Finish Lines & Milestones: Episode 94

February 7, 2025

Here's a link to listen to this week's episode.

Guest: Dena Lewis @getrunningmate

Show Notes:

Dena Lewis⁠ is an avid endurance athlete despite not lacing up her running shoes until later in life.

**This episode does talk about assault and may be triggering for some.**

During this episode, sponsored by ⁠Barilla Protein + Pasta⁠ and ⁠Athlete Bouquets,⁠ we talk about:

The fact that she runs 10-12 miles a day, 6 days a week
The SNOW they got on the beach in the Florida panhandle and what that was like
How she didn’t become a serious runner until later in life - about 21 years ago
The non-traditional sports her kids chose
Some of the races she’s done - a Ragnar in Hawaii, a triathlon after an encounter with a GREAT WHITE SHARK, Key West bridge run, her Thanksgiving Day tradition, Disney races, Rock ‘N’ Roll
Her career in medical device sales, as a stay at home mom, and a 4X entrepreneur
The not one, but two times she’s been assaulted while running and the story behind ⁠Running Mate⁠, “Uber for runners” created to keep women runners safe

This is a ⁠SandyBoy Productions⁠ podcast.

Episode Transcript

0:00

This is a Sandy Boy Productions podcast.

Welcome to Finish Lines and Milestones, a podcast that celebrates the everyday runner.

I'm your host, Ali Brettnacher.

Whether you're a season marathoner, half marathoner, ultra marathoner, prefer shorter distances or just getting started, if you run, you are a runner.

0:22

And every runner has a story.

Join me each week as I share these stories and we cross finish lines and celebrate milestones together.

This episode is brought to you by Barilla Protein Plus Pasta.

Barilla wants to help you stay active this winter with its great tasting protein Plus pasta.

0:40

I don't know if you know this about me, but I am 1/4 Italian and my family actually used to have a sauce cook off every summer.

The matalone family sauce cook off and so pasta is near and dear to my heart and over this holiday break I had my mom pick up some Barilla protein plus pasta when we had sauce with my aunt who won the sauce cook off the most.

1:01

The additional protein comes from lentils, pea protein and chickpeas, which actually makes it a great source of fiber as well.

And everybody loved it.

My picky kids, my meat and potatoes husband who doesn't like to try anything different.

Everyone said it tasted great.

1:17

It's the pasta taste you love with the energy you want.

And Lord knows we all needed extra energy to power through the holiday break.

So why not grab the yellow Barilla box of pasta when you're at the grocery to get a little bit more protein and additional energy?

Especially as someone who is a runner, adding additional protein into my diet is always great, so it's the perfect way to do that.

1:38

And Speaking of running, as we often do on this podcast, put your energy to the test and take on Barilla's Protein Plus Pasta's Winter Energy Challenge this February on the Strava Fitness app It's free.

All you need to do is complete 10 days of movement for your Barilla Protein Plus pasta.

1:55

Reward terms and conditions apply.

And thank you Barilla Protein Plus for supporting this podcast.

Hello, and welcome to episode 94.

This is Ali.

Man.

This week in Indiana, we got a taste of spring.

2:12

It was one day, one day only, but it was amazing.

It was almost 70°, which is kind of nuts.

And then of course, it immediately went right back to winter.

But just getting a taste of the spring and the sun and being able to run outside and have my kids be outside, it was just what I needed.

2:32

So even though it's cold again now, I know that spring is coming.

And it's funny because this week's guest is from Florida.

And while immediately we'd all be jealous, those of us who are in the Midwest, she actually recently experienced snow in Florida, 7 inches.

2:48

So we do talk about that experience and what that was like for her as somebody who rarely sees snow.

And I am so grateful that I was introduced to Dina Lewis by my friend Margaret Winager, who I looked back, Margaret was the first remote guest I ever interviewed on this podcast, and it was my seventh episode.

3:07

So if you want to get to know my friend Margaret, go back, listen to that.

She's amazing, She is an incredible connector and I'm so grateful that she connected me with Dina.

Dina's story does talk about assault, so fair warning there.

I want to give indie folks a quick heads up that my friend Christy D this blonde runs.

3:27

She is hosting a runner safety seminar and demonstration on Sunday, February 16th at Athletic Annex in Clay Terrace and that will be starting doors open at 5:15 PM.

They'll be drinks, snacks, giveaways, raffle and a demonstration by Adamson's Karate.

3:46

So I think listening to this episode is also going to give you some additional information on how to stay safe while running and not just limited to women, certainly, because as you'll hear Dina talk about, a lot of what she does today with her company Running Mate is educate men as well.

4:04

So I really enjoyed getting a chance to meet Dina.

I'm really inspired by what she's doing with her company and app, Running Mate, and you will hear all about it during this episode.

So be sure to share that app with people who might be in the cities they've launched or if you want to bring it here to Indy or other cities in the Midwest, they have open the app up to download no matter where you are.

4:27

And that'll kind of show them where they need to consider launching next.

So anyway, I hope you enjoy this conversation with Dina Lewis.

Hi, Dina.

Happy Friday.

Hi, Happy Friday.

Thank you so much for joining and I am so thrilled to meet you.

4:43

I'm so glad that Margaret Winegar introduced us.

And how did you meet Margaret?

So we were connected just through Atlanta connections and all the I was one of the, I was one of the social impact companies for Techstars last year.

And so we had a lot of mutual connections who thought the two of you need to to chat.

5:00

And so we had a conversation and then she connected me to you.

There we go.

She's such a great connector.

She really is.

She's amazing.

Amazing.

I've only had the opportunity to meet her in person one time, but we have stayed in touch.

We did throughout COVID for, you know, quite a bit of Zoom meetings.

5:17

And yeah, she's just wonderful.

So thank you, Margaret, for connecting us if you listen to this.

And yeah, again, thanks for being here, Dina.

So I can't wait to to dig into your whole story.

One of the things I find very impressive is that currently you're running your day-to-day running activities are pretty impressive.

5:38

So just start off the bat by telling people what you do every day.

Yeah, so I'm going to put a disclaimer in here because I can't tell you how many running coaches have listened to either podcasts or interviews that I've done and, and literally reach out and say you're crazy.

5:56

You, you are.

This is you're doing this all wrong, but no, I, I do I run six days a week.

I run between 10 and 12 miles a day For me, it's my stress relief.

It's my time to myself, which, you know, I should not say that one here I am developing an app to bring people together, but you know, it is my stress relief.

6:14

It's when I am able to kind of get away from the rat race of the day-to-day.

This is when ideas come to me.

This is when strategies come to me and it's just really that empowering time that I have that no one else, you know, is in that space with me that I enjoy.

6:31

And so 11:50 is, is about what I do.

Like I said, six days a week, Sundays are normally my only days off.

Sometimes it's a Friday.

It just really depends on what life throws my way.

But I do try to get the 11:50 in as much as I can every every.

6:47

Week, it's amazing.

So and you're a very early morning runner and you're in Florida.

What part of Florida?

Are you located in the Panhandle of Florida?

So no North Florida.

So you got snow?

We did we actually and this was like big boy snow.

This was not, you know, little drizzle people in Florida think they got snow.

7:06

These were big flakes with powder.

I've got pictures, videos.

So we had our 2025 strategy session last week in in Florida, where I live, and I brought my my team in and we took a whole afternoon and just went out and played in the snow because it this never happens at the last time this happened when I was here was like over 30 years ago.

7:26

It's crazy.

Yeah, Yeah.

To see snow on the beach is crazy.

Yeah, wild.

Yeah.

And of course, Taylor Swift has a song called Snow on the Beach, which is one of the first things I thought of seeing those pictures.

I was like, yeah, it's so wild.

So weird to see pictures of that and playing in the snow.

7:44

Did you even have do you even have like a winter coat to like to play?

Leave it or not, I do.

And my director of marketing, she was taking videos.

She's like just run on the beach, just take off running.

And I had on this big white long, you know, like parka with the hood with the fur around it.

8:03

And I had on these big like heavy pants and I took off running and she's laughing so hard in the video.

She's she's laughing.

You can hear.

I could hear from where I was.

She's like, you look like the Abominable Snowman.

OK, that's so funny.

I might need you to send me that video because.

8:19

It's I will.

I'll share it with you.

Very entertaining.

We had a good time.

It was good team building.

You know, we built snowmen and snow angels and yeah, we thought our sand was fight.

So up here in the Panhandle were in the Gulf, well, I guess now we call it the Gulf of America, I don't know Gulf of America.

