Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 83

This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast that celebrates the everyday runner.

I'm your host, Ali Brett Knocker.

Whether you're a season marathoner, half marathoner, ultra marathoner, prefer shorter distances or just getting started, if you run, you are a runner.

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And every runner has a story.

Join me each week.

As I share these stories and we cross finish lines and celebrate milestones together, this podcast is brought to you by Athlete Bouquets.

Celebrate the finish.

Lines and milestones of the people you love by visiting athletebouquets.com.

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Hello and welcome to episode 83.

This is Allie.

And believe it or not, I still haven't run since November 9th, which was the Indianapolis Monumental Marathon where I ran the full and I got APR.

0:59

So if you want to read or listen all about that experience, I did post a recap on my blog, which is on athletebouquets.com.

So go check that out.

I'll also be sharing that on Instagram.

You can follow me at Ally ALLYT.

Brett Brett under score runs, so more detail than you may even want, but I love race recaps because not only does it help share my experience with others, but I'll go back and read them or listen to them before doing the race again because I have a horrible memory.

1:31

So Congrats again to everybody who did that.

Congrats for all the finishers for the Every Woman's Marathon.

They had their inaugural race in Savannah, GA last weekend and then coming up this weekend will be the Philadelphia Marathon.

So good luck to everybody tackling that.

And then race season's almost over, which is sad, but then it's full on holidays.

1:51

So we put our Christmas tree up for the first time before Thanksgiving or maybe the second time, but it's certainly the earliest we've ever put our tree up and it just makes me happy.

So there I feel like we can do whatever we want now and it's really nice.

So during this week's episode, I get a chance to get to know somebody that I've met a couple times in person and someone that I've really been wanting to get to know better.

2:15

So I can't wait to introduce you to my friend Whitney Miller.

Whitney has a business called Transcend Training and Performance, but she was a collegiate swimmer and she swam from the age of 6.

And so we talk about how difficult that transition is going from athlete to then just like being in the normal working world.

2:37

And we talked about how she also from a young age knew she wanted to be a teacher, but then once she got into teaching, it wasn't really what she expected and it wasn't it didn't work for her.

So then figuring out what the heck to do from there.

We talked about her first marathon.

We talked about how her relationship with running has changed over the years and how difficult it has been recently and the impact that's had on her.

2:59

And we talked a lot about mindset during this episode, which I always find really helpful.

That's something that Whitney helps her clients with.

And so that that kind of weaves into all of her life story really.

So please enjoy this conversation with Whitney Miller.

3:18

All right.

Welcome, Whitney Miller.

Thank you have A to be here.

I was saying it before we hit record, and so now we're just going to say it again, but I am obsessed with your Gray hair.

Well.

Thank you.

I was telling you, I've had Gray hair since I was 16 and I probably started coloring my hair when I was 18.

3:37

So for the longest time, I would go every five weeks, which was like a nightmare in my eyes.

Like it was not self-care.

I hated it.

And so when the pandemic came, like we all did, we were like, oh, can't get my hair colored.

And I just was like, screw it, like I'm just going to not.

3:53

And it took probably 3:00-ish years to get all the color out of my hair.

But now I'm like, I will never go back.

Sometimes I really want to get my hair colored like a purple or you know, like because I used to do real fun colors like highlights and stuff, but I don't even want to do that because it's like then I have color in my hair so.

4:12

You're going through the process of getting it out of your hair.

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, it's so pretty and I really want to embrace my Grays.

I've been thinking about it like as they start popping up, I, you know, I just want to embrace it.

And a lot of them are actually pretty silvery and I think it'll be pretty.

4:30

And I'm like, you know what?

Screw this.

Like spending so much money on just like trying to hide it.

I don't know.

Maybe I'll change my mind when there's more, but I just don't.

I don't know.

Well, here's the thing.

You can always color it again.

Like if I hate it, you know, one day I'll just start coloring my hair again, you know, So you can always try it.

4:47

And then if you're like, this is not it.

But there is a period where you have to really be like, oh, this does not look good and I just have to ride it out.

It's kind of like when you go from short hair to long hair is there's that in between stage.

Where you have to ride it out.

So I always tell people that when you know they do it, especially if you're used to your hair, like my hair, I used to dye my hair almost black.

5:10

So I was so used to having really dark rich hair.

And my hair is actually not super, super dark.

It's actually a little lighter than, you know, I color it.

And so it was very different for me to, you know, to see myself looking differently.

Right.

Yeah, yeah.

5:27

I accidentally dyed my hair black once in high school.

Oh yeah, yeah, whoops.

You know, like a box of hair color or whatever.

I think we all have been there, yeah.

Sun in all that stuff.

Yeah, I stopped dyeing my hair.

I think it in caught like by the time I got to college I wasn't dyeing my hair anymore and now I'm really bad to your point, like going to the salon.

5:45

Well now for me, I don't mind it but I like get my hair cut like every other year almost.

It's so bad.

But I have really thick healthy hair for the most part so it doesn't require as much upkeep which I can appreciate.

Which is probably, again, part of the reason why I'm like, resisting the idea of having to keep up with coloring it.

6:03

Yes, Yeah, I can relate to that too.

When you have healthy thick hair, it, I mean, it just takes longer to color.

It takes longer to cut, like it takes longer to do.

It's just all of that.

And, you know, you get used to a certain way, and it's like, OK, like, I'm gonna keep this because it becomes a pain.

6:21

I mean, I was sitting in this lawn chair for three hours.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I've been there.

I remember getting highlights and took four hours one time.

I was like, this is stupid.

Do you know all the things I could be doing for three hours?

Yeah.

Come on.

Yeah, so.

Man, well, you and I have met a couple times at Expos, yes.

6:39

And then of course, on the Internet, on Instagram.

Yeah.

And I just, I'm so excited that I finally get to sit down and feel like I get to know you.

Yeah, on a deeper level.

So yeah, I can't wait.

You are not from Central IN You live further South in Indiana.

6:56

And then where are you from originally?

So I grew up on the east side of Indianapolis at Torrance Central and then went to University of Indianapolis for college.

Yep.

OK.

Yeah.

And I saw you were a big swimmer growing.

Up yeah.

So I started swimming when I was 6 and swam all the way through college.

7:15

So it was a huge part of my identity for a long time.

And I had a really like, challenging transition afterwards, not knowing what to do with all that time.

Like I'd been spending five plus hours in the pool daily, you know, And it was like, what do I do?

7:36

And so at the time, I didn't really understand what I was experiencing and how challenging it was.

But looking back now and knowing much more about the athlete transition and like working with clients on the athlete transition and doing research on that, definitely I, I struggled in the transition from athlete to adult athlete.

7:57

Like, what does that look like?

What do you do?

How do you spend your time?

How do you not overtrain, which was a big part of my problem, you know, And so it was, it was definitely a lot when I transitioned.

But yeah, swimming was I at times did not love it.

8:15

It was something that was kind of a love hate thing at times, but I would never take it back.

It made me who I am today and it's it's one of the best sports out there in my opinion.

So I'm a.

Horrible swimmer.

I wish I was better.

Yeah, I've said this before.

I just got a septoplasty.

8:30

So I had a extremely deviated septum my whole life and didn't realize it until finally, like my kid got tubes and I learnt, was learning more about kind of the, you know, what's inside your nose and ears and whatever.

And I was kind of like, you know, I wonder if I should just get mine checked.

And I did.

8:46

And sure enough, like I needed to have something done so I could actually have all of my breathing.

So now I feel like I could swim because I can actually breathe now, for sure.

So.

But growing up, I never really got into swimming or learned how to swim the right way.

Just yeah, you know, just for fun.

9:02

Yeah, well, I will tell you.

I, I mean, I work with adults on swimming too.

So, you know, like if you ever want to learn, you can always, you know, let me know and we can always.

Do some lessons because lessons.

Yeah, because there is a, a right quote way to breathe, you know, and there is a right quote way to to swim efficiently.

9:23

And just a lot of us just don't know that.

And so, you know, it just makes you more comfortable in the water.

