run, to sort of plan.

And that's the one thing with a marathon, you can never plan the weather.

So you sort of get what you get.

You get what you get.

Yeah.

And if you get sometimes you get the cold weather.

And I think last year, and I can't recall, they had a cold front that blew through, which was great.

1:05:32
It was cold, yeah, but they had heavy winds.

So.

So you have you.

Got to pick something.

Yeah, yeah.

Do you want it cold or do you want it not windy?

Yeah.

So that that's the challenge there.

I've run Mesa, not the marathon but the half marathon, and I'd recommend anybody that wants to run a great race Mesa out in.

1:05:51
Is it downhill?

Where they?

Yeah, yeah, There you go.

Yeah, it's very much downhill.

So the marathon and the half marathon, both and.

It's point.

Is it point to point where you like?

They bust you out, drop you off and then you run back down and it's majority.

1:06:08
There's a as I understand on the marathon, there's a little bit of uphill at the first OK there, but once you start downhill, it's just, it's downhill.

Yeah.

So it's A and it's great race because the roads are open, it's very wide.

You don't have to worry about dodging people.

1:06:23
That's nice.

And it's just they really run the race really, really nice.

So I would I'd recommend that to to anybody and everybody.

Well, it's like as I start considering, you know, looking a couple of years out BQ planning, it's like.

It's a great race to BQ.

1:06:40
I would, I would say if you're really in fairly good shape and you want to do it and it's not, it's not so much downhill that you feel like you're just going straight down.

Yeah, it's a gradual.

Right.

Which is.

That's nice.

Which is really nice.

It sort of keeps you at a very fast pace, but you're not really feel like you're you're.

1:06:58
You're.

Falling.

Yeah, I did a race, a run Revel series race in Big Cottonwood, which is Salt Lake City, UT and it's that one was, I mean pretty steep down.

I did the half of a couple of my girlfriends did the full, but I was thinking that was previously my half PR before last year.

1:07:19
And I was like, man, if I ever need to BQ running down a mountain, although I don't know for a full marathon.

You just have to.

Make hurt your legs.

You just have to, I think it it would work better on a gradual.

And so it works down.

I think there's one in Washington called Jack and Jill or something like that, where you run through a tunnel and it's a mining.

1:07:39
Oh, cool.

Yeah.

And it is.

I've never heard of that.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a gradual downhill one.

Also it's it shows up on all the the top BQ right lists.

Yeah, the list to look at Mesa's.

Mesa's good for that.

Yeah, Indy's great, I mean.

1:07:55
I'm biased.

Monumental would be a great place to do.

That and and as I was telling when I was checking in some of the elite athletes on at Monumental, they were asking me about the course.

They said, have you run it?

I said, I've run it and they said is there any hills?

And I just started laughing.

1:08:10
Not really.

There's a few UPS in the neighborhoods and a few like that.

I said, so you can really just sort of set lock in your pace and you can go yeah, so it is nice.

So it's a good good course to to to BQ on also.

Yeah, there's only a couple hills to speak of, like going into broader pole like when you're going down.

1:08:29
I think it's college.

I should know the course better than I really do.

Part of me is just like I have no idea where I am at any given time in a marathon just in general.

But then yeah, in what's it called new fields like our the Art Museum.

You like run down in that like curvy car.

1:08:45
Yeah, yeah.

So there's definitely downhills to match the slide up hills I feel like.

But yeah.

What other races have you done or do you really want to do outside of majors?

So I've done The Woodlands.

I didn't do the marathon.

I did the half.

I did the half that is that is in March.

1:09:03
So and it's it's in The Woodlands north of Houston.

It's pretty, it's pretty flat course and I did the half marathon there.

Is it a trail?

It sounds like it would.

Be no, it's it's on, it's actually on the streets.

So there's a few trails that they'll but it's paved, you know, so it's not like they're on crushed rock or something like that.

1:09:24
And the funny part about that one that was done back in beginning of 2021 when no one had any races anywhere.

So this is red and this is when they were actually putting everybody in corrals, running everybody out and they lined everybody up in parking lots and so weird crap.

1:09:46
This is a different time period, but that's that's the one I ran right at the beginning.

