Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 88

January 3, 2025

Here's a link to listen to this week's episode.

Show Notes:

Mike Cole⁠ has been in the pizza business for 30+ years, so when he was going to go after a world record, running a sub-marathon with a 14" pizza made sense.

During this episode we talk about:

What a great day the 2024 ⁠Monumental Marathon⁠ was
Deciding to challenge himself at age 49 and run 12 marathons in 12 months
His Guinness Book of World Record for fastest marathon while holding a 14” pizza set this year at the ⁠Mill Race Marathon ⁠
How he’s been in the pizza business for over 30 years with ⁠Greek’s Pizza ⁠
The twelve marathons he ran in 2024

January - Sarasota, FL
February - St. Petersburg, FL
March - Chattanooga, TN
April - Carmel, IN
May - Cleveland, OH
June - Leadville, CO Marathon
July - San Francisco, CA
August - Leadville 100 Miler
September - Columbus, IN
October - Columbus, OH
November - Indianapolis, IN

December - Rocket City, AL

Running the Leadville 100 Miler while in the midst of doing his 12 marathons (⁠YouTube Video⁠)
How he got beat by a guy wearing jeans and cowboy boots during his first 5K road race
How the worst thing in his life gave him the best things in his life
The formation of ⁠Indiana Elite ⁠
His three boys - Logan, Skyler and Aiden
The fact that he can pick the sound of a cello out in a song
Setting up their life to be in Colorado in the summers and Florida in the winters
When he was hit by a car in his neighborhood while running
A horrible accident that killed his uncle when Mike was in high school that he attributes to making him a better runner
How his whole family is vegan and he’s “almost Vegan”
The fact that him and his wife, Julie, founded the ⁠Zionsville Half Marathon ⁠and how we both can’t believe there isn’t a Zionsville Running Club

This is a ⁠⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠⁠ podcast.

Episode Transcript

0:00

This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast that celebrates the everyday runner.

I'm your host, Ali Brett Knocker.

Whether you're a season marathoner, half marathoner, ultra marathoner, prefer shorter distances or just getting started, if you run, you are a runner and every runner.

0:22

Has a story?

Join me each week as I share these stories and we cross finish lines and celebrate milestones together.

This episode is brought to you by Fringe Heels.

If you've been on social media, you've probably seen videos and pictures of people wearing these masks with red light or devices with red light, and they're using it to benefit health in some way.

0:50

And if you're like me, you're like, what the heck is that?

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1:17

That's a lot of benefits, so go read about the science if you're more curious.

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So you can use the wraps on parts of your body to help with recovery.

1:33

You can also use it on your face with the face mask to get rid of wrinkles, help with acne, which I'm personally looking forward to.

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1:48

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2:03

To try go ahead and use that code and get your mask when I will be getting mine in early February and we can give it a try together.

Thank you friend for supporting this podcast.

Hello and welcome.

This is Ali and.

I can't believe this is the final episode of 2024.

2:21

I said last week that I was going to reflect a little bit more this week and as I look back over the year, it feels like a blur.

But some of the highlights, and I know I'll probably forget some 'cause I'm just doing this.

I didn't make a list, but my marathon PR was a huge highlight.

2:38

At the Indianapolis Monumental Marathon in November.

I ran a sub 345.

So I ran a three 4431 with my friend Ashley Haynes, who is on the board of directors for the Monumental Marathon with me and that's how we met and she paced me.

2:53

So thank you, Ashley, for helping me crush it.

I can't believe it still kind of that that happened.

So that was a huge milestone for me this year.

Another one would be joining the Sandy Boy Podcast Network, which is run by Lindsay Hein.

If you haven't listened to her, I'll have another podcast.

3:10

It's amazing.

There are also a couple other shows you should check out.

Just go to sandyboyproductions.com.

But thanks so much to Lindsay for bringing me into the fold.

It is really exciting to be a part of her network and just have a chance to work with her.

I've been a huge fan of hers forever and we've been friends now for a while as she used to live in Indianapolis.

3:31

So I am so honored.

And then I also did my first Ragnar race in Michigan, the road race, and it was in September and that was a blast.

It's 12 women in our case, for a team, and you had six in each van.

And I have my friend Callie coming on.

3:49

I've recorded her interview.

So that'll go live early next year.

So you'll get a chance to hear a little bit more about that adventure, but just a ton of amazing races.

You heard last week that I pushed for Ainsley's Angels at the mini marathon this year in Indianapolis.

4:05

That was a highlight, having the experience to give someone else the experience of crossing a finish line.

And now I'm going to do that year after year.

So I also had one of my first trail runs that was just recent last last Friday may have heard me talk about Ashley Haines who again I ran with at Monumental.

4:24

And my friend Stephanie Woods who was a couple episodes ago took me out to a place called Eagle Creek and it was so beautiful.

It snowed the night before, which I was like, are you kidding?

I have to run in the snow and on trails Cool.

And I have no trail shoes.

But I only slipped once and I didn't really fall all the way down.

4:43

My right leg did go in the Creek, however, which was not super enjoyable.

But Stephanie's dogs made it across, but I did not.

She has three of them.

And again, if you go listen to her episode, you'll learn.

And if you listen to her episode, you'll learn more about all of them.

4:58

But they were so much fun to run with too.

So maybe I will do my first trail race in 2025.

I did do a holiday park trail run in Indy that I kind of forgot about that I loved, but I feel like I need to do like a legit, legit trail race.

5:15

So we shall see, Who knows, but thank you to everybody who's listened this last year.

If you are still listening, please share rate and review.

I would really appreciate the support.

Of course, that's how other people find this podcast.

5:31

So thank you and I hope everyone enjoyed the holidays as well.

I'm actually recording this from Alexandria, VA where I will be spending a few days with my husband's family and then we are going to Florida from here.

5:47

So looking forward to getting some sun, a little bit vitamin D as we kick off 2025 S.

This week's guest is Mike Cole.

Mike holds the Guinness Book World Record for the fastest marathon run while carrying a 14 inch pizza.

6:05

So let that sink in and we talk all about that story.

He also this year decided to challenge himself as he's 49 years old.

So his last year before he turns 50, he decided to run a marathon every month.

One of those, spoiler alert, happened to be the Leadville 100 Miller.

6:22

So we talked about that and then he just crushed it down in Rocket City, Alabama for his December marathon final marathon of the year and he crushed it.

Ran A2 4650, which got him 14th place and a first place win in his age group.

6:39

So Congrats Mike.

Amazing what you've done this year.

Certainly I'm inspired by it and you make it look so easy.

So Mike is also the founder of the Zionsville Half Marathon.

Him and his wife Julie started that.

He owns a ton of Greeks pizzas around the Midwest.

6:57

He also started Indiana Elite, which we talked about.

So this was a really fun episode to record because it was the first time we met.

And I loved getting to know Mike, and I know that you will too.

So enjoy.

All right.

Welcome, Michael.

Thank you.

7:13

I'm excited to be here.

This is the first time we're ever meeting, which is so fun for me.

That is correct.

I've I've listened to several of your podcasts and kind of followed along with you the last several months at least on your Instagram and social media and.

Well, thank you.

Congrats on a PR a few weeks ago.

7:30

Thank you.

Yeah, you and I were just talking about how great that day was at Monumental.

Yeah, perfect conditions, perfect amount of runners.

Like the race is getting so fast.

It's it's crazy.

It's wild.

Yeah, you're up, You're up there and you're like disappointed in 200 something.

Well, not disappointed, but you're like, hey, there's a lot of fast.

7:46

People, yeah, it's amazing being around that.

I mean, you know, being able to sleep in your own bed and driving 20 minutes to a race and, and, and running fairly well and placing.

I think I was 200 right on the dot.

Oh, that's fun.

Was it was a good day.

8:01

I'm beautiful and perfect weather, I thought.

A little windy.

On the little, little windy on the back end, but the first time I ever ran the full at Monumental was 22.

Yeah.

Did you run that?

Year was that pouring down rain and.

It wasn't pouring, but it was the Super wind year, OK?

Like where you turned on the end to head to the finish.

8:18

Yeah, I think I was there.

I I might have ran the half or I came to watch friends or something.

I don't know what, but I I was on the I was on the finish line at least somewhere around to see.

I think Jesse Davis like run pretty well and some of the other guys.

I can't wait to see what we do next year.

8:35

Just going to, it's going to keep growing.

I mean, I, I feel like it's, I mean, it has potential and maybe it already is to be a top 10 marathon in the nation.

We will be, yeah, yeah, we're.

So this year it will move us up from 15 to 14th in the country.

Great.

Awesome.

8:50

In terms of size, you know, the issue becomes like trying to figure out do we have our events on different days so that we can have more people join us at the marathon kind of thing, which other races have done like Philly and I mean, plenty of others.

So we'll see.

We'll see, but I'm excited.

9:05

Well, I think it's a perfect time of the year.

I mean, marathoners want it to be fairly cold, but not too cold.

And other than 2022, I, I can't remember.

I always told people like run the monumental half.

It's, you know, you'll always have great weather.

9:21

And then that one year it was, it was rough.

But right, that's the worst one you recommended in this their.

First year, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's it's gotten, both races have gotten crazy fast.

Yeah, yeah.

I think I can only remember one year that I did the half where it was like sleeting.

Yeah.

And that was brutal.

9:37

But yeah, yeah.

Anyway, congratulations to you on your Guinness Book of World Records.

Thank you.

Fastest marathon carrying a 14 inch pizza.

Is that the craziest thing you've ever seen?

It's.

The greatest?

Thing I've ever seen podcast.

Yeah, I was like, I saw, I forget how I first caught wind of it.

9:57

I mean, maybe some of the other guys like Mark Geyer had shared it, Nate Spangle.

And I was like, who is this guy?

And then I realized, I know, I know.

Indiana Elite, at least by name.

Not super familiar, but I'm excited to learn more about how that came together.

10:12

But how in the world did the Guinness Book of World Records thing come together?

So I'm 49, you know, and, and, and we can go into the this, you know, later maybe too, but I'm at the, the tail end of that age group where I, I can't win things anymore, especially with all my my teammates that are so good.

10:33

And we can talk about the team later too, but you know, when we formed the team, I was, you know, maybe one of the top five guys or whatever.

But now I'm on the back end and just kind of waiting to turn 50.

When, when we can put together, we'll have, we'll have 5 or 6 guys on the team that'll be 50 at that point.

10:49

And we can, we can try to compete at the 50 plus age group level.

But so I, I wanted to figure out fine, you know, figure something out where I could do something fun this year at that 49 and not have to worry about trying to run fast.

But, but a, a big challenge to me.

11:05

And I came up with the 12 marathon 12 thing for me.

And I think some of my teammates and my family thought I was a little crazy and friends, you know, but basically I wanted to run a marathon every single month.

January.

It doesn't matter if it was the 1st or the 31st, it had to be in that month.

11:23

And there was some sometimes where it was three weeks apart and there were sometimes where it was I had one month or two where it was seven weeks apart.

In the last three, I've done three and seven weeks.

So that was fairly tough.

Before Monumental I had just ran Columbus, OH 3 weeks.

11:39

Before that.

Before that and then three weeks before that was the the pizza thing.

So during this 12:12 and 12:00, I started like trying to figure out other crazy things I could do within it.

So I looked at the Guinness Book stuff and there was, you know, this Guinness Book record out there that was basically a four hour marathon carrying a 14 inch pizza.

12:03

Had to be.

Yeah.

Where do you find out what records there are?

Did you go online?

Yeah, you go online, you Guinness has a website and you just kind of research it and.

So you could search like running or like marathon and it would tell you.

Yeah, so did.

You search for pizza specifically.

12:19

Yeah, but you know, because.

Given your.

Connection.