And maybe that opens up your, you know, scope of athletics to like a try or whatever.

And so, you know, a lot of clients, if they do come to me to work on tries, that is the area that they're the weakest is like the swimming part.

9:45

Yeah, OK, yeah, I might have to take you up on that.

I remember my roommate in college and her friend, like we're big swimmers and I had a stress fracture, the only real running related injury I've ever had.

And I was like, well, I guess I need to swim because I need to work out.

And so they tried to teach me, but again, like I just couldn't quite.

10:02

I couldn't breathe enough to to do it without feeling like I was going to drown.

Sure, sure.

So and now I know why at least I just kept feeling like I just can't do this.

Like what's going on did.

It did it affect your running too?

Oh my gosh, Whitney, now that I can breathe, I'm like, oh.

10:19

Yeah, I wonder.

You know, especially I think about like, taking a Peloton class and the instructor is like, you know, coaching you through breathing.

And I'm like, how do people do this?

Like, I don't understand.

I can't do it without, like, feeling horrible.

And so, yeah, it's made a big difference now in my ability to breathe.

10:37

And now I I have to like consciously think about it though, because I think I'm so used to not having that airway sure, that I almost don't even.

There's not a reflex.

Yeah.

It's like you have to retrain yourself.

Yeah.

Anyway, so at the age of 6 you started swimming.

Do you have siblings?

10:52

Do you have any?

I do, I have a brother who's younger than.

Me younger.

OK.

Any other swimming in your family or is it just something that you kind of stumbled?

Into, I mean, I, I really have no idea how I, you know what I mean?

I think it was probably like, I took swim lessons, liked it, you know, it was like, oh, OK, we'll put you on a swim team.

11:14

And then I just happened to be good.

And that was kind of, you know, what I think most likely kept me wanting to do it was that I, you know, was talented at a young age and throughout my career.

So I think that was part of probably as a little kid, like, you know, the excitement of it all.

11:32

Right.

Yeah, for sure.

Gosh, I mean, a collegiate swimmer, yeah.

I can only imagine the number of hours and all of that that took and then talk people through like what that's like being a collegiate athlete and specifically like swimming because you mentioned like 5 hours in the pool.

11:52

Like what is it?

What is?

It yeah, so I mean a typical day in a collegiate athletes like a swimmer is world and this is like Division 2.

So like take that as a little asterisk.

This is not Division One right?

Like I?

Went multiply it by.

Like, I went to a division two school very heavily focused on academics and athletics, but academics being the the more important piece.

12:17

Our coach was very focused on academics.

We had one of the highest GP as as a team for all of UND at the time.

And he was very, very like serious about that.

He wanted us to be successful in the classroom as well as in the pool.

12:33

Gosh.

That's great.

It was, it was, and I never felt pressured to like, you know, go to practice versus study for a test.

Like if there was something that you know, was coming up that was really, really important and you really felt behind, you could voice that to him.

12:49

And obviously, if you didn't take advantage of that, you know, it's something that he was he allowed you to do.

But typical day, wake up at probably 4 something, maybe five, practice at 5:00 or 5:30 in the morning.

13:04

For us, it was dry land.

So anything like, yeah, that's why we called it.

But anything outside of the pool.

So it was lifting, it was calisthenics, it was strength and conditioning, It was, you know, any type of maybe drills outside of the pool that you could do with bands or things like that.

13:23

And then we would get in the pool and swim for a shorter amount of time.

So practice in the morning probably was from 5:30 or 5:00 to 7:30 or 7.

So 2 hours, 2 1/2 hours.

And then, you know, we had to be done by 8 because classes started at 8.

13:39

So really it was like you kind of ran from class or practice to eat breakfast to class like if you had a.

Date.

Did you go to class with wet hair like?

All the Oh yeah, cuz I feel like yeah, my hair was always in a ponytail and it was just wet.

Yeah, all the time, constant.

It was never dry.

My hair is super thick so it takes like days for it to dry.

13:57

Yeah, I feel you.

I like feel your pain.

This is one of the first times I've ever done a podcast recording with my hair down.

Yeah, like I've seen.

Like literally last week I had it up.

I just finished a workout, showered.

I was what I was like, it's how I roll.

Yep, Yep.

So I feel.

That Yep.

14:13

So you'd go to class all day, you know, and then you would have in the afternoon, you'd have multiple options of practice.

Like usually we had a practice at like 2 and then we had a practice that maybe like four or five or something like that.

And you could kind of go depending on what your class schedule was.

14:29

And then practice in the evening was the same 2 to 2 1/2 hours, but it was all in the pool.

So, and it was split in between like distance swimmers and Sprint.

So I was a sprinter.

So I was in the the Sprint group, you know, and that was looked way different than, you know, distance swimmers and you know, the length of their practice, but also like the intensity and what they were doing versus I mean, runners know that like it's very similar.

14:55

So that was kind of a normal day.

And then we had meets, I mean probably every weekend for the entire season, you know, and the seasons long, like college, some season is long.

And so you know, if you didn't have it every weekend, you got it.

15:10

Every other maybe you had a meet during the week too.

Like it just depended.

So and then it would work its way up to conference and then nationals.

So just a long season.

The season usually starts in like September, October, probably September and then goes through February if you go to nationals.

15:30

Yeah.

And then you're training all year round.

Correct.

Yeah, Yeah, a lot of college, I did not train in the offseason.

Like I I worked out, but I didn't swim in the offseason, which probably wasn't the best thing to do as a collegiate athlete, but I had been swimming for so long.

15:47

I just needed like a break, you know?

And so a lot of us on my team at that time, we all had grown up swimming like we were age group swimmers.

We swim when we were a little like this was our 15th year of swimming.

And so a lot of us, I know didn't really do what we should have done over the summer, but it is what it is, yeah.

16:09

But at the same time, you know, yeah, you risk then just complete and utter misery and burnout.

Right, right.

Exactly.

Which has got to be.

Yeah.

And did you ever, like, in college, have Olympic aspirations or anything like that?

Or was there a time in your, you know, upbringing where you were like, oh.

16:26

Yeah, so when I was in high school, I really, really wanted to go to like Texas A&M, Like I wanted to go to a really big school, D1 school.

I looked into going to Ball State, but I was on the cusp of being good enough to swim in D2, but like barely good enough to swim in D1.

16:45

So it was like I could have walked on.

I could have made the team, but I probably would have sat the bench and, you know, only swam a handful of times for my freshman year, maybe my sophomore year, who knows.

And I just didn't really want to do that as an athlete.

I wanted to swim, I wanted to compete, I wanted to participate, and I wanted A-Team atmosphere where I didn't feel lesser than, you know?

17:09

And so I chose AD 2 school, and I also really wanted a school.

At that time I was wanting to go to school for education, so I was really looking for a school that had a really great education program and swimming and education.

17:25

Like they both had to be there or I wasn't going to go.

I looked at University of Evansville and I really love their education program, but I did not jive with the swim coach.

So it was like, OK, not going there.

Like I was very, very diligent and that it's very serious about just where I was going to go for college and like my future and I was just a very serious.

17:49

For you I was not I.

Was like, I kind of wish I, you know, I don't know if I look back, I'm like, man, if you could just know what you know today and just enjoy the time a little bit more and not be so serious and you know what I mean?

Well, yeah, I think there's just that, yeah, there's the balance, right?

18:05

Like I was really on the side of having as much fun as possible.

Yeah.

And you know, I did well in school.

I ended up with just a fine GPA.

But you know, at the end of the day, especially looking out over career stuff, you're like, wow, if I would have actually, you know, made better connections, done more like been involved in more at school, you know, but is what it is.

18:29

Right.

And hindsight's always 22 is, you know, Yeah.

So.

Yeah.

So did you have a did you get a scholarship at all?

No, I did not.

I got a lot of academic scholarships, but I didn't get an athletic one.

OK.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah, yeah, it was.

And UND is known for their usage of scholarships towards international students.

18:51

So there were very few students on my team that were from the states that got scholarships.

There was a very like small handful.

So UND really at least swimming department and it's still this way.