You know, I'd been running for about a year during COVID.

And, you know, this is the first race that was, you know, offered up.

So I said I want to run the half marathon.

And so I ran 140 there.

1:10:03
And what was funny is my wife was standing near the finish line to take a picture of me coming.

She never saw me.

So it's just it's just.

And she claimed I didn't, I wasn't dressed appropriately because she said you everybody was wearing like the same dark clothes or.

1:10:19
Whatever, because it was it.

Was a cool morning.

So everybody had, you know, darker clothes to sort of get a little more sun to sort of help warm you up Texas wise.

And so she always says you got to wear some brighter clothes.

So if you see all the stuff now I wear orange.

1:10:34
Or that's funny.

Like that where she can see me.

So.

Pick me out of the corral, she says.

Don't look like every other runner out, right?

So I said, okay, I'll have some flashy clothes, but it's not something that I really want to run around town in, right?

So oh, so you do that for her.

1:10:51
That's nice.

Yeah, where she can pick me out of the crowd one way or the.

Other yeah, my, my tank top for the race was bright pink and that worked out well because I my sister's like, oh, hopefully I'll be able to spot you.

I'm like, you'll be able to see me.

Yeah.

Wearing bright pink, Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So the other thing, and I did this in New York, and I've never done it before, but I'd recommend it for anybody.

1:11:12
So the charity I was working with, Emberman Angels, they said write your name on the front of your, your singlet that you're running.

And so I'd never done it before and I did it and I'm so glad I did it because when you get in those tough miles, you have people screaming your name.

1:11:28
You can do it.

You can do it.

Yeah, keep moving, keep moving.

The downside of that is, and I point this out to you, if you have family along the way and they're screaming at you, you have no clue because everybody's.

1:11:43
Screaming your name so you don't know, Yeah.

And I just luckily in New York, I happened to just look over at miles four or five, my wife and no way son.

Yeah, they were there screaming at me.

Other than that, I, as I said, you know, it's a great idea, but you just, you know, you got to figure.

1:12:00
Out the strategy of it is think if you have family there.

Yeah, you've got to make sure you know where they are going to be along the OR.

Have them have a big like sign with your face on it or.

Yeah, I know.

I saw those too.

Yeah.

Don't ever do that.

Yeah, please don't do that to me.

Yeah.

So actually a friend of mine has a business where and she makes these little bib kits where you can put your name, like pin your name on.

1:12:22
Because I remember in New York I used name tags.

I just put like Sharpie name tags and then like package taped them to myself.

But it is so nice to have your name to your point.

But yeah, so I got white duct tape.

There you go.

And then wrote it.

1:12:37
And wrote it.

Black super fancy.

And it just glued, you know, glued to the shirt and it worked out perfectly.

But like I said, the downside is if.

If you have family.

Family you're gonna hear your name quite a bit so make sure you know where they.

Are Yep.

Now, do you listen to music while you run?

When I'm training, yeah, yeah, I do.

1:12:55
I'll listen to music sometimes I'll listen to podcasts.

I listen to a couple of your podcasts when I was was running just where I'd know exactly what you know, type of question.

What to expect?

What can I expect?

One way or the other.

Well, good.

It didn't scare you away.

That's.

Good.

Nope, it's great.

And so music.

1:13:11
But for New York you can't hear music.

I mean you just you won't hear it.

So don't even think about putting it on.

The one thing I've used the headset there is to hear the pace per mile so garment can feed you what your pace per mile is.

1:13:28
That way you don't have to bother looking down and.

Yeah, yeah.

You don't need your wristband or whatever it will say, you know, your last mile was this and your pace per mile is this.

And so, you know, whether you're on target or off target.

That's why I knew after the first mile I was in trouble.

1:13:44
Yeah.

Because 2 minutes like you're like, OK, it's not just like 20 seconds that you can like chip away at.

It's like 2 minutes is yeah, that's a lot.

Yeah, took me a while to get up here.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it is kind of mean.

They start you off like that and then you don't even get the energy of being able to see anything because you're down below.

1:14:03
You could see, actually, you could see pretty good across to the skyline in New York and everything.