8:37

And so we've got we're known for that sugar white sand and it is really white and beautiful, but you don't realize how off white it is until you actually have snow sitting on it.

So.

So weird.

Well, I don't know if I told you where I was located or if Margaret did, but I'm in Indiana.

8:55

So snow is normal for us, certainly during during the winter.

And although today it's like 50°, which is a nice touch of spring weather, and our snow might finally be gone, but I just think that's so wild.

You being in Florida, actually got to experience snow this winter.

9:11

Yeah.

It's crazy.

We had 7 inches.

That's insane.

It was all said and done.

We had 7 inches.

Yeah, it was like a did.

You leave your house.

No, because there's no you couldn't you know, we're iced over and we have no equipment or anything to be able to de ice.

And so even just going for a walk, you know, you're navigating 'cause it snowed and then it froze, and then it rained and and froze again.

9:32

So we had snow, ice, ice.

Yeah.

So.

That's crazy.

That is wild.

So Dina, are you originally from Florida?

Have you been there all your life?

I'm originally from Georgia, and so South Georgia is home for me.

Florida is really what we consider home because Florida is where my kids were born.

9:51

So even though I have life before kids, I think home is, you know, home is where you make it.

But we've lived all over.

We've moved, we've lived in California, we've lived in Texas, we've lived in Georgia twice, we've lived in Texas twice and we moved back to Florida in 2021.

10:09

Both my kids are in college now, so one's in Texas, one's in Florida.

But yeah, we moved back in 2021.

One for the company to be able to be here in Florida and have a business that year round, I can rely on the market.

But then also both of our families are really close by and so we can go see our parents, both of us, anytime we want, which is really nice.

10:33

Yes.

So nice.

Yeah, so nice.

Have you always been a runner?

So I didn't actually start running until later in life.

I mean, in college I was active, did a lot of stuff in college, worked out things like that.

But I didn't become a serious runner until about 20 years ago. 21 really, because my son is now turning 21 this weekend.

10:56

And I think that's where, yeah, it's crazy.

I can't believe he's turning 21.

I feel old.

But I think that's where life really took a turn for me was.

I had done a lot of things up to that point.

Like even when I was pregnant with both of my kids, I was doing some running and swimming.

11:12

But I took it to the next level after they were born.

And they're only 13 months apart in age.

And so for me, running really became mental health, which I, I sometimes don't think people realize just what good it does do for your mental health.

11:28

But it became even more critical after they were born because I was able to put them in a, in a stroller and give them some Cheerios.

And again, I was with them and they could have been screaming and crying and, and fighting, but that was my time.

And so I was with my kids, but I was still doing something for me.

11:46

And so we, we all benefited from it.

And also them being babies and seeing me do that from the beginning, it just has it set both of them up, I think, for really good patterns in life because I have a son who ended up going off and racing motocross professionally.

12:02

And then my daughter actually plays beach volleyball in college.

So they're both very active, and I attribute a lot of that to them seeing me be active when they were little.

Motocross Professionally.

I know it's.

Crazy in the beach volleyball, both of those things I know it's.

Really interesting.

They didn't go with anything traditional.

12:18

They had to go way off, you know, the other end of the spectrum.

Yeah.

Did you play any sports when you were younger?

I mean, I did, you know, soccer and and some of that usual stuff when I was younger, but not beach volleyball.

I'm five one on a good day and my daughter is like 6 feet.

12:35

She takes after my husband.

Both my kids do, thankfully.

So she was blessed with being able to play a sport that I could have never even, you know, probably considered.

Wow and motocross.

Like where does that take him in?

In the world or the country?

Yeah, so when he so he started riding.

12:52

My husband grew up on bikes and so my son was always around them as a baby.

And at the age of five, I gave in and allowed my husband to buy my son his first little dirt bike, which was a little 85.

And we've got video of him in this field next to the house we lived in.

13:12

And he just used to run laps in this field.

And then we were in California at the time.

It's really big out there.

Plus there are so many places that you can ride.

And so for on the weekends, my husband and my son would go off to Pismo Beach or the Mojave Desert or just somewhere and he would be on his little bike.

13:32

My husband would be on his and they would trail ride.

And from there, it just kind of took off.

He became, he loved it.

He did go through a video game phase, but as he got older, right around 13, he was realizing that he really missed being on a bike.

13:49

And for us it was a blessing because it got him out of the house and away from the video games.

And we were living in Texas at the time, and he was just really good.

He was a really good rider and he won some pretty big races.

And from there it just kind of branched into him going off.

14:05

He lived at a a training facility full time at the age of 15.

So that means he left home.

Yeah.

And he trained and traveled all over the country and, and did his thing.

But that was his dream.

And so he chased that dream.

He's in college now.

He does ride a little bit recreationally, but he doesn't compete or anything like that anymore.

14:24

OK wow, that's wild.

How cool.

Yeah.

So is he a little bit traditional family?

Not at all.

Not even close.

Which is great.

So he OK.

And he's turning 21 this weekend.

Yeah.

So is he, did he take a like a little bit of a different path when it came to college?

14:42

Is he a little bit older in college?

Did he take some time when he was writing or no?

No.

So for me it was a non negotiable.

He had to stay in school and that was always a non negotiable.

I told him my husband and I were in agreement and that that because in the motocross world, you know, a lot of these kids, they don't tend to to stay active in school or go to college or whatever.

15:04

So.

Right.

We told him, you know, this is your dream, we're going to let you chase it.

But we are still your parents.

And so there's decisions we're still going to make, and that's one of them.

So that is your, that is your Plan B is college and you can chase the stream for now.

And then we're going to get back to what's important.

15:21

You need to have a degree, even if it's just, you know, a technical school of some sort, like you need to have a passion, you need to have a degree.

And so we, he was virtual.

So at the training facility, he had a, a tutor and he would train all day and then he would do his school work at night.

15:38

And so, you know, from 6:00 AM in the morning, they were in the gym for 2-3 hours and then they were on the track all day.

And then he would do his school work and he managed to pull off, you know, always.

And then when he decided that he was ready, you know, to to start focusing more on getting ready for school, he took his Sats.

15:56

He did really well.

He's a really smart kid.

And so he had that going for him.

School just has always come pretty easy.

And he knew he wanted to go into cybersecurity and so he applied to 1 college and we said you need to have a backup.

16:11

And he goes, Nope, this is it.

I'm this is what I'm doing.

And he applied, he got in.

And so now he's a junior and studying cybersecurity in school.

So yeah.

Dang, yeah, well, that shouldn't really surprise me given what I know about you so far, Dina, because like you said, you're putting him in a stroller right away, running with you.

16:33

You've had a lot of success professionally too, which we'll talk about, and then and then your daughter too, playing a sport in in college.

How did she find volleyball?

She started playing volleyball at the age of 12.

So we did a little bit of, you know, we play all the sports, soccer.

16:51

She did all of it, but we kind of unlike, I think what a lot of parents do now, we told her you need to hone in on something because even though having multiple sports conditioning is good, we didn't also want her to be stressed out of playing three sports and club and going here and going there.

17:11

And so we told her, you know, you really need to focus on if you want to play sports, you need to find one and pick it.

And now you're at the age where that needs to be what you do.

And so she she focused in on volleyball.

She loved volleyball.

It was, there was just something about that sport for her that motivated her to want to go and practice, whereas the other ones, it was almost like pulling her to get her to go.

17:36

And so some of the other sports just kind of went by the wayside, but volleyball never did.

And so she started out playing court and she played court in middle school and into high school.

And then she faced some pretty tough health challenges her freshman year of of high school and had to walk away completely.

17:54

And we were told that she probably would not play sports any further.

And so her sophomore and her junior year, she also became virtual in school.

When we moved back to Florida, the program that we had my son in, he actually was excelling so well and he was more prepared for college than we expected him to be.

18:16

So we knew it was a good program.

She wanted to be virtual mostly because of her health issues.

She struggled to be able to finish a full day in school physically because she was exhausted.

So we put her virtual.

And then her senior year, we have something in Florida called the Tim Tebow Rule, which allows homeschooled and virtual schooled students to play for their local district.

18:38

And so she went to the coach.

We live near the beach.

And so she was always still kind of playing a little bit, but it was just recreationally.

And sand had become her passion more so than indoor when she stepped away from volleyball.

18:55

So she went to the coach at the high school and just said, you know, you don't know me.

I'm I want to try out here.

I am.

She tried out and she ended up making the top team and her senior year walked away as the MVP on the team.

So that just set her up for being able to, you know, go to college.

19:12

And she said, this is, you know, mom, this is what I want to do.