They really like to utilize their funds to have international swimmers come and I don't know the reason to that.

19:13

International swimmers typically are very good.

So that's, you know, maybe the reason, but there wasn't a lot of like money to go round at that time for people who were in the States and, you know, were were good, relatively good, you know what I mean?

Now during, I mean, I guess this whole time of your life, high school, college, did you ever have running as like a cross training?

19:38

Or when did I hated it?

Yeah, yeah, I hated it.

Like, I was like, this is the worst thing ever.

We would have to run at morning practice and we would run for.

I mean, I want to say it was like a mile and a half.

It wasn't that much.

Maybe it was 3, which I mean is a little bit, but I hated it.

19:56

Like I was like, this is the worst thing ever, I'm going to die.

So no, running was not at all in my wheelhouse like and I I hated it.

Yeah, I was the same way, at least in high school.

I found running in college, but in high school I was a soccer player primarily and like I hated the mile warm up.

20:14

I was like, I will run sprints all day.

I'd so much rather do that.

Like, don't make me run for 10 minutes or I'll yeah.

So it's just kind of funny.

It is funny.

It is funny, yeah.

Yeah.

So when, when did I want to also talk about your education, studies and background?

20:31

But when?

So running didn't come till after college then.

OK, so let's talk about when you knew you wanted to be a teacher and study education because you knew that earlier on in your life.

So I wanted to be a teacher since I was 6.

Six Man, I was such an impressive child.

Oh my gosh, like serious child.

20:48

I was like, you know, 6 going on, like 20 or whatever, But I was the kid who, like, would play school with my brother and, like, always wanted to be a teacher.

So I knew very early on I wanted to be a teacher.

And I think that's why it was so devastating when that, like, kind of teaching didn't work for me.

21:10

But yeah, I knew for a long time that that's what I wanted to do.

There was like never anything else.

That's so interesting to me.

And I've had somebody else on here where it's like, OK, I really wanted to do this.

And then I got into it and I was like, wait a minute, that's not what I want to do.

I think it's such an interesting topic because, you know, you have this your whole life.

21:30

You're like, this is what I meant to be.

This is what I'm going to do.

And then you get there and you're like, well, now what the hell do I do?

Yeah.

What did you study for, like early elementary education or what type of education?

So my license was in K through 6.

So I did have some like as part of my like, you know, schooling.

21:48

I did have some like early preschool education, but my license was elementary.

OK.

And so how like describe I guess going into that and like, what made you realize it wasn't like what you were supposed to be doing?

22:03

Yeah, so I started teaching and I taught 3rd grade.

I did my student teaching at a school.

Well, I did.

I had two placements for student teaching, and one of them was at a school that was like very, very well equipped in technology.

22:21

So they were very like ahead of the times as far as how they were educating students, what they were using to educate students.

And I got a job at a school that was like going back in time.

I mean, we were still using overheads.

22:36

And at this time, it was 2008, OK?

So, like, overheads should have been on their way out.

You know they were on their way.

Out like an overhead projector for anybody who's young and listening.

Correct.

Yeah, with the light clear, you know, sheets that you put on top of the box out of the light and you write.

22:53

Yeah.

And so that was a really big, like, shock to me.

And then also, I came from a school in my last student teaching placement that was like very community based, like very everyone was there to support everyone.

Everyone shared everything like I was, I was accepted as almost like a staff member, you know, when I soon taught and I went to a school where it was like, we are very much like keep to ourselves on our own.

23:20

And so that was a huge piece of like, wow, this is really not what I thought it was going to be.

And then there were some things that happened that my first year teaching that really just caused me to lose faith and like the teaching world and the people involved in the teaching world.

23:44

And it really left a bad taste in my mouth.

So at the end of my first year, it was like, I'm getting the hell out of here.

Like I'm not staying here one more minute.

So applied for new jobs and I went to I went back to the school I student taught up and but I was teaching ESL under an emergency license which I didn't.

24:04

English.

English has second language, she has students.

And I didn't have a license to teach that.

I was teaching under emergency license.

So I was trying to figure out like, OK, I got to go to classes, get back enrolled in school, pay for these classes as a second year out of college person, you know?

24:21

Yeah, and I enjoyed it, but I really wanted a classroom position.

Like with ESL, often times you're going into the classroom, pulling kids out into your own room or you're pushing in and being in with students in the classroom, but you don't have your own classroom of kids all day.

24:39

And so at the time I was like, I really don't want this, like I really want a classroom position.

Well, they're just wasn't going to be the school that I soon taught at that I was now at.

They were a school where like, teachers don't leave because it's just.

So wonderful.

Great.

24:55

Yeah.

And so it was just not going to work.

So at the time the district I worked in was opening up, they were switching their model of education to K through 4 being elementary, 5-6 being intermediate, and then the rest being high school.

25:11

So, yeah.

And so, well, sorry, 5-6 being intermittent at 7-8 being middle school, and then nine through 12 being high school.

Yeah, sorry.

And so I was like, well, I'll apply and see.

Well, so I got a job teaching 5th grade, and that was the worst part of my career.

25:31

It was fifth grade is a very challenging age, but it was more that the school was a brand new school.

They were trying to operate within a middle school.

So we were housed within a middle school, but we were one floor.

So it was like these kids were seeing middle schoolers act like middle schoolers, but they weren't allowed to be middle schoolers.

25:52

They saw to be elementary students, but they're not elementary students cuz they're an immediate students.

So they had more responsibility, but they're still like in elementary setting.

Like it was just, it was just a shit show, honestly.

And, and I, you know, I was real fortunate to work for a principal at the time that was really great.

26:10

But and I had a team that was really great, but I mean, it wrecked me.

I would call my boyfriend at the time on prep and just like cry because it was just like absolutely miserable.

And I also too was given a lot of behavior students because I'm very good with behavior students.

26:31

I'm very calm.

I'm very good at de escalating students when they're having, you know, an emotional moment or an emotional episode.

And so I was given a lot of those students and I just, I mean, I had students in my class like I was scared of.

26:46

I was going to ask you for some yeah examples.

Like I had a student flip a desk in my room, you know, punch a locker, like things where and these kids are as tall as me, you know what I mean?

So, so just a lot of a lot of like, I mean abuse you.

27:04

Know you just disrespected too.

Like I just picture them.

Yeah, yeah.

And so that was like, OK, I got to get out of here, you know, So it's like I kept what happened in my career as I kept thinking it was the school, it was the district, it was the, you know, the the job, the grade level, the team, the whatever.

27:24

Fill in the blank.

And so eventually where my career ended is I got a job doing Title 1 intervention.

So it was reading intervention.

So I would go into classrooms, pull students out and teach them reading so they were a year or more behind in reading and I would work with them.

27:43

And I really, really enjoyed that.

And that was like probably the best job I had at the best school like ever.

And I was really happy things were fine.

And title ones funded by federal monies.

So it's allocated based on free and reduced lunch.

28:01

And my school got allocated less money.

And because I was hired last, I got transferred and I got transferred to a school that was very similar to the school I worked at the very first year, which was like set back in time.

And I was like, I can't do this.

And at the time, like I had met my husband, like we were getting married, you know, like there were all these other things and it was just like, I'm, I'm done.

28:23

Like I, I'm, I'm done.

I just couldn't do it anymore.

And it was absolutely heartbreaking.

I still have so much teacher trauma that I have not worked through and know I need to, but it's like I just am not ready.

28:39

And I don't know if I'll ever be ready, honestly, just because there was so many things that I experienced that were abusive, disrespectful, administratively abusive, like things like that.

And it just it, but it's really hard when you have a dream of like how something's going to be.

28:58

Like, I wanted to be the teacher that taught my entire life, like taught 30 years, then like had students come back to them.

And I never got to do that because I moved so much, you know, in my career.

And yeah, I have a lot of guilt about that, too, about moving and leaving, quote, kids, you know, for them not to be able to come back and see me.

29:19

And but, you know, life is life happens the way it's supposed to happen.

And now, like, I can look back on that.

And I don't know, I'm very grateful for that time in my life.