Yeah, your listeners probably don't understand or realize that I've I've, I've been in the pizza business for 30 years now.

So I didn't know that either.

So then when I figured that, I was like, oh, that's.

That makes more.

Sense yeah.

So I've I've built 20 plus Greeks pizzerias through the years.

12:40

Worked for the Greek in college at Ball State.

Started with him in 1995, graduated in 99 with, with a teaching degree. 2001 my wife Julie and I built our first store in Angle, Indiana, which is, was, was my hometown.

So I went back home and then, you know, I, I kind of, we get bored of things so we build 1 sell it, build, sell, build, sell and that's what we did.

13:05

And we moved to Zionsville about 14 years ago and, and built the Zionsville Greeks Pizzeria there.

And, and that was just a great store.

It was a home run store, great town, great school systems, trails for the, you know, my kids were getting older so I didn't want to move them anymore.

13:21

Three boys and we've just stayed in Zionsville and that's been kind of like my baby store.

While I've owned Zionsville, I've built a few here and there and sold a few.

West Clay.

No, but I, you know, I kind of helped those guys a little bit.

I help the whole company.

It's kind of like a little side thing I do.

13:37

There is 40 locations now.

All in Indiana or Midwest?

All in Indiana back in the 70s and 80s, we had some other stores in other other states.

We could grow again to other states.

You know 40 stores is a lot, you know for central IN.

13:54

Yeah, I did.

I had no idea there were forty of them.

Forty of them.

I split my business between Zionsville and West Clay.

Yeah, W Clay's super close to my house.

Yeah, we have a lot of friends in Zionsville, So when we order pizza.

Well, I appreciate.

It.

Yeah, Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah, so I mean, it's, and it's been a great family business where my kids have all worked in the yeah, in the business.

14:11

And my two oldest, you know, if something happened to me, you know, they're in college, but if something happened to me, they could probably run the place.

I mean, that's, that's how well they know the business.

But, you know, so when, when I was looking at other things to do Guinness Book stuff, I was like, well, let's see if there's anything pizza related.

14:28

And, and I found that and you know, 6 pages of criteria from having to measure the pizza and and show video of the pizza and have the witnesses.

And that's where Mark and Michelle Guyer came came about.

And so they.

14:44

Were your official?

Did they sign anything?

Yeah, they had to sign witness statements.

They had to be with me the whole time on bikes, photos.

They took photo and video every single mile, finish line stuff.

The video of me finishing was marked behind me.

Okay.

And then Nate Spangle was there at the at the finish line as you.

15:01

Have some milestones as well, yeah.

Did you have to have like your Strava upload like the GPS?

No, but we had to have an official statement from the from the the race director.

OK, yes, submitted as well and and official results and it had to be USA sanctioned.

15:19

So I had to get approval by Guinness Pryor.

Wow, so short story it's.

A big ordeal.

I've never, I've never.

I don't know anyone, I don't think that has a Guinness Book of World Records record.

Short story, I tried to submit it to Monumental and I got turned down.

Really.

15:34

Yeah.

Who turned you down?

I, I and I get it because it was.

It's just it's too big, you know, and I wouldn't have wanted to do it there.

I mean, now that I think about, I think.

Well, in the corral, I'm like picturing the corrals, like holding.

You're like trying to hold.

A pizza.

So I think, yeah, I, I think the mill race was perfect, you know, and, and and they really.

15:53

Is that race?

What's that?

Where is that race?

What city in Indiana?

That's in Columbus, IN.

Columbus, IN.

And they were great.

And, and it was, I think it was good for them too.

I mean, they, they promoted it.

The mayor was there talking about it.

The, the Chamber of Commerce helped me out a lot and, and you know, they had a table for us at the end of the, at the end of the race and we passed out water bottles and pizza and.

16:16

That's so fun.

The Greeks in Columbus came out and brought pizza and stuff like that.

So it was, it was, I felt awful.

It was not a great race, right?

And it rained.

Didn't.

It yeah, it was.

And I just ran the Leadville 103 weeks earlier.

16:32

Right, no big deal.

So I was just, I mean, I, I thought I felt OK the week of, but once we got into the race, you know, I, I've, I've never hit the wall running 7 minute pace and I hit the wall running 7 minute pace and, and it was not, it was not a fun last 10K.

16:50

And, and Mark was there next to me on the bike and he was encouraging me and I was like, I'm hitting the wall running now.

I'm running like 730 pace at the time and and it was pouring down rain and the pizza box was like falling apart.

17:07

I saw one video I think where you had put a bag around it.

At one point so early on, we had a bag around it, which I was hoping like Guinness was going to be OK with it.

I assume they were right.

You're.

Like it's in there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it was, it was, it was a see through bag so you could see like.

There's no magic tricks happening.

17:23

Box Yeah, yeah.

So I took, I think I, I, I threw the bag away like with maybe 10K to go because I mean, it was raining hard at one point and early in the race I felt OK.

I was like, OK, this is going to be OK.

Maybe I'll run, maybe I'll run a 3 hour marathon today.

17:41

And it just did not happen.

But you had to finish in under 4, which for you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was their justification.

Yeah.

The record was 4.

I had to finish under four.

And we knew that was going to happen.

But so then it became OK, let's just not mess anything up.

17:57

Let's get all the photos they need and everything and and and, you know, get video me at the finish line finishing and the start line and everything.

So.

But, you know, you know, I tell you what.

And then three weeks later, I, I've, I ran, I went to the Columbus, OH marathon and I felt incredible.

18:15

Like it's just, you never know.

And this has been such a great experiment this year with my body.

And I've learned, I've, I've told most of my running friends this and my family.

I've, I've learned more at the age of 49 running these 12 marathons.

18:31

Well I got my 12th one in like 3 days.

From I was going to say, wait, what?

Day is it?

Yeah, but I've learned more this year than I've I've ever learned.

I've learned how to run a marathon like, and I'm not like compared to what, what I ran in the past, like when I was in my prime, like they're not like super fast times.

18:47

But I've learned more about like, I know how to run a marathon now.

Like if I was going to coach my, one of my kids, one of my sons or anybody, I used to coach athletes, but I don't anymore.

But if I was going to coach somebody, like I know more about nutrition, you know, and, and how to do things like the calorie intake in a marathon is so important, I think.

19:06

And, and a lot of people don't look at that, you know, taking gels and fluids and things like that and like, and not going out too fast.

And, but it's, it's just been a great year.

I've, I've never been able to like meet people and talk to people and socialize with people during runs and help, help help people break 3 hours for the first time in their life and, and celebrating with people at the finish line that had just broken three hours.

19:30

And, you know, I've, I've picked up so many Strava followers just from people I'm racing with.

Then they follow me after the race, you know, and, and thank me for like helping them or, or, or whatnot.

But it's, it's been great.

You know, it's been, it's been a, it's been an experience and I'm, I'm really happy I did it.

19:48

I'll turn 50 next year.

We'll have some other goals like, you know, try to focus on the 50 plus team and and and try to get my speed back again after running.

You know, just all these marathons, I just like to think they're just cooking my they're just cooking my body as far as I don't have any speed right now whatsoever.

20:10

Yeah, back to the the pizza marathon too.

I saw that you trained at times with like a weighted pizza box.

How how many runs did you take a pizza on?

Yeah, so I think I did.

I, I had extra boxes I used and I, I did weighted boxes with no pizza twice hour, just hour runs.

20:34

And then I did AI think I did an hour and a half run then about a week before with an actual pizza in there just to see, you know, moving around and things like that.

And.

And where are you running?

Because I just picture like I'm on the designs of a rail trail and like there comes a guy holding.

20:51

Oh yeah, yeah.

I mean, one of my good friend John Porate like kept making fun of me, like, oh, I can imagine all these people making fun of, you know, like on the trail and everybody did look and I try not to make that much eye contact with them.

Yeah.

So yeah, just like out and back on the rail trail towards Whitestown and back.

21:08

And you're I'm just mainly your pet practicing positions like with the box.

Yeah.

How do you hold it?

I mean, obviously you're not holding it like a, you're going to flip it up.

There, no, yeah, it's like you've got like 3 or 4 main positions.

You got the right hip the the left hip, you've got the front holding it against your waist, but then you've got the two handed not touching your body at all like thing.

21:30

Because you're just trying to like get different muscles to be.

Cracked and then every now and then it's a single hand, but that's maybe like 510 seconds as you're adjusting to like the other side.

But it's it's, it's basically tucking it on your hip and trying to be at an angle where it's not like completely vertical.

21:48

Yeah.

Now, yeah, so that it's like clumped all up in there Now, could you, would it be?

What were the things you couldn't do?

Like, could you?

Like what if it dropped?

Couldn't drop it.

Yeah, like they said it's they said it wouldn't count if you dropped it now.

I mean you don't have video of the whole thing, but I never dropped it.

22:06

But like how do they would?

They prove.

That, yeah.

But yeah, I never dropped it.

You're not allowed to have handles on it.

Like a bag, like a delivery bag.

OK, that makes sense.

Although I don't think you'd really want to add a ton of other.

Weight to it, you've got to measure it.

You have the video measuring it before the before the race, which I did.

22:25

When was the pizza made?

I made it the night before and I just, I froze it, you know, and kept it froze in the car like with ice down.

I just wanted it to be solid that.

Makes sense.

I wouldn't.

Have thought about that, yeah.

Yeah.

And then I literally like and it's kind of like on a cardboard circle.

22:43

And then I moved it into the actual box I was going to use because I didn't want the box I was going to use to already be damp from having.

Yeah, the grease or whatever.

Froze.

Yeah, yeah, like being froze, like the.

More that yeah, OK, I didn't think about that either.

Now, did you cut it?

Did you have to have it?

Cut.

No, they did not say anything about cutting it, so I did not cut it.

22:59

OK.

That makes a difference yeah, cuz I'm just capturing it like yeah, all the slices, like it would have been falling all over the place.

So not cutting it was definitely like, that's a game changer.

Yeah.

Because if I would have had to cut it, then I would have had to be way more careful, like keeping it level.

23:16

Yes, cuz if you would hold it then all the yeah.

So if you saw some of my videos, it's like at an angle.

Yeah, most of my videos, but like the pizza with the beans so cold and rainy that I think it stayed more froze.

I mean, that thing was pretty solid even.

23:31

Well, no wonder you didn't eat it at the end.

Yeah, I'm like picturing you crossing the finish line and like eating a piece of pizza.

I showed it, but I didn't eat it.

Yeah, I noticed because I was going to ask you because I think a lot of people probably think, oh, did you?

Well, did you just open it right up after your marathon and eat it?

And it's like, no, no, sure.

23:47

Didn't It was frozen and.

I mean, we, we could have, but yeah, it wouldn't have been something I would have wanted to do.

Right.

Yeah.

Oh man.

But it was challenging taking gels on, holding a, you know, like you're, you're trying to take fluids while you're holding it, you're trying to take gel.

24:02

So you're like ripping it with your teeth.

And yeah, I don't, I don't like littering.

So you're like making sure you don't RIP it all the way off the gel thing?

Well, that's gotta be so hard.

Yeah.

Yeah, cuz you have no extra, huh?

OK.

Another thing I wouldn't have thought about.

OK.

And then so at what point do you get like the certification, the plaque, all the things?

24:20

So we're still waiting and they set up the three and we're right at the three month mark, OK.

And it's one of those things like, you know, Guinness is a business.

So it's like they want you to like pay for the expediting fees.

I think there's like $100 expediting fee and I could have, but I'm like, I'm not in any hurry.

24:37

Like I know I did it.

I know I submitted everything right I expected at any time.

I emailed them a few weeks ago and they said they're still working on it.

Working on it.

Yeah, like, well, it'd be great Christmas.

Gift.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, like I want to do the pictures with the, you know, with the plaque and all that.

24:52

Yeah.