I want to play beach volleyball in college.

And so just like my son, she, you know, my kids amazed me.

I, I, I, I think I learned more from them than they learned from me because both of them, they just set their mind to something and they do it.

They just go after it.

And I'm, I'm super proud of, of both of them.

19:30

I'm very lucky to have them as as my children so.

Wow.

Yeah, Well, I'm so glad that she was able to get through her health issues and play again because that can be, I mean, especially at her the age she was in high school.

Gosh, that's devastating.

So that's really amazing.

19:46

But yeah, again, I feel like coming back to what I know about you, Dina, they've got this, you know, resilience from their mom.

Well, thank you.

So so you started running with them in a stroller.

Were you training?

Did you do like races and stuff or was it just really truly for?

20:02

Mental health, you would just kind of go out and go for a run.

What did?

That look like, yeah, it started out that way.

It started out just mental health.

You know, it was, it was the time in the morning.

And then as they got a little bit older and went into kindergarten and preschool, I suddenly had this newfound time on my hands.

And I it felt like this huge weight had been lifted too, because I didn't have a stroller anymore.

20:23

And so I was actually faster than I thought I was because I wasn't pushing a stroller.

I didn't realize how well that conditioned me.

And so I signed up for my first 5K and honestly, the rest is history.

After I did my first five, Ki was hooked.

20:39

And again, dragging them to all these races.

You know, I remember the early mornings of, you know, as they got older, we don't want to go, you know, please, mom, don't make us go.

I'm like, no, you're going to cheer mom on.

Like I need my cheering squad at the finish line.

SO15K turned into multiples and then 10 KS and then halves and then holes.

20:59

And then about 10 years ago, I started running ultra distance.

Half marathons are my sweet spot.

I love 1/2 marathon because to me, and I think a lot of runners probably feel this way, you can still enjoy 1/2 marathon.

There's so much activity around 1/2 marathon, but it's you can run it, you can finish it and still have your day and not feel like you're wrecked.

21:21

But the ultras for me became really important in my life because I just felt like at the end of an ultra, there's just a different feeling of accomplishment that I've not experienced in a lot of other things in my life because it is such a challenging, it's challenging mentally, it's challenging physically.

21:44

And to be able to endure those kind of distances and see it to the end.

You do think, what is wrong with me?

I'm literally crazy.

Why am I doing this?

But when you cross that finish line, there's just a sense of accomplishment that that I've never had with anything else.

21:59

I've done 2 triathlons as well, and those two were pretty grueling.

Because I hate swimming.

Absolutely hate swimming.

Yeah, damn it, Dina, I, I've never done an ultra and the more ultra runners I talked to, God, I got a so I just so you know, I, I also find the half marathon probably to be my favorite distance.

22:18

I've done 61 of them.

Oh my gosh, I've done.

And then I've done 8 full marathons so, and then I, I don't know how many 5K's and 10K's, but it's been mostly halves in the community I live in around Indianapolis that we just have a lot of races.

22:35

And so like every year I would just kind of sign up for all of them.

And you know, halves are to your point, pretty doable, especially before kids.

And I now have I have two children myself.

They're both girls and one is 7 and the other is almost 4.

22:50

So I'm still, I'm out of the stroller running, but definitely still in the thick of it with having little kids.

But I certainly relate to the idea of having your kids watch you do all of that.

Like I can tell that they watch and they see and, you know, when I work out in our in our basement, you know, they'll want to come, you know, work out with me.

23:10

And I just love that.

So I can't wait to see what they enjoy doing as they grow.

I certainly, I would love if they would run, but you know, we'll see.

Yeah, good for you for doing that.

Because I think one of the things that I didn't realize at the time that I was dragging them along that I realize now is they saw the wins and the losses, you know, and I think that's so important.

23:32

I feel like we live in this world now where we just want everything to be perfect and we want everyone to think we have it all together, which is contributes to our mental health issue that we have in this country.

And so my kids saw the hard and they saw the happy, but they also saw how hard I worked for the happy.

23:51

And so I think they didn't just see the end, you know, they saw all the things that happened in between.

And I, I just, I don't know, I just think that's really important because they need to understand it's not going to be easy when you want something.

If it's easy, it's probably not worth having because then you won't appreciate it.

24:09

So that was part of my thought process anyway.

I don't have this whole pairing thing figured out, but.

Yeah, if you find somebody who does, like, let me know.

Like.

Yeah, exactly.

You are those.

People that can say that they have it figured out because certainly I'm just kind of learning as I, I go and, yeah, trying to do the, the best that I can to show them what hard work looks like to show them.

24:31

Yeah, but you can't just have everything handed to you.

I mean, we live, I live in a bubble of suburbia.

That's a great place to be.

And it's at times I feel like it's doing them a disservice at times because you're like, this isn't really how the world works, so.

I agree.

24:46

We work so hard for that to be for them until they get to an older age and we realize, Oh my gosh, did I screw them up for doing that because they don't understand the real world.

Yeah.

Yeah, but clearly you did something right so.

Well, thanks.

Absolutely so.

For today, anyway.

For today anyway.

25:02

Gosh, so you started getting into these races.

I would love to talk perhaps about some of those experiences, just some of you like your first marathon and some of the races that you've done.

And then the picture you sent me was a Ragnar, which I just did my first one last year, so.

Oh cool, where did you?

25:19

Do that one we did Rd.

Michigan.

OK.

Was the one that you've done or multiple?

Are they in Florida that you've done or?

No, I did.

One in California and one in Hawaii.

Hawaii, yeah, OK, yeah, that was see, we need to talk about some of your adventures when it.

25:34

Comes to yeah that was absolutely beautiful That was probably hands down one of my favorite races because we across all you know we had the heat and the humidity in Hilo.

We were on the Big Island crossed over, you know, Mauna Kea into the mountains where it was freezing and, you know snowing and then down onto the volcano side.

25:53

And so we crossed all climates obviously running and being dressed and prepared it was it was grueling but but it was fun.

I enjoyed it and I was one of the night runners.

I'm, I don't know why it is I'm always the night runner when I do these things.

I don't know why I get stuck running from sundown to up.

26:11

Like, I don't understand that.

But yeah.

But yeah, it was it was really neat.

So that one was fun.

One of the triathlons I did was extremely memorable for me because we were living in California and I had in my previous life before kids, I used to scuba dive and I'd had a an encounter with a shark.

26:31

And at that point when that happened, I just swore I'd never get in the ocean again.

Like, it terrified me.

I didn't ever want to, you know, even put my toe in the water.

And so I, I actually signed up for that triathlon because I knew I was going to have to train in the Pacific, which was even more grueling than just getting in the ocean.

26:49

But that was going to be a hurdle.

You know, I knew I was going to have to overcome.

And so that was a huge challenge because I had a, a coach that we get on his surfboard.

And so I here I am putting on my wet suit and my husband used to say he's like, you look like a baby seal.

27:06

I'm like, great.

Thanks.

Thanks for the encouragement.

So the whole time I'm swimming, yeah, I'm thinking great whites, baby seals, like I'm way down the bottom of the food chain here.

Yeah, that, but yeah, and, and then he's he's next to me on a on a surfboard paddling.

27:22

So we've got all the makings of a Jaws movie, you know, as I'm training.

But yeah, so that one was quite momentous just because getting through the training in and of itself was a challenge.

And it was a reverse try.

So we swam, biked, ran, biked, swam, ran.

27:39

So it was like, yeah, it was reversed.

So it was crazy, but I did it.

It took me like a week to get warm after that.

And then I think honestly, this is going to sound crazy.

So I've done the the Key West Bridge run, which was one of my ultras.

That was super fun.

27:54

Absolutely love that one.

Even though your, your view is pretty much the same for, you know, hours on end.

But that was really fun.

And then this is going to sound crazy, but I do this.

I do this same run every single year on Thanksgiving Day.

It's a 10K.

28:10

It's not a half, It's not a, you know, everyone does their Turkey trots.

But this run for me is just one of those things that rain or shine, you know, hot or cold, doesn't matter unless it's lightning.

I'm in the run and the whole family comes and cheers me on.

28:27

No one will run it with me.

Still to this day, nobody runs it with me.

And this year I told my kids, I said when I'm 80 and I'm in a wheelchair, one of you are going to have to step it up and push me because we're still going to do the run.

But it's I obviously am not going to be running it.

So.

Wow.

28:43

So yeah.

OK, I'm still like, I'm sorry, but I'm still kind of stuck on the shark encounter because because I like had to process that for a couple of seconds because I'm also a scuba diver.