But I mean, my husband asked me a lot like if you know, you got another opportunity to teach and you were making, you know, I don't know, $200,000, you know, a year or $300,000 a year, would you do it?

29:43

No, 100% no, I wouldn't go back.

And in a sense, like I'm still teaching.

I'm just doing it in a different.

Way I was thinking when you were talking about that one-on-one setting, you know, starting to kind of allude to more of what you are doing now, like enjoying that setting of really helping somebody one-on-one who needs it.

30:05

I mean, yeah, I could see how that has been a transition that worked.

Well, I was going to say that I relate a lot to this in that I, I didn't do education at all, but my career was mostly in sales, in software sales.

30:22

And it was somewhat similar in the fact that I just, I kept changing jobs because I was looking for something like I was looking for, I worked at this company called Exact Target that's now part of Salesforce, right And.

I wonder if you know my husband because he worked at Exact Target.

30:40

What's his first name?

Matthew maybe.

Maybe.

Anyway, but like it was just this magical place, this amazing experience, which kind of sounds like, you know, your student teaching was like this great experience.

And you're like, yeah, this is what I pictured when I pictured working in software sales.

30:58

We're having pizza parties, we're closing the corridor.

The leadership is wonderful.

The culture is, is incredible.

And what I didn't know at the time was like, that was not the norm, which I think relates well to what you've described in education.

And so I just kept trying to find that again.

31:14

And and then it took, for me, it was the pandemic that made me realize that, you know, I've been trying to force this for so long.

Like my parents were in software.

I just felt like that was where I was supposed to be and that's what I was supposed to do.

And then I just realized this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing.

31:31

I don't like this.

Why have I been trying for so long to force this?

And I would blame it on, OK, this isn't the right leadership team or we're not selling the right product or like whatever it is.

And then you get to this place where you're like, so now what the hell do I do?

Yeah.

So what was that like for you?

31:47

And you're like, OK, I'm leaving.

I'm done with this.

Yeah, I had a major identity crisis, like a major.

I after I left teaching, I went into the mental health world for a couple of years and I worked for a company that was a behavioral health company.

32:03

Well, is a behavioral health company.

There's still a company and they would do school based programs.

So essentially I was housed in a school, but I'd worked for this behavioral health company and I would teach life skills to students.

32:20

So anger management, friendship skills, communication skills, hygiene skills, problem solving, like anything that you know, we use as humans.

Like I would teach that to kids and I did it one-on-one.

I got to do and teach the way I wanted to.

32:37

Like it was, it was like a weight had been lifted off of me.

It was just this like beautiful moment of Oh my gosh, like this is how it's like how I wished it would have been right.

But what comes along with mental health work is obviously like mental health, you know, and I, you know, worked with a lot of kids, had a lot of challenges.

33:01

I also worked with family.

So I would teach family skills and go into families homes.

And, you know, I saw a lot of things.

I experienced a lot of things.

I experienced a lot of trauma, you know, from working with kids.

And like, I had a kid punch me, you know, one day.

What?

33:16

Yeah, he was six years old, but still like, yeah, you know, just like things like that, that, you know, and when I took the job, I had a really long conversation with my husband about, is this something I'm going to be able to do?

33:31

Like, because I know the heaviness of it.

And it was like, well, let's, let's just see, Let's see.

And if I have to quit, I have to quit.

You know what I mean?

We'll figure it out.

So through that job, though, it made me realize like, oh, wow, I can do other things with my degree because throughout my teaching career, I had applied other places like outside of teaching and had very, very like clearly been told you have no skills.

34:02

And I was like, do you know what I do all day?

How do I not have skills?

Like, do you understand?

So, but it was, you know, it was like, oh, wow, I can actually do something else.

And so then that started me down this path of like, well, what else can I do?

34:17

Do I want to go back to school?

Do I want to look into other things?

Like is there are there other things out there that maybe I don't have to go to back to school?

But it's some type of certification or, you know, whatever.

And so that's where I found coaching school and found health and life coaching, which is where my business started originally.

34:40

And that changed my life.

I mean, it changed my life in a sense of how I operated, how I thought, how I behaved.

I mean, it changed so many things and.

How'd you find it?

I mean the good old Google search, you know what I mean?

34:56

Like.

What do I do with my life?

Question mark I mean right, exactly.

But, you know, and it was, it was cheaper than or more affordable, I should say, not cheaper, more affordable than going back to school, you know, and spending 40 grand, but going back to school.

35:13

And so that's really the trajectory of like what led me to where I am today.

And I really enjoyed, you know, working mental health, but it was definitely not something I could have done long term.

Yeah.

So what?

What year was this where you found?

35:29

So I left mental health work in 2017, no 2019.

OK.

Yeah.

OK.

And then you found this like health and life coaching, went to the school.

35:45

What does that look like?

Is it all virtual?

So it's all.

Virtual, yeah.

It was an online program with a lot of like virtual meetings of like meeting in person and then doing skills labs with people.

And it was, it didn't feel virtual.

Like it felt very personal, you know what I mean?

36:02

I think it's because we were working on personal things, right?

We were using ourselves as like, you know?

As like the use case.

Yeah, yeah, You know, and so it was very personal.

I met a lot of phenomenal people through, you know, coaching school that I still am friends with today.

36:17

And they also did like a once a year live event that I, you know, went to and met other people.

And and so it didn't feel, you know, not personal.

It felt really intimate and personal and like close to you versus this is an online program, right where?

36:38

You're just taking an online course.

You never see somebody's face and you're just like cooking stuff to learn or Yeah, yeah.

How long was the program?

So I did my, you know what you would call like your undergrad, So my just regular coaching certification and that was about a year, maybe year and a half.

36:57

And then I did my mastery coaching certification and that was about the same amount of time.

So I think I was in coaching school for a total of maybe three years total.

Wow.

Yeah.

And that also ends up, like, leading into the pandemic then, too, which actually ended up probably being nice because you were already used to not nice, You know what I mean?

37:17

But like in a virtual program, you were already set up to continue.

That, yes, yeah, yeah.

And I, before the pandemic was working with clients virtually anyway, because that's how we were taught to work with clients.

That's good because of having the possibility of working with clients all over the world, right.

37:33

And so because they were a program that kind of capitalized on working with clients all over the world, literally really, it was like, well, why don't we teach our coaches to be able to do the same thing?

So the pandemic for me was not a very like scary transition because I was already doing that for my work.

37:54

But it and it felt, it felt easy and intimate.

Like, I think I'm probably one of the best people when it comes to creating, like that intimate trust and commutative space in a coaching call because I've done it so long.

38:11

But I was trained that way, Yeah.

You know.

Yeah, wow, three years and just to kind of have running in the parallel here still like when?

So I started running after college and I started running because I literally was like, I don't know what to do with.

38:31

Myself, I can't swim competitive.

People get off work and they have all this time.

What do I do?

Like I literally just was so lost.

And so I started running, and quickly running became this time to really like, berate myself and tear myself apart.

38:48

For I didn't.

Expect you to say that.

Yeah, for my life not being what I wanted it to be because my career wasn't what I wanted to be to be.

And I blamed myself, you know what I mean?

And so it just became this time of like, how do I figure this out?

What can I do?

39:04

How can I change this?

Why is this not working?

Like it just became this like anxiety ridden space.

And I didn't realize after college, I mean, for a while that I really struggle with anxiety because I was swimming so much and it was really helping support that anxiety.

39:24

And then when I wasn't doing it, it was like, this is how my brain what the hell is going on?

You know, So that's quickly we're running became like this like go to thing for me, which we all know what happens when that happens.

39:40

I mean, you get injured and you know, like you overtrain and you know, then your heart broken and it's just this like ugly cycle of let me try to do all the things, let me fix it.

Let me oh, I'm fine for a little bit now I'm injured again and it just became that really big cycle for.

39:58

Me.

So after college, you were still in Central IN were you in Indianapolis?

So I was in Greenwood at the.

Time in Greenwood and when you started running and kind of just using it as that space like so did you think about it in a way that was like using that competitiveness that you had in college?

40:16

Did you like go?