But so then do you get I don't know anything about how Guinness works?

Like do you then order a printed book like?

So and I don't there's so many, I doubt it goes in the books.

You know, like I, Yeah.

Is it like an encyclopedia now?

Because there's like.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely online, like recorded.

25:11

And the actual book is probably not even half of the actual Guinness records.

You know, the guy, the guy that broke the, you know, the backyard race, like in one ran 450 miles.

He's in the Guinness Book this year.

That was like a record in there.

I saw on social media that he's actually in the book, but that's like 1 of 100, you know, probably 500 running records, you know, that are that are in there like.

25:36

I'm so curious now.

Yeah.

What?

Do you remember?

Any other?

Examples.

Oh, there's just every suit you can wear, like right, OK Centipede.

So people like link together.

Right, like a cat.

I've seen a Caterpillar.

Yeah, and and there was another one like a chef, you know, you could dress as a chef.

25:52

Did you see the guy that cooked a cake baked a cake in Germany?

And ran with a cake.

He like, no, he had this like structure.

Around when he was baking.

And he literally made and baked a cake.

That's crazy.

I was like, what in the hell?

And basketball, dribbling right and the.

26:10

Pineapple guy Have you seen the pineapple guy?

Yeah, the yeah, I.

Just, I mean some of these races like London and some of them there's like 10 or 15 attempts in every single like London Marathon like.

That's fascinating.

And some of those races, like they want, they want that, yeah.

26:26

Which is surprising because like I'm thinking back to monumental, like I understand why they they logistically, why they wouldn't want it and liability, why they wouldn't want it.

Another biker on the course, you know, I mean, we just went that social media thing with that Choi guy that at New York City went by, you know, with the electric bikes, bikes on the course.

26:46

It's just the danger, right?

I can understand I they don't want Mark Geyer and Michelle Geyer on a bike.

Next to meet the pizza.

Got it.

Yeah, because, I mean, even 20 miles in to to the Monumental Marathon is like, I was still like in a pack of people.

27:01

Yeah, yeah, you know, and I was running 248 pace.

So it's like that crowded 2 hours into a race.

Can you imagine bikes also being on the course?

That's yeah, makes sense.

Makes sense.

It'd have been fun though.

Yeah, and plus, I'm so happy how it turned out because Monument was the perfect day to run fairly fast.

27:19

Yeah, you know, and finally I got a chance to open it up a little bit this year, so.

I could talk about the Guinness Book of World Record stuff forever.

I think so.

So Congrats again.

I can't.

Wait to see.

Your picture with your official plaque.

So cool.

And now I want to go Google and see like if there's any random thing, yeah.

27:37

There's probably stuff that you could do that's out there.

Right.

Or you could just can you make it up?

It's just so weird.

I think you can submit like ask them for like, hey, can I do this?

And then they can say, OK, yeah, that can be a new record.

Let's let's do it.

Yeah, I mean, surely people have like, OK, fastest marathon like holding hands.

27:53

I'm just thinking like random.

Stuff.

Well, do a podcast during a marathon, Yeah, right.

There's maybe that's probably out there.

Yeah.

Or maybe they would make that a record.

Yeah.

Nobody's done it yet, right?

I'll be so hard.

I don't think I could do it.

I can't talk and run really when I'm trying.

Well, I guess if you're not trying to really race anyway, so cool.

28:11

I also want to talk about your 12 marathons in a year too, because that's we could spend the next hour just talking about those.

So did you decide in your mind like they're all have to be like a race you register for and run versus running just 26 two?

28:27

They all had to be a medal.

It had to be in that particular month.

It didn't matter if it was the 1st of January or the 31st of January, it had to be in that month.

And there was a couple issues along the way where I had registered for a trail marathon in Brown County.

I can't remember what it was Trail Marathon, Brown County and and it was it got flooded and it was going to be.

28:48

Awful and.

So literally I was registered for that and I decided that morning that I was going to run the next day and run the Cleveland Marathon instead.

So somehow I got into the Cleveland Marathon on a Sunday when I was supposed to be running a Brown County Marathon Trail Marathon on a Saturday.

29:12

That is So yeah.

And I went up there and I ran pretty well, like 255 or 254 or something and, and, and it was great.

It was fun.

So that was January.

That that was actually, that would have been May.

Oh yeah, that wouldn't have been January.

Yeah, that would have been.

29:27

May so that would have been yeah, so.

January where Sarasota they had hardly any water on the course.

I I hit the wall 10K to go.

I ran three O 3.

I was probably out in 250 pace the 1st 20 miles and I did some walking and things like that.

29:45

The next month was St.

Petersburg, FL, which completely the opposite experience.

Great race, great on course entertainment.

Just they put on a great race.

I think I went to 55.

I got second place.

I oh cool with with a quarter mile to go, I passed the 2nd place guy that it kind of hit the wall and and I did it right in front all these the these this crowd and it was pretty cool and my mom was there.

30:10

I took my mom to Florida for a couple days.

That's cool.

And I got second place there.

And then March was Chattanooga, which is very hilly.

I helped two other guys break 3 for the first hour I ran.

We ran pretty much with a three hour pacer.

So he's running with a sign.

And the last four miles I, I, I turned on the gas a little bit.

30:28

I think I went 257, pulled away a little bit and that was a great fun experience.

I waited on the finish line for those guys that I've been running with the finish.

And April, of course, was caramel.

Oh yeah.

Take the only race I kind of went after a little bit this year.

30:43

In my mind I went after it and and I did hit the wall in Carmel with 10K to go.

I went out in like 244 pace and was still on like 248 pace with three or four miles to go and it just kind of fell apart for me.

Felt a little warm.

Yeah, I felt great through halfway coming down the trail and everything.

31:01

And then I was just alone once I got off the the Monon, like mile 17 or something and just completely alone for several miles.

I ran 250, which is still, I look back and that's like, that's fine.

You know, that's a lot.

Of people listening to this, people like, yeah.

31:17

Yeah, yeah, no, yeah.

So it's like and that's the thing, like some of my buddies like when you going to go after when you going to try and I'm like, well, this is pretty good.

I think like because you only have three weeks to recover and then you've got to do another one.

You cannot ever go to the to the well in any of these.

31:35

May the very last one, which but I've felt horrible the last four weeks.

So I'm not going to and then in in May or no.

And so then.

Yeah, April Carmel.

Yeah, May was the Cleveland one.

OK, Yeah, Guy, the guys names escape in my mind, but it's the guy that that holds the Guinness Book for the 450 miles that won the backyard.

31:59

OK, Yeah, I don't.

I ran with him for 16 miles and we just chatted.

We got all these pictures together.

It was pretty.

Great, at which one?

At that was that was Cleveland.

Yeah, that's cool.

So he's fairly famous in the Ultra world, One of the top 10 Ultra guys probably.

Oh, my Ultra friends are like, yeah, I do not know who that was.

32:15

I know it's like.

Well, yeah, at least you should know, yeah.

My brain is fried right now for some reason, but anyway, yeah.

I'll just edit it in there.

So so anyway, he, you know, we were chatting the whole time and he had a lot of fans on the course, so that was pretty cool.

And after the race we we got a photo together.

32:32

That's fun.

That is cool.

So that was I think 2:54 and then and then my whole idea was to to flip it around and go to the trails and go to Colorado and things like that.

We have two kids in College in Colorado.

We have a house in Colorado.

So then to do some races in Colorado.

32:49

So I had I had signed up for Pikes Peak in September ish I believe, which I ended up not doing.

I did a different race instead, which was actually I think the mill race.

Oh, right.

Yeah, September.

So June was Leadville Marathon in my mind, like, OK, if I do well enough in the Leadville Marathon, so I always have these like different goals going on, I would qualify for the Leadville 100, which which this is the only time in the next several years that I would ever attempt to do it because next year and I'm I'm going to be doing age.

33:24

Groups.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So what if I, you know, somehow get a golden coin to Leadville 100?

So I didn't do great in the Leadville Marathon.

I fell, I've sat on a rock for 5-10 minutes and, and you know, like bloody and things like that.

So I ended up finishing and I placed, I don't know, 50th or something.

33:44

I didn't win like a golden coin but then they they draw 20 coins randomly at the end and and I was the second person to get drawn.

Oh my.

God, so I'm like, in shock.

Yeah, like.

And I tell.

You like cool the year that I'm also doing.

33:59

Yeah, yeah.

So, but I, I'm, you know, quickly in my mind, I'm like, well, 100 is I'm going to count that, you know, because that's like 4 marathons.

Right.

I think that's fair.

Yeah.

So that was in my mind.

That's like fair.

Yeah.

So I have like basically six weeks then until the Leadville 100, but it's.

34:16

Only six weeks after.

OK, so in my brain I'm like, Oh well, I've been training for this.

Kind of like you know this.

You're like, OK, this I can do that.

Because I know Leadville 100 is like half of its walking, which it was, Yeah.

So that was June.

July we went.

We did a family vacation around my San Francisco marathon.

34:35

So I went to San Francisco around the San Francisco Marathon, which is just brutally hilly.

Yeah, I have that.

Scares me.

Oh, it was like way more than you think.

Like those hills you see in the movies and the shows, like the straight up streets.

I mean you're hitting those every mile it seemed like.

34:52

I think I went three O 9.

I turned that into like a long run for Leadville because it was three weeks from Leadville.

So I did, I did a four and a half mile warm up.

I did a three mile cooldown.

I tried to get some bulk in that day.

Yeah, yeah.

And then literally my family's like, all right, let's go, let's go sightseeing all day.

35:11

Let's.

Walk around those.

Mills again, Yeah.

So let's go walk around.

And we did.

And it was so then three weeks later I'm in Leadville.

I flew my buddy John Pori out with me to be a pacer and, and one of my crew guys.

And then my middle son Skyler, who goes to mines in Colorado, Golden, Co, he drove over too.

35:28

And he was, that was going to be my crew, my buddy and my my son.

And they were going to both pace.

You're allowed to pace over the last like 40 miles.

So you know, got up at 3:00 in the morning.

The race starts at 4:00.

If you might know is a super fast.

David Roche broke the course record super fast from the beginning.

35:46

Like the whole front ends going out at under 6 minute pace.

How many people run that?

I think they allow 800 in it yeah.

So I'm just you know, and then the the first four or five miles is is fairly quick.

So I mean under 7 minute pace and then you just start this these brutal hills and brutal trails rocky like there's no, it was almost a 50 year old guy from Indiana.

36:09

It was just almost unrunnable.

So like after the first thirty, I'm not running much, but I'm like speed walk and I'm not stopping for much.

You see, you see video of like and I've got a video actually on YouTube.

Yeah, that was really cool.

I'll share that.

36:25

Yeah.

But you know, I'm trying to get in and out of these eight stations quick and I think that was part of the key.

Just keep moving.

Hope pass was insane.

It's basically you go up to 12,500 feet and you're doing like 3000 foot climb over the course of a mile.

36:43

And I can't even.

I can't.

And you hit that twice.

That would kill me like just like on a like a leisurely hike.

I tell you that.

I mean, in, in some ways it was the hardest thing I've ever done, but in other ways it was like the the greatest thing I ever did.

Like you're out there half the time by yourself and it's just so beautiful.

37:00

And down the road, I think, you know, in a few years I want to get back to doing maybe some more of the like mountain ultras, you know, and just being out in nature by yourself like it's, it's insane going Creek crossing, river crossings.

Any animals, wildlife.

37:17

Yeah, animals, you know there.

There's one aid station where they have to bring all the stuff up by llamas.

So there's like a dozen llamas up there way up in the mountains up on the Hope Pass.

You know, you're, you're, you're coming back into mile 63 or so.

37:34

I pick up John and, and you know, he's, he's running with me into the night a little bit, still running a little bit like I'm running maybe 1/3 of it at that point, you know, whatever I can like any, any, anything that's flat, anything.