I don't think I've I have it's been a while since I've it's probably been since before kids, if I really think about it.

29:01

What do you what do you mean shark encounter?

Like it was getting aggressive, like coming towards you like.

I've no, we were, it was a group of us and we were diving and we were actually in California and I was this, we weren't living there.

I was on a trip there and I was with a group and we were all diving and the dive master was even down with us and the dive master gave us like a, a signal thumb, you know, to go up.

29:25

And myself and my dive partner, we're just kind of, you know, swimming around and we're like, OK, OK, you know what?

Why are we going up?

We check our tanks, everything's fine.

Like why are we going up?

And we noticed everyone was going up.

So my dive partner starts to go up and I'm following and all of a sudden he just like turns and then he grabs me.

29:48

I, you know, you've got your goggles on you.

You can't it's hard to is hard and we're out, you know, in murky water anyway.

And so we swim.

We actually swam down and as we swam down and we kind of like stopped and we were floating and I saw like this shadow above us and it was a great white.

30:09

And so it was swimming right kind of towards the path of where we were.

So thankfully he had the wherewithal to, you know, and again, me, I would have just kept going up, but then that would have probably made us even more of a target.

And so we, you know, we eventually got in the boat and I went apparently went into shock after we got in the boat because the last thing I vividly remember was taking off my gear.

30:33

And then things were very blurry for me at that point until we were on land.

And all I remember was I just said, I'm never doing this again.

Like I'm never diving and I'm never getting in the water ever, ever again.

And I didn't, I didn't get in the water again until I trained for that triathlon.

30:51

So.

That is insane.

Yeah, well, and for those of you who might not who are listening or have never gone scuba diving, you can't just like, swim to the surface either.

Like, you can't go shooting up really fast because the pressure.

Yeah.

So even like the people who are like going up, like you have to go slow.

31:07

Like I just can't even imagine like going up and then seeing the shark, like beneath you.

Yeah.

I mean, anywhere.

That's.

That's nuts.

Yeah.

And then you're.

Like that kind of shark because you just don't know.

I mean, you know, you don't, you don't know what they're gonna.

They're very unpredictable.

And so, and then of course, if you're sitting on the, at the top of the water, you're, you're even more of a risk because you know, they, they, they swim.

31:31

I mean, great white says it's one of the things that I was training for the triathlon, which I could have probably just done without this piece of information.

But my trainer that was helping me, he said, you know, the, he was joking, but he said the good news is, is if it's a great white, you'll never know it's coming.

31:48

I'm like, what do you mean, you guys?

Well, because they are, they're so deep and they target their prey.

But by the time you realize, you know, and I'm like, thanks.

That's yeah, that's what I need to think about while I'm out here.

32:03

Perfect.

That was really helpful, Sir.

Just trying to tread water in my suit that makes you look like a baby seal, so yeah.

Gosh, talk about facing your your fear.

Well, and then we'll, I mean, I want to talk a little bit more about some of your running adventures and then we'll talk about kind of facing your fear again, really with running.

32:23

But so I just can't believe that that's insane.

So what other kinds of races have you done?

Any of the major marathons or anything abroad?

So nothing abroad.

So I would love.

I mean, that's one of those things that's always eluded me, mostly just because of where I was in life with my family.

32:40

I've done the Disney's OK, not done the Boston, done the Chicago, done the LA mostly all US based.

The Disney's I've done multiple times.

Love the Disney races, the the Disney marathons.

Those are super fun to me.

And then the iron.

I did the Ironman as a triathlon.

32:56

Yeah, the one in Austin, so.

OK amazing.

I've yet to do a Disney race.

I'm so intrigued by it.

They also have gotten so much even more popular now that I feel like it's almost harder to do those than even the world majors because.

Yeah, because.

You got to know exactly how to get in.

33:11

Yeah, I think it's like a lottery to get in.

And I've done a ton of the Rock'n'roll races.

Those are by far my favorite that in the Disney just because it's so interactive that you kind of forget that you feel like you're dying and you just go, you know, the music and the people and the energy.

33:27

And so I've done a lot of the rock'n'roll races.

But yeah, I still think probably from a favorite perspective is, is the Disney just because of the activity and it just kind of takes your mind off things.

So my first race of this year is going to be Rock'n'roll Las Vegas.

Oh nice.

33:44

So it's they have 1/2 only It used to be, I think they used to have a full, but now it's a half and my dad and I have done it.

This will be my third time, and it'll be his, I don't know, handful or so.

And yeah, running the Strip at night is pretty cool.

34:00

That's so awesome.

So, yeah, if you haven't done that one, that'd be a that's a fun one.

Maybe you could convince your son now that he's going to be 21, to come to Vegas to run.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's one thing.

My kids, neither one of them have ever been runners, although my son when he was younger, we used to, he used to love to run with me in the rain only because we jump in the water puddles.

34:20

And that was like the thrill of the he's are we going to jump in?

And this he was like 6 or 7 and he's like, are we going to jump in water puddles?

I said, if you go with me, I promise we'll jump in water puddles.

That's what we used to do is just find all the water puddles and jump in as many of them.

This week, that's the way I could get him to run.

34:37

Yeah, yes, yeah, I know.

Now my 7 year old is really much better on a bike.

We can do a bike run, which I really love and I'm so excited.

We've only done them I think in Florida.

No, we did one in Indiana so far.

But I'm excited for this is to be warm again here so we can start doing that more.

34:53

Yeah, that's so cool.

Yeah, it's nice to figure out a way to get them to come for sure.

And so outside of even what you do now, are you still in medical device sales?

No.

In that world, no.

Yeah, mostly just running mate.

OK, not just so amazing, but but a lot of your career was in medical device.

35:14

Is that fair?

Was that a majority of of what, 20 years?

Yeah, 20 years in Med device is, is what I did and it was, I did take 10.

I took some time off.

So 20 years actively in Med device, 10 years I stayed home with my kids, which I wouldn't trade for the world.

35:29

It was honestly the best thing I ever did.

At first I was bored out of my mind.

I'm coming out of the operating room and having like that, just high stress, high pressure all the time.

And then I'm sitting here watching my kids play and I thought, whoa, what have I done?

But it didn't hate me long to adjust, but that I did that.

35:46

And then I've owned three other businesses besides Running Mate.

So I had a brick and mortar children's boutique actually in Georgia, in Madison, GA, which was right outside of Athens, which was where we lived.

I've done online CPG.

36:02

And so I had that business for a couple of years.

And then the last business I had prior to the exit and then there was a few years between that and running mate was a wholesale to retail manufacturing business.

So I've kind of done a little bit of everything, but never tech.

36:21

So tech this.

Is new for me with tech Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What was the CPG?

What what did you sell?

What type of product?

It was actually a candle company.

Candle company.

So one of the things in all the businesses I've ever owned, I've always had them out of need.

Not just my need, but a need that wasn't fit in where I lived or in my market.

36:40

So for example, the Children's Boutique, Madison's a really small town, but it's very touristy town of beautiful old historic.

It's the only town that Sherman didn't burn on his March to the sea during the war.

And so it's this beautiful historic town, lot of really pretty buildings and people come through there a lot.

36:58

But we were pretty far from Atlanta and pretty far from Augusta.

We were kind of in that middle Dead Space.

And so to buy nice clothes for my kids, I'd have to go all the way into Atlanta, which was like 2 hours.

So I decided I asked a lot of my girlfriends in town and I said, look, if we had a store like that, would you guys shop?

37:20

And they're absolutely, you know, and this is what we need.

And so obviously, Southern women love to put their kids in smoking.

And so smoking was one of my staples confirmation gowns, you know, just anything really unique.

But it was very high end.

So we carried a lot of brands.

37:37

It was, it was a children's boutique.

So I wasn't competing with, you know, the cute stuff at Target or, you know, but it was a level.

But then we did carry some lower end stuff as well where kids could, they could just come in and you know, get some cute little things for their kids to play in.

37:53

But it wasn't like bubble suits and you know, stuff like that.

And we monogrammed and then we also got into carrying like some furniture, some bassinets and things that were again, not something you could.

And back then we didn't have really online service, you know, like we do now.

38:09

So right, people could actually come in and shop.

And we were right next to a coffee shop, which was really cool because you know, people would women would come, they drop their kids at school and go get their coffee and come do some shopping.

So, but so I had that.

And then the second business was a design service and again, out of need, there was just nothing where we were and online was really picking up and I was spending more time purchasing online than I was in store.

38:34

I didn't have the time to shop.

And so I couldn't find what I needed or what I wanted.