Did you start racing at that time like?

Yeah, I did.

And that was like.

Why you got?

Like my prime.

Well, probably yes.

I mean like I was overtraining and then probably over racing as well, you know what I mean?

So yeah, I mean I was, I thought at the time like that's what I had to do.

40:34

Like I competed in college.

I need to compete as an adult.

And I was pretty good, you know, And so it was like, well, this is kind of fun.

Like, you know, can I get faster?

Can I, you know, and I was trained, I, I have never trained under somebody of always trained myself.

40:51

So that was kind of fun too to see like, oh wow, my instincts from being an endurance athlete my whole life are right.

Like I'm getting better, I'm getting faster, like all this stuff.

But there were pieces that I was missing, like the strength training piece, like the recovery piece, the nutrition piece, like all these things that I didn't know at the time I was missing and that just led to injury.

41:15

Yeah.

So what race, what kind of races did you do?

During that I was running marathons and half marathons mostly.

So I ran my first marathon in Napa Valley.

Cool.

Yeah, that was my cuz I cuz at the time.

41:31

That was your.

First.

Well, the time it was like, I'm never gonna run another one of these, so I'm.

Not doing the coolest.

Yes, I'm gonna do it the best, the coolest place and just.

That's gonna be it.

Yeah.

But of course, you know where that leads, you know?

So that's a.

Hilly course.

It is, and it's downhills.

41:46

So you go from Calistoga all the way into Napa Valley.

And so it just, yeah, so.

You get on a bus and they take you all the way to Calistoga and then you.

Come.

Yeah.

So it's definitely like.

Were you old enough?

What so wait after college?

42:02

So you had to have been 21.

Yeah, so I was, that was in 2013, so I don't know.

I'd have to do the math of how old I was.

You know, that was too long ago.

So, yeah.

So I was running marathons.

I was doing half marathons.

42:19

I was running 5 KS, you know, here and there.

But really I was shooting for like those big marathons.

I really wanted to run like all the majors.

Like I was all into all of that.

Like that was and that was the game plan.

Yeah.

And So what injuries did you deal with?

42:35

So I really dealt with one major injury, which is really shaped and me as an athlete, but also shape my work that I do with clients.

So I had a hip injury and I dealt with it on and off for eight years, a long time.

42:52

And it was the cycle of like, you know, I take some time off, I'd start running, it'd be fine.

And then I'd ramp things up, I'd overtrain and all.

Now I'm injured again, you know, like I got into Chicago and I don't know what year 2014 and I had to defer because, you know, my, my hip was just like not able to do it.

43:13

And so it wasn't until gosh, it's 2024.

So it wasn't until 2021 probably that I was really blessed to have the universal line, me meeting a physiotherapist that I met actually as like AB to B connection and we were going to be referral partners.

43:41

And when I was talking to him, one of the questions I asked was, OK, what is the difference between like physical therapy and physiotherapy?

Like that's a guy.

I have no idea, right?

So physical therapy is really based more in like the medical side of things, like it's, it's usually insurance based.

43:58

It's usually we see the client until the the symptom goes away and then you're out the door.

And physiotherapy is really based in the movement of the body.

So it's based in, we get to see you as long as you need to be seen to improve your movement and decrease this pain and injury.

44:20

Because the likelihood that this pain and injury is actually coming from where it is showing up is, is pretty high that it's not.

So it's, it's more of like an in depth experience and it's as long as you want.

Like I still see a physio, still see him for maintenance.

44:38

So, and usually physiotherapists are cash based.

So that's different.

It's not insurance based.

It doesn't have to be.

Well, we only can see you for eight sessions, 8 visits and then you know, we're done.

We have to get another approval from your insurance.

So it's a lot different.

44:54

It's because I had been seeing a sports PT prior to meeting him.

And so when I asked him that, he said, well, what do you have going on?

Like, why are you seeing the sports PT?

And so I told him, he asked me a couple questions, and he looked me dead in the face.

45:09

And like this, I have to give it to him, like, give all the credit to him.

And he looked me in the face.

And he goes, because at that time, I've been told I needed surgery.

Yeah.

And I was like having anxiety attacks about it.

45:24

Like I was, it was awful.

I was so terrified of it, but I didn't know what else to do.

Yeah, you're like, I want this.

To be fixed and but he looked me down in the face and he said, I don't think you need surgery.

And at that point I was like, well sold, sold like I like sign me up because I will do anything right now to not have surgery.

45:44

And so I started working with him and within three weeks the pain that I've been having for eight years was like almost diminished.

It was insane.

OK, so is he in Brown County?

No, he is in Brownsburg.

Well, no, I'm sorry.

45:59

Plainfield.

Yes, and I will shout him out.

It's NRG physiotherapy, Dr. Chad and Allen.

OK.

So for anybody who's local to Central.

Indiana, go see him.

I cannot recommend him more.

He is phenomenal and he does a lot of virtual work with clients too.

46:14

So, like, if you see him for a session, a lot of his work now is like, videotape your movement, send it to me, let me look at it, you know, mark it up, talk to you over the video, send it back to you, give you some exercises to practice.

46:30

I only go in to see him now if I need dry needling or if I've done what he said and I've done it for three weeks or so and it's still not quite getting better.

Then I go in to see him for some manual, like, you know, treatment.

But he's amazing.

Are there movements that you do every day?

46:48

I'm so bad at that.

I guess it's like I had to so that I wouldn't be in pain.

Yeah, yeah.

And the pain kind of pain I was in was like, I couldn't rake leaves.

Like I hurt to mow the grass.

Like it hurt to get up off the couch.

I couldn't bend over and pick something up.

47:06

Like it was severe.

And so for me, it's like this.

I mean, what I was taught by him changed my entire life.

It gave me my running back, it gave me my movement back.

And it's stuff I will never not do.

And it's stuff that I teach every single client I work with to do because I don't ever want somebody to think like, well, I just have to live in pain.

47:29

Yeah, yeah.

Gosh, yeah.

That's amazing.

Hey.

Quick reminder, this podcast is brought to you by Athlete Who Pays.

Is it Athlete Who pays.com to celebrate the finish lines and milestones of the people?

You love and use code.

47:44

Podcast for 10% off your order.

So you got your running back and I know you're not currently running and racing.

So talk about, I guess how that, you know again your college athlete.

Then you find running and then it like, you know, then you hurt yourself and for eight years you're hurting.

48:04

So like, where are you at now with that?

So I met him in 2021.

I obviously he was able to heal myself, heal my body, didn't need surgery, found out it was all like a mobility problem, which is a lot of everybody's problem.

48:21

And so I started running again.

I, my plan was to start racing again and I started my business, you know, all within this time.

And it was like, I got married, you know, like, there's just a lot of life stuff, you know, going on.

48:38

And so I was running and I was going to, you know, I ran some races here and there.

I ran monumental, like in 2017, you know, did some, you know, like fun races, Turkey Trot thing like that, you know, things like that.

But in 2022, I was four days out from hosting my women's running retreat that at the time I had hosted annually.

49:00

And I lost my dog unexpectedly 4 days prior to that.

And thank you.

And she had been with me since I was 25.

She'd been with me through all of my career changes, like me getting married, me leaving, you know, my first home, like all of that.

49:19

And at the time, I stupidly made the decision to continue with the retreat.

And like, looking back, I really wish I I didn't went through with the retreat was able to show up and show up powerfully for these women, but I was dying inside, you know, I remember calling my husband like at night and just like sobbing to him and being like, I don't know how I can do this.

49:46

Did you even tell them what had happened?

Yeah, I did tell them and I asked for their support, you know, and whatever.

But it's still, you know, just not yeah.

This What was your dog's name?

Maddie.

Yeah.

And so since then, something to come out of that was this like big trauma response to running.

50:09

I don't know if it's tied to that.

I used to run with her like not regularly, but like often we would trail run together.

My running retreat is a trail running retreat.

So I don't know if like, I don't know, but there's some trauma response to running now.

50:27

And so for a long time I thought it was just that I was in so much pain that I didn't, I didn't want to run because it's painful, right?