So it wasn't too bad, but it'd been better if you were.

Up top, well, I stayed all the way in the middle because they told you not to run on the outside because you could get peed on from people up above.

1:14:18
Yep, I heard that too.

So I was like, tucked as far in the middle as I could be because I didn't want to, Yeah.

So I didn't get rained on way.

Running.

No, thank you.

That's not a way to start a race.

Yeah, no thanks.

So well and you've traveled, you mentioned with work so much internationally around the world.

1:14:35
Are there other places in the world that you want to go run?

Yeah.

And this is one of the things I sort of debate internally is there's a lot of nice places.

Races like Valencia would be a great place to go go run.

1:14:53
But my challenge is I only have so many that I can do.

It's not like it's not like some of these guys, you see, they said, oh, I ran this marathon this month and then I ran another one this month.

It's my body won't do that.

So it's sort of you sort of sort of way, you know, where would you like to go and run?

1:15:12
So my daughter being in London, it'd be great.

I think Berlin will be fun.

Yeah.

Valencia sounds like a great place to go.

I've been into Spain several times, so I understand, you know, some of the attraction to do there.

1:15:31
I have had a couple of.

I had a nonprofit project in Africa, so I've run in Africa, in Tanzania many a time, none of the races.

Have to talk about Kilimanjaro.

Yeah, none of the races there, but it would be fun to do something there.

1:15:46
Yeah, just to to do it.

I've played around with the idea of, you know, the marathon's on 7 continents.

That's just starting.

Yeah, right now as we speak, yeah.

Yeah, so crazy so.

But this in seven days, I should say.

1:16:02
Yeah, I've seen that one.

Too.

That one's nuts, that.

One that's that's crazy.

That's the crazy one.

Yeah.

You know, the Antarctica I sort of have looked at.

I'm not sure.

I'm not a fan of boats.

So I heard they they'll fly you there now.

OK.

Which is almost more terrifying for me.

1:16:17
I don't know, the boat thing I didn't like either, so I don't think I'm ever gonna do go there, but yeah.

So, you know, things, things like that, I just, you know, just hope.

And the question is, do I do marathons or do I back off as I did?

Right.

Do or do you just do?

Half marathons, I mean.

1:16:33
It's still challenging enough, yeah.

And a great way to see.

And, yeah, that maybe you could do more with your daughter as she's doing half marathons.

And yeah, I, I just want to go everywhere.

I just want to run everywhere.

Yeah, no, that's when I was working.

That's what I did.

1:16:49
To explore.

The way of the way of exploring.

So when I went to to Rio or or down.

Oh yeah, Oh, the Copacabana.

Yeah.

So I was when I ran along the Copacabana.

So when I was down there, I was, I had a detail that was sort of it was security detail.

1:17:07
And so when I was running down the Copacabana, they were in the car going the other, you know, behind, behind me.

And then when I turned around, all the sudden I hear all these wheels screeching and everything and they're they're doing AU turn to follow me back down the Copacabana to make sure I'm I'm OK one way or the other.

1:17:27
So I created a kiat a lot.

Of I can only imagine that with in Brazil with the traffic and being able to pull U turns pretty impressive.

It was it was impressive.

They there, they did it and they stayed right, you know, with you.

And they were just waving to me saying we're we're still here.

1:17:43
We're still there.

It's.

Great.

And I didn't know I was going to create such an issue when I went out for my run because, right, so as I went out the front of the hotel and then got over the Copacabana, they were in the car right behind.

Wow.

So.

That's wild.

Yeah, I ran, I went for work year in 2011 maybe and I ran by myself on the Copacabana.

1:18:04
I was kind of like weighing the I was like, I gotta go run on a Copacabana.

I can't be here and not yeah, but I brought like really nothing with me.

I didn't want to have anything that I feel like people might want and I didn't go for very long, but I made it.

But yeah.

It's anyway, it's a crazy place, but an awesome place.

1:18:21
Yeah.

Wow.

Rio.

Where?

Where else?

Buenos Aires, so I I've never been I went to to the the pink palace there ran over to see the pink palace and wow ran back, you know, around in the city.

I always use it as a way of to sort of go in and check check things out.