And I was like, I'd have to go here for this and go here for that.

And so I kind of pulled resources together and was able to purchase wholesale and sell, you know, retail in that capacity.

38:50

And then the candle business was actually always kind of a passion.

I've, I'm, I'm a closet candle person.

I love candles.

You come in my house, there's always a candle burning.

But what I realized was that I was always buying, and I won't say the brand, but I was always buying the paraffin candles that smell really, really good, but couldn't figure out why everybody in the house was always sick.

39:13

And so after a lot of research and having some testing done on the quality there in our home, we realized the paraffin, which is plastic, even though they smell good, it was contributing to bad air quality in our house and.

So out of here.

I started researching alternatives in soy and coconut were some of the alternatives.

39:34

So then I tried I felt like 1000 soy candles, none of which held their scent.

They smell good in the store, but then I'd take them home and burn them and they didn't smell good.

So I realized there was this big problem in soy of being able to have good cold throw and hot throw to where it smelled good when it was just sitting there, but then it continued to smell good when you were burning it and I couldn't find it.

39:58

So I created it and then we basically we just sold mostly to boutiques and retail.

So we didn't have a storefront, but we did end up with a manufacturing location.

And then we would sell to stores that would stock our product, which was really great because then I didn't have to have a storefront and worry about all the the problems that I think retail brick and mortar face today with with the online competitive piece.

40:26

So yeah, that was a lot.

That is a lot that's insane.

I mean, geez Dina quick reminder this podcast is also brought to you by athlete bouquets.

Celebrate finish lines and milestones of the people you love with runner gifts from athletebouquets.com.

40:46

OK and then and then you find yourself now intact like you've said.

So let's talk about the story behind running mate.

And I find this insane that you not only have been assaulted once while running, but twice, which is just, yeah, it is very madding.

41:04

I personally have never been assaulted while running, but certainly every woman has that same feeling and fear has experienced moments like that on runs.

Take us through your experience.

Yeah.

I mean, I think that it started out when even with my kids in a stroller, you know, I have the, all the unwarranted stuff, the horn honks and the cat calls and, you know, the things we face.

41:29

I mean, it is, it shouldn't be OK.

I'm not saying it is OK, but harassment, I mean, the statistics are pretty high. 60% of women report being harassed.

And that's just the number of women who report it because a lot of women don't report it because our threshold for harassment looks different for different women.

41:46

So, you know, I started realizing very early on that this was happening and I just kind of would ignore it.

You know, I would go on my way because then, you know, what was the alternative?

Stop running.

And that wasn't an option for me.

42:02

And so it became part of the norm.

I hate to say that, but it became part of the norm.

And then in 2010, I took off for a run.

And what was different about this is that I do typically run in the dark.

42:17

I mean, if I'm going to get an hour and 45 to two hours worth of running, which is, is normally what it takes for me to do the distance that I do, I'm going early in the morning.

And that way I can still be back in time for work or whatever, you know, it might be.

This one was different because it was not early in the morning.

42:34

I had taken my kids to school, my husband was at work.

It was daylight and it was a crowded area and it was about a mile from my house, so I knew the area.

This is one of the things I talked to women about with Running Mate is when women say, oh, I'm safe where I live.

42:49

I wouldn't need something like this where I live.

But the statistics are really high that more women are actually assaulted close to where they live because of our situational awareness.

And we let our guard down because we feel safe.

We are on heightened alert when we travel somewhere that we don't know.

43:07

Not to say it doesn't happen, but we just have a different level of awareness when we're in unfamiliar area.

So anyway, that was a mile from my house.

I I was assaulted and I got away and I went home.

And I remember just thinking that didn't just happen.

43:26

No one helped me.

I, you know, I don't know why.

You know, this was many years ago, before cell phones were prevalent, but, you know, people had some, but it wasn't, you know, everyone with a cell phone, but there were enough.

So yeah, I went home.

I chose not to report, which, you know, I get asked the question a lot.

43:45

Why?

You know, the first thing that come to people's minds is I would call the police.

And I was still processing everything that had happened.

And so I didn't call the police.

And then next thing I know, I've showered, I've put clothes on and I'm like, OK, that didn't really just happen, you know, like, did that really happen?

44:03

What?

And so I'm still, I'm in shock.

I'm processing everything.

And then it's time for me to pick my kids up from school, you know, And so then it's OK, let's just pretend like that didn't happen.

So then hours go by.

My husband comes home from work.

I didn't even tell him what had happened.

And so I had decided at that point I was just going to deal with it and work through it.

44:22

And three days later, it was late at night.

My husband was going to fly the red eye.

He traveled for work and he was going to take the red eye.

And so he was packing and our doorbell rang.

And I went downstairs to answer the door.

And when I opened the door, this man was standing there in my doorway.

44:38

And so I screamed.

My husband came running downstairs, you know, obviously.

And the man took off.

Obviously he's, he's like, why are you screaming and what's what's going on?

Somebody rang our doorbell.

And so then that's when I, I told him what had happened.

We called the police.

44:54

The police showed up.

They found him hiding in my backyard.

He was arrested for trespassing.

But because I never reported that was all that he was arrested for.

I did not know he was released, but he was released a few days later and I realized he was released when I saw him again.

45:11

And so I became, the statistic is 21%.

I became part of the 21% statistic that actually stopped the activity.

So I quit running and I quit running for quite some time.

I did have to get help to work through it because I was projecting and didn't even realize.

45:28

I think trauma appears in so many different ways, but like I was projecting on my kids.

I didn't want to take him to school.

I was afraid something was going to happen, just wasn't healthy and so I needed to get help.

And so I got help to work through the trauma and we ended up moving sometime.

45:46

It was a little bit of time, but we ended up moving and it wasn't for that reason.

But once we moved, then I started back running again and I felt safe and I felt, I felt more empowered than ever because I felt like, you know, I had gone through this and I'm back running.

46:01

And my, my love for running deepened at that point because I then realized I had control and I, I felt so empowered.

And so that adrenaline or that endorphin that we all get from running, it became different for me.

46:17

It wasn't an obsession.

It was just this like I'm, I was back doing it.

And it felt so good to be able to get back to doing something that I love that someone had taken away from me.

And so, yeah, I got back to running.

And then many years passed and I had a second incident.

46:34

The second incident was not as as significant as the first incident.

And it with the second incident, I was determined, but it wasn't going to take me down.

I did report that one and I kept running.

And so, you know, I have done all the things I've taken self-defense, you know, and even that is a challenge because depending on who you learn from, there's so many different types of self-defense.

46:59

And so we now at Running Mate, one of the things we do is we educate women, We go around to different events and we educate women through the Female Runner Safety Summit on the importance of if you're going to do self-defense and if you're going to carry personal protection, make sure you know how to use it, when to use it and what to do.

47:17

And will you use it, whether that is your self-defense or your personal protection.

Don't wait till you need it.

And if you're going to take self-defense, you've got to constantly be working on those skills because if when you need them, 50% of what you learned is going to go out the window when you're in fight or flight.

47:34

So so yeah, that.

So that's kind of where I came to and where running mate came from was through both of my assaults.

And gosh, the first one is in the daytime and people like people had to have heard it.

Like do people witness or hear and they.

Just there were people standing around.

47:50

Yeah, yeah.

And this was 2010.

So society is so much different, in my opinion, worse than it was then.

And I feel like social media has brought a lot of that on.

But yeah, this was in a time when we felt safer and we felt people would help, you know?

48:11

And you just, you always think someone's going to help.

But I think that's the number one thing I tell women.

Someone may but just be tell my kids this to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Yep.

And that's that's what you have to do in life.

Yeah, I've, I've never, I've never been assaulted on a run.

48:30

But there was a time I still remember so vividly this this guy's face, like where I used to run with my girlfriends before kids, like at 5:00 in the morning on this trail in Indianapolis called the Monon.

And I will never forget there were three of us running together even.

But we encountered this guy who was clearly not mentally, I mean, just you could tell he was either on drugs or just not mentally there.

48:52

And I don't think we'd ever run faster in our lives.

But who knows?

Like what would have happened.

But just, I think everybody's had either an encounter or like just obviously the cat calls are just almost something like you said, you just kind of even get used to it and brush it off, which is so sad in and of itself.

49:11

Yeah, gosh.

And he shows up at your house.

Man, I'm just, I'm so sorry that you've gone through that.

Well, thank you.

I appreciate it.

I mean, I, you know, I know now I didn't know at the time, but I know now that it happened.

It's unfortunate that it happened, but my purpose in life is so much deeper than what that then that incident.