Like it was challenging and I just didn't want to be challenged because I was grieving.

But now it's like it's still really hard for me to run.

50:43

I'm running like twice a week and you know, running maybe 2-3 miles, like nothing crazy.

You know, I'm not competing and I'm just kind of like writing it out.

And it's something that I just recently decided like OK, because also I haven't done a retreat since then either because I can't, I just like physically, emotionally cannot do it.

51:08

So it's something recently that I was just like, I think you need to go back to therapy for all of this because I don't want to not have another retreat and I don't want to not run right?

Like I miss these things that I used to love.

And obviously I'm having some type of response to them and it's impacting my work, it's impacting my life.

51:27

So that's kind of where I'm at with running it just and I think that's like that story is a really good representation of every runner's journey like that.

Sometimes your journey with running is like I'm using it as a way to get through my anxiety, as a way to get through a hard time.

51:44

And then sometimes it's like I can't do it because I'm so broken that I can't do this thing that reminds me of, you know what I'm broken because of, you know, or so I think it's, it's just the journey of like the relationship with running, but I've had a lot of like guilt and shame from it because obviously, like I'm a sports performance coach, I'm a running coach.

52:11

I feel like I'm a little bit of like a farce, you know what I mean?

Like I feel like I'm a little bit of a not really like the real deal because I'm not running, I'm not racing, you know, I'm not training for running, like I'm just training for life.

But it's what I see with clients all the time.

52:29

Like I don't know why I give myself such a hard time because I see clients go through it and go through cycles.

And but it's, it's definitely been a very interesting, weird, heartbreaking time, like with my relationship with running recently.

52:48

And you don't have human children, correct?

Correct.

Yeah.

I mean, God, I dread the day, man.

I have a 10 year old Goldendoodle and he's starting to get those, like, cloudy eyes.

And the kids love him.

I do.

I run with him.

And God, how many people in your life are like, why don't you just get a puppy?

53:08

Right, right.

And we did.

I mean, we did eventually get, you know, a puppy and get, you know, another dog.

But even with that, like, I for the longest time had guilt about that.

You know, you're like replacing her and it's like, well, obviously there's nothing that's going to replace.

53:24

Her right, right.

Yeah, So, so hard.

So that's kind of where I'm at with my running right now.

Like I did just recently put in for Chicago for 2025.

Like I'm rolling my eyes everybody, because I'm just like, you know, but I kind of feel like, you know, what the universal do universe thing, Like if I'm supposed to get in, I'll get in, and if I'm not, I won't.

53:45

And so I'll just let it let it happen, you know, let it be, Yeah.

That's yeah.

Gosh, I'm sorry that that you've gone through that and that that's.

Thank you.

Yeah, altered your your running journey.

I remember.

Yeah, I met you.

When's the 1st we met at the Carmel Marathon.

54:01

Expo first.

I think the person and.

Then I saw you at Indiana Women's Running Festival Expo.

And yeah, I could just assume, oh, like, obviously she's here.

She like she's a runner, she runs, you know, but I, I find it really interesting and in a weird way, like so inspiring because yeah, everybody's journey is different.

54:21

And there are times where frankly, like runnings, not it, you know, and I think in a world that I'm in where like running, I mean, I'm always talking to runners, running is everything.

And it's like, well, it's not you're injured and that's, you know, you can't run or like you're going through something and it's just not something you can do.

54:38

And, you know, I feel for you for sure.

And I think that that's also really something so beneficial to have based on what you're doing too, because undoubtedly your clients are going to go through times like that.

Right, right.

54:53

And do so, so we started your business in 19.

So I opened my business in 2018, but I went full time like in 2019.

OK, Yeah.

And it's transcend health and Wellness.

Right.

55:08

So actually I did a rebrand about, I don't know, maybe eight months ago, six months ago.

I'm I'm not sure the time frame, but so when I started my business, like I said, it was very focused on health and Wellness.

Like it was health and life coaching.

I thought that was all it was going to be.

55:24

I didn't have any idea that I was going to, you know, want to add in my endurance athlete background and become a running coach and then become a kettlebell coach and then become a personal trainer.

Like I had no idea that was a.

Kettlebell coach, That's what you said.

Yeah, I've never heard of that.

Oh, it's so fun.

55:40

Kettlebell training is so fun.

It's definitely a nice, like sometimes I think we get monotonous, you know, like with like, OK, I'm going to, you know, lift and I'm going to run and then I'm going to cycle and I'm going to lift to run a cycle or whatever, or lift, run, swim, whatever it is.

Kettlebell work is a lot of brain work because it's a lot of pattern work and a lot of combination work as far as movements go.

56:05

So it's a lot of like body and brain work.

Yeah, it's fun.

It's really fun.

Yeah, I do have kettle bells.

Yeah, because my husband, my my father-in-law is like a former power lifter.

OK.

So yeah, he and he loves the kettle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's interesting.

56:21

Yeah, but I had no idea all that was coming.

So when I start my business, obviously that was an appropriate name.

But as I've evolved, so has like what I've offered, so has the kind of person I work with.

Now I'm primarily working with endurance athletes, which I have been for a while, but I just hadn't changed my name.

56:41

So Transcend Training and Performance is now my business name.

And so do you have a new website to go along with that?

Well, so.

Will you?

I know like I was like.

The thing websites are so fun.

They are so fun.

They're really so fun.

And they're so fun as far as like as you evolve, they don't evolve quickly with you, right?

56:59

Yeah.

So it's kind of in transition right now.

I'm very lucky that my husband is the one who wrote and created my website.

And that's nice.

Yes, it is very wonderful.

But it's also, you know, he has a full time job.

So, honey.

Yeah.

So it's kind of like you know it, it will be done, you know, probably, I would say hopefully by the end of the year.

57:20

OK, so.

Yeah, and so people can find you on Instagram at train dot with dot transcend.

Yeah, and your website is still.

Transcend Health and.

All this stuff, but it will eventually change.

So my website will eventually become train with transcend.

57:37

OK.

So and right now like I have the domain of both.

So basically you could type that in or you could type transient health, Wellness.

And you'll get there.

Yeah, you would get there.

Yeah.

Cool.

So I also noticed that you do a lot of mental coaching, overcoming perfectionism.

57:55

Yeah.

Like that kind of stuff.

Yes.

Gosh, that's got to be just invaluable for endurance athletes.

Can you talk a little bit about how you kind of wrapped that into what you're?

Doing yeah.

So that is really that like life coaching piece that I like moved into really mental mindset work.

58:11

And So what I noticed very early on with clients when I, you know, started working with runners specifically and then kind of it evolved to endurance athletes just like the broader range was that 90% of every call was about what was going on upstairs.

58:27

It was not about training, you know what I mean?

Like and so 100.

Percent know what you.

Mean so it was just like, OK, I've got to do something about this and so that's where you know working on things like self belief, overcoming perfectionism, you know race day mindset, you know just what is mindset in general and why is it important?

58:49

Just all of these different things that we go through as athletes.

I'm doing a workshop in December about athlete identity and basically how we are so tied to it and how when that identity loss happens, like, what do we do?

59:05

And so like, that's a big part.

I mean, I have worked with clients who are in their 60s and they're still mourning the loss of this like athlete that they were in college, you know, So it's a lot of a lot of just mental mindset work that then prepares them for their race, prepares them for practice, you know, when they're, you know, doing their workouts throughout the week.

59:29

And I pair that with my like endurance training.

So, you know, you, if you work with me, you receive a customized plan that's updated every two weeks, but you also receive the mental mindset coaching.

And the great thing is, is that I've been trained to do that.

59:47

So I, you know, went to school to do that.

And all I've done is taken my athletic endurance brain and my mindset coaching life coaching background and just like melded the two.

And so it's, you know, I've taken these patterns I've seen over time with clients and patterns I've seen in myself and just spend like, OK, how can I apply these skills that I learned, you know, into this mindset?

1:00:12

Because really mindset is mindset.

Doesn't matter if it's athlete mindset or.

Mom mindset or human mindset, right?

Whatever.

But there's certain patterns that show up in human life.