1:18:39
It's.

Such a great way to do that.

And so I've done in London, I've been into Barcelona, I've been to Madrid, Africa and been in Tanzania, and the base of Kilimanjaro run all around a lot of the villages there.

Yeah, out in the countryside.

1:18:54
We have to talk about Kilimanjaro.

OK.

So I've had another woman on this podcast, my friend Carly, who just PR D3.

She ran 316 at Monumental.

Anyway, shout out to you Carly.

And she climbed Kilimanjaro once you've done it.

1:19:12
Twice.

Twice.

Both times with your daughter?

Yes.

And was it both times part of like a nonprofit, like a trip or?

So the first time we we climbed, she, she graduates from college and I say, what do you want to do?

1:19:30
And she says, I want to climb Kilimanjaro with you.

And at that time she, you know, like any college, I said you're not in shape to climb.

I said, I'll give you a year, get in shape, get out running, walking, doing whatever, going to the gym and get back in shape.

1:19:48
So we did, she did that.

And so we went and climbed and did the the climb and climbed up there.

And the funny story I always tell about it is that so the first day you go in about 4005 thousand feet and you climb up to 7000 feet.

1:20:06
And we're in the tent together, you know, we have a double tent and she's, she's getting in there and we start unloading, you know, the sleeping bags and all the stuff.

And she says, so what's this stuff for?

She'd never been camping a day in her life.

And she's camping, you know, her climbing Kilimanjaro.

1:20:24
And she starts her camping experience as we we go up the mountain there.

So wow.

So it was, it was fun from from that standpoint.

So the. 1st that was crazy.

The first time we climbed was just father, daughter.

This is what I want to do.

1:20:40
I want to do it with you.

And we made it to the top.

We got pictures to prove everything, that we're up there.

How big was the group that you went with?

We had five people in our group, So, so, so.

The second time we climbed was in February of 2020, right before COVID, right?

1:20:59
And there I was climbing for a charity.

At that time I was on a board called the International Mountain Explorers.

Wow.

And it was a charity that supported the porters on Kilimanjaro.

So we have Kilimanjaro Porters Association K Pap.

1:21:14
And the porters are the people like the guides that they.

Carry they carry all the equipment up and down there.

So we had AUS nonprofit that I was on the board, so I did a fundraiser for them of she and I would climb and we raised about $50,000 for for it at that time.

1:21:30
Wow, that's incredible.

So that one, we didn't quite make it to the top.

So when we were climbing, we were about 18,000 feet.

And if you've climbed Kilimanjaro, you start for the summit at midnight and we were in a Blizzard and we had two groups in front of us.

1:21:52
And then our guide was is just my daughter and I and our group climbing.

And then our guide decided rightfully, he said the groups in front of you, the guides have no clue where they're going because they're blinded in in the Blizzard.

He said.

We have to move in front of them where we can lead them up or they're going to go the wrong way.

1:22:10
Yeah, that's not.

Good.

So the guy they had was really good.

He took, we took the lead and we're going up and then my daughter started having pain in her side and is on the right side.

I don't know.

I didn't know if she was having an appendicitis.

Oh geez.

So we're up at 18,000 feet and she's getting oxygen.

1:22:30
She's laying there and she's saying I don't think I can go anymore.

I said that's fine, we're going down.

She says no dad, you need to go on up to the top.

I said no way either.

You know, I'm not kidding me.

We're going back down.

We're going back down to base camp.

1:22:45
So we go into base camp and then they we take her off the mountain in a Gurney.

The next day, A1 wheel Gurney down the mountain to a Ranger station, which were then picked up by by a car and.

One wheel Gurney.

1:23:02
Yeah, I have pictures of it.

I'll show you after this.

That is insane.

Yeah.

And so you have.

So does the Porter have to like wheel it or?

So they have four or five porters on each side to sort of keep it, keep it from tipping over.

And she's strapped in there.

1:23:19
She can't.

That's terrifying.

Yeah, she's strapped in there.

OK, so we're going down Kilimanjaro.

You have all these people that are going back up and you got this person going down.

A girl is like, they're looking at you like, are we sure we want to do?