49:33

And my purpose is to make sure that I'm helping women where it doesn't happen to them.

And and that's, you know, I did again, did I did not set out in life to be a tech founder and create an app and do all the things because it is truly the hardest thing I've ever done.

49:49

I mean, this, you know, take being a mom, being a wife, all the jobs, all the companies, like this is one of the hardest things I've ever done because I don't have experience in in the space.

But this idea came to me for a reason and it came and then I ignored it.

50:08

And then it came again, but a little bit stronger.

And I kept ignoring it because I'm like, no, really, this isn't what I'm supposed to do.

And then the third time it it hit me, it hit me like a, a wall.

And I realized I have no idea what this looks like.

I have no idea how we're going to get there.

50:24

But clearly this is something I'm supposed to be doing.

And so I think that I try to look at the bad that happened and find the good and that good is that I am given the skill set to be able.

50:40

I, I feel like all of my businesses and my jobs have been a dress rehearsal to, to this because if I would have been given this opportunity to create this app 10 years ago, I would have quit because it's hard.

And I would have realized is helping other people really what I want to do or do?

50:57

I just want to stay in my own world, you know, and, and help myself, which unfortunately is the mindset of a lot of people.

But yeah, I'm in a place in my life now to where it came when it needed to and those things happened to me so that I could be doing what I'm doing today and genuinely just try to help people.

51:16

And I may or may not ever know how it helps people or who it helps.

And that's OK too, you know, as long as it helps one person, then that's literally what keeps me going through the times when I just won't throw my hands up in the air and go.

It shouldn't be this hard.

Yeah, man, Well, I can't remember if we were recording or not before when I was talking about tech running in my family.

51:37

Like my parents had a software business.

And that's really how I know Margaret, who introduced us was.

I've been in the software startup world for a lot of my career before I made a pivot.

And yeah, it's so freaking hard and mobile and the app world, that was actually my most recent job at a startup was in the mobile space.

51:57

And it was like, yeah, it's just really, really, really hard.

So tell people first of all, like what Running mate is.

It's so it's such a brilliant idea and such sadly, that it's a necessity.

But I also think what an amazing way to to like build relationships potentially to with with people and then talk about how the heck you got it started from the tech side.

52:19

Yeah.

So running mate is we're a real time on demand app and we match verified safe mates with runners when the runner's ready to go.

So the most basic way to think of it is Uber for runners.

And that was that third time that it came to my brain and I could not, I hit the wall that I was talking about.

52:36

I was in an Uber and I thought, hang on, our whole life, our parents told us, don't get in the car with strangers.

And not only do we do it, but we pay them to take us somewhere.

And I'm thinking, why is there something like this for runners?

I mean, from a safety perspective, to me, it was a no brainer.

52:52

And so that's where I've kind of started thinking of, OK, what is this going to look like?

How are we going to create this?

We pay our mates.

So if you think of Uber, you have the driver and the rider.

So our mate would be equivalent to the driver and the runner would be equivalent to the rider.

53:07

And you can cross pollinate on our platform.

Meaning like where I live, I'm a mate because I know the area.

But when I travel, so if I go to Atlanta or New York or somewhere that I don't know, I then become the runner because and then I'm paying someone.

We do pay our mates.

53:24

So mates make a flat rate off of each run.

We are a pay per use model.

Currently we're working on some strategies with corporate partnerships to where we can potentially make the app free for everybody.

Because that's ultimately my goal is that everyone should be able to have access to this.

53:39

And so, you know, if we can make those partnerships viable, then we could still pay the mates, which when we surveyed our beta users, 78% said if you do away with that piece, we probably wouldn't be as motivated to join, even though $10 per run is not going to pay your rent.

53:57

But it's just something to motivate people, you know, to get out of bed.

So we background check everybody on the platform.

So whether you're a mate or a runner, you have to be background checked.

We started out only background checking mates.

And then I realized, hang on a minute, if I'm a mate, what's to stop someone from posing as a runner and assaulting me?

54:17

So we then set ourselves up to where everyone is background check.

So in order to even be able to complete your profile on our platform, you have to have a background check.

We're partnered with Checker, which is the world's largest background check provider.

So they do all the background checks for us or with us, we're integrated with them.

54:35

And then once you pass the background check and set your banking up, you're good to go.

So you can open the app.

If I'm in, you know, again, say New York, it's 5:00 in the morning and I want to go for a run.

I can look on the app, I can see what mates are available.

And what's really cool about what we did is that with each run, the the runner creates their pace, their distance and whether or not they want to wear headphones, which when they indicate that they want to wear headphones, that trigger triggers the mate that they probably aren't going to want to talk.

55:04

They just want you there for protection or so that they're not by themselves.

And so that's always controlled by the runner.

And then you get to choose the mate that you run with.

So if you create that run, you can, you'll see a list of mates that are available and you can then read their profiles.

55:21

And so we encourage our users when they come on the platform, build your profile out.

We ask a lot of questions like what races have you done?

What's your favorite race?

What's your PR?

Do you like to sightsee?

So these are all important questions so that if I'm looking to run with somebody, I'm more liable maybe to choose somebody that if I'm training for a race, maybe I want a running coach and I can get some, you know, tips from them.

55:44

So you actually there's that community and that that community building kind of almost like matchmaking piece that goes along with it is that you have control over who you run with.

You may want to run with a man today and a female tomorrow, like you have control over that every single time.

56:01

And then the mate comes to you, you go for a run and we bread crumb so you'll see where you are on the map.

And then when the run is complete, it's it's ended and money never physically changes hands.

It's a lot like Uber.

Your credit card's on file and the mate gets gets paid.

56:17

Wow.

I mean, all I can think as a technology person is how expensive that is to build.

Yeah, yeah.

We're A2 channel market, so yeah.

Right.

I mean, not even just like, yeah, the real time aspect of it, the location data aspect of it, like a lot of that so crazy difficult, I'm sure.

56:37

So you can get it, Yeah.

I mean, you understand the challenges.

Yeah, I've never had to like put up the cash to build it though, man.

So that's just, I mean, that's incredible.

How many cities do you have today?

So we are currently in six cities active, meaning so we consider a city active when we have we have an algorithm and that algorithm is 75 mates.

57:00

And so we like to have 75 mates in a market before we consider a city active.

We we were controlling that launch, which is why we we have the six we launched in April of last year and we were launching in cities where we had strong run club partnerships and the ability to bring those mates on.

57:19

And then we were going to launch strategically in other cities where it would make sense, like Chicago or New York or LA, where there's, you know, high crime rates and a lot of travelers because our target market is women who travel.

Even though anyone can use this anytime because of the price point, which is $25, our target market is really women who travel.

57:38

And we see you about three to four times a month that women would use the platform at that price point.

And so it only made sense to go to cities where women are traveling.

What we didn't anticipate is that as we were launching and we were forming these partnerships, people were coming to us and saying, we really want you here, we really want you here, we really want you here.

57:59

And so at that point we had to figure out, OK, what is our strategy and do we want to go where we think we need to be or do we want to go where the customer's asking us to go, which is what any smart business person would do.

And so we decided that we would start creating this affiliate program where if it's a market where we can get a lot of pull, it makes sense for us to go there.

58:21

So for example, Charleston, SC, it's a beautiful city.

It's a pretty safe city, you know, give or take and some some barriers on either side of within about two to three miles.

But we just have a strong request to come to Charleston.

So we're doing that in 2025, Denver, We we were launching in Denver, but then we had an opportunity in Boulder.

58:42

And so we've decided we're going to launch in Boulder, West Palm.

We would have probably not launched in West Palm for quite a while, but we partnered with a family who has a the Martinez family who has a foundation.

Wendy Martinez was murdered in Washington DC in 2018 while she was running.

58:59

So we formed a partnership with them and they have a run every year that we're actually doing next weekend.

And so we're going to we're going to launch in West Palm so that we can be present in that market.

Missouri, wow.

I mean, never on my radar, but we have a huge following in Missouri and we've got a group of people that have said, look, we, we want to be able to be mates, So what can we do?

59:21

And so now we're going to watch in Missouri.

So yeah, we've, we've just gone to some very strategic places.

But then we did actually, two weeks ago, open the app up for anyone in the United States that wants to down.

Actually anyone in the world can download.

The app OK.

But in the US, we opened up the entire U.S. market.

59:39

So anyone who wants to download the app and build their profile so that we can see what kind of organic growth we're gonna have, sure, that's and that'll also help us to determine where we need to go based on what those numbers look like.

Yeah, so that's good.