There's certain patterns that show up in athletic life.

And you know, that's what I I excel probably the best at.

1:00:30

Yeah, yeah, I keep saying that running is like, and I think the percentage increases every time I say like 95 percent, 99% mental.

Like, I don't know.

I think it's, you know, especially if you've done the normal training.

I mean, it's just such a mental sport.

1:00:46

Yes, Yeah.

You're alone with your thoughts for four hours or whatever it is, and those thoughts turn against you.

And I, you know, I struggled a lot with performance anxiety growing up a swimmer and really didn't understand that.

1:01:04

Like, I knew I got nervous before meets, but like, I never understood that.

But now it's like, God, if I could have just known a percent of what I know now about how to support performance anxiety, like I would have been such a better swimmer.

I've been such a better athlete.

1:01:19

Like I would have been so much like, Oh my gosh, you know, So that's really the gift, you know, that I think is given with mental mindset coaching is like, you get to become a better athlete, you get to become a better human, you know, for yourself, which means then you're better for everybody else too, right?

1:01:36

So.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

That's really cool.

Thanks.

So you're doing a workshop, so how often do you do stuff like that?

Like a workshop?

So recently I've done like two or three a month because I yeah, because I've been hired by like a coach and then a therapy office to do workshops for them, for their like team and then for their clients.

1:02:01

But Ioffer them independently as well.

And I've done that in the past.

I've worked with another coach and who is a running coach but didn't offer mental mindset coaching and offered them.

So it really just depends.

Usually if I do them independently, maybe it's, you know, once every other month or once every couple months.

1:02:21

But if I'm doing it as consulting work, then I do it much more often.

Yeah, OK, very cool.

Well, I need to tell my coach that she should have you and we.

Should Yeah, a big event.

That'd be so.

Funny for sure, yeah.

OK, so when did you receive the news that you were going to be inducted into the NCAA Hall of Fame?

1:02:39

Yeah.

So, so it's actually like, OK, so it's University of Indianapolis is Hall of Fame, but because they're an NCAA school, it's that's why there's both.

Does that make sense?

So like, I don't know if you want to say NCAA Hall of Fame or if you want to say University of Indianapolis Hall of Fame or if you want to say both.

1:03:00

I don't.

Say both.

I can't put in the asterisk on it a Hall of Fame.

Most people are not even in a Hall of Fame anywhere.

So you just accept?

It.

Yeah.

OK, well, so that was, gosh, maybe the beginning of last year, and I get this e-mail in my inbox and I literally read this e-mail and I I'm like, what?

1:03:25

There's no way.

I'm like, how?

Huh, Like it literally didn't, it did not click when I swam for UND the women's team, they were very, very, we were very, very good.

And so like we won a conference, we placed at nationals like we were very good.

1:03:42

And so that was the the year that we did that was the team that was being inducted.

And so it it took me a long time to register that that was like that I had been on that team.

Does that make sense?

Like, it was like, why?

Yeah.

But it really was a big mind fuck because, like, that was my freshman year.

1:04:04

And at conference, I had strep throat.

I still competed, I still swam, but I was sick.

So it's not like in my mind I didn't really.

Contribute.

Yeah.

And so I was like.

Tell yourself.

That how am I?

1:04:19

How what like do I deserve this?

Like I, I don't know, like this, I didn't go to nationals that year.

Like I didn't go to nationals ever.

But like, you know, do I do I deserve this?

Like, is this a mistake?

You know?

So it took me a long time.

1:04:35

And then it was like, after reaching out to, you know, some of my friends, it was like, OK, no, like this is real.

This is happening.

But it took me a long time to really like, get in my own head and really rework those thoughts of you didn't contribute, you weren't enough, like, you were sick, you didn't go to nationals, You shouldn't be on this, you know, recognition of the team, like, blah, blah, blah.

1:05:00

And so I had to use a lot of the tools I use with clients to turn that judgement into like, curiosity of like, I wonder why you're thinking these things?

Like, why are these coming up for you?

What is causing these?

You know, can you reframe them in your mind?

1:05:15

So things that I do with clients, I really had to like work with myself on.

And by the time so that we received that e-mail, like at the beginning of the year, induction was like in February, like middle end of February.

And by the time that came, I had gotten to a point where I felt really proud and celebratory and really like, I don't know, like validated my entire existence as a swimmer in a sense, which sounds so like silly, but it it did.

1:05:45

And it invalidated to kind of my existence as a coach in my mind.

Like it was like, oh, wow.

Like this caught this created who I am today, you know, And so it was really fun.

It was so fun to get together with like my teammates I hadn't seen in, you know, 20 years, 15 years, or, you know what I mean?

1:06:06

And it was just like we were just like we were when we were in college, and it was so great.

What was that like?

What was the like event like?

Did they?

Where did they have?

That so they had two.

It was like 2 days.

The first day was or maybe it was all within one day, but we were recognized at the basketball game.

1:06:26

So we were called onto the court.

They said our names.

We got to like wave, you know?

Whatever.

At UND Yep.

And then after.

So it was the same day.

After that there was like a banquet where we, you know, had to have not had to got to have dinner and they, you know, had different people talk and then we were all called up on the stage and given our award and then pictures and all of that.

1:06:50

So.

What's the award?

What?

Was so it's a plaque that says like, you know, University of Indianapolis Hall of Fame and then it has everybody's name on it from the team, from the women's team.

And what I thought was so cool about it is like, it has our maiden name and then in parentheses it has like, our married name.

1:07:08

That's cool.

Which is pretty, you know, fun.

I think so.

Yeah, and how many women on that team?

I knew you were gonna ask me that.

Just roughly.

I don't know.

I would say roughly 25.

OK, Yeah.

Yeah, I'm trying to picture, I guess I don't really know, like how many people are on a basketball team.

1:07:27

Like, obviously I know how many people are on the court, but like, how many people do you have?

Right.

Yeah, yeah, but I'd say roughly 25.

And then who was there in person was probably, I mean, eighteen of us like a pretty good amount.

Yeah, so wow.

1:07:42

Yeah.

And did you, was it like, did you get all fancy?

I mean, yeah, I wore like, you know, black pants and like I wore, I went with like the color scheme of UNDI wore like a red blouse at the box sweater.

And and so my best friend, she swam with me in college, but she is two or three years younger than me.

1:08:01

I never can remember.

And I, she was like, can I come?

Can I come to the basketball game and like, see you guys and see everybody?

And I was like, of course.

So she was there.

And that was really fun, you know, because a lot of my swimming memories are with her, even though she wasn't.

1:08:19

That's right, because she was younger.

She wasn't there that year.

Yeah, that's a great friend.

That's cool.

Yeah.

Yeah, what a special experience.

And like, kudos to you for figuring out how to accept that.

Yeah.

And like, yeah, really, I bet you there's just got to be so many situations like that.

1:08:37

Like I know personally, I'm trying to like think of examples, but like there, I mean, I guess there's one like coming up, this will be this will come out after this has happened.

So I will have survived hopefully.

But you know.

Survived, I promise.

But, you know, moderating the elite athlete panel for Indianapolis Monumental Marathon, Sarah Hall is going to be.

1:08:57

And I'm just like, why am I doing this?

Like they could have because you're any, you know, number of people and you're like, questioning whether or not it's something that you deserve or whatever.

Yeah.

It's just everybody has these.

Yeah.

But what I want to invite listeners to do is like, really relish in it, like really celebrate yourself and really think about every moment that you've worked for that's LED up to that.

1:09:23

Because it's not just that moment.

Like it's everything that you put in place to get there.

Like it was every practice.

It was every, you know, me, it was every practice from the time I was six, you know, it was and sort of think about it in like the broader scheme, think of it in a zoom out perspective versus like, oh, it's just this one event and why am I doing this one event?

1:09:46

Yeah.

It's hard.

I know it's hard.

Yeah, it's hard.

It is.

But I will.

I will.

Yeah, you will.

And somebody, I forget who it was, but it was like turning anxiety into excitement.

Oh yeah, because they're the same.

1:10:02

They're the same thing.