I'm, I'm more worried the entire, I probably lost two hours, honestly, just from being worried about falling because in the back of my mind I've got this other, all these other things going on.

38:00

I've got the pizza marathon coming up in three weeks.

I can't be hurt.

I've got the 12 marathons, 12 months in my brain.

This is more important than that stuff's more important than Leadville.

So where I thought I could go like 2223 hours ended up being 20, almost 26 hours.

38:18

And it was just from just being conservative, you know, not falling.

And I never did fall.

I fell back a couple times, like and sat back on my butt a few times, like coming down like some really rocky sections in the last 10 miles.

But but I, I never felt like I did in the Leadville marathon and you know, I was bleeding everywhere in the Leadville Marathon.

38:40

Like, so, so anyway, like I pick up my, my middle child at like, I don't know what it is. 10 PM, 11:00 PM at night with 23 miles to go, Skyler.

And he's basically been waiting all day to do this.

38:57

You're like, he's like ready to go.

Yeah.

Like he's ready to go.

And we're, we're gone.

And we're, there was a section of about two miles where you're on a road and he falls, my son falls and trips.

And it was a long story like these people behind us were telling like screaming, you missed the turn, you turn here.

39:16

And then we turned around to see what they said.

And he kind of like fell like when he turned, we didn't miss the turn.

It was further down.

So they were wrong.

But anyway, he's like gushing blood.

So I gave him, I had some bandages packed, I gave him and he had some too.

So he's like, he's like, I'm going to be fine.

39:32

I'll catch up.

So I kept going because I didn't want to really stop because we were getting ready to do another huge climb and I was feeling pretty good at that time.

So it took him like 20-30 minutes to catch back up with me.

And the pitch dark, I mean, it's dark and we're, you're up in the mountains.

So, you know, we're trucking along And I felt pretty good till about 15 miles to go.

39:51

And we, we hit a really like narrow rocky section.

I just, you couldn't run much at all anymore.

So I probably lost another hour like.

Through that, you know, and, and I tell you like, it feels like a, you know, a small dream that I can barely remember because you're so tired.

40:08

But it was, it was probably one of the greatest experiences of my life, running with my son for seven hours through the whole night.

I mean, all night.

I mean, we finished at 5:00 in the morning, I guess, you know, 5:30 in the morning.

John was at the finish line.

40:25

We took some photos.

He was, he was cooked and ready to go to, you know, everybody's just tired.

Yeah, You know, we went to bed for like an hour and had to get out of the Airbnb by, you know, 9:00.

And we were on a flight later that day, you know, and Sky went back to school and it was great.

40:42

And three, three weeks later, I'm running the the pizza marathon.

So we did the pizza marathon.

That was September then.

Well, I guess what do?

We miss.

Pizza marathon.

Yeah, so.

So July would have been San Francisco, August would have been Leadville, September would have been pizza.

41:04

And then I went to Columbus, OH, three weeks after the pizza and if I felt great.

I've heard good things.

About the race.

And that was incredible.

That was like they're shooting fireworks off the first mile, like, oh cool, there's so many people in the crowd.

I think as far as like competitors, it was very similar to Monumental and I'm not sure where you guys.

41:24

I actually should probably.

Know that, but I don't I bet it's very similar yeah.

I think they had more spectators on the course, they had a little more entertainment on the course, but as far as competition, probably Monumental was better.

But as far as like just the atmosphere was just crazy at Columbus.

I couldn't believe it.

41:40

The fireworks, the, the bands, the, the spectators were amazing.

And then, you know, going into Monumental, I, I just basically went in to run 255.

Like I have been in all these fairly flat Rd. marathons and I found myself running 615 miles early on, which I couldn't believe it, You know, like what is going on here?

42:02

I'm like, I'm, I'm, I felt like I was jogging and finally like 10 KN I'm like, well, I might as well just see what happens now.

And I ran 248 and that was honestly my easiest marathon of the year, Monumental.

And, and it felt very easy.

I don't understand, I can't explain it.

42:19

I think so weird.

I think I had just trained basically 11 months of doing these long runs, 26 mile long runs, right, to get ready for that.

And that would have been the day I could have ran really fast if I didn't have another one in my brain like to go.

And then this last four weeks building up to my last one, I just have not felt great.

42:38

So we'll see what happens.

I mean, it could be like monumental.

I had, I had an IT issue like the whole week of monumental my knees killing me and I didn't feel it at all during Monumental it felt great.

But the IT band issues been bothering me the last month Achilles flare up for the first time in like 20 years like is going on.

42:56

So I think my body's just ready to be done with this.

Yeah, what's your last one?

Huntsville, AL Rocket City Huntsville, AL So I did it 25 years ago.

You.

Did.

That's cool.

Yeah, so about 25 years ago.

What's the elevation down there?

I think, I mean elevate, I don't know what the elevation I should look.

43:15

I don't think it's much, but there's not a whole lot of gain.

I mean 4 or 500.

I mean, it's a little more than monumental on the gain side, a little more hilly.

But but I ran 230 back in when we when, when we had no shoes, like when you're running in like training shoes, basically to race in like when I was in my prime.

43:33

I'll probably run 255 again, but I don't, who knows?

I don't.

I might run 3:05, I might run 245.

Yeah, I have no idea.

Flip a coin.

See what kind of.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So how will you celebrate this year?

Because.

By taking a day off finally, Yeah, that'd be actually maybe take three days off.

43:53

Oh, now we're talking.

It's hard.

I mean, you're like, you're going right into the holidays, so it's tough to like.

You know, not run.

Yeah, yeah.

Like, well, to celebrate, even.

Like, well, yeah, OK, yeah.

And that there's just so much going on.

Yeah.

Well, I feel like a lot of people, I don't know, you still the kid that just did the 50 marathons.

44:10

Yeah, I follow him.

Yeah.

And he was at.

Monumental.

Yeah.

I just told our team that.

I was like, I don't know how we figure out that he was gonna be there, but I was bummed that we didn't know.

I just happened to see him at the start and I was like Wyatt.

Well, I think he gets, I mean, I don't even know if you know, a week before he might not even know where he's.

44:26

That's true.

That is true.

But it's like how do we find those people and be like come to our race later this year, like make sure when you go to Indiana, it's for this.

But you're right, like people, I mean.

And he was somewhere the next day, I think he was racing.

He went to Wisconsin the next day to race it.

Now I forget why I why I was talking about him, but what did you say before?

44:43

Gosh darn it.

Oh, celebrating.

OK, so he just did that, right?

And people are like, OK, now what are you going to do?

And I just think of Simone Biles when people ask her, OK, like, what's next, Simone?

She's like, I just did all this, like, give me a chance to be like, breathe.

For a second.

Yeah.

And so I think that with with him, I was like, you know, I made a comment when I was I'm like just relaxed and celebrate, please.

45:04

And he's doing a he's running around like one of the islands in Hawaii right now.

You're like, OK, so that's why part of the reason why I ask is like, hopefully you.

I mean, I don't know.

I'll drive home.

I'll, my, all my kids will be back because they're, they're literally arriving back in Indiana.

45:19

My two kids from Colorado that are going to college out there flying back.

One's flying back Saturday when I'll already be driving down and one's flying back Sunday when I'm driving back from Alabama.

So we'll probably have family dinner together.

45:35

Watch the very last episode of Yellowstone and, and, and call the day, you know, get up and work the next day.

But I don't know, I've really haven't thought about it.

You know, I, I start thinking about this, the 50 plus team and, and, and hopefully we can win a couple of national titles on that side.

45:57

And that's USATF like thing, you know, like if you, if any of your followers follow the USATF stuff.

So my team, Indiana elite has done really well at the 40 plus stuff.

So now that a lot of us are aging up, you know.

That'll be yeah, you got.

46:13

To that'll be a big thing I think next year for for about, you know, five of us and we'll probably try to coerce a couple other 50 and over guys to be on the team as well at that point.

Yeah, this podcast is also brought to you by Athlete UK's.

46:30

Celebrate finish lines and milestones of the people you love by visiting athleteuks.com.

Use code PODCAST for 10% of your order.

I want to talk more about the team, but first we haven't even really touched on like your your upbringing, you mentioned you were from Angola.

46:49

I don't think we've talked about the fact that your parents had a farm.

So you you have an entrepreneurial spirit obvious obviously with the pizza stuff, but your parents owned a farm.

Talk a little bit about that and like how when you first realized that you were fast as a runner and.

47:06

All that stuff.

Well, I mean, and my mom, my mom tries to say that she's the one who kind of first realized that was fast.

Like because I won.

I was one of those was probably middle school, 6th grade or something.

I want to play football, you know, and, and I think mom was like, no, like the way you run bases and baseball, because I've been playing baseball at Little League.

47:27

Like you're so fast.

Like you got to go out for cross country.

So they made me go out for cross country.

They made you that's.

Yeah, so, so before that, you know, I grew up on farm, 10 year 4H guy.

Like, I mean, just farm, farm, farm like no city.

Like I know nothing about city like anything, you know, just grow up meat and potatoes type thing and work, work, work.

47:49

I mean, I was, I've been working since I was 10 years old, fairly fairly hard, like out in the fields and things like that.

So, you know, to to get on a sports team in school, that was like a relief.

I was, you know, around kids that weren't farmers for the first time and doing things that weren't around other farm kids, you know, because we grew up going to all these fairs everywhere, state fairs, showing sheep around the nation.

48:13

Like we showed sheep and raised cattle and did things like that and baled hay, a lot of hay.

So Paul Beckwith.

Paul Beckwith was my middle school coach, science teacher as well.

So I went three years with Beckwith.

By the time I was an eighth grader, I was I was running number one in the middle school team and I was running decent.

48:33

And he took me to my first 5K race after the season was over.

He was like, oh, let's go this road race.

And he took me to, to a road race and I, you know, and I, I ran like 19 minutes or something.

But we make fun because I still talk to him and we make fun of it because like this guy shows up and beats me.

That's wearing jeans and cowboy boots.

48:50

No, so I got beat by a guy with jeans and cowboy boots and my first 5K road race.

Pretty amazing he ran under 20.

Minutes.

Cowboy boots.

So, so then.

So ironically, then Coach Beckwith then gets the high school job, so then he is my coach.

49:05

Well, no wonder you still talk.

To us, so he's my coach for seven years and I'm pretty sure and I tell people this, but maybe it's not true, but I'm 99% sure I'm the only person he coached for seven years yeah.

You know, three years of middle school, four years in high school.

And it wasn't really till my junior year, late my junior year that I actually got what I would call good like state, state level good.

49:28

I made state in track my junior year and had some injuries and sickness and, you know, and and I had a pretty good senior year, you know, and then getting close to going to college, like my dad was like, well, do you want the farm?

49:43

You know, because it's just me and my sister.

She had already been to college.

She was getting ready to graduate.

She wasn't going to be a farmer.

And I'm like, no way like that.

Like the amount of work and like out in the sun and baling hay in the dust and everything and just, I wanted to go to college.

50:00

I wanted to run, so I went to college.

They basically sold the farm and retired, which I think was great for them too, you know, like, or they would have kept the farm going and helped me with the farm and they would have had to keep working.

I think while I was farming and it's not the life I wanted, I saw a different life, you know, I went to Ball State.

50:20

It wasn't my first choice, but I didn't run really well enough to go out West and run in some mountain, you know, distance running college like Montana or Colorado or something like that, you know, but.

What high school are you at?

I was at Angle High School and yeah, small school, but then, you know, went to Ball State.

50:40

Ran really well.

My freshman year.

I was running like number four or five on the team, but then I got hurt very, pretty bad.

I had Achilles surgery in the early spring of my freshman year.