1:23:34
This like oh cool I.

Guess yeah.

And so, so you have you have that going on and this is at the end of February, COVID is just really starting to.

Did you ever consider not going at that time?

Was it like?

We didn't know.

I mean we, we run over in mid February.

1:23:52
So really.

Yeah, nothing was going on that we knew of.

Right, OK.

And we were going up.

By the time we came down the mountain, we knew something was going on.

We didn't have no clue.

We really didn't get a good feel for some of the things going on until we got back that we flew from Kilimanjaro back into Amsterdam, Amsterdam back into Chicago.

1:24:15
When we got into Amsterdam, we knew something was going on because they were checking passports and they wanted to know if you'd been to China.

Anybody that's gone to China, they were pulling out a line and moving over to the side.

So we knew something was going on, but it still wasn't clear to us.

1:24:33
We got, we got back and then, you know, I got one week of work and then the whole world shut down.

Wow.

So anyway, so that's our two experiences, you know, and my daughter said why didn't you go on?

I said your mother would kill me.

Yeah, if I left you here and went on up there and stuff.

1:24:52
I said.

I said that's the last thing I'm going to do.

Yeah.

So I said we either we're going to the top together or we're coming down together.

But we're.

Not yeah, there's no.

Way.

There's no separation here, yeah.

Oh man, yeah, I tried to explain that to you.

Well, you know, I just really wanted to get to the top.

1:25:08
I wanted to go take the top.

Yeah.

And as I told her, I said we've been to the top.

We knew what we knew I so it wasn't our one and done right.

And I always told her if she wants to do it again, we'll do it again.

Oh boy, Oh my gosh, camping for the first time.

1:25:24
Yeah, that was that was the I.

Am camping for the first time.

Camping for the first time, what was this?

Yeah, it's like, I would be interested to ask her like, what did you, like, think you're like sleeping in a Hut or something or like, I mean, I don't know.

I guess you don't know what you don't know at that.

1:25:40
Point well, it's, it's like when she she pulled out the sleeping bag the first night and and she said the silk liners on the inside, she says, what's that for?

I said, you'll find out in a couple of nights.

You're going to want that silk liner because it's going to keep you real warm when you get up to higher altitudes.

1:25:55
So you know, we're sleep when you get up to 12/13/14 thousand feet, you know, it's kind of cold at night.

I can't imagine that.

I don't have aspirations to do that.

Yeah, I, I've watched some of the documentaries.

I just saw an ad for another documentary about a, a woman who is summited Everest like 10 times or something.

1:26:15
I don't know.

But I watching those, you're just like, holy cow.

Yeah, I have no no interest in Everest because it's just it's too crowded, whereas, you know, Kilimanjaro is dangerous too.

So I don't, I don't want to downplay that.

I mean, walking around at 19,000 feet, there's not a lot of oxygen up there.

1:26:33
So you don't want to spend a lot of time up there.

But it is very achievable if you're in shape.

If you're not in shape, you can still make it, but it can be, it can be challenging for you.

So it depends on how many days you take to get up there.

1:26:50
And we usually took 7 to 8 days where you can acclimate as you move up higher up into the altitude.

But there are some tour guides that will take you up in five days, and I say good luck.

Yeah, so climbing Kilimanjaro or marathon, which one's more difficult?

1:27:07
Both.

OK, fair enough.

Both.

Both are, you know.

Really hard.

Really hard because Kilimanjaro, you're climbing at night, OK, So you're moving up to the summit at night and you're, you're going up and you're sucking for oxygen the best you can.

1:27:25
The story I like to tell is, you know, you got, you know, I'm older, one of the older people climbing.

OK.

And you see the young kids that, you know, will pass you by sometimes on the trail as they go up.

And then you see them later just laying alongside of the trail trying to figure out how they're going to get the oxygen.

1:27:45
And there's this, the Swahili saying it's called pulley.

Pulley, which means slow, Slow.

Oh, and so you just, you go slow.

If you go fast, you're going to, it's not going to work.

So you spend a lot of time just, you know, taking your time moving slowly up the mountain and make sure that you don't try to overexert yourself because you will.