Yeah.

So they're the same framing the way you look at it, correct.

Like, I'm not nervous, I'm excited.

Yes, they're the same feeling, yeah.

So I use that a little bit in my head like, OK, you're not anxious.

You're you're so excited, like what an amazing opportunity, right?

And that already is just, you know, helps reframe it.

1:10:19

Yes, it does.

And that's a really good one too, especially for like race day is like, oh, I'm, you know, I'm excited because it's the same feeling.

It's just the mindset of it, right?

Which is It seems so simple.

It does, and a lot of it, I bet is pretty darn simple.

1:10:35

It's just not.

It's just.

It comes naturally, correct?

It's the.

Intention and the practice.

I always say mindset is a power practice.

Yeah.

It's just like you would practice running.

You have to practice mindset.

Yeah.

And I feel like selfishly, you know, one of the reasons I ask everybody on this podcast about their race day mantra, their running mantra, is because, like, I steal all of them.

1:10:56

Yeah.

And use them because it's just words matter so much in the way you talk to yourself.

Yeah, Obviously matters so much.

Yeah.

And if I pay attention to that, I realize how negative myself talk is.

And I'm like, hey, wait a second, right?

1:11:13

So right.

I think people don't realize how much they could actually control that or like.

Practice, yeah.

And a lot of us don't realize to like we're so precondition, like pre exposed precondition to to operate that way.

Yeah, right.

1:11:28

And so one thing in like every workshop that I lead, I always start with like, what is this really like why?

Like I'm doing one tonight called own your greatness.

And the first thing to talk about is like, what happened?

What happened to our greatness?

1:11:44

Like we're all born with greatness, but somewhere along the line we lost it.

Why where does that come from?

You know?

And so I go into like the why because sometimes it's like we don't, we have to understand the why before we can do the what.

Yeah, Well, it just makes me think about my kids because somewhere like the innocence of kids who have this confidence that's just there, right?

1:12:07

Like at some point that that's lost somehow, right?

And as a parent, you're kind of like, I want to make sure that I protect you from losing that, but I also know that I can't.

Yeah.

Because sadly, the world just.

Yeah.

Is the world, right?

And some of that goes away, but I think having the resources like you and your business and like just being more intentional about going and finding that and working through it, yeah, I think that'll make people better athletes, better human beings.

1:12:35

Your point, like what you said earlier.

So, yeah, all good, really good stuff.

So I hate to do this, but now that I've mentioned the end of the podcast question.

Yeah, I know, right?

We'll just roll right into this.

So now, well, I feel like you're going to have some really good tips here and just in general about mantra.

1:12:56

Not that you have to give too much away because I'm sure you have so much more obviously, but what is your favorite running mantra and or song?

So I use the mantra a lot, believe in the run because I feel like as we go throughout a race or a run, even like a workout, our belief starts off really high.

1:13:23

But then we start talking to ourselves, things start happening.

We start paying attention to how our body feels like all this stuff, right?

And that belief really depletes.

And so just believing in what you're doing, believing in the run, showing up for yourself, like, and a big part of that, that I work a lot on myself with clients, but like that listeners can take away is instead of making an expectation for yourself, when you have a run, like, OK, I'm going to PR have APR run, make an agreement with yourself.

1:14:00

So agree of with yourself of how you're going to show up.

Agree that you're going to be on point with your hydration and your fuel.

Agree that you're going to do the best you can at that point in time at that day.

And then when you finish, it's not about the outcome.

1:14:15

It's about did I do these agreements?

Did I keep these promises to myself?

So really to me, believe in the run.

Like kind of speaks to that because it's about believing in how you want to be in that moment, how you want to show up for yourself versus like, well, it's all about the outcome.

1:14:34

Like it's all about the the number on the number.

Yeah.

That's such a that's a great way to think about it.

I mean at the end of the day nobody really cares about with the number on the clock and I I just want to do my best.

Right, right.

But I guess the way that you measure that is, is by the time.

1:14:51

But like you're saying, reframe that.

Yeah.

And if you do all the things and keep all the promises like that's, that's what you could have done.

You should be proud no matter what.

Yeah.

It does take that pressure.

Off, Right.

Yeah.

And I've had clients tell me that, like, when they learn that, they're like, oh, it's like it takes the pressure off.

1:15:08

I'm like, yeah, yeah, you know.

Who cares about the freaking time?

Just.

Do your best, you know, and, and we all know as runners, some days are like it and other days are not, you know, praying.

Praying.

Yeah, but we have a lot of control over that with how we view how we're being, right?

1:15:26

Like, you know, if we're going to show up and just like wing it and not think about how we're going to be in a race, like it's really not setting yourself up for success, right?

So kind of just only thinking about the outcome and not thinking about the journey to the outcome really doesn't doesn't give you anything to stand on in the race, right, or the workout or whatever.

1:15:50

Like you've got to think about how you're going to show up.

You've got to think about what can I promise myself that I'm going to do?

What have I worked on that I know I'm good at?

Yeah.

And what am I going to tell myself correct when it really freaking hurts?

Right.

Yeah, right.

Which I like to, I like.

1:16:06

There's a few things that I do and it's like this is what this is.

The entire reason that you've put all this work in this training is to be able to feel like this and just keep going.

Yeah, yeah.

Like that's the whole point.

And I like to think about it.

Whoever said the pain cave?

1:16:22

Yeah, yeah.

It's like, figure out how to live in the pain cave and like just be there and know that that's OK.

And that's where you're supposed to be, right?

Like you're going to run a marathon.

It's going to Frick it hurt.

Right, right, right.

So.

Those are the things that I try to think about during those times, knowing they're going to come like, you know, so how are you going to?

1:16:39

Right, and not being so like terrified of those, right?

Being able to be like, OK, I'm not going to disassociate.

Like I'm just going to be here.

I'm going to let myself feel it and know that it's just feelings.

It's just thoughts.

Like it's not the truth.

The truth is, I'm going to finish this race right.

1:16:57

Yeah, Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And do you listen to music?

Like, do you?

Well, I mean it.

Yeah.

Do you listen to you've heard of music?

Yeah.

Yeah, when I run, I do.

I love Can't Hold Us by Macklemore.

Like I love anything Macklemore and then anything loud luxury too.

1:17:15

Like I'm kind of.

AI don't know loud luxury.

If you like kind of dance pop, yeah.

Like you would love them.

OK, Yeah.

All right, I'll have to.

I'll have to.

Listen to that, I was.

Trying to think of my favorite Mac.

What's the Mac Glorious Mac that is like?

1:17:33

I love that.

That's a great one too.

Love that one for running just because it's just such a celebration.

Yeah, OK.

And then next finish line or milestone.

Yeah.

Well, so I put in for Chicago for 2025.

We shall see.

Other than that, I mean, I'd really just like to maybe do a 5K, you know what I mean?

1:17:54

Like maybe just do a 5K and not just yeah, I always say that to people.

Yeah, like not just.

Yes, let me.

Correct that to do a 5K but yeah.

And, and enjoy it, you know, and have fun.

Like that would be my my kind of goal for myself.

1:18:11

Yeah.

And then when you had your retreats, what time of year would that usually be?

So it's usually in the fall and I, I will have another retreat, it's just a matter of when.

And I, so my retreats in the past have been multiple days.

1:18:26

They've been overnight stays.

They've been a big investment for myself and for individuals, correct, Right.

I am kind of rethinking that to being more of like maybe multiple day, but not overnight stay where it's come for the day, go home, you know, and or stay in Brown County, you know, and then but on your own, you know what I mean?

1:18:50

So we'll see.

We'll see what is, you know, what transpires to you know, but I I will have another retreat.

I It's just a matter of time of when that you know, will be.

Thanks for coming up here and doing this, yeah.

For sure it's.

Been so nice to get to know you better.

1:19:06

Yeah, same.

And thanks to everybody who has listened.

Yes, happy running.

Yay, yay.

Hey, if you're enjoying this Sandy Boy Productions podcast, please go share, subscribe, rate, review.

We'd appreciate it so much.

1:19:22

Thanks.