You know, it basically took me out of about two years of running, 2 1/2, three years of running.

51:00

So I tell this story a lot.

I used to tell it a lot to like kids I coached and people I coached.

So the worst thing in my life that ever happened to me at the time, like, you know, was running was everything.

I, I ripped my Achilles out.

I couldn't run.

I was at a super low point in my life.

51:15

Probably some depression, I assume.

But then I joined the cycling team, you know, at the same time I walked into Greeks Pizzeria and got a job delivering at the Muncie Greeks on Ball States campus.

Joining the cycling team.

51:32

I met my wife, who's on my, my future wife, you know, who was on the cycling team?

Julie, you know, and, and, and I cycled for a couple years collegiately.

I did pretty well.

I think it helped build my, my leg muscles up, strengthen me at the time I'm working at Greeks, you know, and, and I worked all the way through the rest of my college career at Greeks as well.

51:53

It's.

A great job in college.

Yeah, yeah.

So I mean, like, I was just, I was bored because I wasn't running.

So I was like, what do I do?

And my roommate at the time, John Fendel, he was like, well, you should get a job delivering pizza.

It's good money.

So, you know, that's what I did because I had, I can't like sit still because I was in a cast at the time, I think from the surgery.

52:11

And gosh, so anyway, I say the worst thing that ever happened to me.

The time ended up being the best thing because you never know what's going to happen.

I can't imagine my life without meeting my wife, you know, and having these three wonderful kids that are incredible.

And then I can't imagine not being building restaurants and being a Greeks guy and owner of all these Greeks pizzerias that I've built and that life.

52:36

I got a teaching degree.

I did teach for two years because I was wondering, I wasn't going to not do it.

I got this, I've got this degree.

I've got to try it.

After the first year, I was like, I think I want to build a restaurant of Greeks and.

What kind of teaching?

52:52

What grade or?

So yeah, I taught at Calumet High School in Gary, IN.

I was also the pool director, the swim coach, the assistant track coach, the assistant cross country coach.

I did it all.

Wow, you're not.

Kidding.

I think I was probably one of the highest paid first year teachers ever because I had all these other jobs, extra things and it was great.

53:12

Calumet was a good school, very diverse.

I've still talked to 234 kids from that era.

That was 299 through 2001, and I still communicate at least on a yearly basis with like four or five of those kids.

I think I helped change a few of their lives.

53:28

I got a couple men to college.

One's a doctor now and South of Indianapolis, dentist, but one's ACPA down in Miami, FL and she's still run.

She coaches people.

It's it's been incredible life.

I can't imagine not doing what I'm doing.

53:45

So if I wouldn't have ripped my Achilles out, if my coach wouldn't have over trained me in college, you know, I wouldn't have met my wife.

I would have been down a totally different path.

But that's that's life.

And we could all say that, right.

So you know, we built our first place in Angola in 2001 and I ended up also while I was in Angola getting they offered me the tri-state University track and cross country coaching job, which is now trying university.

54:10

So I was coaching while I was doing these pizza things up there and building a few stores in there.

I was coaching for about 7 years at tri-state University, which is not trying.

And those kids are great.

And I still, you know, I'm still in touch with like probably about 10 of those kids that I coached.

54:28

I even met three of them like a month ago for, for dinner here in town.

But you know, and we just started having kids and, and I kept running through all those years.

I mean, that's like a big block of time, right?

But I mean, the amount of races and running, I never probably ever hit my potential because I was always on my feet and it's.

54:48

Doing Yeah, so many.

Things, Yeah.

And I was, I've, I've, I've told this story several times.

I would, I'd work on Friday from, you know, I'd get up and run and then I'd work from 8:00 AM till 8:00 PM and then I drive to Indianapolis, stay with a buddy, run the indie mini or monumental or whatever, drive straight back to work, you know, our straight back up north and, and work.

55:14

And I mean, and that's what I did.

I would, I would always race with tired legs and, and, but it was fine, you know, and I don't, I mean, I didn't look at things like now everybody thinks about the shoes and, and everything, the nutrition and everything.

Like now it's all bicarb and different things going on.

55:31

Like, you know, you got to have the special shoes.

And, but you know, Fast forward and, you know, I'm, I'm, we're here and I'm, I'm meeting some people that are like John Poray and Jesse Davis that are like 38 ish or so.

And I'm, I'm probably 43 at the time.

55:47

And we're starting to talk about a, you know, 40 plus masters team, like putting together A-Team basically around those two guys who are very good runners that were going to turn 40 pretty soon and myself, who's still running decent in his under like lower 40s.

56:04

And this is, I don't know what, 770, you know, seven years ago or something, six years, you know, and then finally when they turned 40, a couple other guys have moved to town, Jason Ritter, who was my age, and and MM Jackson down in Bloomington.

56:20

And we formed this team, you know, and Rob all that lives in Carmel and we got Tom Burns and and his buddy Ziha.

And you know, we formed this team, you know, team Indian elite.

And we the first time we, we got together, we went to clubs in Florida and we won the national title barely like by two points.

56:40

And that was, I don't know if probably four years ago now, three years ago.

And, and, and since then we've had other people join like Mark Guyer as they age up.

And you know, I'm getting, you know, some of us are getting older and becoming more obsolete as some of these obsolete younger guys like, you know, come in.

56:55

And, and it's been great.

You know, it's been kind of a resurgence of what do you do when you get older and you start slowing down, other than Jesse, who doesn't slow down.

He actually sets PRS in his 40s.

Which is that amazing crazy when you form a team.

I don't, I don't know how else to ask this besides like, what's the what's the point of having a team when you win a national title through USATF?

57:18

What does that what does that mean?

Do you have sponsorships?

Like do you get prize money?

Is it for the competitive spirit aspect of.

It yeah, it's it's it's definitely 99% the competitive spirit and just checking off something that you know you could you did you won something.

57:36

It's like winning anything else as a team or as an individual.

Yeah, you put this team together and you won.

You beat these guys out in California that are like the best you.

Know how many teams are there in the Masters?

I mean, they're, you know, in those club championships, there's probably 2020 teams in each division, OK.

57:53

And they're pretty good teams.

So these guys are like a few more pros that just turned 40.

And, you know, you get maybe one pro guy on a team and you get, you know, four or five moderate guys and they're a pretty good team because that other one guy's like scoring very low.

58:09

It's like, you know, normally when we show up with Jesse and even John, like we score really low, like points, whereas, you know, we can have a fourth or fifth guy in my level and still win.

But you know, there's Rd. championships too.

In cross country.

You have to have five guys to score in the road, in the road races, which we typically will win most of the road races we go to.

58:29

And that first year we, we, we, we did them all.

Like we, we won everything.

We went to everything and it's, you know, it's and it's financially it's, it's, it's not cheap to do that, but we would show up, you know, John and Jesse and I showed up.

58:45

They go 1/2.

I get like 10th.

But we still easily win, you know, like like the 10K road championships.

But I mean, you know, we're all getting older too and some we have to keep bringing newer guys in if we want to stay fresh.

And then some of us are agent to the 50.

59:02

Now the 50s can still race down into the 40s.

But, but if we could put together A40 and A50 team, then that'd be great.

Yeah.

But there is some money.

So, you know, 99% is just to do it to try to win and and you know, the camaraderie and things like that.

59:18

And there is a little money, you know, if you win these races, you know, there's a giant banner hanging at Greeks and Zionsville for US winning the whole the whole year thing.

Like they do a total points for the whole year.

That's cool, I guess I need to go in.

Yeah, yeah.

59:34

So it's back there by the video games, like the 40 plus banner from a couple years ago.

Yeah.

How'd you get to keep the banner?

Well, cuz I guess cuz I.

Have somewhere to display.

I was, yeah, like I, you know, I think we put the first year we won, I put together like some plaques of some stuff and I gave one to Jesse to hang out runners for him.

59:52

I'm not sure if it's still there.

And Broad Ripple and I got 1 hanging at Greeks, you know, with with our thing.

And then they just like basically Greeks has become the place where they want to put things like so plaque plaques and banners and stuff like that.

So.

Yeah, that's cool.

Yeah, yeah, okay, so that's how Indiana.

1:00:11

Elite.

That's how India to be.

Elite got started.

How many people now, how many team?

And it's all men.

Correct.

Yeah, all men we've tried, you know, we've tried and tried and tried and reached out and and tried to get some ladies involved and we've even got some singlets for the girls and we just haven't had any.

1:00:28

Come on ladies.

Yeah, really step up and there's some great, I mean, you know, like, yeah, there's some, there's a team here that would win national titles.

Like around this area, Yeah, there is a women's team that could win national titles.

They just need to get together, Yeah.

And do it, but I I I'm still hoping that happens, but John and I have tried.

1:00:49

Yeah, I'm sure you have.

Yeah, well, that'd be that'd be.

Really cool.

Yeah.

So I mean basically, I mean it started like John and I were just running like we, we would do these runs back when I was like 42 and he was like 37 and we were just dreaming about the future and stuff like.

1:01:05

And I get it cuz like when you're 37, like you're almost at the, if you've been running your whole life, you're like, you're starting to slow a little bit.

So you're like, oh, when am I going to retire from running?

Am I going to keep going?

But being close to 40 and being in the masters division, it, it like keeps you going.

1:01:21

And that's what, because I almost retired and quit when I was like 3738, but I kept going so I could hit 40 and run in the master stuff.

But.

And now?

Yeah, So like as we got closer to John and Jesse getting to be 40, we were like trying to recruit people.

1:01:38

You know, we're lucky to have some guys like Tom Burns who ran really well for IU and and Jason Ritter, who, you know, is from Florida and ran four O 3 in the mile and and in college, like moved in and and some other and oh, Brian Lindsay.

1:01:56

I can't believe I didn't forgot about my buddy Brian Lindsay lives in Zionsville and and he was second in the nation in NCAA Division one 1500 when he was a senior at BYU.

So talent wise, he was probably the best guy on our team actually.

1:02:11

And, and he's he's won a few titles over the last couple years, but so.

Fun.

Yeah, it's so much fun.

I'm 38 so I'm on.

I'm like getting to that point where I can now kind of move up to the masters level.

Not saying that I could, but for me, I always thought that when I would get older that I would be slower and I'm running the fastest I ever have in my whole life.

1:02:33

And I think that's really cool.

And especially as like I just, you know, see and get to know other people in our community.

It's just really inspiring to see how there's like you feel like when I was 20, you're feeling like 40s, like super old, right?

1:02:49

And now you're like, it's not at all.

No, I've seen so many people like, especially if you haven't been grinding since you were like 15 years old, like running like I've seen so many people that got started running in their 30s and their PR in at 45.

And it used to be like 40 professional runners didn't race 8 past 35.

1:03:10

But I mean, you saw like Meb and some of these guys that are racing girls that are race.

I mean, look what Sarah Hall just ran, what, 223?

What, 4243 years old?

I mean, it's just amazing.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

So I want to talk a little bit more about your boys.

1:03:28

SO3 boys all in college.

Next year the first one graduates.

Yeah, so Aiden, Aiden, my youngest, is a senior in high school.

Oh, he but he's going OK Yeah.

And Logan, my oldest, is a senior in college.

OK.

And where He's out in Colorado then too.

1:03:44

But where in Colorado?

He's at Colorado Springs.

OK, UCCS, UCCS.

OK, it's.

A division two team, they're always, you know, they're usually around 15th in the nation cross country wise.

He was one of the top guys the last several years on their cross country team.

1:04:00

He's ran 3010 in the 10K.

So I mean, he's, he's, he's definitely better than I ever was.

Like he's.

Pretty cool.

Super hard worker, talented kid, You know, I think you can run under 30 minutes this year for track.

You know, he's going to go to grad school next year.

1:04:18

He's not sure what's going to happen with that, if he's going to, because he does have a full year of eligibility left from red shirts.