1:28:08
I mean, it is you can feel your heart pumping and everything and you're taking as much water to keep hydrated on.

But once you reach up to a certain altitude, all your water freezes.

Right.

So then you don't have water.

1:28:23
So you got to have a thermos that you hope you have some, keep some water in it.

It's wild.

It's a, it's a, it's a taxing, you know, physical, just like the marathon.

You mean you got to take your water and your, your Gatorade and your gels and stuff as you move along.

And if you don't, you're going to hit the wall and it's not going to be pleasant.

1:28:41
The same thing you're climbing a mountain, you get if you don't, if you're not hydrating as you move up, you're going to hit the wall and it's going to be tough.

So you have been married for 40 years, 40 plus now or?

40 + 41 in January, Come on.

1:28:58
So 40 years of marriage, three kids, has she, has Chris ever run with you?

Had any interest in running?

She ran early in her marriage.

OK, She gave it up.

She said, you know, that's for you, not for me.

Yep.

But she still does.

1:29:15
Works out.

Yeah, she's like my parents.

Goes to Orangetheory Fitness and does stuff along those lines.

Yeah and still walks.

Proficient Walker likes to walk and to do stuff.

She doesn't really walk.

She it's a fast, fast walk.

It's it's as AI walk along with her and I said, where's the fire we're going to?

1:29:33
Because.

Yeah, this is not a leisure you're.

Like I'm going to have to start jogging to keep up with you.

This is not a leisurely pace that you've got me on here.

Yeah, so when you and you had, you know, big job traveling all the time, you're going to give some of us younger married people some advice on how to stay married for 40 years.

1:29:53
It, it's a, it's a fun filled experience path along you go, you know, you have the highs, you have your lows.

There's challenges and stuff.

We always kid sometimes each other.

We, we always said, you know, if we said 40 years, we'd say 30 years, eight years of good marriage.

1:30:10
There was two years with the oldest child that we're not good because he was, he was a terror.

No, we always kid him that.

But you know, it's just, you know, there's, there's always challenges and you just have to work together as a, as a couple.

1:30:26
This is, you know, this is what you committed to and this is how you're, you're going to tackle it.

She did a great job raising the kids.

Because as you can tell, you know, if I'm traveling around the world doing all this stuff, somebody's got to be at home taking care of making sure the kids are doing what they need to do at school and taking care of the the things that need to be done.

1:30:48
And then dad shows up and disrupts everything.

The funniest, funniest story is, you know, I go, you know, I used to have this trip that I would make to Europe early June every year because there was conferences and stuff that I would go and see.

And one time I called home and got a hold of them.

1:31:09
And I said, well, how's things at home?

She says, we're not at home.

I said, where are you?

She says.

We're at Disney World.

We went to Disney World.

You want to go to Europe, we're going to Disney World.

I took the kids to Disney World.

So.

So anyway.

1:31:25
Yeah, you're like, oh, all right.

OK, glad you're having fun.

Yeah, enjoy it.

So things like that, you know, where, you know, they have to, you know, you, you work through make sure that you're both supportive of each other and the things they want to do.

And she, you know, she, she had her graduate degree and stuff like that, but she really wanted to be the mom and that helped in being me being able to do some of the things I was able to do on a professional side, so.

1:31:54
Did you do anything big for 40?

No, we did it.

What year did we do that?

Maybe it was 30.

We did.

So for a 30th anniversary, I gave everybody the chance.

We decided, and you're going to laugh this when I said we went to our honeymoon in Hawaii.

1:32:13
So I said we can go, you know, take the kids and the family.

We'll go to Hawaii together or we'll go wherever else everybody wants to go.

We went to Disney World because that's where they all roll me.

Disney World's.

1:32:29
OK, but it's not my favorite place to go.

Yeah, but the kids love it.

My wife loves it.

So not only did we go to Disney World, but we did it during the between Christmas and New Year's.

Oh, and so the parks are packed.

Yeah.

1:32:45
And so we did that.

But, you know, so that was one of the special things we did with everybody.

That's cool.

It was cool.

Yeah.

Wow.

Wow.

Disney World.

We still haven't done it.

We will at some point, yeah.