I can encourage listeners of this podcast who are in the indie area to do that if if it's something that we would want to have in this market there.

1:00:00

We definitely get a lot of conference travelers, I would say in our downtown, which is a pretty big spot for that just because the cost to get here and all that.

And so I could see this being something of a lot of value our downtown, I mean, ever since COVID.

Took a pretty big hit in terms of safety, I would say.

1:00:17

And so yeah, I, I would, I would see it being successful here.

Conferences is one of our verticals by the way, a partnership with conferences to where we offer our service and the conference actually pays us, that's smart.

And so the end user, the attendee has the ability to have mates, but they don't have to have it as an added expense to their already probably expensive trip, right?

1:00:39

Trying to travel to a conference, right?

I was just thinking that as a woman, I was like, I would just expense it like in at least when I was in more corporate America, not necessarily at my startup that I would travel for, but I would think that, yeah, you could expense that.

Or it's really what a great idea to have approach a a conference to do that.

1:00:57

Yeah.

So that that's really incredible.

What an amazing concept.

And the fact that you've gotten it to where it is already, when you dream about what this looks like or as you picture what this looks like, you know, come maybe 10 years from now, what is what does it look like to you?

1:01:13

Well, it's funny because, you know, I realized really early on in this process that investment in raising funds is, is important.

It's almost a necessity because it is so expensive.

We started the fundraising route.

And then I also realized that going down the fundraising route was keeping me from ultimately what my goal is, which honestly is building a community and keeping people safe.

1:01:39

Like those are my goals.

That goal will not change.

That North Star is not going to change for me today, tomorrow, you know, whatever it may be.

And I think for a lot of people that have tech, you know, their goal is we're going to exit for exactly a gazillion dollars and I'm going to sail off into the sunset and travel for six months.

1:01:58

For me, that's not my goal.

My goal is that this company saves women's lives, period.

Like that's all that is my goal and whatever that looks like.

And however that happens, we may have to pivot 1000 times, but we will keep that North Star and we'll stay focused on that.

1:02:15

You know, I get asked a lot.

Well, if you were a dating app, investors have actually said that if you were a dating app, we would invest in you.

I'm like, look, what people use it for is that's fine if that's what they want to do, because yes, you think about it, we're taking the hard work out.

We're background checking somebody and you both have a similar interest clearly, and you get to choose who you run with.

1:02:36

So if that's what they want to use it for, more power to them.

But that's not our goal.

That's not our focus.

And so you asked me what what I see this turning into.

I, I have a three to five year plan.

And that three to five year plan is that we have aligned ourselves with a company that finds this mission to be important to their success.

1:02:58

So whether that's a running company or a health and Wellness company like Strava or you know, another technology that sees the value in this product.

And you know, my goal is to hopefully stay on or that we have in turn taken what we now have is a mission, the Female Runner Safety Summit to another level to where I can focus on that and just really go out and educate and empower women to feel safe and to be confident.

1:03:27

And actually to educate men.

Because that's a lot of what we do with the Female Runner Safety Summit as well, is we ask for men to be involved because we can't make a change without their help.

And so they need to be a part of this process.

It doesn't just need to be women that are a part of this process.

1:03:43

Men need to be a part of it too.

And one of the things that really gets me fired up and I'll, I'll get on my soapbox for just a second, then I promise I'll get off, is 58% of runners now are women.

So we now dominate the running space and 83% of consumer dollars are spent by, guess what, women.

1:04:03

So the fact that our voice is not heard stronger when it comes to things like this really bothers me a lot.

And I want to make a difference.

I want that to be one of the things that we focus on.

And then we make a change with hell yeah.

So that's my goal.

Yeah, you talk about educating men.

1:04:19

My, my husband, this is going to make him sound like an asshole, which he is not.

But he thinks it's funny to like honk and wave at people who are running.

And I am like, that is like the furthest thing from that.

Like if it's especially if it's a female, you're making them feel unsafe, whether you realize that or not.

1:04:37

Like you're like they're, you know, they don't want that attention and so.

Yeah, he just think about it.

They just don't think about it.

And that's one of the things when we're doing these education pieces that we talk about is, you know, men will ask us a lot, what can we do?

Well, the first thing you can do is if you're coming upon a woman, let her know I'm on your left or I'm on your right.

1:04:57

That first and foremost is, is that carries so much weight with a female runner.

The other thing is, you know, we, we talk to women about when you're, we tend to let our guard down when we see another runner because we think first thing we think is, oh, it's a runner, we're safe and we let our guard down.

1:05:14

One of my incidents occurred because I let my guard down and the minute they passed me, they turned around.

So we talked a lot about that.

The statistic of that is actually very high.

And so we, we tell women, there's two things you should be looking for when you come upon a man and you're running.

1:05:31

Make eye contact whether you want to or not, because nobody wants to try to make eye contact.

And always pay attention to their body language.

I learned this from a self-defense instructor.

Their hands will tell you what their action is going to be.

So when you come upon another person that's running, you can tell a lot about what their next step is going to be if you pay attention to their hands and their body.

1:05:54

And so these are things that I never did before.

Whenever I saw another runner, I would look away or I'd look down or I'd never make eye contact.

So this is just some of the stuff that we train.

We're wearing a ponytail, you know, that's, it's, it's a grab point.

It's easy for someone to grab.

1:06:10

And so I stopped wearing ponytails years ago and now I run with a bun in my hair.

So just all these little things that we try to educate women on safer ways to to take care of themselves.

Yeah, tell me about the hands.

Like, is it clenched fists that are like the bad sign?

1:06:26

Yeah.

A clenched fist or paying attention to what's in their hand.

I read a I'm on a running forum and there was a woman who posted because I think as women, this is one of our one of the things we do we we don't want to hurt people's feelings.

We we don't want to make other people feel uncomfortable and she was she was talking about how she was on a trail and she saw two men approaching.

1:06:48

We innately, as women, are given this gift of being able to sense when things aren't right, and that's that hair on the back of the neck or that gut feeling.

And if we listened more to our gut instead of feeling like it's not OK to listen to our gut, then it would help us in our situations.

1:07:07

And so she was running towards them.

They were in regular plain clothes, very baggy.

The weather was warm and one of them was carrying something in his hand that she couldn't see, but she he had a, a towel wrapped around whatever it was.

1:07:22

So all of those are red flags, every one of them.

But she kept running towards them.

So again, that would have been the first indication.

Turn around, go the other direction.

She did a, she did actually pass them and looked over her shoulder.

1:07:38

And this was all what I was reading in this forum.

And they did, they did stop.

So she took off and she managed to get to her car.

So when I process all of those things that I was reading in this forum, I'm thinking all the things that were red flags, good for her that she was safe and she was able to outrun them and get to her car safely.

1:07:58

And then, you know, the next step would be call the police.

Some people might say, but they didn't hurt me or maybe they didn't mean anything by it.

But think about the next woman that may have been running on that trail.

So if you, if you felt uncomfortable, another woman's going to feel uncomfortable and it's worth reporting.

1:08:15

So you know, that's where I think we go wrong as women is we just don't want people.

We don't want to hurt people's feelings.

We don't want them to feel uncomfortable.

If I have to stare someone down when they're running towards me, I don't care if they're uncomfortable.

I really don't.

I used to, but I don't anymore.

Yeah, well, I'm the, I like to, I like people.

1:08:34

I like to wave.

I like to say hello, good morning.

I'm very, you know, the Hoosier hospitality, as we call it here.

Like we're very friendly.

And so when people ignore me or don't, I'm always offended.

So I'm usually the person who's like, hey, make an eye contact with whoever my best friend this is actually back to Ragnar.

1:08:50

The first Ragnar she did, she was a night time runner and it was like, I don't know, 2:00 in the morning and she's running.

I think she didn't even have her phone with her, which is I was like, how did you not?

I don't understand, but she was like running.

And all of a sudden she comes across this guy like it's in a neighborhood kind of area, but it's he's walking in the middle of the street in the middle of the night.

1:09:11

And she can kind of tell he's on his phone.

And she, her instinct was to like, be overly friendly, just to be like, you know, hello.

I'm a human, you know, good morning.

And thankfully, like, she just did that.

He ignored her and like, nothing happened at all.

But I think about that and it, that is really scary.

1:09:29

Yeah.

You know.

And they just sometimes appear and it's like, what do you do?

You know what?

What is my next step?

There's nobody around either.

And so that was, you know, big conversation for us at the Ragnar in particular was, you know, the women who are running at night.

Like we're like, OK, we didn't have service really.