So depending on where he goes, he might have another year in grad school running.

My middle son Skyler, also a great runner, was on the Zionsville team that got second in the state to Carmel, only lost by two points.

1:04:37

They're calling at the this.

There's a calling at the second best team ever in the state, you know, as far as like, because Carmel that year was probably the best ever.

So you know, he's ran 1630 couldn't get on mines.

His team, he's going to Colorado school of mines, which is they're the number one D2 school in the nation and cross country.

1:04:57

They're they're as good as most D1 teams.

So a 1630 guy cannot get on that team.

He still runs.

He actually ran 1630 in a, in a in a 5K road race this summer.

Super smart kid.

Like he's like.

What is he going to school for?

1:05:12

Engineering, yeah, OK.

That's what Mines is.

It's it's one of the top engineer schools.

So not Purdue.

Got to go Purdue.

He got yeah, he got into Purdue, into the engineering school Purdue.

And he'd rather definitely be out in the mountains.

My two oldest are mountain boys.

1:05:28

We just love Colorado.

My wife and I'll spend a lot of time in Colorado, like probably the rest of our lives.

You know, we'll, we'll be out there quite a bit.

My youngest is in music.

He's not sure where he's going to school yet.

He's going to study jazz music.

Piano.

So he's the one I've seen playing the piano, Yeah.

1:05:44

Is anyone else musical?

In your.

Yeah, So all of them.

Skyler's in a band He's in.

He's in a band that plays around, you know, just for a little coffee shop money around Golden area in Colorado.

He plays the saxophone.

Logan grew up playing the cello, but doesn't do it anymore.

1:06:02

Really.

Hello.

Yeah.

The cello That's that was my wife's instrument.

OK, I was like, where does that?

Yeah, so she played in high school and then one year in college.

Is the cello, is that OK?

Which one's the big one?

Is it like the medium size?

Yeah, the cello's the medium 1.

You sit in the chair.

OK, OK yeah between your legs.

1:06:18

I beautiful.

I know nothing at all about.

I like I'm the opposite of my the rest of my family music wise, but I could pick the cello out in songs like OK, like easily now because of just hearing it.

Like my wife was in a little band playing coffee shops in college.

So I mean, I would go listen to to her play sometimes.

1:06:37

And so I know I know the cello pretty well.

But you know, they all three like had run, you know, they were going with me to races, especially Logan, like he was running races when he was 7.

Yeah.

And Skyler got kind of a late start, but then he got really good really quick like in in his eighth grade year and through high school.

1:06:55

And you know, and then Aiden was, you know, got good around 8th.

Like fast.

Like they're not, I'm not saying good, I guess that's a bad term to say, but pretty fast.

Like they're all 5 minute milers in.

In middle school.

Logan ran 440 in middle school, 440 mile, which is pretty, pretty quick.

1:07:13

Aiden and Skyler ran right around 5O45O5 in middle school, but I think Aiden's later, you know, Aiden's freshman year, he just decided like, you know, he had to pick between sports and music and, and I think it was hard for him to tell me and, you know, and it was kind of emotional for both of us, I think, you know, but I fully supported him and he's, and because I said, hey, like, no matter what you do, just do it to your best ability, you know, and, and that's the route he took.

1:07:44

He still runs a couple times a week on the treadmill.

Like he could be one of those people we talked about at the age of 30.

He just.

Starts running.

Married up and then like is really good at it, but he's very talented.

He had a lot of talent running wise, you know, too.

So like like I wouldn't be surprised if like you know, you know, and when he's in his 30s, he could run 16 minute 5K or something.

1:08:08

But that's the story of the kids.

They're just super hard workers.

Like we have been very easy boys like, like Julie's like I just want to have boys because I think they're easier.

But I mean, I have no idea, you know, I.

Like I don't have the.

Experience like so?

1:08:24

I'm not sure, but they're pretty.

Less dramatic, I would hope.

Yeah, that's.

Yeah, there hasn't been a lot of drama, you know, that drama in the house, really.

So we're just hard working people like we work and.

And that's not the best way to do it.

I mean, we've missed out of a lot, like work work, work.

1:08:40

My wife works a lot too, like.

What does she?

What does Julie do?

She is the vice chancellor of Ivy Tech downtown Indy.

Yeah, OK.

So and she's done different like city planning jobs.

She was deputy mayor in Zionsville.

She was Chamber of Zionsville, chamber director in Zionsville and different things.

1:08:58

Indiana 311, a lot of different jobs.

And, you know, and everybody's kind of on everybody pick when there's a festival, everybody kind of has to pitch in at Greeks and help out.

And Yep.

And, you know, it's just kind of the family, you know, we've, I've bring brought all three of the kids up working in the restaurant.

1:09:16

I mean, Logan Skyler more than Aiden, you know, they're just, they just wanted to work a lot.

Aiden.

Aiden plays music like hours a day.

So he hasn't worked as much in the restaurant.

But my two oldest definitely have and could manage, could manage a pizza shop if they wanted to.

1:09:33

Yeah.

Yeah, that's all that is.

I mean, gosh, the way that work ethic that your parents had is now, you know, made its way to your boys and.

And my sister too, like my, my, my sister's a business owner and she's got, you know, 2 hard working kids.

And, and it's just like my parents installed this like thing like work, work, work, which isn't necessarily the best, like I said, but you know, because you miss out on some other things.

1:09:57

But, but I mean, you know, we've worked hard.

We take care of our family and our three kids have turned out pretty, pretty good, I think.

And, and I'm really proud of that.

And, you know, it's like I said, I think that's my most proud moment, like having these three kids that are smart and they're going to get college educations.

1:10:15

I, you know, they're probably all going to get master's degrees and it's a good feeling.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm lucky that my parents, well, my parents were entrepreneurs and I started working when I was 15 in a restaurant.

My first job was a Hostess.

And I've worked, you know, ever since I was 15.

1:10:34

And and they, they worked a lot, but they, they had a pretty good sense of work balance, I think.

Grow it like growing up.

I don't know.

I don't remember them being like they were obviously working really, really hard on the business, but but did a good job of of figuring out that balance.

1:10:52

Not saying that you didn't, but I just, I appreciate them showing me that at a young age.

I feel like living in this bubble that we live in, in the kind of the Carmel, Zionsville bubble.

I want them to understand kind of how you have to work to earn, you know, earn a living.

1:11:09

And it's hard here at times.

Yeah, it's tough.

And you know, and, and, and my two oldest, they have jobs.

I mean, they probably don't need to, but we didn't tell them to really like, you know, we suggested it because they I know they need to keep busy.

They're we're just the type family needs to keep busy.

But they, they've both had jobs from their freshman year on.

1:11:26

And, and I mean, Logan probably works, my oldest probably works 2530 hours a week.

You know, he takes 1718 credit hours and, and he, and he runs 7580 miles a week.

Plus he does a ton of cross training.

He's like one of those athletes that just cannot sit still.

1:11:43

You know, he's always doing something.

You know, Skyler, I think he works about 15 hours a week or so.

And he's, he's just heavy into all this engineer stuff, But he loves skiing.

He's always out skiing and stuff in the in the winter time on Colorado.

And you guys have a place out there you mentioned I saw somewhere that you have you use it to as an Airbnb property.

1:12:04

That's pretty cool.

When did you decide to do that?

When Aiden was out there?

Yeah.

So I mean, I used in college, I would go to Boulder like in the summers just to train and and I'd get a job, drive out to Boulder.

1:12:20

I had friends, I'd usually either bunk with them for a couple months and I'd get a job and you know, and then when Julie and I started dating, she came out to Boulder with me a few times to visit me and we and, and we just fell in love with Colorado.

We wanted to be in Colorado, but when we both graduated, they're just the jobs were the cost of living in Colorado.

1:12:39

I mean, it's even worse now, but it was like to be a teacher in Colorado, you couldn't even pay your rent from what you were making.

So it's like there's no way we're going to be postgraduates and just be working in Colorado.

It wasn't going to happen.

So, you know, flash forward to to, you know, now it's like we're starting to try to establish some stuff in Colorado.

1:13:03

So we bought a fixer upper, I don't know, five years ago up in the mountains, probably 30 minutes up from, from Denver Golden up in the mountains.

And I put, you know, some sweat equity in it and, and we rent it out.

It's a good Airbnb and we keep it rented and we stay there every now and then.

1:13:19

We've got kind of a same setup in Florida.

We bought a house there.

Where in Florida are you?

On Fort Myers Beach, OK, we bought it, you know, when the market was fairly low.

So we, you know, we did OK on it, but we've been through 4 hurricanes.

Yeah, we're.

Gonna bring it up.

Yeah.

1:13:34

So we've been through 4 hurricanes now and we have insurance.

So it's fine.

Like it's been fine.

Like it's, it's learning experience, like you're learning to deal health insurance companies and things like that.

But Fort Myers Beach and it's got a long way to go because it got hit hard with with Ian two years ago.

1:13:50

Like super hard.

Yeah.

And then then the last two this year was pretty tough.

But like the EN 1, you know, it'll take like 10 years for that island to be back to where it was.

But it's it's going to be, you know, I mean, that's where we want to be in retirement.

1:14:07

We want to be there in the winters, Colorado in the summers.

I'm not a big skier, so I don't really need to be in Colorado in the winter time, you know, I'd rather be in the warmth.

You know, but yeah, you've really set that up nicely.

Yeah, Yeah.

I I should have said this earlier.

I was born in Aurora, Co Yeah.

1:14:25

So my parents were out there for eight years.

I was born there.

I moved.

We moved back when I was only four.

So I don't have a lot of memories, but we would.

We would go back out.

I I miss the West.

We really haven't taken our girls.

We need to.

Yeah, I don't.

Think my kids are going to leave the West, especially Logan.

1:14:41

He's he'll be in the mountains.

Yeah.

And, you know, that's I'm will probably and, you know, I'm going to be with Greeks for a very long time, I think, you know, but but I mean, I think my wife will be moving that direction and, you know, I'll probably be on a plane a lot, flying back and forth type thing.

1:14:57

Yeah.

But I mean, we'll keep a house in Zionsville, I assume.

And, you know, and, and just kind of do the three state thing.

I think Aiden might end up being in college here in Indiana.

OK, yeah, what's where, where is?

He, well, you know, he's, he just visited Miami, FL music school.

1:15:16

Say I went to Miami, Ohio, but.

And, and Ball State really wants him bad IU.

He's looking at Berkeley out in Boston.

So it'll end up probably being IU or Ball State.

I assume Ball State has a great jazz professor, a great jazz program and that's where he wants to, he wants to do jazz so and then possibly get a teaching music teaching degree with it.

1:15:39

So Ball State teaching school is is the best.

Yeah.

So the other topic I wanted to ask you about was the accident where you were hit while you were running.

I almost forgot.

Because yeah, how couldn't like just, yeah, yeah, weave that in there.

1:15:56

Like when?

And how did that happen?

It was about 2 1/2 years ago, I was doing a tempo run in my neighborhood on a Friday and guy just came out of cul-de-sac, ran the stoplight or stop sign, never stopped, admitted to it and and just nailed me.

1:16:12

I didn't see him until he was literally a foot in front of me and.

Oh my God, what kind of car?

It was a van.

Ironically, my son came along.

I was sitting in the middle of the road, like laying there bleeding, and my son came along about a minute later.

1:16:28

He was doing the workout of his own, so he was kind of there, which is awful.

Awful.

Yeah.

To.

See your dad.

Like that?

Awful.

But you were conscious?

Yeah, sitting.

Up but then the guy's wife came out tried to bandage me up.

It was just a kind of big mess and it still is really.

1:16:45

But I did you know, I've been I took four months off of running.