I don't know if I'll ever do a Disney race.

I've been intrigued by it, but it's like the world majors.

1:33:02
It's like impossible to get into them.

You got to know somebody who knows how to do it.

Yeah.

Well, I've had people that did the goofy challenge.

Yeah, Yeah, yeah.

That's.

Yeah, I'm not sure, Dopey.

That's like all the, I mean, you're just like, OK, it's a whole another world.

1:33:17
Yeah, I have a friend.

I have a friend that's doing the Disney marathon coming up.

OK.

Yeah, in January.

He and his he and his son are doing it, and he saw my Boston time, he says.

I won't be close to that.

Yeah, well, like people like stop and take pictures with character.

It's like a whole Yeah, it's different.

1:33:33
It's.

Not really a race, right?

It's an event.

It's an experience and an event.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Well, I can't believe we've already been talking for an hour and a half.

Wow.

Can you believe that it is?

It flew by.

Absolutely flew by.

I could talk to you all day because I know you have more stories.

1:33:48
My goodness.

That happens when you get old.

Well, I didn't mean it like.

That stories.

I didn't mean it that way, so I'm going to ask you the end of the podcast questions now.

And we've touched on them a couple times, actually, But the first one is your favorite running song and mantra.

1:34:08
So you mentioned a mantra earlier.

Yeah, so running songs, not really stuck on one song, but I'll listen to country and western.

OK.

Is that the Texas NU.

That's the Texas NU OK.

And then when I was in college, I was a a DJ and a discotheque, so a disco.

1:34:30
So I'll have, I have, I have sold music that I listen to.

The kids think it's crazy because they'll hear some of the old stuff that I really love to listen to.

So I did that.

So I'll listen to either one of those.

Two genre.

Well, what was your DJ name?

It was Nathan, but I had there's I had a jumpsuit that I'd wear.

1:34:48
I had AI had a rainbow Afro wig.

Sometimes I would wear.

I mean, it just, it was.

So here's a funny story associated with that.

So a couple of years ago, I was at a fundraising event for my school university.

1:35:06
I went to Sam Houston State University.

So they were kicking off the football season.

So I was there and my roommate is the one that talked me into coming.

So I'm there.

He and I, we're seeing other people we played, you know, baseball with and athletics at the time.

And there was a couple of couples and people are over there to the side and they were talking and talking.

1:35:26
And then finally one of the guys walks over.

He says I got to ask you a question and roommate stand a right next to me and you sort of think, oh, he thinks I played baseball or all this stuff.

He says, were you the DJs?

I said yes, of course, my Ruby just died.

1:35:44
Laugh, He said.

That's the only thing to remember you of at school is that you worked at this nightclub and and did all this stuff.

So.

So anyway, that's, that's the, that's the, the sort of the music I'll listen to, but I'll listen to whatever rotates up and you know, Spotify helps you sort of rotates through a lot.

1:36:02
Of stuff.

So they do that mantra I, you know, if you look, I have a medical bracelet on and on the very bottom it says never too old.

So when you're when you're feeling, you know, OK, this, this next repeat 800 is not going to feel real good.

You just look down and say, okay, you're never too old to do all this stuff.

1:36:20
You got to do it.

Keep doing it and keep moving forward.

Never too old.

It's so good.

And then how did you say slow?

Slow.

How did you say that?

Poly, Poly, Poly.

I like that as it's like, especially at the beginning of a race like.

Yeah, go out.

That's, you know, you know, Swahili.

1:36:36
I learned, yeah, when I was in Tanzania doing stuff, you know, pulley, pulley.

Don't you know, they always would give on the Americans are people we'd we'd bring over to work on our project.

They would say pulley, pulley, pulley, pulley.

Slow down, you're working too.

Hard right, Yeah.

1:36:51
And we're like Americans.

We're like, we got to do everything.

We.

Got to do it now.

We got to get it done, yeah.

Yep.

And then next finish line or milestone.

Well, on running, I want to get to Berlin.

Obviously, I want to keep keep working at the majors and try to figure out what we're going to do there.

1:37:09
But near term, you know, I'm just, you know, finished New York.