1:09:46

So even find my friend on the iPhone wasn't really going to help.

Same thing with an air tag we had.

And so we just, we would just try to stop every couple of miles to make sure we still had eyes on our our runner.

But I mean, those are environments that are kind of scary when you're out in the middle of absolutely nowhere and you can't really see anything.

1:10:05

Actually, one of my team mates, I would be remiss if I didn't talk about her during this episode.

She was episode 17 of this podcast, Eileen Poor.

And she was assaulted ironically, in an Uber years ago.

And this was the Ragnar we did together was the first race that she had done since her assault.

1:10:22

And she ran in the middle of the night.

It's kind of like you and like the shark attack kind of thing too, right?

And even coming back to running after your runs, like, you know, the bravery and the resilience that both of you have is just incredible.

Oh.

Thank you.

1:10:39

Yeah.

And kudos to her because you realize that it's it, you, you have to figure out a way to get your joy back.

And you.

Yes, it can either define you or it can be a moment in time that creates something better.

1:10:57

And I think for your friend, like that's amazing because for her to be the night runner of all things after going through something like that, it's just, I mean, that shows her strength.

That's one thing I will say that on both of my assaults did not get taken away from me.

1:11:13

It did on the first one, but I found it again.

And I think that's why running is so important to me is because I'm not going to let someone take that from me again.

That is, that is my joy.

And I can either choose to to, you know, it's the choice I make every day.

And for some women that that's fine.

1:11:29

There's no judgment if women make that decision.

Me personally, it just wasn't a decision I could make because I couldn't find that same joy doing anything else, so I had to get back to.

It Yeah, Well, thank you so much for sharing your story.

And especially now you're creating a way to help keep women safe.

1:11:48

And I applaud you for also avoiding the path that would be so easy to take when investors with the money say, hey, you go do this, I'll give you this money.

And you're like, no, no, this is I'm doing this for women's safety.

I'm not doing it to make money, so thank you very much.

1:12:06

Yeah.

And you know, it's, it's frustrating because, you know, we, we want the revenue to be, you know, where we want it to be right now, today.

And then I have to step back and remember that everything that's happened up to this point with running mate has happened when it's needed to and how it's needed to.

1:12:23

And I'm a strong believer.

Again, I'm, I'm such a firm believer and I, I tell my kids this, I tell my friends this, if you are living your purpose in life, it won't be easy, but things will come when they need to.

And you just have to be patient in the, in the dark time for it to come.

1:12:40

And so that was also a decision that we, we are still kind of fundraising, but we aren't as actively fundraising because I decided we need to focus on the things that are going to get us where we need to be.

And this is a distraction for me.

We aren't going to be a Unicorn, so I need to stop pretending like we are.

1:12:59

I can't believe it's time for end of the podcast questions, but I could.

I feel like I could talk to you all day because I could go way down the nerdy route of technology.

But for people listening, they're probably like, please don't.

So two questions I ask everybody.

Your favorite running song and or mantra.

1:13:17

OK, so I couldn't think of a song because I listen to so many and my genre of music varies.

Like, it's crazy.

My kids will say, mom, do you really listen to that when you're running?

And it could be anything from Christmas music to just Snoop Dogg, like, and everything in between.

1:13:35

Like really, it's it's crazy.

But one of the things I do actually say a lot is that it doesn't matter how far you go or how fast you go, they're all still miles.

So I like try to apply that even in my life is that, you know, again, like that speed we were talking about of building a company is I just try to remember that you don't have to be the fastest all the time.

1:13:57

It's just you're still running and that's the important part.

Yeah, I didn't say this at the start, Dina, but I have a small business as well that serves runners.

I make gifts.

Yeah, I love it, Edible Arrangements, but for runners, like somebody doesn't race, you send them a gift anyway.

1:14:13

So I feel that too.

It's just some of the things that you want to happen fast, they just don't.

And a lot of things you think are going to be easy, just simply or not.

Yep.

So.

Patience and thank you for doing that because I looked at your website when Margaret shared it with me.

I'm like this is so cool.

Oh, thank you.

1:14:29

That's so.

That's so nice and it's so much fun.

So OK, so I love that mantra.

That's a good reminder.

People will I'll ask them to be on this podcast.

I'm like, well, I'm not really a runner, right?

And it's like, well, made it.

Wait a minute.

If you run, you are a runner.

It's just that's how it is.

And then second question your next finish line or milestone, what, what race or races do you have on the calendar for this year?

1:14:51

So I don't have any.

I have zero races for 2025 except for the 10K in November.

But for me, OK, this is going to sound a little crazy, but this goes host to that whole running 10 to 12 miles a day and having nothing to run for.

I get asked that a lot too.

Like what do I get asked all the time by my neighbors?

1:15:08

What are you training for?

Because you're always running.

Or they'll be like a really big race.

We host a big Iron Man near where I live.

And this is my neighbors are like, oh, you must be training for the Iron Man.

I'm like, no, I'm just running.

Just running, just training for life.

1:15:23

That's right.

So that's how I look at it.

Like I'm always prepared if one comes up that I want to do.

But right now it's, you know, I'm so focused on running mate and trying to get it built and then spending time I do travel to see my kids in school and I want to see my daughter play in her tournaments.

1:15:41

And so I'm prepared should one come up that I decide to register for, but I'm not registered for one.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah.

Will you go to any of the running trade show type of things?

We do, yeah, you do as a company tree.

The running event is always our biggest one that we attend.

1:15:58

And that's this year was last year was November, this year it's December.

We had a, we were a keynote speaker and had a guest panel and we talked all about female runner safety in March.

Well, we've actually got a ton of stuff coming up.

We've got this weekend, next weekend we've got the Wendy Martinez run, We're doing the Women's Expo in Grand Rapids, we're going to Boulder to do a women's safety Expo in partnership with Fleet Feet.

1:16:23

We will go.

We will do something.

We don't know yet what, but the Lockett's family has created a run around run Nash in Nashville and we'll likely go, even if it's just to cheer them on, we'll go do something there.

We will be at the Boston Run Show, which is March 1st and 2nd and we're doing a partnership of a shake out run with Trail Blazers, which is an all women running group.

1:16:47

And then we'll also sit on a guest panel there.

We'll probably go to the New York this year.

So yeah, we've just, we've got a lot.

That was part of our strategy session was just make sure we can stay focused on what 2025 has got in store for us.

Yeah, well, before we stop recording, I would be remiss if I didn't ask maybe for a snippet of your advice.

1:17:07

You know, given your experience.

We've talked about some of it already during this episode.

But if you could give women or just runners in general some quick advice for how they can, how they can stay safer.

Yeah.

I think again, we've talked about a little bit of it is I do recommend personal protection and that looks different for different people, whether it's a Mace, whether it's you know, I mean there are women who carry firearms.

1:17:31

I don't endorse any particular thing.

I do endorse safely products because they do A5 in one that is a killer device for women.

They're a partner of ours in the female runner safety.

Summit, I know what?

That is, but I do endorse them because it's a good product and it's a good company and they actually train women on how to properly utilize Mace.

1:17:51

So that is one tidbit is that I can't say it enough.

If you're going to carry something, make sure you know how to use it and make sure you're prepared to use it.

Because when the chips are down and you're in the situation, we had this happen at a self-defense class.

1:18:06

A woman's like, Oh yeah, I carry Mace and her Mace expired in 1999.

Not going to do you any good.

That has no power.

So if you're going to carry something, make sure, you know, make sure you know how to carry it, where to carry it, what's the proper way to carry it and that you are trained to use it because otherwise it does you no good.

1:18:25

So that's a piece of advice I give.

And then again, it's some of the, the things we take for granted, you know, being aware that ponytails, you know, are a grab point.

It's unfortunate, you know, we, we shouldn't have to change those types of things, but it's just one of those things making eye contact, looking at body language, always being aware of your surroundings.

1:18:46

And then a plug for running mate is we reduce your risk by 68% if you're running with a partner.

So whether it's running mate or someone else, you know, just find someone to go with, especially if you're in a situation where you're not sure.

So it's always better.

You're always safer in pairs.

Yes, wow.

1:19:03

Well, thank you again, Dina.

It's been so nice to meet you and get to know you and I wish you nothing but the best and I I will support you in any way that I can.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

I appreciate the opportunity to do this with you.

This was awesome.

Yeah, for sure.

And thank you to everybody who has listened and happy running.

1:19:21

If you enjoyed this Sandy Boy Productions podcast, help me grow this community, share rate review and follow me on Instagram.

I'm Ally ALOYT.

Brett.

Brett under score runs.

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