I kept trying to run, of course, like I'm this hard work, like I'm going to run through it like trying to and just so much pain like like lower back and like caused a sports hernia kind of.

1:17:01

I think the lower back was favoring like the hernia area and caused a sports hernias and then I ended up having to take four months off of running.

I rehabbed through tempo sports rehab.

Jacob Crow's been great, and caramel he.

You should get him on your podcast.

1:17:16

I know he is on my list.

I don't know if he listens to this, but he is mentioned a lot.

Yeah, he's.

Great got, I mean got me back decently.

I've never, I'll tell you this, I've never had a day since the accident where I haven't felt something And it definitely it cooked me as far as my speed, like I was a 16 minute 5K or still then there's no way I'll ever run a 16 minute 5K again.

1:17:41

So it did away with that.

It set me way back.

It aged me, I guess, like it aged me maybe five years as far as a runner at least, But as far as even a worker, because I can't, I can't do the things that Greeks like I used to, right?

Like I have to have my employees like lift things for me.

1:17:56

And that's kind of, you know, like I can't, I can't do any of that.

And I've had the back down on work and stuff.

So I've just learned to kind of like deal with it because what, what can we do?

Do we just stop running?

You just you can't, it's what you love to do.

You just can't stop right doing it, you know?

1:18:12

Well, it sounds like you you've found other ways to enjoy it.

Yeah, so I'm just, I did the slower thing this year with these marathons and like that type of running doesn't hurt me as bad as like it's the raw speed work, like, you know, trying to grind like.

So let's see what happens next year when I'm trying to get back into speed work and stuff like that.

1:18:31

I have no idea what's going to happen.

Yeah, so do you, do you know the guy that hit you then?

Because no, not really.

I mean, not really that.

'D be crazy.

But I, I, I didn't go by there anymore for a while that area because only a quarter mile from my house, I'd go the different the other direction.

1:18:48

Yeah, I've had actually, well, as we record this, this week's episode, it's the week of what is today, the 10th, 11th.

But yeah, another woman got hit by a car.

It just seems like AI mean it happens all the time.

They're not looking.

They're on their phone, he said.

1:19:04

I was in a hurry to get my daughter to school.

I'm so sorry.

Like, oh.

His daughter was in the car.

Yeah.

Oh God.

Yeah.

And then, you know, like at the front of my neighborhood, there's a stop sign on the crosswalk and, and everybody blows through there and I've, I've messed with people there.

I'm I I see them coming and I.

1:19:21

Kind of kind.

Of like and I point at the stop sign and stuff.

So I'm trying to educate people.

Some of them are on their phones.

Yeah, I mean that's, it's really frustrating.

And that worries me as as a father, yeah.

So I'm glad.

And that's one reason we picked where we were going to live because there's a, you know, the the Zionsville rail trails are half mile from our house and and, you know, we can get on there fairly easily and not have to be on the roads much at all.

1:19:45

But I don't run them other than getting through my neighborhood.

I don't run on the roads like I used to at all, especially, I mean, our area has grown so much.

I used to do these like country loops, you know, all the time.

But those country loops now are like have cars going 60-70 miles an hour on them.

Yeah, yeah, I had a friend from high school last month get, I mean essentially run over by a car while he was running, but it was on, it was on a country Rd. out by where he lived.

1:20:09

And come to find out he was on the wrong, he was on the wrong side.

So he was running with traffic instead of against, which I'm like, what?

And it was dark too.

So like Add all those things like it's hard enough with distracted drivers, like speeding in the daytime.

But it's just, it's so oh.

1:20:25

Yeah, well, we, you know, we skimmed through my high school days.

But my my sophomore year in high school, my uncle was running and got killed by a car while he's running in the dark.

But he was in a park, 20 mile an hour zone and park.

He was on the trail alongside the road.

1:20:45

He had headphones on in the dark.

It was dark.

He was running and a car load of 16 year olds were going 110 miles an hour in the park. 110 I can't even.

They missed the turn and instead of there being a tree there that they hit and they all.

1:21:02

Get killed.

My uncle was there and got drug 400 feet.

I mean getting hit it I can't even I.

Yeah, so that I can't.

Even imagine 110 miles an hour.

That likes.

But at least the blessing of that knowing that he, like, probably had no idea.

Well, my aunt couldn't even she had the clothes were the only way that she.

1:21:21

Could that's I can't.

And it was, I mean, that changed her family.

That changed me as a runner, too.

I, I do for a long time I was like, that's what made me like a good runner because I was, I just, that was late my sophomore year and I would like, remember I said my junior years when I kind of turned like, and I think it just helped me.

1:21:40

I stopped screwing around in school.

I became a better student and I'm like, I'm going to work as hard as I can.

I'm not going to.

There's all this more important stuff in life.

You know.

And you learned.

That at a young age it.

Helped me like propelled me into like college and then life like it aged me like OK, well.

1:22:00

Yeah, that can happen, right?

We think you're invincible when you're a.

Sophomore, my aunt is still affected to this day and we're looking back, I mean, how many?

I mean, 3030, I don't know, 35, yeah, 3533 years or something ago and.

1:22:16

Yeah, geez.

And he had two little kids.

One was three years, one was three months.

Yeah, my, my cousin's awful.

So yeah, I mean it's but you know, and I have a teammate who's now on our team that got hit by bike like or got hit while he's on his bike like 3 years ago and he was a mess for years and he's finally back to full like.

1:22:40

But it's just, you never know.

You never know, I feel like cycling is a whole nother.

I mean, even more dangerous.

That's why after two years I got in so many bike racks and races that I'm like, I'm going to die on a bicycle.

I need to go back to running.

1:22:56

And I did.

I got back, I got I was in Durango, Co sending down the mountains in a, in a, in a road race and there was like a forty person pile up.

It was pouring down rain.

We hit railroad tracks and somebody got there tire caught in the track and like 40 of us went down and they're life lining people out and jeez, yeah, my knee was swelled.

1:23:16

They put me on another bike and pushed me off because it was like a championship collegiate race and my knee was swelled up like and I was, I was still in the race.

Like I went another 3 miles and I looked down my knee and it's swelled up like a like a softball and I just full off the side of the road and and get a ride back and, and I real I never raced again.

1:23:36

That was it.

Yeah, you're like, OK, that's.

That was it.

I went back to running and here we are like.

Yeah.

Well, before I ask you the end of the podcast questions, which I can't believe we're close to the end, I how, what is your tally in terms of the number of marathons that you have run?

1:23:55

I have not done a lot of marathons like I was always like this 5K, like 10K half marathon.

I always, I always thought like the 10 mile distance was my perfect distance.

You know, marathons I, I up until this year of running quote UN quote easier marathons.

1:24:12

I hit the wall in every single marathon, every single every single marathon.

I, I would hit the wall at 20 miles.

I don't think now looking back, I didn't think I trained right and did some things right.

There's a couple times in my life I was, I was fit enough, I think to run like low two 20s, you know, something pretty, pretty, very good at that time, like almost Olympic trials qualifying, I think Olympic trials qualifying with 2/22 at one time.

1:24:35

And in my mind, I thought I could do that, but I got sick once getting right right before Chicago.

I got hurt once right before Chicago Marathon one year.

So two years in a row that happened.

I was probably in the fittest shape of my life.

But I, I think I've, you know, I've only ran, I ran Boston once.

1:24:51

I think I only ran 4-5 marathons before this, before this, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'd run one every couple years.

I mean, cuz it run a marathon and doing it like that, like that was like you, you have to devote a half a year to it.

And I didn't want to devote a half a year when there's all these other races.

1:25:10

And I yeah, I always liked all these little tiny, like these little like small town 5 KS I loved and you know, all these 10 KS around and different things like that.

So I would never devote typically a full build to a marathon.

1:25:26

Gotcha.

You know, and a couple times, you know, I would have ran more, but it just didn't play out.

Like, I think I've probably completed 5 marathons before this year in my entire life of running, but I probably trained for like 9, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

1:25:42

But OK.

I ran 231 several times.

Always, always tank in the last 10K.

Like like the story of everybody.

Like I don't think nutrition, like I didn't know anything about nutrition back then.

I think it's so important now.

The gels and everything, the right gels, half marathons, I mean, several a year probably.

1:26:03

I always loved, I always loved the indie mini.

You know, I love going around that track.

You know, one year I raced with MEB when he was retired, but he was, he still ran like 1-10 that year.

But we are both turning like 44.

And we chatted for, we chatted for the entire like a race run side by side.

1:26:21

And he posted a picture of me after the race at the finish line and and and that was pretty neat.

That's.

So cool that experience.

Yeah, I've had a couple of Heat coaches now.

I have a couple of his athletes that have been on this podcast.

I almost forgot to ask you about two other things, actually.

1:26:36

Now that we talked about nutrition, your whole family is vegan except for you.

Yeah, so I mean, I'm, I'm almost vegan, but not really my, the other four of my family are very strict vegans, you know, So I mean, obviously you can run at the top.

Logan's a very top quality runner.

He's been vegan for, I mean, I don't know, 5-6 years?

1:26:57

And he's your dad owns like pizza.

Places I know it's tough.

No, it's really like goodness, great.

It's really stupid.

If you think about like we're in the business of selling cheese, right.

So, you know, I'll dabble and I'll still every once a month I'll have a bag with cream cheese or but I don't eat.

1:27:13

I mean, my stomach, for me it was like a stomach thing for them, it's like, you know, they don't want, it's the animal thing and OK and stuff like that.

But for me it was like my, I kept having these stomach issues and like the cheese was just getting to me.

So yeah, chopping dairy like really solve, solve that issue for me stomach wise.

1:27:33

But I mean, I'll still dabble in a little bit.

I'll fish maybe once every couple weeks.

OK.

I'm never going to give up fish.

I don't think, you know, planning on living in Florida.

I mean, how can I not eat fish?

What's your favorite fish to eat?

Probably Sam.

I mean, do a lot of salmon, you know, it just depends on how it's prepared.

1:27:51

Yeah, but but yeah, they're vegan and they're very healthy.

And there you go.

Yeah, I don't know.

Who knows?

You gotta get the right proteins and.

It's a lot easier, I'm sure.

Well, two of them being in Colorado.

At least Julie loves to cook and she cooks great stuff.

And I mean, there's meat substitutes now.

1:28:07

We had burgers last night and they're just.

Impossible Burgers.

Yeah, they're to me.

They're, Yeah, they're to me.

They're just like any other burger.

Yeah, yeah, they're pretty good.

I would agree with that.

The other thing, I can't believe I forgot this.

Mike, you founded.

You and Julie founded the Zionsville Half Marathon.

We did.

Which was funny because I was like, hey, Mike, you're going to be at the Zionsville and you're like, actually that's like my race.

1:28:26

I yeah, I had no idea.

Yeah, so, you know, I've dabbled in through the years like putting on races, like we found the Angle Half Marathon back in the day and then moving to Zionsville, there wasn't a whole lot of races.

So like I think eight or nine years ago, we probably 9 years ago, we started the Zionsville half Marathon and 5K and then I added like the Big Boom 5K, which was a 4th of July thing.

1:28:55

And we did really well with that.

And we did like a Zionsville 10 mile or at Zionsville 10K.

So we, we, we did some races.

I ended up getting into race directing a little bit like a side business.

Had a trail trailer and and finish line gear and 300 cones and signs and different.

1:29:14

It just was so much like work and it was great.

I mean, we would start and finish was right in front of Greeks on most of the races.

So we'd have registration inside the restaurant and I think people love that.

Like being starting to finish on the bricks was that.

Is that is.

1:29:29

Cool.

Especially that 5K because it's 4th of July, small town.

You run a 5K pizza after the race.

There's always pizza after the race at the finish line.

But it was a lot of work, especially when you're in restaurant business too.

And then you're OK.