So I just want to enjoy that for a little bit and then sit down and figure out do I want to do something in the spring and sort of that.

But the big milestone is keep running.

Yeah, I just want to stay, stay keeping the ability to do it because it's just, it's a lifestyle I like.

1:37:31
It's fun.

You get to meet all these younger people that are running.

And one of the nicest things I got at Monumental is I was talking to one of the checking in, one of the elite runners, and we were talking, he had a Boston Jack.

And I said, oh, I ran Boston the same year you did.

1:37:48
He says, what I like you, he says, and you're my idol.

And he said, what do you mean I'm idol?

I can't run near.

He says, yeah, but I want to be running when I'm your age.

And I said, well, stay with it.

Just don't, you know, don't abuse your body.

Yeah, yeah.

1:38:03
Be smart.

Listen to it, listen to it and you know when you need rest, take rest.

And when you don't, you know, work hard at it.

So how have you run since New York?

Yeah, I so Saturday I did.

So I have a little bit of routine that I sort of do post a race.

1:38:20
So Saturday I did 3 minutes walk, 3 minute run easy and I did it for about 54 minutes.

So that got me there and then Sunday was off.

Then yesterday I ran 9/10 of a mile and a walk a 10th of a mile.

And I'll do that again tomorrow and check out, see how things are going.

1:38:39
And then at the end of the week, I'll put a nice easy, slow run.

And then next week I'll add another day or two of running into it and sort of gradually work back up to about 5 days.

And then we'll see where we go from there.

Nice.

And then add maybe I have an Elliptico that I ride.

1:38:56
You have an Elliptico?

My mom has one.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, do your kids make fun of you for it?

Because we give my mom a hard time.

Oh yeah, yeah, they do.

And when I ride it around, you know, W Clay or down to Carmel, up and down the monarch.

Oh yeah, you do get a lot of.

People are like, what in the world is that?

1:39:12
What contraption is that?

But what a great.

I mean, it's, it's a great contraption.

You don't have to be stuck in a gym on an elliptical.

You can go wherever you want.

My coach was skeptical of it at first.

OK.

He sort of looked at it and said, I'm not sure.

But then he, he incorporated into training, he said early and he said we can do some speed work on it.

1:39:30
We can put you some hill work on it to sort of help you and take some of the pounding off your legs and stuff like that.

And that, believe me, I think that helped build a a nice base to sort of when we moved out out of the five day running to six day running and then put more speed work in.

Yeah, so smart.

1:39:46
So we'll probably do that again.

Sort of seemed to work.

Yeah, love it.

Well, thank you so much for doing this, Nathan.

It was so nice to get to know you better, hear your stories.

We're gonna have to figure out how I keep tabs on you.

Are you on Strava or?

I am on Strava OK, so you can find me on.

Strava, find you.

1:40:01
There's another guy in Indianapolis named Nathan Partain, by the way.

You know, do you do know that?

Yeah, he's he's.

He's different from you, yeah.

He has, he has a religious tone.

How's that?

He sure does.

I, like, Googled it.

I was like, oh, Nathan's a pastor.

And I clicked.

I was like, OK, different.

Not that that's a, you know, bad thing, but it was like, that's not what I expected.

1:40:20
Yeah, no, the kids, the kids have told me that and I think even my in laws have told me that yeah, there's somebody else by your name.

Wait, what a weird thing.

Yeah, it is an unusual name.

Yeah.

And to have somebody in the same town location to you, yeah, it's great.

1:40:37
My parents have a place in Naples now, and at their Country Club there's another Mark Hill.

So my dad's name's Mark Hill.

And it's like of course, so like it causes problems with like being all.

The well, just he just got, he's just going to figure out what his member number isn't.

That way he can just keep.

1:40:53
Right to another mark.

Yeah, exactly.

Let Mark take up.

It's too funny.

So.

Well, thanks again.

It's a.

Pleasure.

It's always fun.

It's pleasure.

And always willing to to help whatever I can.

Thank you and thank you to everybody who listened and happy running the end.

1:41:09
If you enjoyed this Sandy Boy Productions podcast, please share, rate and review, and you can find me on Instagram at Ally T Brett under score runs.

See you next week.