You do this race and then then you have to start your real job the rest of the day too.

1:29:49

And I'm setting up cones.

Logan and I are putting setting up the course at 3:00 AM in the morning.

We don't get the everything cleared till 11 and then you have to start your regular work day after that and.

It's the weekend.

And that is yeah.

Well, and then COVID hit and then right, just like you start reevaluating everything.

1:30:07

Is it worth it?

My wife was like, oh, I'm pretty much done with it.

Like, yeah, that's hard, you know, but and then so Tuxedo Brothers took the they didn't take the the five.

They didn't take the the 4th of the 4th of July race, but they took the half marathon and they've done great with it.

1:30:23

They've built it to where I thought it would be.

I never hit over.

I never hit over 1000 runners.

I think they had 1100 this year.

Yeah.

OK.

I think my best was probably 7700.

Yeah, You know, and, and I think it, you know, it could grow to 2000 or more, but it's just like it's a small race, you know, it's a small hometown race.

1:30:44

So once they get up to that 2000 range, they're probably going to have to logistically figure out like another course and.

Stuff for sure, yeah.

Yeah.

Cuz it, especially with the rail trail now this year being a big part of it.

I did it for the first time last year and really loved it.

1:31:00

Yeah.

And then this year after I did the full marathon at Monumental, I thought my husband would kill me if I signed up to run the Zionsville half.

So I ended up just taking our girls out and spectating.

Yeah, and I was out there jogging around like I I came in and out with Guyer a little bit and he was pacing some people.

Yeah, I saw them out there and yeah, yeah.

1:31:17

So that's so cool.

I had no idea.

So.

So yeah, we don't.

I used to coach privately.

I used to do the race directing.

It was just too much.

Yeah, right.

Well, what I've learned in being part of Monumental is there's just so many things.

So many things like all these little details that as a runner you wouldn't necessarily think about until it's like your job to do it.

1:31:39

And then you're like, Oh yeah, all the things.

So that's.

Really like always making sure you had enough water everywhere or making sure you're how can you make, how do you, how you can't force somebody to wake up in time to be, you know, like, so you've got to like rely on people to.

1:31:56

Wake up, you have your volunteers.

Like actually.

Your volunteers just show up, Yeah.

So which, yeah, even at Monumental they have.

I mean, yeah, tough, tough.

And that's, yeah, monumental is just thousand times.

Bigger.

Than anything I've ever done.

Yeah, it's really cool.

Well, thanks for starting that race because I've gotten to enjoy it and hopefully we'll get to.

1:32:15

Enjoy it.

Hopefully Tuxedo Brothers keeps it going.

Yeah, it can continue to grow.

It's great for the community.

It is.

How does Zionsville not have a running club?

Well.

Why don't you start that?

Come on.

I've, I've probably more than you, you know, like I've, I've, I've brought it up several times.

1:32:33

I I do run the Zionsville Runners Facebook page I've ran.

That for 5 or 6.

Years, there's probably 3-4 hundred people on it.

Most of the time I spend declining people cuz it's AI or whatever.

Yeah, so and every now and then one will sneak by and then they'll start trying to sell duck cleaning or something.

1:32:52

Or like the Ray Bans.

Yeah, I have to delete them.

But but you know, every once a year it gets brought up by 1 of the members and I'm like, you do it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm like I, I go anytime I'll be involved.

I just, I can't be, I can't be the president or I can't be an officer.

1:33:08

But I said you'll have a meeting space.

Greeks has a party room.

There you go.

We could do Tuesday night runs out of there and then have a meeting afterwards or whatever.

I can organize that and I and, and honestly, I was talking to one or two people about a month ago and I said, let's get through the holidays and I said, hit me back up at January, February and let's talk about it again.

1:33:28

Let's bring it up again.

Because if we do the running club, I mean, there's more to it than you think.

Like if you want to be our RCA or RCA or whatever, the Road Runners and you have to be like insured and there's different things like.

That and you got to worry about.

Insurance and everything.

1:33:46

So I mean the insurance thing always kind of like looms in the back of my mind on stuff sometimes too.

Like even as a race director I always made sure I pulled the one day insurance and things like that.

But but you start doing running clubs and something happens well and somebody's going to be liable.

1:34:01

Right.

And you're like, I cannot be the.

I do not want to be the person that is responsible.

Yeah.

So there's always little things that people don't think.

About man.

In the back of your mind.

Yeah, Right now.

I'm like, well, yeah, OK.

Why isn't somebody started it?

Well, because it's not as.

Easy, but I think it will happen.

It has to, Zionsville continues.

1:34:16

Just to grow.

I mean, Westfield has one Fisher.

Yeah, I just interviewed Gabby Baer, who's the president of Carmel Running Club, and she she's like, yeah, now we just, you know, anybody in Zionsville, they just kind of come over to Carmel and it's like, how is there now with the rail trail expansion?

I know I'd love to show up with a race tent and yeah.

1:34:34

Here you go.

OK, people from Zionsville.

Listening.

Hang out right here and here we go.

Yeah, yeah.

OK.

I could talk to you all day, Mike.

All right, I got to ask you.

I got to ask you that at the podcast questions.

So what is your favorite running song and or mantra?

I'm assuming you're not a music running guy.

1:34:51

No, no, but honestly, in the last couple of months or the last couple of years, I, I did buy some shocks and about once a week I'll, I'll listen to music.

I never, you know, I don't turn it on until I get on the trail and I turn it off when I get off the trail like there.

You go?

Yeah.

But I mean, you know, I'm so old school, like, I mean, I, I found myself over the last year, like especially since the accident, like Neil Young old the old man song, like old man song, old man.

1:35:19

Look at me, you know, like just, you know, as I'm getting older, but I, I mean, and I still listen to a lot of like 90s stuff, Counting Crows and things like that.

And we, you know, we've got like some like European type stuff like The Cure or The Smiths, Morrissey, you know, the Water Boys stuff.

1:35:39

I mean, just different things like, like that.

But but not, yeah, definitely not a big huge music person.

Yeah.

I'm the only one in the family that's not right.

And what about mantra?

Like there's stuff you tell yourself.

1:35:58

It's, you know, I mean, not really.

I mean, I would, I would go into most races like, and I, you know, every every day, like before a race, 10 minutes for a race, I would put my, you know, I'd change my shoes and I'd, I'd finish my stretching, I'd lay on, I'd lay down next to my car.

1:36:17

You know, not huge races because you can't do that.

You're in a parking lot or something and I just kind of like meditate for two minutes on my back and just think about the whole race and, and tell myself, you know, like you got to relax early on.

1:36:34

You've got to, you know, push hard in the middle, you've got to finish fast, you know, and stuff like that.

But you know, that's, I mean, that's that's about the best way I can like the only thing I really do as far as visualization and things like that.

But going back to like, you know, just everyday running, you know, and we didn't talk about this like, but that's been my meditation for 30 some years.

1:36:56

Like, you know, I don't, I don't hire architects to build my stores.

I never have once you know, it's it's all been all these restaurants I've built has been in my head during runs.

Like I've, I've built, I've, I've remodeled all my houses, daydreaming in my, during my runs.

1:37:13

I've built every restaurant daydreaming while I'm running, you know, because I mean, 95% of my runs in my entire life have been by myself.

So it's just me and my brain, you know, And it's from from mile one to mile 10 during this run.

1:37:28

It's like I'm constructing this whole restaurant.

Or like today it was, I'm visually, I'm visualizing my race from mile one to mile 26 for this weekend.

That's what I did today kind of and it and I don't plan to do that.

1:37:44

It's just I start running and it's like, OK, what am I going to Daydream about today?

And and it goes by so fast.

So I like I daydreamed about how I was going to feel like what am I going to feel like at mile 20 on on Sunday this week?

And and you know, I want to I want to finish strong.

1:38:01

You know, you no matter where I'm at, you know, this is my last race of the year.

So OK, I can I can maybe try to go after the last five KA little harder than I did.

I had a lot left at monumental.

I probably could have ran another minute faster, but I want to save it for this coming weekend.

1:38:17

But you know, I mean, so that's, that's it really.

Yeah, that's, well, I mean, it's great advice for people who are like looking for just ways to think about getting through some of that.

I think visualization is really interesting.

I think I've done it without really calling it that.

1:38:34

I never really knew, but that was truly a thing that, you know, helped, like visualize yourself like crossing the finish line or like when it gets tough, how are you going to just push through that?

And even I'm visualizing Logan's races as a college runner, like I'm visualizing how how his races are going to play out.

1:38:51

Or, you know, there's, it's, it's either, it's either his races, my races or my restaurants, building restaurants like the Airbnb's and stuff.

Like what do I have to do?

Like it's, it's like I use, I use that hour of running as like free, like work time and like brain planning things.

1:39:12

And that's, you know, and then the rest of the day I'm ready to go because I know exactly what, you know, what I need to do so.

I just need an app that can like, read my thoughts and like, put it in note form because I will, yeah, I will run and I'll be like all these great ideas and then I'll get back and I'll be like, what was that?

1:39:29

What did I think of?

It was so brilliant.

And then I forget.

Well, and I was also thinking about this the last two days a little bit like, yeah.

Right.

Like, hey, what do I want to share?

Like, yeah, what is?

She gonna ask?

Me.

Yeah.

Well, hopefully it hasn't been too painful.

No, it's been.

1:39:44

Great.

Well, and then your next finish line or milestone is clearly coming right up.

So you're driving down?

Yeah, to Alabama.

It's about 6 hour drive drive Saturday.

I think I've got until 6:00 in my packet.

I'll probably leave at like 10:00 AM.

I tried to get there round four.

I got a hotel on the starting line and and that's.

1:40:02

The way to do it, yeah.

How big of a race is that?

It's like 2000 marathoners.

I think it's sold out.

They want they they cap it because there's like there's four races at the same time, 5K10K half.

All of them, OK.

So they cap, I think the marathon at 2000.

1:40:17

It's a smaller race in that aspect.

It'll be hard, a lot harder than Monumental.

Like I said, I thought Monumental was so easy because it was just people everywhere.

Yeah, this will be a little tougher.

I mean, if I run, if I run what I did at Monumental, I'll probably be top ten.

I'll probably be 10th, something like that.

So that's definitely gonna be harder, I think, to be alone, like possibly be alone.

1:40:38

Yeah.

And so you're driving then from Fort Myers, I'm assuming six hours?

No, OK, I'll drive.

It is.

Huntsville is only six hours and 15 minutes from here.

No, it's not.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh see, here I am picturing like I don't know anything about Alabama, I guess.

1:40:53

Now, when I when we were in Huntsville the first time, then then we thought, oh, let's swing down and see my parents down in Florida.

And that was like another 14.

Hours or something.

OK, All right.

Well, I don't feel as well.

I feel kind of dumb, but yeah.

It's not as far as you think.

Yeah.

It's really yeah.

1:41:08

You get through Kentucky, Tennessee, and it's like right here, OK?

Remember Kentucky and Tennessee?

Are so narrow yeah yeah cuz Nashville's what like 5 from here ish.

But I think you're going a different direction.

I need to look at a map.

Well, but I did check it two or three times.

It's just a little over six hours.

1:41:24

Well, that's yeah, that's not so bad.

OK, well.

I plan to be back by like 5 or 6:00 at night on Sunday, right?

OK, to see my kids and my family and everything.

And celebrate.

Celebrate a little bit and then start thinking about next year.

Right.

Exactly.

Gosh.

Never stops.

1:41:40

Never stops.

Well, it's been so fun getting to know you, Mike.

Thank you for spending this time with me.

I had a great time.

Yeah, me too.

And thanks to everybody who listened and happy running.

We did it.

All right, that's a wrap on 2024.

If you enjoyed this Sandy Boy Productions podcast, please share, rate and review, and can't wait to share more stories next year

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